Guild Wars 2

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Dan.2940:

( If you think im all talk, last night we had 2 servers camping the JP with full out zergs, we found a way to sneak past them and kill them all, and let me tell you, it was fun and satisfying.)

If they were decent, you would not be able to sneak past them, let alone beat them without vastly superior numbers.

I snuck past them with stealth, even if you’re the best player in the world, you can’t always predict where someone is in stealth. Believe it or not, people who camp the JP are usually people who prefer trolling over actually fighting, a lot of them are bad players who hide behind the fact that they have a larger group than you.

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

Dan.2940:

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

I did the achievement during the Pirates LS and I’ll be doing it again this time too, and for all the upcoming times they keep thinking this is a good idea. Doesn’t mean I’m going to sit back and shut-up about how stupid it really is.

Like you said, the achievement is bringing life back into the JP. There’s a reason regular WvWers didn’t go there. The effort and annoyances are not worth the gain. It’s just a place where trolls went for cheap-kils. So instead of making it more attractive for WvWers (after all, everyone keeps repeating how this is a WvW territory, so WvWers should be the target audience right?), they decide to lure in PvE players. How stupid of an idea is it to lure them into a WvW gankfest that even regular WvWers avoid? Making the reward 5 points or 50 doesn’t change that.

Dan.2940:

I snuck past them with stealth, even if you’re the best player in the world, you can’t always predict where someone is in stealth. Believe it or not, people who camp the JP are usually people who prefer trolling over actually fighting, a lot of them are bad players who hide behind the fact that they have a larger group than you.

In fact, there’s several places where you can easily put a trap in between random jumps that will immobilize, stun, chill, or cripple anyone who goes over with no way of avoiding it. Some of which will instantly kill via fall damage any who trigger it.

Honestly, the fact that you think stealth is some sort of catch all in an exceedingly linear jumping puzzle boggles my mind.

Dedlaw.9130:

Dan.2940:

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

I did the achievement during the Pirates LS and I’ll be doing it again this time too, and for all the upcoming times they keep thinking this is a good idea. Doesn’t mean I’m going to sit back and shut-up about how stupid it really is.

Like you said, the achievement is bringing life back into the JP. There’s a reason regular WvWers didn’t go there. The effort and annoyances are not worth the gain. It’s just a place where trolls went for cheap-kils. So instead of making it more attractive for WvWers (after all, everyone keeps repeating how this is a WvW territory, so WvWers should be the target audience right?), they decide to lure in PvE players. How stupid of an idea is it to lure them into a WvW gankfest that even regular WvWers avoid? Making the reward 5 points or 50 doesn’t change that.

TBH as a WvWer, i don’t mind the challenge but that’s my own preference, so with that aside, how does it lure in PvErs for 5 points? They can do the PvE achievements and can completely avoid this kite. If for some reason a PvE player wanted ALL the achievements, they have to deal with this crap and its at their own choice. The complaining on forums about the issue, does nothing. Arena net can’t stop people from camping the JP, they did it even before this kite was added to the map. They also added the kite to the JP because it was so dead, its obvious to see that. Would you really rather them just remove the achievement? How would that be of any gain to anyone?

Rottaran Owain.6789:

Dan.2940:

I snuck past them with stealth, even if you’re the best player in the world, you can’t always predict where someone is in stealth. Believe it or not, people who camp the JP are usually people who prefer trolling over actually fighting, a lot of them are bad players who hide behind the fact that they have a larger group than you.

In fact, there’s several places where you can easily put a trap in between random jumps that will immobilize, stun, chill, or cripple anyone who goes over with no way of avoiding it. Some of which will instantly kill via fall damage any who trigger it.

Honestly, the fact that you think stealth is some sort of catch all in an exceedingly linear jumping puzzle boggles my mind.

Did i say i was invincible in stealth? These campers aren’t some kind of evil geniuses to leave traps everywhere they THINK i’m going to go. From your previous comment, apparently people have to be less than decent for me to beat them in a fight? I never said i was a God, and you don’t have to be one to sneak past a zerg, don’t play this out like it ISN’T possible.

Edit
Just thought i would also add, don’t you think your thinking is a bit linear for a jumping puzzle? You assume i can’t condi cleanse, restealth, shadowstep, shadow refuge, roll for intiative, withdraw if i was caught by a trap?

I also dislike the fact that they put these achievements in the JP.
I find it unlikely that they want people to come in there that don’t really care about WvW, and then just be attacked over and over, that’s just frustrating.

The only conceivable reason why they put these achievements in there for me would be because they want it to be used more. And I think this is the wrong way to achieve that.

My suggestion is to make the jumping puzzle matter, by ripping out the chest at the end, and putting a control point there. A control point that counts towards your WvW points. This should make all WvW players care about it enough to be in there and actually using the jumping puzzle as its intended. To stop the invaders from making it and taking the control point. In fact I suspect (hope) it will be complete pandemonium in there… >:)

Of course this would mean no living story (temporary) achievements in that PVP JP at all, ever.

