Guild Wars 2

There is no way I can earn enough Candy Corn for the Bloody Prince figure. Nor do I want to part with what little gold I have to make up the difference.

That said, to hold my candy corn till next year would take up way too much space. So here is my dilemma. If I convert it into Candy Corn Cob for next year will they even be worth anything? For all I know next year’s figure will need Candy Globs and the Cobs will be worthless.

Thoughts?

Will Candy Corn stay as rare as now or will we get more nodes as halloween comes closer?

All signs point to it staying at the same level. It’s certainly possible it will increase, but there hasn’t been any substantial hint that it will, and so that’s largely wishful thinking.

So I wouldn’t count on it.

So then the 20 slot bags will stay pointless. Noone cares if you have a 80g 20 slot back or a 10g 20 slot bag.

Grind will only be for cosmetic items!
doesn’t realize that no one can see a 20 slot pail

Probably. Still gotta farm the Labyrinth with alts if you want it quickly…

Note that you get an average of 10 Candy Corn every day from your personal CC node though. Multiply that by thousands of players and that’s a TON of Candy Corn entering the market every day. Don’t expect prices for CC to drop anytime soon, but 4 – 6 months down the line? It might be possible to get a 20 slot Halloween Pail for prices comparable to or cheaper than 10g.

Of course, I personally think this defeats the purpose of having a festive bag/mini if you only get it 6 months after the fact, but I just thought I’d point that out.

Zaxares.5419:

It might be possible to get a 20 slot Halloween Pail for prices comparable to or cheaper than 10g.

Of course, I personally think this defeats the purpose of having a festive bag/mini if you only get it 6 months after the fact, but I just thought I’d point that out.

Somehow i doubt there will still be a vendor selling a halloween pail in 6 months though.

It’s been stated by the devs that Sonders will continue to sell the Bloody Prince mini and the Pail even after Halloween is over:

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/livingworld/bam/Zhaitaffy-Vendor/first#post3029768

See Rachel’s second post.

However, Sonders will no longer trade Skulls/Nougat/Fangs for their upgraded versions, which I think is silly. They’re the biggest sinks for those particular festive items; if ANet really wants to soak up oversupply after events, it doesn’t make sense to remove the biggest sinks after the fact.

It’s pretty surprising that the halloween vendor will continue to sell halloween items all year. It definitely makes makes draining the economy of candy corn more efficient.

Zaxares.5419:

Note that you get an average of 10 Candy Corn every day from your personal CC node though. Multiply that by thousands of players and that’s a TON of Candy Corn entering the market every day. Don’t expect prices for CC to drop anytime soon, but 4 – 6 months down the line? It might be possible to get a 20 slot Halloween Pail for prices comparable to or cheaper than 10g.

Of course, I personally think this defeats the purpose of having a festive bag/mini if you only get it 6 months after the fact, but I just thought I’d point that out.

Note that the thousands of players you mentioned are all eating or hoarding their CC, so I doubt the price will drop by much.

That said, I have placed orders for about half a Pail’s worth of CC. When they ever start tricking in, I know I can buy the other half at the seller’s prices. I am nothing if not patient in this game.

panzer.6034:

It’s pretty surprising that the halloween vendor will continue to sell halloween items all year. It definitely makes makes draining the economy of candy corn more efficient.

You act like removing CC from the game is the most important thing that Anet should be focusing on, rather than you know, making content fun and the rewards for partaking in that content accessible.

Who really cares how much CC is in the game? It has no effect on anything.

You should also think about what a ridiculous Catch 22 this is.

If the main purpose of the design of the event is to get rid of the CC that players earn by participating in the event, then what is the difference between having the event and never having had it in the first place?

Ellisande.5218:

You act like removing CC from the game is the most important thing that Anet should be focusing on, rather than you know, making content fun and the rewards for partaking in that content accessible.

Who really cares how much CC is in the game? It has no effect on anything.

The whole reason things cost 20,000 is because there is too much candy corn in the economy so, yeah, i think it’s pretty important for them to make sinks so that rewards can be achievable and balanced.

