Guild Wars 2

Why have conditions recently popped up for hot debate?

Is it because everyone who is QQing for a nerf is running some faceroll DPS i-have-no-condi-removal type build? Shifts in build metas is the only reason I can think of for why you’re all QQing.

I seriously hope they leave conditions as they are. Might teach DPS fanboys that you can’t have the best of everything after all. And actually, I do have a vested interest in keeping conditions as they are. Speaking as a Ranger, the last thing I want to see is our only viable WvW roaming/pvp build (condi bunker regen) nerfed because of your QQing.

If they nerf condi too they might as well just delete the Ranger profession.

Bryzy.2719:

Might teach DPS fanboys that you can’t have the best of everything after all.

this is why dps fanboys as you said required sacrificing a defensive stats and traits

whereas a condition user simply needs condition damage on gear wich alows condi users to have ultimate damage as well a ultimate survivability by simply using dire gear and increasing dps by simply mixing some rabid gear aka have the best of everything all at once

theres also the fact theres no means to reduce condi damage outside of eating lemongrass as they also ignore armor

at this point conditions are doing burst damage rather than sustained damage as they were intended

That makes no sense. You appear to use the term “burst” oddly loose. By definition, condition do not do burst damage

Bryzy, most of it is irrational misconception. If you read most of the complaints, those complaining do not actually even know how much damage most of the conditions are doing when compared to direct damage, or they complain about one specific skills condition duration, as if it represents conditions as a whole. If you ask me, most of the complaints are poorly thought out, and come from a clear lack of understanding of the facts of the situation.

Anyone with half a clue can see why conditions are completely broken.

It’s basic math, really.

Spiuk.8421:

Anyone with half a clue can see why conditions are completely broken.

It’s basic math, really.

please show me this basic math.

all i know is
conditions r overpowering my condition clears way to easy
and the lack of damage stops me from finishing a fight before being overwhelmed with conditions.

where is the middle ground for crit builds

There is a lot more to good game play than moving and dodging. That is important but if it were only that you might as well play a twitchy FPS.

You also need to focus on builds and strategy. Condition damage does take a bit of the twitch emphasis out which I find to be a very good thing. With a bit of strategy and build design, you should be able to handle the conditions well enough.

The game has a dodge mechanic but the dodge mechanic is not the game.

Dee Jay.2460:

Conditions suck because they are the exact antithesis of what skillful combat in GW2 should be (and was originally intended) to be about.

Conditions relegate both damage-dealing and damage mitigation almost entirely to class mechanics rather than the “active combat” GW2 was designed around. Dodging becomes secondary when conditions attacks are barely distinguishable and poorly telegraphed.

Avoiding damage comes down to what removal options you have, not how well you move, dodge or play.

It’s the exact opposite of fun and engaging combat.

You can tell that originally Guild Wars 2 was never meant to have such an excessive amount of condition spam. Stuff like Signet of Agility that removes 1 condition on a 30 second cooldown is proof of that.

But things have changed, especially with Runes of Perplexity and Tormet now added to the game and the entire concept of “active combat” has become diluted to the point where winning a fight comes down to how many different types of conditions you can apply to your opponent vs. how many he can cleanse.

It’s funny, a very very similar argument can be made about the physical damage power creep. Your logic may well be sound in some areas, but where it is completely flawed is in its applicability to almost all aspects of damage-based gameplay, albeit in different ways.

I can understand that some big condition attacks are poorly telegraphed. They’ve tried to fix that on the warriors LB and hopefully will continue to do so with other classes / weapons, but honestly, to say conditions promote passive play is not true.

To counter direct damage all you need to do is stack toughness and healing and you’re laughing. Thats exactly what bunker warriors, guardian and even rangers do. They dont need to do anything other tham spam random skills in any order and know that they will heal faster than a single person can hit them. That is the very definition of passive play.

