Guild Wars 2

Cynz.9437:

i don’t want ele nerfs but on the other hand ele is only class that literary can’t be stomped unless you wait forever

Which is 4 seconds, give or take.

Carighan.6758:

Cynz.9437:

i don’t want ele nerfs but on the other hand ele is only class that literary can’t be stomped unless you wait forever

Which is 4 seconds, give or take.

it is enough to kitten up entire team

Carighan.6758:

Because not all #2 are exclusively about preventing a stomp. If that were the sole reason they exist they’d simply do that. “Prevent a stomp”. Occam’s razor, there’s no reason to design it any further.

But some cause damage, some allow you to move, some stealth you, some pull targets away from other targets, some stun, etc. Those all do things. As in, they can do things apart from preventing a stomp.

I mean if we were to update all #2 to always prevent a stomp, then the ones which have side effects of indirect impact would automatically be overpowered. So would we remove those? Like Engineers or Rangers preventing stomps on someone else, something Mesmers cannot do?

And so on. I really feel that the focus on preventing a stomp is wrong, rather I’d improve the power of the #2 moves so each feels really strong at what it does. The Engineer #2 for example I’d replace with a harpoon gun firing the line, 1500 range, cannot be blocked or prevented. The ability to pull a very distant enemy close to my group (which pretty much guarantees the rally) seems quite interesting.

I’m not sure if you’re trying to say that the 200 damage + pull on eng makes up for the single target cc rubbish downed state? If so I disagree. What about necro’s fear? 2s CC no damage, single target, still easily countered in a myriad of ways. Every single #2 is meant to stop a stomp. That’s its primary purpose. The way they do it is very different and meant to be different and make sense within that class (basically RP type reasons), but the quality of the effect varies far too much.

Even if they were to make eng’s pull stronger, as long as it’s still single target it’s very easy to counter… it could have more potential… but situationaly. Compared to ele which is highly useful regardless of the situation. I (obviously) think that eng/necro need downed state love. The only sort of saving grace for the other single target one is that war can get up and become potentially the highest (by far) downed dps… but it’s not very often they get to use it because of the rubbish #2 : /

As others have said in practice an absolute 100% stomp prevent is still a bit strong considering every single other one has some possible way to counter it. That yields better skilled game play imo.

Well, in that case I’d be very indirect about how to nerf it. Two things:

• Prevent movement through doors while in vapour form, but so allow being downed close enough to the portal to “rescue” you. In other words the only change here is that there’s this very very tiny moment in which an Ele could die from raw damage in front of the portal.
• Prevent rally from working on vapour form. So if you vapour, you commit to it. You cannot be stomped, but you also cannot benefit from a kill your teammates cause.

Vapor form should not block stomp at all. I don’t care about the other nerfs.

LOL THIS TOPIC??? !!!!!! ?????

So other than the fact that in like 1 situation that being downed near a tower or keep you want the WHOLE skill nerfed for that OPE situation…

To me it is fine the way it is, i have lost plenty of kills through it and unlike some i don’t come crying to the forums about it. Rather than seeing it nerfed which it is unneeded they will still in most cases and after all isnt the downstate #2 meant to be for DELAYING to give that little slim chance at survival.

I think others should be fixed – Ranger, Necromancer, Guardian, Warrior, Engineer and Mesmer(Stealth only). First thins first, i would remove stealth stomps. They are MUCH worse than Vapor Form. Then i would make it that classes can’t just pop stability/blind and get it off as i think that is nothing more than a cheap tactic.

The thing they need to do, is make it about time. Having to time when to finish and when to use your Downstate #2 Now, i kinda think that Finishers are a bit to long cast time wise so it is a bit to easy in the right situation (no stealth, blind or Stability) to interrupt it.

In my opinion make all the down state #2 skills have a 1/5second cast time and make it so that Finish has 4/5-1second cast time. Make it so that Stealth/Vapor Form/Invul/ext means you can’t finish them and make it so that the downstate #2 bypasses both stability and Blind.

You are right, vapor form should not prevent stomping, it should exist purely for the visual effect of an ele turning into vapor!
You know, a cosmetic ability with no function in WvW or PvP whatsoever.

I will reiterate: apply an immobilize immediately prior to vapor form and the ele will go nowhere.

Or perhaps stop killing them right next to portals.

You can certainly argue the merits of allowing a vapor form ele to pass through a portal, but there is a counter to vapor form like there is to every other downed #2.

