Guild Wars 2

Can someone please explain to me what are warriors true weakness?

Conditions? Highest base Hp in the game, passive condition cleansing, countless other condition cleansing.

Kiting? Try kiting a hammer or a sword or GS warrior….. with dolyak or any of their plenty other immunities to CC and/or conditions

Outrun them? how can you outrun the king of mobility….

Damage wise they are wrecking trains, can fulfill literally any role in a party, pack incredible crow control, easy-click-and-sit-back brain dead near unavoidable skills that take entire points, or that home you without guardian’s scepter or eles’ stupid staff auto attack AI. Teamfights, solo, roaming, you name, they can do it all, usually in one build for the most part. Im truelly getting tired of getting cheesed, can we do some serious balancing here? If I had to place another class on the opposite spectrum of warrior that would ele, yet they get some very underwhelming changes which are definitely not what the class needs.

It seems to me that everytime 2 or more warriors are on a team, said team’s cahnces to win grow exponentially.

Alternate hard and soft cc. Immobilize and cripple can hinder warriors if you have them on pulsing effects, while knockback and stuns can be used when their 2-3 sources of stability are blown (auto from trait, then dolyak or balanced). Also, counter their mobility with your own, if they try to jump in close, jump away.

Unfortunately, it’s difficult to get all of these things on one class. Engineer has the easiest access to the control needed, but only can use them as S/D; warrior is irrelevant as they usually just go head to head for ages; guardians have limited soft cc on most weapon sets and focus more on closing distance than making it; thieves require very careful play to survive; mesmers should be able to illusion spam them to death, but are in danger if caught off guard; rangers do fairly well with their large number of movement skills and evades, though they are still in trouble if locked down; and necros… Good luck necros. Condition spam if you can, use those chills and fears, and flesh golem is your best friend.

Also note, if the warrior has a good ally, they are exponentially harder to kill. Try to catch them 2 on 1 if you can, preferably with one condition and one power/control.

That’s about all I have to say about that.

Only reliable way is to outcheese them, either signet of spite them with a 100% duration condi Necro, or wear them down with a PU Mesmer or blind spamming d/p Thief. (Im mainly talking about WvW where they can get -100% duration on CC conditions)

they removed counter when HSwas buffed/cleansing ire was added

there is no weakness now heh

I would also like an honest answer to this question.

My first instinct is not to cry “OP cheese mode”, but boy it certainly does appear that Warriors have it all. If Warriors legitimately have a weakness I would like to know what it is. It’s certainly not the standard weaknesses other professions have: CC, conditions, kiting, or burst. Warriors can shrug all of those off pretty easily all in a build where they still dish out damage.

As an Engineer it’s been noted I have a relatively favorable match up against a Warrior, but really everything has to go right for me and it has to go wrong for them.

I currently don’t feel like Warriors are balanced, but I would like to see honest discussion about it. You can’t really get that in game, as soon as you bring it up in map chat or a PvP game it’s… less than constructive.

Well,just for reference, I just picked up a warrior, geared it and traited it without any kind of knowledge…… I have won 6 out of my last 7 games thanks to it……… I mean, can any other profession have such a lenient learning curve and still let good players shine as much as this?! Oh well, consider me out-cheesed. If you cant beat them…..

You can control them because they have no stability. Wait a sec…

They were initially designed to have a hard time against conditions. In the first months (back 1 1/2 year ago) they had some trouble in PvP, because they had bugged movement skills, that didnt hit properly and they could be kited easily. The HS buff and a fix to the gap closers would be enough at this point, to make them playable.

But someone gave them the best condi removes in game and buffed their healing signed and all those gap closers got fixed (more or less) too. Making the warrior this high HP, high regen, high movement class, which only has to invest 20 points into defense tree.

Warrior as a class has weaknesses, but healing signet, 20-30 points into defense (cleansing ire) and berserker stance – not.

When you take these items from them, or leave just one, suddenly they have both weaknesses and advantages. To win, they have to plan instead of spamming their wombo-combo with their eyes closed.

Warriors DO, in fact, have a weakness! I once rolled my face over the keyboard instead of using my fingers to play, and I ALMOST lost a match because of it!

Basically, if an individual decides to apply his face to the keyboard in a rolling fashion rather than his or her fingers in a typing manner, there does exist somewhat of a chance that he or she will lose.

I found an afk warrior once and was interested in how much damage my auto would do to one.

My auto attack couldn’t out damage his healing signet+adrenal health.

I cried a little on that day on my elementalist.

Originally the warrior weakness was supposed to be their lack of options. Most of their utility skills are buffs in some way or another. Shouts, Banners, Stances, these don’t really give you more abilities, they just make you better at what you already do.

This was before some sPvPers figured that a balanced game is a bad thing and they rather want a balanced sPvP, and campaigned for changes.

Now, Warriors are apparently balanced~strong in sPvP, and ridiculous everywhere else. Because hey, no MMO ever ran into balance issues when they started basing it on smallscale PvP, eh? :P

Lupanic.6502:

You can control them because they have no stability. Wait a sec…

You’re thinking of Necros…

The Warrior’s one true weakness is that they have not developed a thick enough skin to handle feedback. Every time a thread opens about these “overpowered” traits and skills, these forum Warriors come around telling how it is a l2p issue for everybody but them in the game.

