Guild Wars 2

coglin.1867:

fellyn.5083:

Why do people care if a class can run away from you fast?

Are you just being intentionally obtuse? I sure hope so, I would hate to think that with our 2 1/2 pages of post explaining this in detail, that you would actually be dense enough to ask in earnest.

Because no one has actually said why it needs to be changed other than “whaa whaaa big bad warrior ran away from me in a fight I deserve killlll!!!1!11 warrior cheated!!1”.

Just because you think something is unfair doesn’t mean it needs to be nerfed and 2 pages (especially when some posted more than once) is hardly representative of the entire population of the game.

Please remember you do not speak for the majority, you speak for yourself only and your opinion is not equal to fact.

But whatever, keep whining about it and eventually anet will be compelled to nerf it just like berserker gear and the game will continue to lose the feel that made it so much fun in the first 6 months of it’s life.

Still don’t get this best CC in game lark. Almost all warrior CC can nullified by dodging, stability and stun breakers. Immobilise spam on the other hand…

coglin.1867:

Artaz.3819:

Fair enough, give Warriors pull abilities on each melee weapon then.

Requiring a target in order to activate Rush or Leaps would be even a greater buff to stealth (where you immediately lose target) and clone classes (read: Thief and Mesmer). You know because those two classes need even more buffs because they aren’t popular at all...

TL;DR bad idea because you didn’t think about the easy counter classes

Why use such an unnecessarily complicated solution, when adding a target requirement as in other skills solves the entire issue.

killahmayne.9518:

If people want to cite sword/GS as an example of broken mobility, How about I cite the elementalist with fiery greatsword, teleport and rtl? Can anybody catch that? Seriously. Or thieves with shortbow and shadow step and stealth, or rangers with sword + greatsword.

Warriors wielding only a greatsword, with no trait cooldown only has average out of combat mobility. Which many people tend to have in WvW.

Perhaps you should read the thread. It is in reference to any and all professions weapon skills. So yes, this includes *swoop*, *rush*, *savage leap*, *fiery rush*, and the like. Thieves short bow is excluded, it requires ground targeting. Similarly whirlwind attack is excluded from the list. Blink and rocket boots or bulls charge on the other hand are utility skills, thus require the sacrifice of a utility slot for the mobility.

So to recap, because some posters appear to have an issue staying on the topic here. We are discussing *weapons skills* only, not utility skills. Further more, of the weapons skills, we are only discussing the ones with no targeting of any kind required. Again, because time and effort (ever so small as it may be) are required to use them.

MiniMe.1960:

I remember when Warrior just sucked.

I call shenanigans (to put it politely).....You do not remember that, because it was not the case. If you have something well thought out or intelligent to add, we truly welcome your input. But when you start off with a line such as this, it is clear you are just trolling, or displaying an unreasonable bias.

If this thread was to simply address all forms of retreating of the weapon skills of all classes, then why is the title of the thread called [Warriors] best landspeed, no balance? That leads one to the impression that Warrior’s speed should be addressed. And why are 80% of the people that post here targeting warriors without simply addressing other weapon skills in the form of "Rush" like abilities. Which is exactly my point if you understood and read my post. That if people want warrior mobility nerfed, then they should consider other forms of mobility from other classes that can easily give them as much, if not more mobility.

I wish I could use Hammer/Longbow in WvW as a roamer, but look, I need mobility and weapon choices do indeed entail some sacrifice as well as having utility skills. So even they should be looked at and not be considered in a vacuum because they contribute to the overall picture.

Your right. I am trying to take the OPs unfair specification of warriors, and turn this into a more rational discussion about weapon skills . The fact that they have been specified by Anet as gap closers, combined with what they posted as their idea of what every profession should be, certainly justifies them as requiring an adjustment. My suggestion is to add the requirement of needing a target that is in range. This would exclude skills that are utility skills or that currently require a form of ground targeting.

Yes. Either ALL gal closers should behave like RTL (double cooldown if it doesn’t hit anything) or NONE should and RTL should be reverted.

coglin.1867:

Your right. I am trying to take the OPs unfair specification of warriors, and turn this into a more rational discussion about weapon skills . The fact that they have been specified by Anet as gap closers, combined with what they posted as their idea of what every profession should be, certainly justifies them as requiring an adjustment. My suggestion is to add the requirement of needing a target that is in range. This would exclude skills that are utility skills or that currently require a form of ground targeting.

I can agree with this statement, that ANet have to take a look at what should be gap closers and what should be more of “tactical retreat”. However I do believe that Bull’s Charge is somewhat of a big offender to that notion, despite being a utility.

When one thinks of Bull’s Charge, one would tend to picture something or somebody charge into something. But many times in WvW I see it being used to run away from something. Bulls charge having a 2 second knockdown further justifies its use as a gapcloser. But overall, even utilities need to be looked at to come up with, as I said a grander picture.

nicknamenick.2437:

Aza.2105:

The skills warrior uses for mobility are suppose to be used for gap closers not escape mechanisms. Its probably a oversight by Anet, because if its not then they would be hypocritical to had nerfed elementalist for the same reason.

Rush, Bull’s charge and Savage leap should all require targets to use.

Why? You can blink away or blink in.. It works the same for savage leap/rush etc.. Not talking about rtl here. But every class has a way to get out or get in.. Is it with blink or shadowstep or other teleport skills or even stealth or other classes also have leap..