If the main purpose of the design of the event is to get rid of the CC that players earn by participating in the event, then what is the difference between having the event and never having had it in the first place?

They apparently would actually like to use CC as an ongoing currency instead of flooding the market with new halloween currencies each year. If there are millions sitting in the TP, then that plan is untenable since the inflation is ridiculous. 20k CC items are proof of this.

panzer.6034:

Ellisande.5218:

You act like removing CC from the game is the most important thing that Anet should be focusing on, rather than you know, making content fun and the rewards for partaking in that content accessible.

Who really cares how much CC is in the game? It has no effect on anything.

The whole reason things cost 20,000 is because there is too much candy corn in the economy so, yeah, i think it’s pretty important for them to make sinks so that rewards can be achievable and balanced.

If the main purpose of the design of the event is to get rid of the CC that players earn by participating in the event, then what is the difference between having the event and never having had it in the first place?

They apparently would actually like to use CC as an ongoing currency instead of flooding the market with new halloween currencies each year. If there are millions sitting in the TP, then that plan is untenable since the inflation is ridiculous. 20k CC items are proof of this.

You really missed the point of my post.

It doesn’t matter if the TP is flooded with CC. The Trading Post is not going to collapse because it gets flooded with CC. We aren’t going to plunge all of Tyria into a massive depression by allowing players to accumulate CC. The only effect this will have is to, gasp, allow players to have fun by getting holiday items with a little less grind than Anet wants. OH NOES the world is going to end, players aren’t grinding their butts off for a 20 slot bag! The sky is falling! Save yourselves!!!!!

The purpose of the event should be for players to have something to be excited about and have a little extra fun and a nice reward to top their holiday event off. That’s what players like about events, it gives them everything they want without asking for anything, like a present from the developers to the players as a way of saying thanks for paying for our game.

If the event is nothing more than a Catch 22 then it is a complete failure of design as it exists for the sole purpose of negating itself.

KyreneZA.8617:

Note that the thousands of players you mentioned are all eating or hoarding their CC, so I doubt the price will drop by much.

Why would players eat their CC outside of days when Candy Corn consumption is needed for the daily? I honestly doubt a lot of CC is being destroyed that way. Hoarding is a more likely possibility (I’m hoarding mine by converting mine to Cobs whenever I get a thousand), but unless players are going for the mini or Pail, they’re probably going to sell the Cobs/CC at one point or another. That’s why I believe you won’t see prices for CC drop during the Halloween event itself, but some months down the line a drop is likely. You’re right in that how much it will drop by is unknown though, but I’m leaning towards a bigger drop than not, since the mini will only be sought by collectors, and I imagine most players will realise that it’s much cheaper to buy conventional 20 slot bags than get a Halloween Pail.

Ellisande.5218:

You really missed the point of my post.

It doesn’t matter if the TP is flooded with CC….The only effect this will have is to, gasp, allow players to have fun by getting holiday items with a little less grind than Anet wants.

You’re saying it doesn’t matter but then immediately turning around and stating that the only effect is allowing players to have fun with less grind. So which is it? Removing CC from the market is pointless or it lets them provide rewards with less grind?

If the event is nothing more than a Catch 22 then it is a complete failure of design as it exists for the sole purpose of negating itself.

The fact that it was a poorly designed failure of an event is certain. There are a number of ways they could have made it better. Taking CC out of the economy will help them to make better rewards next year, however, if they wish to still use CC as a balanced currency.

Ellisande.5218:

panzer.6034:

It’s pretty surprising that the halloween vendor will continue to sell halloween items all year. It definitely makes makes draining the economy of candy corn more efficient.

You act like removing CC from the game is the most important thing that Anet should be focusing on, rather than you know, making content fun and the rewards for partaking in that content accessible.

Who really cares how much CC is in the game? It has no effect on anything.

You should also think about what a ridiculous Catch 22 this is.

If the main purpose of the design of the event is to get rid of the CC that players earn by participating in the event, then what is the difference between having the event and never having had it in the first place?