Conditions, on the otherhand, bypass the passive defence that is armour and force people to actively cleanse. They make you choose when to use your cleanse CDs and heals because if you’re just spamming them you’ll find you are wasting them and they are being ineffective. All the “active” defence mechanics such as dodging, blocking, invulnerabilities and immunities all work vs conditions just the same as with direct damage, only instead of passive armour you have another active defence in the form of cleansing. So really.. defending from conditions is more active, not less.

Conditions actually promote a lot of active play and have conciderably lower damage than direct damage builds, people are just unwilling to try actually learn / build builds to deal with condition builds because they rather just rely on huge armour or stealth to be their only defence.

Dee Jay.2460:

Conditions suck because they are the exact antithesis of what skillful combat in GW2 should be (and was originally intended) to be about.

Conditions relegate both damage-dealing and damage mitigation almost entirely to class mechanics rather than the “active combat” GW2 was designed around. Dodging becomes secondary when conditions attacks are barely distinguishable and poorly telegraphed.

Avoiding damage comes down to what removal options you have, not how well you move, dodge or play.

It’s the exact opposite of fun and engaging combat.

You can tell that originally Guild Wars 2 was never meant to have such an excessive amount of condition spam. Stuff like Signet of Agility that removes 1 condition on a 30 second cooldown is proof of that.

But things have changed, especially with Runes of Perplexity and Tormet now added to the game and the entire concept of “active combat” has become diluted to the point where winning a fight comes down to how many different types of conditions you can apply to your opponent vs. how many he can cleanse.

How well you move/dodge has an impact on condi application, because you can dodge/block/evade/blind them just like direct damage.

The skill element comes down to how well prepared you are (whether it’s in a group comp or your own build) to deal with the situation you’re up against, and how well you time your abilities to minimize the effectiveness of your opponent/maximize your own effectiveness.

It’s interesting to go back and look at the fact that some abilities only remove 1 condition, and it’s easy for those to look lackluster. That doesn’t mean condis aren’t the antithesis of skillful. It seems to just mean that you’d rather not have to think about condis so you can focus on doing direct damage/mitigating direct damage.

theres more conditions than ever ….
need slightly better condition removes

caveman.5840:

theres more conditions than ever ….
need slightly better condition removes

You’re right, there are more conditions now than previously (even if only with the introduction of torment), but don’t forget that every profession doesn’t have access to every condition. There’s also currently sufficient scope for all professions to have condition removal. The skill comes in the form of judging when the most appropriate time to use it will be.

Conditions dont require 3 stats like Power builds do (power prec and ferocity) to do good, so you can chose quite tanky amulets and you have a bunky damage dealer with no downside

A ton of conditions proc from other attacks like bombs, grenades, crits, shattering clones etc which even if you wanted you cant dodge them all,

And last dont require any kind of special positional thinking, just stay in range and cast them, then you can even switch it up melting the rest of the team

So yeah It’s basically it

Ugruk.4069:

Conditions dont require 3 stats like Power builds do (power prec and ferocity) to do good, so you can chose quite tanky amulets and you have a bunky damage dealer with no downside

A ton of conditions proc from other attacks like bombs, grenades, crits, shattering clones etc which even if you wanted you cant dodge them all,

And last dont require any kind of special positional thinking, just stay in range and cast them, then you can even switch it up melting the rest of the team

So yeah It’s basically it

This post above is a prime example of the things in the quoted post below.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Most of it is irrational misconception. If you read most of the complaints, those complaining do not actually even know how much damage most of the conditions are doing when compared to direct damage, or they complain about one specific skills condition duration, as if it represents conditions as a whole. If you ask me, most of the complaints are poorly thought out, and come from a clear lack of understanding of the facts of the situation.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Ugruk.4069:

Conditions dont require 3 stats like Power builds do (power prec and ferocity) to do good, so you can chose quite tanky amulets and you have a bunky damage dealer with no downside

A ton of conditions proc from other attacks like bombs, grenades, crits, shattering clones etc which even if you wanted you cant dodge them all,

And last dont require any kind of special positional thinking, just stay in range and cast them, then you can even switch it up melting the rest of the team

So yeah It’s basically it

This post above is a prime example of the things in the quoted post below.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Most of it is irrational misconception. If you read most of the complaints, those complaining do not actually even know how much damage most of the conditions are doing when compared to direct damage, or they complain about one specific skills condition duration, as if it represents conditions as a whole. If you ask me, most of the complaints are poorly thought out, and come from a clear lack of understanding of the facts of the situation.

