Guild Wars 2

Terravos.4059:

Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear

Actually I do it all the time, and I’m sure I’m not alone. Particularly in PvE.

But if I run into someone’s face and start meleeing them, why would they continue to range me? For that reason, I’ll never use this trait. It doesn’t make sense to me. It’d make more sense if I was ranging and being protected from range weapons, or meleeing and being protected from melee weapons, but I don’t get this combo.

Other than that, I absolutely agree. Can we have the new warrior or ele GM traits instead?

That poison grand master was a direct result of the CDI I can tell you that much.

The read the wind and striders defense were probably made in prompt of those of us asking for more gw1 ranger skills. Only none of us would have wanted them as a grandmaster trait so while they listened they implemented it wrong. Plus it it should be at least 25% chance to block to bbe worth taking and be able to use at ranger.

Terravos.4059:

Anet, I have to ask a question, Do any of the balance devs actually main a Ranger?

Wrong question to ask. I fixed that for ya. You’re welcome.

And the answer is clearly, kitten no. You’re welcome, again.

Only the NS one and BM ones I see ever getting a shot.

NS is nice because muddy terrain is more valuable on your bar than guard. Group regen+swiftness vs 2x condi removal every 20 seconds + keen edges. Possible, but meh all around probably.

BM is going to depend on how much it heals. Not valuable in WvW because your pet will be dead. Questionable overall given the shortest F2 is 25 seconds I believe? So it would need to heal for upwards of 1.5-2k to be worth it.

I’m very disappointed nothing was done (again…) to encourage Rangers to use a power build. In all reality, the only thing that interested me in the entire presentation was the Lightning Reflexes change (will it hit 5 targets now ANet?).

I’m with you to be honest. Every time ANet does something to this class I’m convinced they’ve never played it and their only exposure at all is from the PvP side of things and never from WvW or PvE.

@Striders Defense

15% chance to block ranged attacks.

Anet said they want the 6th bonus on runes to be more reliable, but they made a 30 point GRANDMASTER trait pretty unreliable.

SafiMoyo.5130:

Terravos.4059:

Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear

Actually I do it all the time, and I’m sure I’m not alone. Particularly in PvE.

But if I run into someone’s face and start meleeing them, why would they continue to range me? For that reason, I’ll never use this trait. It doesn’t make sense to me. It’d make more sense if I was ranging and being protected from range weapons, or meleeing and being protected from melee weapons, but I don’t get this combo.

Other than that, I absolutely agree. Can we have the new warrior or ele GM traits instead?

Also, this would be another RNG gamble. Do you dodge next big attack or you don’t?
Furthermore, RNG evades have been always bad. Just look at the old Jax skills (from League of Legends) and why they have changed it. It’s absolute toxic both to play with and to play against, simply because you’ll never know which of your attacks will be dodged.

I like the condition removal trait except it’s another 30 pointer and not in the power or skirmish line. The rest are ugh. Can we just get all these traits needed to make bows good built in already?

I do hope these changes were made before the Ranger CDI conveyed the community reality to the devs.

A lot of new traits seem to be designed with sPvP in mind, since they’re trying to encourage more players to join in. In terms of these new GM traits:

Read the Wind: reduces reaction time against your skills about 33% at 1200 range (estimating travel time drops from 3/4 sec to 3/8 sec, that means total time from skill activation to damage for the Longbow 1 drops from 1.5 sec to just over 1 sec). Given that people are constantly moving in sPvP, piercing shots are nearly impossible to line up consistently, so this is definitely a nice alternative.

Strider’s Defense: 1h sword and greatsword are decently common amongst sPvP rangers, so being able to melee and block incoming damage from other enemies at range will be useful.

Poison Master: Encourages the use of poison. This means very little in PvE, but poison reduces all healing and regen by 33%, making it great for sPvP and WvW.

Survival of the Fittest: You’re concerned that Spirit rangers and Shout rangers won’t use it?? Maybe that’s because it’s meant to improve Survival skills…

Invigorating Bond: ANet has been trying to improve the functionality and diversity of support builds for several months. This seems like another addition for that purpose. Without numbers, I can’t say more.

Apathetic Wombat.2176:

A lot of new traits seem to be designed with sPvP in mind, since they’re trying to encourage more players to join in. In terms of these new GM traits:

Read the Wind: reduces reaction time against your skills about 33% at 1200 range (estimating travel time drops from 3/4 sec to 3/8 sec, that means total time from skill activation to damage for the Longbow 1 drops from 1.5 sec to just over 1 sec). Given that people are constantly moving in sPvP, piercing shots are nearly impossible to line up consistently, so this is definitely a nice alternative.

Strider’s Defense: 1h sword and greatsword are decently common amongst sPvP rangers, so being able to melee and block incoming damage from other enemies at range will be useful.

