Activates Balanced Stance when you are dazed, knocked down, launched, pushed back, or stunned. (8 seconds of stability and swiftness, immunity to that first cc applied)
This trait has been bugging me for a while, I feel it’s broken and only promotes mindless passive play.
Personally I think no profession should have auto-imunity to cc effects, but my biggest problem with it is that you never know if a warrior has it or not.
All other on cc traits still trigger the daze/stun/launch/knock down, the exception being the ranger trait Shared Anguish, which transfers those to the pet – but at least it leaves the ranger open to a new control effect.
Earth’s Embrace gives elementalists automated stability but it comes at a price, is predictable and the stability icon is there.
As far as I know, there’s no other trait like the warrior one.
I know there’s other options for stability on a warrior, and I know there’s other just as good or better traits to use but, at the moment, when a warrior needs an interrupt (to prevent a banner ress or a revive for example) , you never know if that interrupt is going to be a complete waste, there’s no indication at all that the warrior is going to be imune, passively.
I don’t ask for the trait to be directly nerfed (although 8 seconds of free automated stability seems to much), but at the very least give us a buff bar icon to indicate the warrior will be immune to the next cc.
My concerns about the skill are primarily towards small scale wvw (group vs group, not duels). not meant towards spvp or pve.
tldr:
-free impossible to predict 8 seconds of auto stability
-trait promotes passive gameplay
-trait needs at very least a buff indicator to allow for counter play
thoughts?
(edited by Maskaganda.2043)
Yes, traits like this or things like runes of nightmare is one of the main reasons why GW2 is sometimes so frustrating to play. The warrior doesn’t expect it, the attacker doesn’t expect it, nobody expects it but the game engine.
People complain so much about on-proc abilities “ow he just hits you and then he gets a bleed when he crits. thats so passive!”
But its way more interactive then this stuff. Atleast with on-crit/on-hit stuff the person has to succesfully use an attack against someone.
Traits like these require the user to be as interactive as a target dummy, and dont get nearly as much flak for it.
Succesfully land that Disable? Nope, he passively ignored it. And probably wasnt even aware what was happening.
The trait is Master level, same as the trait Cleansing Ire. In PvP CI is basically a must have if you don’t want to die horribly to conditions. So, if you want both traits that means going 6 into the defense line and then giving up either Spiked Armor or Defy Pain, both of which are really useful traits. Most meta Warrior builds don’t even take this trait, especially in Hambow because you don’t want to give up either CI or Merciless Hammer.
In WvW you can have food replace CI if you also have Dogged March and Runes of Hoelbrak/Mel. They don’t balance the game around WvW because it’s IMPOSSIBLE. That game mode will never be balanced because you can use food buffs in it and there will likely be a difference in the number of players on each side.
As for the passive nature of the trait, you aren’t wrong but I also don’t get why people are so against them. Even DotA-like games often have passives, in fact most characters have at least 1. In this case, the Warrior HAS to give something up to get this trait. MAYBE they could take Last Stand and then take 3 Shouts with Soldier runes…but that removal isn’t very good and it totally cripples your attack power unless you’re using conditions (a different problem altogether).
The trait is Master level, same as the trait Cleansing Ire. In PvP CI is basically a must have if you don’t want to die horribly to conditions. So, if you want both traits that means going 6 into the defense line and then giving up either Spiked Armor or Defy Pain, both of which are really useful traits. Most meta Warrior builds don’t even take this trait, especially in Hambow because you don’t want to give up either CI or Merciless Hammer.
In WvW you can have food replace CI if you also have Dogged March and Runes of Hoelbrak/Mel. They don’t balance the game around WvW because it’s IMPOSSIBLE. That game mode will never be balanced because you can use food buffs in it and there will likely be a difference in the number of players on each side.
As for the passive nature of the trait, you aren’t wrong but I also don’t get why people are so against them. Even DotA-like games often have passives, in fact most characters have at least 1. In this case, the Warrior HAS to give something up to get this trait. MAYBE they could take Last Stand and then take 3 Shouts with Soldier runes…but that removal isn’t very good and it totally cripples your attack power unless you’re using conditions (a different problem altogether).
What line it is in, and what traits are in that line as competitors has nothing at all to do with the OPs point. DotA and DotA-like games and what they do is irrelevant as well. The fact that this trait passively ignore control effects is not the issue. Many professions have one of those. The problem is, that this gives an 8s stability on top of that.
