Guild Wars 2

I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active. Why worry about managing your heal or protecting it with stability if you never need to actually cast it. It’s the same reason a lot of guardians run the block heal, it is almost impossible to interrupt and doesn’t need to be actively protected. As it stands, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a warrior actually use healing signet unless they were panicking and about to die anyway.

True, all skills have their weakness, even the passive ones. But saying poison is a counter for healing signet really isn’t saying much because poison counters all heals except the few that inherently remove it.

Harper.4173:

Also I see you haven’t been with the game long. Since there’s stuff in your post that proves you don’t really have a grasp of class DPS output.

Aside from that – another fun fact : there are more PVE warriors enjoying healing signet then there probably are sPVP hardcore players hating it.

You have to realize this game is mostly focused on PVE, and that PVP is an afterthought at best since hardly anybody plays it now.

Do everyone a favor, and stop trying to use PvE to justify passive skills that promote lack of game play, We do not expect the player base to be genies, but it would be nice if everyone could wrap there head around the fact that PvE is probably the worst aspect to balance around.

Necrotize.2974:

I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active.

Part of the problem based on this, is that while others have to stop defending themselves or attacking to heal, warriors can skip this step. It is an unfair and unreasonable advantage.

The second problem, as far as I am concerned, is the double standard here, by specific posters. There are posters here defending HS, who constantly attack stealth, troll incendiary powder threads to bash is passive play, and so on. (IP is a problem, stealth is not).

Necrotize.2974:

I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active. Why worry about managing your heal or protecting it with stability if you never need to actually cast it. It’s the same reason a lot of guardians run the block heal, it is almost impossible to interrupt and doesn’t need to be actively protected. As it stands, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a warrior actually use healing signet unless they were panicking and about to die anyway.

True, all skills have their weakness, even the passive ones. But saying poison is a counter for healing signet really isn’t saying much because poison counters all heals except the few that inherently remove it.

True. Poison does that, but it “double” counters HS.
Reason being that Healing Signet requires you to NOT activate it. If you do, you lose out on valuable HP. Yet poison takes a skill that grants around 390-400 hp/second down to 250-290 hp/second. Now, compare that to a large health pool and you realizes that warriors is in a tight spot without the poison. With poison, their not going to make it even if they use the active, mainly because the active is too weak, but also because a weak active with poison applied to it is not going to rescue them or even buy them any notable time.

If warriors have no conditions on them, runs a xx6xx uses both zerk and endure stance then in that little 4 second window of “no pain” they can heal for roughly 2000 HP, on a base HP pool of 18.5k and you realizes that it is almost not worth mentioning. Sure, adrenal health and healing signet is 100% active as long as their requirements (not been activated/got adrenaline) is met, yet still they cannot carry the warrior.

Good examples of this is in WvW. Despite it’s durability, its sustain and its ruggedness, the warriors on the frontline, they do not sustain themselves, it is the guardians that sustain them. Without the guardians granting heals, protection , stability and regeneration and condition cleanses, they would be overwhelmed by the sheer damage output.
This transfers to PvP too, but in a much less visible way. While warriors are undoubtedly strong and tanky, they are often going down very fast when their 4-8 seconds of “god mode” is over.

In short, the design of the healing signet only allow the warrior to exist for 4-8 seconds before it is left with only CC cooldowns to sustain it. And while you can live long by stunlocking enemies, you can also get stunlocked yourself (common occurrence) or otherwise incapacitated by a sudden surge of soft CC.

NinjaEd.3946:

Harper.4173:

I too would like to find it but forum search is broken.

Problem is this – you might think you’ve seen a lot of players dislike it – but since you dislike it yourself you’re only seeing what you want to see.
Because bias.

There are a lot more things people dislike more that will never be changed – I don’t see how HS has to be changed because some people dislike it.

Nothing in a game will be universally liked.

Google search OP…..

I don’t think, I’ve literally seen. You’d have to be new to the game to not come across the numerous posts that HS is bad or that warrior is easy-mode, or anything of the sort. The topic however is a dead horse and isn’t being beaten as much these days.

If you wana talk about how “how HS has to be changed because some people dislike it”, I beg you to play thief and enjoy the perspective there.

Nice how you will rapid fire posts but won’t actually go to the trouble to find out what people think on HS. Here I’ll help you-

You do realize warrior has been nerfed into the ground again with the adrenaline change this last balance patch yes?

I do play thief and I do enjoy the perspective. Actually since the last patch I’ve moved towards thief in my PVP since Warrior had the adrenaline change.

Oddly enough I played thief even before the adrenaline update and considered warrior to be easy mode to smash even before the September update. Guess we have different ways of playing thief.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

Also I see you haven’t been with the game long. Since there’s stuff in your post that proves you don’t really have a grasp of class DPS output.

Aside from that – another fun fact : there are more PVE warriors enjoying healing signet then there probably are sPVP hardcore players hating it.

You have to realize this game is mostly focused on PVE, and that PVP is an afterthought at best since hardly anybody plays it now.

Do everyone a favor, and stop trying to use PvE to justify passive skills that promote lack of game play, We do not expect the player base to be genies, but it would be nice if everyone could wrap there head around the fact that PvE is probably the worst aspect to balance around.

Necrotize.2974:

I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active.

Part of the problem based on this, is that while others have to stop defending themselves or attacking to heal, warriors can skip this step. It is an unfair and unreasonable advantage.