If you on use sword i dont see any problem.

If you only use gs i dont see any problem

if you use them both i do see a problem.. Now you suck and are made to run away

I don’t feel its the same. When you look at the soldier archetype like warrior and guardian, what you see are classes designed to be at the frontline of battles. The heavy armor, high health, blocks, immunities and durability compared to less durable classes like elementalist.

It makes more sense for elementalist to have escape mechanisms because in comparison they are very squishy and they can not fight as well in the front line as a warrior can. Escape mechanisms are meant for retreating or trying to return to the classes natural element. If warrior is suppose to be a frontline class why would they have skills that move them out of their element?

The skills I named are suppose to help them stay put in their natural element (melee range) not escape it. Guardian plays the same way, they have teleports that get them into the comfort zone but once they are there they are expected to fight it out.

fellyn.5083:

Burnfall.9573:

fellyn.5083:

Why do people care if a class can run away from you fast? If they are running away they can’t kill you which would just earn more complaints.

Do you think you deserve that kill and he should just stand there and let you have it or what?

would you let a criminal get away?

I’m confused how this analogy is supposed to work. Please explain.

It’s quite simple; It’s not about them running away from you fast or that they can’t kill you. It’s about them being Cowards.

If the word criminal is too harsh than i’ll replace it with the word; Coward.

As the saying goes, "Coward fight to flight, Coward fight to run, I Stay To Fight "

Burnfall.9573:

fellyn.5083:

Burnfall.9573:

fellyn.5083:

Why do people care if a class can run away from you fast? If they are running away they can’t kill you which would just earn more complaints.

Do you think you deserve that kill and he should just stand there and let you have it or what?

would you let a criminal get away?

I’m confused how this analogy is supposed to work. Please explain.

It’s quite simple; It’s not about them running away from you fast or that they can’t kill you. It’s about them abusing you than getting away from it.

If the word criminal is too harsh than i’ll replace it with the word; Coward.

As the saying goes, "Coward fight to flight, Coward fight to run, I Stay To Fight "

So you do want people to just stand there and let you kill them as you please. Gotcha.

fellyn.5083:

Burnfall.9573:

fellyn.5083:

Burnfall.9573:

fellyn.5083:

Why do people care if a class can run away from you fast? If they are running away they can’t kill you which would just earn more complaints.

Do you think you deserve that kill and he should just stand there and let you have it or what?

would you let a criminal get away?

I’m confused how this analogy is supposed to work. Please explain.

It’s quite simple; It’s not about them running away from you fast or that they can’t kill you. It’s about them abusing you than getting away from it.

If the word criminal is too harsh than i’ll replace it with the word; Coward.

As the saying goes, "Coward fight to flight, Coward fight to run, I Stay To Fight "

So you do want people to just stand there and let you kill them as you please. Gotcha.

It’s Common Sense

Are you serious!!

Can someone translate what i just said to Fellyn.?

Thanks!

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good gap closers on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Basically the entire thread has covered this in detail already. No one has an issue with gap closers being used as gap closers. What your scenario represents, is exactly what the weapons skills we are discussing, were designed to do. What your mentioning above is how they should work and we want them to work. As long as you have a player to target to close a gap on in with the intention to get them in range of your attacks, then it is functioning perfectly.
What everyone is taking issue with, is the fact that these gap closer skills are being exploited for general travel and/or land movement as well as being exploited for escape purposes, to run from a fight.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good gap closers on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

Thiefs movement is part of their class mechanic. If they didn’t have high mobility they would die incredibly fast. Warriors on the other hand have heavy armor, and a huge health pool… and super high landspeed, and, despite your claim, super high combat movement (this doesn’t strictly translate to dodges)… and great cc,… and great damage. While I don’t think it’s possible to get all of those things in one build you automatically have heavy armor and a large health pool. Take your pick of 3 out of the 4 other ones and that’s where warriors are now.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

coglin.1867:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Basically the entire thread has covered this in detail already. No one has an issue with gap closers being used as gap closers. What your scenario represents, is exactly what the weapons skills we are discussing, were designed to do. What your mentioning above is how they should work and we want them to work. As long as you have a player to target to close a gap on in with the intention to get them in range of your attacks, then it is functioning perfectly.
What everyone is taking issue with, is the fact that these gap closer skills are being exploited for general travel and/or land movement as well as being exploited for escape purposes, to run from a fight.

There are people exploiting evade frames on weapons, ports on weapons. Each weapon/profession work in diferent ways. As soon people realise that better.

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

I’m sorry but those gap closers can be used two ways, Guardian’s gap closers are just that, gap closers. So again what is your point?

Cuz from where I’m looking at it, warriors have good landspeed and good combat movement with the same tools.

coglin.1867:

fellyn.5083:

Why do people care if a class can run away from you fast?

Are you just being intentionally obtuse? I sure hope so, I would hate to think that with our 2 1/2 pages of post explaining this in detail, that you would actually be dense enough to ask in earnest.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

your argument is invalid as warriors are meant to have the best “land speed” in the game. guild wars 2 has been out for more than a year. it is about time you digested the fact that warriors have the best mobility in the game.