Or if you want to let PVE players go there as well put the achievements in a separate instance of the JP where PVP is disabled. You can choose which version you want to enter at the beginning. There should be no PVP rewards in the PVE version of course so that noone can get their hands on free siege. Perhaps add a normal PVE jumping puzzle chest at the end.

Everybody happy.

rodadams.5963:

So if I’m to believe [url=http://dulfy.net/2013/07/07/bazaar-of-the-four-winds-achievement-guide/[/url]Dulfy’s guide[/url] on the topic, the getting to the end of Obsidian Sanctum is once again an achievement.

So, basically, there’s 20pts I won’t be getting. (5pt for getting there, 15pt for the “Learning to Kite” meta).

I say I won’t be getting it, because every time I attempted to get to the Aetherblade cache, I encountered multiple groups from other servers that would just camp out at select chokepoints, and gank anyone trying to complete it.

I do not find subjecting myself to the torment of others enjoyable.

I cannot even try to do it, we are against DE this month so i can’t have access to entrance, because it’s inside a castle we don’t own. LOL

at least let people enter it, i mean. there are walls evrywere and i’m not a WvsW player so i find this SO FRUSTATING

Dan.2940:

how does it lure in PvErs for 5 points?

As you already said, completionist would be one reason. Another would be that AP now have value due to the reward system so players will want to be gaining every point they can.

Dan.2940:

if for some reason a PvE player wanted ALL the achievements, they have to deal with this crap and its at their own choice.

You can also use this claim if, hypothetically, Anet decided you need to pay 100g to finish a specific dungeon path. Just because completing it is not necessary does not make it any less of a stupid idea.

Dan.2940:

The complaining on forums about the issue, does nothing. Arena net can’t stop people from camping the JP, they did it even before this kite was added to the map.

Preventing it wouldn’t be necessary if they didn’t encourage people to go in there in the first place and none of the complaining on the forums would have been necessary.
And maybe the complaining does not change anything. But neither does defending it.

Dan.2940:

They also added the kite to the JP because it was so dead, its obvious to see that. Would you really rather them just remove the achievement? How would that be of any gain to anyone?

It was dead because no WvWers wanted to go there. If they wanted to bring a dead WvW area to life, why target PvEers by putting an achievement there? That’s like removing arrow cart blueprints and only making them available by doing Arah path 4. Wrong target audience

It was dead because no WvWers wanted to go there. If they wanted to bring a dead WvW area to life, why target PvEers by putting an achievement there? That’s like removing arrow cart blueprints and only making them available by doing Arah path 4. Wrong target audience

People keep using that logic, and it just doesn’t fly. Simply because of the ridiculous imbalance in existing achievements (and other things like gold, certain runes and gear sets, etc) that already force WvW’ers to go do PvE all the time if they want stuff.

If things were closer to equal, then I could see the complaint. But as it is, for a WvW player, seeing a PvE player whine about “being forced into content I don’t do” is quite frankly laughable.

What about the population that isn’t bothered by the PvP in the JP but didn’t think it was worth it going there? The achievement is for those people too.

It’s not as if anyone that likes the PvP map is in it and everyone that isn’t in it hates the place.

Dan.2940:

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

Just in reference. My complaints are unrelated to the achievement points. I like the jumping puzzle and wish I could actually go do it. However, everytime I go, I get ganked. It’s lame.

I wouldn’t even mind the PvP if it wasn’t designed so horribly. It encourages you to get attacked by a swarm. Perhaps if OS was created instanced with max 5 people per side. Then at least you could have some fair and interesting fights that happen while you are jumping.

As it is now, you go in and are merrily jumping along, and boom 20 guys are right behind you. Enjoy.

Is that fun for anyone? Maybe. I don’t understand why.

Dedlaw.9130:

Dan.2940:

how does it lure in PvErs for 5 points?

As you already said, completionist would be one reason. Another would be that AP now have value due to the reward system so players will want to be gaining every point they can.

Dan.2940:

if for some reason a PvE player wanted ALL the achievements, they have to deal with this crap and its at their own choice.

You can also use this claim if, hypothetically, Anet decided you need to pay 100g to finish a specific dungeon path. Just because completing it is not necessary does not make it any less of a stupid idea.

Dan.2940:

The complaining on forums about the issue, does nothing. Arena net can’t stop people from camping the JP, they did it even before this kite was added to the map.

Preventing it wouldn’t be necessary if they didn’t encourage people to go in there in the first place and none of the complaining on the forums would have been necessary.
And maybe the complaining does not change anything. But neither does defending it.

