Guild Wars 2

coglin.1867:

Drarnor Kunoram.5180:

Xaylin.1860:

And even if you had the Stability, you’d still be spiked. You’re not being spiked because of your lacking access to Stability. Necromancers get spiked because of their capabilities to cover whole cap points with debuffs and conditions.

Necros would get spiked regardless of stability, but not for the reason you state. They get spiked because they utterly lack the active defenses to do anything about it, making it an easy kill and a 4v5 until the necro respawns and hauls his slow butt back. The fact that necros are dangerous if ignored is very minor in comparison (as most people are rather dangerous if ignored).

No, no that is never said. I have never once heard in mumble or TS, “lets get the necro guys. Because he cannot defend himself”…..Mostly because everyone know that is not true. I pi up on JQ and command a lot. I have spent the majority of my time pinned up on my D/D power well necro or my mine/elixir infused bomb engineer. You sem to have no scope for why the rest of the game would react as they do. I know we say slap the necros, because generally all of ours run with boon stripping corrupting wells, and unblock able marks. Just like our engineers lay out just as many water fields as our eles. 5 boons stripped with mines.

Trust me, is you think enemies come at you because they think your any easy kill, then it is your misconceptions based an your own insecurities in your play or something, because it sure isn’t for the reason your claiming. They corrupt everything, and spread conditions to easy.

They corrupt everything and spread conditions easily, yes. They also:

1. Have no escape if they’re utilitied for corruption/spread.
2. Are arguably the easiest class to stomp (tied with Warrior/Engineer, I think).
3. Have no invulnerability/block/evade delay tactics to stop a burst in its tracks.

If they could corrupt everything and spread conditions just as easily as they do now, but also could delay a burst for 8 seconds through blocks/invulns or otherwise just evade a burst through high mobility, would you still try to target a Necro first, even if it means you chase them around for a while?

If not, then there’s more to it than you explain, and that “more to it” probably falls under the realm of what Drarnor is talking about.

Xaylin.1860:

That is somewhat debatable since you can argue both ways. They are targeted because they are a threat. If they weren’t it would not happen. I agree that they go up in priority because they are easy to chase down but that most cetainly isn’t the sole reason to target them in the first place.

However, that is not what I was referring to. My point was that Stability won’t help them when being targeted. More ways to apply Chill, Weakness or Dazes would be a lot more sufficient.

We are targeted because we are a threat, no argument there. If we are left alone w can completly change a fight,
But we are completly shut down because lack of counter cc and little.to none mobility. On my warrior in a team fight I usualy call necro, 2 reasons, I play necro a lot and.know how they play, and I.can.completly shut.one down making them useless. Until my team clear every one else.
I can do this with most all classes, you can kite them or control them verry easly.

coglin.1867:

So?

Thief, ele, mesmer, and ranger are on that list, yet they do not have access to any more stability then necromancer, yet none of there damage avoidance skills function when they are CCed. Clearly they all need kitten stability skill too.

thief ele and mesmer also have more escapes than the rest of the other five classes combined so they don’t exactly need it do they?

alamore.1974:

Xaylin.1860:

That is somewhat debatable since you can argue both ways. They are targeted because they are a threat. If they weren’t it would not happen. I agree that they go up in priority because they are easy to chase down but that most cetainly isn’t the sole reason to target them in the first place.

However, that is not what I was referring to. My point was that Stability won’t help them when being targeted. More ways to apply Chill, Weakness or Dazes would be a lot more sufficient.

We are targeted because we are a threat, no argument there. If we are left alone w can completly change a fight,
But we are completly shut down because lack of counter cc and little.to none mobility. On my warrior in a team fight I usualy call necro, 2 reasons, I play necro a lot and.know how they play, and I.can.completly shut.one down making them useless. Until my team clear every one else.
I can do this with most all classes, you can kite them or control them verry easly.

^ this… it doesn’t take much to make necro pointless in pvp

My guild will usually target Necromancers first because they usually can’t slip away; then Guardians (also usually slow) or someone that is observably squishy and/or lacking stability. (’zerker geared players dumb enough to get within reach of the tank train are a favorite, etc)

Picking on the defensively weakest available targets first is the fastest way to reduce the potential damage output of the enemy team.

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

blowing all your cooldowns before you run away is your fault on the thief .. ranger has plenty of cc and constantly does damage while cc’d with your pet to keep the enemy at bay till it wears off not to mention by the time someone reaches you they are usually low hp from all the damage you have done from range

I did specify pvp?………….. and wow@@ you can negate up to 4 cc blasts from some professions on low cooldowns with 2 dodges? amazing…

proper positioning? so I am forced to be pointless and stand beyond 600 range and just go pew pew pew with my staff ?

It is, and running a signet burst build REQUIRES this. This is why I argue it’s not necessary when I frequently find myself surviving encounters with no utilities and just using dodge rolls to avoid getting CC’ed altogether.

With the ranger, do you know how longbow/longbow works? Doesn’t sound like it. I’ll explain it below.

And pets “keeping an enemy at bay?” Lol, okay. Keep dreaming. I’d get rid of the pet for damage retention at close range at any time because the thing is worthless in PvP environments.

