Guild Wars 2

Tried it for the first time today. Hated it. This is not PVP. This is pure abuse simple as that. When you have groups basically camping specific choke points like the well and such, there is nothing you can do. They just AOE everything and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
If you are dueling there fine, but to grief, and yes it is griefing, those that do not fight back and just want to complete the puzzle and get out.
It would not be as much of an issue if the puzzle was build better for this, but it simply is build for those that want to gank and grief.
I like WvW but this is totally kitten.

There are some servers where there are no off hours, in my case, Jade Quarry has made a full time job of camping Jumping Puzzle , they literally went from top server to losing when the split happened because it was diverting so many of their players. As far as I know, there is no way to be stealthed and use a torch or alternate light source. I can get there regardless of the camping usually, but you can’t go further. Best bet for me is to wait for the reset and get in fast, I can outpace 99.5% of the players that go there but there are certain points I can’t get through when camped efficiently.

Mister Stygian.2135:

There are some servers where there are no off hours, in my case, Jade Quarry has made a full time job of camping Jumping Puzzle , they literally went from top server to losing when the split happened because it was diverting so many of their players. As far as I know, there is no way to be stealthed and use a torch or alternate light source. I can get there regardless of the camping usually, but you can’t go further. Best bet for me is to wait for the reset and get in fast, I can outpace 99.5% of the players that go there but there are certain points I can’t get through when camped efficiently.

Interesting, I am on JQ and am having the exact opposite problem! Everytime I go there is a swarm of Blackgate and/or Sanctum waiting to destroy me.

Yesterday, it appeared both Sanctum and Blackgate allied up to kill the JQ people at the end of the JP though.

Sardonia.8196:

Tried it for the first time today. Hated it. This is not PVP. This is pure abuse simple as that. When you have groups basically camping specific choke points like the well and such, there is nothing you can do. They just AOE everything and there is nothing you can do to stop it.
If you are dueling there fine, but to grief, and yes it is griefing, those that do not fight back and just want to complete the puzzle and get out.
It would not be as much of an issue if the puzzle was build better for this, but it simply is build for those that want to gank and grief.
I like WvW but this is totally kitten.

you took the words out of my mouth

Heaven forbid the WvW players get anything.

I really don’t understand this mentality that people are showing lately. “If I can’t get it myself for any reason, it shouldn’t exist.”

Veltoss.9135:

Heaven forbid the WvW players get anything.

About the only thing WvW about Obsidian Sanctum is that it rewards badges. As someone who does WvW often, I hate that this puzzle is pvp. Why? Because I don’t like fighting players who aren’t interested in fighting me— and there are an awful lot of those in Obsidian Sanctum.

lol @ this thread

Veltoss.9135:

Heaven forbid the WvW players get anything.

I really don’t understand this mentality that people are showing lately. “If I can’t get it myself for any reason, it shouldn’t exist.”

No. We’re not saying it shouldn’t exist. We’re saying it’s placement was ill-advised due to the crowd it will attract. And most of us that are speaking against its placement have it already. So no, it’s not how you state it.

If people want to fight each other, they should do it all after the kite. Cuz between the kite and the chest is plenty more places to fight and if you’re going for the chest you are going for WvW specific rewards.

Obisdian Sactum sucks because of the potential of enemy players. THAT is why I hate that they are putting LS stuff in it…worse yet twice in a row. Its not so bad for the dominant server, but if that server wants to run the other 2’s time, they easily can. I got lucky during Aetherblades. The whole JP was filled with Gate of Madness people, but most of them let me go through, some even partied me and helped. But one guy kept knocing me off with range attacks. Had others also wanted to, I would have never gotten through. Either OS needs to be non pvp, or they need to not put LS content in it.

DevonCarver.5370:

It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Griefing-WvW-JPs/page/2#post2386708

wads.5730:

DevonCarver.5370:

It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/wuv/wuv/Griefing-WvW-JPs/page/2#post2386708

It’s not required for the overall meta-achiev. True. It is still required, however, for the kite meta-achiev.

SynfulChaot.3169:

It’s not required for the overall meta-achiev. True. It is still required, however, for the kite meta-achiev.

You miss the point of his comment then. They made it not required for the event meta because the event meta actually has a tangible reward. The kite meta-achieve doesn’t have any, just more achievement points. That is what he’s essentially saying.

Ursan.7846:

SynfulChaot.3169:

It’s not required for the overall meta-achiev. True. It is still required, however, for the kite meta-achiev.

