Guild Wars 2

The PU mesmer is hated because GW2 has to many wanna be 1v1 players who desire to be heroes.

The PU specs offer absolutely nothing in terms of SPvP group play, WvW group play or in any PvE environment.

So what does the PU mesmer do then that offends so many people? It duels and roams very well. That’s all it does and all it can do. The spec is not broken at all. Quite frankly it’s about as balanced as you can possibly get

The spec gives up all other aspects of game play to 1v1 or roam.

That above statement is the perfect example of balance.

If the PU mesmer was also amazing at group play in terms of both pve, spvp and wvw then yes I would agree the spec would be far to powerful.

There are far more broken classes in this game that can do almost as well 1v1 as the PU mesmer but also are incredibly strong in group play and pve.

People have to get it through their heads that no game will ever be balanced for 1v1 play – and one class will always be a dominant one in that area.

King Amadaeus.8619:

Handin.4032:

Fuzzion.2504:

Even mesmers are now worried that PU mesmers are giving the class a bad name.

Im sure they are on the chopping board for nerfs.

I fully agree with this. I’ve been playing mesmer as my main since the game came out, and since they changed PU to its current form, I noticed one main thing: So many new mesmers suddenly started blindly using 20/20/30 just for PU. I’ve had to explain so many times why a phantasm build doesn’t work well with 20/20/30, and have had that mesmer say stuff like “but how do you live without PU!” PU is mostly used as a crutch, and they all tend to use the SAME 3 utilities (at least they use blink/decoy+MI). It makes it very easy to predict, and they tend to not delve deeper into knowing the class. The reason, imo, that it is starting to give the profession a bad name is because there are plenty of mesmers who say stuff like “But we NEED PU to survive!” Which is entirely not true.

In the end, I don’t dislike the trait itself, however the fact it is fairly unbalanced makes newer mesmers just blindly use one trait set and then claim they need it to survive and depend entirely on using PU to be competitive. It makes mesmer seem like a shallow class. However, there are still many great mesmers (some who use PU, some who don’t) despite this who endure the nerfs mesmer takes and adapt.

Well if we start throwing out nerfs everytime noobs say noobish things, then warrior and thief are absolutely kittenED.

Sadly for mesmers when the forums go ablaze, we see nerfs incoming, i.e: glamour fields (now effectively useless…), portal nerf (which really didn’t change anything they were complaining about), condi death (I can admit this needed a nerf). PU will definitely be next, which personally I’m fine it..it will let people use the crutch build less, even if PU was put to how it was originally.

Straegen.2938:

If only thieves had that ability! They can remove 1 every 3 seconds but under any kind of control pressure that does not keep up.

Whoops! You are most correct. I obviously need to spend more time in Shadow Arts.

Handin.4032:

King Amadaeus.8619:

Handin.4032:

Fuzzion.2504:

Even mesmers are now worried that PU mesmers are giving the class a bad name.

Im sure they are on the chopping board for nerfs.

I fully agree with this. I’ve been playing mesmer as my main since the game came out, and since they changed PU to its current form, I noticed one main thing: So many new mesmers suddenly started blindly using 20/20/30 just for PU. I’ve had to explain so many times why a phantasm build doesn’t work well with 20/20/30, and have had that mesmer say stuff like “but how do you live without PU!” PU is mostly used as a crutch, and they all tend to use the SAME 3 utilities (at least they use blink/decoy+MI). It makes it very easy to predict, and they tend to not delve deeper into knowing the class. The reason, imo, that it is starting to give the profession a bad name is because there are plenty of mesmers who say stuff like “But we NEED PU to survive!” Which is entirely not true.

In the end, I don’t dislike the trait itself, however the fact it is fairly unbalanced makes newer mesmers just blindly use one trait set and then claim they need it to survive and depend entirely on using PU to be competitive. It makes mesmer seem like a shallow class. However, there are still many great mesmers (some who use PU, some who don’t) despite this who endure the nerfs mesmer takes and adapt.

Well if we start throwing out nerfs everytime noobs say noobish things, then warrior and thief are absolutely kittenED.

Sadly for mesmers when the forums go ablaze, we see nerfs incoming, i.e: glamour fields (now effectively useless…), portal nerf (which really didn’t change anything they were complaining about), condi death (I can admit this needed a nerf). PU will definitely be next, which personally I’m fine it..it will let people use the crutch build less, even if PU was put to how it was originally.

My problem with nerfs like these are this:

You take all the originality out of the game by doing things like this.

Should we all just roll warriors and stand toe to toe swinging hammers are each other until we die? That is the tone I keep hearing on these forums.

PU mesmer is a 1v1 or roaming build. That’s it – funny thing is it is not unkillable like most are saying.. It was a neat build that offered a totally different play style then any other build in game.

If I wanted to play Rock’em Sock’em robots in PvP id just go play an FPS.

Azreell.1568:

The PU specs offer absolutely nothing in terms of SPvP group play, WvW group play or in any PvE environment.

I dont know where you are getting at with the WvW part of that comment. They might be useless in zergs, but PU Mesmers are amazingly strong in small group settings.

Support wise they have Mass Invis for ressing/group disengage, and some nice condi clearing mechanics with the mantra/phantasm. Supporting offensively, they have invulnerability/stealth stomps, a stun on pistol offhand and an immobilize on sword mainhand. And the body blocking and distractions of clones/phantasms in chaotic battles that you often see in WvW (where there is less coordination) is a lot stronger than most people, including Anet, give credit to (sort of like other mechanics like the current state of the Blind condition since it was fixed).

For small group down to solo roaming there isn’t anything in the game more brokenly OP than a PU Mesmer (except Warrior or D/P Thief maybe). Ive seen roaming groups running with naked PU Mesmers wrecking enemies with good sucess.

It is hated beacause

1st : it is a faceroll build, no skill required
2nd : too many stealth spamming
3rd : does not contribute much in a 5v5 (ofc it will help if you are really good or enemy team is really bad), most people just ignore it as a whole.
4th : no reason to fight with them in a 1v1
5th : conditions

Azreell.1568:

The PU mesmer is hated because GW2 has to many wanna be 1v1 players who desire to be heroes.

Fun fact: almost any fotm reroller PU mesmer is a wannabe hero 1v1 player.

“Hey look I beat him, im so gud!”

Simon.3794:

It is hated beacause

1st : it is a faceroll build, no skill required
2nd : too many stealth spamming
3rd : does not contribute much in a 5v5 (ofc it will help if you are really good or enemy team is really bad), most people just ignore it as a whole.
4th : no reason to fight with them in a 1v1
5th : conditions

1)Spirit Ranger, Warriors, Necros, – All have specs that could be considered skilless And are also all complained about on the forums.