Poison Master: Encourages the use of poison. This means very little in PvE, but poison reduces all healing and regen by 33%, making it great for sPvP and WvW.

Survival of the Fittest: You’re concerned that Spirit rangers and Shout rangers won’t use it?? Maybe that’s because it’s meant to improve Survival skills…

Invigorating Bond: ANet has been trying to improve the functionality and diversity of support builds for several months. This seems like another addition for that purpose. Without numbers, I can’t say more.

Where are you getting your longbow numbers? From damage to damage, longbow right now is 1 second total time. Projectile speed wouldn’t have any impact on DPS. Piercing Arrows is also beneficial because it ensures you’ll hit what you’re aiming at instead of being body blocked. But even if you didn’t run it, you’d alsom certainly prefer spotter don’t you think?

As for survival of the fittest, the issue is there’s little reason to go NS at all unless you plan to run spirits or shouts. There’s nothing in the other traits to help with survival skills. This trait should be in WS (the only other trait to impact survival skills) or Marks (because it at least has keen edges for internal synergy within the same trait line).

As for poison, it’s not encouraging their use in any way. Poison would have always been used regardless of this trait or if you spec’d condi or not for the healing debuff alone. The issue is, for a GM trait, it’s only increasing damage by a single bleed tick.

This is the problem I think a lot of people are having… while some of these traits aren’t outright awful, their placement in either the tree they’re in or the rank they’re at, makes them useless.

It’s just like they never even looked at the traits.

1. There are 5 (Grand)Master Traits in Marksmanship you would want to take as Bow-Ranger: Remorseless, Eagle Eye, Piercing Arrows, Spotter and Signet of the Beastmaster if you want to squeeze all damage out of the bows.
2. Many of them are too weak:
   1. Eagle Eye: Why does it only apply to the LB?
   2. Remorseless: Simply too weak to be picked over the other skills
   3. Singet of the Beastmaster: Why do I have to use this to get the effects from my signets?
3. Why are they adding a 6. trait you’re supposed to use as Bow-Ranger?
   Why does this not apply to the shortbow?

This got brought up in the Ranger CDI already. Seems like they haven’t read the posts mentioning this.

Atherakhia.4086:

Only the NS one and BM ones I see ever getting a shot.

NS is nice because muddy terrain is more valuable on your bar than guard. Group regen+swiftness vs 2x condi removal every 20 seconds + keen edges. Possible, but meh all around probably.

BM is going to depend on how much it heals. Not valuable in WvW because your pet will be dead. Questionable overall given the shortest F2 is 25 seconds I believe? So it would need to heal for upwards of 1.5-2k to be worth it.

I’m very disappointed nothing was done (again…) to encourage Rangers to use a power build. In all reality, the only thing that interested me in the entire presentation was the Lightning Reflexes change (will it hit 5 targets now ANet?).

I’m with you to be honest. Every time ANet does something to this class I’m convinced they’ve never played it and their only exposure at all is from the PvP side of things and never from WvW or PvE.

Muddy Terrain would be the Equiv of the passive on SoR…I’d still rather have SoR as its a full Condition Removal

There is no way The BM one will heal for more then 500, if it heals for 1k-2k it instantly makes Birds Overpowered

Apathetic Wombat.2176:

A lot of new traits seem to be designed with sPvP in mind, since they’re trying to encourage more players to join in. In terms of these new GM traits:

Read the Wind: reduces reaction time against your skills about 33% at 1200 range (estimating travel time drops from 3/4 sec to 3/8 sec, that means total time from skill activation to damage for the Longbow 1 drops from 1.5 sec to just over 1 sec). Given that people are constantly moving in sPvP, piercing shots are nearly impossible to line up consistently, so this is definitely a nice alternative.

Strider’s Defense: 1h sword and greatsword are decently common amongst sPvP rangers, so being able to melee and block incoming damage from other enemies at range will be useful.

Poison Master: Encourages the use of poison. This means very little in PvE, but poison reduces all healing and regen by 33%, making it great for sPvP and WvW.

Survival of the Fittest: You’re concerned that Spirit rangers and Shout rangers won’t use it?? Maybe that’s because it’s meant to improve Survival skills…

Invigorating Bond: ANet has been trying to improve the functionality and diversity of support builds for several months. This seems like another addition for that purpose. Without numbers, I can’t say more.

1. The Few people who run longbow in SPvP will use pierce arrows over that ability, and if they didn’t…They’d most certainly use SoB or Spotters over it.

2. Very few people run Greatsword in SPvP, If you’re using GS….MoC is way way better..The only people who use Sword in SPvP, are Trap Builds/Spirit Builds/BM Bunker builds, none who will use this trait. There is no other Build you’d go with on this.

3. Poison is nothing more then a Heal Debuff, and condition coverage and some damage..and there is no way in hell anyone will use that trait over Empathetic Bond.