On a serious note though, the last response I read about a Warrior’s weakness was “They have a hard time fighting 2 or more players…”

Basically: bring a friend or reroll.

The hambows strength is:
Highest sustained condition removal in the game.
Highest passive sustain in the game.
Highest access to hard CC in the game.

The hambows weakness is:
Vulnerable to classes with high burst on low cooldown.
High condition spam on low cooldown.
Classes who can frequently apply poison and have high sustained damage.
Soft CC’s.

It was suppose to be conditions, but then Anet gave them condition removal on par with guardian. Currently Warrior has no weakness.

They have no weakness. The problem is – neither the Devs nor Warriors actually see or accept this and just think its a “L2P” issue. The sad thing is – it would take a few changes to make them more balanced.

1) Healing Signet: Reduce Passive by 30%, Increase the active by 50% and increase how much it heals with more Healing Power. So if they WANT insane Regen, they can have it – but it will cost a bit with needing more Healing Power

2) Mobility: Several options here. The “best” i think would be to make it like Ride The Lightening, if they hit someone the cool down is halved (20seconds) if not it is doubled (40seconds) Savage Leap needs to be a higher cool down as well.

3) Immunities: I think that Healing Signet Passive should be disabled when they use immunity skills (not blocks though) or make it so they can’t attack like the Engineer skill.

4) Hammer – The Burst needs its cool down increased having a 1-2second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply to much Fierce Blow needs its damage reduced a bit and the weakness reduced by 50% and Hammer Shock needs the Cripple reduced by 50%

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They have no weakness. The problem is – neither the Devs nor Warriors actually see or accept this and just think its a “L2P” issue. The sad thing is – it would take a few changes to make them more balanced.

1) Healing Signet: Reduce Passive by 30%, Increase the active by 50% and increase how much it heals with more Healing Power. So if they WANT insane Regen, they can have it – but it will cost a bit with needing more Healing Power

2) Mobility: Several options here. The “best” i think would be to make it like Ride The Lightening, if they hit someone the cool down is halved (20seconds) if not it is doubled (40seconds) Savage Leap needs to be a higher cool down as well.

3) Immunities: I think that Healing Signet Passive should be disabled when they use immunity skills (not blocks though) or make it so they can’t attack like the Engineer skill.

4) Hammer – The Burst needs its cool down increased having a 1-2second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply to much Fierce Blow needs its damage reduced a bit and the weakness reduced by 50% and Hammer Shock needs the Cripple reduced by 50%

It’s ArmageddonAsh with another wave of terrible ideas.

1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.

2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.

3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.
4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.

All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.

Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.

Harper.4173:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They have no weakness. The problem is – neither the Devs nor Warriors actually see or accept this and just think its a “L2P” issue. The sad thing is – it would take a few changes to make them more balanced.

1) Healing Signet: Reduce Passive by 30%, Increase the active by 50% and increase how much it heals with more Healing Power. So if they WANT insane Regen, they can have it – but it will cost a bit with needing more Healing Power

2) Mobility: Several options here. The “best” i think would be to make it like Ride The Lightening, if they hit someone the cool down is halved (20seconds) if not it is doubled (40seconds) Savage Leap needs to be a higher cool down as well.

3) Immunities: I think that Healing Signet Passive should be disabled when they use immunity skills (not blocks though) or make it so they can’t attack like the Engineer skill.

4) Hammer – The Burst needs its cool down increased having a 1-2second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply to much Fierce Blow needs its damage reduced a bit and the weakness reduced by 50% and Hammer Shock needs the Cripple reduced by 50%

It’s ArmageddonAsh with another wave of terrible ideas.

1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.

2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.

3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.
4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.

All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.

Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.

1. This makes no sense, HS is still the best heal even with healing power.

2. Yes they are suppose to be mobile. I.E they have skills that allow them to reach the target faster, no flee from them. Lets look at the descriptions of each gap closer:

Savage Leap: Lunge at your foe and strike them with your sword
Rush: Charge and strike your foe.
Bull’s Charge: Charge your foe and knock down fleeing foes.

None of those skills have anything to do with escaping a fight, but rushing into the fight to hit a target. However at this time they are used as a escape tools. They should require a target to use.

3. I agree, his suggestion makes no sense.

4. Again I agree, hammer is fine. The animation is so clear that its quite easy to avoid the attacks. There doesn’t need to be any change. Armageddon doesn’t understand that hammer is a CC weapon.

Harper.4173:

1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.

Well, something clearly wrong with Anet then. Why should ONE class get such sustain without having to trait/build for it like EVERYONE else. Sorry but that is a rather poor excuse as to why it is so broken.

Everyone else has to trait and build for passive healing and such to be useful – why should the class with the HIGHEST armor, HIGHEST health and all the blocks, immunities and mobility should be allowed to have it for nothing…

It would be nerf to those that refuse or dont understand the need for Healing Power, i mean they are Warriors and never needed it before, unlike everyone else but for those that WANT it to be powerful they have the option they shouldnt just get the most broken passive healing in the game for the sake of being a warrior.

