put stability on locust signet..
zero sacrifice?….. so the loss of a utility that actually does damage or lowers damage taken for pure speed or stability on a massive cooldown that probably wont be used more then once per fight is zero sacrifice?
ok what ever lol!
fyi stun breakers do nothing in a group situation without a way to get out of it that’s why stun breakers work on the other professions they pop it and it can have the dual effect of concealing them or teleporting them or making them invulnerable if it doesn’t then they can just jump, teleport, use a leap and it gets you away from the problem area
when a necro uses a stun break he is still standing in the same spot that has multiple people smashing it with cc it is basically a light armour class that is forced into being a heavy melee class,
if you didn’t notice the trend with stability. warrior (melee class close quarters combat) guardian (melee class, close quarters combat) necro (range class that cant stay at range due to every ones mobility thus turning it into a forced melee themed class of close quarters combat)
Stun breakers may do nothing for you in a group situarion, but for myself and many others, they win fights. If you are specifically having difficulty getting out of problematic locations, perhaps you could use more awareness to avoid those locations and slot skills that aid you in escaping them. If you like, I can invite you to my PvP server and teach you some tips to aid you in your problematic areas.
As far as your reference to group play, you would have group members giving you stability in AoE buffs. I know, because when I command on server in WvW, my group mates do this for me. As I see it, your complaints about group play are counterintuitive to how professions work together, and game design. You may be better served to learn to play to your team mates strengths, instead of demanding they change the game to suit a play style that is not conducive to team work.
well with that point of view then you should be all for putting stability on the locust signet, then a necro completely wastes a utility slot that could be used to kill the enemy or protect its self, seeing as their team will be giving them stability and swiftness anyway so it will make it easier for you to kill him. I am still failing to see why you are so against this.
and as for positioning on the slowest moving class are you suggesting I just stand at range with a staff and go pew pew pew yay im helping…. because I do run around and watch out for the big hits but 2 dodges with no vigour can only get you so far
what other class do you see the sentence “your team needs to build around the necro to make it work”
I have tried every class but ranger now and find a necro the easiest class to kill… on all of them. even a non turret engie build and especially when im on my necro because I know what im doing. I can beat most classes and builds on my most recent build 1v1 through timing awareness and a lot of effort forcing them to make mistakes.
the only builds im am having trouble with are pu Mesmer dd ele and condi thief the ele can be win or lose depends if my chill hits at the right time and they don’t have a chance to block it
I use dd and axe focus I have spectral grasp spectral armour and either plague or spite signet. that’s 2 stun breaks, the second I am up against a competent group of people I get hammered with stuns and not all at once they wait till the first is over then apply the next and the next and so on, I have actually popped a stun breaker while spamming dodge and still not been able to avoid it (immob has already been cleansed)
I have tried team based necros with wells and staff aoe etc but it makes no difference what you run the outcome is always the same. if I can wait 8 seconds against a hambow for his invulnerability to wear off and still win without corrupt boon then why cant you wait 4-5 seconds to blow all of your cc’s on me and kill me after? heaven forbid you actually need to think against a necro.
(edited by ozzy.8059)
I have tried every class but ranger now and find a necro the easiest class to kill…
build =/= class
I do not understand what you are trying to say with that ^^^^^
Slippery slope there. Necromancers are vulnerable to hard control, very likely that is by design.
Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.
well necro seems to be the only class with a weakness now … classes that are meant to be vulnerable to conditions have all been given decent condi removal and some classes have no weaknesses…. others have such extreme mechanics to get around their weakness they may as well not have one once you learn how to abuse them
necro…… nothing you can make yourself pointless and do barely any damage for 3s of stability that has an impractical activation mechanic tied to a source that isn’t always there and reduces your damage or your survivability. that’s it
necro…… nothing you can make yourself pointless and do barely any damage for 3s of stability that has an impractical activation mechanic tied to a source that isn’t always there and reduces your damage or your survivability. that’s it
Yea because FITG (stability) reduces our survivability or dmg.
Isn’t always there ? Locus Signet 60 sec, DS 10 sec.
(edited by pierwola.9602)
Slippery slope there. Necromancers are vulnerable to hard control, very likely that is by design.
Warriors are vulnerable to conditions, very likely that is by design.