Dan.2940:

They also added the kite to the JP because it was so dead, its obvious to see that. Would you really rather them just remove the achievement? How would that be of any gain to anyone?

It was dead because no WvWers wanted to go there. If they wanted to bring a dead WvW area to life, why target PvEers by putting an achievement there? That’s like removing arrow cart blueprints and only making them available by doing Arah path 4. Wrong target audience

I don’t get where you get this information that WvWers dont like to do the JP, i do it with my friends all the time, and all we ever do is WvW, with the occasional pve for armor and new events (Like this one). Are you saying there shouldn’t be any PvP achievements then? Because PvErs want to be completionists? I agree that it shouldn’t be tied in with a pve event but PvErs can avoid it, like they avoid the sPvP achievements.

The only reason i am defending Anet is because i just don’t understand why for every new patch or update, there has to be whiners for something that isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Look at it as a way to get more achievement points, more options. Not a way to make OCD PvErs rage because they are missing 1 achievement in the event chain.

Jemmi.6058:

Dan.2940:

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

Just in reference. My complaints are unrelated to the achievement points. I like the jumping puzzle and wish I could actually go do it. However, everytime I go, I get ganked. It’s lame.

I wouldn’t even mind the PvP if it wasn’t designed so horribly. It encourages you to get attacked by a swarm. Perhaps if OS was created instanced with max 5 people per side. Then at least you could have some fair and interesting fights that happen while you are jumping.

As it is now, you go in and are merrily jumping along, and boom 20 guys are right behind you. Enjoy.

Is that fun for anyone? Maybe. I don’t understand why.

I understand your frustration with that, i hate when that happens to me too, but that happened even before the kite was added and is just more frequent to happen now that the kite is there. Getting ganked is part of the JP as much as getting ganked in WvW is part of WvW. Anet developed this JP to be different from the others, to have that PvP aspect to it, if you don’t like it, maybe do other Jump Puzzles? If you wanted everyone to be friendly in a zone where you can attack others, it isn’t going to happen.

It’s pretty simple: putting a PVE achievement in PVP zone = encouraging GRIEFING: that is supposed to be against Anet’s morals and views of their game yet they continue on implementing that kind of content. I do myself WvW (casual wvwer tho) and I still find this completely unacceptable. How contradictory can you be Anet? This is the second time you do this…

And to people saying “maybe they just did it before seeing the feedback?” The feedback from AR OS cache was already in before this patch rolled out and they created the game in such a way it is extremely easy for them to take something in-out of it. They could have just took that kite and put it at the end of another jumping puzzle and be done with it.. It’s not that hard. They deliberately chose to encourage poor behavior in their game and it’s why I am really frustrated over it.

I do agree that they should implement more wvw/pvp achievements with their 2weeks content patch updates as to make it fair but not intertwine them with PVE.

I don’t get where you get this information that WvWers dont like to do the JP, i do it with my friends all the time,

And yeah, this idea that “WvW’ers never do it” is just made up, too. Like I said earlier, by some magic I manage to do it every day without any trouble (Even though Blackgate and Sanctum of Rall are two servers with huge population coverage and like to camp the entrance)

All this stuff about how it’s impossible – even invisible – because there’s magical campers that somehow know you’re there and know when to AE, or can put traps down everywhere 24/7 even though no one is around, and how it takes 2 hours to do, and blah blah…it’s all nonsense.

Dan.2940:

Jemmi.6058:

Dan.2940:

Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…

People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.

Whining about a measly 5 achievement points? You guys know how ridiculous you sound? If you are not about the PvP life, stay out of WvW where zergs are EVERYWHERE. Sure its annoying to be JP griefed, i don’t approve of it, but it’s never going to change so you have to learn to adapt.

There are THOUSANDS of achievements, why would you complain about 1 achievement that’s worth 5 points? You either accept the challenge and ACHIEVE your ACHIEVEMENTS or just sit with thumbs up your butts complaining on the forums.

Just in reference. My complaints are unrelated to the achievement points. I like the jumping puzzle and wish I could actually go do it. However, everytime I go, I get ganked. It’s lame.

I wouldn’t even mind the PvP if it wasn’t designed so horribly. It encourages you to get attacked by a swarm. Perhaps if OS was created instanced with max 5 people per side. Then at least you could have some fair and interesting fights that happen while you are jumping.

As it is now, you go in and are merrily jumping along, and boom 20 guys are right behind you. Enjoy.

Is that fun for anyone? Maybe. I don’t understand why.

I understand your frustration with that, i hate when that happens to me too, but that happened even before the kite was added and is just more frequent to happen now that the kite is there. Getting ganked is part of the JP as much as getting ganked in WvW is part of WvW. Anet developed this JP to be different from the others, to have that PvP aspect to it, if you don’t like it, maybe do other Jump Puzzles? If you wanted everyone to be friendly in a zone where you can attack others, it isn’t going to happen.

