These stories are not fantasy at all

These stories are not fantasy at all

in Bazaar of the Four Winds

Posted by: Thobek.1730

Thobek.1730

First of all let me say Bazaar of the four winds is a beautiful fantasy setting, my god when I first turned up and made my way to the top it was amazing. The floating ship was so beautifully put together, even the sounds of grinding wood and wind really made it feel like you were so high up. Such nice work on the visuals and setting, now the bad part…

The story is so weak. WEAK! southsun was boring, dealing with disgruntled employee’s contracts. Contracts?! really sounds like a typical day at work.

Aetherblade was great, starts of with a beautiful cutscene, sneaky pirates trying to disrupt the dragon bash, then you take the fight to them in a stunning dungeon (that area where the waves are crashing against the shore, heavy rain was so nice)

Now bazaar is here and OMG the first cutscene I get is about an election then talk to her further and its a trade agreement. This is a fantasy setting and I dealing with elections and trade agreements. FFS! stop it! from employment disputes to elections to trade agreements. This is how the star wars movies turned out first three were about adventure, the next three turned into a mess of trade agreements, elections (votes of no confidence) and the backlash from fans was severe.

TLDR… Stick to fantasy adventure, mystery, revenge, fighting against insurmountable odds, interesting villains, murder, romance, rescue missions… things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

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Posted by: captaincrash.6528

captaincrash.6528

I like that they are going with different plotlines to what you would normally experience, but I can agree that there does need to be more ‘traditional fantasy’ in the mix as well. Flame and Frost was good but missed that fantasy mark a little bit.

Crash ~ Charr Reaper

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Posted by: Thobek.1730

Thobek.1730

I like that they are going with different plotlines to what you would normally experience, but I can agree that there does need to be more ‘traditional fantasy’ in the mix as well. Flame and Frost was good but missed that fantasy mark a little bit.

forgot about F&F. That was also good. It was ‘us’ against an unknown threat, it developed and characters were involved that I kind of liked. Then we slowly discovered what was happening thanks to a spy leaving his reports scattered around the world. Those hints may me want to find out more. The dungeon was amazing and it felt epic, even planting the bombs and dashing to the exit before the place blew was fun.

I feel like two teams are working on the living story, one has it right and the other has no idea what fantasy is all about. I don’t play this game to be reminded of the real world. What’s next a mission about? resource consent? Maybe someone is accused of insider trading in the black lion trading company and you have to conduct due diligence on the parties involved going through 5,000 documents? (you’ll get an achievement for this)

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Posted by: Weirwynn.2390

Weirwynn.2390

TLDR… Stick to fantasy adventure, mystery, revenge, fighting against insurmountable odds, interesting villains, murder, romance, rescue missions… things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

Just because you don’t like it, doesn’t make it not fantasy. There are lots of fantasy stories built around politics and social maneuvering. If you don’t see something to empathize with in a story about a freedom fighter getting on the wrong side of the law, hurting those he’s trying to save just to do the right thing… Well, that’s your problem.

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Posted by: Coldin.2840

Coldin.2840

I happen to like political intrigue stories. If you’ve read Game of Thrones, that’s as much of a fantasy series as it is about political backstabbing and war.

I’m curious to see where this goes. After all, this was just the set up.

Coldin – Thief – Sanctum of Rall

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Posted by: Danikat.8537

Danikat.8537

I was going to tell you to avoid Robin Hobb’s books then because they are very much political intrigue and trade agreements in a fantasy setting, then I realised that’s just what I happen to be reading at the moment and I can’t actually think of a fantasy story where those sorts of inter-personal issues DON’T come into it.

Also, fun fact: pirates were actually the first people to introduce equal rights and contracts for employees. (It’s probably important when unhappy workers are liable to kill you.)

Danielle Aurorel, Dear Dragon We Got Your Cookies [Nom], Desolation (EU).

“Life’s a journey, not a destination.”

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Posted by: VitalSuit.1980

VitalSuit.1980

People are acting as if these “politics” will be as complex as they are in real life. Heads up, they won’t. Stop acting as if Anet is forcing you to learn about politics.

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Posted by: Sithaco.4673

Sithaco.4673

I’m going to be entirely honest here, the place looks great, but I didn’t spend much time in it, I made my way to the top and ran around on the floating ship thing, and left.