You miss the point of his comment then. They made it not required for the event meta because the event meta actually has a tangible reward. The kite meta-achieve doesn’t have any, just more achievement points. That is what he’s essentially saying.

No. I get that point. But not all do achieves only for the tangible reward. Many players do it for completion sake. And those players are the ones talking here. It’s not up to ANet or you or anyone else to dictate to me and others the reasons we should be playing and how we should be playing.

I don’t understand why people feel like they’re entitled to WvW achievements. It’s ONE achievement that they put in for WvW players, you don’t need it for the meta achievement. If you don’t like it don’t do it. It’s a PvP zone, stop complaining about getting “camped” and killed or just don’t do it.

EDIT: If you are on Dragonbrand message me in-game and I’ll show you how to get the kite.

Here are some tips guys, it’s not that complicated. I do Obsidian Sanctum every day for badges. Sometimes I get killed by other players but it’s not a big problem.

1. Ask for a mesmer to drop a portal. I don’t use portals in JPs but if you can’t be bothered to learn how to do the puzzle just press F.

2. Go with other people and especially those who are experienced with it. You’re unlikely to get attacked by individuals if you have allies. A player who knows the puzzle can finish it in about 10 minutes, you won’t finish it in 10 your first time but it’s significantly easier with help.

3. Use friendly emotes like /bow /kneel /wave /salute near enemy players. If you see a griefer use @ emotes like /bow @ at the griefer, it helps. You can’t use /me emotes, /me only shows up as “player1234 gestures” for enemies in WvW.

4. Use the fountains. They give 5 minutes of stealth and disable all your skills. There are a few caveats, first you cannot use stealth in the torch room, the chandelier room, and the dome following the chandelier room. Also, taking damage from an enemy (not falling damage) will remove the stealth given by the fountain.

5. Use a speed boost and run around like you have a purpose. When enemy players see you minding your own business and working hard to finish the puzzle they usually leave you alone.

6. Come back at a later time, sometimes things get heated in WvW and the players get sore so they decide to grief. Try again in a few hours, or during off-peak hours when there isn’t a queue in your server.

I got a feeling I am going to have to skip this live story again…

BBMouse.6510:

I got a feeling I am going to have to skip this live story again…

Depends. If you can find people willing to help on your server, it shouldn’t be too terrible. Find people willing to drop portals. On my server (TC), it usually happens at least once a day.

Sukor.1236:

I don’t understand why people feel like they’re entitled to WvW achievements. It’s ONE achievement that they put in for WvW players, you don’t need it for the meta achievement. If you don’t like it don’t do it. It’s a PvP zone, stop complaining about getting “camped” and killed or just don’t do it.

If it was meant for ONLY WvW players, then they should have put this achievement under the WvW Achievement Tab, but they didn’t. It is listed under the new content, making it more PvE based.

Like many of the other players here, I too am very frustrated at them placing a Kite here. I was doing the rest of the kites fine( The Fractal kite was a new twist but surely not impossible to obtain) but it seems I won’t be able to get all of them now..

Thankfully, it looks like I can get the meta-achievement for this content without doing the OS puzzle. I’m not positive what demographic ANet is trying to appeal to here, but I’m certainly not in it. One of the biggest draws for me about GW2 was a separation between PvE and PvP. While ANet seems to consider WvW to be a combination of both, that has not been my experience. I’ve been killed quite a few times in WvW, and a mob was never the cause.

Dan.2940:

Just thought i would also add, don’t you think your thinking is a bit linear for a jumping puzzle? You assume i can’t condi cleanse, restealth, shadowstep, shadow refuge, roll for intiative, withdraw if i was caught by a trap?

There are several places where you literally can’t. There’s no way that stealth will allow you to get up a defended arena, for example. Not if the opponents are paying even a sliver of attention to the game.

BBMouse.6510:

I got a feeling I am going to have to skip this live story again…

Depends on a server and time. When i was there we managed to organize a whole portal chain to get people to the kite, that was operating for quite a while until eventually we got shut down by a bigger zerg. At the high point we had 5 mesmers putting up portals almost constantly. I’m certain that such “events” are organized in most servers out there. Check every now and then, perhaps you will happen upon some helpful mesmers.
If you won’t have such luck, try to go early in the morning, when there are not so many people inside. Go on a mesmer if you can manage it (barring that, thief is also good, due to stealth). Get as much friends to come with you as possible (avoid going in alone uless there’s really no other choice). If it’s possible, ask them to go as mesmers as well (being able to pull someone up after a messed up jump will speed up the puzzle considerably. Mass invis and other stealth skills are a bonus as well). Again, thieves make a decent backup. Teleportation gun may help as well.
The puzzle is definitely doable. Doesn’t make the situation any less irritating, though.

