Guild Wars 2

I was arguing with someone about the nature of fair pricing over chat a little while ago and started quoting ridiculous prices(some morally, some attacking the logic behind it), and when I looked, I realized this little gem.

When I go to tell my items, I cannot go below market value by an estimate of 10%(my guess), so if I cut the price in 3, it won’t accept my price and sets it to the highest buyer regardless of my actual morality, choice, or ideas. Heck, it won’t even let me post my stuff at my own price.

Now, this is where I really hope I am wrong….can someone explain why these same items are selling for 3x the ‘market’ value? Yah, get this, a lot of items are selling upwards of 4x their lowest price, but I am not even allowed to go downward. For reasons of morals I can’t test that so I need an answer.

Can I sell items at as high a price as I desire, but not the other way around. why is it allowed to go 4x above the minimum posting, but not the other way around?! Am I missing something, can someone explain for example why mithril ore, which I can sell at minimum to 46 bronze, has over 14k available items worth 1.5 silver?!

Is there some reason why you want to sell your stuff at a price LOWER than the highest bidder?

Someone is offering 10g to buy an item. If you choose to sell an item for less, the system assumes you mean to sell it to the current high bidder because the assumption is you want as much as you can get from someone actively seeking that item and the buyer is clearly ponying up more than what you are asking. Buyer gets the item, you get more than you were looking for, win-win.

No reason to prevent you from asking for considerably more for your item that the current high bid or low sale price.

As for items with high sale prices, some list them assuming at some point the price will rise to that level. Other times the price may have spiked to that level and those listed items are a “fossil” of that time. The owner of that item may be using the TP has a paid storage locker, pricing an item well beyond the normal trading range.

As for mithril, Aug 30th, 2012. Someone put a sell order for mithril at 1.35s. The TP was less than a day or two old and nobody had any idea what a fair price for anything was. A week later it was 25c. Someone might have never pulled their sale order.

To add to Behellagh’s explaination:

In order for a buyer to post a Buy Offer, they put up the money in advance. So let’s say I want Item X, and I’m offering 10 Gold for it. The money is already paid, and the TP is holding it until my order is filled. So now you come along, and have Item X for sale. Your morals tell you that it’s only worth 7 Gold, and you wish to list it for such. But, since I’ve already put 10 Gold down, and I’m currently the highest “bidder”, the system sets the lowest price you can sell it for as my price. I’m not allowed to get a refund of 3 Gold, simply because you want to sell it for less than my price. I’ve paid in advance already. The TP took my money, and is reserving that for whomever sells it first.

So what you have to do is now choose to either wait for all Buy Orders to be filled before you sell your item, or just take my money and be done with it. To be honest, if someone is offering to pay X amount more than what you want for it, that would be a fair price. If feel strongly against this, simply sell the item to a merchant, and that will save you from moral headaches.

Not exactly sure what you’re getting at, but with regards to buy orders, the system is just not set up to deliberately sell an item for less than the highest buy order.

When the player places the buy order, the system collects the money to pay for it and holds it until the order is filled or cancelled. If I place a buy order for an item at 10g, the 10g is taken from me right then and there. You do not have the option of saying “I only want 8g so give tolunart 2g back.” You sell the item, you get the 10g the system is holding, and I get the item.

Why does it work that way? Because whoever programmed the system never imagined that someone would say “I don’t want that much money, give some back to the buyer.” Frankly, I don’t think anyone would expect that to happen. It’s like walking onto a car lot and insisting that you will pay $30,000 for a $20,000 car. It just doesn’t work like that.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If feel strongly against this, simply sell the item to a merchant, and that will save you from moral headaches.

Or just send it to me. I’ll be happy to take it off your hands for nothing, and you can feel all warm and fuzzy about it.

tolunart.2095:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If feel strongly against this, simply sell the item to a merchant, and that will save you from moral headaches.

Or just send it to me. I’ll be happy to take it off your hands for nothing, and you can feel all warm and fuzzy about it.

I offered an explanation a few minutes before you did, so I should be ahead of you in the queue for any free giveaways. That would be the morally right thing.