Wait for it…..
i7-6700K – M.2 PCIe 512GB R/W:2500/1500MB/s
GTX 980M – SSD 512GB R/W:550/520MB/s
17.3" 1080p – 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
GTX 980M – SSD 512GB R/W:550/520MB/s
17.3" 1080p – 32GB 2400MHz DDR4
^ its not just warrior every profession but necro has options to get past their weakness without too much sacrifice. most of the time its in their weapons/utilities
necro…… nothing you can make yourself pointless and do barely any damage for 3s of stability that has an impractical activation mechanic tied to a source that isn’t always there and reduces your damage or your survivability. that’s it
Yea because FITG (stability) reduces our survivability or dmg.
Isn’t always there ? Locus Signet 60 sec, DS 10 sec.
3s of stability = 1 or 2 life blasts that the enemy will dodge then its over not to mention you wont hit as hard..
it is not always there. you pop ds when someone comes in with a massive hit or tries to spike you then what? they have free range with their cc after that. or you flash ds so you can get the stability during a cc chain but now you have no defence.
not to mention you kill all build diversity because you don’t have many points to spend after it -.-
life force does run out eventually
(edited by Ozzy Toxin.3074)
3s of stability = 1 or 2 life blasts that the enemy will dodge then its over not to mention you wont hit as hard.
3s of stability = 1 or 2 CC that i don’t have to dodge (i can save it for your massive hit). Life is hard, you can’t have your cake and eat it.
it is not always there. you pop ds when someone comes in with a massive hit or tries to spike you then what? they have free range with their cc after that. or you flash ds so you can get the stability during a cc chain but now you have no defence.
DS is not the only defence that i have. However i’m a bit worried how you will survive the 60 sec cd on locus signet with only 1 DS.
not to mention you kill all build diversity because you don’t have many points to spend after it -.-
o0
life force does run out eventually
Whose fault is that ?
(edited by pierwola.9602)
^so what is your build like after sinking so much into sr to get it? you either get no damage and some small healing or you get some damage.. not great damage -.- and still be useless with no healing and die anyway. it takes away too much for so little.
locus signet would have a longer duration then fig meaning it actually makes a difference. you can use it with any build just like everyone else can use their stability utility with any build. you would still have your ds for backup you would still be useful.
the way it is now it goes like this
oh a necro…. pop own stability cc 111111111111 next cc 111111111 another cc 11111111 hes dead yays. I do it myself to them even on my own necro with spec grasp immob from dagger charge from golem and the fear in ds, its too easy
it may not always play out like this but the normal situation is most necros only have 1 stunbreak if the first cc fails the next will get them and so on.
I have said this before and will say it again.. if I can wait 8-10s for zerker stance and kitten for the invulnerables to finish on a warrior so I can actually do something then why cant you wait for 5s of stability to end on a necro? other classes have defensive abilities too
(edited by Ozzy Toxin.3074)
^so what is your build like after sinking so much into sr to get it? you either get no damage and some small healing or you get some damage.. not great damage -.- and still be useless with no healing and die anyway. it takes away too much for so little.
locus signet would have a longer duration then fig meaning it actually makes a difference. you can use it with any build just like everyone else can use their stability utility with any build. you would still have your ds for backup you would still be useful.
I don’t know how you are running your necro but I sink 30 into SR every time and always have enough damage to kill bunkers fairly quickly. I don’t think my damage is low by any means. This is on a condi build. Can I ask what kind of build you use with 30 in SR that has such low damage?
Ferguson’s Crossing→ SoS→ DR→ EBay
^so what is your build like after sinking so much into sr to get it? you either get no damage and some small healing or you get some damage.. not great damage -.- and still be useless with no healing and die anyway. it takes away too much for so little.
I have enough dmg to kill most of my enemies and more healing than you think. I don’t sink anything in SR.
locus signet would have a longer duration then fig meaning it actually makes a difference. you can use it with any build just like everyone else can use their stability utility with any build. you would still have your ds for backup you would still be useful.
Yea, say hit to my boon removal skill (passive LS = save 1 removal for necro). Long duration boon dont make any difference if you cant hide it.
p.s I dont have anything against stability on LS
(edited by pierwola.9602)
After reading all of Ozzy Toxins spam of post, I really have to question his play style combined with his build.
He is making issues that feel like minor inconveniences, at best, to me when I play, as if they are game breaking and world ending disasters.
