Guild Wars 2

I find it incredibly frustrating how quickly you can revive somebody in this game. Especially Guardians seem to be able to revive fallen team-mates incredibly quickly, all while being completely immune to damage and CC.

Often revives are many times faster than a stomp. If a player goes down and the revive and stomp start at the same time, the reviver will win.

This makes outnumbered fights an incredible uphill battle while giving near immortality to those in groups.

It also makes group-fights in sPvP almost entirely about stomping/reviving. You can down 3-times as many opponents. It’s all worthless if you can finish them off or can’t stop the revives.

I find this to be the single worst mechanic in GW2. It turn what is supposed to be a PvP game into something resembling a stomp/no-stomp mini-game instead of about overcoming your enemies in combat.

It also gives safety to numbers. Even more so than they already have. That just results in more zerging and more futile defense-battles because you can’t stop the attacking zerg from constantly reviving everyone.

How quickly you can revive someone?

Was much quicker in the previous game with “Flesh of My Flesh”, let alone “Resurrection Signet” or a couple other skills.

If you have an ally, and the ally stomp, you can poison the downed enemy + massive AoE damage and/or massive condi pressure.

• If the ally successfully stomps, you win.
• If the ally fails to stomp, the enemy that was reviving should now be in half-hp. Kill them.

There is also access to knockbacks and stuns to interrupt the revivers.

When soloing, with enough practice you can tell if you are able to stomp or not. Giving you the choice of making the next round easier to fight or taking the chance to stomp the downed enemy or not.

I know all that but it doesn’t change anything about how the easy revives encourage….or even reward bad play.

Stick with a Zerg and always be revived, even if you fail. Just tonight we were holding our final Keep against an overwhelming zerg. We trapped and melted them with Arrow Carts but couldn’t quite clear them out. They just constantly revived each other and eventually we couldn’t withstand anymore and lost.

Even killing them 2-3 times didn’t stop the never-ending wave of revives.

And in sPvP, if you find yourself in a 2v1 vs. a bunker and something else, you can’t kill either because the bunker can revive his team-mate faster than you could ever finish him.

Revives are just a terrible snowballing mechanic giving the upper hand to the already dominant side.

Let me translate what I understand this issue is. “A kill is a kill.”

Sounds like Dee Jay is a necro. Most other classes can stomp pretty easily. Try using a speed boon. Speed boons makes your stomps faster.

Plexxing.2978:

Sounds like Dee Jay is a necro. Most other classes can stomp pretty easily. Try using a speed boon. Speed boons makes your stomps faster.

By speed boon, I imagine you mean quickness and not swiftness.

In any case, because reviving a defeated ally is very slow, they have to have the downed mechanic that you can revive people from. If they didn’t, the game would all be about spiking a single target everytime, and it’s very possible to die with a few seconds depending on what’s thrown at you.

Compare this to a game like GW1 that didn’t have this mechanic. It was still possible to spike enemies down in this sort of fashion, but their teammates would generally have some sort of directly healing or blocking type skills that could help prevent that. Additionally, if the person did die, they could be revived with a number of skills. For instance, everyone had access to resurrection signet, which was a 3 second cast time that fully restored an ally that was dead.

In any case, it is definitely something that you need to consider when using a build. Certain builds will be able to secure stomps much more easily than others, or help prevent stomps on your allies.

If you’re having trouble not being able to finish someone off while they’re downed, you might look at investing in stability or stealth to prevent their #2 downed skill (although that doesn’t always apply depending on the profession), or see if you can manage to CC anyone who is reviving their ally. Sometimes even just doing AoE damage on the downed person is sufficient because the reviver can be in danger of being downed themselves (i.e. warrior using hundred blades on a downed enemy while they’re being revived).

Also keep in mind that if you repeatedly down someone, they will start with less and less downed health due to death penalty, and eventually just immediately dying on being downed. So they may not be able to be saved by their allies if you can continue to pressure the revived person. As such, it might sometimes be the best strategy to let the revive happen and just set up for taking the same person down again.