ATMAvatar.5749:

I will reiterate: apply an immobilize immediately prior to vapor form and the ele will go nowhere.

Or perhaps stop killing them right next to portals.

You can certainly argue the merits of allowing a vapor form ele to pass through a portal, but there is a counter to vapor form like there is to every other downed #2.

the problem is not even gate
the problem is how many times it takes to kill ele in tpvp enviroment

Let the topic die, it’s pretty clear most of the commenters are strictly talking about balance when it comes to WvW. The game isn’t balanced around WvW, so there’s no point in carrying on this conversation. The only point to consider is whether it’s okay for ele’s to be able to walk through gates in Vapor form.

Carighan.6758:

Well, in that case I’d be very indirect about how to nerf it. Two things:

• Prevent movement through doors while in vapour form.
• Prevent rally from working on vapour form. So if you vapour, you commit to it. You cannot be stomped, but you also cannot benefit from a kill your teammates cause.

That puts in some risk/reward to it which is nice, but the counterplay still isn’t there. Still one of the better proposals I’ve heard none the less though ^^

ATMAvatar.5749:

I will reiterate: apply an immobilize immediately prior to vapor form and the ele will go nowhere.

Or perhaps stop killing them right next to portals.

You can certainly argue the merits of allowing a vapor form ele to pass through a portal, but there is a counter to vapor form like there is to every other downed #2.

Even in that case when you’re able to apply a 3s+root it still prevents the stomp 100% no matter what…

Seems like the best course of action would be to revert #2 with #3. Elementalist is simply too strong in a downed state.

haviz.1340:

Seems like the best course of action would be to revert #2 with #3. Elementalist is simply too strong in a downed state.

The problem is that the current #3 (old #2) is absolutely useless. It does nothing to prevent a stomp. That’s why they swapped them in the first place, because ele had the least reliable mechanism of preventing a stomp.

However, instead of just changing the old #2 to cause a daze or knockdown or something similar to what warrior and engg have, they just swapped the things, which was just a bad idea from the get-go.

Now the #2 ability is incredibly strong because it is almost uncounterable, and the #3 ability is so beyond useless that most eles won’t even bother trying to use it after they expend their #2.

If vapor form was put back to #3 then I think it would be perfectly reasonable to go into WvW portals, but not as the #2 ability.

Other ways they could adjust it would be to give vapor form a non-instant casting time, so you could at least have a small moment when you know to apply an immob. Or they could just reduce the move speed so that it’s still possible to go in the gates, but much harder to reach them.

There is that thing where most other classes have a stronger self-save after a brief delay, which eles pretty much completely lack. Warrior has the temporary revive, mesmer has the hard-hitting phantasm, and rangers get their pet to revive them, while elementalists get a brief bleed, a small amount of damage, and 3(?) seconds of immobilize. If you were to alter the elementalist #2 downed in favor of balance, you would have to take a serious look at other classes’ #3 skills in relation to those of eles.

I find it rather amusing that people complain about a downed state of a profession that’s the worst in pvp and generally doesn’t need to be finished by a stomping move.

NERF RTL !!!!

Oh sorry I thought we were just throwing random hate at eles.

You can always try to cancel the stomp near the end of the animation and re-stomp like you do with mesmers so the stomp animation lasts longer than vapor form’s duration and use a teleport to close the distance or and with team mate you could immobilize instead. Pretty much like thieves really but with an extra step.

In terms of revivability it’s not like it’s not like eles can be rezzed in Vapor Form like other classes can be rezzed while they use their stomp cancel/immediately after they teleport.

Cynz.9437:

i don’t want ele nerfs but on the other hand ele is only class that literary can’t be stomped unless you wait forever

it is not a problem in 1v1 envioment, in tpvp it is huge problem however…. you down ele, he goes mist form, gets rez, you kill him again, same story etc etc. you also can’t really let him be as he will just kill your entire team with massive aoe… i had matches where we had to kill ele 5 times before he finally went down thanks to all the team rezzes and guard rez trait… it just takes too long, too many sacrifices and usually would cost you a game

i do believe some counter is needed; every down state has one but ele’s

That is your problem: you were trying to stomp when you should have just been dps-ing the downed body. Poison would have helped prevent resses too.