What is so entertainingly hypocritical, is that you chose to claim conditions as a whole are mindless and promote a lack of skilled play, while displaying a complete lack of knowledge with conditions, yet here you display a full understanding of the functioning of this skill, and make excuses and justifications for it.
Do people even use this trait a lot?
It is my understanding that in small group fights, warriors trade CI for this trait when they have a guardian or other profession in their party to keep conditions at bay. At least the warriors I know make that trade when I play my guardian, or have the elixir gun on my engineer.
It is my understanding that in small group fights, warriors trade CI for this trait when they have a guardian or other profession in their party to keep conditions at bay. At least the warriors I know make that trade when I play my guardian, or have the elixir gun on my engineer.
You do realize that people also take CI for the adrenaline gain so they can use their burst a lot more often. However, I kind of do agree that we don’t really need that extra stability. I would be fine if the trait was just a stunbreaker that provided 1 second of stability (much like stomp) provided that they lower the cooldown to 60 seconds so that it is more in line with other traits similar to this. We can argue semantics about how this whole entire game is mindless but that doesn’t accomplish much of anything does it or contribute much anything in the way of proposals that lead to better balancing.
And while we are at it, other classes should have indicators if they pop a fear when they are CC’ed, or mirror the disable back at you. There should be indicators for when a warrior has traited reflect missiles cuz god forbid he reflect a Killshot in your face. There should be an indicator if a warrior has Defy Pain traited because god forbid you thought you had him killed but he killed you instead because of it. There should also be an indicator for an engi carrying supply crates as his elite because kitten I was killing that engi until he took me from 75-0 with that skill.
Screw it, while we are at it, we need an indicator that shows what traits/runes/sigils people are running in sPvP in WvW, cuz well, how am I supposed to know whether this person is killing me with condis or power or how am I supposed to know he is a bunker before I engage him? Because what we really need is this game to become more care bear friendly right? The whole game should be an indicator.
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
@killahmayne: Why stop there? Turn every class/race into a single generic model with no identification so you don’t know what class you’re even up against. Remove Conditions and Boons from the UI so you aren’t sure what they’ve used or what you have on you at the time. Mask the graphical effects too so you have to judge based on how your health “feels” like it’s going down.
But why stop there? We’re still too care bear. Make the entire map pitch dark besides a fake illumination in a 100 unit radius around your character that allows you to see what’s next to you, but doesn’t allow you to see other characters in the distance. Cut all animations, too.
In fact, put a blindfold on yourself and plug your ears so you have neither sight nor sound. Play by feel alone. Using your senses is far too care bear. We want this game to be hardcore, and it doesn’t get more hardcore than playing by feel alone. Those with good game sense will thrive. Those without? Care bears.
Am I right? o/
@killahmayne: Why stop there? Turn every class/race into a single generic model with no identification so you don’t know what class you’re even up against. Remove Conditions and Boons from the UI so you aren’t sure what they’ve used or what you have on you at the time. Mask the graphical effects too so you have to judge based on how your health "feels" like it’s going down.
But why stop there? We’re still too care bear. Make the entire map pitch dark besides a fake illumination in a 100 unit radius around your character that allows you to see what’s next to you, but doesn’t allow you to see other characters in the distance. Cut all animations, too.
In fact, put a blindfold on yourself and plug your ears so you have neither sight nor sound. Play by feel alone. Using your senses is far too care bear. We want this game to be hardcore, and it doesn’t get more hardcore than playing by feel alone. Those with good game sense will thrive. Those without? *Care bears.*
Am I right? o/
I agree that would be so much fun! However, keyboards and mouses make the game too easy, those should be removed as well.
(edited by killahmayne.9518)
Once you spot a player with traits like the one mentioned, fighting them is bread and butter. You can provoke trait proc and literally make it useless or even use it to your advantage.
I like Last Stand on my Necro. I provoke stability with golem’s charge and then just corrupt it for more burst from fear.
Using things like that just cripple your build’s potential.
Thats all besides the point. I’m pretty sure I’ve corrupted a warrior that used balanced stance just to have his stability turn into fear and then turn into last stand giving him 8 seconds of free stability.
The point still stands, this trait has no equal among the on cc traits and there’s no way to know before hand if a warrior has it or not.