As for revive speed, there’s some things in the game that can enhance it (i.e. runes of mercy), but they’re not commonly desired or used by people. I’m not sure if all AoE healing/regen type abilities provide healing to downed players, but that could also speed it up (i.e. guardian’s virtue of resolve).

there should be a cool down after you revive someone.
say 10 seconds or so.

runeblade.7514:

If you have an ally, and the ally stomp, you can poison the downed enemy + massive AoE damage and/or massive condi pressure.

• If the ally successfully stomps, you win.
• If the ally fails to stomp, the enemy that was reviving should now be in half-hp. Kill them.

There is also access to knockbacks and stuns to interrupt the revivers.

When soloing, with enough practice you can tell if you are able to stomp or not. Giving you the choice of making the next round easier to fight or taking the chance to stomp the downed enemy or not.

Engies/Necro’s love revivers because of this.

The only place I have a problem with how fast reviving goes is in WvW where it just further increases the power to larger numbers (hurr durr zerg blobs). It needs a DR on how much health is added per additional reviver there imo.

I’ve seen so many people asking for a debuff when reviving and I fail to see the problem with it. It even makes sense since you should be far more vulnerable while tending to someone in the middle of a battle.

They really just need to discourage reviving allies in every situation with a debuff making revivals more tactical. Something that’ll make a bunker melt like they were balanced, a balanced class melt like they were glass, and a glass melt like they was paper(?). This will put more emphasis on reflection abilities and will allow strategy to have more of a place in out numbered situations.

Killing a downed player is just as blazing-fast. So I really don’t see the issue here. It could be argued that downed as a whole should be more significant:

• Slower to get back up (including issues with easily rallying, say, you could only tag the currently-attacked target for Rally-purposes).
• Slower to get killed (stomping is slower and players have a lot more health).
• More powerful attacks.

I don’t personally like the current revive system in PvP and WvW. I feel that multiple people reviving the same ally at once is too rewarding, and the downed system is too punishing in 1vX scenarios.

Could be that Anet wants you to always play the game with a buddy. Could be that they like the idea of nobody dying if they have multiple allies to support them.

I’d personally like it though if rezzing was limited to one person at a time, just like how stomps aren’t increased in speed by multiple people attempting it at the same time. I’d like it if rezzing was separated between PvP / WvW and PvE. I feel like the death penalty should be higher in PvP game modes, or the “heal” from rezzing should be lessened. I don’t believe rezzing in PvP should give you back half your health, which is typically more than the average heal gives.

Aegael.6938:

I feel that multiple people reviving the same ally at once is too rewarding, and the downed system is too punishing in 1vX scenarios.

It’s actually very unrewarding in some situations. If you have multiple people reviving one person, they will be sitting ducks for an enemy zerg. One downed person could end up turning into six very easily, especially if they’re under siege fire.

I also don’t feel 1vX scenarios are relevant in regards to any balancing of the mechanic. People fighting 1vX are already putting themselves into an inherently disadvantageous situation to begin with, so it makes sense if such situations are punishing to the solo person. This sort of situation is inherently unbalanced, so calling for changes to the downed mechanic due to any sort of imbalance doesn’t make sense by highlighting 1vX scenarios.

Latinkuro.9420:

there should be a cool down after you revive someone.
say 10 seconds or so.

A cooldown on what? Being able to revive again? How would that interact with being interrupted? It would also drastically reduce the value of on-revive traits that some professions have.

Monoman.2068:

I’ve seen so many people asking for a debuff when reviving and I fail to see the problem with it. It even makes sense since you should be far more vulnerable while tending to someone in the middle of a battle.

This is technically already true due to the fact that you cannot use most of your skills (some things can still be used depending on what you have), and you also cannot move or dodge. It’s not like you’re reviving the person and constantly evading damage or healing yourself (with the exception of healing signet, perhaps).