Dedlaw.9130:

That’s like removing arrow cart blueprints and only making them available by doing Arah path 4. Wrong target audience

That’s a wonderful idea! This will definitely help to bridge the two communities! It should be implemented at once! And better yet, don’t stop at arow carts but do that with every siege engine blueprints.

ArenaNet never learns the lessons

You CANNOT put achievements (2) in a kittening WvW JP full of griefers and/or zergs that will make it impossible to even get down from the spawn.
You have either to wait till late night (and hope your faction holds a keep) or be kittened.

You don’t need to go to the end. Only 90% :P
Also: I don’t like the fractals… and I heard the fractal is not one of the easier ones for a random just do to the 1st time?

Shar.3402:

ArenaNet never learns the lessons

You CANNOT put achievements (2) in a kittening WvW JP full of griefers and/or zergs that will make it impossible to even get down from the spawn.
You have either to wait till late night (and hope your faction holds a keep) or be kittened.

It’s not necessarily that they don’t learn. I still hold that they didn’t have enough time to properly redesign the placement of that kite. I prefer that to thinking of them as completely ignorant of what goes on in the JP.

Now if they do it a third time, then I’ll be forced to agree. And I will be saddened.

Luthan.5236:

You don’t need to go to the end. Only 90% :P
Also: I don’t like the fractals… and I heard the fractal is not one of the easier ones for a random just do to the 1st time?

Oh, that one is easy, because the kite is in the early part of the fractals. You don’t even need to be able to finish it.

SynfulChaot.3169:

It’s not necessarily that they don’t learn. I still hold that they didn’t have enough time to properly redesign the placement of that kite. I prefer that to thinking of them as completely ignorant of what goes on in the JP.

Dev statements seem to suggest that they not only do know what’s going on, but that they approve.
I honestly do not understand this.

Luthan.5236:

You don’t need to go to the end. Only 90% :P
Also: I don’t like the fractals… and I heard the fractal is not one of the easier ones for a random just do to the 1st time?

Cliffside is one of the easiest Fractals. And my personal favorite. Most random groups should have little issue.

Now the swamp fractal for first-timers … *shudders*

Astralporing.1957:

SynfulChaot.3169:

It’s not necessarily that they don’t learn. I still hold that they didn’t have enough time to properly redesign the placement of that kite. I prefer that to thinking of them as completely ignorant of what goes on in the JP.

Dev statements seem to suggest that they not only do know what’s going on, but that they approve.

I like to think that that statement was said independently by one of the WvW guys and not the Living Story team.

But if they do it a third time then I’ll be forced to agree that the don’t know what they’re doing.

I’m not sure about Anet’s thinking here.

You put PvE achievements and legendary pre-reqs into WvW to make people try this area, but you reward hundreds of badges of honor for getting to a certain achievement level so they WON’T have to go to the WvW jumping puzzle.

SynfulChaot.3169:

I like to think that that statement was said independently by one of the WvW guys and not the Living Story team.

But if they do it a third time then I’ll be forced to agree that the don’t know what they’re doing.

They know perfectly well what they are doing. They have that map, completely unique in itself since it’s a pure PvP roaming map at the core, they need to put rewards inside to attract people and make use of it but not something too rewarding so that you don’t really need it.

So they put something desirable but optional in it, say, and achievement. And it works, there’s life in the map at last and it’s some fun PvP and it’s still optional.

And there’s still some QQ but they know it’d happen. See, their desires are at odds with the OCD PvP haters in there. No matter what desirable thing they put inside, some OCD PvP hater will want it and will QQ. The only solution for that QQ problem is to not put anything of value inside at all, ie abandoning the map and the concept. They might as well close the place in fact.

stof.9341:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I like to think that that statement was said independently by one of the WvW guys and not the Living Story team.

But if they do it a third time then I’ll be forced to agree that the don’t know what they’re doing.

They know perfectly well what they are doing. They have that map, completely unique in itself since it’s a pure PvP roaming map at the core, they need to put rewards inside to attract people and make use of it but not something too rewarding so that you don’t really need it.