4. That’s great..problem is there is no actual decent Build you can go with Survival Skills that wouldn’t be better then the Current builds with Spirits/Shouts

5. Either it’ll be insanely overpowered (1k-2k heal) or it’ll be mediocre (500 point heal)

From the Ranger forum, a recap of my thoughts

@Read the Winds. My ranger is now considering to finally put his longbow string to good use and using it to kill himself.
@Striders Defense. It looks like it could be good, and anyone who doesn’t know ranger or the game might see it as much. But it isn’t for a couple reasons.

1. It is not clear. It is very vague. “When in melee” Does this mean in melee range? If so, they will switch to a melee weapon if they have it. If they don’t or can’t, see #2. Also it is useless when you get kited [no matter how shortly] (completely negating the purpose?). I really hope this is not what they meant.
If they mean when wielding a melee weapon, it is a bit better, but they still have the melee swap thing.
And this assumes that the enemy ranges at all considering melee tends to be more damaging power wise. Maybe it would be nice against scepter necromancers? (Who can swap to anything to bypass its effects)
2. It won’t affect AoEs, don’t even pretend it will. Most Ranged sets have aoes, so it isn’t even a full 15% defense bonus.
3. It competes with traps.
4. Almost forgot, all ranger melee weapons are power based. Power isn’t necessarily all bad, but we all know that part of it is baked into out pet which at this point still doesn’t scale, and might not for months if ever.

@Poison Master – Finally a trait I might consider, but then I’d have to take the new GM trait in NM as well to get my condition clear. In other words, pvp-wise, this trait is very niche. In pve, its poison, thus useless.

@Survival of the Fittest – Um, did this trait get lost? 30 points to snag it, and maybe 10 point to snag the related cooldown. I can see myself using it though. It is probably the best thing to come out of this. The reason its acceptable is because the utility it forces you to take is liked in pvp anyway. In other words, because it pigeonholes us into something we are already pushed towards in the first place, its ok…

@Invigorating Bond – I exaggerated in the ranger forum, but I would not take this. You arn’t just losing out on other traits, but 300 stats go to the pet instead of you. The heal would have to be impressive for me to consider it, considering it limits your pet choices to ones with short f2 cooldowns.

Tl;dr These traits force us to take things if we want them and they do not add anything special, nor can most of them compete with current options (they don’t need to be better, but these are so niche they (-nm) are obviously worse)

NM one looks nice, I can actually see how that could be used in real builds.

MS looks nice but since its another LB trait in MS… lol.

Skirm looks meh.

WS looks like a cool master trait, but a GM against EB and BS? Lol ok.

BM is hard to judge without numbers, but my gut feeling is it will be a disappointment.

Overall.. they given x/x/30/30/x builds more possibilities with the new NM trait (even though they are already some of the best builds ranger have), but not really done anything to help anyone else. Sounds… about what I would have expected.

Terravos.4059:

Atherakhia.4086:

Only the NS one and BM ones I see ever getting a shot.

NS is nice because muddy terrain is more valuable on your bar than guard. Group regen+swiftness vs 2x condi removal every 20 seconds + keen edges. Possible, but meh all around probably.

BM is going to depend on how much it heals. Not valuable in WvW because your pet will be dead. Questionable overall given the shortest F2 is 25 seconds I believe? So it would need to heal for upwards of 1.5-2k to be worth it.

I’m very disappointed nothing was done (again…) to encourage Rangers to use a power build. In all reality, the only thing that interested me in the entire presentation was the Lightning Reflexes change (will it hit 5 targets now ANet?).

I’m with you to be honest. Every time ANet does something to this class I’m convinced they’ve never played it and their only exposure at all is from the PvP side of things and never from WvW or PvE.

Muddy Terrain would be the Equiv of the passive on SoR…I’d still rather have SoR as its a full Condition Removal

There is no way The BM one will heal for more then 500, if it heals for 1k-2k it instantly makes Birds Overpowered

Yea, I had completely forgotten about the eagles. I’ve only ever used crow and owl to be honest. I was assuming 20 seconds was the fastest cooldown on pet abilities. With 20 seconds you’re getting close to shouts with vigorous shouts, which is the 1.5k range so it seemed reasonable to assume this trait would heal for the same.

And you’re right again with SoR… back to crying internally I guess.

Yeah, easy easy easy to see these were all made with PVP/WVW in mind. There’s no way these incredibly underthought grandmaster traits were even considered with anything having to with PVE or dungeons. More I read information from the Devs the more I am convinced they do not want me to play a Ranger.

Terravos.4059:

Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense – You have a 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.