Ozzy, have you spent much time or leveled any other professions? I know that I felt I was knowledgeable on my main at first, until I spent the time in WvW to level all the other 7 professions to 80. Once I had invested that time on the other professions, I learned a great deal that changed my understanding of each profession as a whole. Perhaps leveling some other professions and learning their limitation, would do you a great srvice in understanding the necromancer better.
^so what is your build like after sinking so much into sr to get it? you either get no damage and some small healing or you get some damage.. not great damage -.- and still be useless with no healing and die anyway. it takes away too much for so little.
I have enough dmg to kill most of my enemies and more healing than you think. I don’t sink anything in SR.
just trying to say how much it kills necro to get some stability you need to sink 6 trait points into sr to get
my play style is fine i can kill most builds 1v1 i welcome a thief to try kill me (they are a nice source of ds regen) the fact is, alone the cc from some builds is manageable but the moment you add a friend that necro is shut down, or so focused on the guy trying to shut you down you cant do anything to the other while they attack you (most of our useful attacks are single target and no cleave), just to note i do not expect to win a 2v1 but i also do not expect to die in 3 seconds, this scenario still happens even when it is equal teams 2v2 3v3 5v5. why wouldn’t you focus a class that cant get away, cant disengage target and is very single targeted damage wise while built for power
i would love to see you play your necro without hindering your team by forcing them to build a certain way as to peel for you and grant stability for you constantly, you know do things they don’t need to do for any other class in the game. i could probably guess what you are going to use right now but i will just keep that to myself.
i have 80 warrior necro Mesmer engie, i have been using thief (why they are so easy for me now) ele (still extremely bs to go up against if built right), lvl 40 guardian not exactly rocket science, not bothered with ranger self explanatory can be easy to kill.
(edited by Ozzy Toxin.3074)
Bottom line is this: Stability is extremely useful skill and certain classes such as the Necromancer now have almost zero access to it except through others (they could have used Lyssa Runes prior to the recent nerf). There is ZERO EXCUSE for not have every class with at least one decent utility skill source of stability. Its a tradeoff every player of every class should be allowed to make. If the ANet team cannot figure out class balance by being reasonable and fair to all classes they should probably find another job.
Nerf Shadow Arts condition cleanse. Gut the
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
Looking at the direction the thread is going it seems that this ‘solution’ that is being asked for is ‘please allow necromancers for the investment of one slot mitigate two of the professions weak points, but the cool down would be too long so please cut it by a third (traits not being taken into account).’
While the lack of stability might be an issue, but the solution, lacks purity of purpose it would become a right answer. Yes I know that warrior has be handed right answer hand oven fist, but what can anyone do. Developer and some of the player base wanted the warrior to be a presence in pvp so they overtuned them they same way they over tuned necromancers to make sure they were a presence in the PAX tournament, they are still making adjustment, but that is off topic and there are tons of threads with that focus.
Pets have been hidden due to rising Player complaints.
well the only solution is stability in some way that doesn’t kill builds…. you can’t force a class to facetank and give them no way to do it…………… maybe if they made wod last 20 seconds fine or lowered cooldowns by a lot then fine. but the way it is now.. necro can’t do what it is meant to do against people with half a brain =\
the only necro build I lose to is terrormancer and that is literally because I cant do anything about it even with 2 stun breaks the cd of the fears is too fast in comparison. I wouldn’t complain if they bought corrupt boon hats off to them. but at least I had a chance or it was down to me for not dodging it/interrupting it.
the way it is now is just.. too bad you had no chance anyway… same for any situation where cc is too highly prevalent.
you also say im asking for a way to negate my weakness… well engie got stability and decent condi cleans if they choose to use it
warrior is meant to be weak to conditions lol.
Mesmer is meant to be weak to cc but guess what? (stealth, many stunbreaks that teleport and can stealth removing them from the situation) they are also meant to be weak against condis but they have also been given utilities that can get rid of them fairly well if they choose to take it…not to mention with traits…
ranger just got given a counter to their condi weakness…..
guardians.. I don’t really know what they are weak to tbh
notice a pattern here?.. what does a necro get? 30 points into sr ruining any possible decent builds for 3s of stability that also removes its defence if it flashes ds woo….. its basically a glorified stun break (if you are not already being hammer trained) with a duration like that.
our current stun breaks are on a massive cd and do not remove us from the problem area or remove the target meaning people don’t even need to think to hit a necro… especially with aoe stuns/knockdowns,
right now even if I try to be sneaky the second a competent player sees me they break off from what they are doing and kill me first because they know I cant do anything about it once the cc train starts.