The second problem, as far as I am concerned, is the double standard here, by specific posters. There are posters here defending HS, who constantly attack stealth, troll incendiary powder threads to bash is passive play, and so on. (IP is a problem, stealth is not).

Do everyone a favor and realize that the PVE crowd in this game is far more important to the developers than any of the remaining fragments of “pvp players”. If it’s not obvious to you by now…I’m sorry nothing’s gonna help you.

The problem is that they won’t split skills and honestly I doubt the minority of players saying “HS is bad change it” is worth the trouble you’ll get from changing it.

The issue remains – the skill isn’t a problem. The only problem is people not understanding you can’t completely eliminate passive gameplay.
And the signet has counterplay – the only problem is that it’s not as simple as “press interrupt as they are healing”.

I run dual doom sigils on weapons. It melts warriors running HS like there’s no tomorrow.

I would gladly take a 290 hps, after poison, over my 5100 heal every 25s before poison. The problem is coumpounded. It is better then every heal on every profession, in terms of hps, plus it is 100% passive,. Where every other profession has to stop it’s offensive actions or stop it defensive action, to heal, while warriors are free to spend that time continuing with there attacks or applications of defensive skills.

Prysin.8542:

Necrotize.2974:

I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active. Why worry about managing your heal or protecting it with stability if you never need to actually cast it. It’s the same reason a lot of guardians run the block heal, it is almost impossible to interrupt and doesn’t need to be actively protected. As it stands, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a warrior actually use healing signet unless they were panicking and about to die anyway.

True, all skills have their weakness, even the passive ones. But saying poison is a counter for healing signet really isn’t saying much because poison counters all heals except the few that inherently remove it.

True. Poison does that, but it “double” counters HS.
Reason being that Healing Signet requires you to NOT activate it. If you do, you lose out on valuable HP. Yet poison takes a skill that grants around 390-400 hp/second down to 250-290 hp/second. Now, compare that to a large health pool and you realizes that warriors is in a tight spot without the poison. With poison, their not going to make it even if they use the active, mainly because the active is too weak, but also because a weak active with poison applied to it is not going to rescue them or even buy them any notable time.

If warriors have no conditions on them, runs a xx6xx uses both zerk and endure stance then in that little 4 second window of “no pain” they can heal for roughly 2000 HP, on a base HP pool of 18.5k and you realizes that it is almost not worth mentioning. Sure, adrenal health and healing signet is 100% active as long as their requirements (not been activated/got adrenaline) is met, yet still they cannot carry the warrior.

Good examples of this is in WvW. Despite it’s durability, its sustain and its ruggedness, the warriors on the frontline, they do not sustain themselves, it is the guardians that sustain them. Without the guardians granting heals, protection , stability and regeneration and condition cleanses, they would be overwhelmed by the sheer damage output.
This transfers to PvP too, but in a much less visible way. While warriors are undoubtedly strong and tanky, they are often going down very fast when their 4-8 seconds of “god mode” is over.

In short, the design of the healing signet only allow the warrior to exist for 4-8 seconds before it is left with only CC cooldowns to sustain it. And while you can live long by stunlocking enemies, you can also get stunlocked yourself (common occurrence) or otherwise incapacitated by a sudden surge of soft CC.

Still, doesn’t change the fact that healing signet is probably one of the best heals in this game despite being entirely passive. Just going from the wiki’s numbers and picking probably the most popular heals, none will consistently match the hp/s of HS and the ones that come close have specific circumstances or drawbacks. The closest heals that match the healing power of the signet are Ether Feast, Ether Renewal, and Consume Conditions. Ether feast requires 3 illusions up to come close to HS’ hp/s, while Ether Renewal has a long and very obvious cast time that if interrupted at any point goes on full cd. Consume Conditions requires conditions to be effective so if it is interrupted when it is really needed, chances are they’re dead. Obviously there are many more factors to this issue, but just going from the numbers, most heals are at least 100 hp/s behind Healing Signet despite being far more active. This was just a quick little calculation using the wiki and the most commonly used heals like Shelter, Troll Ungent, Healing Turret, Withdraw and the ones listed above so this definitely isn’t comprehensive. But it terms of healing per second, HS pretty obviously outclasses a lot of other active heals.

And to the point of stunlocking. Any class can be stunlocked, just like any class can be poisoned. Only difference is that healing signet+adrenal health keep ticking in the background whereas other heals don’t. Using something like Ether Renewal against a class with a lot of stuns like hammer warrior is suicide.

I’m not saying just nerf HS and be done with it. The other heals need to be brought up to the level of HS in usability and then HS can be toned down. It should not be the only viable option for most warriors despite it being passive.

coglin.1867:

I would gladly take a 290 hps, after poison, over my 5100 heal every 25s before poison. The problem is coumpounded. It is better then every heal on every profession, in terms of hps, plus it is 100% passive,. Where every other profession has to stop it’s offensive actions or stop it defensive action, to heal, while warriors are free to spend that time continuing with there attacks or applications of defensive skills.