So they put something desirable but optional in it, say, and achievement. And it works, there’s life in the map at last and it’s some fun PvP and it’s still optional.

And there’s still some QQ but they know it’d happen. See, their desires are at odds with the OCD PvP haters in there. No matter what desirable thing they put inside, some OCD PvP hater will want it and will QQ. The only solution for that QQ problem is to not put anything of value inside at all, ie abandoning the map and the concept. They might as well close the place in fact.

Here’s the problem. The people that are drawn in there with the rewards they are offering are, for the most part, the kind of player that does not care for PvP.

That causes a bunch of people to join in the map for the achievement. Unfortunately, they don’t have the WvW/PvP experience or builds. So most of them are just fodder for the experienced WvWers. Most good WvW players realize this and let them past. The other ones take advantage of the situation for ‘free kills’ and basically make those players lose any future interest in touching WvW again.

If the intent is to get more people interested, it has failed. If the intent is to provide ‘free badges’ to WvW players, then I’ve lost all respect for a company which I have championed since GW1 was in beta.

And don’t confuse the completionists with ‘PvP haters’. Some are both, yes. Some just don’t care for PvP. That isn’t hate. It’s just aversion.

Also, not all complaining is QQing. And to state that it is is just plain insulting.

SynfulChaot.3169:

stof.9341:

SynfulChaot.3169:

I like to think that that statement was said independently by one of the WvW guys and not the Living Story team.

But if they do it a third time then I’ll be forced to agree that the don’t know what they’re doing.

They know perfectly well what they are doing. They have that map, completely unique in itself since it’s a pure PvP roaming map at the core, they need to put rewards inside to attract people and make use of it but not something too rewarding so that you don’t really need it.

So they put something desirable but optional in it, say, and achievement. And it works, there’s life in the map at last and it’s some fun PvP and it’s still optional.

And there’s still some QQ but they know it’d happen. See, their desires are at odds with the OCD PvP haters in there. No matter what desirable thing they put inside, some OCD PvP hater will want it and will QQ. The only solution for that QQ problem is to not put anything of value inside at all, ie abandoning the map and the concept. They might as well close the place in fact.

Here’s the problem. The people that are drawn in there with the rewards they are offering are, for the most part, the kind of player that does not care for PvP.

That causes a bunch of people to join in the map for the achievement. Unfortunately, they don’t have the WvW/PvP experience or builds. So most of them are just fodder for the experienced WvWers. Most good WvW players realize this and let them past. The other ones take advantage of the situation for ‘free kills’ and basically make those players lose any future interest in touching WvW again.

If the intent is to get more people interested, it has failed. If the intent is to provide ‘free badges’ to WvW players, then I’ve lost all respect for a company which I have championed since GW1 was in beta.

And don’t confuse the completionists with ‘PvP haters’. Some are both, yes. Some just don’t care for PvP. That isn’t hate. It’s just aversion.

Also, not all complaining is QQing. And to state that it is is just plain insulting.

you’re not entitled to get all the achievements. classic gamer entitlement. if you want the achievement in the puzzle, you either learn how to pvp, get friends to carry you through it. or leave and come back later when its empty.

just because someone hates pvp/wvw doesn’t mean they should be allowed to get a pvp/wvw achievement for free.

if you loathe pvp so much, then you just have to live with the fact that you will never get this particular achievement.

stof.9341:

They know perfectly well what they are doing. They have that map, completely unique in itself since it’s a pure PvP roaming map at the core, they need to put rewards inside to attract people and make use of it but not something too rewarding so that you don’t really need it.

The rewards should be tailored then for the WvW part of the game, not for the PvE one.

stof.9341:

So they put something desirable but optional in it, say, and achievement. And it works, there’s life in the map at last and it’s some fun PvP and it’s still optional.

“Fun” PvP is only being had by the campers in there. Not by people that got there drawn by Anet’s bait. And once living story ends, not only all that people will leave the map, but they will do that in order to never return. Because, due to Anet’s genius, that map for them will be tied only to negative memories.

In short, this doesn’t actually change anything for WvW longterm, it doesn’t draw any new players to WvW, it makes some players who might have otherwise eventually make their way ino WvW lose their interest completely, and makes a large part of the PvE community hate PvP-ers. Which results in a net loss.

The only solution for that QQ problem is to not put anything of value inside at all, ie abandoning the map and the concept. They might as well close the place in fact.