Lets not forget that the “nerf” it has gotten is ridiculously low and you can bet that the buff to the active will be MUCH higher than the 8% nerf to the passive.

Harper.4173:

2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.

using the wiki, the thing that is full of issues in it self stating bugs and everything as proof that warrior should have the best mobility in the game? They already have the highest health, highest armor, highest regen and insane immunities and blocks…sure, why not mobility as well.

Harper.4173:

3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.

Not heard of Engineer and Elixir S then?

Harper.4173:

4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.

“seriously nerfed” Lol, to warriors anything other than buffs is considered a serious nerf. Sorry but 1-2 second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply broken. The durations of the conditions are too high as well.

Harper.4173:

All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.
Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.

All i see is someone that is likely a warrior that doesnt like to hear the truth about how broken the class is. No need to specialize when you can do everything anyway.

Harper.4173:

1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.

2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.

3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.
4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.

All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.

Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.

1) It would take over 2500 Healing Power for some classes, like thief, to match warrior’s HPS with no Healing Power. Not to mention- the Healing Power coefficient for HealSig is actually higher than many if not most other classes as far as HPS goes.

2) Warriors are supposed to be mobile, they’re supposed to be versatile, they’re supposed to do high damage, they’re supposed to be tanky, they’re supposed to heal for a load, they’re supposed to clean conditions well, they’re supposed to spike very well… They seem to be “supposed” to do a lot of things very well, don’t they?

3) Just because other classes don’t work that way doesn’t mean that warrior should follow that rule (that being said, the original idea was pretty strange anyways). Though, as Ash said, Elixir S does more or less work that way, but that’s a very specific skill.

4) I can’t tell you how often I’ve found myself perma-stunned by warriors this week. The nerf to the weapon was minimal (especially given that hammer already had loads of stuff behind it anyways), and the fact that you can keep an opponent CC’d for as long as you can is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And that is not a weakness of the warrior. In fact, warriors can specialize in just about anything they want, I don’t know where you’re getting this idea from. It’s just that warriors are able to be so good at everything at the same time that it’s more beneficial to choose not to specialize them and make them a king of all trades instead.

Harper.4173:

It’s ArmageddonAsh with another wave of terrible ideas.

1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.

2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.

3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.

4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.

All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.

Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.

While I do disagree with Ash quite a lot you might consider tuning down your tone a bit. All of your recent posts are extremly aggressive which is even more prominent because of your extensive use of capital letters. Going on a rant doesn’t prove your point.

1. The Healing Signet

I personally assume that this is not true. I never heard about that. It also defies common sense. Constant regeneration always hints at sustainable builds. An offensive build should never get such a high amount of sustain from one single skill without any investment. The base healing value is just too high. It gets even worse because Warriors have so many stat-unreliant defensive utilities.

People suggest making it more dependend on healing power to not destroy the skill for defensive builds. It actually is a very sensible proposition. It might still remain the best heal. But it would come with the trade off of sacrificing damage.

2. Mobility

While the core design ideas might still exist those summaries of each class are no reasonable basis for balancing the game. Otherwise Warriors should not have the high amount of condition cleanses.

Personally, I’m fine with the mobility Warriors have. However, Leap and Rush clearly are designed to close gaps not to create them. A mechanic like it was implemented for RTL actually does make sense. Cooldowns would have to be up for discussion. Of course, this should also apply to Swoop (Ranger) etc.

3. Immunities

You are right here and it would be very unintuitive. Stances indeed make the effect of the HS even stronger. However, the Signet is the issue here. Not the Stances.

4. Hammer

No it was not. “Severely” is highly exaggerated. Its crowd control capabilities were barely touched and that is what this weapon is designed for. Also, most of its damage comes from the AA which was not changed. If the damage nerf was too hard the Hambow build would have been dead. But its not. While I do not think that the burst skill should be nerfed I partly agree with ArmageddonAsh.

There are only two practical ways to counter Hammer. First, dodge. However, this is countered by the high uptime of Weakness. It doesn’t matter that I can see the Stun comming if can’t dodge anymore. It will work the first Hammer rotation but then the endurance is most likely empty. As will be my Stunbreak. Second, you can keep a distance. Again, this is countered by Cripple. The uptime of those two conditions is just way too high when considering the low cooldown of the other CC skills.

And no, countering with CC isn’t an option most of the time. It doesn’t matter that those skills are telegraphed when the counter CC has a cast time which is equally long. You could try predicting the stun. But again, the second rotation you will most likely be done. Because your cooldown is higher. Or maybe the Warrior has Stability up and you’re done anyway.

Warriors are certainly not incapable of specializing. They might not be best at everything. But there are very close to it in many areas. While they can’t get it all – as some people tend to insinuate – they can get a lot within one build with different trait set ups. And usually it is a lot more than other professions get into one build.

The only thing I’d like to see is Endure pain prevent point capture. It’s literally a full heal while they CC me to death in a 1v1 on a point. I can’t kite them while they take no damage/heal because they’ll get the point. “Protect me” on ranger prevents point capture and it hinders the ranger way more than endure pain does for the warrior. The ranger loses a lot of DPS when the pet dies. I just want some consistency of skills.