2)To much stealth spamming is like complaining a class uses it’s skills to much? The spec/class is based on that much like the thief.

3)EXACTLY MY POINT – the spec is built for 1v1’s and solo roaming. It’s terrible in group settings so it gives up all viability in all other aspects of the game to be good at one particular area. That is the definition of balance brah.

4)Correct – You don’t have to fight them 1v1 and you can easily escape them. Once again that screams balanced to me.

5)Conditions – This is about the only point you have any valid concerns over.

Because of target dropping. This is a problem with thieves, but thieves don’t spam clones on top of target dropping. Combined with the fact that PU gives almost as many stealth benefits as a stealth traited thief, the mesmer can slip in and out of stealth too easily and there is no reason for him to break stealth because that counteracts PU. I don’t think a single trait should offer huge rewards for spending as much of your game time in stealth as possible. It’s boring and it’s pointless.

calavel.6249:

Because of target dropping. This is a problem with thieves, but thieves don’t spam clones on top of target dropping. Combined with the fact that PU gives almost as many stealth benefits as a stealth traited thief, the mesmer can slip in and out of stealth too easily and there is no reason for him to break stealth because that counteracts PU. I don’t think a single trait should offer huge rewards for spending as much of your game time in stealth as possible. It’s boring and it’s pointless.

While you may not like it and I understand the reasoning.

It’s a duel spec. Nothing more nothing less.

In saying that I expect it to be difficult to fight 1v1.

I just don’t understand the logic of those complaining.

Compare it to the warrior for example: Heavy Armor class, Top Tier in Dmg, One of the fastest classes in game, Some of the best passive healing(healing sig), amazing in wvw, spvp and pve.

That is the definition of broken since it can accomplish many of those things at once.

PU is just too easy, low skill cap, high reward low risk.
But this is a problem of the whole game. Almost every prof got their ’’cheesy’’ build that is really good at something. The only thing mesmer lacks is potential other viable builds in both roaming, as well as in large scale WvW.
I’ve played PU myself a lot and I just notice how easy it is to win almost any 1v1 or 1v2. The spike shatter has isn’t really much higher than pu phantasm got, while shatter got a much lower survivability.
PU got too much in 1. Regen, prot and aegis +1 sec longer stealth is just too much. Wereas thief loses his stealth when attacking, a mesmer can still deal a lot damage while being stealthed.
Something that slipped through my mind was a change to stealth overall. Theres so much qq about perm stealth specs that I thought like, maybe it can be changed to this:
‘’When stealthing within 8(/10) seconds from the previous stealth, your stealth will last 1 second shorter. This goes on till the 10 seconds have passed from your last used stealth, meaning you would get 2 sec shorter stealth if you use a stealth within the 10 seconds of the 2nd used stealth in the chain and 3 sec shorter stealth when you use it within the 10 seconds of the 3rd used stealth in the chain.’’

I’ve always acknowledged what pu really is and I don’t mind running it in roaming.
Why? Because roaming is not about running ’’fair’’ builds that have multiple counters for enemies so you can make it easy for people who don’t run ’’fair’’ builds to kill you.
Roaming is about who’s the winner in the end, the enemy or you. No matter which build you run, no matter how many stacks you got, its about who wins from who. I hate dieing in roaming and I’m sure many others do. Those who wanna be ’’good’’ in roaming are almost bound to run the best possible build in game, which is PU for roaming.
This is the same as chosing between a 25 man raid with 60% front line or a raid with 20% front line. Exactly, people will go for the 60% because that’s how it works the best. You don’t go crumble off the meta gameplay, because you might just lose to less skilled people with better builds. You can call them lame, but they don’t give a kitten. They killed you, so they are satisfied.
This is the same for roaming what I described above. You don’t go ‘’oh you killed me with that build so lameee’‘, no you go ’’kitten yeah winning 1v3+ like a baws’’. I personally get as much fun out of PU as with shatter. The main reason to that is that I can’t win every fight with shatter, which I probably could with pu so i have to run off, but the 1v1’s and 1v2’s are more fun to fight. So it’s a win-lose situation for both builds.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/mesmer/What-is-so-bad-about-a-PU-mesmer/page/3

I admit it.

I caved.

I totally bloody caved and made a power based PU setup.

You know what? I can now face-tank Warriors and Guardians (don’t take that literally, I still utilize active defences) thanks to the protection and regeneration and aegis from PU, and auto-attack to stab away their boons.

And do you know WHY I caved?

It’s because I was backed into this position.

Where I had to if I wanted to come out on top of a fight, whether it be staying alive long enough to pick away weakened targets in a group fight (primarily this with the AoE flying around) or to res a fallen ally, or 1 vs 1 which I loathe and find totally boring and I actually try to avoid if I can. It also helps me disengage with relative safety, seeing as Blink simply is not enough on it’s own with the multitude of gap-closers on heavies and thieves.

Oh I was so wrong to shun PU in the past. Sure I find ~condition~ PU setups boring and silly but I’ve found I’m using it differently from I would have thought I did. Those boons. Oh I love those boons.

For solo roaming, it’s very hard to survive without PU, especially in higher tiers with large populations. And because of mesmers’ limited role on zergs, and the fact that it’s fun to go solo roam from time to time, mesmers need some survival mechanic that let’s them choose fights, flee when necessary, potwntially take on more than one opponent, and survive against backstab thieves. PU unfortunately meets all these criteria, which is why many solo roaming mesmers take it. That’s it. Stealth is what lets mesmers and thieves solo roam so well.

The minute I run with one or more people I ditch PU as fast as I can, because there are so many more fun and potent traits and builds. But for solo roaming, it just has too many advantages.

And this is also why people complain about it. Because in 1v1 fights, there is no one else to blame for a loss than yourself, or what you perceive as a broken mechanic. And it’s easier to blame the latter.

And in truth, PU is overrated. If the PU mesmer is running condis, you can generally flee with ease. If they’re running power, than their damage is necessarily limited, and you should be able to survive their dps.

Again, I fall back on PU when I solo roam because mesmers’ other defensive mechanics are nowhere near as good. I wish they were better so I could move away from PU. Bit until then, I’ll likely continue to fall back on it.

