Guild Wars 2

1st ANet i love you guys and i love what ur doing in GW2.

and i know that there is some issue with berserkers in PvE.

but do you guys even play WvW ?

other from zergs WvW is an infested Bunker-Condi builds.

in WvW to be a good roamer is to go Dire or Rapid, in WvW condis are OP the opposite of what they are in PvE.

just check just the food prices for -40 condi duration.

and now you are nerfing Critical Damage for WvW ?!!!!!!

you force every roamer and his mother to roll condis even more.

what logic is this, how can you compare PvE to WvW.

this nerf should be kept in PvE as its only addressing PvE issues not WvW, it should not hit WvW

Logic is not comparing pve to wvw.
I and many roamers like me have and will continue to use critical damage in wvw. I’m not concerned at all.

WvW will never be balanced, nor was it intended to be. If you want balance, play sPvP where food, power creep, etc don’t exist.

I really don’t get this also.. its another buff for condi bunker builds.

The nerf is even bigger than it seems.
Not everyone runs exactly full berserker in WvW. Some Thieves or Mesmers may do it, but for most power based roamers mixing gear is a common thing.
When mixing gear, we were always slotting berserker (or any ohter combination with critical damage) on trinkets, because they were extremely cost efficient.
This won’t be the case anymore. Critical damage is not only going to get nerfed, but also evenly distribute across gear/traits/food like any other stat, which means that gear mixers are going to get nerfed twice. We’ll be hit by the overall nerf on critical damage, and by the trinket cost efficiency loss on top of that.

this nerf will kill every roaming power build, go bunker-condi or meet the repair NPC

well they just got rid of any dagger or sword mainhand thief… so people should be enjoying it heh

enjoy fighting p/d perl. runes thieves…

Nothing is going to happen to roaming thieves. If anything, all it will do is cause thieves to change from blind on stealth to remove a condition on stealth. There will still be D/P and D/D thieves running every place because they’ll still give unparallelled fight of flight ability.

Just like all the thieves that quit the game over the Pistol Whip nerf, or the quickness nerf, or the 1 second extra revealed timer, or the supposed permastealth nerf. None of that changed anything and thieves still run rampant in WvW as of today. This change will do nothing.

just expect an even more infested 0 skill condi-bunker roamers.

Condi Wars 2 got new buff

The only real scary condi build running around in WvW is Terrormancer and they are having Dhuumfire moved to life blast no more being pressured by auto attack procs of burning.

Other then that the rest of the condition roaming builds aren’t as threatening as Necro except maybe P/D perp thieves.

Even PU builds are getting a pretty big nerf with deceptive evasion changed.

Those condi engis are taking a nerf to net turret from supply drop it is slight nerf of 1 second reduction on the immob but still a nerf along with the poison nerf they are receiving.

Warrior pin down getting nerfed on cast time and will be a lot easier to see it coming with the windup added.

Condi bunkers didn’t go untouched they most certainly won’t be playing like they currently are.

I’ve said this in other threads but I’ll repeat myself, this change serves NO purpose.

In PvE it’s pointless because defensive stats remain superfluous due to dodging, all this does it slow down already painfully slow encounters. It does nothing to help create any kind of diversity.

In sPvP it does nothing as they mentioned they are keeping crit damage levels equivalent on that side of things.

In WvW it pushes people more into an already heavy condition meta.

It’s an unjustified across the board power build nerf that solves NO problems. If they wanted to slow down damage then they need to address condi spike as well or the whole thing is just BS.

Kadin.2356:

I’ve said this in other threads but I’ll repeat myself, this change serves NO purpose.

In PvE it’s pointless because defensive stats remain superfluous due to dodging, all this does it slow down already painfully slow encounters. It does nothing to help create any kind of diversity.

In sPvP it does nothing as they mentioned they are keeping crit damage levels equivalent on that side of things.

In WvW it pushes people more into an already heavy condition meta.