Thank you penguin for that, that answers things a lot.
Forgive me if this seemed angry, I’ve long passed my issues with TP, but this one physically baffled me, it made absolutely no sense. So yah, needed clarity, thank you : D

thank you very much for the answer.

Oh and Tolrunt, I agree, the designers never thought people might want to sell lower than most people expect, but it’s still shocking to me no one thought that sellers shouldn’t do the same, ever heard of a sale? Sellers will drop the price all the time for tons of reasons.
Ex: Someone might push a price drop on silver dubloons to lure a lot of buyers into dropping in to at least check the price, luring in new potential sales for a while before turning them to a higher price.

Eh, it’s essentially a commodities market simulator, not a virtual mall. The idea of “clearance sale” doesn’t really apply here.

tolunart.2095:

Eh, it’s essentially a commodities market simulator, not a virtual mall. The idea of “clearance sale” doesn’t really apply here.

It does when you simply flood the market with dozens (precs for example) or hundreds to thousands of an item to the point you saturate the market until there’s no more buy orders and the prices left on the market are a fraction of the item’s value an hour or three earlier.

No a clearance sale does make sense if someone is quitting or has too much of an item and is just rich.
but the fact I lack any control as a seller, just make me not want to trade here. Either way this thread is a question, not an argument, see my post in another thread a few minutes ago more details.

That’s called a great opportunity for speculators.

I understand where you’re coming from, it’s just a limitation of computers, they can only do the things they are programmed to do. Like RPers complaining because they can’t do something as simple as sit in a chair and drink a mug of ale… the program just wasn’t designed to do this.

tolunart.2095:

That’s called a great opportunity for speculators.

I understand where you’re coming from, it’s just a limitation of computers, they can only do the things they are programmed to do. Like RPers complaining because they can’t do something as simple as sit in a chair and drink a mug of ale… the program just wasn’t designed to do this.

Agreed, though this is more major a mi-step than the former.

You’re free to express your opinion. The game is nearly two years old, and this is the first time I’ve heard of someone complaining because they make too much money.

tolunart.2095:

You’re free to express your opinion. The game is nearly two years old, and this is the first time I’ve heard of someone complaining because they make too much money.

It’s more the lack of control. Both a buyer and seller need to be able to effect the market as seen fit, markets must be fair and cannot take away from either side. My complaint is I can’t effect anything, I have to run by what is expected by buyers regardless of personal opinion in any direction.
and I find it hard to believe no one has brought that up before.

tolunart.2095:

You’re free to express your opinion. The game is nearly two years old, and this is the first time I’ve heard of someone complaining because they make too much money.

Strangely enough, this is the second time I’ve come across a thread on the forums with a player that was confused (and the first thread creator was actually outraged) as to why they could not sell an item for less than the highest buy order due to their feeling it was not worth that high of an amount.

He is the same player that made that post. He does not understand for some reason. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Am-I-the-only-one-experiencing-this/first. I remember that post because one of my highest post is in it.

Ulion.5476:

He is the same player that made that post. He does not understand for some reason. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Am-I-the-only-one-experiencing-this/first. I remember that post because one of my highest post is in it.

Oh…wow. I’m not quite sure what to think now since this person felt the need to bring the same topic up once again 2 and a half months after the first thread they made on it (which even had the John Smith explaining it to them then).

I think we should all just back away from this thread very slowly…and then, as skritt say, “Run away!”

The buyer and seller have exactly complimentary limitations. A seller is not allowed to sell below the highest bid and a buyer is not allowed to buy above the lowest listing. They are both limited, just in opposite directions.

Cormac.3871:

The buyer and seller have exactly complimentary limitations. A seller is not allowed to sell below the highest bid and a buyer is not allowed to buy above the lowest listing. They are both limited, just in opposite directions.

They are, but that would begin a discussion on bulk transactions, their viability, and a bunch of other stuff that’d confuse most normal players (not always a bad thing).

It doesn’t matter what you as an individual feel is a fair price. If people want to pay that much, it’s worth that much.