My reasoning for leaving was, what the hell is the point? What is the storyline, I really missed the Flame and Frost, except for the fact that it took like four months to complete, but as someone else said, we saw characters rise up and grow, we were fighting an unknown enemy, the only story I can gather from this thing is that two people want some sort of trade agreement, brilliant.

Oh yeah awesome it looks beautiful, ohhhhh wait it’s only here for a month, ok ok.

I’m just really glad that Arenanet seem to understand there faults and will be detailing the future of this game/permanent content ect. in a future blog post, because if they are seriously replacing expansions with the living story and THIS is the quality that we get, what the actually kitten.

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Posted by: Mathog.3157

Mathog.3157

This is how Living Story works:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBVrPWwSlRM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib084tzN8H0
And again, and again, and again. They just can’t do a good story with enemies that last one month.

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Posted by: Vitus Dance.4509

Vitus Dance.4509

My reasoning for leaving was, what the hell is the point? What is the storyline

Like most of the recent story lines…it’ll probably be unfolded slowly over the course of the event.

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Posted by: Leablo.2651

Leablo.2651

things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

Oh my.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

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Posted by: Shpongle.6025

Shpongle.6025

First of all let me say Bazaar of the four winds is a beautiful fantasy setting, my god when I first turned up and made my way to the top it was amazing. The floating ship was so beautifully put together, even the sounds of grinding wood and wind really made it feel like you were so high up. Such nice work on the visuals and setting, now the bad part…

The story is so weak. WEAK! southsun was boring, dealing with disgruntled employee’s contracts. Contracts?! really sounds like a typical day at work.

Aetherblade was great, starts of with a beautiful cutscene, sneaky pirates trying to disrupt the dragon bash, then you take the fight to them in a stunning dungeon (that area where the waves are crashing against the shore, heavy rain was so nice)

Now bazaar is here and OMG the first cutscene I get is about an election then talk to her further and its a trade agreement. This is a fantasy setting and I dealing with elections and trade agreements. FFS! stop it! from employment disputes to elections to trade agreements. This is how the star wars movies turned out first three were about adventure, the next three turned into a mess of trade agreements, elections (votes of no confidence) and the backlash from fans was severe.

TLDR… Stick to fantasy adventure, mystery, revenge, fighting against insurmountable odds, interesting villains, murder, romance, rescue missions… things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

totally duuudeee!! i loved it it was Supah-awesum!!

Are you Shpongled?

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Posted by: Gibson.4036

Gibson.4036

Game of Thrones wants to have a word with you.

Not to mention Under Heaven, The City and the City, Jonathan Strange and Mr. Norrell, The Scar, The Iron Council, Perdido Street Station, Sailing to Sarantium, and many others, all incorporating political and/or coporate intrigue into fantasy.

Every title in this post was a nominee for the World Fantasy Award.

There can be plenty of emotion evoked in trade agreements and employment contracts. It’s all in how you tell the story.

(edited by Gibson.4036)

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Posted by: mojowalker.3798

mojowalker.3798

I think it’s more a question of what the OP considers to be fantasy and there are “degrees”, to a certain extent. I’ve actually talked to quite a few people about the Game of Thrones series and how it is described as fantasy, but aside from the white walkers, the dragons (which haven’t yet played much of a role in any of the books other than as much sought after trophies), and a few other minor elements, it’s more of a medieval political thriller. George RR Martin himself has said it’s based a lot on the War of the Roses.

I think the OP is looking at in terms of your more “classic” or “sword & sorcery” type fantasy if you will, with the fate of the world at stake, as in LOTR, Dragonlance, etc. And I think what he means, and I’m just assuming here, is that he thinks an adventure into the mines of Moria would be more exciting than a seat at the table watching Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Varys have a battle of tongues.

“If you can’t beat them, get a bigger stick.”
- Some random quote -
The Walkers and the Whispers, ANVIL ROCK

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Posted by: VOLKON.1290

VOLKON.1290

This may come as a surprise, but GW2 isn’t a pure fantasy game. This opens the door for ANet to allow the creative juices to flow where they may, adding a little steam punk here, a sniff of sci-fi there, whatever bubbles up in their minds. I like it, it’s a welcome change from a pure this or that structure.