The point is, and a lot of people don’t know this, but the damage you take in downed state is affected by toughness too. So if an ele is glass enough to be wrecking your team with aoes, then his team should be smart enough not to res him as the cleave damage that he will take 90% of the time out-dpses the rate at which he is ressed. If you are letting the ele be ressed, you aren’t trying to just cleave down the body, which with a couple people focusing can completely wipe the HP faster than the stomp would occur anyway.

We are against discussing a downed skill that is useful only in front of a friendly keep?

What about binding roots? they are OP in some situations…
This game is full of situationally OP skills.

Are them gamebreaking? i don t think so.
Outside that ele downed skills are awful.

An ele with vapour form will die and enter a keep.

A guardian/warrior will trololol in the middle of the zerg and enter the keep anyway….
The only class you won t see entering a keep is the thief.

Hammerguard.9834:

Another messed up thing about vapor form is that it allows them to interact with any objects, loot, and even go through portals.

THIS is the problem I have with that Vapor Form…it shouldn’t allow any of these, you’re still technically downed, and nobody while downed should be able to do this. I don’t mind the movement…but do not allow any F pressings or entering of portals.

You people do realize that you can stop the ele from entering a tower in vapor form right? Line of warding CAN’T be crossed in vapor form. They nerfed vapor form awhile ago. You can be feared, stunned, knocked down, and immobilized while in vapor form. This is a L2P issue. Ele doesn’t need to be nerfed any further than it already has been. It something that you can easily stop if you bother slotting something besides pure offensive abilities and use a little CC or area blocking abilities. Throw a line of warding or fear wall right on top of the portal and the ele can’t go in. This nerf that they did to vapor form seems to occasionally affect mist form as well because that will sometimes bug out and you can get cced while in mist form. So thanks whiners for messing that up too as they’re unlikely to fix it ever.

Fortus.6175:

Let me get this straight; you want to nerf the only thing eles do in any PvP enviroment?!

Whats next, reducing their health pool to minimun, give them light armor, nerf their healing in every patch and make all their skills have 40+ secs CD with highly telegraphed and long casting animations?!

Eles are getting a bit of a buff on this next patch

Aberrant.6749:

Shockwave.1230:

Aberrant.6749:

Shockwave.1230:

This is hardly different than a thief teleporting in most scenarios. You wait until the last possible moment and move and A stomp is wasted. There’s prescedent from that aspect.

Not sure why you don’t like it.

Because if you’re fast enough you can still teleport to where the thief went (steal to them works).

This is a small slice of a much larger issue though. There are several tiers of downedstates. Ele > Thief/mes > Guard/ranger > War/Necro/Eng. They go from 100% can not be stomped on the first attempt regardless of numbers down to… can be countered with blind, block, stability, two stompers, person/pet/tiny rock in the way… it’s clearly far from balanced.

When I play thief I wait until people can’t react quickly enough to teleport, even if you try to anticipate it you can’t get the stomp off, maybe it’s server lag.

To stomp an ele on the first go you have to be a stealth class so they never see it coming.

You can’t measure the downstate on defense alone. The ele has one of the weakest offensive downstates. Measure the down state in it’s entirity.

Or they could have already used steal or not be fast enough. It could be several things but there is a solid counter to it.

Being a stealth class won’t help unless they never see you at all ever and don’t feel the need to use mist form. I wouldn’t call that a solid counter.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Discharge_Lightning

195+ 10svuln 1/2s cast time isn’t too bad.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grasping_Earth

x5 755 damage + immobilize + 10s bleed again not too bad

Do you really find these skills so subpar to where it warrants ele having the only 100% get out of stomp free card?

Is Eng’s http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Junk so powerful that http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Grappling_Line and http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Booby_Trap (if you ever get to it) both being so easily countered seems balanced?

If so I disagree…

Even the dev’s at the time said that ele had the strongest downed state when they made the 2<->3 swap change.

Yes, numbers maybe sounds nicely. but. As ele, if you are dueling with someone and both of you end in downed state at same time, there is no chance for you to win. I experienced this many times and I never won in downed state duel.

Nikkinella.8254:

You people do realize that you can stop the ele from entering a tower in vapor form right? Line of warding CAN’T be crossed in vapor form. They nerfed vapor form awhile ago. You can be feared, stunned, knocked down, and immobilized while in vapor form. This is a L2P issue. Ele doesn’t need to be nerfed any further than it already has been. It something that you can easily stop if you bother slotting something besides pure offensive abilities and use a little CC or area blocking abilities. Throw a line of warding or fear wall right on top of the portal and the ele can’t go in. This nerf that they did to vapor form seems to occasionally affect mist form as well because that will sometimes bug out and you can get cced while in mist form. So thanks whiners for messing that up too as they’re unlikely to fix it ever.