It’s an unjustified across the board power build nerf that solves NO problems. If they wanted to slow down damage then they need to address condi spike as well or the whole thing is just BS.

i agree

if you wanna get rid of zerkers in pve, just change NPC mechanics… for example for each point of toughness you deal extra dmg to NPCs

that wouldn’t affect wvw in any way and would promote tanky builds in pve

I play a burst engineer, and I have to totally agree with Juba 95% of engineers, mesmers, and necros are ALL condi bunker. And small man roaming, which is what I enjoy is just totally infested with almost every class running condi-bunker. I see this as another huge buff in their direction and it makes me sick, as I already feel condi-bunker engi is the best way to go, and this damage change will just make the disparity even larger.

My p/d thief appericates things change.

Those condi engis are taking a nerf to net turret from supply drop it is slight nerf of 1 second reduction on the immob but still a nerf along with the poison nerf they are receiving.

Have you even fought against a properly played perplexity engi? It’s all the kittening irrelevant if they can proc poison or immob at all lol.

Master of Timespace.2548:

My p/d thief appericates things change.

Those condi engis are taking a nerf to net turret from supply drop it is slight nerf of 1 second reduction on the immob but still a nerf along with the poison nerf they are receiving.

Have you even fought against a properly played perplexity engi? It’s all the kittening irrelevant if they can proc poison or immob at all lol.

Yes I have I didn’t say they aren’t a threat I am saying they are getting nerfed I also said slight. You make it sound like properly played perp engi is fighting dummies. Perp Engi’s are no where near as difficult to fight as a Necromancer in WvW. I actually find the fight to be pretty fun as long as I manage conditions removal and I main Elementalist. P/D perp is a much more difficult fight then a Perp Engi.

If you understand how damage works in this game. 10% dps reduction would only apply to a full zerker player fully buffed (25 stacks of might/perma fury/dps stacks) from the example given in stream. That doesn’t mean it applies to a person that happens to have 4 pieces of zerk/valk gear.

For WvW the dps decrease wouldn’t even be noticeable and for many probably would maybe be a 1-2% decrease in damage for WvW. We aren’t hitting AI in WvW we fight other players theoretical dps is very very hard to apply in a WvW setting because this isn’t WoW where we stand and hit each other. People dodge, have different armor values, different builds, etc.

This change is good for the game, because currently, the time to kill is way too fast (in wvw and pvp – it’s a pity this change won’t affect pvp). And they ARE addressing the condi-burst meta. It’s like everyone is choosing to ignore the changes to Dhuumfire, Pin Down, Condi-clones, etc.

DiogoSilva.7089:

This change is good for the game, because currently, the time to kill is way too fast (in wvw and pvp – it’s a pity this change won’t affect pvp). And they ARE addressing the condi-burst meta. It’s like everyone is choosing to ignore the changes to Dhuumfire, Pin Down, Condi-clones, etc.

Nothing against condi engi (please don’t mention the poison nade nerf), and warrior can still run sword-shield sword-sword, giving him a nice combination of tankyness and heavy condi pressure, so that build is not affected in anyway. Necros can still spam condis on you and CC you to uselessness. Condi thiefs have no changes.

No, the condi bunker meta got barely touched and received a huge buff by nerfing power builds damage output.

oZii.2864:

If you understand how damage works in this game. 10% dps reduction would only apply to a full zerker player fully buffed (25 stacks of might/perma fury/dps stacks) from the example given in stream. That doesn’t mean it applies to a person that happens to have 4 pieces of zerk/valk gear.

For WvW the dps decrease wouldn’t even be noticeable and for many probably would maybe be a 1-2% decrease in damage for WvW. We aren’t hitting AI in WvW we fight other players theoretical dps is very very hard to apply in a WvW setting because this isn’t WoW where we stand and hit each other. People dodge, have different armor values, different builds, etc.