No, the only solution is to aim the rewards at the WvW community, not at the PvE one.
In fact, they could have made a whole tab of Sanctum JP-specific PvP achievements. They didn’t. They decided to tie that one to both the living story, and to the kite finding meta where all other achievements are purely PvE.

This is exactly like one of the examples given somewhere above – getting some WvW element, and putting it behind a PvE one (in the mentioned case hiding all normal arrow cart blueprints behind Arah explorable). If Anet decided to do something like that, whole WvW community would have been out for their blood.

A bad design, plain and simple. Even if some griefers like it.

Hey here’s another cool one for the WvW players.

6 out of the 7 kites are in PvE content. One of em is even inside a bloody Fractal of the Mist.

So i need to get a group of people to spam Fractals, hoping to get the one i need. But you people are kittening that you might need a group to get the WvW kite. Or, there might be a Mesmer in the JP and you pick it up in mere minutes.

You poor things…

Jemmi.6058:

Interesting, I am on JQ and am having the exact opposite problem! Everytime I go there is a swarm of Blackgate and/or Sanctum waiting to destroy me.

Yesterday, it appeared both Sanctum and Blackgate allied up to kill the JQ people at the end of the JP though.

Both SoR and BG teaming up because YOUR server was griefing ALL non JQ players right at the very end of the jp and kite area. that is why SoR and BG teaming up to attack your server. i was there, i died 5 times thx to your server before i can finally get the achievement. you reap what you sow.

wads.5730:

you’re not entitled to get all the achievements. classic gamer entitlement. if you want the achievement in the puzzle, you either learn how to pvp, get friends to carry you through it. or leave and come back later when its empty.

just because someone hates pvp/wvw doesn’t mean they should be allowed to get a pvp/wvw achievement for free.

if you loathe pvp so much, then you just have to live with the fact that you will never get this particular achievement.

*sigh*

You realize that I have it and have helped many others get it, right? Like I’ve only stated many times in this thread already.

And I don’t hate PvP and WvW. Just its incredibly hostile community.

SynfulChaot.3169:

wads.5730:

you’re not entitled to get all the achievements. classic gamer entitlement. if you want the achievement in the puzzle, you either learn how to pvp, get friends to carry you through it. or leave and come back later when its empty.

just because someone hates pvp/wvw doesn’t mean they should be allowed to get a pvp/wvw achievement for free.

if you loathe pvp so much, then you just have to live with the fact that you will never get this particular achievement.

*sigh*

You realize that I have it and have helped many others get it, right? Like I’ve only stated many times in this thread already.

And I don’t hate PvP and WvW. Just its incredibly hostile community.

i wasn’t singling you out or anything, i was speaking in general to all those that feel they shouldn’t have to pvp to get some arbitrary achievement in a pvp zone.

plus it’s a hostile community because it’s based on your characters killing other characters. pvp is competitive by nature, its a competitive environment, it wouldn’t be fun without hostility.

“It is absolutely intended that you can fight people in the JP. The fact that so many people are piling into the map to get the achievement is good for any and all of you who are capable of laying the smack down on them, and, if they manage to fight back is hopefully going to encourage some of them to stick around and play WvW. If you don’t want to get killed by other players, don’t play WvW. Plain and simple. The achievement isn’t required for getting the meta-achievement on purpose.”
~ Devon Carter (Arenanet Dev)

Uhm, do i even have to say anything? For you whining completionists, have fun with your 99%. See how far your whining got you?

Meanwhile i finished the JP 2 nights in a row, there was only a zerg on the first night. Guess it’s impossible to finish the JP though, right?

wads.5730:

i wasn’t singling you out or anything, i was speaking in general to all those that feel they shouldn’t have to pvp to get some arbitrary achievement in a pvp zone.

The problem they are noting is that the placement of the kite is arbitrary. It’s not that they have to PvP in a PvP zone. It’s that ANet put it in a PvP zone in the first place.

wads.5730:

plus it’s a hostile community because it’s based on your characters killing other characters. pvp is competitive by nature, its a competitive environment, it wouldn’t be fun without hostility.

Not true. Just because you need to play against other players does not mean you need to act harshly towards them. That is a common fault among many PvP players. That is the biggest reason I dislike PvP and do little WvW. It’s the community that makes me avoid it. I prefer speaking with and interacting with those that know how to be polite and who know what is and is not appropriate.

Dan.2940:

Uhm, do i even have to say anything? For you whining completionists, have fun with your 99%. See how far your whining got you?

Meanwhile i finished the JP 2 nights in a row, there was only a zerg on the first night. Guess it’s impossible to finish the JP though, right?