I like how you pulled a L2P card when there is nothing about it being L2P. I don’t care about CCing a downed ele, I don’t care about ele going through doors. I want to stomp them like every other profession, through a protected and secured stomp.

So Are you telling me that there is a way for me to stomp through vapor form? No? Then it isn’t a L2P.

runeblade.7514:

Nikkinella.8254:

You people do realize that you can stop the ele from entering a tower in vapor form right? Line of warding CAN’T be crossed in vapor form. They nerfed vapor form awhile ago. You can be feared, stunned, knocked down, and immobilized while in vapor form. This is a L2P issue. Ele doesn’t need to be nerfed any further than it already has been. It something that you can easily stop if you bother slotting something besides pure offensive abilities and use a little CC or area blocking abilities. Throw a line of warding or fear wall right on top of the portal and the ele can’t go in. This nerf that they did to vapor form seems to occasionally affect mist form as well because that will sometimes bug out and you can get cced while in mist form. So thanks whiners for messing that up too as they’re unlikely to fix it ever.

I like how you pulled a L2P card when there is nothing about it being L2P. I don’t care about CCing a downed ele, I don’t care about ele going through doors. I want to stomp them like every other profession, through a protected and secured stomp.

So Are you telling me that there is a way for me to stomp through vapor form? No? Then it isn’t a L2P.

I’m sure you realize, as it’s been stated many times now, that mist form simply delays the stomp — just like most of the other #2 skills. Thief stealth and mesmer stealth/clone do exactly the same (you cannot prevent it, but it only delays the stomp).

The exception is mist-forming into a keep. I don’t have a problem with this either as it’s a simple fight reset. There are other situations where fights are reset (stealth anyone). If your WvW experience is ruined because a downed ele misted back into a keep, then you probably need to find something else to do.

Seriously, this is the highest priority problem you found to discuss in the forums?

EDIT: Also it’s been stated many times that you can CC the ele before the mist form (it’s not a surprise, you know it’s coming right?). It’s not brainless, but it’s possible with well timed play. So yeah, there’s a counter.

LordByron.8369:

We are against discussing a downed skill that is useful only in front of a friendly keep?

What about binding roots? they are OP in some situations…
This game is full of situationally OP skills.

Are them gamebreaking? i don t think so.
Outside that ele downed skills are awful.

An ele with vapour form will die and enter a keep.

A guardian/warrior will trololol in the middle of the zerg and enter the keep anyway….
The only class you won t see entering a keep is the thief.

Uhhh, I find it very useful away from a tower/keep portal. It will always give your team/server more time to get to you. It also works as a downed cond clear… another thing no other class can do.

Vyko.6953:

Yes, numbers maybe sounds nicely. but. As ele, if you are dueling with someone and both of you end in downed state at same time, there is no chance for you to win. I experienced this many times and I never won in downed state duel.

That’s so very rare that two players both go down at the exact same time… even so, would it really beat an eng? I’m not so sure about that. Healing while in mist/vapor + 2nd downed cond clear and grasping seems like it would win out (I have not tested this at all though obviously).

juno.1840:

I’m sure you realize, as it’s been stated many times now, that mist form simply delays the stomp — just like most of the other #2 skills. Thief stealth and mesmer stealth/clone do exactly the same (you cannot prevent it, but it only delays the stomp).

The exception is mist-forming into a keep. I don’t have a problem with this either as it’s a simple fight reset. There are other situations where fights are reset (stealth anyone). If your WvW experience is ruined because a downed ele misted back into a keep, then you probably need to find something else to do.

Seriously, this is the highest priority problem you found to discuss in the forums?

EDIT: Also it’s been stated many times that you can CC the ele before the mist form (it’s not a surprise, you know it’s coming right?). It’s not brainless, but it’s possible with well timed play. So yeah, there’s a counter.

Thief – teleport to them, Mesmer – stealth (deception requires a target to be used). CC-ing them ele does not stop vapor form from stopping a first stomp attempt 100% of the time by any number of people. It does not counter vapor form.