Lol, This is really funny, you would not want to use healing signet as thief.
not only you will miss either, a stealth or an evade, you will miss the burst heal. same goes for enginner, you will miss not only blast finisher also water field and one of the limited condition cleanse option you posses also the burst healing. with healing signet, you will die so quick, you won’t even have the time to regen anything. Lol. that’s why the only meta builds are all tanky(PTV, celestial, shout heal) speced, on top of highest base HP and heavy armor.

not to mention how healing signet used to heal for 200 ish, and no one ever used it and it was completely trash.

really. if you want to argue something, know your own class at least. not really going to ask you to learn about history of the skill or anything…

Simon.3794:

Lol, This is really funny, you would not want to use healing signet as thief.
not only you will miss either, a stealth or an evade, you will miss the burst heal. same goes for enginner, you will miss not only blast finisher also water field and one of the limited condition cleanse option you posses also the burst healing. with healing signet, you will die so quick, you won’t even have the time to regen anything. Lol. that’s why the only meta builds are all tanky(PTV, celestial, shout heal) speced, on top of highest base HP and heavy armor.

not to mention how healing signet used to heal for 200 ish, and no one ever used it and it was completely trash.

really. if you want to argue something, know your own class at least. not really going to ask you to learn about history of the skill or anything…

As a necromancer I would consider healing signet since it would mean that I can heal under high cc pressure. I may strongest condition cleanse skill in the game, but it is certainly worth testing especially since necromancers have other sources of condition cleansing and are very weak too cc.

coglin.1867:

I would gladly take a 290 hps, after poison, over my 5100 heal every 25s before poison. The problem is coumpounded. It is better then every heal on every profession, in terms of hps, plus it is 100% passive,. Where every other profession has to stop it’s offensive actions or stop it defensive action, to heal, while warriors are free to spend that time continuing with there attacks or applications of defensive skills.

You can’t compare skills across professions because you have to look at the broader context.

Other professions have the ability to greatly mitigate and avoid incoming damage which warriors are by design supposed to just eat.
Other professions also have other passive skills, mechanics and even heals that are just as passive as healing signet.

Warriors aren’t “free” to use that time. The downside of the skills is that you can’t really use it to heal up after a burst you just received.

Honestly – I don’t even understand why you people are still at it. In case you didn’t notice the warrior profession isn’t even a thing in sPVP or general PVP anymore.
It’s been nerfed so hard the context of this " OP " healing signet is a class who has had its main mechanic butchered.

It’s ridiculous how people keep complaining about warrior but are totally fine being roflstomped by other classes that use even MORE passive gameplay.

Harper.4173:

You can’t compare skills across professions because you have to look at the broader context.

Actually, I can, and rightfully so. The fact that you have previously done so in this thread, yet shout down others for doing so, doesn’t yield much value to what your saying.

Harper.4173:

Other professions have the ability to greatly mitigate and avoid incoming damage which warriors are by design supposed to just eat.
Other professions also have other passive skills, mechanics and even heals that are just as passive as healing signet.

You mean such as stances? Dolyak signet doesn’t mitigate damage? You have no proof they are intended to eat damage, you are simply stating your opinion as fact. You chide other passive skills now? A bit of a double standard isn’kitten I know have spoken out against passive play on all of the profession (I have an 80 of each profession), including speaking out against IP, and I main an engineer.

Harper.4173:

Warriors aren’t “free” to use that time. The downside of the skills is that you can’t really use it to heal up after a burst you just received.

Yes, they are. It is actually a proven fact. Would you like me to break down the skills per minute usable and show you how using heal skills will cut down on other skills able to be used by other profession? Link me the build you would like compared and I will gladly do so.

Harper.4173:

Honestly – I don’t even understand why you people are still at it. In case you didn’t notice the warrior profession isn’t even a thing in sPVP or general PVP anymore.
It’s been nerfed so hard the context of this " OP " healing signet is a class who has had its main mechanic butchered.

I have noticed that personally, I see them regularly. I also see a great deal of players who have accounts I recognize, playing long bow rangers now too. That doesn’t make LB rangers ideal for PvP. Nerfed or not, it still heals as much and very often, more then other heals, yet it also does so passively. If you disagree, then prove it. Your making a lot of claims that have already been disproven with actual facts and numbers.

Harper.4173:

It’s ridiculous how people keep complaining about warrior but are totally fine being roflstomped by other classes that use even MORE passive gameplay.

Got proof anyone on this thread gets roflstomped by any other profession? Unless you do, your simply making unsupported claims. Doing that benefits no one.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

You can’t compare skills across professions because you have to look at the broader context.

Actually, I can, and rightfully so. The fact that you have previously done so in this thread, yet shout down others for doing so, doesn’t yield much value to what your saying.

Harper.4173:

This is ridiculous.
What about stealth? Stealth isn’t fun to play against. I can’t have fun not seeing my opponent.

What about clones? Clones aren’t fun to play against. It’s confusing and annoying to have so many things on the screen.

However these aren’t a problem – but HS is. Cute.

Right here, in this very thread, you compare healing signet to stealth and clones and claim that if the person doesn’t find those annoying, then they shouldn’t find HS problematic. Just saying.

NinjaEd.3946:

fellyn.5083:

NinjaEd.3946:

Simon.3794:

Like i said, if you want to do the fastest speed run, it’s 1 warrior max, why you keep saying the ease of play, you did say “speed clear” which is not random LFG with random pugs and which no noobs should be involved in this conversation and game is not balanced around noobs and pve is heck easy.

and clearly, you know nothing about speed run and max damage out put, if you think frostbow 4 is all ele has

and if you really know anything about speed run instead of acting like you know anything because you do LFG pug groups, you will know that all the fastest speed clears done in the current meta is one warrior max. really, researching is not hard

Speed clear means literally what it looks like it means, clearing the dungeon quickly. If you wana argue the few seconds difference in part A-Z of a dungeon then you are probably the least enjoyable person to run a dungeon with.