Translated to plain English, this says, I am OP, and love it, and would probably lose many fights if I weren’t, so please do not nerf us as you would do any other profession, because I lack the skil to compensate for such a change.

zapv.8051:

Thematically, the idea of a warrior running away is ridiculous, and shouldn’t be allowed.

You make a good point in the area of theme. This also reminds me, that it appears to me to be contrary to what they listed when they defined the warrior and it’s role.

silentnight warrior.2714:

So we have good landspeed mobility and that makes us good to run away. Other classes have better combat movement. So there is balance in that point. Warrior as to travel the distance. Other classes port.

Do you have to tell this lie to yourself so you can sleep at night?

Harper.4173:

Warriors are mobile – yes – but with that mobility comes the trade-off of no CC.
And with no CC you can’t exactly hold your opponent in order for you to kill him.
So yes – you can run away with said spec but it’s pretty much all you can do.

Wait, wha.., what? The off hand Hammer he had with that great sword offers no CC?

Thighum.7295:

People comparing steal to the movement skills on greatsword just is wrong. STEAL REQUIRES a TARGET. If you use steal without a target it goes on a 20+ second cd with no added movement. In addition, it is a profession mechanic, and if you don’t trait for steal its like a 30 second cd.

Warrior gs skills have a shorter cd, and work without a target. What are you trying to compare here?

Exactly. I have mentioned several times through out this thread, and others. The solution to all of these gap closers being used for general mobility and escaping after you get your butt kicked would be solved if they functioned exactly this way.

ArmageddonAsh.6430:

I am fine with lighter classes being faster,

I agree. Not only does it work thematically, but it is more in line with what Anet specifically stated in their post about what they feel professional roles are.

Aza.2105:

Rush, Bull’s charge and Savage leap should all require targets to use.

Rush and savage leap, absolutely. Bull’s Charge, I disagree with. In my eyes, there is a huge difference between the investment in a weapon skill and a utility still. If you invest 1/3 of you utility options for a mobile skill, then you deserve the mobility. Simply picking up a great sword or short sword on the other hand should not in it self offer you land speed, mobility, gap closers and escapes, where others have to trait ir invest utility slots for it.

Part of the issue here, is that too many posters are making this about warriors, when this issue is not that singular. It encompasses many professions. Swoop of the ranger great sword is just as bad. As far as I am concerned, ride the lightening also should not work without a target.

Pro tips:

If a warrior runs from a fight then you’ve won that fight. in sPVP you’ve achieved your goal. In WVW you’ve achieved your goal.

Also – if a warrior has an offhand hammer for CC then he’s not really that moblile – i was referring to S+WH+ GS spec. If he has a hammer he’s only got half of the mobility.

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

I’m sorry but those gap closers can be used two ways, Guardian’s gap closers are just that, gap closers. So again what is your point?

Cuz from where I’m looking at it, warriors have good landspeed and good combat movement with the same tools.

Other classes combat movement are usualy instant. No travel time and no problem hiting the target.
Warrior gap closers are not instant, have a travel time (you can see them) and they miss 90% of times (gs 5 is the most problematic). Thats why they are better to escape.

If warrior gap closers required a target ANet will need to buff the hitting ratio, animation and the time of reaching the target. (lets emagine warrior with guardian/thief gap closers)

Warriors dont have the eficiency of other classes when they use gap closers. But other classes dont have the eficiency of warrior when they need to get out.

Edit: The only class that its great at landspeed movement and combat movement its thief.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is working as intended.
warriors are meant to be fast.
what is the problem?

do you remember that warriors have no direct access to:
- stealth
- illusions
- death shroud
- pets
- minions
- protection, aegis

warriors are balanced and not overpowered, it has been more than a year since launch, please accept that already.

Most other classes don’t have access to:

-Very strong heals
-Highest armor class
-Highest HP pool
-Immunity to condis/damage via stances (including shield stance)
-Utilities that can heal for 2k+ that also have strong utility aside from that

Etc… You forget that wars have access to defensive things that other classes do not. Before you “oh he’s just whining blah blah blah”, I have a level 80 warrior that I roam in WvW with quite a bit.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Dogged march supposed to help them in combat mobility. Melandru runes and Lemongrass can help even more.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Warriors have better “in combat” movement than guardians. Guardians have 3 gap closers (1 being a utility). Warriors have 2 gap closers on one weapon (a 1200 range and a 450 ranger), 1 on another weapon (600 range on very short cd), and a utility with 900 range. You can make the argument that thieves have better in combat movement than wars, but that’s just 1 class. No other class in the game comes close to warriors/thieves in ability to close the gap.

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Dogged march supposed to help them in combat mobility. Melandru runes and Lemongrass can help even more.

Yes but that dont turn warrior gap closeres to instant ports. And Warriors are not the only ones that can have ALL of what you said.

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Warriors have better “in combat” movement than guardians. Guardians have 3 gap closers (1 being a utility). Warriors have 2 gap closers on one weapon (a 1200 range and a 450 ranger), 1 on another weapon (600 range on very short cd), and a utility with 900 range. You can make the argument that thieves have better in combat movement than wars, but that’s just 1 class. No other class in the game comes close to warriors/thieves in ability to close the gap.