Lets see hmm
1. The cancer understanding mesmer ddosent even have to fight you to win.
2. Every time u attack the real mesmer, the cancer understanding mesmer will blink/ stealth away.
3 unlike thiefs where a smart prediction of movement and planning is part of the fight, there is no counter play or tactics involve in fighting a cancer understanding mesmer unless you build full cheese/ condi cheese.
4 cancer mesmers not good in pvp. My bum! 2 cancer understanding mesmers can hold a point against 4 opponents easily.
5 out of all the 3 builds I play for spvp, cancer understanding, shatter and phantasm. Cancer understanding requires the least skill. Even lesser than hambow.

6 more aegis then a class whose specialty is having aegis

IFreedom.4637:

Lets see hmm
1. The cancer understanding mesmer ddosent even have to fight you to win.
2. Every time u attack the real mesmer, the cancer understanding mesmer will blink/ stealth away.
3 unlike thiefs where a smart prediction of movement and planning is part of the fight, there is no counter play or tactics involve in fighting a cancer understanding mesmer unless you build full cheese/ condi cheese.
4 cancer mesmers not good in pvp. My bum! 2 cancer understanding mesmers can hold a point against 4 opponents easily.
5 out of all the 3 builds I play for spvp, cancer understanding, shatter and phantasm. Cancer understanding requires the least skill. Even lesser than hambow.

6 more aegis then a class whose specialty is having aegis

Curse those oncologist mesmers.

^Definitely the autocorrect comment of the year.

Low Risk High Reward. Great build for 1v1 or more fights but not that useful in tPvP.

As for those people saying saying that mesmer stealth skills have generally high cooldowns, who told you that you need to pop all your stealths in the span of 10 seconds.

Simple solution…
1. Give mesmers their good burst back.
2. Un-do one of the nerfs to blurred frenzy (IDC which)
3. Give mesmers better AOE support (mantras can suck it.)

Right now PU is the only decent mesmer build. Even hard core shatter lovers like osicat have given up on shatter because ANET has gutted mesmer burst inside and out. Now a shatter mesmer has to play a keyboard concerto to even make a remotely decent dent in a hammer warrior…

Basically all mesmers have going for them now is some variant of a PU build.

jportell.2197:

Simple solution…
1. Give mesmers their good burst back.
2. Un-do one of the nerfs to blurred frenzy (IDC which)
3. Give mesmers better AOE support (mantras can suck it.)

Right now PU is the only decent mesmer build. Even hard core shatter lovers like osicat have given up on shatter because ANET has gutted mesmer burst inside and out. Now a shatter mesmer has to play a keyboard concerto to even make a remotely decent dent in a hammer warrior…

Basically all mesmers have going for them now is some variant of a PU build.

I think one of the main reasons why Shatter Mesmer has fallen off in tPvP is not because of the lack of burst but rather Thieves can do better defensively because of their better access to stealth while maintaining high burst/sustain damage similar to a shatter mesmer.

Arius.7031:

Well engi can definitely apply a lot of condis if rng is kind, especially with grenades (grenade skill 2, if traited properly, can apply 9 bleeds if all grenades hit with grenadier) but I don’t really see how they can apply more condis than a phantasm pu mesmer.

This was a good one. I assume you mean these 2 traits:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrapnel
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharpshooter
with:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrapnel_Grenade

Assuming relatively high precision and 50% critical chance rate, the likelihood of getting 9 bleeds out of one shrapnel grenade with these two traits is:
0.15*0.15*0.15*0.3*0.3*0.3*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.000011 = 0.0011%
That is roughly 1 in 100000s. And the bleeds from Sharpshooter trait last mere 3 seconds!

But back to the topic:
The problem with PU mesmers are the following:

1. Ability to cause damage without getting revealed via illusions
- If any illusion attack which would hit would also caused revealed this would be a significant nerf towards PU
- would greatly increase the skill floor needed to play PU mesmer, because now just one small attack from any clone or phantasm would trigger revealed

2. High access to damage mitigation
- Swapping places with clones is already powerful damage mitigation in small scale situations, but PU has 33% chance for protection and 33% chance for regeneration, which can trigger Illusionary Membrane trait (15 s cooldown), which gives also protection.
- most PU mesmers have high uptime of protection and high toughness, giving them high survivability against any direct damage
- reduce protection uptime and PU will no longer feel overpowered

3. Requires little skill to play effectively and still faceroll 1 vs 1-3 encounters
- this is debatable, but I think almost everybody agrees that fighting against PU mesmers isn’t fun, but you can generally just run away from these fights and do something more useful

I don’t think PU mesmer is a good build for tpvp, because you cannot contest points while being stealthed. It obviously isn’t a good build for WvWvW zerging, but in small scale it seems to be overpowered. I have seen enemy PU mesmer troll 2-4 allies from my server without getting killed. These solo or duo roaming PU mesmers can flip supply camps with very low risk of getting killed on the way. And obviously snipe all the dollies and sentries. And harass small groups and solo roamers.

I do quite a lot of solo roaming in WvWvW myself and I see these 3 professions over represented as solo roamers:
- thieves (which obviously rely on stealth, no surprise here)
- mesmers (most use PU)
- warrior (most use greatsword for superior mobility)

Stealth and mobility are the key things here. I think stealth in GW2 is implemented in a bad way. This game has no “see invisibility” skills. Besides the ranger Sic’ ’em, there is no way to reveal stealthed opponents (nobody uses the stealth trap and it is not practical in small scale combat at all). In WvWvW stealth gives an extremely easy way to reset a fight gone wrong (leading to low risk, high reward builds) and also allows stealth stomping, getting back into your tower/keep surrounded by hostile forces. My suggestion is:

Stealthed opponents should be rendered semi transparent to their enemies as well, just like they appear to their allies. This would require minimal code changes as the code is already there. Stealthed opponents could still not be targeted by skills which require a target, but this would remove the guess work where the stealthed opponent is. Currently trying to hit the stealthed opponent with AoE is more or less random if the stealthed opponent is playing smartly.

Any other way to change stealth would require complete overhaul of the thief profession kitten many thief traits and even autoattack skills (e.g. backstab) rely on stealth.

The thing I find funny about my mesmer and stealth… phantasm creation is considered an attack (why blind =‘s no phant among other things) yet that attack from stealth doesn’t cause revealed or a destealth. Not saying it’s OP bla bla bla but it just doesn’t logically fit within the set rules of the game.

Preface:
The sheer amount of misinformation is staggering.
I’m not talking about “Yes, but this isn’t feasible”-types of lacking knowledge. I’m talking basic, didn’t-read-the-skill, lack of information.

Just what I could gather at first glance.