However, if they did want to change some things in regards to reviving, I think this would be a much better route to take rather than altering the fundamentals of the mechanic. It could even simply be a reduction in toughness while reviving or something.

Aegael.6938:

I’d personally like it though if rezzing was limited to one person at a time, just like how stomps aren’t increased in speed by multiple people attempting it at the same time. I’d like it if rezzing was separated between PvP / WvW and PvE. I feel like the death penalty should be higher in PvP game modes, or the “heal” from rezzing should be lessened. I don’t believe rezzing in PvP should give you back half your health, which is typically more than the average heal gives.

A stomp’s execution time isn’t enhanced by multiple people, but the chances of it succeeding are in some situations. For instance, if a warrior goes down and one person tries to stomp him, the warrior can possibly interrupt the attacker and possibly gain some time to be assisted by allies. However, if two people stomp the warrior, the warrior cannot interrupt both of them, and it is much more likely for the stomp as a whole to complete in just one attempt.

Although I don’t feel it would be a bad idea to apply some diminishing returns to revive speed per additional reviver. That way, the option to revive faster is always there, it just won’t be as fast as it is now.

In regards to the health, I think they actually did changee the amount of downed health players have in sPvP, but I can’t recall if they reverted that change or not. I think they might have.

Yamsandjams.3267:

I also don’t feel 1vX scenarios are relevant in regards to any balancing of the mechanic. People fighting 1vX are already putting themselves into an inherently disadvantageous situation to begin with, so it makes sense if such situations are punishing to the solo person. This sort of situation is inherently unbalanced, so calling for changes to the downed mechanic due to any sort of imbalance doesn’t make sense by highlighting 1vX scenarios.

1vX is extremely relevant in SPvP. Are you saying that people should automatically lose if they’re fighting multiple people? Going as far to say that “any sort of imbalance is okay” just because it’s already imbalanced is a really weird reasoning. By your logic, they could go ahead and give an instakill skill to you anytime you had an ally and your opponent didn’t. That seems properly punishing, since it was his fault anyways he decided to fight two people at once.

Aegael.6938:

Yamsandjams.3267:

I also don’t feel 1vX scenarios are relevant in regards to any balancing of the mechanic. People fighting 1vX are already putting themselves into an inherently disadvantageous situation to begin with, so it makes sense if such situations are punishing to the solo person. This sort of situation is inherently unbalanced, so calling for changes to the downed mechanic due to any sort of imbalance doesn’t make sense by highlighting 1vX scenarios.

1vX is extremely relevant in SPvP. Are you saying that people should automatically lose if they’re fighting multiple people? Going as far to say that “any sort of imbalance is okay” just because it’s already imbalanced is a really weird reasoning. By your logic, they could go ahead and give an instakill skill to you anytime you had an ally and your opponent didn’t. That seems properly punishing, since it was his fault anyways he decided to fight two people at once.

If a person is fighting a 1vX, it should be inherently difficult for the solo person. If someone has allies, they have an inherent advantage against the individual since they can help each other out. I don’t feel altering the downed state mechanic to somehow make it easier for the solo person makes a lot of sense. This can already be remedied by having allies come to assist you, or putting the same kind of pressure on the rest of the enemy team that they are putting on you (i.e. attacking their solo player with multiple people). Furthermore, if the solo person does get an enemy downed, it is still possible for them to get a stomp off. If you start the stomp on them as soon as they go down, it’s often not possible for a single ally to revive them fast enough, although this will likely necessitate the use of stability, blind, or stealth to secure the stomp.

In regards to sPvP, that situation is most commonly encountered by bunker type characters defending nodes. As such, they probably aren’t killing many people in the first place, and bunkers often just try to hold the node until allies can assist to eliminate the attackers. The options are there for both sides to use, so it’s an even playing field. I don’t really see how that would necessitate any changes to the downed state mechanic.

If a person is deliberately throwing themselves into 1vX situations (i.e. solo roaming in WvW), then such disadvantages such as enemies helping other downed enemies simply needs to be accepted and somehow managed as much as possible.