Way to go dismissing all the points because of “irrational misconception” if they did crap damage then people wouldnt complain about them…

Well obviously if DPS builds get nerfed, condition builds should also get nerfed so nothing changes at all.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

Well obviously if DPS builds get nerfed, condition builds should also get nerfed so nothing changes at all.

And that would defeat the purpose of the nerf to crit damage, which was done because they wanted to change things.

sooooo what do we do with our full ascend set of zerk gear now lol throw it in the trash…
because it is feeling pretty useless

cant kill anything or remove conditions to keep up …
we have no defensive stats’ on zerk gear

I’m going to take more than the usual amount of pleasure in seeing this thread ignored by the Devs.

caveman.5840:

sooooo what do we do with our full ascend set of zerk gear now lol throw it in the trash…
because it is feeling pretty useless

Try equipping it, then use direct damage abilities.

Tim.6450:

Spiuk.8421:

Anyone with half a clue can see why conditions are completely broken.

It’s basic math, really.

please show me this basic math.

sorry this is a lazy comparison but I thought I would try to show an example of a condition burst.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flurry
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impale_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposte
with 8 stack of might from FGJ and SoR, as well as Banner of strength (170 condi power) and sigil of corruption (250 condition)

2127 condition damage total
bleed
(0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80
((0.05 * 2127) + 42.5)*12=1786.2

torment
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80
(0.075 * Condition Damage) + 63.75 per stack per second at level 80 while moving
((0.075 * 2127) + 63.75)*5=1116.38

(1789.2+1116.38) * 4 (over 4 seconds)= 11622.3 still not the best burst but eh.

Really lazy bad build for reference: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|c.0.0.c.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.0.0.0.0.0.0|2x.0.2x.0.2w.0.2x.0.21n.0.2w.0|u267.u389.0.0.0|0.0|0.69.62.0.6m|e

caveman.5840:

sooooo what do we do with our full ascend set of zerk gear now lol throw it in the trash…
because it is feeling pretty useless

cant kill anything or remove conditions to keep up …
we have no defensive stats’ on zerk gear

Oh stop being so melodramatic. Zerkers are barely any different.

Cogbyrn.7283:

caveman.5840:

sooooo what do we do with our full ascend set of zerk gear now lol throw it in the trash…
because it is feeling pretty useless

Try equipping it, then use direct damage abilities.

lol ‘__’

Ugruk.4069:

dancingmonkey.4902:

Ugruk.4069:

Conditions dont require 3 stats like Power builds do (power prec and ferocity) to do good, so you can chose quite tanky amulets and you have a bunky damage dealer with no downside

A ton of conditions proc from other attacks like bombs, grenades, crits, shattering clones etc which even if you wanted you cant dodge them all,

And last dont require any kind of special positional thinking, just stay in range and cast them, then you can even switch it up melting the rest of the team

So yeah It’s basically it

This post above is a prime example of the things in the quoted post below.

dancingmonkey.4902:

Most of it is irrational misconception. If you read most of the complaints, those complaining do not actually even know how much damage most of the conditions are doing when compared to direct damage, or they complain about one specific skills condition duration, as if it represents conditions as a whole. If you ask me, most of the complaints are poorly thought out, and come from a clear lack of understanding of the facts of the situation.

Way to go dismissing all the points because of “irrational misconception” if they did crap damage then people wouldnt complain about them…

Why shouldn’t they be dismissed. They were not true. 100% condition duration literally double condition damage, yet folks such as yourself make the inaccurate claim, repeatedly, that only the stat of condition damage is needed in a condition build

As far as your comment about people complaining about them, well those poster, much like yourself use inaccurate information in your argument and judgement. As well, damage comparisons showing condition skills out damaging direct damage skills, even after ferocity was added, are non-existant.