Arius.7031:

Shatter 3, decent length daze.
Shatter 4, decent length invuln.
Sword 2, invuln on low cd + very solid damage.
Pistol 5, daze.
Scepter 2, block.
Perma vigor on most builds due to critical infusion.
Clones (confusing the player, soaking up projectiles etc…).

• It’s very difficult to get 2+ seconds of Daze out of F3 because it doesn’t depend on the player. 2s can sometimes be forced by a Sword-clone + Duelist, but then you’re wasting the hard-hitting phantasm in the process.
• Sword 2 isn’t invulnerability. Due to the self-CC it’s rather easy to punish the Mesmer for it, just use anything ground targeted. It’s an evade, not invul. :P
• Perma-vigor is getting nerfed, which is a nerf I very much agree with.

Adula.3698:

This means that illusionary berserker that hits for 5k can be spam cloned while the Mesmer afk’s in stealth.

I really don’t know what to say to this, except that either you’re playing a wholly different game, or you never actually played WvW, sPvP, or PvE alongside or as a Mesmer.
Hell, even reading the wiki would work in this case! -.-

Mizu.9387:

All of a sudden, none of skills will hit, since you need a target. You know he’s RIGHT THERE, you can fire your auto or whatever in that direction, but nothing will hit.

This is not true, and I’ve killed many a Thief by just attacking where I know they’ll be (crucial mistake many bad Thieves make, use Shadow Refuge while in attack range). Same for Mesmers, just keep hitting them. Even if they run, most players are awfully predictable.

(edit)
And if I had to guess why PU is so disliked, the causal chain is this:
1. I want to play 1v1, with my favourite spec.
2. I play 1v1, and I get killed by a 1v1-centric build.
3. It’s overpowered

PU is merely the epitome of that. Unlike 1v1 Thieves it’s not fragile, so it can survive the odd group fight. But it also dominates 1v1 engagements.

HOWEVER…

This is assuming (1) is fulfilled. And that’s the crux here, nothing about the classes is balanced around 1v1, yet you people continue and continue and continue to push the – broken – idea of 1v1 PvP.

Without wanting to sound overly insulting, have you played many RPGs before? They cannot balance below a teamsize equal or exceeding the effective number of classes. It’s part of the whole “strengths & weaknesses”-idea of classes. They specialize and differ. The moment you have that, the idea of 1v1 goes out of the window, you’ll always have a rock-paper-scissors-setup.

PU happens to be this:

• Blackwater is amazing at 1v1 when attacked.
• Power PU is solid at both defence and attacking in 1v1.
• Both are roughly useless as soon as you do team- or zerg-fights.

It’s quite RPS. And as a result easy to beat, just bring paper (that is, force team-fights – the PU mesmer is a liability to their team in that situation).

Kyon.9735:

jportell.2197:

Simple solution…
1. Give mesmers their good burst back.
2. Un-do one of the nerfs to blurred frenzy (IDC which)
3. Give mesmers better AOE support (mantras can suck it.)

Right now PU is the only decent mesmer build. Even hard core shatter lovers like osicat have given up on shatter because ANET has gutted mesmer burst inside and out. Now a shatter mesmer has to play a keyboard concerto to even make a remotely decent dent in a hammer warrior…

Basically all mesmers have going for them now is some variant of a PU build.

I think one of the main reasons why Shatter Mesmer has fallen off in tPvP is not because of the lack of burst but rather Thieves can do better defensively because of their better access to stealth while maintaining high burst/sustain damage similar to a shatter mesmer.

But before shatter mesmers could one shot thieves now its like “oh haha only half my health stealth!” Bam oneshot backstab HS hero combo.

jportell.2197:

Kyon.9735:

jportell.2197:

Simple solution…
1. Give mesmers their good burst back.
2. Un-do one of the nerfs to blurred frenzy (IDC which)
3. Give mesmers better AOE support (mantras can suck it.)

Right now PU is the only decent mesmer build. Even hard core shatter lovers like osicat have given up on shatter because ANET has gutted mesmer burst inside and out. Now a shatter mesmer has to play a keyboard concerto to even make a remotely decent dent in a hammer warrior…

Basically all mesmers have going for them now is some variant of a PU build.

I think one of the main reasons why Shatter Mesmer has fallen off in tPvP is not because of the lack of burst but rather Thieves can do better defensively because of their better access to stealth while maintaining high burst/sustain damage similar to a shatter mesmer.

But before shatter mesmers could one shot thieves now its like “oh haha only half my health stealth!” Bam oneshot backstab HS hero combo.

I don’t know about one-shotting thieves I think you can still do that given that thieves don’t spam evasive skills (like SB #3) or shadowstep away. Mesmer shatter burst is still deadly like scepter/dagger elementalist burst but they’re hard countered by thieves simply because thieves have more active defensive skills with their easy access evades from weapon skills and better access to stealth.

I know that feeling myself, recently I’ve bursted a thief in hotjoin down to 20% HP (I was sitting at 100%) but he was able to shadow step away and go to stealth. I definitely thought he’d run away so I walked off casually then got bursted by that same thief using 3 buttons (steal + backstab + HS) which ripped off all my health.

Kyon.9735:

jportell.2197:

Kyon.9735:

jportell.2197:

Simple solution…
1. Give mesmers their good burst back.
2. Un-do one of the nerfs to blurred frenzy (IDC which)
3. Give mesmers better AOE support (mantras can suck it.)

Right now PU is the only decent mesmer build. Even hard core shatter lovers like osicat have given up on shatter because ANET has gutted mesmer burst inside and out. Now a shatter mesmer has to play a keyboard concerto to even make a remotely decent dent in a hammer warrior…

Basically all mesmers have going for them now is some variant of a PU build.

I think one of the main reasons why Shatter Mesmer has fallen off in tPvP is not because of the lack of burst but rather Thieves can do better defensively because of their better access to stealth while maintaining high burst/sustain damage similar to a shatter mesmer.

But before shatter mesmers could one shot thieves now its like “oh haha only half my health stealth!” Bam oneshot backstab HS hero combo.

I don’t know about one-shotting thieves I think you can still do that given that thieves don’t spam evasive skills (like SB #3) or shadowstep away.

Sword/Dagger’s entire baseline of damage involves evading mid-attack and will tear a Mesmer to shreds. It received a nerf some time ago, but despite that it’s still dreadfully effective at what it does, without even needing to have a glass cannon amulet (which to be honest is what I have wanted to see in a long time, so I’m glad). I still see these specs running around and I do my best to avoid them if I can help it.