Slippery slope arguments aside, I get it why the devs might not want to clutter the ui with 1 more icon. But then again, you can see which virtues a guardian has, you can see incendiary ammo and superspeed on an engie, you can see opening strike on rangers, etc, etc.
I guess Im just tired of trying to interrupt zergling warriors banner resses and give them 8 seconds of stability instead, for no reason other than trying to outplay them.
thanks for your thoughts tho, cheers.
Why are some of you calling this “free” Stability? It requires you to trait into and as I said above there are significant tradeoffs for taking it. I personally don’t encounter many Warriors with this traits, and when they do they’re often times new to the class, at least in PvP. If this is WvW we’re talking, who cares? WvW is so random that trying to balance it is a exercise in futility. Balance is most important in TPvP, and right now there are much bigger problems than 8 seconds of stability every 90 seconds.
As I see it, the solution is to simply lower the duration of the traited effect.
Warriors do seem to get a lot of passive play, but to be fair its a Master level trait which is easily bypassed by simply using any CC at the start of a fight with a warrior. That will tell you if he has the trait or not, and if he does it will be put on a long CD – much longer than the CC you used to proc it.
If you see warrior with a hammer you can bet he dont have it,if he do have it he give up lot of dps for it or is a free kill to all con builds.
While I can perhaps agree about this particular trait, it’s worth pointing out that Warrior is ironically nowhere near the worst offender for this kind of thing; that would be Engineer, by a considerable margin:
^ Worth taking a look.
While I can perhaps agree about this particular trait, it’s worth pointing out that Warrior is ironically nowhere near the worst offender for this kind of thing; that would be Engineer, by a considerable margin…
Quite a few of those are somewhat useless, or worse, are crowded out by must-have traits, especially for particular builds (of which engineers have relatively few). There is nothing approaching 8 seconds of stability anywhere on that list, but most folks who play engineer in a pvp setting would GLADLY trade you 5 of these for 8 seconds of automatic stability. Oh, and can we have some of those, what are they called again… Signets… we need some signets in this trade, too. You know, since we are such a passive class.
While I can perhaps agree about this particular trait, it’s worth pointing out that Warrior is ironically nowhere near the worst offender for this kind of thing; that would be Engineer, by a considerable margin:
^ Worth taking a look.
By biggest offender, are you suggesting the engineer gets more then 8s of stability or gets it more often? In what manner are they the greatest offender?
While I can perhaps agree about this particular trait, it’s worth pointing out that Warrior is ironically nowhere near the worst offender for this kind of thing; that would be Engineer, by a considerable margin:
^ Worth taking a look.
By biggest offender, are you suggesting the engineer gets more then 8s of stability or gets it more often? In what manner are they the greatest offender?
Did you look at the thread? By “biggest offender” he means “most number of traits that automatically trigger given an in-game situation”.
It’s really easy to see if you look at the link he posted. Though when you do, I fully expect a laundry list of the traits “no one takes” or “that are terrible” or “that are worse than Last Stand”, but oh well.
I looked at the thread. What does any of that have to do with 8s of stability? What is really easy to see if you look at the thread he linked, is that is has little to nothing to do with this threads topic.
If you wish to discuss engineer traits that have nothing to do with stability, feel free to make a thread on that. This thread is not about whether or not a trait is better or worse then last stand. It is about whether or not the fact that it gives stability and is 8s of duration, needs to be looked into.
(edited by dancingmonkey.4902)
While I can perhaps agree about this particular trait, it’s worth pointing out that Warrior is ironically nowhere near the worst offender for this kind of thing; that would be Engineer, by a considerable margin…
Quite a few of those are somewhat useless, or worse, are crowded out by must-have traits, especially for particular builds (of which engineers have relatively few). There is nothing approaching 8 seconds of stability anywhere on that list, but most folks who play engineer in a pvp setting would GLADLY trade you 5 of these for 8 seconds of automatic stability. Oh, and can we have some of those, what are they called again… Signets… we need some signets in this trade, too. You know, since we are such a passive class.
Personally I wouldn’t consider 10 seconds of fury and 30 [!] seconds of might and swiftness, an automatic three-second invulnerability plus stun-break or three seconds of protection on every disable useless, but that’s just me. (There’s even a fairly reliable chance to passively convert incoming fear into stability).
That said, the poster above me has the right of it. The point of the thread wasn’t really the merit or lack thereof when it comes to these traits, but rather how much of the game doesn’t demand any input from the player.