If you disagree, please, by all means, show us some damage comparisons.

Here is an example from my perspective. A warrior in all soldiers gear against an bomb engineer in all dire gear. Not only does the warrior in this case severely out damage the bomb engineer, but the warrior also gets a long AoE stun, knockdown, and knock back.

@OP:

Actually, single target condi damge is fine. I think it is in a good place. AOE condi damage needs a nerf. AOE in general is skill-less and should take a hit (this applies to condi and direct damage)

the problem is not that conditions out damage direct damage

it is that there is more conditions than condition clear can handle anymore .
and zerk has no defensive stats .

cant kill your target quick enough . and cant keep up the condition clears

there is no middle ground

There should be more conditions than condition clear can handle.

Imagine if there were more evades/blocks than direct damage could handle.

It’s about timing the tools you have to get the most out of them.

Aiuhaslidufhalisdughlasidufhg.

ya man i agree with ya lol .
but conditions over power condition clears WAY TO EASY NOW.

If you play WvW at all, then you should be able to realize how ridiculous conditions are in their current state.

Infamous Darkness.3284:

Tim.6450:

Spiuk.8421:

Anyone with half a clue can see why conditions are completely broken.

It’s basic math, really.

please show me this basic math.

sorry this is a lazy comparison but I thought I would try to show an example of a condition burst.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Flurry
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Impale_
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Riposte
with 8 stack of might from FGJ and SoR, as well as Banner of strength (170 condi power) and sigil of corruption (250 condition)

2127 condition damage total
bleed
(0.05 * Condition Damage) + 42.5 per stack per second at level 80
((0.05 * 2127) + 42.5)*12=1786.2

torment
(0.0375 * Condition Damage) + 31.875 per stack per second at level 80
(0.075 * Condition Damage) + 63.75 per stack per second at level 80 while moving
((0.075 * 2127) + 63.75)*5=1116.38

(1789.2+1116.38) * 4 (over 4 seconds)= 11622.3 still not the best burst but eh.

Really lazy bad build for reference: http://gw2buildcraft.com/calculator/warrior/?8.0|c.0.0.c.0.0.0.0.0|0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0.0|5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.5q.719.0.0.0.0.0.0|2x.0.2x.0.2w.0.2x.0.21n.0.2w.0|u267.u389.0.0.0|0.0|0.69.62.0.6m|e

conditions are not broken.
warrior conditions builds are

caveman.5840:

ya man i agree with ya lol .
but conditions over power condition clears WAY TO EASY NOW.

Then play it. Play it hard. Play it until the meta-data they gather every second of every day says “there is a problem”.

@Infamous Darkness.3284:
I can do this amount of damage in a few seconds with my opening attack rotation on my Mesmer phantasm build.

Burst damage, as far as my understanding goes, is dealt within a few seconds. Your example deals it’s full damage after 12 seconds. 11,000 dmg over 12 seconds is not very impressive and it gives your foe a lot of time to cleanse that.

@topic:
Conditions in their entirety are find imho. There are some builds and some buffs the developers should take a look at. The biggest problem with the super strong condition damage builds is not the actual damage, but the amount of additional offensive and defensive CC abilities that are available. A really good player might interrupt your cleansing at the critical time and all the stacked up conditions will do their work even longer

@Kincaidia: How in the world did you get that last word past the filter? I’m reeling over here.

Also, your 18k HP pool goes from full to empty after the conditions have been applied in full, which is a several second process. During that time, you can interact with the applicator of the conditions to block/blind/evade/dodge/invuln their application to reduce the effect.

If you aren’t proactively attempting to mitigate the impact of conditions while they are being applied, you have no real right to complain about their impact once they are all applied. Unless, of course, part of your plan is to accrue their condi burst only to send it back to them in bulk once it’s been applied in full. In that case, though, you wouldn’t be complaining. You’d be laughing.

Which I still am about the end of your post. Just… how.

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Kincaidia: How in the world did you get that last word past the filter? I’m reeling over here.