Yes, it was specified “PvP.” PvP as a definition refers to Player vs Player. What that means in this context never got clarified, meaning it includes WvW and sPvP, and from a WvW perspective, I’m not agreeing with necro gaining access to long-duration stability.

Proper positioning applies to all builds. You can be d/d and still position yourself right to avoid damage. You dodge in a direction. Use that for re-positions to avoid the next hit. Kite in melee for cooldown resets if you pose an advantage on your refresh. Consequently, if you don’t, then you also have death shroud to let you get the advantage.

If being “useless” to you is using range or not just going all-in all the time, I’d suggest you either try a different class or even a different game. Knowing when to attack and position is arguably more important than fast reflexes and a good build, and if you’re downright refusing to learn how, no amount of ridiculous buffs is going to fix that.

Andele.1306:

DeceiverX.8361:

CC hits everyone like a train when it hits. That’s why necros have that nice health pool + death shroud. My characters get CC’ed, and I die. I main:

Actually no they dont, just on ranger you got: GS evade, GS Block, Shorbow evade, Sword evade, the second sword evade, Axe projectile reflection, Dagger evade, tSoStone, tSoWild, Lightning Reflexes, Rampage as One, Primal Reflexes, Vigorous Renewal, Enlargement and Vigorous Training.
ANY of it can be used to efficiently give you at least 1 more dodge/more immunity than necro can ever hope to.

I quote myself:
“When it hits.”
Yea, when the CC actually HITS the target and the target is CC’ed.

Second, I’m not arguing classes but builds. I said I already run 6/6/2/0/0 full glass longbow/longbow on the ranger. I assume you’re not familiar with the build to be suggesting I have access to those utilities, either. I was so nice to go and fetch it for reference:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATTjMqUyaLLGsQ1ag9gadAUAndrhg9FMChQBTKA-TFCBwAnVCid/R5HO1fAclASphIvuAGPAgAHSgAAIA38mZzbGwNv5Nv5NvZpAiYZE-w

So I have a single stunbreak (as does necro) and no cooldown refresh on weapon swap, no active dodges outside of the base two (I get vigor but that doesn’t do much when it pertains to spam CC’s), and I still manage just fine. There’s also no CC except the knockback, which again, can be protected against via stability from other classes.

And just like my thief, the strategy is “don’t get hit by CC to begin with” And it works, too. Necros don’t even need to be worried about getting hit by damage nukes, making it even easier to dodge the incoming blows properly.

DeceiverX.8361:

I was so nice to go and fetch it for reference:

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fNAQJATTjMqUyaLLGsQ1ag9gadAUAndrhg9FMChQBTKA-TFCBwAnVCid/R5HO1fAclASphIvuAGPAgAHSgAAIA38mZzbGwNv5Nv5NvZpAiYZE-w

So I have a single stunbreak (as does necro) and no cooldown refresh on weapon swap, no active dodges outside of the base two (I get vigor but that doesn’t do much when it pertains to spam CC’s), and I still manage just fine. There’s also no CC except the knockback, which again, can be protected against via stability from other classes.

And just like my thief, the strategy is “don’t get hit by CC to begin with” And it works, too. Necros don’t even need to be worried about getting hit by damage nukes, making it even easier to dodge the incoming blows properly.

I just wanted to point out that you actually have 2 stun breakers, and Lightning Reflexes also doubles as an active dodge. Maybe you never use Quickening Zephyr for its stun break, but you have it if you wanted to do a surprise break → PBS → Rapid Fire combo.

I respect and understand the idea that dodging stuns with the base dodge mechanic often seems underestimated, but I think it’s also a bit unreasonable to assume you can just dodge all of the stuns/immobs that matter.

Lightsbane.9012:

coglin.1867:

So?

Thief, ele, mesmer, and ranger are on that list, yet they do not have access to any more stability then necromancer, yet none of there damage avoidance skills function when they are CCed. Clearly they all need kitten stability skill too.

thief ele and mesmer also have more escapes than the rest of the other five classes combined so they don’t exactly need it do they?

So, how will a “stability” help you escape? Last time I played those professions, I couldn’t use any escape ability when I was CCed.

Actually, yes you can use abilities while CCed. Thief, ele, and mesmer all have escape abilities that allow them to either break stun and move, or just instant teleport but stun remains.

Basically everything that is instant cast, which is a lot.

Depends on the skill. The thief has access to a lot of utility while it’s CC’ed. The ele not as much, though.

Granted the thief rightfully should, seeing as it’s part of the class definition and arguably it’s only realistic counter to well… dying. The damage alone from the CC attacks is usually enough to drop squishier-built thieves. Losing 70% of your max health in one hammer swing is a pretty big deal.

Stability =/= a stun break, teleport, or relocation skill, though.

I don’t know if you saw my previous suggestion as to how to make this signet more useful along the lines of CC issues, but I suggested stun break + 1 second stability. 5 Seconds is absolutely too crazy when this signet passive isn’t even necessary while in combat anyways due to chill/fear/immob/cripple access.