Yup, that is what I do. I was also frustrated with this before the last two content patches. I also find it frustrating that you need to do WvW for map completion (although less so, I seem to be OK at hopping in and getting a SP or Vista every now and then).

It just bugs me that they added this JP to WvW with no PvE equivalent. It is easily my favourite in terms of design.

Just a note, I got both the Aetherblade Cache and the Kite at the end of OS for both the last content patches. Not being able to get them is not my concern.

Kitta.3657:

It’s pretty simple: putting a PVE achievement in PVP zone = encouraging GRIEFING

Completely wrong. This instead :

“putting a PVE achievement in PVP zone = maybe it wasn’t a PVE achievement after all but a PVP one?”

stof.9341:

Kitta.3657:

It’s pretty simple: putting a PVE achievement in PVP zone = encouraging GRIEFING

Completely wrong. This instead :

“putting a PVE achievement in PVP zone = maybe it wasn’t a PVE achievement after all but a PVP one?”

How is it PVP when it doesn’t require you to pvp to get it? (if you had to kill a player to get it then that would be a pvp achievement , or put it in Stonemist per example but you really just don’t, you have to go through a Jumping Puzzle.. that ain’t pvp to me)

You think it’s legitimate PVP to spawn-camp? I don’t. Or Even just camp the kite spot (which is not at the end this time)? Players that do that know full well what they are doing and enjoy ruining other people’s fun . It’s griefing and those players are the plea of this community.

Sounds like you are putting your head in the sand here. It’s written “bound to be abused” all over it… I thought Anet was against that…

At least we can agree the way it’s handled (the whole PVE/PVP LS achievements) isn’t clear or well done for both parties here?

Dan.2940:

I don’t get where you get this information that WvWers dont like to do the JP, i do it with my friends all the time, and all we ever do is WvW, with the occasional pve for armor and new events (Like this one).

I never claimed they don’t like JPs. I claimed that for most the JP’s reward was not worth the aggravation to them. If this were not the case it wouldn’t have been dead in the first place.

Dan.2940:

Are you saying there shouldn’t be any PvP achievements then? Because PvErs want to be completionists? I agree that it shouldn’t be tied in with a pve event but PvErs can avoid it, like they avoid the sPvP achievements.

I never once said remove PvP achievements. I said they shouldn’t aim to revitalize a dead PvP area (most notably one that is designed around ganking) by trying to attract PvE players. That they are using an achievement to accomplish this is irrelevant. My point would remain the same regardless what they used as an attraction.

And again, the “pve can avoid it” argument does not change the fact that it’s bad idea.

Dan.2940:

something that isn’t necessarily a bad thing

And that is what’s at the core of our disagreement.
I DEFINITELY think it’s a bad idea.

stof.9341:

Kitta.3657:

It’s pretty simple: putting a PVE achievement in PVP zone = encouraging GRIEFING

Completely wrong. This instead :

“putting a PVE achievement in PVP zone = maybe it wasn’t a PVE achievement after all but a PVP one?”

You put a dungeon in the middle of EB and it’s still a dungeon….

Dedlaw.9130:

Dan.2940:

I don’t get where you get this information that WvWers dont like to do the JP, i do it with my friends all the time, and all we ever do is WvW, with the occasional pve for armor and new events (Like this one).

I never claimed they don’t like JPs. I claimed that for most the JP’s reward was not worth the aggravation to them. If this were not the case it wouldn’t have been dead in the first place.

Dan.2940:

Are you saying there shouldn’t be any PvP achievements then? Because PvErs want to be completionists? I agree that it shouldn’t be tied in with a pve event but PvErs can avoid it, like they avoid the sPvP achievements.

I never once said remove PvP achievements. I said they shouldn’t aim to revitalize a dead PvP area (most notably one that is designed around ganking) by trying to attract PvE players. That they are using an achievement to accomplish this is irrelevant. My point would remain the same regardless what they used as an attraction.

And again, the “pve can avoid it” argument does not change the fact that it’s bad idea.

Dan.2940:

something that isn’t necessarily a bad thing

And that is what’s at the core of our disagreement.
I DEFINITELY think it’s a bad idea.

Ok wait a second, let me try to clarify. PvErs don’t want to do sPvP achievements right? Even though there’s prob 50 achievements there. You were saying how PvErs are “Completionists” and go Gung Ho on getting ALL the achievements right? So why would they avoid 50 sPvP achievements, and flip turkey because they can’t get 1 pve achievement worth 5 points?

Now you’re saying, a lot of people don’t do the JP anymore because the reward is bad, you’re telling me its a problem for you now to do the JP because you want 5 achievement points? If its so much of a problem for you or any PvErs, simply avoid it. There is absolutely no reason to argue on a forum saying its a big deal if you hardly ever went in the JP to begin with.