Slip ups happen, it’s not a “noob” thing. It can be RL stuff, lag, messing up a rotation by a second, etc. If you’re glued to the monitor and timing your teammates by the second I would immediately report you for being a kitten and spam “lol” PM’s as I kick you from the group because that is toxic behavior. No one should care about a minute extra for a dungeon run, you’re just way to invested in the game at that point.

So your “optimal” group comp non-sense is just music to my ears. Warrior is low risk high reward in pve and can find a place in any “speed clear”.

I find it amusing that you say you’ll kick people from a group because they expect everyone in the run to know what they’re doing because you claim it’s toxic behavior.

Yet you’re perfectly okay with kicking people from the group, reporting them, and “loling” at them after you’ve done so.

Lets talk about that toxic behavior..

Funny that you would cater a Q.Q player rather than let them know how it feels to be kicked for stupid kitten.

I could care less for clearing a dungeon in the best time possible, there is no reward for it and I play the game to pass time not squeeze my kitten through the screen to let everyone know I’m pro. So yeah, I’d gladly make such a player feel bad for being a bad egg. Not much else I can or would want to do, because it wouldn’t be worth listening too.

Nono, I was just pointing out the irony that you don’t like a certain behavior you deem toxic yet you perpetuate your own toxic behavior in retaliation.

Here’s a tip for you. If you don’t like speed runs you can either; 1) create your own groups or 2) don’t join groups advertised as speed runs. It’s really pretty simple.

Sometimes when I don’t care about getting through a dungeon fast or I’m playing a newly made character and still learning it and/or gearing it I advertise my party as casual and guess what? People join who don’t care about how fast we clear or how geared we are. It’s crazy, I know. And usually those groups end up being better than the speed run groups.

I also gotta ask, what do you report those people for? Taking a dungeon run too seriously? And do you realize abusing the report button (it says in the dialog window) can get you banned?

In any event, this has nothing to do with warriors or healing sig. Which are fine for the most part.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

Also I see you haven’t been with the game long. Since there’s stuff in your post that proves you don’t really have a grasp of class DPS output.

Aside from that – another fun fact : there are more PVE warriors enjoying healing signet then there probably are sPVP hardcore players hating it.

You have to realize this game is mostly focused on PVE, and that PVP is an afterthought at best since hardly anybody plays it now.

Do everyone a favor, and stop trying to use PvE to justify passive skills that promote lack of game play, We do not expect the player base to be genies, but it would be nice if everyone could wrap there head around the fact that PvE is probably the worst aspect to balance around.

Necrotize.2974:

I feel like people just don’t like Healing Signet because it is probably one of warriors best heals if not the best and is completely passive. Passive play inherently has a lower skill cap than active play, but that does not mean passive play should be made stronger than active.

Part of the problem based on this, is that while others have to stop defending themselves or attacking to heal, warriors can skip this step. It is an unfair and unreasonable advantage.

The second problem, as far as I am concerned, is the double standard here, by specific posters. There are posters here defending HS, who constantly attack stealth, troll incendiary powder threads to bash is passive play, and so on. (IP is a problem, stealth is not).

And yet pve players have to deal with the nerfs just as much, and in some cases more so than the pvp players they were supposed to be balanced around. AKA recent adrenaline changes.

If we go by popular opinion it’s that hambow, the build the recent changes to warrior was designed to nerf is the one least affected by the adrenaline changes. While in pve that build is completely useless, but the builds people used in pve got nerfed into oblivion.

fellyn.5083:

Nono, I was just pointing out the irony that you don’t like a certain behavior you deem toxic yet you perpetuate your own toxic behavior in retaliation.

Here’s a tip for you. If you don’t like speed runs you can either; 1) create your own groups or 2) don’t join groups advertised as speed runs. It’s really pretty simple.

Sometimes when I don’t care about getting through a dungeon fast or I’m playing a newly made character and still learning it and/or gearing it I advertise my party as casual and guess what? People join who don’t care about how fast we clear or how geared we are. It’s crazy, I know. And usually those groups end up being better than the speed run groups.

I also gotta ask, what do you report those people for? Taking a dungeon run too seriously? And do you realize abusing the report button (it says in the dialog window) can get you banned?

In any event, this has nothing to do with warriors or healing sig. Which are fine for the most part.

Well I’d say what I’ve done (since I stopped playing) is far less severe than getting towards the end of a dungeon and vote kicking someone because they d/c for like 2 minutes only to PM me after reconnecting thinking I was the one who was responsible. That is just 1 example of toxic LFG members I’ve come across, I’ve got dozens more to share.

You can advertise you want only norn males who use cultural armor and whatever else you want, most people do not follow those messages sadly. Simple example, I will join a group advertised as <insert dungeon name here> lf(x)m, the most basic post anyone would lay. Join the group, it either has hardcore kittens asking to link your gear, or they leave if you don’t fill up in under 30 seconds, or they join the group and say things like “wt*, a ranger?”, etc. So whether it was false advertised or some kittens joined in its not exactly avoidable. And the LFG system is across all servers so it’s not like I’m on a rotten server because they are almost all rotten.