Regarding the ranger comment, while QZ is a stun break, likely if my opponent got that close to begin with, PBS is on cooldown, and going stunbreak likely into another stun (looking at you, warriors) is just a waste of a skill ultimately forcing oneself into cut healing. Even then, QZ’s on cooldown usually as soon as the skirmish begins, thus I simply do my best to avoid CC altogether via dodges.

May i just note: BEING A SOFT MINDED BOOKAH with a bad build =/= having balance of giving all professions a equal OPTIONAL footing in terms of reducing and avoiding damage (which is why i suggest reworking Foot in the Grave, thus having a cost related to gaining stability/cc immunity).

Also your quite kittenty build still has on average 5 evades pre 30 seconds from 0 endurance, while necros got 3.
Thats 2 more immunities and if i may mention, reliable and non survival cost related 1/3 uptime stealth.

On equal footing you still outsurvive a necro.

the point of the game mode is to capture points and hold them/contest them for as long as possible… so yes standing beyond 600 range going pew pew pew with staff does make you useless for your team..

Just one question after going throuh this topic:
Why are there so many non necro’s trying to explain necro’s how to play the profession?
and telling then necro’s their profession has everything going for it.. yet they don’t play it.?

i’m quite confuzzled about that.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Just one question after going throuh this topic:
Why are there so many non necro’s trying to explain necro’s how to play the profession?
and telling then necro’s their profession has everything going for it.. yet they don’t play it.?

i’m quite confuzzled about that.

Don’t make yourself get fooled. There are some users multiaccount-posting, you can check it yourself from “their” message hystory and the way “they” talk.
It’s easy enough to detect "em’ ".

The answer is: it’s a matter of EGO, everyone feed it the way they like.

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Just one question after going throuh this topic:
Why are there so many non necro’s trying to explain necro’s how to play the profession?
and telling then necro’s their profession has everything going for it.. yet they don’t play it.?

i’m quite confuzzled about that.

Many players have multiple profession. Now a days it is not uncommon for players, such as my self to have leveled all 8 professions to 80. It seems to me it is generally the players who only play necros exclusively, that are demanding stability. The rest of us are suggesting an alternative, such as a stun breaker or a similar function to one of the skills they are stating other professions have, that they are using to justify as a reason for stability. It seems this posters have decided they will settle for nothing short of stability though. Which some what nullifies there argument if you ask me.

coglin.1867:

Merlin Dyfed Avalon.5046:

Just one question after going throuh this topic:
Why are there so many non necro’s trying to explain necro’s how to play the profession?
and telling then necro’s their profession has everything going for it.. yet they don’t play it.?

i’m quite confuzzled about that.

Many players have multiple profession. Now a days it is not uncommon for players, such as my self to have leveled all 8 professions to 80. It seems to me it is generally the players who only play necros exclusively, that are demanding stability. The rest of us are suggesting an alternative, such as a stun breaker or a similar function to one of the skills they are stating other professions have, that they are using to justify as a reason for stability. It seems this posters have decided they will settle for nothing short of stability though. Which some what nullifies there argument if you ask me.

Understandable, i would love to have vigor or some blast or a non well condition conversion trough channeling.. stability is nice to have (and had.. DS nerf ) but not a necessity.

I play all classes more than i play my necro these days. I dont think stability would be too much. But im also ok with it just becoming a stunbreak.

The more I play other professions the more I think we need access to stability on utility/elite (that doesn’t involve a transform). I mean hell, my flesh golem has better stability than I do.

I’m not sure giving Necros more stability would be wise. That susceptibility to CC is what allows Mesmers and Engis to compete against a class that hard counters them. It would certainly allow Necros to have a better time against Warriors but then again, most classes struggle against Warriors in their current state.

I haven’t touched my Necro in a while, but does nobody use multiple stun breakers anymore? I mean, if I don’t take Blink and Decoy on my Mesmer I will get obliterated by the first competent Warrior or Thief that comes along.

The problem is necro builds often revolve around the utilities they take so slotting 3 stunbreaks kind of lacks a lot in other areas. Other classes builds are often defined by their weapons and they can afford to slot 3 pure defensive utilities without losing much effectiveness (excluding engi).

Simonoly.4352:

I’m not sure giving Necros more stability would be wise. That susceptibility to CC is what allows Mesmers and Engis to compete against a class that hard counters them. It would certainly allow Necros to have a better time against Warriors but then again, most classes struggle against Warriors in their current state.

I haven’t touched my Necro in a while, but does nobody use multiple stun breakers anymore? I mean, if I don’t take Blink and Decoy on my Mesmer I will get obliterated by the first competent Warrior or Thief that comes along.

Necros don’t use multiple stunbreakers because you really just can’t fit them in. Each class of skill only has one stunbreaker, and you’re kinda locked into your utility setup depending on what your build is. Power Wells, you need Suffering/Corruption. Condi, you need Signet of Spite and Epidemic(or BiP, I don’t keep up that much). MM, you need all three of your utilities to be minions. This pretty much jams you into one stunbreaker on a very long cooldown(Spec Armor), or a modest cooldown which requires preparation for Flesh Wurm.

