Guild Wars 2

So ArenaNet keep nerfing builds to make them less efficient. Dhuumfire is getting a HUGE nerf. Not worth playing a hybrid Necromancer build anymore. With this nerfing to builds for all classes, there will be 1-2 powerful builds to use for each class. I’m pretty sure ArenaNet wanted us to play with different builds, not just one or two.

With Dhuumfire nerf they are restricting the Grandmaster trait to death shroud only, also they are reducing the active time from 4 to 3 seconds? That’s ok, because with sigils and runes you can actually make the effect of burning longer. But restricting it to Death shroud only is not fair, at all, that is limiting it to certain builds. With my Hybrid Necromancer build Dhuumfire is pretty much kitten if it only have a chance on crit to activate in Death Shroud, unless i play a Death Shroud build. That’s restricting a skill/trait to a certain build. Not good ArenaNet.

I’ve seen a lot of other nerfs for other classes, some builds just getting hammered down. It’s not ok. If you’re going to nerf, don’t nerf a specific build to make it less efficient by making a Grandmaster trait useless to my build it’s not even worth using anymore.

TL;DR: It’s ok to nerf Damage, Healing, and Armor of a build. It’s not ok to nerf a SKILL or TRAIT so it becomes totally kittening useless and i can’t have it for my build anymore.

Someone is a flavour of the month player and is mad his OP Dhuumfire is finally getting changed.

Could you imagine the state of the already OP condition necros when the power-builds are nerfed with crit damage change? Yeah, you have nothing to worry about.

But this sounds vaguely familiar of certain Warriors QQing about Unsuspecting Foe.

Changes happen, it’s what MMOs are about.

Flissy.4093:

Someone is a flavour of the month player and is mad his OP Dhuumfire is finally getting changed.

Could you imagine the state of the already OP condition necros when the power-builds are nerfed with crit damage change? Yeah, you have nothing to worry about.

But this sounds vaguely familiar of certain Warriors QQing about Unsuspecting Foe.

Changes happen, it’s what MMOs are about.

A nerf which affects ALL builds using Dhuumfire. The change to Dhuumfire is not a good change, only limiting it to Death Shroud is the worst thing they could have done.
I agree on reducing the damage on it, because the damage of Dhuumfire can be increased with Sigils/Runes and speccing more into condition damage while sacrificing power/precision.

Zoid.2568:

Flissy.4093:

Someone is a flavour of the month player and is mad his OP Dhuumfire is finally getting changed.

Could you imagine the state of the already OP condition necros when the power-builds are nerfed with crit damage change? Yeah, you have nothing to worry about.

But this sounds vaguely familiar of certain Warriors QQing about Unsuspecting Foe.

Changes happen, it’s what MMOs are about.

A nerf which affects ALL builds using Dhuumfire. The change to Dhuumfire is not a good change, only limiting it to Death Shroud is the worst thing they could have done.
I agree on reducing the damage on it, because the damage of Dhuumfire can be increased with Sigils/Runes and speccing more into condition damage while sacrificing power/precision.

ArenaNet have had balancing issues since launch, just suck it up like the rest of us had to and wait for the next MMO.

Skills get buffed, skills get nerfed. Even if its not for balance, could be good to occasionally force a rotation of the meta to keep things fresh.

Make a character of every class and you’d never lose.

Welcome to Guild Wars!

The place where OP builds get nerfed, because you guessed it…. They’re OP.

From their ashes, other OP builds rise up. Then, they too get nerfed after awhile.

It’s the circle of life!

Welcome to online gaming. Stuff you like will get nerfed. Just the way it is. I don’t like it, you don’t like it, but it’s not going to stop by posting angry threads about it. Try to put emotion aside and explain your point in a logical manner and you’re more likely to get somewhere.

Erukk.1408:

From their ashes, other OP builds rise up. Then, they too get nerfed after awhile.

That’s how OP found his Dumbfire build.

Flissy.4093:

Zoid.2568:

Flissy.4093:

Someone is a flavour of the month player and is mad his OP Dhuumfire is finally getting changed.

Could you imagine the state of the already OP condition necros when the power-builds are nerfed with crit damage change? Yeah, you have nothing to worry about.

But this sounds vaguely familiar of certain Warriors QQing about Unsuspecting Foe.

