Guild Wars 2

50% chance when struck to inflict fear for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90 seconds)

Yes its on a 90 second cooldown, but I should NOT LOSE CONTROL of my character because of something I did and my enemy did NOTHING.

If this is ok, then where’s my “50% chance when struck to inflict STUN for 2 seconds.” or “50% chance when struck to inflict DAZE for 2 seconds” or “50% chance when struck to inflict KNOCKDOWN for 2 seconds” or…etc.

Just wondering????

Drunk posting?

Seriously what the… ?

Drunk or not, doesn’t change the fact these automatic, unpredictable (for both parties) CC or stunbreakers should be removed altogether, because they are very annoying.

Not drunk, very serious.

Why does this Rune exist? It’s the perfect example of passive play. The wearer does NOTHING, and I lose control of my character.

And if players feel this is OK, then why aren’t there other runes that do the same thing with different stats. I’d LOVE if Rune of the Mesmer 6th trait was “50% chance when struck to inflict a STUN for 2 seconds”. Thats WAY better than a 30% daze increase.

So either change the Rune, or balance it out so that all the control effects are covered.

SlimChance.6593:

Not drunk, very serious.

Why does this Rune exist? It’s the perfect example of passive play. The wearer does NOTHING, and I lose control of my character.

And if players feel this is OK, then why aren’t there other runes that do the same thing with different stats. I’d LOVE if Rune of the Mesmer 6th trait was “50% chance when struck to inflict a STUN for 2 seconds”. Thats WAY better than a 30% daze increase.

So either change the Rune, or balance it out so that all the control effects are covered.

All control effects aren’t conditions. Fear can be removed from a stunbreak or a condi removal.

Honestly, I’d prefer if they just made it 100% and be done with it. No need for that 50% RNG BS. It wastes computation cycles and doesn’t add anything in my opinion.

While I hate being feared for hitting someone, I don’t think it needs to be removed. It provides interesting builds and play.

SlimChance.6593:

Not drunk, very serious.

Why does this Rune exist? It’s the perfect example of passive play. The wearer does NOTHING, and I lose control of my character.

And if players feel this is OK, then why aren’t there other runes that do the same thing with different stats. I’d LOVE if Rune of the Mesmer 6th trait was “50% chance when struck to inflict a STUN for 2 seconds”. Thats WAY better than a 30% daze increase.

So either change the Rune, or balance it out so that all the control effects are covered.

Again seriously what the…

Yes the wearer does something. He is using the rune of the nightmare. This is like saying I should not benefit from my rune of the ranger and the 7% dps increase, because I ain’t doing anything…

And yeah about the rune of mesmer… I’d also love if the rune of the ranger had as a 6 set bonus, that you could spawn all your pets at once…

Seriously this thread is : I don’t like the way that works. Change it or give me something similar…

While we’re ordering things … can I get a pet that can hit a moving target? :-p

… and a large fry, a frosty, and an apple pie.

Simply change fear into 10% more condi dmg or 10% more fear dmg

The fact that everyone thinks I’m joking around, just exemplifies my point with this rune.

Why should condition builds get a rune like this? Let’s make a Power based one that has the EXACT same 6th trait.

Superior Rune of the Nightmare
(1): +25 Condition Damage
(2): +5% Condition Duration
(3): +50 Condition Damage
(4): +10% Condition Duration
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): 50% chance when struck to cause fear for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

Superior Rune of Reality (Because reality can be pretty frightening too)
(1): +25 Power
(2): +35 Precision
(3): +50 Power
(4): +65 Precision
(5): +100 Power
(6): 50% chance when struck to cause fear for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

Shouldn’t be an issue, because there is nothing wrong with Rune of Nightmare. We want a balance in all aspects of the game. Don’t we???

SlimChance.6593:

The fact that everyone thinks I’m joking around, just exemplifies my point with this rune.

Why should condition builds get a rune like this? Let’s make a Power based one that has the EXACT same 6th trait.