With that in mind… I don’t know if putting 3-5 second stability/stunbreak on locust signet and leaving it there will be that big of a deal. It’s still a 60 second cooldown. It definitely could use changes, because the active portion of the skill is just a waste of time(and therefore, a bad signet)- But I don’t think it’ll have an incredible effect which turns the necro into a powerhouse, especially considering you still have to get at least two vital utilities. Instead of Spectral Armor/Walk, you take Locust Signet, and swap out Protection/Swiftness for a bit of Stability.

On it being a bad signet; Siggy of the Locust is just as bad as Healing Signet. You should never press Locust Signet, just like you should never press Healing Signet.

the problem with the stunbreaks necro has now is they are tied to utilities that usually need to be used when we are not being held down by stuns, not to mention they only negate one blast of cc and don’t get the necro out of point blank range…

i would love it if they gave necro teleports and leaps but they already said they wouldn’t so why argue for it? at least it has a chance for stability

infact i would take at least one stealth over stability… then a necro can actually disengage target and reset somewhere else

Sarrs.4831:

Necros don’t use multiple stunbreakers because you really just can’t fit them in.

Now I just don’t buy that. I do not say that purely in the context of necros either. I find that a weak reasoning, personally. Similarly, I have defended against cries to nerf necros condition out put when poster suggest they refuse to use more condition removals. As I see it, a player deserves to die quickly to condition damage when they refuse to use the tools available to them to counter them. You deserve to die quickly to direct damage builds when you claim you prefer to stack other stats, over taking toughness. You similarly deserve to die quickly to CC builds when you use the tools avaliable to you to counter them.

To suggest you cannot counter something, simply because you refuse to build for it because you prefer to build in other ways is a horrible reason to demand changes to any given profession.

Having said all that, I do think that when we look at all of the other professions as a while, all of the stun breakers on the necro seem to lean more towards a 6th cool down, and probably should be reduced to a 4s cool down. I know personally, I would much prefer that over losing something like my 25% movement rate increase.

^
If this is “correct” then we should use our utilities just for Stunbreakers, leading out of the meta those builds wich relies on using other utilities as key skills for their builds.
We yet seen that happening with Epidemic which isn’t used in favour of more versatile and protective skills.
So if the circumstance “bring more stunbreakers or be cannon fodder” is true, it requires us to have stronger utilities more indipendent from the build.

That’s why stability (not with 1 second of duration..) should go on some of our utility skills. To fix a serious balance issue and to allow more space for build variety.

coglin.1867:

Sarrs.4831:

Necros don’t use multiple stunbreakers because you really just can’t fit them in.

Now I just don’t buy that. I do not say that purely in the context of necros either. I find that a weak reasoning, personally. Similarly, I have defended against cries to nerf necros condition out put when poster suggest they refuse to use more condition removals. As I see it, a player deserves to die quickly to condition damage when they refuse to use the tools available to them to counter them. You deserve to die quickly to direct damage builds when you claim you prefer to stack other stats, over taking toughness. You similarly deserve to die quickly to CC builds when you use the tools avaliable to you to counter them.

To suggest you cannot counter something, simply because you refuse to build for it because you prefer to build in other ways is a horrible reason to demand changes to any given profession.

Having said all that, I do think that when we look at all of the other professions as a while, all of the stun breakers on the necro seem to lean more towards a 6th cool down, and probably should be reduced to a 4s cool down. I know personally, I would much prefer that over losing something like my 25% movement rate increase.

Actually, unlike condi removal, the 2 stun breaks which are on necro and functional (Swalk and Sarmor) both make you extremely weak in AoE situations compared to engie who can then do the same thing you do but better with just the safety of Elixir S; on the other hand a bunker build with em will have the ability to just break out of 2 stuns pre 40, while for example a guard with StG will be immune to cc for 5/25.

I think that you get the picture especially when compared with the amount of blocks, invuls, evade moves and free teleports which other professions get.

coglin.1867:

Sarrs.4831:

Necros don’t use multiple stunbreakers because you really just can’t fit them in.

Now I just don’t buy that. I do not say that purely in the context of necros either. I find that a weak reasoning, personally. Similarly, I have defended against cries to nerf necros condition out put when poster suggest they refuse to use more condition removals. As I see it, a player deserves to die quickly to condition damage when they refuse to use the tools available to them to counter them. You deserve to die quickly to direct damage builds when you claim you prefer to stack other stats, over taking toughness. You similarly deserve to die quickly to CC builds when you use the tools avaliable to you to counter them.

To suggest you cannot counter something, simply because you refuse to build for it because you prefer to build in other ways is a horrible reason to demand changes to any given profession.

Having said all that, I do think that when we look at all of the other professions as a while, all of the stun breakers on the necro seem to lean more towards a 6th cool down, and probably should be reduced to a 4s cool down. I know personally, I would much prefer that over losing something like my 25% movement rate increase.

The issue is that to even perform a role that a team needs, necros need to use 2/3 utilities to complete that role, and none of those necessary skills are stunbreaks. Sure, a necro could bring more stunbreaks, but then he just isn’t doing anything to justify his slot on the team.

coglin.1867:

To suggest you cannot counter something, simply because you refuse to build for it because you prefer to build in other ways is a horrible reason to demand changes to any given profession.