Translating open post suggestion:
Hey! Just use conditions and kill warriors!

Another pointless qq thread, but this time with a meaningless screenshot included. Bonus!

roamzero.9486:

Only reliable way is to outcheese them, either signet of spite them with a 100% duration condi Necro, or wear them down with a PU Mesmer or blind spamming d/p Thief. (Im mainly talking about WvW where they can get -100% duration on CC conditions)

yeah but those cheese builds are on the chopping block.

Wow, it seems that there is no limit to the number of people who quite simply can’t play and come here to cry for nerfs instead of getting better at the game.

Yes, I main a warrior. I get taken out quite often. Any PU mesmer can take down a warrior while half asleep. A well played necro will melt a warrior even faster. Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about…..

havoc.6814:

Wow, it seems that there is no limit to the number of people who quite simply can’t play and come here to cry for nerfs instead of getting better at the game.

Yes, I main a warrior. I get taken out quite often. Any PU mesmer can take down a warrior while half asleep. A well played necro will melt a warrior even faster. Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about…..

Instead of responding with your childish vocabulary and insults, could you answer the question? What are the Warrior’s weaknesses? Grenade spamming Engineers do not have “an easy time” with Warriors. I can’t speak for the other two builds you listed, but you only list their builds and not what the Warrior’s actual weaknesses are.

I believe most people in this thread have been quite level headed about the Warrior and issues surrounding it, you could extend the same courtesy.

havoc.6814:

Wow, it seems that there is no limit to the number of people who quite simply can’t play and come here to cry for nerfs instead of getting better at the game.

Yes, I main a warrior. I get taken out quite often. Any PU mesmer can take down a warrior while half asleep. A well played necro will melt a warrior even faster. Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about…..

So it requires a Necro playing WELL to beat any Warrior? What about other classes and other builds? You mention losing to Mesmer the class that is a dueling class shows nothing about how strong/weak they are as they are fighting a class that is MEANT to be a dueling class.

“Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors. " would this be against Naked warriors with no weapons, traits, heals, utilities and elite? Rather than just saying they would have an easy time how about going abit more in depth – is the warrior in your situation good? bad? decent? what weapons would they be using?

Also ANY warrior that can’t CC spam a necro to death is a bad warrior – seeing as how Necro have like the lowest amount of access to stability in the whole game, cant run, and has like 2 defense options…

Any DECENT warrior will MELT a Necro in seconds spamming the Hammer on them.

Criticism.

15chars.

Best Topic ever. every reply is funny and says the truth.

Harper.4173:

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

They have no weakness. The problem is – neither the Devs nor Warriors actually see or accept this and just think its a “L2P” issue. The sad thing is – it would take a few changes to make them more balanced.

1) Healing Signet: Reduce Passive by 30%, Increase the active by 50% and increase how much it heals with more Healing Power. So if they WANT insane Regen, they can have it – but it will cost a bit with needing more Healing Power

2) Mobility: Several options here. The “best” i think would be to make it like Ride The Lightening, if they hit someone the cool down is halved (20seconds) if not it is doubled (40seconds) Savage Leap needs to be a higher cool down as well.

3) Immunities: I think that Healing Signet Passive should be disabled when they use immunity skills (not blocks though) or make it so they can’t attack like the Engineer skill.

4) Hammer – The Burst needs its cool down increased having a 1-2second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply to much Fierce Blow needs its damage reduced a bit and the weakness reduced by 50% and Hammer Shock needs the Cripple reduced by 50%

It’s ArmageddonAsh with another wave of terrible ideas.

1)HS was designed to offer good sustain to warriors WHO DON’T SPEC FOR HEALING POWER. Second of all if you NERF THE PASSIVE THAT MUCH AND BUFF THE ACTIVE IT’LL JUST BECOME ANOTHER HEALING SURGE / MENDING. Ergo useless.

2)Warriors are supposed to be mobile. Look at :
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Warrior
First thing it says is SPEED.

3)No other class works like that. What are you even saying.
4)Hammer was already severely nerfed. You want to take it out of the game completely ? at least ask for that.

All in all I hope you do realize how far off you are.

Warrior’s weakness is his inability to specialize and do as well as other classes in specific roles.

(2) If you wanna to throw the wiki at us, then you should fix the Guardian wiki:

“Virtues have been said to help balance the guardian; for example, they have a lower base health than the warrior profession but compensate for this with their higher health regeneration granted by Virtue of Resolve.”

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Guardian

Guardian have higher regen than warrior? You are kidding me. To get the War regen I need a lot of healing power + perma regen.

Pretty sure ‘weakness’ and ‘warrior’ are just two words Anet has decided don’t belong together.

They prefer the term “Balanced”…

Actually kiting a warrior if he used zerker stance is quite easy…

Sin Stonestrike.9326:

Warriors are juggernauts on the battle field. They are built for sustain and for using their momentum to burst or wear down opponents. Team fights are where I see them shine, but overall I believe warriors to be in a good position as a class.