Also, your 18k HP pool goes from full to empty after the conditions have been applied in full, which is a several second process. During that time, you can interact with the applicator of the conditions to block/blind/evade/dodge/invuln their application to reduce the effect.

If you aren’t proactively attempting to mitigate the impact of conditions while they are being applied, you have no real right to complain about their impact once they are all applied. Unless, of course, part of your plan is to accrue their condi burst only to send it back to them in bulk once it’s been applied in full. In that case, though, you wouldn’t be complaining. You’d be laughing.

Which I still am about the end of your post. Just… how.

Oh there’s huge casting animations to announce when someone is laying on conditions so you’ll know when to dodge, evade, block? Good to know.

Mek.2947:

Cogbyrn.7283:

@Kincaidia: How in the world did you get that last word past the filter? I’m reeling over here.

Also, your 18k HP pool goes from full to empty after the conditions have been applied in full, which is a several second process. During that time, you can interact with the applicator of the conditions to block/blind/evade/dodge/invuln their application to reduce the effect.

If you aren’t proactively attempting to mitigate the impact of conditions while they are being applied, you have no real right to complain about their impact once they are all applied. Unless, of course, part of your plan is to accrue their condi burst only to send it back to them in bulk once it’s been applied in full. In that case, though, you wouldn’t be complaining. You’d be laughing.

Which I still am about the end of your post. Just… how.

Oh there’s huge casting animations to announce when someone is laying on conditions so you’ll know when to dodge, evade, block? Good to know.

You’re trying to be a thorn in the conversation’s side, but let’s go down this road for a moment.

Tell me the fastest class rotation you know that stacks the most conditions it can in the shortest amount of time it can, and list the abilities required to complete it. We’ll look at how long the whole process takes based on cast times, and how long each abilities takes to cast. Feel free to call out when crit is necessary to stack on-crit conditions so we know that Dire gear is out of the question for reliably stacking them as fast as possible.

Thanks. I’ll be here waiting. I know with a Necro, you can get 11 stacks of Bleeding in 5 abilities that each have .75 second cast times with unique telegraphs (admittedly, one is less unique), which includes a weapon swap and utility.

Also, did you read the end of his post? How is that word not filtered? Still chuckling about it.

What is with all this complaining about not being able to dodge every condition out there? My power necro hits for 3k on an auto attack. That’s not even my burst damage. And compared to other glass cannon zerkers out there, that is low. So what is you’re plan to dodge all the direct damage that you can’t simply cleanse off?

Yeah I was talking about animations. Waving your hand or squatting to drop a bomb instantly is a little different than a guardian raising his sword or hammer above his head, or a warrior leaping towards you or swinging his hammer to play golf, or a big flaming arrow, or a bunch of clones running towards you.

If you dodge someone’s burst setup then you basically just negated their entire damage until their cooldowns are back up. Usually those combos are well telegraphed (see above) Whereas an engi can just kitten out bombs next to you or a necro can flick his wrist. If you dodge 1 ability that lands a condition GG – the necro or engi can just move on to their next 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9 button mashing to load you up with conditions. And if you have a hambow warrior covering the entire cap point with flames, what exactly are you dodging? Is it possible to flop around on the ground like a fish to keep dodging it? And there’s no skill involved with it. It’s just set it and forget it condition spam.

Lmao about Engi bombs. You mean those things that he places on the ground that have a delayed explosion and are clearly marked with red circles? Dear god how much more of a telegraph do you need? And if you aren’t built to survive, then you counter those flames covering the point by GETTING OFF THE POINT! Sounds like a bunch of glass cannons whining that they can’t sit on a point like a bunker.

I for one play a bunker Engi. I have crap condition removal as an Engi, yet I can hold a point against 2-3 enemies by myself, even if a necro is in the mix. I don’t do any damage, but that’s not my job. My job is to sit on that point and make sure the enemy wastes time and resources trying to take it from me (which isn’t going to happen.)