The problem is not as much related to that 10% decrease (which is a noticeable decrease of about 30% critical damage over multiple sources) as to coverting critical damage into an even stat.
That makes impossible to get advantage from those extremely cost efficient trinkets. A player using zeker trinkets and soldier armor/weapons will suffer a heavier damage nerf than somebody on full zekers.
The change makes extremely hard to balance damage, which you need if you really want do down people, with some survivability that some specs can’t so easily give up.

As a guardian, I need a fairly good amount of damage for WvW solo roaming.
Even if I have a good amount of gap closers, I lack the ability to keep enemies at melee range without heavy investment in runes and sigils (and even then melee time is still quite small) so I need to make those seconds matter. Otherwise, any tanky build could just outheal my damage and become unkillable.
On the other hand, I still need survivability because the time I’m not in melee, I’m being kited and harassed.

With the changes, I’m almost forced to some full zeker burst gimmicky build. It’s that or just give up, because if I can’t kill people at all (they’ll just flee away if the fight becomes attrition based and it looks like I’m winning), what’s the point on even trying to solo roam?

My problem is probably more about the class itself, which is more suiited for other tasks (which I dislike I won’t ever play) in WvW. I can live with that, but it still sucks :P

Actually I hope that it will nerf berserker thieves. Elementalists being twohitted is hilarious. And its not a l2p issue … The whole damagebalancing in GuildWars 2 is actually a big joke.

vanensang.1389:

Actually I hope that it will nerf berserker thieves. Elementalists being twohitted is hilarious. And its not a l2p issue … The whole damagebalancing in GuildWars 2 is actually a big joke.

i completely agree with you.

Is not changing something a buff now?

So instead of Punishing/Nerfing those who were Responsible and Liable for Inducing the Highest Damage and for breaking the game whenever they please; at will, they Punish Everyone?

It is like a Parent Disciplining all of their children instead of 2 for breaking the rules.

It is like having our Government putting all citizen in Jail instead of 2 for breaking the law?

It is like a company firing every workers instead of the 2 workers who for violated company policy.

It is like having a police officer writing everybody a ticket instead of the 2 person who went over the speed limit?

I find this Balance team as a whole as a big circus; where every crazy imaginary things happen.

Seriously, if you go to a circus and have a conversation with them about the REAL world; they will look at you as if you had 10 heads.

Isn’t it obvious by now this game revolves around a circus mechanism mentality?

Isn’t it obvious they’ve design a clown class called thief;

who can vanish anytime they want? wow! so magical

who can reset their game anytime? wow! how did you do that?

who can run so fast and can teleport all the time? wow! can you wait for me?

who can kill you with 1-2-3 stabs? wow! so unfair?

who can absorb every conditions while they are invisible? wow! can you teach me how to do that?

How about a clown class called warrior?

Who can do Everything without breaking a sweat? Wow! you are so Spectacular, are you a Genie? can i be like you?

After i watched the stream yesterday, it was there The Truth awoken me and exposed The Reality “behind the curtain”… that Guild Wars 2 is circus world, where every Imaginative, Fantasy and Craziness take place.

In conclusion,

What world do you favor in honor of the forefathers of Guild Wars?

A World where Justice, Truth, Liberty, Freedom, Equality, Fairness, Reality, Uniqueness, Understanding, Hope, Love, Devotion, Balance, Empathy, Compassion, Appreciation and Caring dwell?

Or

A World where Clowns, Imaginations, Fantasies, Manipulations, Lies, In Justice, Control, Greed, Deceptions, Favoritism, Hate, Slavery, Tyranny, Oppression, Pain, Suffering and Failure dwells?

Guild Wars Future is at stake,

Choose wisely

oZii.2864:

Master of Timespace.2548:

My p/d thief appericates things change.

Those condi engis are taking a nerf to net turret from supply drop it is slight nerf of 1 second reduction on the immob but still a nerf along with the poison nerf they are receiving.