#TeamJadeQuarry

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Posted by: Ceallach.8740

Ceallach.8740

Personally, I don’t like overblown “fantasy” so I’m quite happy with it and this game in general.

One of my favourite books is Dune, so I feel like, yes, it’s possible to have politics AND beating people senseless in only your underwear.

Lord of the Rings also contained some pretty “political” stuff, it was just fairly hidden. I like that, too, when a story has multiple “layers” – but I don’t really expect that from a video game whose nature is basically a serial. They try, but the aspiration is to something like “LOST”, not a story that was planned over years and revised as a whole.

And, yeah, like someone else said – this is really not in-depth politics at all. It’s like a high-school election – and I think it will be actually pretty cool if we’re able to do something to influence the outcome.

I mean, I guess I don’t really care because I’m not playing this game to hear an amazing story. So far, I think it’s serviceable, but I’m not expecting something that makes me stay up all night reading and makes me go, “whoa dudes you gotta read this” to everyone I know.

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Posted by: zerospin.8604

zerospin.8604

Unfortunately story is the biggest weak point of GW2 in general. It was the risk I was willing to take when I got excited about it years before the release, I knew it would probably be just your typical generic fantasy. And it was. This is no Tolkien, the world is random and as deep or cohesive as a splash of water on the floor. The fact the world allows for almost anything, is in itself the weak point. That’s why I play only the storyless WvW now.

Each new event is the same, a new random race/faction with random armors and random culture that consists of a random few sentences, appears and does random things in random places that give you random things and random titles. That’s pure generic fantasy. For people new to fantasy this may be interesting, but for people who read J.R.R.Tolkien or Frank Herbert or G.R.R. Martin, this must seam like diluted water..

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Posted by: Zedd.8239

Zedd.8239

If you’re looking for a George R.R. Martin or J.R.R. Tolkien level story from an MMO (or a video game in general), you’re looking in the wrong place. The lore is often fleshed out fairly well in MMOs, and GW2 is no exception to that. But the stories are often paper thin. The stories are important for getting from point A to point B. That’s about it.

Also, George R.R. Martin’s series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, not Game of Thrones. The latter is the HBO series that’s loosely based on the former. A Song of Ice and Fire is largely about the politics and the wars that result from the game of thrones the high lords are playing, but the series features more and more magic as you get deeper into the story. A Dance with Dragons has a significant amount of magic that plays a critical role in the story and sets up the last two books to have even more. The series starts with very little magic. Then the dragons are hatched and the old powers begin waking up.

(edited by Zedd.8239)

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Posted by: Kal Spiro.9745

Kal Spiro.9745

I’m really not following how the premise of the story dictates its level of fantasy.

Southsun Cove
The premise: Contract dispute.
Location: A mysterious island covered with giant horrible monsters.
The conflict: One group wants the other group to work with them to clear out the giant horrible monsters so they can make it safe for visitors. The other group wants to leave but can’t.
This sounds sufficiently fantasy to me.

Baazar of the Four Winds
The premise: Trade agreement as leverage for an election
Location: A wonderous flying city on edge of a shear cliff filled with people who specialize in a rare and powerful form of magic.
The Conflict: The Zephyrites don’t trust outsides to make reasonable use of their magic and as such aren’t willing to make long time commitments to them for trade.
This also sounds sufficiently fantasy.

Tarnished Coast Kal Spiro – Ranger (80), LB/S-D, Eagle/Wolf, Signet, M/S/WS #SABorRiot
|Daredevil|Ranger|Guardian|Scrapper|Necromancer|Berserker|Dragonhunter|Mesmer|Elementalist
|Deadeye|Warrior|Herald|Daredevil|Reaper|Spellbreaker

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Posted by: Ceallach.8740

Ceallach.8740

Also, George R.R. Martin’s series is called A Song of Ice and Fire, not Game of Thrones. The latter is the HBO series that’s loosely based on the former.

How do you know they’re not referring to the show? Many people know it from just or mostly the show and there’s really nothing wrong with that – after all, the show does have a story that has all the elements being discussed and could be used as an example in the same capacity.

And even if they weren’t there’s really no shame or particular stupidity and calling something by a colloquial and well-recognised name. If I talk about the song “Baba O’Reily” a few people will smile and nod and be happy that someone called it by its “given name”, but I’m not going to correct anyone who calls it “Teenage Wasteland” unless we’re playing trivia and they ask me.