It seems like this 1 achievement is being blown out of the water. Just because the achievement technically falls under PvE, but by entering WvW and this Jump Puzzle you allow the risk of being attacked by enemies, so wouldn’t that be PvP? Now tell me how that differs from the 50 sPvP achievements that they refuse to get.

How about everyone stop complaining because anet isn’t going to change this so stop QQing about it

I went into EB this morning before work. I saw maybe 5 people. 3 of them on opposing servers. Got it done without anyone greifing. Last night when I tried there was an allout war in that place. Just try doing it at a non peak time if you can, I understand it sucks if you can only play at night(I myself only play at night) but for stuff like this I try to squeeze it in before work.

DaddyBoJangles.6012:

I went into EB this morning before work. I saw maybe 5 people. 3 of them on opposing servers. Got it done without anyone greifing. Last night when I tried there was an allout war in that place. Just try doing it at a non peak time if you can, I understand it sucks if you can only play at night(I myself only play at night) but for stuff like this I try to squeeze it in before work.

“Ugh… you know, there’s two people in this world…
People who will whine and complain until something gets done, and people who actually do something about the situation. People who don’t wait around for the world to mold to their liking.”

You are a living example of what i was talking about. You went and did something about the fact that the zergs usually are active during the afternoon. Oh and would you look at that, you got the achievement. How about more people do this and less complain? Sounds more productive to me.

i managed to do it with ease. same for AR cache.

and im up against Viz and River side (french and german tier 1) and im on desolation.

infact i did it same evening it was added. it was zerg from each server fighting it out. and i meen ZERG so bad culling came into affect at the entrance

As a backstab thief, I love it. Thank you anet!!! So much fun to down someone in dark room, and grab hes/her torch away hahaha.

Dan.2940:

Ok wait a second, let me try to clarify. PvErs don’t want to do sPvP achievements right? Even though there’s prob 50 achievements there. You were saying how PvErs are “Completionists” and go Gung Ho on getting ALL the achievements right? So why would they avoid 50 sPvP achievements, and flip turkey because they can’t get 1 pve achievement worth 5 points?

Now you’re saying, a lot of people don’t do the JP anymore because the reward is bad, you’re telling me its a problem for you now to do the JP because you want 5 achievement points? If its so much of a problem for you or any PvErs, simply avoid it. There is absolutely no reason to argue on a forum saying its a big deal if you hardly ever went in the JP to begin with.

It seems like this 1 achievement is being blown out of the water. Just because the achievement technically falls under PvE, but by entering WvW and this Jump Puzzle you allow the risk of being attacked by enemies, so wouldn’t that be PvP? Now tell me how that differs from the 50 sPvP achievements that they refuse to get.

Logic fail there, Dan. Completionist behaviour in events and living story does not need necessitate behaviour in everything.

I am a completionist when it comes to events and have each one at 100%. I can tell you that getting nearly 0% in my PvP and WvW categories does not phase me at all. But under 100% in an event just won’t fly. It’s how I am, and how I know many others (but not all, of course) are.

Also, you like many others are forgetting one very, very important point.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Bringing in more skilled PvP players is the way to do it. Not bringing in PvE players with PvE builds and gear. Players that are basically free kills to the properly built, geared, and experienced PvP/WvW players. Not genius. Short-sighted.

I’ve gotten this done, but it boggles me that they went ahead with another one of these. Obsidian Sanctum is not a perfectly fine location for a limited time achievement, ArenaNet. If you are on a server, where you as a collective, are not good enough to fend of 1-2 other servers and maintain control over a Keep, you are locked out of even attempting the achievement. How is that ok? Not to forget the fact that WvW players are taking advantage of this to just grief and farm “PvE-players”. Because it’s funny or “easy kills”.

When I went in there to do it, there were two groups of about 20-30 players each, from both of the other servers, camping in specific locations. I have the luxury to call upon good players from my own guild and server, so we grouped up and went in there and killed them. But I am certain not everyone have the option to do that.

You should stop using Obsidian Sanctum, and thus, World vs. World (vs. World) for these limited time achievements. Anywhere else would of course just be like asking for the WvW crowd to get kitten’d off by queues, due to non-WvW players being “forced” to run around in the maps in order to complete an acheivement. The Cliffside achievement was a far better idea.

I wasn’t going to comment, but since the trolls are now literally telling people to shut up about this, I will express my feelings.

I hate the Obsidian Sanctum. It’s a nasty piece of garbage designed to lure players in, only to be griefed and abused. There’s no legitimate PvP there. No balanced game design. It’s not even connected with any significance to WvW. It’s just a horrid little troll-fest.

ANet, if you can’t bring yourselves to get rid of it, at least stop pushing it. There’s a reason people don’t usually go there – it’s a rubbish experience, and one that shows WvW in exactly the wrong light to new-comers.