No one-shotting happening here unfortunately.

kylwilson.9137:

Kyon.9735:

jportell.2197:

Kyon.9735:

jportell.2197:

Simple solution…
1. Give mesmers their good burst back.
2. Un-do one of the nerfs to blurred frenzy (IDC which)
3. Give mesmers better AOE support (mantras can suck it.)

Right now PU is the only decent mesmer build. Even hard core shatter lovers like osicat have given up on shatter because ANET has gutted mesmer burst inside and out. Now a shatter mesmer has to play a keyboard concerto to even make a remotely decent dent in a hammer warrior…

Basically all mesmers have going for them now is some variant of a PU build.

I think one of the main reasons why Shatter Mesmer has fallen off in tPvP is not because of the lack of burst but rather Thieves can do better defensively because of their better access to stealth while maintaining high burst/sustain damage similar to a shatter mesmer.

But before shatter mesmers could one shot thieves now its like “oh haha only half my health stealth!” Bam oneshot backstab HS hero combo.

I don’t know about one-shotting thieves I think you can still do that given that thieves don’t spam evasive skills (like SB #3) or shadowstep away.

Sword/Dagger’s entire baseline of damage involves evading mid-attack and will tear a Mesmer to shreds. It received a nerf some time ago, but despite that it’s still dreadfully effective at what it does, without even needing to have a glass cannon amulet (which to be honest is what I have wanted to see in a long time, so I’m glad). I still see these specs running around and I do my best to avoid them if I can help it.

No one-shotting happening here unfortunately.

It doesn’t only shred Mesmers, it shreds any other class not running a decent tanky build. As someone who loves playing zerk, nothing’s more annoying than fighting a thief who spams offensive skills with evasion frames like Pistol Whip or Flanking Strike or Death Blossom. Shatter mesmers usually start their burst after a successful Illusionary Leap + Swap but it’s really annoying seeing thieves spam evasive skills to easily avoid your shatter burst.

I’m saying shatter mesmers CAN still 1 shot thieves depending on the situation, I’m not saying they CAN ALWAYS 1 shot thieves.

Deniara Devious.3948:

Arius.7031:

Well engi can definitely apply a lot of condis if rng is kind, especially with grenades (grenade skill 2, if traited properly, can apply 9 bleeds if all grenades hit with grenadier) but I don’t really see how they can apply more condis than a phantasm pu mesmer.

This was a good one. I assume you mean these 2 traits:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrapnel
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Sharpshooter
with:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shrapnel_Grenade

Assuming relatively high precision and 50% critical chance rate, the likelihood of getting 9 bleeds out of one shrapnel grenade with these two traits is:
0.15*0.15*0.15*0.3*0.3*0.3*0.5*0.5*0.5 = 0.000011 = 0.0011%
That is roughly 1 in 100000s. And the bleeds from Sharpshooter trait last mere 3 seconds!

How is that in any way relevant to my point? I was saying the skill itself CAN apply up to 9 bleeds, not that you would expect it to or that it does regularly. Also, engils will (by default) have 30% condi dur from getting grendier, and any worth their salt will have 40% of condi dur food, and can even further amplify with 10% from toxic condi dur utility (forgot name) and 10% from runes. The bleeds are not going to just last 3 seconds, so if you’re insistent on making sure everyone gets their facts straight, get your own facts straight.

Carighan.6758:

Preface:
The sheer amount of misinformation is staggering.
I’m not talking about “Yes, but this isn’t feasible”-types of lacking knowledge. I’m talking basic, didn’t-read-the-skill, lack of information.

Just what I could gather at first glance.

Arius.7031:

Shatter 3, decent length daze.
Shatter 4, decent length invuln.
Sword 2, invuln on low cd + very solid damage.
Pistol 5, daze.
Scepter 2, block.
Perma vigor on most builds due to critical infusion.
Clones (confusing the player, soaking up projectiles etc…).

• It’s very difficult to get 2+ seconds of Daze out of F3 because it doesn’t depend on the player. 2s can sometimes be forced by a Sword-clone + Duelist, but then you’re wasting the hard-hitting phantasm in the process.
• Sword 2 isn’t invulnerability. Due to the self-CC it’s rather easy to punish the Mesmer for it, just use anything ground targeted. It’s an evade, not invul. :P
• Perma-vigor is getting nerfed, which is a nerf I very much agree with.

I’d like to start by pointing out that, only 1 of your responses to my points had anything to do with “misinformation”.

-Right, that’s why I didn’t say it was 3 seconds of daze/invuln, because situations can vary and you can end up squeezing out 2 seconds by accident or just intentionally. You sometimes will end up sacrificing some offense for defense, but that’s a sacrifice that is common among classes.

-You dodge roll if you think a punish is incoming. It’s really not hard at all. With perma vigor, it’s super duper easy.

-True, but we’re talking about the current state of Mesmer and not the future state of it.

PU is basically the last viable build left for mesmers. Basically it is the last thing remaining from the Mesmer viability upgrade way back when. It is only viable in that PU makes it harder to kill a Mesmer. The black water types run with all defensive weaponsets and do terrible damage. The power types kitten their damage by going 30 in toughness line.

The only roamers left in WvW are d/p thieves and various mobility warrior builds. PU does poorly against these. I use PU to stealth back to the Zerg and swap out a torch for GS and become a mediocre ranged damage class. That is basically it for Mesmer. In every other facet of the game (pvp, pve, support, interrupts) it is done better by other classes.

It is not like the ppl still playing don’t have multiple L80 so it won’t be the end of the world. My warrior and thief are way better than my Mesmer in everything except 1200 distance ranged fights.

They hate it because it makes mesmers have a chance, the mighty warriors and guardians expect everyone to bend over and bow to their supremacy.

Azreell.1568:

While you may not like it and I understand the reasoning.

It’s a duel spec. Nothing more nothing less.

In saying that I expect it to be difficult to fight 1v1.

That’s simply not true. Target dropping becomes a progressively larger issue the more people depend on that target. If I target call a PU mesmer who is using lots of stealth, I can’t expect to hold that target for very long before he stealths. This is the same as a thief, no problem.

The real problem starts when the mesmer comes out of stealth, because there are 4 identical target and you have to find the right one. I’m not saying it’s hard but it can take a few seconds if you are pressured or you are in the middle of something else.
You don’t always notice them come out of stealth because you don’t know where it will happen and the clones don’t make it easier. Not because they’re doing damage but because you can’t tell without targeting if this is the mesmer or not (looking at food, karma buffs etc.) You can watch for movement patterns etc. but again, this all takes time and nobody has that time to waste in the middle of a fight.