Again, Who is going to use this trait? Trappers won’t use it because they’re already investing points into making traps better, Interrupt Builds grab MoC, Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear

I assume you meant this towards WVW and PVP? Because I used to zerker melee on my Ranger all the time in PVE/Dungeons.

thefantasticg.3984:

Yeah, easy easy easy to see these were all made with PVP/WVW in mind. There’s no way these incredibly underthought grandmaster traits were even considered with anything having to with PVE or dungeons. More I read information from the Devs the more I am convinced they do not want me to play a Ranger.

Terravos.4059:

Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense – You have a 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.

Again, Who is going to use this trait? Trappers won’t use it because they’re already investing points into making traps better, Interrupt Builds grab MoC, Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear

I assume you meant this towards WVW and PVP? Because I used to zerker melee on my Ranger all the time in PVE/Dungeons.

Yes i’m meaning towards PvP in general, because you can be successful being completely traitless in PvE in this game.

Atherakhia.4086:

Where are you getting your longbow numbers? From damage to damage, longbow right now is 1 second total time. Projectile speed wouldn’t have any impact on DPS. Piercing Arrows is also beneficial because it ensures you’ll hit what you’re aiming at instead of being body blocked. But even if you didn’t run it, you’d alsom certainly prefer spotter don’t you think?

As for survival of the fittest, the issue is there’s little reason to go NS at all unless you plan to run spirits or shouts. There’s nothing in the other traits to help with survival skills…

As for poison, it’s not encouraging their use in any way. Poison would have always been used regardless of this trait or if you spec’d condi or not for the healing debuff alone. The issue is, for a GM trait, it’s only increasing damage by a single bleed tick.

Longbow 1 channel is 3/4 seconds. Travel time to target at 1200 range is about 3/4 seconds (no, I haven’t measured it with a stopwatch, but it’s certainly not 1/4 second). And like I said, you rarely line up targets in sPvP, so being blocked isn’t an issue that often. Spotter is nice if you have specific tPvP strategies, but otherwise self-reliance is incredibly valuable.

You’re certainly right about going into NS for Spirits and Shouts, but this trait opens up a new option for going into that line. Gaining fury doesn’t seem intuitive, but when you consider half of vitality builds are also based on power, a free 20% chance to crit can do wonders. Add that on top of Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes, and Muddy Terrain, and you gain some decent utility combinations. Presumably this trait also works in combination with Survival skills that trigger automatically, such as activating Sharpening Stone from the Keen Edge trait in Marksmanship.

As for poison, I guess this was based off of some forum discussion.

I’m not saying these new traits are the greatest things ever, but in every MMO I play it seems that most players are unwilling to experiment with new builds and play styles. People assume that unless a new addition is obviously overpowered, it must be complete garbage.

Terravos.4059:

thefantasticg.3984:

Yeah, easy easy easy to see these were all made with PVP/WVW in mind. There’s no way these incredibly underthought grandmaster traits were even considered with anything having to with PVE or dungeons. More I read information from the Devs the more I am convinced they do not want me to play a Ranger.

Terravos.4059:

Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense – You have a 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.

Again, Who is going to use this trait? Trappers won’t use it because they’re already investing points into making traps better, Interrupt Builds grab MoC, Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear

I assume you meant this towards WVW and PVP? Because I used to zerker melee on my Ranger all the time in PVE/Dungeons.

Yes i’m meaning towards PvP in general, because you can be successful being completely traitless in PvE in this game.

Not in Dungeons. Not to mention this pvp bullchit is effing up my PVE/Dungeon game.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQRAnf8YjEq0vaLL2sw1agYVQQtHcy8Yy9w/dCAlMqmA-z0BBoODimqI0kHBKTqIasFTFRjVJjIqWpEjUALKNC-w

This is the only build I could come up with that would do reasonably well with the new NM Trait..

and i still think its weaker then both the Shout Build and the BM Bunker Ranger build.

thefantasticg.3984:

Terravos.4059:

thefantasticg.3984:

Yeah, easy easy easy to see these were all made with PVP/WVW in mind. There’s no way these incredibly underthought grandmaster traits were even considered with anything having to with PVE or dungeons. More I read information from the Devs the more I am convinced they do not want me to play a Ranger.

Terravos.4059:

Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense – You have a 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.

Again, Who is going to use this trait? Trappers won’t use it because they’re already investing points into making traps better, Interrupt Builds grab MoC, Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear

I assume you meant this towards WVW and PVP? Because I used to zerker melee on my Ranger all the time in PVE/Dungeons.

Yes i’m meaning towards PvP in general, because you can be successful being completely traitless in PvE in this game.

Not in Dungeons. Not to mention this pvp bullchit is effing up my PVE/Dungeon game.

As long as the dungeon isn’t arah, you’ll probably be able run the dungeon naked.

We can rant about the devs all day long but in the end they really have to answer the question if they ever have looked into the traits. That’s the 6. trait you want to use as LB ranger. They can’t be serious about that.