ITT: Spoiled PvE heroes that have trouble finding the spacebar.

Bovinity.8610:

ITT: Spoiled PvE heroes that have trouble finding the spacebar.

If you really think that the complaint here is that people can’t jump, then I feel sorry for your reading comprehension skills. The exit is >>> that way.

And to all you who say fighting the in the JP isn’t griefing, might I show you this new and wonderful gem?

DevonCarver.5370:

Mad Rasputin.7809:

While I agree with the sentiment that this is WvW and if you don’t want to fight don’t come here, getting their rears handed to them by ‘griefers’ is in no way shape or form going to encourage anyone to stick around and play WvW. Just the opposite I think.

There is definitely some amount of truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that much of what is going on in the JP is griefing, it is more that people unused to WvW are coming into a much deadlier map than they are accustomed to. That is the risk you take.

There we have it. Straight from a WvW dev. They consider much of the behaviour we have discussed in here to be griefing.

And before you point out the risk part, yes, we’re already aware of that risk.

If you really think that the complaint here is that people can’t jump, then I feel sorry for your reading comprehension skills. The exit is >>> that way.

There really isn’t a complaint here other than, “This achievement isn’t being handed to me for free in PvE like every other one, so I’m very upset.”

God forbid an achievement take some effort. I know you PvE guys have been spoiled by having achievement points rained down on you every day for every little thing while people in WvW basically get nada, so I guess I understand why you’re in such shock.

There we have it. Straight from a WvW dev. They consider much of the behaviour we have discussed in here to be griefing.

Um, you just tried to get all snarky on me about “reading comprehension” and then misread what the dev said.

Bovinity.8610:

If you really think that the complaint here is that people can’t jump, then I feel sorry for your reading comprehension skills. The exit is >>> that way.

There really isn’t a complaint here other than, “This achievement isn’t being handed to me for free in PvE like every other one, so I’m very upset.”

God forbid an achievement take some effort. I know you PvE guys have been spoiled by having achievement points rained down on you every day for every little thing while people in WvW basically get nada, so I guess I understand why you’re in such shock.

I’m sorry you think so little of our preferred style of play. You really come off as an elitist with your attitude there. And with how you think we need everything ‘handed to us’.

Yes, WvW achievements give terribad rewards. Yes, they need to get balanced and brought up to par. No, that doesn’t give you the right to demean our play to make you feel better about it.

Bovinity.8610:

There we have it. Straight from a WvW dev. They consider much of the behaviour we have discussed in here to be griefing.

Um, you just tried to get all snarky on me about “reading comprehension” and then misread what the dev said.

Didn’t misread at all.

Yes, WvW achievements give terribad rewards. Yes, they need to get balanced and brought up to par. No, that doesn’t give you the right to demean our play to make you feel better about it.

Hey, you guys opened the door to it with all the terrible, “What if we put an achievement for you in Arah!” stuff, making it seem like there’s some actual equality here and that the OS JP is some awful break in that equality.

Didn’t misread at all.

Yeah, you did. He said the exact opposite of, “We consider much of this to be griefing.”

Bovinity.8610:

Yes, WvW achievements give terribad rewards. Yes, they need to get balanced and brought up to par. No, that doesn’t give you the right to demean our play to make you feel better about it.

Hey, you guys opened the door to it with all the terrible, “What if we put an achievement for you in Arah!” stuff, making it seem like there’s some actual equality here and that the OS JP is some awful break in that equality.

The more I read you posts, the more I am convinced you are a troll. Please go troll elsewhere. Good day, sir.

The more I read you posts, the more I am convinced you are a troll. Please go troll elsewhere. Good day, sir.

“You don’t agree with me so you’re a troll”

Standard issue for any internet message board thread, so I won’t hold it against you.

Bovinity.8610:

The more I read you posts, the more I am convinced you are a troll. Please go troll elsewhere. Good day, sir.

“You don’t agree with me so you’re a troll”

Standard issue for any internet message board thread, so I won’t hold it against you.

I disagree with your opinion but that doesn’t make you a troll. Your attitudes towards others, PvEers especially, and how you discuss your opinions and demean those that don’t agree with you does.

Now let’s let this conversation return to the matter at hand instead of your little irritation with someone calling you out for your ill-behaviour, eh?

If I was irritated, I wouldn’t be continuing our little funtime! =D

Sure, the matter at hand? What is that exactly again? I mean, when I hear a decent argument against the OS JP, I’d be happy to endorse it, but all I’ve heard so far is pouting and foot-stomping because there are a few achievement points tied up somewhere that isn’t a total cakewalk.

The ONLY thing I’ve heard that’s actually an issue is the fact that you can’t even get to the entrance if your side can’t hold the keep. That’s probably not entirely fair, yes.