This is frustrating because there is no obvious counter to this. It all depends on whether the mesmer is stupid/pressured enough to obviously reveal himself, like dodge rolling, jumping, strafing or other things clones can’t do.

I’m not saying 2-3 people who are dedicated can’t take down a PU mesmer, obviously not. But the whole fight becomes incredibly drawn-out and frustrating, and it usually feels like you win because the mesmer messed up and not because you somehow outsmarted or countered him.

^ Told you they want you to stand there and take their 1 spam to the face, if you do not they get “frustrated”.

Calling PU cheese with the current state of warriors and to a lesser extend guardians makes people look stupid, not just a little stupid but really stupid.

Stealth and invisibility is the only way to deal with focus fire and PU is the only reliable way for a mesmer to get not AoE spammed to bits even while invisible because of the really “cheesy” stuff.

And on a side note mesmer shatter burst is 3 buttons (less if you do not count the dodges)…

calavel.6249:

That’s simply not true. Target dropping becomes a progressively larger issue the more people depend on that target. If I target call a PU mesmer who is using lots of stealth, I can’t expect to hold that target for very long before he stealths. This is the same as a thief, no problem.

The real problem starts when the mesmer comes out of stealth, because there are 4 identical target and you have to find the right one. I’m not saying it’s hard but it can take a few seconds if you are pressured or you are in the middle of something else.
You don’t always notice them come out of stealth because you don’t know where it will happen and the clones don’t make it easier. Not because they’re doing damage but because you can’t tell without targeting if this is the mesmer or not (looking at food, karma buffs etc.) You can watch for movement patterns etc. but again, this all takes time and nobody has that time to waste in the middle of a fight.

This is frustrating because there is no obvious counter to this. It all depends on whether the mesmer is stupid/pressured enough to obviously reveal himself, like dodge rolling, jumping, strafing or other things clones can’t do.

I’m not saying 2-3 people who are dedicated can’t take down a PU mesmer, obviously not. But the whole fight becomes incredibly drawn-out and frustrating, and it usually feels like you win because the mesmer messed up and not because you somehow outsmarted or countered him.

From your description the problem lies on stealth and not on PU.

The idea behind clones is for you to waste 1 or more seconds of your time searching for the real mesmer.

That’s the main reason why clones are similar to the mesmer.

Well stealth is a problem in this game. This game should punish those who spam stealths less than 50% of the time of eachother. Just add an extra second revealed or decrease the duration of stealth when a person uses a 2nd stealth within 10 seconds of the previous stealth and you would see so much less stealth-spamming builds.

Jambas.6204:

From your description the problem lies on stealth and not on PU.

The idea behind clones is for you to waste 1 or more seconds of your time searching for the real mesmer.

That’s the main reason why clones are similar to the mesmer.

I know how Illusions work, what they can and cannot do. I have played mesmer since launch. The problem lies with stealth to some degree, but clones + stealth becomes a much larger issue because clones react to targeting in exactly the same way as a player (i.e. when cycling targets you will target them as well). The only reliable way to target the mesmer is with click-targeting and that brings other problems. Proper target-calling and following is incredibly important if you are trying to play just a little bit organized in a group, and PU really messes with this like nothing else in the game.

The boonspam from PU is just icing on the cake and another reason the fight gets drawn out (lots of protection, regen).

I dislike them mostly because I am dumb and keep getting suckered into fighting them.

They’re a super defensive build with lots of attrition, but they have little ability to chase, take objectives, or force a kill. You really should ignore them and keep moving. It’s not any different from a bunch of other super defensive duelists in the game – you beat them by not dueling them.

PU is just another “no risk/high reward” build in the same group as most condi builds, s/d thief, hambow, and spirit rangers.

People don’t like an over abundance of sustain, especially when it’s purely carried by the class and not the timed play or out play of the user in question (Yes you can time your evades but if you have 5+ evades then as long as your not completely inept you’ll always have a doge ready and almost never worry about wasting them, or worry about them being baited.)

these types of builds in the long term they make glass cannons almost redundant, and why bother running a bunker if you can do a bit more damage?

That all being said PU imo is not actually as bad? In sPvP they will never capture the point against a proper bunker, and in WvW you win by not fighting… sure you don’t get any badges but at least you don’t die?

It does enforce the whole “we’re a team based game” when you need numbers to properly lock something like this down, but it feels so forced or artificial. Either way I don’t like builds like this.

Daishi.6027:

PU is just another “no risk/high reward” build in the same group as most condi builds, s/d thief, hambow, and spirit rangers.

People don’t like an over abundance of sustain, especially when it’s purely carried by the class and not the timed play or out play of the user in question (Yes you can time your evades but if you have 5+ evades then as long as your not completely inept you’ll always have a doge ready and almost never worry about wasting them, or worry about them being baited.)

these types of builds in the long term they make glass cannons almost redundant, and why bother running a bunker if you can do a bit more damage?

That all being said PU imo is not actually as bad? In sPvP they will never capture the point against a proper bunker, and in WvW you win by not fighting… sure you don’t get any badges but at least you don’t die?

It does enforce the whole “we’re a team based game” when you need numbers to properly lock something like this down, but it feels so forced or artificial. Either way I don’t like builds like this.

it’s not even numbers that are needed, in most cases with PU mesmers, no one likes fighting them due to the sheer amount of time a fight can take. My most notorious duel I had with one ended with me as the victor…after fifteen minutes. Granted, we both abused stealth, but the constant protections, aegis and evades make them killer to fight. And they have exceptional field control making them incredibly deadly. Such a rewarding feeling when you beat one but most of the time that commitment is not worth it.

RedSpectrum.1975:

it’s not even numbers that are needed, in most cases with PU mesmers, no one likes fighting them due to the sheer amount of time a fight can take.

Well, on the basis of that same logic… let’s nerf the crap out of thief stealth then. On my non-PU Lockdown Mesmer I was just fighting a Thief and after many many minutes (I’ve lost count) I finally managed to kill him. He just constantly stealthed, disengaged, healed up and went back in…

Same with a Warrior the other day, just insane regen and whenever I got him down to 10%, he broke off, rushed off, regen-ed all the way up and started the fight again. Let’s nerf them as well!

Fun? No. But I’m sure you’ll disagree.

/sarcasm on

Hell, let’s nerf any class as I can’t be bothered to L2P on how to counter them.

/sarcasm off

Azreell.1568:

Simon.3794:

It is hated beacause

1st : it is a faceroll build, no skill required
2nd : too many stealth spamming
3rd : does not contribute much in a 5v5 (ofc it will help if you are really good or enemy team is really bad), most people just ignore it as a whole.
4th : no reason to fight with them in a 1v1
5th : conditions

1)Spirit Ranger, Warriors, Necros, – All have specs that could be considered skilless And are also all complained about on the forums.