Yes you are right. Warrior as more access to gap closers than guardian.
Guardian gap closeres are more efective as gap closers (in combat). Warriors can use theirs to gap closer but they are unreliable to hit unlike guardian. In combat (no runs), guardian gap closers are way more efective than warrior ones.

Arius.7031:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is working as intended.
warriors are meant to be fast.
what is the problem?

do you remember that warriors have no direct access to:
- stealth
- illusions
- death shroud
- pets
- minions
- protection, aegis

warriors are balanced and not overpowered, it has been more than a year since launch, please accept that already.

Most other classes don’t have access to:

-Very strong heals
-Highest armor class
-Highest HP pool
-Immunity to condis/damage via stances (including shield stance)
-Utilities that can heal for 2k+ that also have strong utility aside from that

Etc… You forget that wars have access to defensive things that other classes do not. Before you “oh he’s just whining blah blah blah”, I have a level 80 warrior that I roam in WvW with quite a bit.

To be fair, could you list out everything that all other classes have for defense? We need a full list for comparability if you are going through with this argument. /tangent

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Dogged march supposed to help them in combat mobility. Melandru runes and Lemongrass can help even more.

Yes but that dont turn warrior gap closeres to instant ports. And Warriors are not the only ones that can have ALL of what you said.

What i mean is that this trait alone makes their mobility questionable on their weapons, especially GS. Beside that you take either the passive 25% movement bonus and / or using Signet of Rage with high swiftness uptime. I admit, swiftness isn’t that good in combat and can be removed, but at least they have options.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Warriors have better “in combat” movement than guardians. Guardians have 3 gap closers (1 being a utility). Warriors have 2 gap closers on one weapon (a 1200 range and a 450 ranger), 1 on another weapon (600 range on very short cd), and a utility with 900 range. You can make the argument that thieves have better in combat movement than wars, but that’s just 1 class. No other class in the game comes close to warriors/thieves in ability to close the gap.

Yes you are right. Warrior as more access to gap closers than guardian.
Guardian gap closeres are more efective as gap closers (in combat). Warriors can use theirs to gap closer but they are unreliable to hit unlike guardian. In combat (no runs), guardian gap closers are way more efective than warrior ones.

How are they more effective? GS skill 5 messes up quite a bit to be fair, but it still does close the gap even if you miss the attack itself. GS skill 3 has to be aimed but it never messes up, it does great damage, and it evades. Sword skill 2 works like guardian GS skill 3 except it’s shorter but on shorter cooldown. I do not see how the Guardian ones are superior.

To be clear here, idk if you actually play Guardian a lot. My main is a Guard and my 2nd is a Warrior. I know that Warrior GS skill 5 can get messed up, but it still works as a gap closer even if not always as an attack. Another HUGE issue is 2/3 guard gap closers must have a target (sword 2, and judge’s intervention). You don’t need a target for any warrior ones. This means you can use warrior ones to catch targets you know general location of but are stealthed; you can use it to get AHEAD of running opponents; you can use them to place your character in optimum position; and finally can use them to run.

The warrior ones provide superior gap closing functionality (esp considering you have two tied to one single weapon, whereas guard has to take 1h and 2h swords), and they have far more utility in general.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Exactly, Warrior out of combat and in combat speed is linked to one another because they are tied to weapons. The only non-weapon is Bull’s Charge a medium range leap and a nerfed Dash on Rampage (an ability where you can basically run to the target in the same time it takes to activate).

Also, Guardians actually have an AoE pull on GS. I’m rather fond of it and use it often.

Another part that is not mentioned here…All of the Warrior movements abilities are also affected in distance by movement impairing condition effects (so cripple, chill and immobilize) really hinders the Warrior unless they build for counter (while common in Warrior builds, it is a trait point investment nonetheless to have superior mobility). Walls (i.e. Guardian staff ‘4’), hills, bumps in terrain (aka z-axis) also impair the Warriors distance traveled (unlike teleports).

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Warriors have better “in combat” movement than guardians. Guardians have 3 gap closers (1 being a utility). Warriors have 2 gap closers on one weapon (a 1200 range and a 450 ranger), 1 on another weapon (600 range on very short cd), and a utility with 900 range. You can make the argument that thieves have better in combat movement than wars, but that’s just 1 class. No other class in the game comes close to warriors/thieves in ability to close the gap.

Yes you are right. Warrior as more access to gap closers than guardian.
Guardian gap closeres are more efective as gap closers (in combat). Warriors can use theirs to gap closer but they are unreliable to hit unlike guardian. In combat (no runs), guardian gap closers are way more efective than warrior ones.

How are they more effective? GS skill 5 messes up quite a bit to be fair, but it still does close the gap even if you miss the attack itself. GS skill 3 has to be aimed but it never messes up, it does great damage, and it evades. Sword skill 2 works like guardian GS skill 3 except it’s shorter but on shorter cooldown. I do not see how the Guardian ones are superior.

To be clear here, idk if you actually play Guardian a lot. My main is a Guard and my 2nd is a Warrior. I know that Warrior GS skill 5 can get messed up, but it still works as a gap closer even if not always as an attack. Another HUGE issue is 2/3 guard gap closers must have a target (sword 2, and judge’s intervention). You don’t need a target for any warrior ones. This means you can use warrior ones to catch targets you know general location of but are stealthed; you can use it to get AHEAD of running opponents; you can use them to place your character in optimum position; and finally can use them to run.