These are the problems you get into when you get to the point of actually having to hire an economist to run your in game economy…

Currently Candy Corn is getting more expensive again
But I am not suprised. The best way to farm Candy Corn is dead. I went to labyrinth and only found a hand ful of people this evening. Almost all doors were up untouched. This is pretty bad considering I am on a server with very high PVE population and its primetime.

panzer.6034:

Ellisande.5218:

You really missed the point of my post.

It doesn’t matter if the TP is flooded with CC….The only effect this will have is to, gasp, allow players to have fun by getting holiday items with a little less grind than Anet wants.

You’re saying it doesn’t matter but then immediately turning around and stating that the only effect is allowing players to have fun with less grind. So which is it? Removing CC from the market is pointless or it lets them provide rewards with less grind?

Looking at the prices it’s clear that the latter is not the case, since the rewards come with bigger grind. Perhaps the future halloween will be designed well, but this one is a complete failure as a holiday event.

Astralporing.1957:

panzer.6034:

Ellisande.5218:

You really missed the point of my post.

It doesn’t matter if the TP is flooded with CC….The only effect this will have is to, gasp, allow players to have fun by getting holiday items with a little less grind than Anet wants.

You’re saying it doesn’t matter but then immediately turning around and stating that the only effect is allowing players to have fun with less grind. So which is it? Removing CC from the market is pointless or it lets them provide rewards with less grind?

Looking at the prices it’s clear that the latter is not the case, since the rewards come with bigger grind. Perhaps the future halloween will be designed well, but this one is a complete failure as a holiday event.

That’s the thing. The CC hasn’t been removed yet, so the cost of rewards is out of wack so far. In theory, if a ton of CC goes into to sinks they’ll feel more free to put out stuff at a lower cost next time.

It actually is not supported by experience. Thy did the same with jorbreakers and zhaitaffy – and it was in the event that introduced zhaitaffy into the game. The explanations they gave then suggested, that the prices were calculated using as a baseline people who would farm gold and buy taffy off market. Everything so far points to them not learning still why it was a bad idea.

I just bought 80 stacks of candy corn for the miniature on the market (what a lot of work to order so many stacks…). I must say the miniature does not look good enough for 20k candy corn. The miniature does not even wield the staff of the bloody prince. I can post a screenshot if anyone cares.

Malediktus.9250:

I just bought 80 stacks of candy corn for the miniature on the market (what a lot of work to order so many stacks…).

I think that’s a wonderful example of just how ridiculous the quantity is. The trading post isn’t bad if you’re trying to buy a couple of stacks of something, but 80? That must have been an enormous hassle.

Until the day they make the Bags actually visible on your character … then the people will care to pay such amounts. OR if they will make the orginal price for the 20 slot bags even more costly or even not craftable anymore.

panzer.6034:

Ellisande.5218:

You really missed the point of my post.

It doesn’t matter if the TP is flooded with CC….The only effect this will have is to, gasp, allow players to have fun by getting holiday items with a little less grind than Anet wants.

You’re saying it doesn’t matter but then immediately turning around and stating that the only effect is allowing players to have fun with less grind. So which is it? Removing CC from the market is pointless or it lets them provide rewards with less grind?

If the event is nothing more than a Catch 22 then it is a complete failure of design as it exists for the sole purpose of negating itself.

The fact that it was a poorly designed failure of an event is certain. There are a number of ways they could have made it better. Taking CC out of the economy will help them to make better rewards next year, however, if they wish to still use CC as a balanced currency.

I think maybe your post comes from spending too little time thinking about this event.

There is nothing paradoxical about my post. I am stating it doesn’t matter and then going on to say why it doesn’t matter. There being an excessive amount of CC o the TP means nothing. There is no reason to try removing an event item from the game because it has no cognizeable affect on the economy. Allows players to get 1 20 slot bag from minor participation in a holiday event is not a cognizeable affect on the economy.