Everything else is just the result of folks that have been spoiled by being handed piles and piles of achievement points for not doing much and being shocked that one single achievement might be out of their (self-imposed) short reach.

TL;DR: It’s not that hard! Stop telling yourself it is!

SynfulChaot.3169:

DevonCarver.5370:

There is definitely some amount of truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that much of what is going on in the JP is griefing, it is more that people unused to WvW are coming into a much deadlier map than they are accustomed to. That is the risk you take.

There we have it. Straight from a WvW dev. They consider much of the behaviour we have discussed in here to be griefing.

DevonCarver.5370:

There is definitely some amount of truth to that, but I’d hesitate to say that much of what is going on in the JP is griefing, it is more that people unused to WvW are coming into a much deadlier map than they are accustomed to. That is the risk you take.

How does one go from “I’m hesitant to say that much of what is going on is griefing” to “I consider much of the behaviour griefing?”

Bovinity.8610:

If I was irritated, I wouldn’t be continuing our little funtime! =D

Sure, the matter at hand? What is that exactly again? I mean, when I hear a decent argument against the OS JP, I’d be happy to endorse it, but all I’ve heard so far is pouting and foot-stomping because there are a few achievement points tied up somewhere that isn’t a total cakewalk.

The ONLY thing I’ve heard that’s actually an issue is the fact that you can’t even get to the entrance if your side can’t hold the keep. That’s probably not entirely fair, yes.

Everything else is just the result of folks that have been spoiled by being handed piles and piles of achievement points for not doing much and being shocked that one single achievement might be out of their (self-imposed) short reach.

Some people are like that, yes. Not the majority here, though.

I am one of the many that disagree with the kite being here. I am also one who got the cache during Sky Pirates and the kite yesterday. I then spent several hours portalling people up and trying to maintain an uneasy peace/truce to help everyone, even those not of my server, to get it.

Why?

Simple. If this is to get players to try out WvW, then this is the wrong way to go about it. You’re pitting PvE players with PvE builds/gearing and little WvW/PvP experience against WvW/PvP players who have the proper builds, gearing, and experience. This is, in no way, fair or balanced. The PvE oriented players will have little chance to win unless they regear, retrait, and learn the dynamics of WvW/PvP combat. Those PvE players are just ‘free kills’ to experienced folk. Through no fault of their own.

Ursan.7846:

How does one go from “I’m hesitant to say that much of what is going on is griefing” to “I consider much of the behaviour griefing?”

Perhaps I overstated for effect. Thank you for properly calling me on it.

He may be hesitant to say that ‘much’ is. But he is also not stating that none of it is.

Bovinity.8610:

If I was irritated, I wouldn’t be continuing our little funtime! =D

Sure, the matter at hand? What is that exactly again? I mean, when I hear a decent argument against the OS JP, I’d be happy to endorse it, but all I’ve heard so far is pouting and foot-stomping because there are a few achievement points tied up somewhere that isn’t a total cakewalk.

The ONLY thing I’ve heard that’s actually an issue is the fact that you can’t even get to the entrance if your side can’t hold the keep. That’s probably not entirely fair, yes.

Everything else is just the result of folks that have been spoiled by being handed piles and piles of achievement points for not doing much and being shocked that one single achievement might be out of their (self-imposed) short reach.

TL;DR: It’s not that hard! Stop telling yourself it is!

Not sure if you missed my post, or chose to ignore it.

My argument against it has nothing related to achievement points, but is simply related to having a PvE type event caught up in WvW. It’s not really fun to have swarms of people gank you as your trying to make your way through. I don’t see how it can be fun for them either.

What fun is there in PvP by hunting down PvE players who are not built for PvP. It’s free kills, which is stuff being handed to you. I understand you are quite against things being handed to you so freely. So if that is the case, why do you want it there?

It could even be left in PvP if it didn’t support such imbalances. Instead of a swarm, why not cap it at 5 players each. Then you could still have the PvP side of things as you race for the end, but it’d actually be sort of fair.

The reason why this is a PvE achievement, is that it is part of a find all 7 kites, 6 of which are in PvE. Additionally, JP’s are a PvE game type. It is definitely not a WvW game type, as the goal is not to capture anything. Holding the JP does not help out with your WvW standing. The goal of the puzzle is clearly PvE in nature, with open world PvP thrown in.

PvE with open world PvP is not necessarily a bad thing, but the way it is designed here is. I am going to reiterate. Having a swarm/zerg of people come in and kill you as you are trying to do a JP with 1 or 2 other people is not fun – for anybody. It is my understanding that this game revolves around being fun. Therefore, this is a fail.

I think you need to make up your mind. You want achievements which are geared towards WvW content and that is not handed freely.
- This achievement is not geared towards WvW as nothing in it is affected by WvW goals
- The only WvW aspect of it is that it’s PvP, and you can get some easy kills. However, you don’t want things handed to you freely/easily.