In the case of reporting them, it’s often verbal abuse because it ends up being present. Whether its unnecessary rude statements or flat out caps-lock yelling, it usually shows up and I’m really glad anet never added in-game voice chat because I would have GW2 on mute 24/7.

Worst case I’ve had was one of the arah paths, can’t recall which but I was going for dungeon master title. We got to the 2nd or 3rd to last boss and kept wiping again and again. Tried different set ups but they didn’t work but one thing never changed, 1 kitten just kept flipping. We kept telling him to relax, we’re trying, etc etc finally he just says some ridiculous statement in party chat and rage quits, so we post on the lfg site (before the in-game lfg system was added) and a guy joins. We try again, and what-do-ya-know, we beat the boss (think it was the 6 gods path at dwayna or lyssa where its a dps trial). Sure enough, the 4 of us that were there from the start laugh at what a kitten the other guy was and I reported him for verbal abuse. So yeah, when I come across people who are just plain rude you bet I’m going to make them feel bad and immediately add them to the block list so I don’t come across them again. A little childish but this game is riddled with immature brats and I just don’t care to stress over them. Same reason I find people’s “optimal” dps set up to be pathetic because the player experience and build are far more important than having 1war/1ele/2guard/1 thief or w/e other non-sense comp people come up with. If you got a brain and up-to-date gear (not necessarily ascended) you can beat a dungeon comparable to a “speed clear”.

I thought everyone knew by now. People make these threads just so they have something to complain about, that’s how sad humanity has become.
In general, we complain about everything even if we don’t need to.
Go ahead and nerf an already nerfed skill so it becomes like it was before they buffed it, you guys will just complain afterwards about Signet of Restoration, then Healing Turret and on and on, it’s an endless cycle.

I forgot people don’t know professions are different for a reason, like having higher hp because of no protection, or having stealth because of squishyness.

Necrotize.2974:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

You can’t compare skills across professions because you have to look at the broader context.

Actually, I can, and rightfully so. The fact that you have previously done so in this thread, yet shout down others for doing so, doesn’t yield much value to what your saying.

Harper.4173:

This is ridiculous.
What about stealth? Stealth isn’t fun to play against. I can’t have fun not seeing my opponent.

What about clones? Clones aren’t fun to play against. It’s confusing and annoying to have so many things on the screen.

However these aren’t a problem – but HS is. Cute.

Right here, in this very thread, you compare healing signet to stealth and clones and claim that if the person doesn’t find those annoying, then they shouldn’t find HS problematic. Just saying.

The point was that the game isn’t balanced according to “fun”.
That would be simply horrendous. Nothing that’s good will ever be fun if you’re getting beaten by it. At least not to most players.

You can’t balance a game’s skills and traits by using " how fun is this to play against" as a metric.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Harper.4173:

You can’t compare skills across professions because you have to look at the broader context.

Actually, I can, and rightfully so. The fact that you have previously done so in this thread, yet shout down others for doing so, doesn’t yield much value to what your saying.

Harper.4173:

Other professions have the ability to greatly mitigate and avoid incoming damage which warriors are by design supposed to just eat.
Other professions also have other passive skills, mechanics and even heals that are just as passive as healing signet.

You mean such as stances? Dolyak signet doesn’t mitigate damage? You have no proof they are intended to eat damage, you are simply stating your opinion as fact. You chide other passive skills now? A bit of a double standard isn’kitten I know have spoken out against passive play on all of the profession (I have an 80 of each profession), including speaking out against IP, and I main an engineer.

Harper.4173:

Warriors aren’t “free” to use that time. The downside of the skills is that you can’t really use it to heal up after a burst you just received.

Yes, they are. It is actually a proven fact. Would you like me to break down the skills per minute usable and show you how using heal skills will cut down on other skills able to be used by other profession? Link me the build you would like compared and I will gladly do so.

Harper.4173:

Honestly – I don’t even understand why you people are still at it. In case you didn’t notice the warrior profession isn’t even a thing in sPVP or general PVP anymore.
It’s been nerfed so hard the context of this " OP " healing signet is a class who has had its main mechanic butchered.

I have noticed that personally, I see them regularly. I also see a great deal of players who have accounts I recognize, playing long bow rangers now too. That doesn’t make LB rangers ideal for PvP. Nerfed or not, it still heals as much and very often, more then other heals, yet it also does so passively. If you disagree, then prove it. Your making a lot of claims that have already been disproven with actual facts and numbers.

Harper.4173:

It’s ridiculous how people keep complaining about warrior but are totally fine being roflstomped by other classes that use even MORE passive gameplay.

Got proof anyone on this thread gets roflstomped by any other profession? Unless you do, your simply making unsupported claims. Doing that benefits no one.

Wow. Dolyak signet mitigates damage now? Who’d have thought.

How does it mitigate damage exaclty? It adds a flat amount of toughness – that’s hardly what I’d call active damage mitigation.

Stances have incredibly long cooldowns. They aren’t really going to help you avoid more than one situation.

Also – as far as numbers and facts go – I haven’t seen you providing any – just the mention that they exist.

goldenwing.9654:

I thought everyone knew by now. People make these threads just so they have something to complain about, that’s how sad humanity has become.
In general, we complain about everything even if we don’t need to.
Go ahead and nerf an already nerfed skill so it becomes like it was before they buffed it, you guys will just complain afterwards about Signet of Restoration, then Healing Turret and on and on, it’s an endless cycle.