What is the current cap of # of revivers? Perhaps lowering that would help with the worst revive-spam.

Revive is fine as is. Just got have to remember to drop some poison on the downed person.

And don’t forget that if you fail and they get up, they will have some sort of debuff (Left under your HP tool) which lowers the ammount of health you start with when you get downed.
Nothing too quickly here.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

How quickly you can revive someone?

Was much quicker in the previous game with “Flesh of My Flesh”, let alone “Resurrection Signet” or a couple other skills.

Good luck with that when I’m playing ranger.

Down state in pvp, as has been described multiple times, hinders skillful play and makes it next to impossible to win while outnumbered.
It is a major problem in pvp.

I don’t really have anything to say that hasn’t been said before, and am mostly just posting to add my voice to the number of people against downstate in pvp.

it’s a classic MMO design flaw and it’s not surprising that ANet fell for it.

The issue is with negative feedback, i.e., giving the bigger sides rewards that make them more powerful, which makes them kill more and get better rewards, which makes more people play that side, which makes them kill more, which makes them more powerful etc etc while having the opposite side influenced in the exact opposite way.

How about revive times being 50% more if you outnumber a realm and 25% less if you are outnumbered?

Downed state and revive add a lot of interesting depth to the combat system but the fact that it so aggressively favors zergs seriously detracts from the game.

There are all kinds of bigger zerg favoring rules in the game, not the least downed state (AOE limit etc) that prevent smaller, better (if) groups from winning over pure facerolling numbers.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

How quickly you can revive someone?

Was much quicker in the previous game with “Flesh of My Flesh”, let alone “Resurrection Signet” or a couple other skills.

Good luck with that when I’m playing ranger.

Ranger/Rit was rather useful for that.

And currently, strangely, rangers are kind of resilient enough to heal. And if they pack “Search and Rescue” it counts twice as much. Seriously that skill is kind of underrated for ressing.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

Master of Timespace.2548:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

How quickly you can revive someone?

Was much quicker in the previous game with “Flesh of My Flesh”, let alone “Resurrection Signet” or a couple other skills.

Good luck with that when I’m playing ranger.

Ranger/Rit was rather useful for that.

And currently, strangely, rangers are kind of resilient enough to heal. And if they pack “Search and Rescue” it counts twice as much. Seriously that skill is kind of underrated for ressing.

Not really it can be very buggy (not work on an incline), the effect is very slow (when compared to casted alternative) the lower cool down that would help balance it is not in place in spvp.

I guess the whole hardly seeing it surprise factor, but…

Yamsandjams.3267:

Plexxing.2978:

Sounds like Dee Jay is a necro. Most other classes can stomp pretty easily. Try using a speed boon. Speed boons makes your stomps faster.

By speed boon, I imagine you mean quickness and not swiftness.

Actually, I mean regular speed boons. Last I knew, they increased stomp speed. Like that engie speed/skill that allows them to stomp before your downed skills even pop up.

I am guessing the OP doesn’t have a problem with being revived himself though. The problem is clearly that a situation occurred that caused the OP to lose when he felt he should have one, then cries OP on the forums immediately after. He as much stated so with his “story” in the first post. That is a huge problems on the forums. Players get selfish and demand changes based on a specific situation and skew the bigger picture. This is displayed in some of the clearly poorly thought out “such and such profession is op” threads.

If you cannot win a fight within the rules of the game, why pick your fights more intelligently, play better, or adjust your tacticts, when you can simply go on the forums and demand they change the entire game to suit your personal need. Talk about selfish.

not sure how those guardians are reviving so fast unless they got the quickness buff somehow and that’s available to all. and add the fact that if the reviver is in combat slows revive to under 50% I believe.

there’s food that gives you 100% downed health which may appear to make reviving quicker.

there could be groups that coordinate a quickness skill to stomp/revive when out in the world

even that rune set that speeds it up 10% is a novelty set.