I doubt that it’s to try to get people into WvW, it’s just because OS happens to be one of (if not the?) longest and best JP’s in the game. It really is quite nice.

Maybe people could argue for a PvE only version. I dunno. Seems silly, since it’s clear that PvP is baked into the design of the puzzle. (Traps and whatnot) And evading people is part of the challenge.

Plus you can be invisible the entire way! (Sorry, I don’t buy the whole “There’s people standing here 24/7 spamming AE! Invisibility doesn’t work!” thing. That’s just absurd.)

I just feel like a mountain is being made of a molehill here because people simply don’t like WvW or PvP and thus convinced themselves that this is impossible before even giving it a shot.

What fun is there in PvP by hunting down PvE players who are not built for PvP. It’s free kills, which is stuff being handed to you. I understand you are quite against things being handed to you so freely. So if that is the case, why do you want it there?

I couldn’t care less about killing PvE players. Generally I just ignore other people in OS JP anyway because I’m usually trying to beat my own times.

The reason why this is a PvE achievement, is that it is part of a find all 7 kites, 6 of which are in PvE. Additionally, JP’s are a PvE game type. It is definitely not a WvW game type, as the goal is not to capture anything. Holding the JP does not help out with your WvW standing. The goal of the puzzle is clearly PvE in nature, with open world PvP thrown in.

What would be the breakpoint for declaring something “Not a PvE Only” achievement, then? 1 kite in WvW isn’t enough, everyone is still calling it a PvE achievement. What if we put two of them in? Or one in WvW and one in sPvP?

At what point do we just accept that it’s just an achievement, not a “PvE” or “WvW” one?

The only thing I have a problem with is the 5v1 leet groups who roll around thinking they are the kitten. If you duel me 1v1 and beat me ok then I’ll start the puzzle over, but to run a full group and gank unsuspecting loners is kind of cowardly imo.

Bovinity.8610:

What fun is there in PvP by hunting down PvE players who are not built for PvP. It’s free kills, which is stuff being handed to you. I understand you are quite against things being handed to you so freely. So if that is the case, why do you want it there?

I couldn’t care less about killing PvE players. Generally I just ignore other people in OS JP anyway because I’m usually trying to beat my own times.

The reason why this is a PvE achievement, is that it is part of a find all 7 kites, 6 of which are in PvE. Additionally, JP’s are a PvE game type. It is definitely not a WvW game type, as the goal is not to capture anything. Holding the JP does not help out with your WvW standing. The goal of the puzzle is clearly PvE in nature, with open world PvP thrown in.

What would be the breakpoint for declaring something “Not a PvE Only” achievement, then? 1 kite in WvW isn’t enough, everyone is still calling it a PvE achievement. What if we put two of them in? Or one in WvW and one in sPvP?

At what point do we just accept that it’s just an achievement, not a “PvE” or “WvW” one?

Sure that is fair enough. Just imagine a turn around, where you need to get 9 kills.

1x ele
1x mesmer
1x thief
1x warrior
1x guardian
1x engineer
1x necro
1x ranger
1x Lupicus

This is clearly a PvP achievement up until the end.

That aside, it’s not really my point.

My point is that this isn’t fun. I love that JP and want to run it, but am blocked by swarms of opposing players. I don’t understand why they are even there, or why the design of the system encourages it.

I like the idea of making a PvE copy of the same JP.

Bovinity.8610:

Plus you can be invisible the entire way! (Sorry, I don’t buy the whole “There’s people standing here 24/7 spamming AE! Invisibility doesn’t work!” thing. That’s just absurd.)

Unless you have the dark room memorized, you can’t be invisible there. Also it’s quite hard to ascend the colosseum area if there are people raining AoE down upon the one singular path you need to take up. Invis is good before and after. But that section is the most heavily griefed one as you’re pretty much forced out of stealth for it. And the griefers know it.

Bovinity.8610:

I just feel like a mountain is being made of a molehill here because people simply don’t like WvW or PvP and thus convinced themselves that this is impossible before even giving it a shot.

No. Most here have gotten it. We’re just arguing against the fact that it’s there.

Bovinity.8610:

What fun is there in PvP by hunting down PvE players who are not built for PvP. It’s free kills, which is stuff being handed to you. I understand you are quite against things being handed to you so freely. So if that is the case, why do you want it there?

I couldn’t care less about killing PvE players. Generally I just ignore other people in OS JP anyway because I’m usually trying to beat my own times.

Then that makes you not the kind of player we are referring to. We’re referring to the players that explicitly camp in a few locations to kill all who approach with the full knowledge that many will be inexperienced and won’t be a challenge to them. I’ve heard these players call the PvEers ‘free badges’. Now if that’s not bad for the community as a whole, then I really don’t know what is.