I am a casual gamer, I main a ranger, and I do not play a warrior. As such, I do not know all there is to know about class balance issues. However, my experience with fighting warriors leads me to this:

Warriors weaknesses are that they are obvious, they have very telegraphed moves, and they rely heavily on being in melee range to do most of their damage. As I said before, they are most effective when they can keep up their momentum. Disrupt their chains and keeping control of the fight is key to victory (especially in 1v1 situations).

As more of a side note, here are my thoughts on some commonly addressed issues with the warrior profession:

1) HSig’s passive should not be nerfed, just increase the incentive for the active (a short duration damage booster might be nice, since it allows for setup before combat or a burst during combat).

2) High health, high armor, good sustained and burst damage, and party support is what I think a warrior should be. Anet nailed this archetype and as such, should not be changed.

3) Movement skills are okay. If anything a few seconds nerf and nothing more (if they get nerfed then please nerf ranger’s mobility as well, it is too easy to get into and out of a fight otherwise). Btw, a suggestion like double the cool-down if no target is hit seems silly and unrealistic in game. If you bring up Elementalist’s Ride the Lightning (though I do think it was nerfed a bit too hard!) then please consider this: RtL in Gw1 required a target… you became lightning and arched to a target, which makes perfect sense. Before nerf it was used to create huge gaps in an extremely short amount of time and needed a slight nerf.

4) Warrior hammer is fine…. if you talk about control then please consider guardian hammer bunkers, necromancer fear builds, or engineer turret/bomber point holders.

I hope that warriors will not see a lot of change in the upcoming patches. They are in a good place as a profession and feel very fluid in their trait/weapon/utility choices. I often win against them no matter their builds, and love to play good warriors as the fights are always fun.

You comparing them just on S/TPvP? because it sounds like it to me. The passive heal is WAY to high they dont even need to take Heal Power, taking Adrenal Healing alone thanks to the Healing Power they get (along with Vit) pushes it to 400heals PER a second….for what? they simply equip a signet, spend 15 trait points and that is it. That is not skill based what so ever.

The fact that with more than 500 healing power and being in water attunement with the Water heal AND having regen my healing is STILL less than that of warrior and i have had to take traits and gear with Healing Power on it – You think that is fair? Especially when you consider the fact that Warriors = Highest Health, Highest Armor and Eles = Lowest Health and Lowest Armor….

The problem is they should NOT be great at nearly everything the game offers. They should have to trait/build to have things not get them for simply being a Warrior. The Regen, Mobility and CC need to be toned down.

Sure, what is not broken about a HEAVY armor class not only having the best regen, not only having the highest health and armor as well as great damage, great burst and lots of CC they ALSO have to be the most mobile class in the game….Balanced? Not a chance.

“Fine” Necro have what 3 fears – Staff, DS and the wall and they have to be traited for longer duration and cause damage and lets not forget that fear is goes pretty much with Necros defense….

Now all a Warrior has to do is equip hammer and boom – stuns every 10 seconds, loads of cripple and weakness….Yeah thats not balanced. You sure you don’t have a warrior? because you sound very much like one that is worried about nerfs (that are more than needed!)

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

Well, something clearly wrong with Anet then. Why should ONE class get such sustain without having to trait/build for it like EVERYONE else. Sorry but that is a rather poor excuse as to why it is so broken.

Everyone else has to trait and build for passive healing and such to be useful – why should the class with the HIGHEST armor, HIGHEST health and all the blocks, immunities and mobility should be allowed to have it for nothing…

It would be nerf to those that refuse or dont understand the need for Healing Power, i mean they are Warriors and never needed it before, unlike everyone else but for those that WANT it to be powerful they have the option they shouldnt just get the most broken passive healing in the game for the sake of being a warrior.

Lets not forget that the “nerf” it has gotten is ridiculously low and you can bet that the buff to the active will be MUCH higher than the 8% nerf to the passive.

Except that warriors don’t have above average blocking skills or invulnerabilities. What they don’t have is access to any form of damage mitigation – so yes – they need the passive regen.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

using the wiki, the thing that is full of issues in it self stating bugs and everything as proof that warrior should have the best mobility in the game? They already have the highest health, highest armor, highest regen and insane immunities and blocks…sure, why not mobility as well.

Insane immunities?
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Endure_Pain – you take no damage from attacks – for 4 seconds – is that INSANE?
Mind you conditions still kill you while EP is active. It has a 60 second cooldown.

http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Berserker_Stance – 8 seconds of condi clear – and during that time you can still be hit by physical damage.
Where is this insane amount you speak of?

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

“seriously nerfed” Lol, to warriors anything other than buffs is considered a serious nerf. Sorry but 1-2 second stun EVERY 10 seconds is simply broken. The durations of the conditions are too high as well.

You do realize hammer has the MOST TELEGRAPHED attacks of all warrior weapons. You can EZMODE dodge all of it.
It IS a L2P issue.

Arganthium.5638:

1) It would take over 2500 Healing Power for some classes, like thief, to match warrior’s HPS with no Healing Power. Not to mention- the Healing Power coefficient for HealSig is actually higher than many if not most other classes as far as HPS goes.