I’m really pis… unpleased right now, because this 6. trait looks like a mistake to me, one person alone would do. The next personwould notice this misery and fixes it. But there are 300 ppl over there, and atleast 30 should have looked at the traits. And noone of them realized that 6 traits you would want to use in one traitline as LB ranger are a little bit too much.

Apathetic Wombat.2176:

Atherakhia.4086:

Where are you getting your longbow numbers? From damage to damage, longbow right now is 1 second total time. Projectile speed wouldn’t have any impact on DPS. Piercing Arrows is also beneficial because it ensures you’ll hit what you’re aiming at instead of being body blocked. But even if you didn’t run it, you’d alsom certainly prefer spotter don’t you think?

As for survival of the fittest, the issue is there’s little reason to go NS at all unless you plan to run spirits or shouts. There’s nothing in the other traits to help with survival skills…

As for poison, it’s not encouraging their use in any way. Poison would have always been used regardless of this trait or if you spec’d condi or not for the healing debuff alone. The issue is, for a GM trait, it’s only increasing damage by a single bleed tick.

Longbow 1 channel is 3/4 seconds. Travel time to target at 1200 range is about 3/4 seconds (no, I haven’t measured it with a stopwatch, but it’s certainly not 1/4 second). And like I said, you rarely line up targets in sPvP, so being blocked isn’t an issue that often. Spotter is nice if you have specific tPvP strategies, but otherwise self-reliance is incredibly valuable.

You’re certainly right about going into NS for Spirits and Shouts, but this trait opens up a new option for going into that line. Gaining fury doesn’t seem intuitive, but when you consider half of vitality builds are also based on power, a free 20% chance to crit can do wonders. Add that on top of Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes, and Muddy Terrain, and you gain some decent utility combinations. Presumably this trait also works in combination with Survival skills that trigger automatically, such as activating Sharpening Stone from the Keen Edge trait in Marksmanship.

As for poison, I guess this was based off of some forum discussion.

I’m not saying these new traits are the greatest things ever, but in every MMO I play it seems that most players are unwilling to experiment with new builds and play styles. People assume that unless a new addition is obviously overpowered, it must be complete garbage.

I measured it months ago with a stop watch to build my DPS planner for the Ranger class. Like I said, damage to damage time with the longbow right now is 1 second regardless of range. 3/4 with a 1/4 after cast. If the trait adjusted the 3/4 time in some fashion it would be amazing, but it’s simply a projectile speed improvement.

And yea, I imagine a 10/0/30/30/0 build to be the new goto build for most.

Atherakhia.4086:

Apathetic Wombat.2176:

Atherakhia.4086:

Where are you getting your longbow numbers? From damage to damage, longbow right now is 1 second total time. Projectile speed wouldn’t have any impact on DPS. Piercing Arrows is also beneficial because it ensures you’ll hit what you’re aiming at instead of being body blocked. But even if you didn’t run it, you’d alsom certainly prefer spotter don’t you think?

As for survival of the fittest, the issue is there’s little reason to go NS at all unless you plan to run spirits or shouts. There’s nothing in the other traits to help with survival skills…

As for poison, it’s not encouraging their use in any way. Poison would have always been used regardless of this trait or if you spec’d condi or not for the healing debuff alone. The issue is, for a GM trait, it’s only increasing damage by a single bleed tick.

Longbow 1 channel is 3/4 seconds. Travel time to target at 1200 range is about 3/4 seconds (no, I haven’t measured it with a stopwatch, but it’s certainly not 1/4 second). And like I said, you rarely line up targets in sPvP, so being blocked isn’t an issue that often. Spotter is nice if you have specific tPvP strategies, but otherwise self-reliance is incredibly valuable.

You’re certainly right about going into NS for Spirits and Shouts, but this trait opens up a new option for going into that line. Gaining fury doesn’t seem intuitive, but when you consider half of vitality builds are also based on power, a free 20% chance to crit can do wonders. Add that on top of Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes, and Muddy Terrain, and you gain some decent utility combinations. Presumably this trait also works in combination with Survival skills that trigger automatically, such as activating Sharpening Stone from the Keen Edge trait in Marksmanship.

As for poison, I guess this was based off of some forum discussion.

I’m not saying these new traits are the greatest things ever, but in every MMO I play it seems that most players are unwilling to experiment with new builds and play styles. People assume that unless a new addition is obviously overpowered, it must be complete garbage.

I measured it months ago with a stop watch to build my DPS planner for the Ranger class. Like I said, damage to damage time with the longbow right now is 1 second regardless of range. 3/4 with a 1/4 after cast. If the trait adjusted the 3/4 time in some fashion it would be amazing, but it’s simply a projectile speed improvement.

And yea, I imagine a 10/0/30/30/0 build to be the new goto build for most.