I dunno, when my group goes out and downs people we are expecting some kind souls to revive them, and of course that’s where we put all the damage.

I think it’s because reviving scales with Healing Power and Bunker Guardians stack a lot of it. Healing abilities affect downed people too iirc.

Dee Jay.2460:

I think it’s because reviving scales with Healing Power and Bunker Guardians stack a lot of it. Healing abilities affect downed people too iirc.

Healing power has no effect on revive speed.

However, there are certain revive skills. For instance, a gaurdian can take signet of mercy to boost their healing power, which also allows them to revive downed allies instantly (although this can also be counteracted by a low health downed character being poisoned).

Plexxing.2978:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Plexxing.2978:

Sounds like Dee Jay is a necro. Most other classes can stomp pretty easily. Try using a speed boon. Speed boons makes your stomps faster.

By speed boon, I imagine you mean quickness and not swiftness.

Actually, I mean regular speed boons. Last I knew, they increased stomp speed. Like that engie speed/skill that allows them to stomp before your downed skills even pop up.

The only thing close to that is Elixir U.

Which is quickness.

I don’t thinking reviving a downed player is a bad thing. It takes risk vs reward to do so and if anything needs to be done just slap a 30second cooldown between Revving/Rallying or some sort of other limiter in PvP/WvW to stop the perceived snowball affect (except on say necromancers since coming back from the dead is there thing lol).

If anything I think the real issue is mass rallying. How is it that an entire zerg can rally off the death of 1 guy. Now that is an issue. Personally only 1 person should rally off a kill and it should be the downed person who landed the final hit. Now do this and add a 30second cooldown and I think the issue of reving/rallying could be dead and buried :P

magic fly.2041:

Down state in pvp, as has been described multiple times, hinders skillful play and makes it next to impossible to win while outnumbered.
It is a major problem in pvp.

I don’t really have anything to say that hasn’t been said before, and am mostly just posting to add my voice to the number of people against downstate in pvp.

[+1]

I’ve just skimmed the topic as a whole, so I don’t know if this has been mentioned yet …

Any change to the “revival” mechanic should be -IMHO- PvP/WvW-only, considering how much LS content seems to have become purely Zerg activity. With the amount of players rushing to complete time-limited content, plus the sheer beatdown players will eat from laggy-as-kitten boss AoE, death’s rather assured (and arguably expected) in those situations.

As for PvP/WvW, I can definitely see the argument versus Revivals. Fact is, it turns the larger-scale player-killing from a war of numeric attrition into a “do we have enough Zerglings to speed-raise?” setup. Problem there, is the game was balanced with that mechanic in mind, so besides plopping AoE/dedicating a person or two to shred revivers … well, there’s not so much to work with, now is there?

My proposal:

PvE / WvW:
After the 1st death, reviving is normal.
After the 2nd death, reviving is still normal.
After the 3rd death, reviving is no longer possible and you gotta waypoint.

The recently defeated debuff lasts for 30 minutes and it resets when you reach your 3rd and final death.

General:
Stomping speed increased (right now it’s 3 seconds, make it 2.5)

I’m aware that each reviver heals a downed (or dead) person for a percentage of their HP. But what if that amount scaled based on the # of healers?

Say a player has 50000 hp and is downed, and each player revive that person for 5000 hp on live servers right now

It could be changed so one guy heals for 4000
Two heal for 4500
Three heal for 4600
Four heal for 4750
Five and more heal for 5000

There have been many threads about the down state and rally and how bad it is but Anet thinks it makes sense to push through a larger group down 80% of them just to have them rally back up and kill you because a tag along pug decided to die.

Julie Yann.5379:

There have been many threads about the down state and rally and how bad it is but Anet thinks it makes sense to push through a larger group down 80% of them just to have them rally back up and kill you because a tag along pug decided to die.

Well the solution to that is easy. Finished off the downed enemies so they don’t rally.