So let me see if I get this right? Zerker’s complain now that they have no defense….‘we can’t kill you faster than your conditions will kill us.’ Condition builds complain that we kill too slowyly….‘we die to zerkers before our conditions can kill them.’ So, either this is what the game is about, finding the right build for you, and relying on skill for the rest. Or, we just all have one META build, and then…….what? Look at each other. Find a build you like and play it. The devs are not out to personally destroy your build. Life is about change, learn to deal with it. The game is meant for enjoyment.

there should be a middle ground .
not just one or the other of both extremes

I believe that is what they are attempting…zerkers will have to worry about conditions now and conditions will have to worry about dps. And maybe somewhere in there, is the ideal middle ground, combined with your playing talent/ability, allows you to do well in most encounters. It would make the game interesting anyway. I think this change will be one in the right direction after all the initial ‘change’ wears off and people start digging in and enjoying the game.

The truth is Anet created a higher need for full zerk in pve with less tolerance for the person to slip in with a condi build of pvt. In wvw/pvp all they did was make condis stronger by nerfing direct damage.

So most builds will look like this for high game play in each mode

PvE = Full zerk no defense stats at all (higher skill cap, newer/less skilled players can’t pull it off.

PvP = Condi/Precision/Vit or tough builds will be very prevelant. Expect to see more condi warriors/necros/mesmers/thieves and less direct damage build (the entire guardian class).

WvW = Dire. Everywhere. All day. Buy the gear before the price goes through the roof.

Shaogin.2679:

Lmao about Engi bombs. You mean those things that he places on the ground that have a delayed explosion and are clearly marked with red circles? Dear god how much more of a telegraph do you need? And if you aren’t built to survive, then you counter those flames covering the point by GETTING OFF THE POINT! Sounds like a bunch of glass cannons whining that they can’t sit on a point like a bunker.

And what happens when you get off the point? Like I said before, if someone dodges one of your conditions, then fine, you just hit the 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9…or in the case of engineer…1,2,3,4,57,1,2,3,4,5,8,1,2,3,4,5,9,1,2,3,4,5…Please tell me the secret of your ways on how you recover after someone dodges one of your conditions?!?!

eleshazar.6902:

The truth is Anet created a higher need for full zerk in pve with less tolerance for the person to slip in with a condi build of pvt. In wvw/pvp all they did was make condis stronger by nerfing direct damage.

So most builds will look like this for high game play in each mode

PvE = Full zerk no defense stats at all (higher skill cap, newer/less skilled players can’t pull it off.

PvP = Condi/Precision/Vit or tough builds will be very prevelant. Expect to see more condi warriors/necros/mesmers/thieves and less direct damage build (the entire guardian class).

WvW = Dire. Everywhere. All day. Buy the gear before the price goes through the roof.

And then all those Dire users get mowed down by a properly built and played power train in WvW.

Mek.2947:

Shaogin.2679:

Lmao about Engi bombs. You mean those things that he places on the ground that have a delayed explosion and are clearly marked with red circles? Dear god how much more of a telegraph do you need? And if you aren’t built to survive, then you counter those flames covering the point by GETTING OFF THE POINT! Sounds like a bunch of glass cannons whining that they can’t sit on a point like a bunker.

And what happens when you get off the point? Like I said before, if someone dodges one of your conditions, then fine, you just hit the 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9…or in the case of engineer…1,2,3,4,57,1,2,3,4,5,8,1,2,3,4,5,9,1,2,3,4,5…Please tell me the secret of your ways on how you recover after someone dodges one of your conditions?!?!

Well I play Bunker Engi and Power Necro. Bunker Engi I am just built to survive, so I can stand on that point in the fires and /laugh. Power Necro I have to move. I have to pressure my opponent. I can cleanse conditions once I feel they may actually be a threat and I can have my opponent burst down before he can ramp up his conditions on me again.

I may have to take extra precaution in cases such as a skilled Terror Necro, but the fact is it can still be done. In all these arguments people defending conditions provide math and gameplay examples from logical approaches to explain what is going on. Yet all I see from those against conditions are highly exaggerated remarks and completely false “facts” being thrown around. Do you really expect anyone to take your ranting seriously?