Superior Rune of the Nightmare
(1): +25 Condition Damage
(2): +5% Condition Duration
(3): +50 Condition Damage
(4): +10% Condition Duration
(5): +100 Condition Damage
(6): 50% chance when struck to cause Fear 40 fear for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

Superior Rune of Reality
(1): +25 Power
(2): +35 Precision
(3): +50 Power
(4): +65 Precision
(5): +100 Power
(6): 50% chance when struck to cause Fear 40 fear for 2 seconds. (Cooldown: 90s)

Shouldn’t be an issue, because there is nothing wrong with Rune of Nightmare. We want a balance in all aspects of the game. Don’t we???

Realistically speaking, I don’t see an issue with that proposed Rune. It would rarely be taken, of course, but the exact same counters (stunbreaks, stability, condition removal) work for both. The only concern would be giving that particular ability to true burst specs, but if they were that interested in it, they would be running the Nightmare runes anyway already.

Can Necromancers use Nightmare runes to a better effect than other professions? Yes they can. Is that any different from Elementalists getting more mileage out of Runes of Radiance than anyone else? Is it different from Warriors getting less benefit from Runes of the Ranger than anyone else?

This thread is not an attack on Necromancers, any condi-build can use this. Its an attack on this Rune. It simply should not exist.

I should not lose control of my character while my enemy does nothing. Its that simple. It doesn’t matter that its on a 90 second cooldown. It doesn’t matter that it’s a 50% chance on hit. Its simple. There simply is no counter to this RUNE. There is no telegraph, there is no indication that the player is even WEARING the rune to see the fear coming.

So if this rune stays in the game, then why should only condition builds take advantage of it.

Why not also speak out against runes of the ogre, runes of the pirate, or really anything that gives something on hit? If the point is they get something for doing nothing, all of those runes do the same thing.

The difference between Nightmare and Ogre/Pirate, is that with those runes I sill have control of my character and I can decide to either attack the rock dog/parrot or ignore it. I at least, have the option. With nightmare, I don’t have that option at all.

Don’t get me wrong, I think those runes are cheesy as well. I’ve tried the Pirate Runes, but I just couldn’t justify it my mind. That’s not how I want to play this game.

Lol. If it’s not the professions, it’s the armor stats, runes and sigils that are OP. It’s definitely not the fact that you haven’t thought of a way to counter them, because obviously you’re the best player in the game and you would be unbeatable if everyone else wasn’t playing with such overpowered characters, right? :P

Considering that half of the “meta” pvp builds rely heavily on passives I doubt anyone is going to care about your arguments. If the devs wanted to balance the game based on active combat and animations they would have done so by now.

Aye … boon stacking seems to be more and more rampant … and allows players to not bother nearly as much (if at all) with active defenses like dodges/blocks/etc. … until a Necro, Mesmer, etc. comes in.

Sizer.5632:

Considering that half of the “meta” pvp builds rely heavily on passives I doubt anyone is going to care about your arguments. If the devs wanted to balance the game based on active combat and animations they would have done so by now.

That’s what I’m afraid of. Here’s how I think ANet should handle this.

Option 1
Remove Rune of the Nightmare from PvP

Option 2
Add new Rune of Reality, so the Power Builds can also take advantage of this ridiculous rune.

Option 3
Change the 6th trait of the Rune to simply EXTEND Fear duration. Using Rune of the Mesmer as an example. “Increase Fear Duration by 33%”

SlimChance.6593:

Option 3
Change the 6th trait of the Rune to simply EXTEND Fear duration. Using Rune of the Mesmer as an example. “Increase Fear Duration by 33%”

Steps on the toes of Rune of the Necromancer, then, which has a 6-piece bonus of “+20% Fear duration.” And between the two, Nightmare would be sooooo much better because generic condition duration is much harder to get than vitality.

Note, however, that Runes of the Necromancer are almost never used. This could be a good time to argue that they need a buff, though.

How do you feel about strength runes. 5% damage +45% (lol) might duration balanced?

Thanks for the update, didn’t catch the Necromancer Runes.

My point is that the Rune should improve/enhance the traits of a build and should never add a passive control effect.

OMG, just the description is an oxymoron.. “a passive control effect”. I mean really, why do I have to make a silly stupid thread to make a point on this??

@Cam.. one silly rune at a time my friend, one at a time.

SlimChance.6593:

Thanks for the update, didn’t catch the Necromancer Runes.