(edited by Ozzy Toxin.3074)
im all open to suggestions if you guys have any. maybe yours is better then mine
ps I never asked for the cooldown to be removed from the signet =\ I think its fine having a 1 minute cooldown
(edited by Ozzy Toxin.3074)
notice a pattern here?.. what does a necro get? 30 points into sr ruining any possible decent builds for 3s of stability that also removes its defence if it flashes ds woo….. its basically a glorified stun break (if you are not already being hammer trained) with a duration like that.
Just stop it.
well its true =p
If the ANet team cannot figure out class balance by being reasonable and fair to all classes they should probably find another job.
Ah, with many of these comments I wish the people would end up in the industry, and actually face the class balance issue.
It’s not such a trivial issue as we make it out to be. It’s not even an easy or average issue. It’s a conceptual question, “Do you want unique-feeling classes” versus “Do you want a smallscale-capable class balance setup”. And the worst part is, players want both. Despite being opposed to each other.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
you also say im asking for a way to negate my weakness… well engie got stability and decent condi cleans if they choose to use it
Im necromancer and i have best acces to stability in the game when build for it.
Its true, close the topic.
(edited by pierwola.9602)
but theirs is all in utility not traits
notice a pattern here?.. what does a necro get? 30 points into sr ruining any possible decent builds for 3s of stability that also removes its defence if it flashes ds woo….. its basically a glorified stun break (if you are not already being hammer trained) with a duration like that.
Just say that you want stability in your build without losing anything.
FITG remove necro defence ? Nah its l2p issue.
(edited by pierwola.9602)
anyway I was just trying to help but it seems some people seem to have a giant hatred for necro and think its best kept out of pvp, pve and only used in wvw…….
I really don’t see why this would be op its no diff to what warrior guard or engie get but you are fine with them. maby you all just like the free kill I don’t know =\
a necro would lose utility like everyone else does it still hurts the necro more because it is reliant on its utility to do anything because of slow cast times and low damage weapons.
Slippery slope there. Necromancers are vulnerable to hard control, very likely that is by design.
Yes it is by design… But I also remember Anet saying they want warriors to be somewhat weak to conditions…. LOL that is not happening anymore for sure.
Every class has some reliable way to deal with their weakness. Necro seems to lack in that department.
Every class has some reliable way to deal with their weakness. Necro seems to lack in that department.
And weakness to CC is not specifically listed as a class weakness. Our weakness is to being bursted by teams because we have no ways to escape or negate damage, and only have some (weak) mitigation via things like weakness/protection and DS. Our weakness to CC is derivative of our weakness to losing a match quickly and being unable to access our sustain.
Necromancers are supposed to be weak to burst, to get us out of the fight before we sustain, and our lack of mitigation. CC is only our weakness because we don’t have stability, not because we’re designed to be so. Every single time they talk about Necromancers they talk about sustaining through fights, about being in-fighters. The most important tool to this is a way to ignore CC for small windows.
Is stability on locust signet the way to go? Not sure. But we need stability if we want to be realistic about making attrition work. So its even more than spoj says, we aren’t just the only profession without mechanics to deny one of our weaknesses (for a duration on a CD), we have a weakness to something we really shouldn’t even.
(edited by Bhawb.7408)
its the best way I could think of that wouldn’t bring on a lot of qq or zomg noooo he will be opeezzz to give a necro stability =s if not then I will gladly take instant stunbreak teleports on spectral skills easy access to vigour and stealth please or a lot of instant cc on reasonably low cool down on my weapons. =p
If the ANet team cannot figure out class balance by being reasonable and fair to all classes they should probably find another job.
Ah, with many of these comments I wish the people would end up in the industry, and actually face the class balance issue.
It’s not such a trivial issue as we make it out to be. It’s not even an easy or average issue. It’s a conceptual question, “Do you want unique-feeling classes” versus “Do you want a smallscale-capable class balance setup”. And the worst part is, players want both. Despite being opposed to each other.