……………… That can’t possibly be true…… I’d be hard-pressed to take that as a minor trait if it really improves an attack from 1.25-1.75 seconds to 1.125-1.375 seconds on a single weapon.

SafiMoyo.5130:

Atherakhia.4086:

Apathetic Wombat.2176:

Atherakhia.4086:

Where are you getting your longbow numbers? From damage to damage, longbow right now is 1 second total time. Projectile speed wouldn’t have any impact on DPS. Piercing Arrows is also beneficial because it ensures you’ll hit what you’re aiming at instead of being body blocked. But even if you didn’t run it, you’d alsom certainly prefer spotter don’t you think?

As for survival of the fittest, the issue is there’s little reason to go NS at all unless you plan to run spirits or shouts. There’s nothing in the other traits to help with survival skills…

As for poison, it’s not encouraging their use in any way. Poison would have always been used regardless of this trait or if you spec’d condi or not for the healing debuff alone. The issue is, for a GM trait, it’s only increasing damage by a single bleed tick.

Longbow 1 channel is 3/4 seconds. Travel time to target at 1200 range is about 3/4 seconds (no, I haven’t measured it with a stopwatch, but it’s certainly not 1/4 second). And like I said, you rarely line up targets in sPvP, so being blocked isn’t an issue that often. Spotter is nice if you have specific tPvP strategies, but otherwise self-reliance is incredibly valuable.

You’re certainly right about going into NS for Spirits and Shouts, but this trait opens up a new option for going into that line. Gaining fury doesn’t seem intuitive, but when you consider half of vitality builds are also based on power, a free 20% chance to crit can do wonders. Add that on top of Quickening Zephyr, Lightning Reflexes, and Muddy Terrain, and you gain some decent utility combinations. Presumably this trait also works in combination with Survival skills that trigger automatically, such as activating Sharpening Stone from the Keen Edge trait in Marksmanship.

As for poison, I guess this was based off of some forum discussion.

I’m not saying these new traits are the greatest things ever, but in every MMO I play it seems that most players are unwilling to experiment with new builds and play styles. People assume that unless a new addition is obviously overpowered, it must be complete garbage.

I measured it months ago with a stop watch to build my DPS planner for the Ranger class. Like I said, damage to damage time with the longbow right now is 1 second regardless of range. 3/4 with a 1/4 after cast. If the trait adjusted the 3/4 time in some fashion it would be amazing, but it’s simply a projectile speed improvement.

And yea, I imagine a 10/0/30/30/0 build to be the new goto build for most.

……………… That can’t possibly be true…… I’d be hard-pressed to take that as a minor trait if it really improves an attack from 1.25-1.75 seconds to 1.125-1.375 seconds on a single weapon.

Well if you want to get REALLY technical…

It’s projectile speed for a single weapon. But on that weapon, the only skill that really benefits from it at all is the #1 skill. And worse still, you’d only really ‘need’ the trait at the 900-1500 range anyway.

So we now have a 6th Longbow trait that affects a single skill for a single weapon at only its max range, and only 2 slots available to put them in. Plus another one in another tree.

I see what you’re saying about damage to damage time. Yes, time between one attacking hitting and the next one hitting is probably one second. I’m saying that the time from activating a skill to the attack landing decreases. You can start channeling the next skill as the current projectile flies. This skill isn’t meant to increase DPS; it makes it harder to dodge. However, also consider the likelihood of a target moving to a lower damage tier on your Longbow 1 decreases.

Safi, that was only one example. This trait should affect all of the projectiles from your longbow, including every single shot fired during Longbow 2.

And here’s a theoretical sPvP build I’d be willing to try with the new Survival trait: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQJATRjEqUyaLLesQ1agYpQQ9ppgTWy9w/oCAp8kC0WF-ToAA1CoIKSVkrITRyisFNEZJC

don’t use Muddy Terrain, it is in no way equiv to SoR.

Theoretical. I usually plan builds without condi removal to test a bunch of things at once because I know at least one of them will get swapped out for personal survivability.

I like GW2, but many of the things in game seemed trollish in nature. All games have bugs or things that need fixing. Honest mistakes. I have never experienced a game that seems to troll the players like GW2 does at times.

Most will recall the old Beavis and Butthead and the constant snickering over things that they thought funny. After watching my first ever twitch feed today, many things became much more clear and made more sense. I can honestly see them doing the B+B snicker after implementing something new.

It is painfully obvious what classes they play…or don’t play. It seems like GW2 has been set up as their own little playground. The twitch feed displayed an obvious lack of professionalism that left me frankly a little surprised.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I’m really pis… unpleased right now, because this 6. trait looks like a mistake to me, one person alone would do. The next personwould notice this misery and fixes it. But there are 300 ppl over there, and atleast 30 should have looked at the traits. And noone of them realized that 6 traits you would want to use in one traitline as LB ranger are a little bit too much.