I wish balancing downed states was a higher priority to the dev’s. Sorry you disagree. This is hardly exclusive to just vapor form for me though (I can’t speak for the OP). #2 is supposed to delay a stomp I agree, but how well it does that varies far too much from class to class. It varies from 100% no matter what down to single target projectile. Not cool this has remained for over a year.

I have no problem that it’s remained for over a year — I don’t find it broken. I wish other professions had something as useful as mistform. It actually makes sense for an ele thematically.

Again, the only time you are thwarted is the limited scenario of mist-forming into a keep. It’s not a surprise, it’s not unexpected, and it’s not usable outside of that scenario. Everywhere else in WvW mist-form merely delays the stomp. That should not be a problem — especially considering ele is the lower armor, lowest HP profession in the game.

As I also mentioned in this topic, I find stealth-stomping (and other gimmicks like teleport stomping) to be a bigger problem. You mentioned Mez #2 requiring a target, making stealth-stops a 100% hard counter — yet this isn’t a concern?

I disagree with nerfing the eles’ #2 downed skill. Of course, as a necro, I can’t secure a stomp anyway. From what I understand, a thief is upset that he didn’t get the loot bag he was expecting. Guess what, thief, there are many people who are upset about not getting the loot bag from you due to you stealth running and resetting a fight until your opponents skills are all on cd and you win. So eles get to go into a keep to reset a fight? Thieves reset fights wherever they are..

Just learn to stomp like a pro. I teleport stomp eles all the time. All it takes is a little prediction and a little luck.

Ele downstate is just the most noticeable, because they spend most of their time there.

juno.1840:

I have no problem that it’s remained for over a year — I don’t find it broken. I wish other professions had something as useful as mistform. It actually makes sense for an ele thematically.

Again, the only time you are thwarted is the limited scenario of mist-forming into a keep. It’s not a surprise, it’s not unexpected, and it’s not usable outside of that scenario. Everywhere else in WvW mist-form merely delays the stomp. That should not be a problem — especially considering ele is the lower armor, lowest HP profession in the game.

As I also mentioned in this topic, I find stealth-stomping (and other gimmicks like teleport stomping) to be a bigger problem. You mentioned Mez #2 requiring a target, making stealth-stops a 100% hard counter — yet this isn’t a concern?

I agree that some of the others need to be brought up.

You’re thwarted on your first stomp attempt on an ele every single time. That gives your allies critical time to get you back up.

Stealth stomps can be prevented by allies easily and will often cause the death of the stealther (you know where they are). There is good play/counter play in that. Unless they blind + stealth it can still be prevented on some classes. No a counter isn’t a concern… every single other class can be countered in downed state other than ele. I find that to be balanced at least in that way. Some are too easily countered in a number of different ways though (ex eng/necro/war you don’t even need to pop any cd’s or use any weapon skills to secure a stomp).

In the case of mes, any target at all will do. So either everyone you were fighting stealthed or you were in a 1v1 (and if you go down first in a 1v1 you’re as good as dead anyways). I see zero problems with that.

Master of Timespace.2548:

Just learn to stomp like a pro. I teleport stomp eles all the time. All it takes is a little prediction and a little luck.

That’s 100% dependent on horrid timing by the ele, otherwise you’ll teleport and finish the stomp before vapor form ends.

Aberrant.6749:

Uhhh, I find it very useful away from a tower/keep portal. It will always give your team/server more time to get to you. It also works as a downed cond clear… another thing no other class can do.

Same as almost every single profession ..

Thief? Guardian?
What about rangers ? i mean its quite hard to kill a downed ranger….underwater its almost impossible in 2.

Give me the downed state of thieves and i ll be happy forever….

P.S. prediction is LUCK not skill.

LordByron.8369:

Aberrant.6749:

Uhhh, I find it very useful away from a tower/keep portal. It will always give your team/server more time to get to you. It also works as a downed cond clear… another thing no other class can do.

Same as almost every single profession ..

Thief? Guardian?
What about rangers ? i mean its quite hard to kill a downed ranger….underwater its almost impossible in 2.

Give me the downed state of thieves and i ll be happy forever….

P.S. prediction is LUCK not skill.

On land, Guard/Ranger – blind/stability & stomp – no extra time given to the team. They aren’t bad downed states, but they aren’t 100% no matter what like my ele is. IMO they are middle of the pack.

Underwater ranger needs adjustment I agree, but that’s mostly because of the lack of stomp type options. They’ve said in the past they want to give players a stomp like thing under water in the past. I would really like to see them come through with that.