Good to see another polite member of the WvW community. /sarcasm

Not true. Just because you need to play against other players does not mean you need to act harshly towards them. That is a common fault among many PvP players. That is the biggest reason I dislike PvP and do little WvW. It’s the community that makes me avoid it. I prefer speaking with and interacting with those that know how to be polite and who know what is and is not appropriate.

by acting harshly, you mean killing them? what do you interpret as acting harsh? you’re not supposed to be able to communicate with enemies in any way, they can’t trash talk, the worst and only thing they can do is to kill you.

do you even know what you’re saying? killing other people is put in this game by design.

wads.5730:

Not true. Just because you need to play against other players does not mean you need to act harshly towards them. That is a common fault among many PvP players. That is the biggest reason I dislike PvP and do little WvW. It’s the community that makes me avoid it. I prefer speaking with and interacting with those that know how to be polite and who know what is and is not appropriate.

by acting harshly, you mean killing them? what do you interpret as acting harsh? you’re not supposed to be able to communicate with enemies in any way, they can’t trash talk, the worst and only thing they can do is to kill you.

do you even know what you’re saying? killing other people is put in this game by design.

I’m referring to how you are acting towards other people in the community in an out-of-game fashion. The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Here’s an idea Anet should remember for next time. If you’re going to set something Living Story related down in OS, do it AT THE ENTRANCE! That way everybody can get it without being ganked all the time.

RyuDragnier.9476:

Here’s an idea Anet should remember for next time. If you’re going to set something Living Story related down in OS, do it AT THE ENTRANCE! That way everybody can get it without being ganked all the time.

Oh, so you want it so that you can enter the JP, get your achievement right away and never return to that disgusting place?

Well then i want to get 100% map completion for only completing 50% of the map.

I’ve done the achievement twice now, unless you are bad at JP’s you should not have a problem making it to the end. The zergs pretty much died off since the first day, and if not? Come at a different time or bring your own zerg or sneak past them….. I don’t understand why some of you want to be spoon fed in a MMO.

The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Yeah, sometimes we do get offensive. Partially because of stuff like this. PvP/WvW players are already used to having to PvE if they want to get any achievements or keep a decent cash flow, or see any content. But we generally don’t throw a tantrum about it. It’s just how things are.

You PvE guys get ONE achievement tucked away in OS JP and it spawns stuff like this where you’re acting like ANet came to your house and kicked your dog. In some ways, seeing that as PvP/WvW player, it’s a bit annoying.

It’s like being a starving third-world kid and seeing some fat American start a war over there only being 19 nuggets in their 20 piece McNugget box. =D

Bovinity.8610:

The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Yeah, sometimes we do get offensive. Partially because of stuff like this. PvP/WvW players are already used to having to PvE if they want to get any achievements or keep a decent cash flow, or see any content. But we generally don’t throw a tantrum about it. It’s just how things are.

You PvE guys get ONE achievement tucked away in OS JP and it spawns stuff like this where you’re acting like ANet came to your house and kicked your dog. In some ways, seeing that as PvP/WvW player, it’s a bit annoying.

It’s like being a starving third-world kid and seeing some fat American start a war over there only being 19 nuggets in their 20 piece McNugget box. =D

This guy, i like this guy.

Dan.2940:

Oh, so you want it so that you can enter the JP, get your achievement right away and never return to that disgusting place?

No. We don’t want to enter it in the first place. I don’t see why you haven’t figured that out by now.

Dan.2940:

Well then i want to get 100% map completion for only completing 50% of the map.

Reductio ad absurdum. You may want to avoid logical fallacies if you want to make a decent point.

Dan.2940:

I’ve done the achievement twice now, unless you are bad at JP’s you should not have a problem making it to the end. The zergs pretty much died off since the first day, and if not? Come at a different time or bring your own zerg or sneak past them….. I don’t understand why some of you want to be spoon fed in a MMO.

The puzzle itself is fun. The zergs are not a problem either. It’s the camper groups that just sit at known chokepoints and kill all that pass. Groups that are drawn there as they know that PvE players will be there and they want ‘free kills’. If those groups weren’t so prevalent and persistant then these discussions would have died off long ago.

That isn’t wanting to be spoon-fed, and alluding that we do is quite insulting.

Bovinity.8610:

The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Yeah, sometimes we do get offensive. Partially because of stuff like this. PvP/WvW players are already used to having to PvE if they want to get any achievements or keep a decent cash flow, or see any content. But we generally don’t throw a tantrum about it. It’s just how things are.