People don’t play “concepts” they play classes. A little too much naval gazing by ANet and not enough actual play testing of the various classes across all of the games content is what’s going on here. Adding stability as a utility skill option for classes that currently lack it would be trivial to implement, reasonable and not unbalancing. You don’t even have to be particularly generous with the stability provided by the skill. Say 5-6 seconds with a 60 second CD. Right now any necro equipping Lotus Signet is making a tradeoff – movement (and a bit of emergency healing) for a combat utility skill. It would be the end of the world for them to have a tradeoff of movement + 6 seconds of stability on a 60 sec CD instead?
Seriously, is the argument here that the current state of the game is so wonderfully balanced that this would just destroy it? If you want to understand exactly how unbalanced the game is currently and why it needs to change – just look at the recent live stream and the red post in response to Warriors listing their “weaknesses.” Compare those weakness to the inherent weaknesses of the Necromancer (light armor, crappy minion AI, seriously limited mobility and serious susceptibility to crowd control). The only thing that is danger by this suggestion or the idea of allowing all classes some access to stability through a utility skill is the GWEN meta in WvW or the “zerk heavies only” dungeon meta. Good riddance to both . . .
Nerf Shadow Arts condition cleanse. Gut the
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
(edited by Arrow.4619)
Adding stability as a utility skill option for classes that currently lack it would be trivial to implement, reasonable and not unbalancing. You don’t even have to be particularly generous with the stability provided by the skill. Say 5-6 seconds with a 60 second CD.
But, how come you are even in a situation where everyone wants personal access to stability in the first place? Aren’t you fixing a symptom instead of the underlying issue?
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Adding stability as a utility skill option for classes that currently lack it would be trivial to implement, reasonable and not unbalancing. You don’t even have to be particularly generous with the stability provided by the skill. Say 5-6 seconds with a 60 second CD.
But, how come you are even in a situation where everyone wants personal access to stability in the first place? Aren’t you fixing a symptom instead of the underlying issue?
I don’t think so. Look at the effects Stability nullifies, its a significant/powerful list of in-game effects. All of them are reasonable and appropriate for an MMO like GW2. What is inappropriate in this game is the lack of reasonable access to skills that counter them.
You can argue that the control effects Stability nullifies are too prevalent and whether or not that the real underlying issue. But right now they are prevalent especially in specific areas of the game. I don’t see that changing. I am arguing that what should improve is the ability of most classes to counter those control effects.
Nerf Shadow Arts condition cleanse. Gut the
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
Acrobatics trait line. Then sell it back
to them for $50. Brilliant! – ghost of P.T. Barnum
Yeah I’d argue they are too prevalent (or rather, too frequent and not powerful enough individually). Less and more powerful, and a raw stunbreaker becomes more important and the passive immunity stability provides less so.
I could also see a trade-off between stun-breaking on non-specific skills and stability work well. A class like a Warrior (say, class boon Stability) would have a ton of immunity to CC, but actually have no stunbreaker at all. On no skill. Or trait. Nothing.
The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.
Adding stability as a utility skill option for classes that currently lack it would be trivial to implement, reasonable and not unbalancing. You don’t even have to be particularly generous with the stability provided by the skill. Say 5-6 seconds with a 60 second CD.
But, how come you are even in a situation where everyone wants personal access to stability in the first place? Aren’t you fixing a symptom instead of the underlying issue?
Not really, no. It isn’t an issue if some people build for high CC if they themselves don’t have the best damage (Warriors would fall into this category, except for Strength Runes right now). They can keep you locked down, but not a whole lot else. Likewise, it isn’t an issue if multiple people CC chain you to death. They worked together and coordinated. They should be rewarded.
What is an issue is that some classes don’t have reasonable methods of responding to that. Especially necros, since they don’t have methods of avoiding the CC attacks in the first place and very long stunbreak cooldowns (average of 54 seconds untraited, 43.2 seconds traited).
Stability already plagues this game with too much access and stack ability. It completely can negate an entire build if you are a CC spec. If your complaining about being CCed, then learn the CC tells (almost all of them have one).
I have leveled all 8 professions to 80 in WvW and PvP. I only run stability on my warrior and guardian. I have no problem dealing with CC on any profession with stun breakers, dodges, and intelligence.
All the irrational demand for stability signifies, is a demand for a mindless immunity to control builds that skilled players successfully deal with on a daily basis.
I spent 8 hours yesterday commanding on my D/D necro on T1 server battles and never once felt like I needed stability. What I needed was mobility.