Prediction is part luck plus skill. You have a limited amount of information, how well you use that will determine how much luck and how much knowledge is put to use… just like with any prediction. Scientists make predictions based off of things they know all of the time. That’s not just luck. Just luck would be tossing a few random chemicals together and winding up with a cure for cancer. It’s not like the two things are mutually exclusive or anything…

Maybe but to tell the truth there is NO prediction in this game.

Expecially www…..

There is luck, you can t reliable predict a player you never met before and you didn t have time to study….

Also there is no risk/reward balance so predition that is already borderline luck in fighting games (and something that needs a really balanced risk/reward) doesn t apply at all in gw2.

Oh while we are here….why doesn t warrior gives bags after they go in vengeance?

LordByron.8369:

Maybe but to tell the truth there is NO prediction in this game.

Expecially www…..

There is luck, you can t reliable predict a player you never met before and you didn t have time to study….

Also there is no risk/reward balance so predition that is already borderline luck in fighting games (and something that needs a really balanced risk/reward) doesn t apply at all in gw2.

Oh while we are here….why doesn t warrior gives bags after they go in vengeance?

So say I’m on my eng and I do a magnetic inversion on a downed player after seeing a thief c&d off of him that’s just luck that the thief got interrupted mid stomp and has nothing to do with the knowledge of what’s about to happen? I disagree. I don’t see what this has to do with the downed states being imbalanced though…

Same reason eles don’t give WXP after they vapor… it’s a bug and I wish they would fix it.

Zenjii.6819:

Eles have to have a strong downed state because that’s where they spend a great deal of their time.

QFT.

Aberrant.6749:

LordByron.8369:

Maybe but to tell the truth there is NO prediction in this game.

Expecially www…..

There is luck, you can t reliable predict a player you never met before and you didn t have time to study….

Also there is no risk/reward balance so predition that is already borderline luck in fighting games (and something that needs a really balanced risk/reward) doesn t apply at all in gw2.

Oh while we are here….why doesn t warrior gives bags after they go in vengeance?

So say I’m on my eng and I do a magnetic inversion on a downed player after seeing a thief c&d off of him that’s just luck that the thief got interrupted mid stomp and has nothing to do with the knowledge of what’s about to happen? I disagree. I don’t see what this has to do with the downed states being imbalanced though…

As often happens you can miss…and both your target will be elsewhere.

The point about prediction is:
You can be predictable and thus a bad player.

You should be unpredictable and totally remove skill in the equation.

Best part is infact thief, the only profession able to avoid MANY stomps….

juno.1840:

I’m sure you realize, as it’s been stated many times now, that mist form simply delays the stomp — just like most of the other #2 skills. Thief stealth and mesmer stealth/clone do exactly the same (you cannot prevent it, but it only delays the stomp).

Wrong, thieves and mesmers stealth can be prevented. Read the OP. vapor form is the only one that can’t be prevented.

juno.1840:

The exception is mist-forming into a keep. I don’t have a problem with this either as it’s a simple fight reset. There are other situations where fights are reset (stealth anyone). If your WvW experience is ruined because a downed ele misted back into a keep, then you probably need to find something else to do.

You have a serious reading problem. The problem is written in the post you replied to. The post wasn’t even that long for a tl;dr.

runeblade.7514:

I like how you pulled a L2P card when there is nothing about it being L2P. I don’t care about CCing a downed ele, I don’t care about ele going through doors. I want to stomp them like every other profession, through a protected and secured stomp. *

So Are you telling me that there is a way for me to stomp through vapor form? No? Then it isn’t a L2P.

Right above

juno.1840:

Seriously, this is the highest priority problem you found to discuss in the forums?

This is worth the time to discuss about. And I will be happy to see vapor form nerfed. It will improve pvp experience through the clunky experience called stomping.

EDIT: Also it’s been stated many times that you can CC the ele before the mist form (it’s not a surprise, you know it’s coming right?). It’s not brainless, but it’s possible with well timed play. So yeah, there’s a counter.

Wrong, Vapor form is instant so it can be used whenever.

runeblade.7514:

Rangers can use reveal on mesmer.

runeblade.7514:

Then, elementalist’s counter will be immobilize and aoe teleports like blink and lightning flash.