StinVec.3621:

Ulion.5476:

He is the same player that made that post. He does not understand for some reason. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Am-I-the-only-one-experiencing-this/first. I remember that post because one of my highest post is in it.

Oh…wow. I’m not quite sure what to think now since this person felt the need to bring the same topic up once again 2 and a half months after the first thread they made on it (which even had the John Smith explaining it to them then).

I think we should all just back away from this thread very slowly…and then, as skritt say, “Run away!”

This is more of that “capitalism is inherently evil”-think that’s been infecting pop culture lately. All things should be done solely for altruism purposes, apparently.

Coming from a hardcore liberal: OP you’re a weirdo.

I understand where the OP is coming from and what he’s suggesting.

Imagine a hot dog street vendor. You dislike the notion of paying $10 for a dog when you know the ingredients cost the guy less than a buck. You want to open your own food cart and sell hot dogs for $3 each. No reason to be greedy. Except you find out there is some regulation (enacted to prevent another hot dog vendor massacre due to price wars) that you can’t sell them for $3 each unless you are 100 yards away from the nearest hot dog vendor, if you’re closer you have to sell them at the same price.

There isn’t a way to intentionally manipulate the price lower on the TP by setting up a “$3 hot dog cart” as long as there are players willing to pay $10. The only way to do so is to flood the TP with enough supply first satisfy all the existing higher price bids above your target price. That means you have to be sitting on a hoard of items and only then you can start listing your sell orders at your lower price.

It’s the opposite of buying up the current supply to spike the price. In this case you are satisfying all the higher bids. Problem is there’s a reason the price was high to begin with and that has to do with lack of supply relative to demand.

If OP wants to sell hot dogs at $3 if the market is paying $10 I’m sure he will find in map chat or here in the BLTC forum people willing to make that transaction with him…

zeibars.9781:

If OP wants to sell hot dogs at $3 if the market is paying $10 I’m sure he will find in map chat or here in the BLTC forum people willing to make that transaction with him…

These forums are not a grey market

Guhracie.3419:

zeibars.9781:

If OP wants to sell hot dogs at $3 if the market is paying $10 I’m sure he will find in map chat or here in the BLTC forum people willing to make that transaction with him…

These forums are not a grey market

I did not suggest using these forums as a grey market but if OP wants to hand free gold out and needs ideas of who to hand it to he can look at people who post here. Or ask in map chat (in case there isn’t anyone in map asking for people to send him gold.. in that case OP can trade with them)

It would appear that the OP has gotten what he has asked for.

Trading Post
•The listing fee can no longer be avoided by listing an item at a lower price than the highest buy order. Items priced lower than an existing highest buy order will now be sold at the lower price. The player with the highest buy order will receive the item and be refunded any difference in price.

In todays patch notes. Grats!

pdavis.8031:

It would appear that the OP has gotten what he has asked for.

Trading Post
•The listing fee can no longer be avoided by listing an item at a lower price than the highest buy order. Items priced lower than an existing highest buy order will now be sold at the lower price. The player with the highest buy order will receive the item and be refunded any difference in price.

In todays patch notes. Grats!

Actually, it’s to fix an exploit that we’ve known about for some time, but weren’t allowed to talk about it. But at least now the OP can be happy to sell stuff for less than our Buy Order prices. That makes flipping so much more profitable for us traders.

Behellagh.1468:

I understand where the OP is coming from and what he’s suggesting.

Imagine a hot dog street vendor. You dislike the notion of paying $10 for a dog when you know the ingredients cost the guy less than a buck. You want to open your own food cart and sell hot dogs for $3 each. No reason to be greedy. Except you find out there is some regulation (enacted to prevent another hot dog vendor massacre due to price wars) that you can’t sell them for $3 each unless you are 100 yards away from the nearest hot dog vendor, if you’re closer you have to sell them at the same price.

There isn’t a way to intentionally manipulate the price lower on the TP by setting up a “$3 hot dog cart” as long as there are players willing to pay $10. The only way to do so is to flood the TP with enough supply first satisfy all the existing higher price bids above your target price. That means you have to be sitting on a hoard of items and only then you can start listing your sell orders at your lower price.