And even if they for some reason thought that removing CC was the upmost importance so that they could then design the real holiday event that wasn’t focused on removing CC, they could have removed CC in a way that didn’t involve making the rewards for this holiday event unachieveable for players without a lot of money who didn’t have a huge CC stash lying around. And that method would be to simply remove all holiday currencies at the end of each holiday event and to make that design decision retroactive for all holiday currencies.

Bam problem solved without harming the players with little money who didn’t have large stocks of CC saved up. And we don’t need to worry about the players who did have large stacks of CC saved up because via removing holiday currency through this method Anet will have no way of justifying ridiculous grinds as a way of removing holiday currency from the market because the currency will remove itself at the end of the event, making hording pointless and allowing the players who did hoard to still be able to get the holiday items they want with minimal grinding during the holiday. Thus my way is a win-win-win, Anet’s way is a lose-lose-lose.

Even if you don’t agree, you will have to agree that worrying more about the non-issue of CC hoarding and less about the players being able to fully enjoy the holiday event lead to a design decision that made this holiday event a failure.

Astralporing.1957:

It actually is not supported by experience. Thy did the same with jorbreakers and zhaitaffy – and it was in the event that introduced zhaitaffy into the game. The explanations they gave then suggested, that the prices were calculated using as a baseline people who would farm gold and buy taffy off market. Everything so far points to them not learning still why it was a bad idea.

Exactly, you can’t design your game around the people who do the most grinding.

Especially when the selling point about your game is that the design philosophy is not having to spend all your time grinding.

This is clearly a complete betrayal of that philosophy and of all the players who purchased the game believing that philosophy really was the guiding principle behind the game design.

Ellisande.5218:

Astralporing.1957:

It actually is not supported by experience. Thy did the same with jorbreakers and zhaitaffy – and it was in the event that introduced zhaitaffy into the game. The explanations they gave then suggested, that the prices were calculated using as a baseline people who would farm gold and buy taffy off market. Everything so far points to them not learning still why it was a bad idea.

Exactly, you can’t design your game around the people who do the most grinding.

Especially when the selling point about your game is that the design philosophy is not having to spend all your time grinding.

This is clearly a complete betrayal of that philosophy and of all the players who purchased the game believing that philosophy really was the guiding principle behind the game design.

They’re not designing the game around those who do the most grinding. They know that it’s impossible to grind out the numbers of candy corn without resorting to the TP. They intend for you to use the TP to buy the candy corn.

So in order to obtain the Halloween items, you have to skip the Halloween events and grind like mad for gold — Frostgorge Champ train, for example. Pretty ironic.

As for the philosophy behind the game — the devs have long given up on it (not sure if they themselves ever believed it at all, or if it was just a marketing ploy) and it’s time we do as well.

I’m going to hang on to a stack of candy corn for crafting, mostly cooking, but I would just dump the rest that I can’t store. You could speculate on increased prices next year, and I’m sure someone has made a large profit on doing it this year, but I’m personally not interested in trading post speculation, even without the storage hassle involved.

I would not recommend eating it all clean through in one horrific binge.

You know, in case anyone was considering that. =D

Edit: It occurs to me I could be more clear: When I said “dump the rest,” I’ll probably be doing that on the trading post. All the people doing, well, exactly what I’m going to do will probably drop the market, but I doubt it will ever bottom out completely like it did last year, thanks to this year’s reduced supply. You might be able to make some profit, if you hold onto it all year, but I wouldn’t expect a massive return, and certainly not as much as some people made this year. I wouldn’t bother converting it into a cob if you can’t use it, because we don’t know what rewards will be offered next year, and cobs don’t seem to be in high demand this year, compared to the equivalent amount of candy corn.

I wouldn’t have thought they’d have given a storage space for cobs and other refined halloween mats in the collectibles if it wasn’t going to be a reoccuring item. Whether the Bloody Prince mini will be available to buy in future is another question, but I’m fairly confident that cobs will not be replaced by something different.

I am guessing that the Bloody Prince mini will be lost forever if not bought during this season. I would like it, but the figure is really not worth 20 cobs. Unless we are showered with a truck load of candy corn. I think Anet over priced this mini. After all the game is “supposed” to not be a grind to get stuff.