I’ve seen a number of zerg commanders complain at their allies because they took the time to stomp an enemy, and then turn around and complain for hours about how some enemy rallied… just don’t make sense to me.

Every zerg should have at least a few people dedicated to stomping any enemy that gets trampled over. The sooner they’re completely defeated, the less risk there is of a rally (not to mention it rallies anyone on your side that happens to go down).

Yamsandjams.3267:

Julie Yann.5379:

There have been many threads about the down state and rally and how bad it is but Anet thinks it makes sense to push through a larger group down 80% of them just to have them rally back up and kill you because a tag along pug decided to die.

Well the solution to that is easy. Finished off the downed enemies so they don’t rally.

I’ve seen a number of zerg commanders complain at their allies because they took the time to stomp an enemy, and then turn around and complain for hours about how some enemy rallied… just don’t make sense to me.

Every zerg should have at least a few people dedicated to stomping any enemy that gets trampled over. The sooner they’re completely defeated, the less risk there is of a rally (not to mention it rallies anyone on your side that happens to go down).

Do you know what happens to people who try and stomp? They get crushed by the hammer train or melted by AoE bombs and rally everyone.

It needs to be fast or there would be no reviving.
But, it is exceptionally frustrating when someone who is being attacked can revive an ally so quickly.

Proposed: The speed at which you revive an ally decreases if you are currently taking damage OR the speed at which you revive an ally decreases based on your current health above 90-75-50 etc.

Atleast in wvw downed and spiked needs to equal waypoint period. As for downed state they just need to remove the nonsense knockback teleport mist etc… downed skills and make it so only 1 person can rally off a kill.

I do not understand, just how fast are folks reviving players? I mean, I am reading all of this, “it’s to fast” claims, but no one is posting any facts about the matter. Do you know how long it takes one player to revive a downed? Do you know how much the speed increases per player aiding in the revive? Do you know how much faster a player at 1700 healing power can revive then a player with 0 healing power?

How fast is to fast? I have yet to see a single bit of information in real time posted. How many seconds is this taking? What makes this amount of time too fast? If I were a dev I would ignore each and every one of you with extreme prejudice. Posting complaint after complaint of “its to fast” then “no its not”……all without posting a single fact of any kinds. Precisely how many seconds should it take? How many seconds is taking now? Why are you so against reviving for the enemy, when you are perfectly happy to be revived yourself?

Why should downed and spiked equal a must way point situation in WvW? I play a majority of my time in WvW and I disagree. A smart player uses this to their advantage. Either continue to let them revive and farm them for bags, or concentrate AoEs on the ones trying to revive for easier slaughter of their forces.

If they are far enough away from their spawn points that it is better to revived spikes players, then odd are, you are nearer your spawn point. In which case you have the advantage.

There are only two reasons that people would have a problem with the option to revive. One is if their force is filled with more skilled players then yours, thus they are slaughtering you in greater number then you are of them. The other is if they are fighting more intelligently then you, again slaughtering more of you, then you are of them. In either case you are going to lose the battle either way.

The thing that ruins everything and makes the game too easy is stability.

Julie Yann.5379:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Julie Yann.5379:

There have been many threads about the down state and rally and how bad it is but Anet thinks it makes sense to push through a larger group down 80% of them just to have them rally back up and kill you because a tag along pug decided to die.

Well the solution to that is easy. Finished off the downed enemies so they don’t rally.

I’ve seen a number of zerg commanders complain at their allies because they took the time to stomp an enemy, and then turn around and complain for hours about how some enemy rallied… just don’t make sense to me.

Every zerg should have at least a few people dedicated to stomping any enemy that gets trampled over. The sooner they’re completely defeated, the less risk there is of a rally (not to mention it rallies anyone on your side that happens to go down).

Do you know what happens to people who try and stomp? They get crushed by the hammer train or melted by AoE bombs and rally everyone.

So then what’s the issue? You can do the same thing to their pugs and have your guys rally.