Have you even fought against a properly played perplexity engi? It’s all the kittening irrelevant if they can proc poison or immob at all lol.

Yes I have I didn’t say they aren’t a threat I am saying they are getting nerfed I also said slight. You make it sound like properly played perp engi is fighting dummies. Perp Engi’s are no where near as difficult to fight as a Necromancer in WvW. I actually find the fight to be pretty fun as long as I manage conditions removal and I main Elementalist. P/D perp is a much more difficult fight then a Perp Engi.

If you understand how damage works in this game. 10% dps reduction would only apply to a full zerker player fully buffed (25 stacks of might/perma fury/dps stacks) from the example given in stream. That doesn’t mean it applies to a person that happens to have 4 pieces of zerk/valk gear.

For WvW the dps decrease wouldn’t even be noticeable and for many probably would maybe be a 1-2% decrease in damage for WvW. We aren’t hitting AI in WvW we fight other players theoretical dps is very very hard to apply in a WvW setting because this isn’t WoW where we stand and hit each other. People dodge, have different armor values, different builds, etc.

Actually you said it yourself. You aren’t fighting AI in WvW. That’s why dps isn’t very relevant. For a zerker pvp build the bursts are much more important than the overall dps, and this change is doing exactly that: nerfing burst damage.

It took me some time to realize why they are doing it. Healing signet nerf 8%, Power builds nerf 10% in damage…
Yeah you really nerfed warrior sustain

^^^

warrior damage is on the nerf for the 5th time i think in a row, so the master of arms might be out of job next patch.

D/D ele will be totally rubbish

The nerf will hit hard celestial mostly but also mixed stats.

As Always prepare to have the usual whack a mole nerf and in 3 months some review like “we did a great job balancing zerkers, but now we are seeing it impacted also FEW other builds and we are looking into it….we can t give you a deadline but we ll do something when we ll gather more infos”.

This is the usual shortsighted patching ruining the game….rather than improving it….
(not that players already warned anet of the mistakes without even getting a single reply).

DiogoSilva.7089:

This change is good for the game, because currently, the time to kill is way too fast (in wvw and pvp – it’s a pity this change won’t affect pvp). And they ARE addressing the condi-burst meta. It’s like everyone is choosing to ignore the changes to Dhuumfire, Pin Down, Condi-clones, etc.

bullkitten, good duells are going for minutes, only those ppl who can´t play there class going down in seconds…

vanensang.1389:

Actually I hope that it will nerf berserker thieves. Elementalists being twohitted is hilarious. And its not a l2p issue … The whole damagebalancing in GuildWars 2 is actually a big joke.

show me which ele runs full bers in wvw and i can show you a newbie/someone who don´t understand the class

Best part of balancing patch:

Reduce healing signet passive of 8%
reduce zerk profession dps output of 10%

Makes me think….

forgot to add the poison changes (since poison affects healing signet passive)

LordByron.8369:

Best part of balancing patch:

Reduce healing signet passive of 8%
reduce zerk profession dps output of 10%

Makes me think….

Im disapointed… i expected them to reduce it by a good 25% at least (zerk)

kyubi.3620:

LordByron.8369:

Best part of balancing patch:

Reduce healing signet passive of 8%
reduce zerk profession dps output of 10%

Makes me think….

Im disapointed… i expected them to reduce it by a good 25% at least (zerk)

oh but they did for celestial …..did i kill too many warriors with my ele? ._.

LordByron.8369:

Best part of balancing patch:

Reduce healing signet passive of 8%
reduce zerk profession dps output of 10%

Makes me think….

Uhmm that counts for both.. So the warr does 10% less damage also..

So its still 8%.. Or did they decreased your healing also with this 10% damage nerf?