Sorry, my ability to be an Old Fart is showing.

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Posted by: Zedd.8239

Zedd.8239

How do you know they’re not referring to the show? Many people know it from just or mostly the show and there’s really nothing wrong with that – after all, the show does have a story that has all the elements being discussed and could be used as an example in the same capacity.

Because they mentioned the books and George R.R. Martin right after mentioning Game of Thrones.

Whatever the case, that part of my post was intended as a clarification in case people don’t know what the books are called. And I was disagreeing that they don’t have much magic. Initially the novels don’t have much magic at all but that grows along with the story. The show has intentionally cut most of the magical elements from the books. The Stark wolf dreams (not just Bran but all of the Stark children, including Jon), prophecies, and actual spells. So in the case of the show, it’s more of a medieval thriller. The books, on the other hand, are a completely different matter.

Both the show and the novels are obviously fair game for making comparisons to other media. I just think there should be a clearer distinction when discussing them. It’s like using the Harry Potter movies or the Harry Potter books. They’re so different that they are barely related beyond names and very basic plot details.

And even if they weren’t there’s really no shame or particular stupidity and calling something by a colloquial and well-recognised name. If I talk about the song “Baba O’Reily” a few people will smile and nod and be happy that someone called it by its “given name”, but I’m not going to correct anyone who calls it “Teenage Wasteland” unless we’re playing trivia and they ask me.

I wasn’t trying to shame anyone or call them stupid. I was clarifying that Game of Thrones (the HBO series) is different from A Song of Ice and Fire (the novels the HBO series is based on). The plots, characters, and level of detail are different enough between them that it warrants clarifying which one you’re referring to for the purposes of discussion. The same is true if you’re talking about The Walking Dead (the comic book) and The Walking Dead (the AMC series loosely based on the comic with the same name). Otherwise it just isn’t clear what is being talked about.

(edited by Zedd.8239)

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Posted by: Tachenon.5270

Tachenon.5270

I think the OP is looking at in terms of your more “classic” or “sword & sorcery” type fantasy if you will, with the fate of the world at stake, as in LOTR, Dragonlance, etc. And I think what he means, and I’m just assuming here, is that he thinks an adventure into the mines of Moria would be more exciting than a seat at the table watching Tyrion, Littlefinger, and Varys have a battle of tongues.

I would have gone with wits instead of tongues…

Meanwhile, in Kings Landing, Varys and Tyrion were racing around the council table with Littlefinger in hot pursuit yelling, “I’ll lick you yet!”

Anyway, I think the problem with GW2 is not that it is or isn’t fantasy – obviously, it is – but that it’s just so… light. Sure there are dark elements and themes scattered around, but overall the game tends toward comedy rather than drama.

For example: a dredge mining suit, walking. It’s just silly. :-P

The table is a fable.

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Posted by: Zedd.8239

Zedd.8239

The dredge mining suits actually have dredge inside controlling them…

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Posted by: Tachenon.5270

Tachenon.5270

The dredge mining suits actually have dredge inside controlling them…

Yes. And sometimes the player character has the opportunity to take one for a spin. Doesn’t matter who is inside controlling them. Once they start walking it’s like they are auditioning for a skit on Monty Python’s Flying Circus. It’s just silly.

The table is a fable.

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Posted by: Zedd.8239

Zedd.8239

The dredge mining suits actually have dredge inside controlling them…

Yes. And sometimes the player character has the opportunity to take one for a spin. Doesn’t matter who is inside controlling them. Once they start walking it’s like they are auditioning for a skit on Monty Python’s Flying Circus. It’s just silly.

Have you never heard of powered exoskeletons/body armor that enhance human abilities? This concept isn’t unique to the mining suits. It’s a fairly common sci-fi concept, which may not even really be sci-fi in the next 20 years. Actual human controlled exoskeletons have been in development for years by the US military (other countries are probably doing the same). There are even working prototypes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powered_exoskeleton

There’s really nothing silly about it at all except for maybe the animation.

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Posted by: takatsu.9416

takatsu.9416

While I would enjoy some more fantastical and whatever core lore that we’ve all been waiting for like the dragons and whatnot, we also understand they are slowly developing up to those core things. For example, the bazaar of the four winds seems to be like that, but if you talk to the NPCs you realize they actually come from having to do with Dwarves and Glint, the dragon, mentions Destiny’s Edge, which is a major story line.