2)To much stealth spamming is like complaining a class uses it’s skills to much? The spec/class is based on that much like the thief.

3)EXACTLY MY POINT – the spec is built for 1v1’s and solo roaming. It’s terrible in group settings so it gives up all viability in all other aspects of the game to be good at one particular area. That is the definition of balance brah.

4)Correct – You don’t have to fight them 1v1 and you can easily escape them. Once again that screams balanced to me.

5)Conditions – This is about the only point you have any valid concerns over.

1. if you are comparing PU with ranger, warrior, necro in terms of facerollness, you are clueless.

2. we do not simply hate “stealth spamming” we hate what comes with stealth, which a thief do not have. and mesmer spamming stealth more then a thief is just lol

3. it is a pain in the ahole, to fight against or 1v1, it is also a pain in the ahole to have it in our own team (that’s why it is hated, no one want it, no one want to against it either)

4. balanced and what, balance doesnt make this build any less faceroll, or hated, or “no one want it, no one want to against it either”

you don’t get it dont you.

Let me concludes4 you, why everybody hates it.

Because it is a faceroll no skill build, that you don’t want to have on your team, nor you want to fight against (which already included a lot of people, if you don’t realize), which makes noob think they are good, and actually more faceroll then any thing ever existed in gw2. even fighting a MM necro is more fun then fighting a PU, PU mesmer is just a worst most boring cancer build ever made. it is hated in all view angels except maybe the player, it’s just ridiculous.

Simon.3794:

Azreell.1568:

Simon.3794:

It is hated beacause

1st : it is a faceroll build, no skill required
2nd : too many stealth spamming
3rd : does not contribute much in a 5v5 (ofc it will help if you are really good or enemy team is really bad), most people just ignore it as a whole.
4th : no reason to fight with them in a 1v1
5th : conditions

1)Spirit Ranger, Warriors, Necros, – All have specs that could be considered skilless And are also all complained about on the forums.

2)To much stealth spamming is like complaining a class uses it’s skills to much? The spec/class is based on that much like the thief.

3)EXACTLY MY POINT – the spec is built for 1v1’s and solo roaming. It’s terrible in group settings so it gives up all viability in all other aspects of the game to be good at one particular area. That is the definition of balance brah.

4)Correct – You don’t have to fight them 1v1 and you can easily escape them. Once again that screams balanced to me.

5)Conditions – This is about the only point you have any valid concerns over.

1. if you are comparing PU with ranger, warrior, necro in terms of facerollness, you are clueless.

2. we do not simply hate “stealth spamming” we hate what comes with stealth, which a thief do not have. and mesmer spamming stealth more then a thief is just lol

3. it is a pain in the ahole, to fight against or 1v1, it is also a pain in the ahole to have it in our own team (that’s why it is hated, no one want it, no one want to against it either)

4. balanced and what, balance doesnt make this build any less faceroll, or hated, or “no one want it, no one want to against it either”

you don’t get it dont you.

Let me concludes4 you, why everybody hates it.

Because it is a faceroll no skill build, that you don’t want to have on your team, nor you want to fight against (which already included a lot of people, if you don’t realize), which makes noob think they are good, and actually more faceroll then any thing ever existed in gw2. even fighting a MM necro is more fun then fighting a PU, PU mesmer is just a worst most boring cancer build ever made. it is hated in all view angels except maybe the player, it’s just ridiculous.

It’s like people run into 1 v 1 with mesmer and think

" HurpDerp I can kill it like the rest."

And then get to half health and go

" Ohh no, It has me perma immoblised and I cant run because it has leaps like thief that will catch me"

and then die and say
" mesmer’s are cancer, they are too OP because it kills me 1 v 1"

Do I have the full summary of this thread?

If you fight a mesmer 1 v 1, the strategy for fighting them hasn’t changed since
LAUNCH

AoE clones and phantasm’s OR

move away.

Most mesmer’s I have been watching today don’t have condition clear’s on there bar’s ( which to me is silly as kitten)

It’s because it is the most stupidest, frustrating, pointless and losing fight you will ever experience.

i wanna answer this from more basics..
i dont play hardcore anymore (pasif) but what i learned gw2 has just 1 offical competitive area it is Structured PvP (tournaments [with no PuGs]).. so game mechanic designed for 5v5 and for structured maps..

there are pleanty competitive hardcore guilds disbanded, left game cuz of 5v5 was not satisfy for them, as there is no end game..

yes still there are guilds, who like to play gw2 with their vision (sync organized group play [no pugs Zerging]) so there is a 1 place for them is WvW, however wvw is an unrestricted area for all (from trollers to challengers to slackers to farmers to all)
Guilds in wvw make 2 competitive, challenging things,
1) smash the blobs with being outnumbered, to accomplish the hardest
2) try to destroy other guilds who run the same as you organized large scale..

so aka #2, guilds like to do it in Fair atmosphere.. so they do Deathmatch GvG with rules.. and with unoffical ranks..

while knowladge and experiances improving with competitive large scale plays.. the balance requires increased for it.. and PU is something like this trait has been made.. the things become if u split above mustache if beyond beard.. or in other words when try to make eyebrow, u put out the eye.. because game has just 1 offical competitive mode (structured pvp)

if they will do balances with gw2 philosophy, it would be better on the other hand satisfying other large % of gw2 players..

most of mesmer cry for being veil bot for zergs (which is best efficient for zergs compare to other classes efficients in overall spec)

with PU they buffed WvW (solo or small scaled roamers) yes it is been made something for WvW but WvW has
Duels (organized or random encounter)
Solo Roamers
Small Scaled Roamers
and Large Scaled Roamers
and GvG (i mean as in Obsidan Sanctrum)
—————————————-
ok lets come to Question, Why-do-you-dislike-PU-mesmers?
because,
1) which that trait makes mesmer powered in solo situations, i feel that, it barrier to let anet to make adaptation mesmers to large scaled groups (cuz Pu is not required for organized large scale groups) (cuz mesmers used be looked from one window)
2) it give a wrong outlook to mesmers..
3) risk/reward.. if it can happens why not to requires of zerg mesmers?

example check this fight however it was my first roam experiance,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-OKwDp-TYM
1vs 1upskilled mesmer +1 upskilled thief +1(80thief) +1(80necro) + respawning available + not getting out of combat..
and it was before patch (now i can cleanse with heal 2×2 condi + can have %20 recharge for mantras + think and if i get +600 armor trait + rather than %5 though go cleanse its %10) builds is PU tank condi.. maybe they can be not good but still.. or i never lose 1v1
here can show it as well some power of PU (full first roam experiance) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvGR9NWFAXA&list=UUK3AedWWDk4PhfHS3OQNu6Q&feature=c4-overview (sounds deleted better play your own)

Marsares.2053:

RedSpectrum.1975:

it’s not even numbers that are needed, in most cases with PU mesmers, no one likes fighting them due to the sheer amount of time a fight can take.