Hmm. So having well thought out complaints is throwing a tantrum now? Or is that only because we disagree with you? Don’t answer that. We already know the answer.

Note that all the harsh and hostile voices have been from the WvW community. That’s not just a coincidence.

Bovinity.8610:

You PvE guys get ONE achievement tucked away in OS JP

Sorry to be nitpicky here, but this is the third achievement down there.
Another three in the other three jumping puzzles.
Plus various waypoints and POIs that took some of us months to complete.

A lot of players have put in significant effort already getting map completion as well as the “normal” achievement at the end of all the “sanctum” jumping puzzles, and left there knowing that they were DONE. Not interested in WvW; never again to return.

Until…

So, I think that makes a little bit of a difference, too.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Dan.2940:

Oh, so you want it so that you can enter the JP, get your achievement right away and never return to that disgusting place?

No. We don’t want to enter it in the first place. I don’t see why you haven’t figured that out by now.

Dan.2940:

Well then i want to get 100% map completion for only completing 50% of the map.

Reductio ad absurdum. You may want to avoid logical fallacies if you want to make a decent point.

Dan.2940:

I’ve done the achievement twice now, unless you are bad at JP’s you should not have a problem making it to the end. The zergs pretty much died off since the first day, and if not? Come at a different time or bring your own zerg or sneak past them….. I don’t understand why some of you want to be spoon fed in a MMO.

The puzzle itself is fun. The zergs are not a problem either. It’s the camper groups that just sit at known chokepoints and kill all that pass. Groups that are drawn there as they know that PvE players will be there and they want ‘free kills’. If those groups weren’t so prevalent and persistant then these discussions would have died off long ago.

That isn’t wanting to be spoon-fed, and alluding that we do is quite insulting.

Bovinity.8610:

The PvP/WvW community is far more hostile towards others in forums among other places. Especially towards PvE players.

Yeah, sometimes we do get offensive. Partially because of stuff like this. PvP/WvW players are already used to having to PvE if they want to get any achievements or keep a decent cash flow, or see any content. But we generally don’t throw a tantrum about it. It’s just how things are.

Hmm. So having well thought out complaints is throwing a tantrum now? Or is that only because we disagree with you? Don’t answer that. We already know the answer.

Note that all the harsh and hostile voices have been from the WvW community. That’s not just a coincidence.

Yes, taking people sentences out of context does tend to make their logic sound “flawed”. I was relating what you guys are asking arenanet to do to something that is completely insane, because guess what? What you’re asking them to do is insane. The achievement being placed there may not have been a smart idea, but whining does nothing right? Unless you actually want them to remove the achievement now? In which case you’re being selfish to everyone who got the achievement and earned those 5 points. You just want 100% completion for your own personal NEEDS. Once again, its NOT required.

All this time you’re wasting on the forums complaining, is more time you could have spent trying to get the achievement, because i am 99% sure Arena net will not remove it. Your logic is impeccable.

Hmm. So having well thought out complaints is throwing a tantrum now? Or is that only because we disagree with you? Don’t answer that. We already know the answer.

Several threads full of people saying that they feel like quitting now, that ANet is so terrible for forcing them to do something, that this is just impossible and they’re just not gonna do Bazaar at all now…yeah, there’s some tantrums being thrown. You’re not doing it, but it’s being done. =D

Note that all the harsh and hostile voices have been from the WvW community. That’s not just a coincidence.

Really, most of the “hostile” voices have really just been saying, “For the love of Pete, stop whining so much.”

Sorry to be nitpicky here, but this is the third achievement down there.
Another three in the other three jumping puzzles.
Plus various waypoints and POIs that took some of us months to complete.

Well, I meant in the context of this particular event. But yeah, there have been others. It’s just part of ANet’s philosophy to have things spread out across different content types.

Sadly, the spread isn’t very even, which has made WvW players feel a little left out, and has given rise to this idea that somehow everything is a “PvE achivement” and is the property of PvEers.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Bovinity.8610:

You PvE guys get ONE achievement tucked away in OS JP

Sorry to be nitpicky here, but this is the third achievement down there.
Another three in the other three jumping puzzles.
Plus various waypoints and POIs that took some of us months to complete.

A lot of players have put in significant effort already getting map completion as well as the “normal” achievement at the end of all the “sanctum” jumping puzzles, and left there knowing that they were DONE. Not interested in WvW; never again to return.