You stated it yourself. Only 1 certain class can counter a mesmer’s #2 while many classes have access to immobilize and aoe teleports to counter Vapor Form. Immobilize and blinks are currently the counter for vapor form.

Are you sure you should be aiming to nerf Elementalists’ Vapor Form which has many counters across all classes instead of mesmer’s #2 which you stated that can only be countered by Rangers?

I’m not saying that Mesmer #2 should be nerfed but I think you got your priorities wrong.

LordByron.8369:

Aberrant.6749:

LordByron.8369:

Maybe but to tell the truth there is NO prediction in this game.

Expecially www…..

There is luck, you can t reliable predict a player you never met before and you didn t have time to study….

Also there is no risk/reward balance so predition that is already borderline luck in fighting games (and something that needs a really balanced risk/reward) doesn t apply at all in gw2.

Oh while we are here….why doesn t warrior gives bags after they go in vengeance?

So say I’m on my eng and I do a magnetic inversion on a downed player after seeing a thief c&d off of him that’s just luck that the thief got interrupted mid stomp and has nothing to do with the knowledge of what’s about to happen? I disagree. I don’t see what this has to do with the downed states being imbalanced though…

As often happens you can miss…and both your target will be elsewhere.

The point about prediction is:
You can be predictable and thus a bad player.

You should be unpredictable and totally remove skill in the equation.

Best part is infact thief, the only profession able to avoid MANY stomps….

I disagree with it being 50/50 (luck). You should be able to make an educated prediction based on what’s going on. Will it be 100% right, no. But if you use the information you’re given you should be able to tell most of the time. I don’t know how else to explain it in text. At this point it just seems as if you’re playing devil’s advocate.

Technically eng can avoid many stomps as well. It’s just done in a total rubbish way that’s far easier to counter. Similarly thief can avoid 2 stomps but it’s not 100% they’ll even live past the first attempt. Ele can avoid any number of initial stomp attempts (until vapor form has been used & ended). In either case of how you meant it…

Kyon.9735:

runeblade.7514:

Rangers can use reveal on mesmer.

runeblade.7514:

Then, elementalist’s counter will be immobilize and aoe teleports like blink and lightning flash.

You stated it yourself. Only 1 certain class can counter a mesmer’s #2 while many classes have access to immobilize and aoe teleports to counter Vapor Form. Immobilize and blinks are currently the counter for vapor form.

Are you sure you should be aiming to nerf Elementalists’ Vapor Form which has many counters across all classes instead of mesmer’s #2 which you stated that can only be countered by Rangers?

I’m not saying that Mesmer #2 should be nerfed but I think you got your priorities wrong.

If you’re able to stomp an ele on the first attempt it’s a counter. Rooting the ele and teleporting will not do this. It is not a counter. Rooting will potentially stop the ele from moving in vapor form… but that’s not the same.

To get the teleport to work they would have to use vapor form at the very beginning of the stomp. Unless the ele is very inexperienced/bad this is not going to happen. That’s not a counter, that’s massive player error.

More classes than just ranger can counter mesmer’s downed state… I’ve done it in on my eng and thief as well. If you deny them a target, they can’t use the skill, and you’re free to stomp.

What?

I agree it’s not the easiest to counter sometimes, but at the moment I’d say there’s nothing wrong with mist form for a downed ele – given the state of the class at the moment I find it hard to read complaints about their downed state.

3 choices with finishing them:
- get very lucky and position/time a tele stomp correctly (of course won’t work on any half decent ele).
- daze/interrupt them to prevent them using mist form when downed.
- just attack them normally to drain their health and don’t bother stomping – ranged attacks, melee, whatever.

When/if eles get buffed back near to the crazy level they were at last year, then I’ll consider this a problem. At the moment it’s a non-issue. (For the record I don’t play ele)

Thief 2, Ele 2, and Mesmer 2 all usually can’t be countered. Thief 2 if timed right is impossible to react 2. Ele 2 is the easiest to pull off, but can be CC’ed and the ele has weak offensive capacity while downed. Mesmer 2 can only be countered if all enemies are stealthed.

I would guess that most of the complaints about ele2 are coming from thieves, because they’re used to being able to counter every profession downstate except their own when played well, the ele’s, and the mesmer when there are multiple targets.

There is plenty of precedent for the ele to have the downstate it does. It’s not an issue, I main a thief and have no problem even though it’s a little longer to land a stomp.