I think the Candy Corn items will be added to another NPC or the cobb guy is permanent. The fact that they put a CC node in your home instance certainly indicates the rewards were designed to be a long term goal for those that are not rich enough to buy the CC up front.

It appears that Anet has 2 goals here:

1. Remove excess holiday inventory from the game (Candy Corn in this instance)
2. Proved another long term time gated goal for those unable (or unwilling) to buy said inventory to obtain rewards later (CC node in home instance).

This is likely to be the approach to Wintersday items this year as well.

I think Anet stated that the npc that exchanges candy corn will stay in the game seeing that its the same npc that has exchanged zhaitaffy since dragon bash. Also with the candy corn node being added to home instances you can still get the mini after the event is over.

Ellisande.5218:

And even if they for some reason thought that removing CC was the upmost importance so that they could then design the real holiday event that wasn’t focused on removing CC, they could have removed CC in a way that didn’t involve making the rewards for this holiday event unachieveable for players without a lot of money who didn’t have a huge CC stash lying around.

Whether or not we’re talking past each other about the economy or the importance of this or that, the important thing is that we agree 100% on this point.

Astralporing.1957:

It actually is not supported by experience. Thy did the same with jorbreakers and zhaitaffy – and it was in the event that introduced zhaitaffy into the game. The explanations they gave then suggested, that the prices were calculated using as a baseline people who would farm gold and buy taffy off market. Everything so far points to them not learning still why it was a bad idea.

My impression was the the ridiculous amount of zhaitaffy needed to buy things was a direct result of the enormous surplus of holiday currency they saw sitting in the market (candy corn). They made everything in the world drop zhaitaffy and the knew this would flood the market, and thus made a proactive move to make something that cost a ridiculous amount. The cost of items in the current event is just an extension of this reaction.

It’s actually perfect: Everyone will be able to get this year’s Halloween items just in time for next year’s Halloween!

Just make sure you actually buy the items before Halloween next year since it’s likely they’ll update the requirements to need even more candy corn.

panzer.6034:

Astralporing.1957:

It actually is not supported by experience. Thy did the same with jorbreakers and zhaitaffy – and it was in the event that introduced zhaitaffy into the game. The explanations they gave then suggested, that the prices were calculated using as a baseline people who would farm gold and buy taffy off market. Everything so far points to them not learning still why it was a bad idea.

My impression was the the ridiculous amount of zhaitaffy needed to buy things was a direct result of the enormous surplus of holiday currency they saw sitting in the market (candy corn). They made everything in the world drop zhaitaffy and the knew this would flood the market, and thus made a proactive move to make something that cost a ridiculous amount. The cost of items in the current event is just an extension of this reaction.

Excepting that the end-item that could be purchased with zhaitaffy also dropped in the world at a more frequent rate than it would take a person to amass the money or obtain the wings via rng.

Halloween cut out the middle man and made it simply impossible without interaction with the BLTC.

It’s a knee-jerk reaction to something that doesn’t particularly affect players in the first place. Returning to: ‘Who cares if there’s too much candy in the trading post?"

Personally, I guess I can make candy corn food more often…? shrug

Hey, candy corn food lasts 45 mins compared to 30 mins for most other foods (and almost all of them give MF too), so they’re actually a pretty good deal!

I guess all we’ll (and here I inflect myself and other people who missed the first Halloween event last year) have to show for this year’s event is the meta mini and the good/bad memories associated with getting it. Fortunately I’m not personally sentimental enough to really be bothered by that (plus I did have fun with the meta and fighting against Eddie; puking on him cost me almost 20sp—didn’t know about him having to turn hostile first and I therefore wasted CC—but it was worth it and an absolute stroke of genius), but it does not bode well for newer players and future holiday events.

I do hope ArenaNet learns something positive for the players from the metrics of this one.

There’s also the new mask you get for participating in Mad King Says this year, but yeah… Halloween 2013 feels a lot more shallow than 2012 did.