Ellen Kiel, seems to be a re-occuring and significant character in the storyline right now. She even got character development from being promoted to Captain and having a position in the Council. This is significant in the entire storyline, it means there’s a lot more to come in the future regarding her and her involvement with our Gw2 universe.

So each other these little “boring” things, really is leading and connecting the dots eventually. I think it will take a lot more time though… so we have to sit tight.

As well, we can’t forget we are in the Gw2 lore and universe. Lion’s Arch is ran by Captain’s Council etc, the new novel Sea of Sorrows talks about the founding of the city and its political things as well as the epic sea battles. Throughout the gw2 universe there is a whole balance with the deeper political, and systematic issues with the actual action and fantasy. It is simply important to have the back story and all that in building a quality good world. If you research the lore, you realize they’ve put so much work into it, and its so massive like the LOTR universes with so many mysteries and unanswered questions. We would be missing out on a lot of VITAL details if they didn’t give us all the “boring” back story.

So i think they’re getting to balancing it out, but it will take some time. These are supposed to function like teasers imo, towards the bigger objectives and core storylines. Though yes, we all do find them a little boring. They could really put more potent teasers into it… haha

But this game i think needs some deep thinking. For example the karka stuff, you got some action from the LA invasion. But at the same time it is part of a bigger storyline, cuz we might have to think about where they came from. Did the sea dragon push them out of the sea? like other dragons pushed the norn, asura, quaggans, tengu, krait around etc

All in all, I don’t think we should call it weak. We have to consider the entire lore and storyline. The storyline is powerful and deep and there, but its just boring right now, we could use some more exciting developments

(edited by takatsu.9416)

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Posted by: Onshidesigns.1069

Onshidesigns.1069

Sky pirates then sky merchants. See how the two are related. You can’t have sky pirates without introducing the merchants for them to plunder. Anet is trying to make lore between both groups and LA. It takes time to create good lore.

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Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

Oh my.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

In my best Seth Meyers voice…

Really dude? Really? You think emotional involvement in a video-game equates to the stark pains and passions of real-life? Really?

end rant

It’s high fantasy…and ergo an escape from the mundane crap of the real world. We want to feel a certain amount of vicarious elation and drama through our avatars, whether it be in PvE or PvP. I mean…what’s next, tax code reform in Divinity’s Reach?

:/

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

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Posted by: Obsidian.1328

Obsidian.1328

The dredge mining suits actually have dredge inside controlling them…

Yes. And sometimes the player character has the opportunity to take one for a spin. Doesn’t matter who is inside controlling them. Once they start walking it’s like they are auditioning for a skit on Monty Python’s Flying Circus. It’s just silly.

^ that

The boss intro at the end of the F&F dungeon reminded me of the Ginyu Force doing yet another ridiculous pose session. It’s impossible to take any of the story seriously(or emotionally engaging) because of the sheer volume of silly antics and grade school humor.

Obsidian Sky – SoR
I troll because I care

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Posted by: mojowalker.3798

mojowalker.3798

I would have gone with wits instead of tongues…

Meanwhile, in Kings Landing, Varys and Tyrion were racing around the council table with Littlefinger in hot pursuit yelling, “I’ll lick you yet!”

That … would be awesome … and I do apologize — as one poster pointed out, the series is indeed Song of Fire and Ice, and I’ve read them all, but fail to see where any serious magical elements come in … but I’m an old school AD&Der, so when someone says magic, I think Fireball or Lightning Bolt.

“If you can’t beat them, get a bigger stick.”
- Some random quote -
The Walkers and the Whispers, ANVIL ROCK

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

Fantasy, as well as sci-fi, has been used several times as a framework to tell stories about real life situations and experiences.

The discworld series, for example, is high fantasy comedy, and the books have dealt with insurance companies, mail systems, free press, banking, religion, politics and so on. A Song of Ice and Fire (AKA Game of Thrones) is fantasy, yet you have politics, religion, trade and all sorts of stuff on it. The Black Company series of books are also set in a fantasy book, but the style and stories would feel right at home in a gritty war novel, just to name a few. And well, if you go to the basis, The Phantom Menace (I know, not the best example, but since star wars is considered a mix of sci-fi and fantasy) is all about a trade dispute.