Until…

So, I think that makes a little bit of a difference, too.

You’re right, the time to get 3 achievements = the amount of dungeon time in PvE it took me to get my full armor and weapon sets. Then Guild missions for ascended gear, and fractals so i could get a cool weapon skin, and dragon bash so i could get shattered dragon wings, ETC.

I don’t agree with arenanet putting achievements in WvW, especially ones that require you to own a castle, or tower, but you PvErs decide to actually complain about it, while WvWers keep their mouths shut about being forced to do PvE content if they want anything worthwhile.

Dan.2940:

Yes, taking people sentences out of context does tend to make their logic sound “flawed”. I was relating what you guys are asking arenanet to do to something that is completely insane, because guess what? What you’re asking them to do is insane. The achievement being placed there may not have been a smart idea, but whining does nothing right? Unless you actually want them to remove the achievement now? In which case you’re being selfish to everyone who got the achievement and earned those 5 points. You just want 100% completion for your own personal NEEDS. Once again, its NOT required.

All this time you’re wasting on the forums complaining, is more time you could have spent trying to get the achievement, because i am 99% sure Arena net will not remove it. Your logic is impeccable.

*sigh* Again. I have the achievement. I got it day one and then portalled people for two hours while helping maintain a three-server wide truce.

We’re not asking them to remove it. That is just a bad idea at this juncture. We’re politely requesting that they don’t put an objective like that in there again.

And please don’t bring up the tired old ‘but it’s not required’ thing again. Technically nothing we do in-game is required. So that invalidates any argument along those lines.

Bovinity.8610:

Sorry to be nitpicky here, but this is the third achievement down there.
Another three in the other three jumping puzzles.
Plus various waypoints and POIs that took some of us months to complete.

Well, I meant in the context of this particular event. But yeah, there have been others. It’s just part of ANet’s philosophy to have things spread out across different content types.

Sadly, the spread isn’t very even, which has made WvW players feel a little left out, and has given rise to this idea that somehow everything is a “PvE achivement” and is the property of PvEers.

You’re right. The spread isn’t. WvW and PvP achievement sections need serious revamp. But irritation at that should not feed over onto PvE players. That’s just not cool.

Dan.2940:

I don’t agree with arenanet putting achievements in WvW, especially ones that require you to own a castle, or tower, but you PvErs decide to actually complain about it, while WvWers keep their mouths shut about being forced to do PvE content if they want anything worthwhile.

So you agree that it should not be there either. Cool.

And WvWers don’t keep their mouths shut about it. They bring it up each and every time a PvE player ever mentions not wanting to engage in WvW.

SynfulChaot.3169:

Dan.2940:

Yes, taking people sentences out of context does tend to make their logic sound “flawed”. I was relating what you guys are asking arenanet to do to something that is completely insane, because guess what? What you’re asking them to do is insane. The achievement being placed there may not have been a smart idea, but whining does nothing right? Unless you actually want them to remove the achievement now? In which case you’re being selfish to everyone who got the achievement and earned those 5 points. You just want 100% completion for your own personal NEEDS. Once again, its NOT required.

All this time you’re wasting on the forums complaining, is more time you could have spent trying to get the achievement, because i am 99% sure Arena net will not remove it. Your logic is impeccable.

*sigh* Again. I have the achievement. I got it day one and then portalled people for two hours while helping maintain a three-server wide truce.

We’re not asking them to remove it. That is just a bad idea at this juncture. We’re politely requesting that they don’t put an objective like that in there again.

And please don’t bring up the tired old ‘but it’s not _required_’ thing again. Technically nothing we do in-game is required. So that invalidates any argument along those lines.

Oh really? So you got it the first day with those zergs being a big problem? That’s odd…. Think it took me 2-3 days in PvE to get my full armor and weapon sets. Oh, and did i mention that the only way to get the cool items from the new events is to do PvE content? Guess i should let Arena net know to make it so they can change what they have been doing since start-up and make it so you can get those cool items by doing PvP.

EDIT
“And WvWers don’t keep their mouths shut about it. They bring it up each and every time a PvE player ever mentions not wanting to engage in WvW.”

What i meant was, we don’t make forum posts complaining about it. I’ve seen at least 10 posts about this achievement being a problem. Our thinking is, if you can make an arugment saying that you don’t want to touch WvW/PvP content, we don’t want to touch PvE content either. Should it not work both ways?