How to stomp mesmers like a pro: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56s0toOVCL0
Works better on other maps since Skyhammer is stupid. Mesmers obviously have the worst downed state since you practically have to waste no cooldowns or dodges unless he’s guarded.

Apply the same to thieves and eles but also use a teleport and you’re sure to get ’em most of the time. Oh warriors have no teleports, well what a shame.

zencow.3651:

How to stomp mesmers like a pro: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56s0toOVCL0
Works better on other maps since Skyhammer is stupid. Mesmers obviously have the worst downed state since you practically have to waste no cooldowns or dodges unless he’s guarded.

Apply the same to thieves and eles but also use a teleport and you’re sure to get ’em most of the time. Oh warriors have no teleports, well what a shame.

You’re in the wrong thread. This thread is about elementalist vapor form.

Curunen.8729:

What?

I agree it’s not the easiest to counter sometimes, but at the moment I’d say there’s nothing wrong with mist form for a downed ele – given the state of the class at the moment I find it hard to read complaints about their downed state.

3 choices with finishing them:
- get very lucky and position/time a tele stomp correctly (of course won’t work on any half decent ele).
- daze/interrupt them to prevent them using mist form when downed.
- just attack them normally to drain their health and don’t bother stomping – ranged attacks, melee, whatever.

When/if eles get buffed back near to the crazy level they were at last year, then I’ll consider this a problem. At the moment it’s a non-issue. (For the record I don’t play ele)

Since interrupt them does not work. The only choice is to attack them.

I prefer that the nerf happens now than later.

runeblade.7514:

Curunen.8729:

What?

I agree it’s not the easiest to counter sometimes, but at the moment I’d say there’s nothing wrong with mist form for a downed ele – given the state of the class at the moment I find it hard to read complaints about their downed state.

3 choices with finishing them:
- get very lucky and position/time a tele stomp correctly (of course won’t work on any half decent ele).
- daze/interrupt them to prevent them using mist form when downed.
- just attack them normally to drain their health and don’t bother stomping – ranged attacks, melee, whatever.

When/if eles get buffed back near to the crazy level they were at last year, then I’ll consider this a problem. At the moment it’s a non-issue. (For the record I don’t play ele)

Since interrupt them does not work. The only choice is to attack them.

I prefer that the nerf happens now than later.

Yes, but if you nerf vapor form elementalists suddenly go from an acceptable downstate with one stomp prevention and a small amount of movement, to the worst downstate because their delayed downed skill is the absolute worst in the game.
It does nothing to prevent stomps, and barely deals damage. You absolutely cannot suggest changing the #2 skill if you do not also suggest an appropriate change for the #3.

runeblade.7514:

zencow.3651:

How to stomp mesmers like a pro: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56s0toOVCL0

Apply the same to thieves and eles but also use a teleport and you’re sure to get ’em most of the time.

You’re in the wrong thread. This thread is about elementalist vapor form.

It’s a proof of concept. Double tap + teleport does work on eles with you time it right. Eles by norm has to use 3 skills to achieve one effect, it’s perfectly reasonable enough that other classes have to try a little harder stomping them.

zencow.3651:

runeblade.7514:

zencow.3651:

How to stomp mesmers like a pro: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56s0toOVCL0

Apply the same to thieves and eles but also use a teleport and you’re sure to get ’em most of the time.

You’re in the wrong thread. This thread is about elementalist vapor form.

It’s a proof of concept. Double tap + teleport does work on eles with you time it right. Eles by norm has to use 3 skills to achieve one effect, it’s perfectly reasonable enough that other classes have to try a little harder stomping them.

Both are based on player error… I wouldn’t consider either a counter because of that.

Why the kitten does eng have such an easily countered downed state when it’s the class that needs the most input to achieve a result? Eng should have the best downed state in the game if that was their criteria. Sounds like very odd criteria for balance btw…

zencow.3651:

runeblade.7514:

zencow.3651:

How to stomp mesmers like a pro: http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=56s0toOVCL0

Apply the same to thieves and eles but also use a teleport and you’re sure to get ’em most of the time.

You’re in the wrong thread. This thread is about elementalist vapor form.

It’s a proof of concept. Double tap + teleport does work on eles with you time it right. Eles by norm has to use 3 skills to achieve one effect, it’s perfectly reasonable enough that other classes have to try a little harder stomping them.

So you prefer elementalist stays weak so that downed state 2 will be uncounterable.

Okay.