2) Warriors are supposed to be mobile, they’re supposed to be versatile, they’re supposed to do high damage, they’re supposed to be tanky, they’re supposed to heal for a load, they’re supposed to clean conditions well, they’re supposed to spike very well… They seem to be “supposed” to do a lot of things very well, don’t they?

3) Just because other classes don’t work that way doesn’t mean that warrior should follow that rule (that being said, the original idea was pretty strange anyways). Though, as Ash said, Elixir S does more or less work that way, but that’s a very specific skill.

4) I can’t tell you how often I’ve found myself perma-stunned by warriors this week. The nerf to the weapon was minimal (especially given that hammer already had loads of stuff behind it anyways), and the fact that you can keep an opponent CC’d for as long as you can is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And that is not a weakness of the warrior. In fact, warriors can specialize in just about anything they want, I don’t know where you’re getting this idea from. It’s just that warriors are able to be so good at everything at the same time that it’s more beneficial to choose not to specialize them and make them a king of all trades instead.

1) Thief doesn’t have strong healing because thief was never designed to OUTHEAL the damage he is dealt. Thief was designed and intended to AVOID TAKING DAMAGE THROUGH THE USE OF STEALTH – you know – the UNIQUE CLASS MECHANIC THAT MAKES THEM INVISIBLE.

2)And while they do a lot of things well they don’t do anything better than one class or another that is specifically built do do it better. That’s why as a warrior you will never solo roam as well as a mesmer , bunker as well as a guardian or dps as well as an ele.
You are at best going to do ok, but never as good as these other classes.

3)The fact that you’re trying to make up balance rules that only apply to ONE class proves to me how biased you are. You claim to want balance but everything you’ve come up with is summed up by " nerf warrior because i don’t like it" .

4)Learn to dodge telegraphed attacks. Learn to bring stun breakers. Learn to use blocks and blinds. I can’t help you to play better – sorry.

Also regarding warrior specialization – do you mean to say a warrior specialized for dps will outdps an ele that is specialized for dps? or a thief?

Or that a bunker warrior will outbunker a bunker guard?
Or that a solo-roam warrior in WvW will outperform a solo-roam mesmer?

Because if that’s what you’re saying I think I should stop considering your posts as serious.

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

P Fun Daddy.1208:

Atherakhia.4086:

Conditions.

Remove berserker stance. Make it do 25% more damage and reduce armor by 25%.
Attach condi immunity to healing signet. Slowly drains available adrenaline until out of adrenaline. Immune to condis while it’s up. 3 adrenaline a second drained.

I’ve solved the Warrior class.

0.o
Have you seen how much adrenaline generation warriors have? With this they would quite literally be permanently immune to conditions as long as they are either hitting or being hit if they took cleansing ire and signet of rage, and possibly one other generation trait. I don’t think this would really make them weak to conditions…

he was being sarcastic…

(i hope…I mean, there is a limit to stupi…..dullness, right?)

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

havoc.6814:

Wow, it seems that there is no limit to the number of people who quite simply can’t play and come here to cry for nerfs instead of getting better at the game.

Yes, I main a warrior. I get taken out quite often. Any PU mesmer can take down a warrior while half asleep. A well played necro will melt a warrior even faster. Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about…..

So it requires a Necro playing WELL to beat any Warrior? What about other classes and other builds? You mention losing to Mesmer the class that is a dueling class shows nothing about how strong/weak they are as they are fighting a class that is MEANT to be a dueling class.

“Grenade spamming engineers also have an easy time with warriors. " would this be against Naked warriors with no weapons, traits, heals, utilities and elite? Rather than just saying they would have an easy time how about going abit more in depth – is the warrior in your situation good? bad? decent? what weapons would they be using?

Also ANY warrior that can’t CC spam a necro to death is a bad warrior – seeing as how Necro have like the lowest amount of access to stability in the whole game, cant run, and has like 2 defense options…

Any DECENT warrior will MELT a Necro in seconds spamming the Hammer on them.

What, a Necro can’t dodge hammer attacks – they’re only the most telegraphed attacks the warrior has. Mesmer get’s a free ride from you for being able to beat a warrior? You know it’s true so let’s just overlook the fact with a snide comment about how they are “supposed” to beat warriors, right? And Engies, sheesh, I know you run one, and that you don’t believe they can handle a warrior speaks volumes about your skill level (or rather the lack thereof.)

You know, I’ve seen you here crying all over these forums about how big and mean and nasty warriors are. You always bring out the same ridiculous statements that have no basis in reality. You obviously know nothing about the warrior class, or for that matter the classes you play, since you obviously get man-handled so badly by every warrior you run across. Maybe this game just isn’t for you? You could try your hand at Farmville, I hear that’s pretty easy.

The weakness of the warrior are many and have all been listed above by someone with more patience for your idiocy than I have. (Thank you Sin Stonestrike and Harper!) You just can’t comprehend them because you are so filled with hatred towards the warrior class. There is no having a reasonable discussion with you, or the rest of the warrior-hate zealots that swarm to these thread to spit out your bile. You should be ashamed of yourself for turning what could have been a very useful forum section into your personal crusade ground.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about….

Warriors have no real weakness.