Not quite what I want. Low necro defenses against CC is not what I’m concerned with, and it’s not the problem that I want to address. Different classes having different strengths and weaknesses is a natural part of balance and a good thing for the game; beyond that, there are people more qualified than me who can decide whether the balance is right. Any of my observations are just that; observations.

I am looking at this entirely through the lens of “Signet of the Locust has one of the worst active signet effects in the game; how can we fix this”. Because it does; it’s horrid. It’s a <1k heal per target on a 60 second cooldown. It has no place on the bar of even the most dedicated lifedrain build.
Necros being sucky at managing CC is a route through which Signet of the Locust can find a place on a necro’s bar. If it becomes a clean and simple stunbreak, it now has a place- as a clean and simple stunbreak which gives you a dollop of healing when you use it.

coglin.1867:

Having said all that, I do think that when we look at all of the other professions as a while, all of the stun breakers on the necro seem to lean more towards a 6th cool down, and probably should be reduced to a 4s cool down. I know personally, I would much prefer that over losing something like my 25% movement rate increase.

I’m not sure what you said. I think what you said is “i’d rather have my other stunbreaks buffed than have to ever think about using Signet of the Locust”. That makes Signet of the Locust a bad signet. It’s exactly the opposite of how Signets are supposed to play.

The other stunbreaks aren’t in a bad place- at least, as skills. They’re good skills. They might be bad stunbreaks, but they’re good skills, and they don’t need adjustment. The problem here is simple: signet of the locust sux

MercilessLemurs.7459:

@sheppy HP gives wiggle room when you get stun locked. And yes, warriors do have that, but look at other classes. Guards have lots of stability but low HP. Eles have lots of escapes but low HP. Ranger has mid HP and some stability. Mesmers, mid HP but with lots of escapes, at the cost of no movement speed. Engineer, mid HP and has escapes. If you look at these classes, the necro seems pretty ok now doesn’kitten

Guards hp isnt balanced off its stability its balanced off its sustain through heals. they also have the most aoe boon stacking of any class (many of which not even offered to necros such as vigor), mobility (including leaps), CC, and blocks.

I could go through the rest for you but I’m just not going to. You’re trying to compare 2 aspects of each class as the object of balance which is just unfair. No, necro’s are not okay. They have not been okay for quite some time.

I’m really disgusted. Truly. The condition argument is bad. Just stop. Fears? Fear has the most counters of any form of CC in the game (condition removal, stability, cc, condi flips, etc).

My theory is that so few necro’s are being played now that whenever somebody has to fight them they can’t even remember how to defend themselves. Probably most people’s build are focused around not being CC’d by wars and how to stop a bunker engi.

I’ve asked the question TIME AND TIME AGAIN: What is the warriors role? What do they lack? What is the engi’s role? What do they lack? Etc..

EVERYONE knows what the necro’s role is and what they lack. They are a 1-trick pony. Necro’s lack mobility, blocks, stability, invuln, leaps, cleaves, and a ton of other stuff I don’t even want to say for the millionth time.

So many people have the audacity to say stability on a necro will cause them to be too strong. THE GALL! Explain! Explain HOW it would be too much for you to handle? Kinda like how bunker engis are immortal? Kinda like how thieves are immortal? Kinda like how wars are immortal?

Oh no if they had stability then you’d have to actually think in this game (in real time) instead of having a manual that says target the NECRO first durrrrr. Cuz he cant go anywhere and cant stop your cc like any other class.

This is a long running joke by the devs imo. And the funniest part is some of its community find it legit.

^ someone finally gets it

been having trouble with guards lately every time I get some distance they just go NOPE and pull me back in or chuck me around with hammer but when I try to fear them off I get told NOPE!!! he has stability ha ha ha corrupt it.. he just blocks the snot out of me gaining more damage from the corrupt then pops it back on again =|…..

Ozzy Toxin.3074:

^ someone finally gets it

been having trouble with guards lately every time I get some distance they just go NOPE and pull me back in or chuck me around with hammer but when I try to fear them off I get told NOPE!!! he has stability ha ha ha corrupt it.. he just blocks the snot out of me gaining more damage from the corrupt then pops it back on again =|…..

And? The same thing happens to any other profession in the same situation. Are you suggesting guardians some how magically block necromancer skills more then other professions?

Honestly, from some of the stories or scenarios some of you are using to try to justify your unreasonable demand for one skill, makes me question your build, play style, and skill level.

What I find interesting, are comments like the “one trick pony” statement. Which trick are we talking about?

The devastating direct damage I put out on my necro?

The ridiculous manner that I can send conditions flying through the ranks of my enemies?

My ability to AoE boon strip my foe’s? The manner that I AoE cleanse my friends around me?

Sarrs.4831:

I am looking at this entirely through the lens of “Signet of the Locust has one of the worst active signet effects in the game; how can we fix this”. Because it does; it’s horrid. It’s a <1k heal per target on a 60 second cooldown. It has no place on the bar of even the most dedicated lifedrain build.

Unfortunately for you, that is not the topic of the thread. The topic as depicted in the OP and the title is whether or not it should have stability.