This isn’t a mistake. It forces you to choose certain trade-offs when planning your build. This allows for more variation in builds you see in the game, which is something all MMO designers strive for. Not only that, but it’s significantly easier to balance within the profession and against other professions. For example, it’s easier to estimate a balance between range increase and additional precision than it is to estimate a balance between range increase PLUS precision and something else. Along with this, it’s easier to balance against other classes if they know you are always limited to 2 of the 6 longbow skills instead of being able to grab all 6 and superpower your 1.5k range arrows.

I was going to bash the guardian ones a bit more but then I decided to get curious.

You have my condolences.

Wilderness Survival might be worth a spin, but the rest do not address what this class lacks.

Apathetic Wombat.2176:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

I’m really pis… unpleased right now, because this 6. trait looks like a mistake to me, one person alone would do. The next personwould notice this misery and fixes it. But there are 300 ppl over there, and atleast 30 should have looked at the traits. And noone of them realized that 6 traits you would want to use in one traitline as LB ranger are a little bit too much.

This isn’t a mistake. It forces you to choose certain trade-offs when planning your build. This allows for more variation in builds you see in the game, which is something all MMO designers strive for. Not only that, but it’s significantly easier to balance within the profession and against other professions. For example, it’s easier to estimate a balance between range increase and additional precision than it is to estimate a balance between range increase PLUS precision and something else. Along with this, it’s easier to balance against other classes if they know you are always limited to 2 of the 6 longbow skills instead of being able to grab all 6 and superpower your 1.5k range arrows.

As you may have read already, the new trait has very little impact on the longbow and 3 of the 5 other traits are highly more desireable as LB ranger.
Furthermore, the fact that this weapon misses more often than it hits looks like a bug to me and not like a design decision.

Apathetic Wombat.2176:

I see what you’re saying about damage to damage time. Yes, time between one attacking hitting and the next one hitting is probably one second. I’m saying that the time from activating a skill to the attack landing decreases. You can start channeling the next skill as the current projectile flies. This skill isn’t meant to increase DPS; it makes it harder to dodge. However, also consider the likelihood of a target moving to a lower damage tier on your Longbow 1 decreases.

Safi, that was only one example. This trait should affect all of the projectiles from your longbow, including every single shot fired during Longbow 2.

And here’s a theoretical sPvP build I’d be willing to try with the new Survival trait: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vMAQJATRjEqUyaLLesQ1agYpQQ9ppgTWy9w/oCAp8kC0WF-ToAA1CoIKSVkrITRyisFNEZJC

It makes it harder to dodge, yes. But it’s only really an issue at the very max ranger. Mid range on the bow and you’re not really running into side stepping issues. And yea, with the projectile speed means damage is dealt faster. But that also means that faster damage has a larger gap between damage and it’s still a net gain of 0 with damage being exactly 1 second apart.

ArchonWing.9480:

I was going to bash the guardian ones a bit more but then I decided to get curious.

You have my condolences.

Wilderness Survival might be worth a spin, but the rest do not address what this class lacks.

the NM one is exactly what rangers needed, in the very first place, except a working pet.
Active condi removal, on short CD’s. We needed that, badly.
Immob cleanse on one of our GTFO buttons . we needed that, badly.

There were some positive buffs here, some meh, some zomg wtf? but in the end, what will kill this class rides on the “bug” fixes. Which usually translates to “NERF NERF NERF” when it comes to this class. In over one year, only 3 out of a 100 bugfixes have been anything but negative.

The only way the NM one will be better then other Condition Builds is if they made something like Heal as One a Survival Skill…that would actually probably make the ability fairly good.

Terravos.4059:

The only way the NM one will be better then other Condition Builds is if they made something like Heal as One a Survival Skill…that would actually probably make the ability fairly good.

i think that was brought up by allie during the CDI. Who cares, too late for that to be changed/implemented now anyways.

I do not see much of a roamers/pvp utility in the new skills, i agree with that. However support for WvW, i see lots of possibilities with the new stuff. Now all i need to find out, is how this all scales with the rune and sigil change. And also, to which degree they fixed the pet

Prysin.8542:

Terravos.4059:

The only way the NM one will be better then other Condition Builds is if they made something like Heal as One a Survival Skill…that would actually probably make the ability fairly good.

i think that was brought up by allie during the CDI. Who cares, too late for that to be changed/implemented now anyways.

I do not see much of a roamers/pvp utility in the new skills, i agree with that. However support for WvW, i see lots of possibilities with the new stuff. Now all i need to find out, is how this all scales with the rune and sigil change. And also, to which degree they fixed the pet

Its adding basically another Condition Based “Bunker” build for us… That isn’t any better in terms of utility or solo power…It does nothing for the Ranger Problems.