The warrior ones provide superior gap closing functionality (esp considering you have two tied to one single weapon, whereas guard has to take 1h and 2h swords), and they have far more utility in general.

They are more efective because they are ports (with the exception of leap of faith). You can ignore movement control efects, wells and traps between doing those skills and they are instant.

In combat situation guardian is better but in land movement warrior is better.

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

Mightymealworm.8409:

Kargath.6598:

Cynz.9437:

Kargath.6598:

is this the complain about warriors month?

wars been too strong for past half year at least~

No it hasnt i dont know what you people are smoking, warrior is too powerful omg plox nerf, how many of you actually spvp and got a higher rank than 20 please, how many of you run anything other than cof path 1? What about melee rangers out there that are spirit spec in pvp and are unkillable.

here is a video for those who say rangers suck in pve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWQ-39_C8LI

There are zerker minion mancers out there that have 2 fears deathshroud, pets that heal on attack. golem rush with 1 minute cooldown with EVERY BUFF IN THE GAME!

good thief will use blinds and OVERPOWERED STEALTH against any warrior, being able to DISENGAGE AT WILL > EVERY OTHER CLASS IN THE GAME!

D/D ele’s will be even stronger after this coming tuesday.

There is a retaliation guardian build that destroys anyone that touches them while sustaining healing ohh and its a bunker build at the same time btw

Why is are there Q.Q posts about warriors all the time. ARENA NET PLEASE NERF THOSE CLASSES!

Because those builds/classes are not as strong as warrior?

incorrect answer, because warrior haters do not wish to put in more effort to put down warriors.
because warriors have been free kills for them for such a long time, and when warriors can finally put up a fair fight, them warrior haters are not happy and so they cry.

that, is the fact.
still happening in the forums.

AMEN

Artaz.3819:

Arius.7031:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is working as intended.
warriors are meant to be fast.
what is the problem?

do you remember that warriors have no direct access to:
- stealth
- illusions
- death shroud
- pets
- minions
- protection, aegis

warriors are balanced and not overpowered, it has been more than a year since launch, please accept that already.

Most other classes don’t have access to:

-Very strong heals
-Highest armor class
-Highest HP pool
-Immunity to condis/damage via stances (including shield stance)
-Utilities that can heal for 2k+ that also have strong utility aside from that

Etc… You forget that wars have access to defensive things that other classes do not. Before you “oh he’s just whining blah blah blah”, I have a level 80 warrior that I roam in WvW with quite a bit.

To be fair, could you list out everything that all other classes have for defense? We need a full list for comparability if you are going through with this argument. /tangent

No lol, that would take forever. Besides, I’m just answering the all too common response “but wars don’t have access to x!”. It’s a copout, every class has access to a bunch of defensive things, every single one. Warrior is no exception. Not only is it no exception, there is a very good reason why it’s considered one of the best defensive classes in the game… because it has very strong defensive capabilities compared to other classes.

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Dogged march supposed to help them in combat mobility. Melandru runes and Lemongrass can help even more.

Yes but that dont turn warrior gap closeres to instant ports. And Warriors are not the only ones that can have ALL of what you said.

What i mean is that this trait alone makes their mobility questionable on their weapons, especially GS. Beside that you take either the passive 25% movement bonus and / or using Signet of Rage with high swiftness uptime. I admit, swiftness isn’t that good in combat and can be removed, but at least they have options.

Yes they have options. Totaly agree with you.
Just a thought:
You can see the strength of warrior gap closers in their constant need of dogged march, melandry runes and food.

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Warriors have better “in combat” movement than guardians. Guardians have 3 gap closers (1 being a utility). Warriors have 2 gap closers on one weapon (a 1200 range and a 450 ranger), 1 on another weapon (600 range on very short cd), and a utility with 900 range. You can make the argument that thieves have better in combat movement than wars, but that’s just 1 class. No other class in the game comes close to warriors/thieves in ability to close the gap.

Yes you are right. Warrior as more access to gap closers than guardian.
Guardian gap closeres are more efective as gap closers (in combat). Warriors can use theirs to gap closer but they are unreliable to hit unlike guardian. In combat (no runs), guardian gap closers are way more efective than warrior ones.

How are they more effective? GS skill 5 messes up quite a bit to be fair, but it still does close the gap even if you miss the attack itself. GS skill 3 has to be aimed but it never messes up, it does great damage, and it evades. Sword skill 2 works like guardian GS skill 3 except it’s shorter but on shorter cooldown. I do not see how the Guardian ones are superior.

To be clear here, idk if you actually play Guardian a lot. My main is a Guard and my 2nd is a Warrior. I know that Warrior GS skill 5 can get messed up, but it still works as a gap closer even if not always as an attack. Another HUGE issue is 2/3 guard gap closers must have a target (sword 2, and judge’s intervention). You don’t need a target for any warrior ones. This means you can use warrior ones to catch targets you know general location of but are stealthed; you can use it to get AHEAD of running opponents; you can use them to place your character in optimum position; and finally can use them to run.

The warrior ones provide superior gap closing functionality (esp considering you have two tied to one single weapon, whereas guard has to take 1h and 2h swords), and they have far more utility in general.

They are more efective because they are ports (with the exception of leap of faith). You can ignore movement control efects, wells and traps between doing those skills and they are instant.