If anything, we could tak about how telegraphed their meaningful moves are (which honestly should be an even ground for every spec and where Pin Down, receiving a hard nerf on March, is pretty much the only inconsistency atm).
With perfect execution there are high chances on beating 1v1 a warrior with a lot of specs, but that doesn’t address the issue with warrios being demigods for mid-low level play. An expected higher chance of “failure” during teamfights on top their “staying power” for conquiest mode makes them viable even for competitive play.

Extremely vulnerable to kiting and with their burst-setup CCs being really obvious, they were known as unplayable during the first stages of the game.
They were also recognized, however, as the best balanced class on the game. With the aid of some ally all of these weaknesses coud been overcome up to a high degree.

Any issues were more about other classes being too well rounded more than about the warrior itself. ANets just chose for some kind of powercreep, highly likely to deliver a lot of problems on the introdiction of new game modes, over ther most obvious and healthy solution.

havoc.6814:

What, a Necro can’t dodge hammer attacks – they’re only the most telegraphed attacks the warrior has. Mesmer get’s a free ride from you for being able to beat a warrior? You know it’s true so let’s just overlook the fact with a snide comment about how they are “supposed” to beat warriors, right? And Engies, sheesh, I know you run one, and that you don’t believe they can handle a warrior speaks volumes about your skill level (or rather the lack thereof.)

They can dodge TWICE, that is it. No access to Vigor or anything like most classes. So they dodge a few attack then what? with little access and in some cases no access to stability due to it costing 30 trait points and having VERY poor duration or the fact it is removed in seconds means not alot they can do when the stun spam begins. Of course they can pop into DS and Doom the person away, but that just delays them and they will be back….

Not said anything about my Engineer, havent played it in A LONG time, so not quite sure what you are getting at with that one. Also, i said Mesmer because they are a DUELING class, they are built to DUEL, would you like me to say DUEL any more times before you understand?

havoc.6814:

You know, I’ve seen you here crying all over these forums about how big and mean and nasty warriors are. You always bring out the same ridiculous statements that have no basis in reality. You obviously know nothing about the warrior class, or for that matter the classes you play, since you obviously get man-handled so badly by every warrior you run across. Maybe this game just isn’t for you? You could try your hand at Farmville, I hear that’s pretty easy.

Lol, so stating something that is obvious to everyone (except warriors and devs, well they play warriors so…) means i am “crying” Not quite. The simple fact is when you have a class that has access to so much then of course issues are going to come up, Unlike some rather than seeing them nerfed into the ground i would rather they be BALANCED. Shame it wouldnt really take that much to bring them back into balance with everyone else. Stopping them from having the BEST regen in the whole game by simply equipping a signet would be a start, reducing the mobility as well because i am sorry but anyone that thinks a HEAVY armor class should be the most mobile in the WHOLE game has no idea what they are talking about.

It is okay for them to be strong, but they should not be strong at so much without changing there build. Healing Signet for example. It is equip and ignore, no need for Healing Power is it insane already. These are the kind of things that need to be balanced.

havoc.6814:

The weakness of the warrior are many and have all been listed above by someone with more patience for your idiocy than I have. (Thank you Sin Stonestrike and Harper!) You just can’t comprehend them because you are so filled with hatred towards the warrior class. There is no having a reasonable discussion with you, or the rest of the warrior-hate zealots that swarm to these thread to spit out your bile. You should be ashamed of yourself for turning what could have been a very useful forum section into your personal crusade ground.

If warriors were truly so OP, they wouldn’t spend their time running away – something else that all the babies come here to cry about….

Of course you would disagree, you wouldn’t happen to play a Warrior would you?

Lets see, Sin Strone pretty much said The passive is fine. This is simply wrong, the ONLY people that think the passive is okay and not a total joke is again Warriors and Devs. Already stated how that JUST equipping it is MORE passive healing than someone with more than 500 Healing Power would get from FOUR stacks of regen, they also have this ALL the time and can not be removed, unlike Regen. That is no where near balanced seeing as they dont even need Healing Power for that.

They also said the High health, High armor, burst and sustain is fine, this again is wrong rather than looking at everything as a separate thing you need to look at them as a WHOLE. It is okay to have one, even a couple but to have ALL of it in the same build with the BEST regen in the game is simply not balanced. Lets not forget they don’t need to trait or build for defense thanks to the highest health and armor in the game coupled with the insane passive regen and the blocks and invuls they have…

So while they have an opinion, unlike some who just think having an opinion is wrong and means someone is moaning or something, it doesn’t mean they are right. It is strange that MORE people are saying they are overpopwered than those saying they aren’t – let me guess they are all terrible players as well that are just crying to get a “balanced” class nerfed into the ground…

Harper.4173:

Arganthium.5638:

1) It would take over 2500 Healing Power for some classes, like thief, to match warrior’s HPS with no Healing Power. Not to mention- the Healing Power coefficient for HealSig is actually higher than many if not most other classes as far as HPS goes.

2) Warriors are supposed to be mobile, they’re supposed to be versatile, they’re supposed to do high damage, they’re supposed to be tanky, they’re supposed to heal for a load, they’re supposed to clean conditions well, they’re supposed to spike very well… They seem to be “supposed” to do a lot of things very well, don’t they?