My point is that the Rune should improve/enhance the traits of a build and should never add a passive control effect.

OMG, just the description is an oxymoron.. “a passive control effect”. I mean really, why do I have to make a silly stupid thread to make a point on this??

@Cam.. one silly rune at a time my friend, one at a time.

these dont kitten me off nearly as much as perplexity (seriously why is perplexity still in this game), but I agree with the OP. Runes dont need to be proccing fear thats redonkulous.

Dagins.5163:

Drunk or not, doesn’t change the fact these automatic, unpredictable (for both parties) CC or stunbreakers should be removed altogether, because they are very annoying.

90 … seconds…

Really, if 2s fear every 90s is that big a deal to you, then you would have lost the fight out of ragequitting anyhow, Nightmare runes or not. When is anyone ever using those, anyhow? O.o

Cooldown doesn’t matter. The TTK in this game is so fast, it just has to process once. Could be at the beginning of the fight and you have a stunbreaker available or it can come later. You don’t know WHEN it will process!!!!!!!!

You’re up against the new longbow ranger, and you outplay him, your in his face and your about to finish him off when your suddenly feared… as your feared away with your back to ranger….. Rapid Fire and your dead. Simply because you did your job and the Ranger did NOTHING!!!!

Why is this so difficult? I don’t understand some of these responses? What part of “losing control of your character when the wearer does NOTHING” is confusing?

Hmmm … Runes of Nightmare and a Wolf pet?

Initiate super-troll idea …

SlimChance.6593:

The fact that everyone thinks I’m joking around, just exemplifies my point with this rune.

You aren’t making sense, you’re just saying words!

I understand , your in a heavy fight , you already have used your stunbreaks ect to avoid on big attack or focus chained attacks.
and right after its done the rune Procs .
but yes its too random and 90secs is too long to Count in your head while fighting under heavy Circumstances.

the rune needs to be changed as improved (implies the word power creep) as Kuroram said Runes of the Necromancer are almost never used.

SlimChance.6593:

You’re up against the new longbow ranger, and you outplay him, your in his face and your about to finish him off when your suddenly feared… as your feared away with your back to ranger….. Rapid Fire and your dead. Simply because you did your job and the Ranger did NOTHING!!!!

Yes he did. He was smart enough to slot rune of nightmare, and a practical genius, to make it proc milliseconds right before using rapid fire.

This is an MMO rpg game. Building your character acording to your playstyle is a part of the game.

Not to mention that your example is stupid, because a ranger with rune of nightmare should not kill you with 1 rapid fire. In fact no ranger should kill you with 1 rapid fire.

SlimChance.6593:

Cooldown doesn’t matter. The TTK in this game is so fast

0/10

TTK is fast if you’re glassy.

Don’t be glassy and you won’t get dropped so quickly.

I do not see a problem with it personally. Not with the cool down duration. Particularly when the OP is being so picky and choosy about the issue. Clearly they do not care about effects that occur which require no action from the player. Reaper’s Protection does the exact same thing, and you never mention it.

If these runes proc against a player with shared anguish, tempest defense, Auto defense bomb dispenser, Retaliatory Subconscious, Mirror of Anguish, Reaper’s Protection, Hide in Plain Sight, Hard to Catch, and Last Stand. Those skills all either redirect the effect of fear from these runes, or any other source for that matter, or negate partially or entirely.

SlimChance.6593:

You’re up against the new longbow ranger, and you outplay him, your in his face and your about to finish him off when your suddenly feared… as your feared away with your back to ranger….. Rapid Fire and your dead. Simply because you did your job and the Ranger did NOTHING!!!!

Why is this so difficult? I don’t understand some of these responses? What part of “losing control of your character when the wearer does NOTHING” is confusing?

Because we all don’t have a problem with it.
We don’t get why it is a problem to you. We’re doing just fine with the runes on our enemies. Or well, not, because very few use them because they’re pretty meh. But yeah they come up sometimes but really, 2s fear every 90s in a game to 500 points or fights between up to 166 players per side? The point? I don’t see it.

If you mind loss of character control so much, sorry, CC is a very integral part of RPG character design and is very underpowered in GW2 already to enable more action-based combat. Compare 1 minute 30 second mezz spells in other games. :P

Also, out of curiosity, what are your runes doing? You know that setbonus actually takes up a slot on the runes?