In combat situation guardian is better but in land movement warrior is better.

Warrior’s very strong condi cleansing that is available to 90% of war builds counters movement impeding condis, and the fact that we have multiple traits that directly counter movement impeding condis. Simply put, 95% of the time, a gap closer is not going to be messed up by condis while playing a warrior.

Also, most guardians do not run meditations (PvE, zergs, and team roaming highly favor shouts). The fact that the only way Guard can compete with war is by running their only 2 weapons with mobility AND a lesser utilitized set of utilities is sort of sad if you think about it. Even then guard would have a hard time gap closing as well as a War who only uses GS.

Artaz.3819:

Arius.7031:

Deimos Tel Arin.7391:

this is working as intended.
warriors are meant to be fast.
what is the problem?

do you remember that warriors have no direct access to:
- stealth
- illusions
- death shroud
- pets
- minions
- protection, aegis

warriors are balanced and not overpowered, it has been more than a year since launch, please accept that already.

Most other classes don’t have access to:

-Very strong heals
-Highest armor class
-Highest HP pool
-Immunity to condis/damage via stances (including shield stance)
-Utilities that can heal for 2k+ that also have strong utility aside from that

Etc… You forget that wars have access to defensive things that other classes do not. Before you “oh he’s just whining blah blah blah”, I have a level 80 warrior that I roam in WvW with quite a bit.

To be fair, could you list out everything that all other classes have for defense? We need a full list for comparability if you are going through with this argument. /tangent

warriors do not have strongest heals guardians do.
warriors do not have highest hp pools necroes do.
every class in the game has utilities that heal on use, why dont you use yours?
it is not an IMMUNITY to conditions it is a condi cleanse its a big difference it takes up a utility slot and once used goes on cooldown.

THE ONLY THING THAT IS RIGHT IS THE ARMOR CLASS, AND WITHOUT ARMOR ITS NOT A WARRIOR ANY MORE ITS A THIEF.

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arius.7031:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Warriors have better “in combat” movement than guardians. Guardians have 3 gap closers (1 being a utility). Warriors have 2 gap closers on one weapon (a 1200 range and a 450 ranger), 1 on another weapon (600 range on very short cd), and a utility with 900 range. You can make the argument that thieves have better in combat movement than wars, but that’s just 1 class. No other class in the game comes close to warriors/thieves in ability to close the gap.

Yes you are right. Warrior as more access to gap closers than guardian.
Guardian gap closeres are more efective as gap closers (in combat). Warriors can use theirs to gap closer but they are unreliable to hit unlike guardian. In combat (no runs), guardian gap closers are way more efective than warrior ones.

How are they more effective? GS skill 5 messes up quite a bit to be fair, but it still does close the gap even if you miss the attack itself. GS skill 3 has to be aimed but it never messes up, it does great damage, and it evades. Sword skill 2 works like guardian GS skill 3 except it’s shorter but on shorter cooldown. I do not see how the Guardian ones are superior.

To be clear here, idk if you actually play Guardian a lot. My main is a Guard and my 2nd is a Warrior. I know that Warrior GS skill 5 can get messed up, but it still works as a gap closer even if not always as an attack. Another HUGE issue is 2/3 guard gap closers must have a target (sword 2, and judge’s intervention). You don’t need a target for any warrior ones. This means you can use warrior ones to catch targets you know general location of but are stealthed; you can use it to get AHEAD of running opponents; you can use them to place your character in optimum position; and finally can use them to run.

The warrior ones provide superior gap closing functionality (esp considering you have two tied to one single weapon, whereas guard has to take 1h and 2h swords), and they have far more utility in general.

They are more efective because they are ports (with the exception of leap of faith). You can ignore movement control efects, wells and traps between doing those skills and they are instant.

In combat situation guardian is better but in land movement warrior is better.

Warrior’s very strong condi cleansing that is available to 90% of war builds counters movement impeding condis, and the fact that we have multiple traits that directly counter movement impeding condis. Simply put, 95% of the time, a gap closer is not going to be messed up by condis while playing a warrior.

Also, most guardians do not run meditations (PvE, zergs, and team roaming highly favor shouts). The fact that the only way Guard can compete with war is by running their only 2 weapons with mobility AND a lesser utilitized set of utilities is sort of sad if you think about it. Even then guard would have a hard time gap closing as well as a War who only uses GS.

I thought we were talking about movement and not condicion cleanses.

If i need a target for sword 2 on warrior. Make it also a teleport.. And give me some evade/reflect also on sword 3 or something.. Because if you need a target to use leap(>>leap..) you make warr also very vulnerable because i cant leap away now.. What other classes can with gapclosing skills or other skills like going into stealth as an example..
Every class can do this except necro, but they have ways to create a gap also > fear.

So i dont see any reason for this.

About gs, yes it sucks you cant kill him with that range.. But thats the same for thiefs.. Its just trolling.
And if i see a gs warrior i alreay know i win.. Or they run.. Thats OK also

lunatyk.6172:

Warrior needs a nerf?
Coming from the most OP class in game since launch… hmmmm okay. Can they have all your illusions+Invis+Evades PLoxxxx

FYI THIEF IS THE MOST MOBILE ILL BET 1K GOLD.