Sarrs.4831:

The other stunbreaks aren’t in a bad place- at least, as skills. They’re good skills. They might be bad stunbreaks, but they’re good skills, and they don’t need adjustment. The problem here is simple: signet of the locust sux

No. I said, I rather not have my 25% movement speed messed with then to risk losing it for a stability change.

I never suggested the other stun breakers are in a bad place as far as skills go. I simply suggested that they have a generally longer cool down then most stun breakers across the board. I feel they are better serving us at a kitten CD rather then 60s, and that the change would also help with the CC complaint.

I do find it comical that your demanding stability based on your complaint that you have trouble dealing with CC, then go on to state that your against lowering the professions stun breaker cool downs to assist with any difficulty dealing with CC. Personally, all that says to me is that your not looking for any real solution to the problem, but that you will avoid anything unless it is stability, which I do not find to be a ration argument at all.

As I see it, a player deserves to die quickly to condition damage when they refuse to use the tools available to them to counter them. You deserve to die quickly to direct damage builds when you claim you prefer to stack other stats, over taking toughness. You similarly deserve to die quickly to CC builds when you use the tools available to you to counter them.

To suggest you cannot counter something, simply because you refuse to build for it because you prefer to build in other ways is a horrible reason to demand changes to any given profession.

wow someone is watching this thread like a hawk… I was just venting I know how to kill guardians easily just not on this build =p

I wouldn’t mind if fig had a stunbreak added to it then it might be useful but it still removes any defence necro has if you want to try do anything useful, also it is not useful for many builds because of the extreme cost

the discussion of the locust signet is valid it is literally a pointless signet.. necro has so many other ways to gain swiftness that also add another benefit to them, also necro is heavily reliant on its utilities to actually kill anything taking it would make you weaker for no reason

I would be all for having stability on spectral skills if that’s what you want =p, you know utilities that actually increase out survivability and dps output instead of on a signet that literally adds nothing to that actually making a necro weaker

I’m a little surprised that no one has thought of putting a second or two(?) of stab on the Dark Armor trait. Give that a balanced cooldown, and it would give easy access to something Necros kinda need.

EDIT: This would affect Life Transfer, Life Siphon, and Ghastly Claws, if you’re curious.
EDIT2: Maybe move it up one on the trait tree. Maybe.
EDIT#%%#$: As for SoL, remove the movespeed, have it buff lifesteal like Bloodthirsty, give it an initial heal that scales down based on how many enemies are nearby.

AnonMD.7263:

I’m a little surprised that no one has thought of putting a second or two(?) of stab on the Dark Armor trait. Give that a balanced cooldown, and it would give easy access to something Necros kinda need.

EDIT: This would affect Life Transfer, Life Siphon, and Ghastly Claws, if you’re curious.
EDIT2: Maybe move it up one on the trait tree. Maybe.
EDIT#%%#$: As for SoL, remove the movespeed, have it buff lifesteal like Bloodthirsty, give it an initial heal that scales down based on how many enemies are nearby.

Thats just causing the same problems as foot in the grave. We want some reliable stability without being forced to trait for it. Even if its very minimal, all classes should have atleast one utility that helps them deal with their main weakness (in this case cc).

AnonMD.7263:

I’m a little surprised that no one has thought of putting a second or two(?) of stab on the Dark Armor trait. Give that a balanced cooldown, and it would give easy access to something Necros kinda need.

EDIT: This would affect Life Transfer, Life Siphon, and Ghastly Claws, if you’re curious.
EDIT2: Maybe move it up one on the trait tree. Maybe.

This list of skills is really limited. While that fits for an Adept trait, it really doesn’t change much in the overall meta for the class- Unless you build to use Life Siphon->Ghastly Claws->Life Transfer in succession, it’s not really going to do all that much. For a Master, it would be very underbudget.

AnonMD.7263:

EDIT#%%#$: As for SoL, remove the movespeed, have it buff lifesteal like Bloodthirsty, give it an initial heal that scales down based on how many enemies are nearby.

This just seems like it’ll make Signet of the Locust even worse. Locust is popular (where popular = worth using at all) because 25% movement speed for what you spend is huge, considering you have very limited access to mobility otherwise. Get rid of that, and now the skill’s got both a useless passive and a useless active.

If it’s gonna be a heal, it should scoot on over to the Heal slot. Then it just… Gets eaten alive by Consume Conditions, I guess.

Necros build around utilities not weapon skills. Ourweapons are lack.luster.
If we fit multiple stunn breaks we will lose practically every fight, for a necro to actualy be usefull in a fight we need all our utilities.

Go fit multiple stunn breakers on any necro build. Record what happens, post it here you will lose most if not all fights. Until you.do that you have no right to say use.more stunn breakers.

As for the. Condition excuse, most classes have a condi removal heal. Plus one or more utility removal. At most all you need against a condi necro is a heal condi removal and one utility. Not to mention in wvw all the condi cleanse spam going around.

oh noes its alive again. not going to let this die

I find stun breaks pointless I do take one but it only helps in 1v1 or sometimes 2v1 (from fat luck) the second you pop it they can just stun you again which is usually the case

I would actually like all classes to have at least one source of easily obtainable non traited access to stability.. you cant just give it to some people who also happen to have the most cc?!?! and ignore everyone else -.- even if they have a way to escape

alamore.1974:

Necros build around utilities not weapon skills. Ourweapons are lack.luster.
If we fit multiple stunn breaks we will lose practically every fight, for a necro to actualy be usefull in a fight we need all our utilities.