This hampers enjoyable play on two levels: on one, it narrows down and hurts the means for players to see smart decisions and good reactions, and two, it introduces a maze of disguised mechanics and “hidden knowledge” that fudges our ability to even make informed playing decisions to begin with.
As others have pointed out, you can never really know if a Warrior or a Ranger is going to be immune to your stun, or whether an Engineer is running condition immunity or not: you just have to make an informed guess based on the type of setup you’d expect to see. Some mild randomness can be fun and a way to showcase skill in dealing with unexpected situations, but too much randomness is ultimately frustrating and goes against the principles of competitive play the game should be aiming towards. Players should be able to rely on their character’s given abilities. Fortunately I think a very simple hotfix would be possible for this particular issue, which is to introduce special buff icons for these types of traits.
Certainly Last Stand is a perfect case in point (although at the very least it has a mild cost opportunity). But I think players are deeply deluding themselves if they believe this kind of mechanic is the exception rather than the rule, or that the Warrior class is the only offending case in practising it.
Personally I wouldn’t consider 10 seconds of fury and 30 [!] seconds of might and swiftness, an automatic three-second invulnerability plus stun-break or three seconds of protection on every disable useless, but that’s just me. (There’s even a fairly reliable chance to passively convert incoming fear into stability).
Ahh, now I understand what those folks were saying about you in those other two threads now. How do traits with cool downs (some of those up to 90s) fit the word “Every” into how they react?
or whether an Engineer is running condition immunity or not:
What “condition immunity” would that be?
I have no clue what other people were saying about me in any other thread, nor does it particularly bother me. I only post here to air out my thoughts on the game, which are hopefully backed up by my plenteous experience in playing it.
However, I don’t have much interest in replying to your rude and aggressive questions as you are clearly aggrieved and very quick to offend and so any dialogue will likely be fruitless. If you’d like me to clarify something I’ve said, there’s no harm in simply asking without the incessant personal attacks. Catch more flies with honey and all that, love.
Anyone who uses this will either give up cleansing ire, or missing merciless hammer 20%, or “free” endure pain.
tell me a reason to choose that over these. mostly randoms would use last stand.
if you really want to complaint about this rarely used trait that doesnt help him win the fight, instead we should probably look at incendiary powder 1st
Anyone who uses this will either give up cleansing ire, or missing merciless hammer 20%, or “free” endure pain.
tell me a reason to choose that over these. mostly randoms would use last stand.
if you really want to complaint about this rarely used trait that doesnt help him win the fight, instead we should probably look at incendiary powder 1st
you are free to make a thread on IP, Im sure there was one already. it has been nerfed twice as well.
I know there’s other options for traits, Im well aware of what a warrior has to give up to choose last stand, I have a warrior and every other profession at level 80 and I play them all regularly as most players do by now, so thanks for stating obvious stuff.
The fact still stands, it’s a trait that makes you imune to cc and then again for 8 seconds, even if you are afk. and you can never know if a warrior has it or not.
is it completely op and gamebreaking? probably not. but it’s a very frustrating trait, especially when you are just about to cast a clutch interrupt, no matter how bad (or not) the player may be for choosing said trait. there’s a reason stability shows up on the buff bars.
Anyone who uses this will either give up cleansing ire, or missing merciless hammer 20%, or “free” endure pain.
tell me a reason to choose that over these. mostly randoms would use last stand.
if you really want to complaint about this rarely used trait that doesnt help him win the fight, instead we should probably look at incendiary powder 1st
This powerful trait doesn’t need to be balanced because to take it we’d have to give up on something EVEN MORE powerful.
Yeah, when that’s your argument it really looks like warrior traits need to be looked at.
ill use this in my shout heal build with trooper runes for organized WvW (running with a guardian for stability coverage) with lemongrass. I need it cuz I cant always have stability on bar (2 shouts + endure pain). In any other build there are better options.
fact is, whether that stab is on your bar or in your traits, its not free, it requires a slot
when I make a conscious decision that my build needs this trait so that I can pursue a particular tactic, I certainly don’t think im being “mindless” or “passive” as you say.
(edited by Zatoichi.1049)
Not affiliated with ArenaNet or NCSOFT. No support is provided.
All assets, page layout, visual style belong to ArenaNet and are used solely to replicate the original design and preserve the original look and feel.
Contact /u/e-scrape-artist on reddit if you encounter a bug.