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

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Posted by: Sir Vincent III.1286

Sir Vincent III.1286

@OP

Roll a Human and you get slam with politics in the face.

Roll a Charr…again politics.

Roll any Sylvari…politics.

Roll an Asura…politics overload.

Roll a Norn…politics.

Even in our personal story there’s politics.

So I wonder…what game were you playing all these time?

http://sirvincentiii.com ~ In the beginning…there was Tarnished Coast…
Full set of 5 unique skills for both dual-wield weapon sets: P/P and D/D – Make it happen
PvE – DD/CS/AC – If that didn’t work, roll a Reaper or Revenant.

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Posted by: Farzo.8410

Farzo.8410

I really miss the mystery from original Guild Wars.

Hell I even miss Kormir and her story stealing my scene.

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Posted by: Zedd.8239

Zedd.8239

Fantasy, as well as sci-fi, has been used several times as a framework to tell stories about real life situations and experiences.

The discworld series, for example, is high fantasy comedy, and the books have dealt with insurance companies, mail systems, free press, banking, religion, politics and so on. A Song of Ice and Fire (AKA Game of Thrones) is fantasy, yet you have politics, religion, trade and all sorts of stuff on it. The Black Company series of books are also set in a fantasy book, but the style and stories would feel right at home in a gritty war novel, just to name a few. And well, if you go to the basis, The Phantom Menace (I know, not the best example, but since star wars is considered a mix of sci-fi and fantasy) is all about a trade dispute.

Exactly. Just because something is high fantasy doesn’t mean it can’t deal with more complex issues. It’s all about how it goes about dealing with them that makes them entertaining or interesting.

I think the lore for Guild Wars 2 is fantastic. It’s some of the most interesting lore in an MMO in my opinion. The story itself is fairly straightforward and a bit predictable. And in some places (e.g., story mode for The Ruined City of Arah), it’s disappointing and anticlimactic. Overall though, I think that as far as MMO stories go, it’s decent. Brilliant? No. Adequate? Yeah. Can they improve? Absolutely.

Having said all of that, I still think that if you’re looking for really in-depth, complex fantasy stories that looking to MMOs or other RPGs is the wrong approach. Your best bet is to track down well-written books.

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Posted by: mojowalker.3798

mojowalker.3798

Ahhh, but GW1 had all the political fun and excitement between the Shining Blade and the White Mantle.

“If you can’t beat them, get a bigger stick.”
- Some random quote -
The Walkers and the Whispers, ANVIL ROCK

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Posted by: Tachenon.5270

Tachenon.5270

There’s really nothing silly about it at all except for maybe the animation.

That’s what I’m talking about. The silly way the thing walks.

The table is a fable.

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Posted by: Zedd.8239

Zedd.8239

There’s really nothing silly about it at all except for maybe the animation.

That’s what I’m talking about. The silly way the thing walks.

Then that’s something else entirely. I thought you meant the concept of a powered exoskeleton was what was silly.

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Posted by: Leablo.2651

Leablo.2651

things that evoke emotions. Trade agreements and employment contracts do not.

Oh my.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_Seattle_WTO_protests
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Wisconsin_protests

In my best Seth Meyers voice…

Really dude? Really? You think emotional involvement in a video-game equates to the stark pains and passions of real-life? Really?

end rant

Oh my.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man

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Posted by: Curuniel.4830

Curuniel.4830

To my mind, this is the point of the living story. The personal story is all heroics – large-scale, saving the world stuff! Uniting the people! Slaying dragons! Classic. But Tyria can’t be like that all the time. When we move on to another dragon, sure, bring on the heroic scale – but the living story is the everyday life of Tyria. From that angle, there’s still an awful lot going on all the time.

I think it’s perfectly appropriate for the living story content to be more everyday, and to follow the power struggles and grievances of important NPCs. Fantasy stories in novels etc work because you can assume that the events of this story are exceptional, a major turning point in the world’s history. It becomes less believable if those kinds of world-changing battles and evil overlords happen every week!

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Posted by: Danomeon.3201

Danomeon.3201

I love the setting here, actually. It’s a really neat environment, and I particularly like the in-game politics. I enjoy the character development in particular, and this new patch really nails down that feeling of exploring a brand new world. It’s really cool!