Go fit multiple stunn breakers on any necro build. Record what happens, post it here you will lose most if not all fights. Until you.do that you have no right to say use.more stunn breakers.

As for the. Condition excuse, most classes have a condi removal heal. Plus one or more utility removal. At most all you need against a condi necro is a heal condi removal and one utility. Not to mention in wvw all the condi cleanse spam going around.

But if i run a spectral build and use two stun breaks I’m usually just fine in wvw :/

WvW is almost as bad a point of balance as open world PvE is.

Bhawb.7408:

WvW is almost as bad a point of balance as open world PvE is.

WvW may not be the best place to show balance but I think that is allows for far more build diversity than pvp. There are builds that just wont work in pvp but are very fun and actually work in wvw.

Ynot.8397:

alamore.1974:

Necros build around utilities not weapon skills. Ourweapons are lack.luster.
If we fit multiple stunn breaks we will lose practically every fight, for a necro to actualy be usefull in a fight we need all our utilities.

Go fit multiple stunn breakers on any necro build. Record what happens, post it here you will lose most if not all fights. Until you.do that you have no right to say use.more stunn breakers.

As for the. Condition excuse, most classes have a condi removal heal. Plus one or more utility removal. At most all you need against a condi necro is a heal condi removal and one utility. Not to mention in wvw all the condi cleanse spam going around.

But if i run a spectral build and use two stun breaks I’m usually just fine in wvw :/

My necro would eat you for dinner. And you lose a lot of DPS by doings so, necros need all there utilities to even be worth while,

Post you build so I can see how." Good" it is

alamore.1974:

Ynot.8397:

alamore.1974:

Necros build around utilities not weapon skills. Ourweapons are lack.luster.
If we fit multiple stunn breaks we will lose practically every fight, for a necro to actualy be usefull in a fight we need all our utilities.

Go fit multiple stunn breakers on any necro build. Record what happens, post it here you will lose most if not all fights. Until you.do that you have no right to say use.more stunn breakers.

As for the. Condition excuse, most classes have a condi removal heal. Plus one or more utility removal. At most all you need against a condi necro is a heal condi removal and one utility. Not to mention in wvw all the condi cleanse spam going around.

But if i run a spectral build and use two stun breaks I’m usually just fine in wvw :/

My necro would eat you for dinner. And you lose a lot of DPS by doings so, necros need all there utilities to even be worth while,

Post you build so I can see how." Good" it is

I solo roam the vast majority of the time I play necro. I can burst people down without all of my utilities. If I run two stunbreaks it allows me to get out of a lot of sticky situations if you combine it with foot in the grave. I don’t really use dps utilties besides corrupt boon. Sometimes I sub in spectral wall/grasp.

You think you would “eat me for dinner” in a necrovnecro, butwhat utilties do you run? I can counter most necro builds if i try. Show me how “good” your necro build is.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?fRAQNAW7Yjc0Ubb5NG3wfbijhSqQI6A4A2WqnilIIA-TFyCABAcQAO+BAAouBPV/Z59HSUJIFXBgsU+BA-w

I run Spectral Armor and Plague Signet, two stun-breaks, and I win most fights. And claiming you’ll eat any player for dinner, then ask for their build and generally have no idea what said person is capable of, is the wrong side of confident. Underestimation is a really convenient way to lose fights.

Bhawb.7408:

WvW is almost as bad a point of balance as open world PvE is.

How are the two modes which are – probably the two most-played a bad source for balancing-focus? Shouldn’t they be, considering their significance?

Yes, you probably don’t like it, “game will be balanced for scrubs”. I wouldn’t like it either. It still makes sense though, because the players the game caters to should also be the ones the dev effort focuses on.

Ynot.8397:

WvW may not be the best place to show balance but I think that is allows for far more build diversity than pvp. There are builds that just wont work in pvp but are very fun and actually work in wvw.

That’s fine, but it still doesn’t mean you can use WvW as the basis for balance arguments.

Carighan.6758:

How are the two modes which are – probably the two most-played a bad source for balancing-focus? Shouldn’t they be, considering their significance?

Yes, you probably don’t like it, “game will be balanced for scrubs”. I wouldn’t like it either. It still makes sense though, because the players the game caters to should also be the ones the dev effort focuses on.

PvE is awful for balance because it is the least diverse of every game mode. Unless you are playing just for funsies, you basically ask yourself one question before making a build: how do I deal the most damage while giving utility to my team?

Necromancer is the worst off atm in PvE so lets use them as a point. How do you make them viable in PvE? You give them cleave, and you give them some unique utility skill line that gives them a buff type that no one else has. So lets say Orders, which would be similar to AoE auras, and cleave are added, and boom Necromancer is balanced and all is right in PvE.

If you want to balance PvE any more than giving each profession a good set of utility, then you change PvE, not the professions. PvE isn’t a good balance point because its very design vastly favors maxing DPS and utility over everything else, and as such it can never be balanced or diverse.