Changes happen, it’s what MMOs are about.

A nerf which affects ALL builds using Dhuumfire. The change to Dhuumfire is not a good change, only limiting it to Death Shroud is the worst thing they could have done.
I agree on reducing the damage on it, because the damage of Dhuumfire can be increased with Sigils/Runes and speccing more into condition damage while sacrificing power/precision.

ArenaNet have had balancing issues since launch, just suck it up like the rest of us had to and wait for the next MMO.

Yes, I’m waiting for ESO but that doesn’t have anything to do with the balance issues of GW2. I’m still going to play GW2, as it is B2P. I’m not going to suck up a bad change of a Grandmaster trait that is going to ruin a lot of builds.

Reduce the damage of Dhuumfire and keep it as it is. Limiting it to Death Shroud will ruin a lot of builds and make some of them useless, as all builds aren’t using Death Shroud as a main damage source but as a situational escape or situational AoE.

hellsmachine.4085:

Welcome to online gaming. Stuff you like will get nerfed. Just the way it is. I don’t like it, you don’t like it, but it’s not going to stop by posting angry threads about it. Try to put emotion aside and explain your point in a logical manner and you’re more likely to get somewhere.

I’ve already explained why the change of Dhuumfire is bad. The reduced damage of Dhuumfire is a totally ok change, understandable. The other change though, only limiting it to Death Shroud is not ok. This will cut down the possible builds with Dhuumfire, as all builds don’t use Death Shroud as a main damage source. Some builds use it for situational occasions.

No, continue nerfing builds and skills. Do never stop.

I’m dreaming of a GW2 where it actually takes a modicum of skill to kill stuff.

I’m just happy my DS bunker isn’t on their radar yet.

Heh. OP build is OP. Expect Nerf. Whine less.

to quote yourself laughing at others:

GG whine. WP op. Welcome to GW2 forums!

Elmo Benchwarmer.3025:

No, continue nerfing builds and skills. Do never stop.

I’m dreaming of a GW2 where it actually takes a modicum of skill to kill stuff.

That has nothing to do with killing of multiple builds. Nerfing is ok if it’s not limiting a certain skill/trait to a certain way of playing. I will change the name of this thread.

I agree with the OP.

STOP NERFING CURRENT BUILDS TO BEING USELESS

They have been doing this for 18 months, across all classes but some have been hit harder than others, like Ranger, Ele and now Necro, possibly Engineer & Mesmer.

Anet should try to CREATE BUILDS so all players have more choice, rather than be reduced to only 1 or 2 viable builds for each class.

Finally, its great for PvP where players can change everything on there characters in 10 minutes for free. Terrible for PvE & WvW players where changing your build can take months via timegating, 100’s of gold and 100’s of hours of playing time.

Flissy.4093:

Someone is a flavour of the month player and is mad his OP Dhuumfire is finally getting changed.

Could you imagine the state of the already OP condition necros when the power-builds are nerfed with crit damage change? Yeah, you have nothing to worry about.

But this sounds vaguely familiar of certain Warriors QQing about Unsuspecting Foe.

Changes happen, it’s what MMOs are about.

Dhuumfire change isn’t that bad, if… and that is a hugh IF, our traits and other underdeveloped aspects of the necro are reworked to bring up other necro builds.

As of yet there are currently 2 real viable builds for spvp, zero for pve, if you consider the LFG tab. and wvw also has one viable build and that current wvw build isn’t really viable just extra dps.

reworking dhuumfire would result in less builds that work. without any other changes or reconsidering recent nerfs.

also consider that crit power build is what keeps the necro standing. dhuum goes for 30 power so .. you my conclusion: you know nothing about necro’s. ^^

Zoid.2568:

So ArenaNet keep nerfing builds to make them less efficient. Dhuumfire is getting a HUGE nerf. Not worth playing a hybrid Necromancer build anymore.

the Dhuumfire change is bad because it won’t nerf the builds they actually want to nerf, it’s going to push the more varied middle ground builds into either going 100% power/DS or 100% condi buker.

It’s going to do the opposite of what they want.

Wonder when they nerf warrior survivability so much that you actually would need to use dodge sometimes.

Erukk.1408:

Welcome to Guild Wars!

The place where OP builds get nerfed, because you guessed it…. They’re OP.