Or the other solution is to revive whoever on your side goes down so the enemies don’t rally. If they don’t die the enemies won’t rally.

And stomping very much has a place. It’s not a good idea in every situation for the exact reasons you mentioned, but there’s plenty of times you want to go for stomps. I’ve seen so many people spend 10+ seconds DPSing and using cooldowns on a downed player when they could’ve ended it in less than half the time by stomping.

There’s also plenty of ways to secure stomps, such as invulnerabilities, stealths, stabilities, blinds, blocks, and quickness which all help reduce the risk in stomping. There’s some fights that are lost or won on the success or failure of a stomp.

There’s many ways to use the mechanic to your advantage, just try them out if you never do and you might find it actually makes your fights easier.

Yamsandjams.3267:

Julie Yann.5379:

Yamsandjams.3267:

Julie Yann.5379:

There have been many threads about the down state and rally and how bad it is but Anet thinks it makes sense to push through a larger group down 80% of them just to have them rally back up and kill you because a tag along pug decided to die.

Well the solution to that is easy. Finished off the downed enemies so they don’t rally.

I’ve seen a number of zerg commanders complain at their allies because they took the time to stomp an enemy, and then turn around and complain for hours about how some enemy rallied… just don’t make sense to me.

Every zerg should have at least a few people dedicated to stomping any enemy that gets trampled over. The sooner they’re completely defeated, the less risk there is of a rally (not to mention it rallies anyone on your side that happens to go down).

Do you know what happens to people who try and stomp? They get crushed by the hammer train or melted by AoE bombs and rally everyone.

So then what’s the issue? You can do the same thing to their pugs and have your guys rally.

Or the other solution is to revive whoever on your side goes down so the enemies don’t rally. If they don’t die the enemies won’t rally.

And stomping very much has a place. It’s not a good idea in every situation for the exact reasons you mentioned, but there’s plenty of times you want to go for stomps. I’ve seen so many people spend 10+ seconds DPSing and using cooldowns on a downed player when they could’ve ended it in less than half the time by stomping.

There’s also plenty of ways to secure stomps, such as invulnerabilities, stealths, stabilities, blinds, blocks, and quickness which all help reduce the risk in stomping. There’s some fights that are lost or won on the success or failure of a stomp.

There’s many ways to use the mechanic to your advantage, just try them out if you never do and you might find it actually makes your fights easier.

The issue is the down state. I’m not going to argue why it is bad since you clearly think it is fine and I already know how this conversation is going to go.

Yes lets complain about revival speed that doesn’t scale with healing and completely ignore how broken rally is

The problem with revives is classic.

On the one hand, it just is boring to die and have to run back again and again. It breaks up the flow of a fight and group too.

On the other hand, typically, the fact you have to port when you die is the absolute best thing for allowing small groups to take out large groups. Beat them by attrition.

I agree Silhouette, rally is wonky and revival speed should increase with healing power.
Still, you have to think about the underlying issue of the pros and cons of reviving.

Revival gives larger groups an much higher advantage and is a hard stop to assasination style gameplay. Its stuff like this that makes wvw so zergy. If anything revival speed needs to be slowed down and healing moves need to be applicable to downed players, kills two birds with one patch

Edit: make that two patches, those birds are going to go into downed state and your going to have to stomp them

I myself don’t like this down mechanic at all. I would glad if Anet would get rid of it (at least in sPvP). in PvP especially is disguised as giving more depth in game, but in reality it is nothing than a cheap mechanic that got annoying after 5 minutes of playing. This revive / stomp is not interesting at all.
If you got killed, you got killed, not something half killed.

For example it is so annoying to stomp ele.. You try to stomp it, he goes into mist, flies where he wants, lands near team mate and he revives him. It happened so many times..
For example there was a fight between me vs ele and guardian. I downed ele three times in a row, but wasn’t able to stomp it, because of mist and guardian reviving it all the time. Then of course I was down myself and no one could revive me, because I was alone.
2v1 is already an advantage and down mechanic just increases that advantage even more.