WvW is unbalanceable because how do you balance a gamemode with no limitations on how fights happen? How do you balance a 20v50 fight? How do you balance when uplevels are considered? How do you balance out one server having full BL 24/7? To balance something you first need to make everyone’s position balanced. WvW has no ways to really balance it without severely changing the game mode.

Compared to tPvP, where every team has the same amount of players guaranteed, with access to the same resources. Even if you do have a 2v1 one place, that means the rest of the map is a guaranteed 3v4. Even PvE technically could have this kind of idea (due to scaling, limits to how many people can fight a boss at once, etc.) if it didn’t have awful design that favors DPS>all.

TL;DR PvE can’t be balanced due to bad design, WvW can only be balanced to remove super OP things, and tPvP is the real place for balance.

Bhawb.7408:

TL;DR PvE can’t be balanced due to bad design, WvW can only be balanced to remove super OP things, and tPvP is the real place for balance.

Again, doesn’t make much sense. You’re developing for a minority, when you got a majority actually keeping your game afloat to balance for. You got PvE to improve (look at the later LS fights and how much they change up PvE compared to release-level stuff). You got WvW to improve and diversify.

Why waste resources on an unbalanceable minority game mode instead? Smallscale PvP in RPGs cannot be balanced below a certain team size (tPvP is much much too small).

The elements you cite, like equal team size, h igh personal stake in the outcome, those are not only elements which run counterintuitive to the whole “MMO”-idea, they also don’t work well with RPGs in the first place. Classes and specializations are meant to falter and succumb in certain situations. They’ll need the other classes and specs to make it through those situations.

And really, as much as we more vocal players can complain on the forums, 90%+ probably couldn’t care any less about whatever tPvP-imbalance there is. That’s really the big issue, the MMO devs generally see the equality-type of PvP balance as a beneficial side effect if they can create it while doing something else. It’s not going to be a focus as a result of how unimportant it is to the game’s health as a whole (players don’t notice the amount of imbalance the vocal community complains about).

Carighan.6758:

Again, doesn’t make much sense. You’re developing for a minority, when you got a majority actually keeping your game afloat to balance for. You got PvE to improve (look at the later LS fights and how much they change up PvE compared to release-level stuff). You got WvW to improve and diversify.

They aren’t developing for a minority. PvE has 10x the changes (just not balance ones) that PvP does. Because PvE can’t be balanced until they change the mechanics. You can’t balance PvE so long as its a DPS race, no amount of profession balance changes will solve that, so why bother.

Carighan.6758:

Why waste resources on an unbalanceable minority game mode instead? Smallscale PvP in RPGs cannot be balanced below a certain team size (tPvP is much much too small).

They could choose any point to balance they want. You could try to balance 1v1, 2v2, whatever you wanted. Its the fact that tPvP has everything balanced except for the professions, so the professions are the last key that needs balancing. Every other part of the mode is balanced though, which cannot be said of PvE or WvW.

Carighan.6758:

The elements you cite, like equal team size, h igh personal stake in the outcome, those are not only elements which run counterintuitive to the whole “MMO”-idea, they also don’t work well with RPGs in the first place. Classes and specializations are meant to falter and succumb in certain situations. They’ll need the other classes and specs to make it through those situations.

That doesn’t matter if they are counter to MMOs, it is what balance needs. You cannot balance WvW while it is possible for one server to have 2x the number of players as their enemy. You can’t balance it when you can have uplevel players with subpar loadouts. The entire game mode isn’t balanced, and isn’t designed to be balanceable.

Carighan.6758:

And really, as much as we more vocal players can complain on the forums, 90%+ probably couldn’t care any less about whatever tPvP-imbalance there is. That’s really the big issue, the MMO devs generally see the equality-type of PvP balance as a beneficial side effect if they can create it while doing something else. It’s not going to be a focus as a result of how unimportant it is to the game’s health as a whole (players don’t notice the amount of imbalance the vocal community complains about).

That has nothing to do with anything, but okay?

You haven’t addressed what I said:
PvE cannot be balanced as long as its a DPS race. This has been the case since launch. To balance PvE they need to completely redesign the boss encounters, dungeons, fractals, etc. This is completely separate to what the balance team is actually involved in, so they are completely unrelated and can happen simulatenously.

WvW cannot be balanced from a profession standpoint when nothing else is balanced. Uplevels, being able to simply have more players than the other person, more money, buying out the best guilds, having players on all the time. Unless they redesign WvW, it is impossible to balance.

Bhawb.7408:

They could choose any point to balance they want. You could try to balance 1v1, 2v2, whatever you wanted. Its the fact that tPvP has everything balanced except for the professions, so the professions are the last key that needs balancing. Every other part of the mode is balanced though, which cannot be said of PvE or WvW.

What about game mode (1) and few maps (small capture points) ? I dont play much tPvP but from what i see on the forum the tPvP favour fast movement/point bunker builds way more than any others.

In WvW you can create “ineffective” tPvP build and still be good at something and it’s not because of food/stats.

please read the title and stop derailing the thread…. this is not about pve or wvw this is spvp and lack of stability thank you