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Posted by: Lord Kuru.3685

Lord Kuru.3685

It’s harder to make a politics type story exciting than a “traditional” sword and sorcery story — I just don’t think the writing team is up to it.

The settlers are stuck with bad written contracts. So destroy them and they’ll all be freed! I found that SO simplistic and didn’t fit well with the world created.

The OP has the perfect comparison: the storytelling is of Star Wars Episodes 1-3 quality.

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Posted by: Ceallach.8740

Ceallach.8740

How do you know they’re not referring to the show? Many people know it from just or mostly the show and there’s really nothing wrong with that – after all, the show does have a story that has all the elements being discussed and could be used as an example in the same capacity.

Because they mentioned the books and George R.R. Martin right after mentioning Game of Thrones.

Whatever the case, that part of my post was intended as a clarification in case people don’t know what the books are called. And I was disagreeing that they don’t have much magic. Initially the novels don’t have much magic at all but that grows along with the story. The show has intentionally cut most of the magical elements from the books. The Stark wolf dreams (not just Bran but all of the Stark children, including Jon), prophecies, and actual spells. So in the case of the show, it’s more of a medieval thriller. The books, on the other hand, are a completely different matter.

Both the show and the novels are obviously fair game for making comparisons to other media. I just think there should be a clearer distinction when discussing them. It’s like using the Harry Potter movies or the Harry Potter books. They’re so different that they are barely related beyond names and very basic plot details.

I agree and disagree, respectfully. I think it was clear that they were talking about the books – as you said – but in the event someone didn’t catch that it would have had the same impact on the conversation.

To be honest, I’m not a huge fan of the “magic” elements in ASOIAF, it just doesn’t work for me – I put up with it for the rest of it. I guess I’m just old and jaded and it goes to show that (not speaking to you directly in this) that everyone has different taste. I don’t play video games to escape the troubles of real life and don’t read for that reason, either – I do it because I am interested in exploring the troubles of real life and I just like killing monsters on the Internet.

What I love about reading is a good story. I love how much Tolkien put into the linguistics of LoTR it makes it so much more “alive” to me. I don’t think I’m “not a fan of” fantasy, but that I’m just a bit too picky. I understand it’s not fair to hold everyone up to Tolkien so I appreciate others for what they are. Since books are reading the lack of linguistic skill can make a very large difference, though – I think that’s one reason I find the HBO Game of Thrones a bit more tolerable in that respect; good actors can impart meaning to words that might otherwise sound a bit too-too just as good actors can make Shakespeare sound “comprehensible” to even unfamiliar modern people.

Like I said in another post, I don’t expect that level of storytelling in an MMO – it’s not that I give it a pass to be “bad”, but I expect serial content and that’s a challenge, too. The Lore is fairly decent and the level of writing and depth of character is to me deeper than I’ve experienced in any other MMO and if you really get into Lore as a whole and not just the PS and LW it can be up there with solid single-player RPGs. I just watched The Avengers for the first time and I feel that’s what most people want out of these stories – cool characters being cool and doing cool stuff and explosions, but I hated the lack of… substance and it required too much work on the part of the viewer to impart any. At least with an MMO we are here for many hours, not just one or two – so we reasonably have time to read about the lore and talk to NPCs and learn things – fill in the blanks.

If anything, I really wish the dialogue was more in-depth. I wish there were choices like in a stand-alone RPG and spontaneous quests and hints. The Heart system is great – I like it, but I also wish there was that chance of random commoner #93 saying she lost her ring somewhere in the forest/other district/et cetera and wishing she had it back, implying you could go find it. It would make the world seem more alive and dynamic.

Hmm, but I think I’ve gone off-topic for this thread.

tl;dr I’m a miserable old fart

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Posted by: nglcpyro.4906

nglcpyro.4906

I think the point is to show that outside the whole personal story and Tyria in general, my understanding is that the Living Story shows there’s more happening than ‘saving the world from eternal doom’, like politics, shopping and trade agreements. It sounds un-fantasy like on the surface but if you think about, take away the dragon presence and it’s just a world with all the boring real life stuff.

Though F&F signals another sub plot going on I think in the background which we’ll go back to soon. Still no idea who the ‘person from our past’ is.