From their ashes, other OP builds rise up. Then, they too get nerfed after awhile.

It’s the circle of life!

except for warriors. They somehow escape the circle of life and have Arenanet’s loved ones held hostage to prevent any new nerfs to their class.

they should have just reduced duration to 2 seconds burn instead of 4 but that deathshroud kitten is just stupid…

ofc i use deathshroud too but ill mainly want to use my staff and scepter to keep on condis..

I remember a time when Necros didn’t even have that trait and got by just fine and dandy. The change makes using DS more important as a condition necro, which has always been underwhelming on a condition build. At least they didn’t remove it completely.

Cyricus.2981:

I remember a time when Necros didn’t even have that trait and got by just fine and dandy. The change makes using DS more important as a condition necro, which has always been underwhelming on a condition build. At least they didn’t remove it completely.

All builds don’t use Death Shroud in the same way. Different builds use Death Shroud for different purposes. Changing the Grandmaster trait like this is the worst change ArenaNet have ever done to a class.

It was: Choose how you want to play.
Now it is: Play like this or suck it.

Zoid.2568:

Cyricus.2981:

I remember a time when Necros didn’t even have that trait and got by just fine and dandy. The change makes using DS more important as a condition necro, which has always been underwhelming on a condition build. At least they didn’t remove it completely.

All builds don’t use Death Shroud in the same way. Different builds use Death Shroud for different purposes. Changing the Grandmaster trait like this is the worst change ArenaNet have ever done to a class.

It was: Choose how you want to play.
Now it is: Play like this or suck it.

Well, you are right about one thing. They should have made it in DS to begin with, instead of the current path. That way, no one would be used to using it like it is currently.

Worst change ever though? Hardly.

Simply put, if you have a handful of skills, and you want to balance them, you have two choices:

1) Buff up EVERY OTHER skill… oh, and re-balance everything else in the game so that it remains at the level of “difficulty” you want.

OR

2) Nerf the handful of skills you have deemed out of balance.

100% of game developers will (and should) use option #2. Deal with it.

chemiclord.3978:

Simply put, if you have a handful of skills, and you want to balance them, you have two choices:

1) Buff up EVERY OTHER skill… oh, and re-balance everything else in the game so that it remains at the level of “difficulty” you want.

OR

2) Nerf the handful of skills you have deemed out of balance.

100% of game developers will (and should) use option #2. Deal with it.

For an example of a game that does number 1, check out Warframe.

The devs of that game are lazy and weak, so they just spend all of their time releasing stronger and stronger weapons despite the fact that all of the content in the game was trivialized months ago.

chemiclord.3978:

Simply put, if you have a handful of skills, and you want to balance them, you have two choices:

1) Buff up EVERY OTHER skill… oh, and re-balance everything else in the game so that it remains at the level of “difficulty” you want.

OR

2) Nerf the handful of skills you have deemed out of balance.

100% of game developers will (and should) use option #2. Deal with it.

All they have to do is reduce time/damage of Dhuumfire and don’t move it over to Death Shroud. Still not OP with the damage it has now, but nerfing it like that(moving it to Death Shroud) and making it useless to a lot of builds is not the right way to do it.

If you werent so selfish and realized class balance is about all 8 classes not just the one you like to play you might realize this change is actually helping build diversity. Other classes will have just a little less requirement to build their specs completely around cleansing and stun breaks so a necro doesnt just walk up to them, put on 6 condis and fearchain them to death.

Go play an ele where you NEED to spend 60 points in 2 defensive trees to even think about surviving long enough to do damage in pvp, and then complain about not being able to “play how you want”.

Zoid.2568:

chemiclord.3978:

Simply put, if you have a handful of skills, and you want to balance them, you have two choices:

1) Buff up EVERY OTHER skill… oh, and re-balance everything else in the game so that it remains at the level of “difficulty” you want.

OR

2) Nerf the handful of skills you have deemed out of balance.

100% of game developers will (and should) use option #2. Deal with it.

All they have to do is reduce time/damage of Dhuumfire and don’t move it over to Death Shroud. Still not OP with the damage it has now, but nerfing it like that(moving it to Death Shroud) and making it useless to a lot of builds is not the right way to do it.

Pretty sure his response was addressing the “OMG STOP NERFING ANYTHING EVER” argument, and not the validity of the dhuum nerf specifics.