I forgot people don’t know professions are different for a reason, like having higher hp because of no protection, or having stealth because of squishyness.

You really can’t apply that to everything. Sometimes people complain about things that genuinely need to be fixed. Of course, everyone has a different opinion on what needs to be fixed so the only opinion that really matters in the end is that of the devs.

Professions should be different, but you have to admit that HS is pretty obviously superior to the other warrior heals even though all it provides is health as a passive when people, especially now, are saying Adrenaline is super hard to build or that warriors have no condition removal. Maybe Adrenaline and Conditions are such a problem because no one is willing to sacrifice healing signet to use Healing Surge or Mending.

Necrotize.2974:

goldenwing.9654:

I thought everyone knew by now. People make these threads just so they have something to complain about, that’s how sad humanity has become.
In general, we complain about everything even if we don’t need to.
Go ahead and nerf an already nerfed skill so it becomes like it was before they buffed it, you guys will just complain afterwards about Signet of Restoration, then Healing Turret and on and on, it’s an endless cycle.

I forgot people don’t know professions are different for a reason, like having higher hp because of no protection, or having stealth because of squishyness.

You really can’t apply that to everything. Sometimes people complain about things that genuinely need to be fixed. Of course, everyone has a different opinion on what needs to be fixed so the only opinion that really matters in the end is that of the devs.

Professions should be different, but you have to admit that HS is pretty obviously superior to the other warrior heals even though all it provides is health as a passive when people, especially now, are saying Adrenaline is super hard to build or that warriors have no condition removal. Maybe Adrenaline and Conditions are such a problem because no one is willing to sacrifice healing signet to use Healing Surge or Mending.

Or maybe Healing Surge and Mending are garbage and that’s why no one uses them.

fellyn.5083:

Necrotize.2974:

goldenwing.9654:

I thought everyone knew by now. People make these threads just so they have something to complain about, that’s how sad humanity has become.
In general, we complain about everything even if we don’t need to.
Go ahead and nerf an already nerfed skill so it becomes like it was before they buffed it, you guys will just complain afterwards about Signet of Restoration, then Healing Turret and on and on, it’s an endless cycle.

I forgot people don’t know professions are different for a reason, like having higher hp because of no protection, or having stealth because of squishyness.

You really can’t apply that to everything. Sometimes people complain about things that genuinely need to be fixed. Of course, everyone has a different opinion on what needs to be fixed so the only opinion that really matters in the end is that of the devs.

Professions should be different, but you have to admit that HS is pretty obviously superior to the other warrior heals even though all it provides is health as a passive when people, especially now, are saying Adrenaline is super hard to build or that warriors have no condition removal. Maybe Adrenaline and Conditions are such a problem because no one is willing to sacrifice healing signet to use Healing Surge or Mending.

Or maybe Healing Surge and Mending are garbage and that’s why no one uses them.

More like you’re both right, and there is our problem. Anet kept addressing healing signet without looking at the other 3 healing skills or addressing the healing signet active.

Maybe if healing signet had a decent active that people would use it would create an opportunity cost for the passive.

Just a re-post from the other healing signet thread.

Honestly, warrior has a now eternal stigma connected to them due to their admittedly overpowered stance early on in the game. Yes, they did horrendously outmatch every other class at some point early on. Is that still the case? No, far from it. If a warrior isn’t running the hambow meta in which they’re pigeonholed into, they barely stand a chance against other classes, even when fighting mediocre players. Sure, IF they have berserker stance on, which they most likely do, that’s eight full seconds of not being able to apply any condition to them whatsoever, but if you manage to simply evade them for that measly amount of time, odds are, even a player with a moderate level of skill, can burn them down immediately afterwards. Warriors don’t get to shroud themselves or blink away, they’re a class that requires you to eat damage and time your dodges. Healing signet was exactly where it should have been before its nerf, and that stands even truer now. Warriors can only hope these types of threads are not taken into consideration, but their “balance” history would say otherwise. It’s quickly becoming a case of just wanting to make warriors free kills, while other classes desperately defend their newfound buffs.

The Game Slayer.7632:

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

The average ele using their attunements will pump out 15-19k healing per 10-12 seconds with celestial gear.

Ok. Stop over inflating and over exaggerating. That’s a straight up lie.

You might be able to put out about 14k healing every 15 seconds with complete clerics gear in WvW fully buffed and ascended with around 2,000 healing power.

So stop lying. Now please. That statement is cancerous.

You’re either very in dark, or something is entirely wrong. I take these numbers from spvp. You can elect to see damage and a number of other variables. That is what the whole HuD window displays-map chat and other data on each of its tabs. Load up an ele. Either D/D or S/F or staff. 0-0-2-6-6 At the start of your first encounter hit your stop watch. When it is over look at the recorded data. This is not cleric, or with food buffs. The fact clerics can be used and food buffs can be used only increases it. Ele signet is in no need of a buff. Necro SoV is not awesome. Warrior signet does not need a nerf. Thief signet could do with some love. If I am lying, you have everything you need to confirm. The onus is not on me to prove what I know is right. It is on you to disprove what you think is wrong. The fact ele is mentioned as needing buffs when it is already vying for aphex roamer shows that this post is out of touch. No offense to someone wanting discussion, but facts are facts. Ele is currently one of thee most capable and efficient healers in game. However if you stand in a mega world boss AoE and don’t move I guess it could appear it is weak.

stop nerfing healing signet 2k14

Two things:

Elmago.2961:

Just a re-post from the other healing signet thread.