He wanted to point out that these are not separate changes.
Instead, the patch note will look like this:
“Healing signet passive healing reduced by 8%. To compensate, direct damage across the board was reduced by up to 10% (25% for celestial gear) and duration of most common poison applications were adjusted (reduced by 40%)”

Kravick.4906:

Nothing is going to happen to roaming thieves. If anything, all it will do is cause thieves to change from blind on stealth to remove a condition on stealth. There will still be D/P and D/D thieves running every place because they’ll still give unparallelled fight of flight ability.

Just like all the thieves that quit the game over the Pistol Whip nerf, or the quickness nerf, or the 1 second extra revealed timer, or the supposed permastealth nerf. None of that changed anything and thieves still run rampant in WvW as of today. This change will do nothing.

Except this will encourage the rebirth of the P/D thief (still plenty in WvW but not common) and perhaps one of the easiest iWin roamers out there as it will only be buffed further.

Thief will be even more common since the power-based WvW roamers will be less.

I dont think ypu understand what i mean. If they reduced damage with 10% for all classes and 8% on HS. That 8% is still 8% because they didnt decreased all other healing skills..

Even if they reduced it with 50% damage, the 8% is still a nerf for HS.

Ok you still do 2% less damage on warr with power build compared to before (lets keep it simple) but the warr does 10% less damage also, because other healing skills didnt get reduced.

So your point about a fail balance issnt true.

I do agree its weird they come together buth it doesnt really matter.

What does is the crit damage nerf

Ichishi.9613:

He wanted to point out that these are not separate changes.
Instead, the patch note will look like this:
“Healing signet passive healing reduced by 8%. To compensate, direct damage across the board was reduced by up to 10% (25% for celestial gear) and duration of most common poison applications were adjusted (reduced by 40%)”

This is slightly offset by the double Sigils on 2H weapons though. So Warrior’s are slightly worse off than the general populace with all balance notes considered. In other words, board whiners mission accomplished! Keep it going! ~

Another example:

Before
If thief power class does 100% damage
And warr power class heals for 100% on Hs
So does healing for thiefs power class on 100%

Now thief does 90% damage
Warr heals for 92% now with HS.

So yes now it issnt a nerf.
But you forget that the warr also does 90% damage now and your thief still heals for 100% on there skill..

So its still a nerf for warr or you can see it as a buff for all other classes (about the healing, the damage nerfs is for all classes)

Artaz.3819:

Ichishi.9613:

He wanted to point out that these are not separate changes.
Instead, the patch note will look like this:
“Healing signet passive healing reduced by 8%. To compensate, direct damage across the board was reduced by up to 10% (25% for celestial gear) and duration of most common poison applications were adjusted (reduced by 40%)”

This is slightly offset by the double Sigils on 2H weapons though. So Warrior’s are slightly worse off than the general populace with all balance notes considered. In other words, board whiners mission accomplished! Keep it going! ~

While they forgot celestial and mixed gear
the damage reduction
and mostly anything else

They perfectly remembered to lower 2H damage to mantain the exact 2H offensive damage (i.e. 5% damage that you can get back with sigil of force).

That is what Always makes me think…few stuff is Always deeply pondered anything not concernig those profession is accidentally forgotten and left as it is for months.

vanensang.1389:

Actually I hope that it will nerf berserker thieves. Elementalists being twohitted is hilarious. And its not a l2p issue … The whole damagebalancing in GuildWars 2 is actually a big joke.

you can counter glass thieves easily, but its not the case with condi-bunkers,

Sounds good to me. Far to many direct-damage and instagib one-trick-pony builds running around.

Terrahero.9358:

Sounds good to me. Far to many direct-damage and instagib one-trick-pony builds running around.

the problem is not even full zerker but for people who invested a lot of time and gold into getting sold/x armor + zerker trinkets and now it turns into garbage

Criturmum.3679:

DiogoSilva.7089:

This change is good for the game, because currently, the time to kill is way too fast (in wvw and pvp – it’s a pity this change won’t affect pvp). And they ARE addressing the condi-burst meta. It’s like everyone is choosing to ignore the changes to Dhuumfire, Pin Down, Condi-clones, etc.

bullkitten, good duells are going for minutes, only those ppl who can´t play there class going down in seconds…

watch an ele vs thief… done and dusted in 10 seconds max, unless the thief is an absolute spastic.