Apathy.6430:

Zoid.2568:

chemiclord.3978:

Simply put, if you have a handful of skills, and you want to balance them, you have two choices:

1) Buff up EVERY OTHER skill… oh, and re-balance everything else in the game so that it remains at the level of “difficulty” you want.

OR

2) Nerf the handful of skills you have deemed out of balance.

100% of game developers will (and should) use option #2. Deal with it.

All they have to do is reduce time/damage of Dhuumfire and don’t move it over to Death Shroud. Still not OP with the damage it has now, but nerfing it like that(moving it to Death Shroud) and making it useless to a lot of builds is not the right way to do it.

Pretty sure his response was addressing the “OMG STOP NERFING ANYTHING EVER” argument, and not the validity of the dhuum nerf specifics.

Yes i know. But if they are going to nerf Skills/Traits that are assumed to be OP or that are OP, they will have to Nerf the Stats, Not the Effect of it. Some builds will be pretty much ruined and some builds will be affected very little.

Like with this change. Death Shroud builds will be very effective while other builds with Dhuumfire that don’t depend as much on Death shroud will be worse and not as useful. Which is a very dumb change if you want more than 1-2 useful builds for a class.

I see nothing wrong with having a given trait be build-specific. Many, if not most, of them are.

Flissy.4093:

Someone is a flavour of the month player and is mad his OP Dhuumfire is finally getting changed.

Could you imagine the state of the already OP condition necros when the power-builds are nerfed with crit damage change? Yeah, you have nothing to worry about.

But this sounds vaguely familiar of certain Warriors QQing about Unsuspecting Foe.

Changes happen, it’s what MMOs are about.

Dhuumfire is a pestilence and should never have been made, we as a necromancer community disliked it since day 1 it was introduced because we knew it would make necros OP as hell, but instead of accepting Dhuumfire is kittenty they nerf everything else that has not been OP before Dhuumfire which in return hit all the others builds that was decent enough, now they are making Dhuumfire a little more skilled to use but we will still have all the nerfed versions of all the other traits.

TL:DR Most long term necros hated this skill since it’s implementation.

chemiclord.3978:

Simply put, if you have a handful of skills, and you want to balance them, you have two choices:

1) Buff up EVERY OTHER skill… oh, and re-balance everything else in the game so that it remains at the level of “difficulty” you want.

OR

2) Nerf the handful of skills you have deemed out of balance.

100% of game developers will (and should) use option #2. Deal with it.

I don’t think it works that way … or it’s only one side of the story at least.

Zoid.2568:

Dhuumfire is getting a HUGE nerf. Not worth playing a hybrid Necromancer build anymore…
…that is limiting it to certain builds.

Oh no! Now necros have to sit in DS for a couple of seconds to proc dhuumfire! Life blast does terrible damage and never crits!
Seriously though, its not as bad as you think. The change actually favors hybrid builds. You will not be forced to play a DS build, instead life blast a couple of times and there you go.
Adapt or die.

nerfs r not fun ! if u have worked for some thing and it gets nerfed hard enough to make u go buy new junk it is not fun !
i wish nerfs where not so common. and we had more skills and viriety of traits .

Stand The Wall.6987:

Zoid.2568:

Dhuumfire is getting a HUGE nerf. Not worth playing a hybrid Necromancer build anymore…
…that is limiting it to certain builds.

Oh no! Now necros have to sit in DS for a couple of seconds to proc dhuumfire! Life blast does terrible damage and never crits!
Seriously though, its not as bad as you think. The change actually favors hybrid builds. You will not be forced to play a DS build, instead life blast a couple of times and there you go.
Adapt or die.

No it does not favor hybrid builds. The change makes build diversity extinct.
I don’t use Death Shroud (Life Blast) to do damage in my build, so no i can’t adapt to it, i have to scrap my build and make a new one.
It’s wrong to change a Trait from being a passive activation on all skills to only being for Death Shroud (Life Blast). Imagine how many builds with Dhuumfire who got screwed over and kittened in the kitten .

Stop having overly powerful builds.
Then there will be real build diversity like you see with an engineer where there are dozens of decent builds because no build is “tricked out” with silly skills.

In short, if you want the warrior or necromancer to have build diversity, you need to whack their out of whack abilities.