Honestly, warrior has a now eternal stigma connected to them due to their admittedly overpowered stance early on in the game. Yes, they did horrendously outmatch every other class at some point early on. Is that still the case? No, far from it.
…

It’s quickly becoming a case of just wanting to make warriors free kills, while other classes desperately defend their newfound buffs.

I am tending to agree with this.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Part of the problem based on this, is that while others have to stop defending themselves or attacking to heal, warriors can skip this step. It is an unfair and unreasonable advantage.

This is not entirely the case. I’d like to point out why HS is balanced at the moment by focusing on the nature of the other class heals and some of their respective mechanics.

Elementalists have Signet of Restoration, which actively heals as much as Healing signet, but slightly less Healing signet’s tick every time they cast a spell. They also have an affinity dedicated to team and self healing, and traits that regenerate health while they are attuned to that affinity, in addition to being high DPS.

Thieves have Hide in Shadows and Signet of Malice. Signet of malice is similar in function to restoration, with the concession that it is much weaker. However, Thieves also have the ability to untarget themselves for long periods of time. Hide in shadows is a defense, as it cures three conditions and grants stealth.

Guardians have Selfless Daring, which heals on dodge roll, as well as Shelter, which is a block and a heal.

Rangers Have Troll Unguent, which is not defensive or passive at all. That being said, they can do major damage at ranges exceeding many other classes, and have moderate access to stealth and knockback to work around this. The cast time for Unguent is 1 second, heals for 10 seconds at 850HP, and has a 25 second cooldown. This is similar to Healing signet, barely. They gain regen for 10 seconds at a time, with 15 second periods of CD in between.

Necromancers have Signet of undeath, which essentially fuels their Death Shroud while in combat, as well as Consume conditions. At basal level, Consume Conditions heals moderately well. It also functions as a defense as it removes all conditions and grants health for each one consumed.

Engineers have A.E.D. which resets any down damage and removes conditions. it has 3/4 second cast time.

Also Healing Turret.

Mesmers have everything. Mantra of Recovery is instant after precast. Ether feast is a standard heal. Mirror is a block that reflects projectiles. Signet of the ether, with three illusions, both rivals healing signet in Heal uptime and has a much better active.

Healing Signet ticks for 362 every second, can be halved by poison since it has no controllable uptime, and has a low active heal. It does it’s job, but if anything it is too weak/has no better option.

Much of the angst against HS seems to be stemming from some issue with the fact that warriors can facetank and still win. That is essentially the focus of their class. They have very little mitigation, (unless you take offense to Berserker stance, at which point I have no words for you, holding off on condition loading for 6 seconds is hard?).
They have very little invul/evasion/blocks, very little protection against condi bombs, a lack of blinks, a lack of stealths and a lack of teleports/evasion apart from their dodges, which everyone gets anyway so that is not a class advantage (granted, if they specifically trait for it, they can dodge a little more frequently, but not as frequently as someone using signet of energy so that whole vigor setup leaves a lot to be desired.)

If we had a more complex playstyle than “mow the kitten down, ch33f” , it probably wouldnt hurt a lot of player butts to lose to a player that essentially ate all of their damage for breakfast, grinned, and then proceeded to kick them down the street. But, seeing as how they -are- that simple, they -need- an anti melt mechanic that keeps them alive in fray so they can do what they do best. They have to eat damage to be effective. Gibbing their HS without considering another buff to their currently abysmal line of healing (none of their healing skills can be used effectively without combat apart from HS, btw) would reduce them to free bags.

If anything, they need a buff, community qq or not.

Hell, they’re already too watered down in high tier play because they’re predictable as hell as a class. I’d easily reroll a thief, mediguard, engie, or ele if I didn’t adore swinging a greatsword around. The problem here is with a stigma affixed to the Warrior that labels them as being too easy and too forgiving to play, when any complexity added to them that has a higher payoff would be immediately spurned by the community anyway. I’d love some complexity. I’d love being able to not have to eat damage and blink, teleport, stealth, passive fear to keep enemies at range except when I want them to be so I can whale on them. I’d love to be able to set up a “you will not enter here” line without having to use my HP as a buffer.

The community would not, though. Apparently the part that warriors need to get close to them with a “hit me” sign on their back like any standard mob AI is a good thing, but the fact that they wont melt in two hits like other mob AI is a bad thing and should be fixed immediately.

Because people will obviously continue to play warrior if they become DPS food. More than they already are, I mean.

Quite simply, people want to nerf warriors because they are "too easy and too passive" to play rather on the basis of they are "too OP". That is what is wrong with this community.

killahmayne.9518:

Quite simply, people want to nerf warriors because they are “too easy and too passive” to play rather on the basis of they are “too OP”. That is what is wrong with this community.

Passive being “march right into line of fire” mind you.

Harper.4173:

Maybe if healing signet had a decent active that people would use it would create an opportunity cost for the passive.

There have been many suggestions, but all anet did is shave a small % and left the active untouched.