[OCD]Ordo Contegium Destinatus
-Plush Griffon Recruit of the Jade Quarry Militia-

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Posted by: ProtoGunner.4953

ProtoGunner.4953

Sorry, but every experienced RPG player knows that the small things what it is all about. Fantasy is becoming redundant and I like the approach of GW2 where there is more technology, a bit steam/clockwork punk etc. It reminds me of the really old good JRPGs back in the 90ies.

I have some complaints about this game (for me too small content, everything done, nothing to do after getting geared up, done all dungeons, world completion etc., legendaries). BUT one of the BIG, BIG, BIG strengths of Anet is the great talent in art design and creating worlds. In my opinion they are in this industry sector one of the best teams out there, and I play a lot of games…

‘would have/would’ve been’ —> correct
‘would of been’ —> wrong

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Posted by: Mia Lunarfang.5826

Mia Lunarfang.5826

Yes, elections and contracts are a big part of fantasy, just look at Lord of the Rings, you can’t tell me there wasnt any politics in that, and LotR is just about as fantasy as it gets. Yet once again, you all fail to see the point. The ‘Bazaar of the Four Winds’ has the initial foundations of what could be a good story; dangerous and mysterious traders, an election over a seat of power in the greatest and most influential city in the world, a beautiful and magical airship, and an intriguing group of sky dwellers… and then? Does the plot thicken, do they make any cinematic use of the game mechanics? No. They throw in all these little plot devices and do nothing with them.

If this is about two competitors vying for support, why don’t we see them smoothing it over with the Zephyrites leader? Maybe they would get on his good side by saving him from a bad trading deal, or jump in to assist him when a bar fight gets a little rough, and he would suggest that whoever wins the big sanctum sprint tournament would be his trade partner, or Kiel could challenge the leader to a game of Belchers Bluff for the honor. Or even better, something along the line of ‘to gain our trust, you must be at one with our ways…’ and have a trial where you help Keil collect the sky crystals to prove she respects their ancient ways, and is a worthy ally.

There’s so many things they could do with the content they released, so many ways to forge a story, yet all they give us is mini games and jumping puzzles… really, that’s all this release was.

(edited by Mia Lunarfang.5826)

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Posted by: Mia Lunarfang.5826

Mia Lunarfang.5826

I want to see Keil struggling her hardest to improve public relations, giving it her best, while the trading post guy goes about his devious and underhanded ways.

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Posted by: Tachenon.5270

Tachenon.5270

There’s so many things they could do with the content they released, so many ways to forge a story, yet all they give us is mini games and jumping puzzles… really, that’s all this release was.

It might have been interesting to have ‘campaign’ missions/quests the players could do to garner favor for their preferred candidate, which, when all was said and done, would determine which candidate would be elected.

The table is a fable.

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Posted by: Myramar.8657

Myramar.8657

“Fantasy” is a huuuge and broad term of what is it and what could it be.

it can be about some epic heroes, or about a boy who becomes a wizard, or about political intrigues, about love or deep hate, about traders, fighters, cowards, idiots, heroes, mages… just about everything you know from real life + magical or otherwise interesting world and environments.

So what is wrong with an election or a trade agreement?

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Posted by: Apotheosis.3786

Apotheosis.3786

I just left SWoTR for this. I don’t like syfy at all, and this game is starting to feel very syfy

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Posted by: Gibson.4036

Gibson.4036

Because they mentioned the books and George R.R. Martin right after mentioning Game of Thrones.

Actually, I wasn’t referring to the television series, which I haven’t seen, and I wasn’t referring to the book series, which I haven’t read. I was refering to the novel, A Game of Thrones which is the first of the series, and the one I am currently reading.

Fantasy does no require heavy magic in order to be fantasy, and the novel A Game of Thrones has plenty of supernatural elements in it even though it is the first in the series. Not only are the White Walkers and Old Gods constantly present in the characters’ conversations, omens figure heavily into the story starting with the discovery of the direwolf hounds, as well as mystical visions like Bran’s while he is unconscious or Ned’s dreams.

It’d probably be clearer for the OP to state that he would like the game to be more Sword and Sorcery or Pulp Fantasy.

I’m not saying that the political elements in GW2 are particularly deep or engaging like the books I mentioned, just pointing out that the assumption that political intrigue doesn’t belong in fantasy is wrong.

Thanks to Locoman for the addition of the Discworld series for a world dripping with magic that still heavily features political and corporate intrigue.