Your reading comprehension needs a buff. Thread never said “warriors need a nerf”, but that warriors Landspeed needs to be balanced.

Better luck next time.

Ross Biddle.2367:

lunatyk.6172:

Warrior needs a nerf?
Coming from the most OP class in game since launch… hmmmm okay. Can they have all your illusions+Invis+Evades PLoxxxx

FYI THIEF IS THE MOST MOBILE ILL BET 1K GOLD.

Your reading comprehension needs a buff. Thread never said “warriors need a nerf”, but that warriors Landspeed needs to be balanced.

Better luck next time.

Well if you mean a balance for this so you need a target.. That would be a very hard nerf

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Dogged march supposed to help them in combat mobility. Melandru runes and Lemongrass can help even more.

Yes but that dont turn warrior gap closeres to instant ports. And Warriors are not the only ones that can have ALL of what you said.

What i mean is that this trait alone makes their mobility questionable on their weapons, especially GS. Beside that you take either the passive 25% movement bonus and / or using Signet of Rage with high swiftness uptime. I admit, swiftness isn’t that good in combat and can be removed, but at least they have options.

Yes they have options. Totaly agree with you.
Just a thought:
You can see the strength of warrior gap closers in their constant need of dogged march, melandry runes and food.

That trait (and the whole setup) is highly optimal in the current condi heavy environment. Warrior need to be a “in your face” type of class, independent of build, so a passive reduction on movement imparing effects makes sense and i find it highly acceptable. However, paired with their movement skills just doesn’t feel right, especially how elementalists got treated for the same reason with RTL months ago.
GS has two mobilty skills with great range (rush alone is 1200 range, seriously?), more or less fast animations and one of them has an evade frame too? Thats a bit silly, isn’kitten
Add in the other frustrating factors warriors have nowadays with stances and voila … OP imbalanced demi-god for your service.

nicknamenick.2437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

lunatyk.6172:

Warrior needs a nerf?
Coming from the most OP class in game since launch… hmmmm okay. Can they have all your illusions+Invis+Evades PLoxxxx

FYI THIEF IS THE MOST MOBILE ILL BET 1K GOLD.

Your reading comprehension needs a buff. Thread never said “warriors need a nerf”, but that warriors Landspeed needs to be balanced.

Better luck next time.

Well if you mean a balance for this so you need a target.. That would be a very hard nerf

As i said, those kind of nerfs must also bring buffs to gap closers reliability and i dont think ANet have plans to give ports to warriors.

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Dogged march supposed to help them in combat mobility. Melandru runes and Lemongrass can help even more.

Yes but that dont turn warrior gap closeres to instant ports. And Warriors are not the only ones that can have ALL of what you said.

What i mean is that this trait alone makes their mobility questionable on their weapons, especially GS. Beside that you take either the passive 25% movement bonus and / or using Signet of Rage with high swiftness uptime. I admit, swiftness isn’t that good in combat and can be removed, but at least they have options.

Yes they have options. Totaly agree with you.
Just a thought:
You can see the strength of warrior gap closers in their constant need of dogged march, melandry runes and food.

That trait (and the whole setup) is highly optimal in the current condi heavy environment. Warrior need to be a “in your face” type of class, independent of build, so a passive reduction on movement imparing effects makes sense and i find it highly acceptable. However, paired with their movement skills just doesn’t feel right, especially how elementalists got treated for the same reason with RTL months ago.
GS has two mobilty skills with great range (rush alone is 1200 range, seriously?), more or less fast animations and one of them has an evade frame too? Thats a bit silly, isn’kitten
Add in the other frustrating factors warriors have nowadays with stances and voila … OP imbalanced demi-god for your service.

If RTL worked exactly like GS 5 (same animation, weekness, miss ratio, same cooldown, travel time) would you think that its ok?
If so why dont tell that to ANet so they can do the change (assuming they want to). RTL its not a warrior problem.

coglin.1867:

It has bothered me for a long time that I spend traits or utilities for mobility just to see some other profession create a gap while running away by using skills designed for gap closing.

I am okay with the skills that require ground targeting of some kind. But skills like rush should require a target that is in range to function.

In before they nerf such skills the same way they nerfed Ride the Lightning. Gonna be a tear-filled day…

Xenon.4537:

coglin.1867:

It has bothered me for a long time that I spend traits or utilities for mobility just to see some other profession create a gap while running away by using skills designed for gap closing.

I am okay with the skills that require ground targeting of some kind. But skills like rush should require a target that is in range to function.

In before they nerf such skills the same way they nerfed Ride the Lightning. Gonna be a tear-filled day…

Expecialy elementalist if is given the same treatment to RTL.

I’ve played a lot of MMOs and never before have I seen one with as much blatant class bias as Guild Wars 2. Why on earth does the most heavily armored class in the game also offer superior mobility? It’s time to get serious about class roles and stop bullkittenting your community with balance patches that do nothing but unbalance the game further.

silentnight warrior.2714:

nicknamenick.2437:

Ross Biddle.2367:

lunatyk.6172:

Warrior needs a nerf?
Coming from the most OP class in game since launch… hmmmm okay. Can they have all your illusions+Invis+Evades PLoxxxx

FYI THIEF IS THE MOST MOBILE ILL BET 1K GOLD.