I definitely think revives are too fast in this game. It is impossible to win in most situations when I am outnumbered. Revival takes barely longer than a stomp, so all it takes is 1 CC (which for most classes can be a downed skill) for a teammate to successfully revive an ally. When I down somebody and a teammate comes to revive, if I have no stability, my only option is to try to CC the reviver (assuming I have one that is not on cd from the battle). If the reviver has stability then I have no chance. It is all a CC battle.

I think a lot of the problem stems from the fact that revival out-heals any DPS I can output by a significant margin. If I could significantly damage the ally while he is reviving, then I might be able to wear them down and eventually win. But that is not the case, so it becomes 100% a CC battle. I think that is a terrible mechanic.

Revives are fine.

[Shadow Refuge], [Battle Standard] and [Nature’s Renewal], however, are not fine.

krippler.9826:

It is impossible to win in most situations when I am outnumbered.

That’s a good thing though, is it not? If it wasn’t a difficult situation and you had no problems winning, there would be no need for team play and things would perhaps become uninteresting very quickly. Besides, many people do win in outnumbered situations. Just look at your average solo roamer video to see some ways people deal with enemies being revived.

If you’re talking in regards to an sPvP context, distracting multiple people while the rest of your team assaults the rest of the map can actually be an advantageous thing, so it’s not necessarily a bad thing that you can’t win that fight.

krippler.9826:

I think a lot of the problem stems from the fact that revival out-heals any DPS I can output by a significant margin. If I could significantly damage the ally while he is reviving, then I might be able to wear them down and eventually win. But that is not the case, so it becomes 100% a CC battle. I think that is a terrible mechanic.

The other option in this scenario is to DPS the reviver. If you can hurt them significantly, they may stop their revive attempt, or they may allow you to get in so much free damage that you down them even after they revive their ally, meaning you may be able to finish them off or force their ally to waste time reviving them.

I also consider this to be a strength for some builds. They have abilities that allow them to secure stomps more easily, giving them a situational advantage when compared to builds that don’t have these things. It’s another variable to consider when creating a build, and adds value to certain utilities or weapons (i.e. engineer flamethrower).

In general, if you start stomping the downed person immediately when they go down, you can actually beat the revive speed of a single reviver. Applying poison to the downed person also slows the speed at which the reviver revives them, so that is also a useful thing to do. Sometimes downed players don’t even bother using their downed skills, although you should always expect them to.

I don’t think they can even remove the mechanic at this point considering all the elements of the game that are keyed into it (not to mention there’d be no use for finishers anymore). However, I do think it’s worth considering altering things like revive speed, lowering the defense of revivers, or causing a short duration “revive sickness” state that leaves the freshly revived person vulnerable.

However, one of the problems with WvW is that people can rally off random creatures in the environment, which is silly. If a griffon or moa decides to wander into a fight just because they have nothing better to do, it can mean people start rallying when the mobs explode from 50 different AoE sources. This is something I think they really need to address that they simply haven’t yet.

Edited because the profanity filter is a dumdum.

Aberrant.6749:

runeblade.7514:

If you have an ally, and the ally stomp, you can poison the downed enemy + massive AoE damage and/or massive condi pressure.

• If the ally successfully stomps, you win.
• If the ally fails to stomp, the enemy that was reviving should now be in half-hp. Kill them.

There is also access to knockbacks and stuns to interrupt the revivers.

When soloing, with enough practice you can tell if you are able to stomp or not. Giving you the choice of making the next round easier to fight or taking the chance to stomp the downed enemy or not.

Engies/Necro’s love revivers because of this.

The only place I have a problem with how fast reviving goes is in WvW where it just further increases the power to larger numbers (hurr durr zerg blobs). It needs a DR on how much health is added per additional reviver there imo.

People don’t get revived in a zerg fight. They rally because the enemy dies faster.
Revives are fine IMO.