Terrahero.9358:

Sounds good to me. Far to many direct-damage and instagib one-trick-pony builds running around.

well of course it sounds good for every condi-bunker roamer, your already high survivability got an new insurance.

Condi builds aren’t that hard to dispose of if you are running the right power/crit build. Even with a 10% nerf to crit damage we will still be able to kill them without to much difficulty. A warrior with -condition food, melandru/hoelbrak runes, cleasning ire, dogged march, zerker stance, SoS, has nothing to fear from condi specs. Sure you have to put 20 points in defense to get all that but that still leaves you with 50 points to spec power/crit with your weapon of choice.

Julie Yann.5379:

Condi builds aren’t that hard to dispose of if you are running the right power/crit build. Even with a 10% nerf to crit damage we will still be able to kill them without to much difficulty. A warrior with -condition food, melandru/hoelbrak runes, cleasning ire, dogged march, zerker stance, SoS, has nothing to fear from condi specs. Sure you have to put 20 points in defense to get all that but that still leaves you with 50 points to spec power/crit with your weapon of choice.

warrior is anet’s baby and can be hardly used as an example as it barely has any weaknesses

Julie Yann.5379:

Condi builds aren’t that hard to dispose of if you are running the right power/crit build. Even with a 10% nerf to crit damage we will still be able to kill them without to much difficulty. A warrior with -condition food, melandru/hoelbrak runes, cleasning ire, dogged march, zerker stance, SoS, has nothing to fear from condi specs. Sure you have to put 20 points in defense to get all that but that still leaves you with 50 points to spec power/crit with your weapon of choice.

so pro!, you know you can act cool but also acknowledge the issue here.

for real, can you hear yourself saying that ?

well you said it, you already have to spec heavy condi-cleanse just to stand a chance.

you already forced to spend your traits in one way just to stand a chance.

so tell me now, that your damage reduced by 10% because of some PvE dungeon boss!!

Juba.8406:

Terrahero.9358:

Sounds good to me. Far to many direct-damage and instagib one-trick-pony builds running around.

well of course it sounds good for every condi-bunker roamer, your already high survivability got an new insurance.

I dont play a bunker build, and hopefully now it means not getting instagibbed anymore by someone who managed to press a grand total of 3 buttons.

^^^

i dont want to sound rude, but honestly if you kept instagibbed by zerkers (which have less to 0 toughness) all the time then you are doing something wrong, although even now before even the nerf hits, meeting zerkers in WvW becomes rarer and rarer sight every new day.

Juba.8406:

so pro!, you know you can act cool but also acknowledge the issue here.

for real, can you hear yourself saying that ?

well you said it, you already have to spec heavy condi-cleanse just to stand a chance.

you already forced to spend your traits in one way just to stand a chance.

so tell me now, that your damage reduced by 10% because of some PvE dungeon boss!!

Where have you been in the last 6+ months? Conditions have always been insanely abundant in WvW. Speccing for condition cleanse in WvW is has always been a must if you don’t want to get facerolled. I totally crush most condition builds with my power/crit (with condition cleanse) build and also hold up well against other power builds. Do you think you can roll a full PvE zerk spec in WvW without any condition cleanses and not get facerolled by conditions? I’ll ask again, where have you been over the past 6+ months?

Cynz.9437:

warrior is anet’s baby and can be hardly used as an example as it barely has any weaknesses

I’ve been navigating to forum so much I hadn’t noticed that I wasn’t posting in the Warrior forum anymore. It’s the meta, Anet gave OP condition builds to almost everyone and OP Anti-condition builds to Warriors and Thieves.