Or we could just have an indicator that the rune is off cooldown? Like doom sigil or intelligence sigil or leeching sigil…

I love it when a warrior heals while doing nothing or being 10s immune. Or 5s CCed

Sad truth aside, yes nightmare proc is stupid. Noone likes it. And ANet may be stupid enough to balance an entire proffesion around a 90s 1v1 one trick pony.

• remove / lower back to 1s fear
• revert bleed nerfs
• start fixing sustain issues ( traited heals working with DS for start)

Personally, 90s seems like an entirely too lengthy cd. Personally I find this no more or less exploitive then runes that stack a condition such as chill.

Passive play and passive procs are rather different in context tho maybe not much on paper.

Passive play implies you have a build or a spec where majority of what you do is carried by momentum that is held in place by passives. A passive playstyle is only effective and “OP” when it carries itself beyond ineptitude to be effective. For example a shout warrior, PU mesmer, and BM ranger. all 3 gain momentum passively as long as the player is not totally inept (as in able to doge appropriate skills as well as LoS effectively) the builds will continue to scale momentum in a rather unfair way with very little input compared to the glass cannon who is losing just from taking an extra auto attack.

Passive procs however change up game play and make it interesting. It’s an unexpected measure for players to actively play around/plan for/ or over come. I feel when we discuss things like “Runes of nightmare balance” and we point out that it’s flaw is passive play I don’t think it’s the one 90 sec c/d that is problematic, then it is more the builds that have access to it.

I’m sure if we saw a thief or ele running these runes it’d be a lot more tolerable than an engie.

it’s just obnoxious. it’s overeffective passive gameplay that has literally no counterplay other than “don’t hit your opponent”. you can react to the effects, but you can’t actually react to the proc. if runes of the mesmer got a 2.5-3.5 second stun on the 6th that rewarded you for just getting hit you’d see people up in arms.

either reduce the duration, add a broadcast that tells you the runes have been proc’d and gives you some time to react, make the fear have a pbaoe range, or lower the proc chances.

sinject.4607:

it’s just obnoxious. it’s overeffective passive gameplay that has literally no counterplay other than “don’t hit your opponent”. you can react to the effects, but you can’t actually react to the proc. if runes of the mesmer got a 2.5-3.5 second stun on the 6th that rewarded you for just getting hit you’d see people up in arms.

either reduce the duration, add a broadcast that tells you the runes have been proc’d and gives you some time to react, make the fear have a pbaoe range, or lower the proc chances.

Two seconds of fear every 90 seconds (and that’s being generous as there is RNG involved) is over-effective? I can Blink out of that within a second of it being casted on me and I’m no where near pro level. Even then, I wouldn’t blink until my opponent was about to use something powerful against me so I could dodge that and break fear. That level of gameplay interaction is what this game needs. Also, I do hope you carry at least one stunbreak into fights for such occasions of you’re really just screwing yourself over.

And if the mesmer runes dazed an attacking opponent every 90 seconds or so, I’d actually consider using them.

sinject.4607:

it’s just obnoxious. it’s overeffective passive gameplay that has literally no counterplay other than “don’t hit your opponent”. you can react to the effects, but you can’t actually react to the proc. if runes of the mesmer got a 2.5-3.5 second stun on the 6th that rewarded you for just getting hit you’d see people up in arms.

either reduce the duration, add a broadcast that tells you the runes have been proc’d and gives you some time to react, make the fear have a pbaoe range, or lower the proc chances.

Well, to start, I question your sincerity here. I would be willing to wager my first born (I don’t like him much anyway) that you do not use these runes on all of your 80s. If they are so OP, why don’t you? Speaking of passive counterplay, how does one counter the increased dazed duration or the increased damage that it’s precession offers? You are being unrealistic is what passive functionalities you pick and chose to be okay with here.

LOL. You can quadruple the duration of these runes on a ranger.

2s Fear x Moment of Clarity x Condition Duration = 8s Fear.

Slap on a shortbow and bleed from flanking.

I’ve had my fun shutting down necros and engis completely with these runes. I don’t mind seeing it nerfed.