And after all is said and done, and you still think condition classes are op as hell, then change your spec to condition based. And I don’t wanna hear the “I would but I don’t enjoy it” coverup when what you really meant to say was “I would but turns out I suck at that too.”

Overkillengine.6084:

eleshazar.6902:

The truth is Anet created a higher need for full zerk in pve with less tolerance for the person to slip in with a condi build of pvt. In wvw/pvp all they did was make condis stronger by nerfing direct damage.

So most builds will look like this for high game play in each mode

PvE = Full zerk no defense stats at all (higher skill cap, newer/less skilled players can’t pull it off.

PvP = Condi/Precision/Vit or tough builds will be very prevelant. Expect to see more condi warriors/necros/mesmers/thieves and less direct damage build (the entire guardian class).

WvW = Dire. Everywhere. All day. Buy the gear before the price goes through the roof.

And then all those Dire users get mowed down by a properly built and played power train in WvW.

I’m not talking about zerg fights. Those will remain pretty much the same. I’m talking about small scale roaming. trust me a group of dire users would melt a group of pvt users at a camp in a heartbeat….

Overkillengine.6084:

eleshazar.6902:

The truth is Anet created a higher need for full zerk in pve with less tolerance for the person to slip in with a condi build of pvt. In wvw/pvp all they did was make condis stronger by nerfing direct damage.

So most builds will look like this for high game play in each mode

PvE = Full zerk no defense stats at all (higher skill cap, newer/less skilled players can’t pull it off.

PvP = Condi/Precision/Vit or tough builds will be very prevelant. Expect to see more condi warriors/necros/mesmers/thieves and less direct damage build (the entire guardian class).

WvW = Dire. Everywhere. All day. Buy the gear before the price goes through the roof.

And then all those Dire users get mowed down by a properly built and played power train in WvW.

If conditions are fine in WvW, they why do so many commanders and their hammer trains run Melandru runes with the ridiculously expensive Lemongrass Poultry food?

If conditions are fine in WvW, they why are they highly regarded as cheese builds amongst the roaming community?

If conditions are fine in WvW, they why do you think these threads exist in the first place?

Shaogin.2679:

Mek.2947:

Shaogin.2679:

Lmao about Engi bombs. You mean those things that he places on the ground that have a delayed explosion and are clearly marked with red circles? Dear god how much more of a telegraph do you need? And if you aren’t built to survive, then you counter those flames covering the point by GETTING OFF THE POINT! Sounds like a bunch of glass cannons whining that they can’t sit on a point like a bunker.

And what happens when you get off the point? Like I said before, if someone dodges one of your conditions, then fine, you just hit the 1,2,3,4,5,7,8,9…or in the case of engineer…1,2,3,4,57,1,2,3,4,5,8,1,2,3,4,5,9,1,2,3,4,5…Please tell me the secret of your ways on how you recover after someone dodges one of your conditions?!?!

In all these arguments people defending conditions provide math and gameplay examples from logical approaches to explain what is going on. Yet all I see from those against conditions are highly exaggerated remarks and completely false “facts” being thrown around. Do you really expect anyone to take your ranting seriously?

And after all is said and done, and you still think condition classes are op as hell, then change your spec to condition based. And I don’t wanna hear the “I would but I don’t enjoy it” coverup when what you really meant to say was “I would but turns out I suck at that too.”

And, you’re assuming a lot about me and my playing experience. FYI, I did switch to a condi build on my mesmer because it is so much more face roll than when I was power/shatter. Miss my shatter burst due to a dodge,block,evade? = screwed. Miss a condi…Oh NOES timing is literally not an issue.

And what math are you referring to? The only math I’ve seen in this thread was proving the amount of damage Condis can do in 4 seconds which are not mitigated by toughness. Direct Damage dealers have to sacrifice their survivability for damage. As other posts have stated, direct damage requires three stats: power, precision, ferocity which is mitigated by the other player’s armor. Condis require ONE stat that is not mitigated by toughness -condi damage, which leaves room to stack other stats that increase survivability.