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the Poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim. Or even apply Cripple for the duration of the Poison. This would honestly be the only reason to gear towards this trait.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim.

I was kind of hoping we were gonna get a trait that let us deal more damage (5-10%?) to poisoned foes…

Anything damage wise would never be taken over EB most likely, The only thing that’s going to replace EB on a Ranger is something utility wise.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim.

Should have also reduced the healing efficacy by 50% instead of 33% would have worked as well. This was actually suggested in the CDI as well from someone.

Terravos.4059:

Anything damage wise would never be taken over EB most likely, The only thing that’s going to replace EB on a Ranger is something utility wise.

If the NS trait was in skirmishing I’d probably have ran 30/30/10 instead of 30/10/30/0/0 as lb+gs. While not ideal, qz+lr+muddy would have been good.

Atherakhia.4086:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim.

Should have also reduced the healing efficacy by 50% instead of 33% would have worked as well. This was actually suggested in the CDI as well from someone.

Same like the idea of adding to a trait 50% Physical Projectile Finisher (instead of just 20%). But I doubt it would happen.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Atherakhia.4086:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim.

Should have also reduced the healing efficacy by 50% instead of 33% would have worked as well. This was actually suggested in the CDI as well from someone.

Same like the idea of adding to a trait 50% Physical Projectile Finisher (instead of just 20%). But I doubt it would happen.

Would depend where they attached that. If it were on Read the Wind, I’d still not take it But if it were on quick draw or eagle eye etc it would be great.

at least without skill changes on longbow and longsword they will stay bad weapons…
even with some trait balance or new traits…
i also hope thats not all what is going on at the ranger profession…

also theres nothing about the trapper traits
shouts, sigils and heal actually, i hope for more view on the ranger problems Oo

Atherakhia.4086:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim.

Should have also reduced the healing efficacy by 50% instead of 33% would have worked as well. This was actually suggested in the CDI as well from someone.

was said by allie. I remember that one since i +1 atleast 2 times.

Prysin.8542:

Atherakhia.4086:

HHR LostProphet.4801:

Poison Master would be far better if it would also apply Weakness for the duration of the poison. And it would match the “Poison Master” idea, since the most poisons tend to paralyze the victim.

Should have also reduced the healing efficacy by 50% instead of 33% would have worked as well. This was actually suggested in the CDI as well from someone.

was said by allie. I remember that one since i +1 atleast 2 times.

Then I immediately retract my statement and declare this a terrible idea!

Regarding Read the Wind:

Make Read the Wind standard, make Piercing Arrows standard, and merge Eagle Eye and Spotter. Then, replace Read the Wind with Close Quarters: your Longbow auto attack always hits for maximum range co-efficient. Make Remorseless a Master Trait, and replace it with a new Grandmaster trait.

HHR LostProphet.4801:

thefantasticg.3984:

Terravos.4059:

thefantasticg.3984:

Yeah, easy easy easy to see these were all made with PVP/WVW in mind. There’s no way these incredibly underthought grandmaster traits were even considered with anything having to with PVE or dungeons. More I read information from the Devs the more I am convinced they do not want me to play a Ranger.

Terravos.4059:

Skirmishing: Strider’s Defense – You have a 15% chance to block ranged attacks while in melee.

Again, Who is going to use this trait? Trappers won’t use it because they’re already investing points into making traps better, Interrupt Builds grab MoC, Berserker Rangers won’t use it because no one sane runs a bloody melee weapon with berserker gear

I assume you meant this towards WVW and PVP? Because I used to zerker melee on my Ranger all the time in PVE/Dungeons.

Yes i’m meaning towards PvP in general, because you can be successful being completely traitless in PvE in this game.

Not in Dungeons. Not to mention this pvp bullchit is effing up my PVE/Dungeon game.

As long as the dungeon isn’t arah, you’ll probably be able run the dungeon naked.

We can rant about the devs all day long but in the end they really have to answer the question if they ever have looked into the traits. That’s the 6. trait you want to use as LB ranger. They can’t be serious about that.

I’m really pis… unpleased right now, because this 6. trait looks like a mistake to me, one person alone would do. The next personwould notice this misery and fixes it. But there are 300 ppl over there, and atleast 30 should have looked at the traits. And noone of them realized that 6 traits you would want to use in one traitline as LB ranger are a little bit too much.

That’s not the point of PvE. The point of PvE is maximizing rewards in a time window so you can grind out legendaries/get skins/whatever.

You can also run naked in any spvp match and may end up winning because someone carried you or the other players were equally dumb.

Hell, in WvW if I zerg I can pretty much run any setup. Don’t you see all the berk longbow rangers who are a waste of space, where an ele or engineer or necromancer would do much better as ranged assailants.

I dont know too much about pve and pvp but in wvw this traits are mehh…