To be honest, I think Runes dominate the game way too much as a whole. Their effects are too strong. I wish they’d go back to the GW1 system, where runes simply boosted defense, health, energy etc, and where it’s the actual builds that make the difference.

Because I want to be able to experiment with different builds by swapping out skills and traits for free, without having to switch out expensive runes for tons of gold.

I sense a thief who died on eotm thx to this rune :P

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

To be honest, I think Runes dominate the game way too much as a whole. Their effects are too strong. I wish they’d go back to the GW1 system, where runes simply boosted defense, health, energy etc, and where it’s the actual builds that make the difference.

Yes, this. Definitely this.

Sigils, too, though not as much.
I like the idea behind runes, “pick your own set bonus”. But they’re so build-making it’s crazy. Plus they just augment existent power: If you go for a PvE power build, you won’t all of a sudden pick up Runes of the Krait.

My proposal would be:

• Cut stat gain on runes to +10, +20, +30, for +60 total. That’s assuming single stat, and stats always come at 1, 3 and 5 ofc.
• At 2, gain some special effect. Not strong mind you, example Runes of Nightmare: When your enemy is immune to an ability you use, reduce that ability’s cooldown by 15%. kitten CD.
• At 4, gain a graphical effect. Example Runes of Nightmare: Using a fear effect now sends out a wave of wailing ghosts towards the target or around you.
• At 6, enhance the 2-effect in some way. Example Runes of Nightmare: CD reduction is now 35%.

kiwituatara.6053:

LOL. You can quadruple the duration of these runes on a ranger.

2s Fear x Moment of Clarity x Condition Duration = 8s Fear.

Slap on a shortbow and bleed from flanking.

I’ve had my fun shutting down necros and engis completely with these runes. I don’t mind seeing it nerfed.

Moment of clarity is only . Daze and stun .

This is a great time to point out another benefit of Ranger pets … I’m pretty sure they eat this for me sometimes. Go go Ranger pet! You die to one-shot boss mechanics and zergs, but everywhere else you’re my fluffy/feathery/scaly little all-stars. Lol.

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

kiwituatara.6053:

LOL. You can quadruple the duration of these runes on a ranger.

2s Fear x Moment of Clarity x Condition Duration = 8s Fear.

Slap on a shortbow and bleed from flanking.

I’ve had my fun shutting down necros and engis completely with these runes. I don’t mind seeing it nerfed.

Moment of clarity is only . Daze and stun .

And Fear. Tooltip is incorrect.

I say we all just run around naked.

Then you can bask in the glory of my mesmer as you see 4 big naked norns … and butterflies!

Zenos Osgorma.2936:

kiwituatara.6053:

LOL. You can quadruple the duration of these runes on a ranger.

2s Fear x Moment of Clarity x Condition Duration = 8s Fear.

Slap on a shortbow and bleed from flanking.

I’ve had my fun shutting down necros and engis completely with these runes. I don’t mind seeing it nerfed.

Moment of clarity is only . Daze and stun .

You should try it out yourself >:D MoC does affect Fear duration.
You can try it with Boar/Warthog even though it might take a while due to RNG. You’re looking for them to drop “Skull” on F2.

3s Fear x MoC x (100% Condition Duration) = 12s Fear

Um Wow.. I didn’t know that about Moment of Clarity. I used the Ranger as an example simply because of the new Rapid Fire changes. Thanks for pointing it out.

This rune has no place in PvP. Either remove it or change it.

Enemy does NOTHING and you LOSE CONTROL of your character.

By that logic, get rid of anything that activates

• when you gain a condition
• when your health gets to X%
• when your target’s health gets to X%
• every X seconds
  You did nothing to activate any of these. Technically, on-hit and on-crit are like this too. You were just attacking, not choosing to proc it. It just proc’d on its own.

Heck, I’m surprised Mesmer’s Mirror of Anguish hasn’t been included in here yet … you CC me and I get to automatically CC you too … I did nothing :-p

It’s very low RNG (50% is going to happen quite reliably) and something they included in their build. Just like other aspects of a build, you need to learn to deal with it … or continue to lose (and gripe on forums about it).

Adapt or lose.