3) Just because other classes don’t work that way doesn’t mean that warrior should follow that rule (that being said, the original idea was pretty strange anyways). Though, as Ash said, Elixir S does more or less work that way, but that’s a very specific skill.

4) I can’t tell you how often I’ve found myself perma-stunned by warriors this week. The nerf to the weapon was minimal (especially given that hammer already had loads of stuff behind it anyways), and the fact that you can keep an opponent CC’d for as long as you can is, quite frankly, ridiculous.

And that is not a weakness of the warrior. In fact, warriors can specialize in just about anything they want, I don’t know where you’re getting this idea from. It’s just that warriors are able to be so good at everything at the same time that it’s more beneficial to choose not to specialize them and make them a king of all trades instead.

1) Thief doesn’t have strong healing because thief was never designed to OUTHEAL the damage he is dealt. Thief was designed and intended to AVOID TAKING DAMAGE THROUGH THE USE OF STEALTH – you know – the UNIQUE CLASS MECHANIC THAT MAKES THEM INVISIBLE.

2)And while they do a lot of things well they don’t do anything better than one class or another that is specifically built do do it better. That’s why as a warrior you will never solo roam as well as a mesmer , bunker as well as a guardian or dps as well as an ele.
You are at best going to do ok, but never as good as these other classes.

3)The fact that you’re trying to make up balance rules that only apply to ONE class proves to me how biased you are. You claim to want balance but everything you’ve come up with is summed up by " nerf warrior because i don’t like it" .

4)Learn to dodge telegraphed attacks. Learn to bring stun breakers. Learn to use blocks and blinds. I can’t help you to play better – sorry.

Also regarding warrior specialization – do you mean to say a warrior specialized for dps will outdps an ele that is specialized for dps? or a thief?

Or that a bunker warrior will outbunker a bunker guard?
Or that a solo-roam warrior in WvW will outperform a solo-roam mesmer?

Because if that’s what you’re saying I think I should stop considering your posts as serious.

He’s saying that a warrior can have good enough of everything without having to specialize at all, which is completely true. Elementalist used to be really good at this role – but then they promptly received hard nerfs with little compensation. Now, warrior has filled that niche pretty well, except by contrast, they have the HIGHEST base HP and the HIGHEST base armor values.

The reason why people protest the current state of warrior as a class isn’t because it’s better at any particular spec than another class. It’s because it’s better at having EVERYTHING than any other class by far, and while other classes have to make sacrifices in some specs to excel in others warrior can effectively fill any role without having to make any sort of sacrifices, which is highly unbalanced.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

-cut out all the crying and rage and misinformation to leave the valid points only-

So your saying that the devs and the warriors are clueless here. Wow. The people who actually do the balancing/designed the game and the people who actually know the profession through constant playing don’t know the profession as well as a rage-filled forum whiner. I would never have guessed that. And as far as the majority of people agreeing with you – I think you would find that the majority of the people on these forums (which isn’t the majority of players) just want you and your fellow haters to stop creating countless QQ threads.

Enough already.

Just power burst them and run around for 4-5 seconds when they use endure pain, then power burst them some more and hope they don’t come back when they run away. Now about killing that warrior? nope.

What he’s saying is that Warriors are unbalanced because they don’t need to specialize to be good at anything. They just are.

As an example: Greatsword/Hammer, Healing Signet, Berserker Stance, Endure Pain, utility of choice (probably Balanced Stance or Dolyak Signet), elite of choice (though nobody really uses Juggernaut). 20 points in Defense for Dogged March and Cleansing Ire.

What weakness does that build actually have? Keep in mind, there are still another 50 trait points to place, an amulet to choose, and still no mention of runes or sigils. We already we have great mobility, damage, CC, sustain, condition cleansing/reducing, and even immunities in that build.

All melee? Would be an issue, if it weren’t for Dogged March and Greatsword mobility.

The Hambow build trades mobility for not even needing to enter melee range and even more CC.

The issue is that it is far too easy to come up with a Warrior build that does everything very well. If a Warrior wants to be good at something, they should need to specialize like every other class in the game. Right now, they don’t.

havoc.6814:

-cut out all the bias towards Warrior and admit they are not balanced -

I am saying that only warriors and Devs are the ones that think Warrior is balanced, but what would expect from Devs that play this class. Not exactly possible to have a balanced game if ALL the devs play the same class now is it?

This would be the same people that had MANY issues balancing classes and builds in the Original Guild Wars even going so far as to KILLING builds with their heavy use of nerfs…..

Also, strange that you say that they all want these threads to stop – i would be guessing they are all warriors worried about getting the class balanced. I also didn’t create this thread.

Problem is warriors can put 30 in discipline and 30 in tactics and get everything they need.

No need for them to put into their power/prec lines at all.

WHy isn’t adrenal healing in the healing line?? it should be master/gm trait at least.

Dogged march should be master trait level. Eles get a worse version of the exact same trait ut it’s at master level.

Warriors lose nothing by speccing into those 2 lines, and with their high starting stats always end up better than any other class.

Warriors op…. Nerf thief pls