It’s the opposite of buying up the current supply to spike the price. In this case you are satisfying all the higher bids. Problem is there’s a reason the price was high to begin with and that has to do with lack of supply relative to demand.

This is not an analogous condition, your parallel is tilting.

If there was a line up of people already at the cart area willing to pay $8 for a hotdog, but the hotdog seller is only selling for $10, and they choose to wait, then there’s no benefit to a seller to come in and offer a $3 dog. They aren’t going to “drum up new business”, the business is already there.

There’s nothing stopping the buyer from lowering what they will accept to $3. They’ve chosen $8 (which is less than the hot dog sale price or else they’d have a hotdog now), because they’ve valued the hot dog at that price and are willing to pay it.

The idea of a clearance sale to get rid of items doesn’t make sense either, that’s a red herring. Lets say there was a mystical world where you had 100 items, all with $10 buy orders (each) on the TP. you would sell them equally quickly on the TP at the $10 price than at the $3 price, provided there were enough buy orders at that price.

That, to me, is the only argument I can see for setting lower prices. What if you have 100 items to sell, only 90 buy orders at your price, but you want to sell all 100 right now? Then you have to list multiple times. This becomes worse if, say, there’s only a handful of buyers at each price point – you end up having to put in a LOT of listings to sell your stack.

But in a trading post where you can’t see the name of a seller, there’s no benefit otherwise to selling below a buy order.

orenwolf.1953:

That, to me, is the only argument I can see for setting lower prices. What if you have 100 items to sell, only 90 buy orders at your price, but you want to sell all 100 right now? Then you have to list multiple times. This becomes worse if, say, there’s only a handful of buyers at each price point – you end up having to put in a LOT of listings to sell your stack.

But in a trading post where you can’t see the name of a seller, there’s no benefit otherwise to selling below a buy order.

If there are only 90 Buy Orders, there’s nothing you can do to sell 100 items right away. You need to wait for the 10 extra to be bought, or sell them to a merchant. Those are your only choices.

Now as for selling below a Buy Order, that does nothing but help TP flippers make more money. If my Buy Order is currently the highest, and someone sells the item below my price, my order is filled first, and I also get a refund of the difference.

StinVec.3621:

Ulion.5476:

He is the same player that made that post. He does not understand for some reason. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Am-I-the-only-one-experiencing-this/first. I remember that post because one of my highest post is in it.

Oh…wow. I’m not quite sure what to think now since this person felt the need to bring the same topic up once again 2 and a half months after the first thread they made on it (which even had the John Smith explaining it to them then).

I think we should all just back away from this thread very slowly…and then, as skritt say, “Run away!”

Actually this is the THIRD thread the OP has made on this subject. The other one is: Problems with the Trading Post

In that thread he was also pointed to the answers already given in his first thread.

Astral Projections.7320:

StinVec.3621:

Ulion.5476:

He is the same player that made that post. He does not understand for some reason. https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Am-I-the-only-one-experiencing-this/first. I remember that post because one of my highest post is in it.

Oh…wow. I’m not quite sure what to think now since this person felt the need to bring the same topic up once again 2 and a half months after the first thread they made on it (which even had the John Smith explaining it to them then).

I think we should all just back away from this thread very slowly…and then, as skritt say, “Run away!”

Actually this is the THIRD thread the OP has made on this subject. The other one is: Problems with the Trading Post

In that thread he was also pointed to the answers already given in his first thread.

Yeah, I mentioned the user having made this and another new thread on the same subject as the one that had been discussed at length that had been linked above (that also had John Smith explaining it to them in it) in the report when I requested this and the other thread’s closure. Both new threads still exist and have not been closed, despite discussing the same subjects and opened by the same user as the above linked thread. I suppose they left the two new threads open because of the impending change that was made today, as that is the only reason I can think of for the two new threads to have remained open. However, that does not explain why the two new ones were not merged into the above linked existing thread made by the user. These two should be merged to the old one or both closed per forum rules, end of story.