Simple.

Bombsaway.7198:

Stop having overly powerful builds.
Then there will be real build diversity like you see with an engineer where there are dozens of decent builds because no build is “tricked out” with silly skills.

In short, if you want the warrior or necromancer to have build diversity, you need to whack their out of whack abilities.

Simple.

I wouldn’t call all kits build diversity O.o

You have as many engineers taking less than full kits as full kits. Then there is diversity on what kits. You have 3-4 builds with kits alone. You have kits that are different for pistols and for the rifle.
You can more easily than almost any class swap out a utility (without changing a spec) for whatever you face (rocket boots, an elixir etc).

There really is no question about engineers having huge build diversity. We ooze it.
Lots of things you can say about engineers having numb fingers given all the skills we have.

Sure we have a broken mechanic (turrets) but I dare say in WvW try to figure out what an engineer is running before running into them. It is tough typically.

Its part of the Greater Theory of Balance.

Instead of buffing underperforming builds to open build diversity you simply nerf the few outliers, untill everything sucks. Then you have a fantastic build diversity! You can suck in more ways then you ever thought possible.

Dumbfire will still be very strong, only thing now is that you will have to time when you apply burning instead of mindless skill spam.

people need to stop crying because they died and talk about what there class needs to compete with ?X? on a balanced lvl .
not nerf nerf nerf till we do 1-10 damage and have pillows for swords !
i can’t see how taking away gives u more ?
adding traits and skills opens up builds !
a game that takes options or nerfs your options with out a buff is not fun. a game that gives u more options as more content comes out it gets more interesting and more fun !
keep the veterans interested with new skills and new builds and attracting more people by growing not taking away. no one wants to play a dulled down version of what first came out!

but people will all ways be negative .
it is easier to cry than be positive and come up with something new.
just as it is easier to take away. than it is easier to build !
it is like getting watered down soda lol

What they should have done, which may have still been seen as a nerf, but at least it’d make more sense, is make Dhuumfire (Dhuum Torment) 1 second, but per life blast (though, I’d prefer it be like 1-2 stacks of torment instead and maybe last a bit longer). Give people something to actually do when in DS as a condi mancer. Why front load it to a single shot? Let condi’s get a real effect out of using their DS and they could have RELATIVELY “on demand” covering, leaving time enough to cleanse. Kinda adds some twitch-play, gives meaning to being in DS for longer than 2-3 seconds. Just saying, seems like a better design DIRECTION at least.

Dhuumfire, OP where exactly?

So much brain fail in this thread, gave me a good chuckle.

Welcome to the Tyrannic System!!

Gambit.8425:

Dhuumfire, OP where exactly?

So much brain fail in this thread, gave me a good chuckle.

OP because there is really no counter to this trait, No way to stop it from being applied because you can dodge as much as you want but once we crit it will proc.
OP because its Mindless/skilless skill spam to be ‘good’

Brando.1374:

Gambit.8425:

Dhuumfire, OP where exactly?

So much brain fail in this thread, gave me a good chuckle.

OP because there is really no counter to this trait, No way to stop it from being applied because you can dodge as much as you want but once we crit it will proc.
OP because its Mindless/skilless skill spam to be ‘good’

So? A small damage spike for a conditioner in a game world where direct damage is king and condition removers are mandatory. I’m sure a power necro rather pick Close to Death as GM. Another mindless proc of sorts, 20% more damage out of thin air under 50% HP. Silly arguments IMO. Like OP wrote, it will probably only end up peg hole more into wellmancer or zoomancer – where the skilled players roam.

Please note Death Shroud builds won’t use Dhuumfire.

We take close to death as it boosts power dps more.

Dhuumfire is still for hybrids, but now you can control it better.

Brando.1374:

OP because there is really no counter to this trait, No way to stop it from being applied because you can dodge as much as you want but once we crit it will proc.
OP because its Mindless/skilless skill spam to be ‘good’

There is a counter to this trait, its called condition removal.

I bet they are working hard to fix the bugs in necro’s professions mechanics before releasing the double sigil update while looking at warrior’s weapon swap traits.

right?

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

I bet they are working hard to fix the bugs in necro’s professions mechanics before releasing the double sigil update while looking at warrior’s the weapon swap traits.

right?

Lol…