Your reading comprehension needs a buff. Thread never said “warriors need a nerf”, but that warriors Landspeed needs to be balanced.

Better luck next time.

Well if you mean a balance for this so you need a target.. That would be a very hard nerf

As i said, those kind of nerfs must also bring buffs to gap closers reliability and i dont think ANet have plans to give ports to warriors.

I tjink you didnt read it good.. That person is (ross..) talking about a balance for warrior gapclosing skill.. But what they suggest is a hard nerf…

silentnight warrior.2714:

Xenon.4537:

coglin.1867:

It has bothered me for a long time that I spend traits or utilities for mobility just to see some other profession create a gap while running away by using skills designed for gap closing.

I am okay with the skills that require ground targeting of some kind. But skills like rush should require a target that is in range to function.

In before they nerf such skills the same way they nerfed Ride the Lightning. Gonna be a tear-filled day…

Expecialy elementalist if is given the same treatment to RTL.

RTL already got heavily nerfed because it was being used for escape and not for gap closing, or did you forget?
It used to be on a 15 second cooldown with 1500 range, now it is on a 40 second cooldown if it misses, 20 if it hits, and had its range reduced to 1200, in case you haven’t been around long enough to remember. Most of us just want warrior dedicated “gap closers” to be given the same treatment.

Fungalfoot.7213:

I’ve played a lot of MMOs and never before have I seen one with as much blatant class bias as Guild Wars 2. Why on earth does the most heavily armored class in the game also offer superior mobility? It’s time to get serious about class roles and stop bullkittenting your community with balance patches that do nothing but unbalance the game further.

Armor doesnt say anything… its warrior!! They are never slow (except every weapon skill..)

Remove the idea of heavy armor cant run..
Because stealth issnt real also did you know?

So with that out of your mind. Think about what every class can do to engage anf dis-engage.. And you see all classes have ways to do that (doesnt have to be a gapclosing skill, could be a skill to create a gap > fear.. Or to confuse like mesmer can do good.. Or ofc disappear) and some classes can stack this like sword/gs warriors.. But again they are often just trolling around.. Its not the best build to go for a duel

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Dalanor.5387:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

silentnight warrior.2714:

Arlette.9684:

Artaz.3819:

The problem is removing Warrior mobility is how do you also solve for Warriors keeping other players in melee combat range too? Would you prefer Warriors having hard CC and/or spammable movement impairing conditions on every weapon?

I know my answer. Two sides to the coin.

Guardian doesn’t have soft CC or spammable impairing conditions on any weapon and their mechanics work like RTL. What’s your point? Are you saying they need to give Guardian a spammable impairing conditions on every weapon so they can stick on target?

Guardian have very good GAP CLOSERS on sword and gs. There is a huge diference between landspeed movement and combat movement. There are classes way more efective in combat movement and less efective in landspeed movement (comparing to warrior).

Now there is a class that have the best combat movement and the best (or second best) landscape movement. Cannot remember the class name right now…
Thi… Thi…
Nevermind…
Tomorrow i will remember.

You just said it, I took the liberty of highlighting it, gap closers not free ride to Japan and back at light speed. The fact is that Warriors have too many options with their so called “gap closers”, the term itself suggests you will be running TO and not running FROM.

Yes… I´m glad because you get the point.

There is a diference in combat movement and landspeed movement. Warriors have better landspeed and worst combat movement. It would be unbalanced if they had both. But they not. A nerf to landspeed movement will lead to a buff to combat movement.

Dogged march supposed to help them in combat mobility. Melandru runes and Lemongrass can help even more.

Yes but that dont turn warrior gap closeres to instant ports. And Warriors are not the only ones that can have ALL of what you said.

What i mean is that this trait alone makes their mobility questionable on their weapons, especially GS. Beside that you take either the passive 25% movement bonus and / or using Signet of Rage with high swiftness uptime. I admit, swiftness isn’t that good in combat and can be removed, but at least they have options.

Yes they have options. Totaly agree with you.
Just a thought:
You can see the strength of warrior gap closers in their constant need of dogged march, melandry runes and food.

That trait (and the whole setup) is highly optimal in the current condi heavy environment. Warrior need to be a “in your face” type of class, independent of build, so a passive reduction on movement imparing effects makes sense and i find it highly acceptable. However, paired with their movement skills just doesn’t feel right, especially how elementalists got treated for the same reason with RTL months ago.
GS has two mobilty skills with great range (rush alone is 1200 range, seriously?), more or less fast animations and one of them has an evade frame too? Thats a bit silly, isn’kitten
Add in the other frustrating factors warriors have nowadays with stances and voila … OP imbalanced demi-god for your service.

If RTL worked exactly like GS 5 (same animation, weekness, miss ratio, same cooldown, travel time) would you think that its ok?
If so why dont tell that to ANet so they can do the change (assuming they want to). RTL its not a warrior problem.

There is some reason why developers found RTL to be used as an escape tool is bad without downsides, so i would say yes. With this change the opponents have a chance to recover and the warrior won’t came back 10 seconds later to fight again and escape again 10 second later.
This thread made for this reason.
Not directly, but it is. Stating that X effect is OP on a class, nerfing it and keeping it on another class, which cause the same problem against others doesn’t feel right to me.

edit: P Fun Daddy summed up really good this a few post above me.