Sad really :/

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Two things:

Necromancers have Signet of undeath, which essentially fuels their Death Shroud while in combat, as well as Consume conditions. At basal level, Consume Conditions heals moderately well. It also functions as a defense as it removes all conditions and grants health for each one consumed.

Consume Conditions, you are right, is amazing as a heal. All the other necro heals are pretty lack luster though, well of blood, signet of vampirism, blood fiend I think is good but only really in a MM build, and IF it freaking attacks since apparently minions don’t come with brains!

Now for the part about signet of undeath, that is just false sorry to say. We lose the signet’s ability while in deathshroud, as well as only generating 1% life force per 3 seconds. Now, I can get my deathshroud to around…15-17 thousand depending on my build so going with 17000 life force, I am generating a whopping 170 life force every 3 seconds. Now this value can change because deathshroud does scale with vitality. Also if we use the active, that puts it on a 180 cooldown, 144 if you take signet mastery and that’s taking up a utility slot we could use for better utilities such as a well, corruption, or the ever so needed stun break since necros lack stability.

Also, not trying to throw your whole post out the window by just highlighting this one point, it’s just the one that stuck with me the most since I play necro a lot.

before the last patch? yep, too strong.
now? its still strong as raw healing, but any source of poison will ruin the warrior.
the active is weak and unlike another class that could opt to wait for the poison to end before popping their heal, the warrior can’t, poison will always reduce his healing.

the adrenaline nerf fixed the stacking with Adrenal Health,
the stacking was a huge issue.

warriors are killable now.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Healing Signet ticks for 362 every second, can be halved by poison since it has no controllable uptime, and has a low active heal. It does it’s job, but if anything it is too weak/has no better option.

You keep stating this misinformation. If your going to argue the mater, it would be helpful to know the actual facts. Poison does not halve and thing. It decreases the potency by 33%.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Much of the angst against HS seems to be stemming from some issue with the fact that warriors can facetank and still win.

I cannot speak for everyone else, but my problem with the signets effect have nothing to do face tanking, or whether or not you win or lose. It has to do with the fact that it is too strong of a passive, and no awareness to is required. Allowing for more offensive actions per second, that other professions do not have. It also offers a large boost to stances as utilities, because you passively heal while not taking he damage negated by those utilities. It allows more defensive actions by not needed to take an action to heal. As well it permits full focus on escaping, and requires no effort taken from that to heal either.

NinjaEd.3946:

Harper.4173:

Maybe if healing signet had a decent active that people would use it would create an opportunity cost for the passive.

There have been many suggestions, but all anet did is shave a small % and left the active untouched.

Sad really :/

Exactly.

The passive wouldn’t be considered that much of an issue by some if the warrior actually used the skill.
In fact I’ve seen a lot of people not being against the strong passive but the passive gameplay element itself.

An active that’s worthwile would alleviate those issues. It would also give warriors active choice gameplay :

Do I want to keep my strong passive heal or do I give it up and get this other effect for a while.

There were threads – not sure if you were here back then- where they asked for suggestions.

Tons of things were suggested – and nothing happened except a nerf.

I don’t trust and don’t want Anet’s balance team to touch the skill because honestly I have 0 faith that if they do touch it now they won’t break it entirely.

And with the sad state the class is already in – I feel it’d be the final nail in the coffin.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Healing Signet ticks for 362 every second, can be halved by poison since it has no controllable uptime, and has a low active heal. It does it’s job, but if anything it is too weak/has no better option.

You keep stating this misinformation. If your going to argue the mater, it would be helpful to know the actual facts. Poison does not halve and thing. It decreases the potency by 33%.

Azure The Heartless.3261:

Much of the angst against HS seems to be stemming from some issue with the fact that warriors can facetank and still win.

I cannot speak for everyone else, but my problem with the signets effect have nothing to do face tanking, or whether or not you win or lose. It has to do with the fact that it is too strong of a passive, and no awareness to is required. Allowing for more offensive actions per second, that other professions do not have. It also offers a large boost to stances as utilities, because you passively heal while not taking he damage negated by those utilities. It allows more defensive actions by not needed to take an action to heal. As well it permits full focus on escaping, and requires no effort taken from that to heal either.

In rebuttal:

Concession on poison reduction. 33% is still a sizeable chunk to lose per tick while it is on you.

As I mentioned in the post, It seems very well that the playstyle you are describing, namely, allowing more offensive play because of less focus on managing HP pool, seems to be the precise focus and encouraged playstyle of the warrior class. Consider that Healing Surge, Mending, and Defiant stance all require active combat or incoming damage to do reliable healing. I call it “Facetanking”, because, as a warrior, dealing damage takes precedence over managing HP; but I think we are talking about the same thing. I have reached the conclusion that such a playstyle is unique and necessary for the warrior class though, and that should be upheld (That being said, such a playstyle also makes them very predictable, so I would not be against a modification that adds complexity. I am unsure Anet would get it right in a reasonable amount of time if they attempted, though.

As regards the Stances you are talking about, That’s 4 seconds of “no raw damage” and 8 seconds of “no condition damage”, both on a cooldown of a minute. That’s hardly a “large boost”, imo.

I’d also argue that awareness to the state of your HP pool is mandatory for any kind of heal that allows your hp pool to drop below full at any time.

HS is a double edged sword. It’s really strong against classes that deal small amounts of damage frequently, but weak against large amounts of damage infrequently.