Well, on the basis of that same logic… let’s nerf the crap out of thief stealth then. On my non-PU Lockdown Mesmer I was just fighting a Thief and after many many minutes (I’ve lost count) I finally managed to kill him. He just constantly stealthed, disengaged, healed up and went back in…

Same with a Warrior the other day, just insane regen and whenever I got him down to 10%, he broke off, rushed off, regen-ed all the way up and started the fight again. Let’s nerf them as well!

Fun? No. But I’m sure you’ll disagree.

/sarcasm on

Hell, let’s nerf any class as I can’t be bothered to L2P on how to counter them.

/sarcasm off

…I’m utterly confused. I didn’t say that I thought they needed to be nerfed, I was just giving my input on why no one likes fighting them. And youre wrong, I do agree that warriors are ridiculous, at least those pesky thieves disappear before running

“I don’t like PU mesmers because I can’t button mash to beat them.”

Bazzoong.7145:

^ Told you they want you to stand there and take their 1 spam to the face, if you do not they get “frustrated”.

Calling PU cheese with the current state of warriors and to a lesser extend guardians makes people look stupid, not just a little stupid but really stupid.

Stealth and invisibility is the only way to deal with focus fire and PU is the only reliable way for a mesmer to get not AoE spammed to bits even while invisible because of the really “cheesy” stuff.

People made the same complaints in GW1. Warriors frequently complained that caster classes actually had skills that helped them survive warriors’ high damage attacks. The majority of complaints here come from glass cannon players who expect to be able to kill everyone in a few seconds or engineers (the true bane of WvW) who think they are invincible. I don’t play PU, but I still get the same whinging about my mesmer from these same types of players. It doesn’t matter what defensive skills a caster class has, these people won’t accept it. Every singe mesmer defensive skill has been complained about in these forums. In their minds, other classes, especially casters, just aren’t supposed to beat theirs.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/professions/balance/life-blast-x-6-17k-in-spvp/first

I also get the feeling that people struggle with the idea that smallscale balance is always going to be rock-paper-scissors.

A burst-class should lose to something like PU, on average. PU both avoids it’s primary damage by stealthing, and hurts their limited health pool via conditions.

In turn, PU loses when forced to play offensively – or worse, do material warfare.

(talking the typical Blackwater build here)

Solori.6025:

Simon.3794:

Azreell.1568:

Simon.3794:

It is hated beacause

1st : it is a faceroll build, no skill required
2nd : too many stealth spamming
3rd : does not contribute much in a 5v5 (ofc it will help if you are really good or enemy team is really bad), most people just ignore it as a whole.
4th : no reason to fight with them in a 1v1
5th : conditions

1)Spirit Ranger, Warriors, Necros, – All have specs that could be considered skilless And are also all complained about on the forums.

2)To much stealth spamming is like complaining a class uses it’s skills to much? The spec/class is based on that much like the thief.

3)EXACTLY MY POINT – the spec is built for 1v1’s and solo roaming. It’s terrible in group settings so it gives up all viability in all other aspects of the game to be good at one particular area. That is the definition of balance brah.

4)Correct – You don’t have to fight them 1v1 and you can easily escape them. Once again that screams balanced to me.

5)Conditions – This is about the only point you have any valid concerns over.

1. if you are comparing PU with ranger, warrior, necro in terms of facerollness, you are clueless.

2. we do not simply hate “stealth spamming” we hate what comes with stealth, which a thief do not have. and mesmer spamming stealth more then a thief is just lol

3. it is a pain in the ahole, to fight against or 1v1, it is also a pain in the ahole to have it in our own team (that’s why it is hated, no one want it, no one want to against it either)

4. balanced and what, balance doesnt make this build any less faceroll, or hated, or “no one want it, no one want to against it either”

you don’t get it dont you.

Let me concludes4 you, why everybody hates it.

Because it is a faceroll no skill build, that you don’t want to have on your team, nor you want to fight against (which already included a lot of people, if you don’t realize), which makes noob think they are good, and actually more faceroll then any thing ever existed in gw2. even fighting a MM necro is more fun then fighting a PU, PU mesmer is just a worst most boring cancer build ever made. it is hated in all view angels except maybe the player, it’s just ridiculous.

It’s like people run into 1 v 1 with mesmer and think

" HurpDerp I can kill it like the rest."

And then get to half health and go

" Ohh no, It has me perma immoblised and I cant run because it has leaps like thief that will catch me"

and then die and say
" mesmer’s are cancer, they are too OP because it kills me 1 v 1"

Do I have the full summary of this thread?

If you fight a mesmer 1 v 1, the strategy for fighting them hasn’t changed since
LAUNCH

AoE clones and phantasm’s OR

move away.

Most mesmer’s I have been watching today don’t have condition clear’s on there bar’s ( which to me is silly as kitten)

PU mesmer is officially banned in 1v1 and called as cancer, which is agreed by all top players even the veteran mesmers are against this cancer build, it has nothing to do with losing to it and no, we can not kill it doesnt mean we will die and lose to it, nor like we can’t beat it (we can), i think a random PvDoor hero like you must be greater then all top PvP players combined together to be able to say stuff like that. too skilled, much wow

Stealth is beside the point – aside from PU the mesmer lacks the easy access to defensive boons that most of the other popular classes have. The problem is that this defensive stuff comes with stacking stealth which is just bleagggrrrgaghaghhhghghghhghhgerrrfff.

I despise the trait but I’m an idiot not to use it.

Simon.3794:

PU mesmer is officially banned in 1v1 and called as cancer, which is agreed by all top players even the veteran mesmers are against this cancer build, it has nothing to do with losing to it and no, we can not kill it doesnt mean we will die and lose to it, nor like we can’t beat it (we can), i think a random PvDoor hero like you must be greater then all top PvP players combined together to be able to say stuff like that. too skilled, much wow

You must be a delightful person to be around.
At least no TxS/TSS leader has to worry about you inviting your friends to the boss kills I suppose? :P