Guild Wars 2

Hopefully I post this in the correct subforum.

I had a interesting thought earlier today: would it be a good idea to add Black Lions Keys to the laurel vendor. So far I’ve come to this:

Pros+
- Additional way to gain access to gem store products without buying gems
- Less frustration with Living Story skins only being available in the Black Lion Chests and thus “behind a paywall”
- Laurel sink a-la 5 dyes for 5 laurels

Cons-
- Inflation of Black Lion skins on the market (could be managed with proper Laurel price)
- Overflooding the laurel vendor

What do you think, are there points that I’ve missed? Things I haven’t considered?

I’m not opposed, but understand that the keys are probably a pretty decent chunk of their revenue, so the laurel cost would probably be a bit steep (like 5+ per key)

mtpelion.4562:

I’m not opposed, but understand that the keys are probably a pretty decent chunk of their revenue, so the laurel cost would probably be a bit steep (like 5+ per key)

Considering I have over 120 laurels I’m not going to use, I’d pay 5 laurels for ’em.

mtpelion.4562:

I’m not opposed, but understand that the keys are probably a pretty decent chunk of their revenue, so the laurel cost would probably be a bit steep (like 5+ per key)

I agree and I will go further. I have 200+ laurels to waste, this certainly will not be a bad idea, since it benefits the players.

Unfortunately, like every dumb “suggestion” to improve the black lion store OP completely forgot about Arenanet’s part in this new system.

If you cannot come up with a solution that benefits Arenanet as well, just don’t waste your time because Arenanet isn’t going to change it unless they was a significant financial incentive to. So far selling keys for laurel only benefits some player, the ones stocking up on laurel, it will certainly destroy the value of the black lion weapons on the TP. And it will significantly cut into Arenanet sources of revenue and I doubt given the YoY drop in revenue Arenanet will be too happy to accept.

tl;dr
come up with a way that this system benefits Arenanet financially (don’t try to lie to garner support Arenanet has people that do estimates) or you better go farm keys.

Someone does not understand the concept of “They want your money”.

This will never happen.

Somebody did some math on reddit and long story short, the “value” of a key is around 15g right now, and if laurels were an alternate (but not cheaper) way of getting keys, a key realistically would (should) be around 15 laurels.

I think that’s fair.

I also think it won’t break ANet’s back financially as laurels are so heavily time-gated.

Then again, thinking about it, you could just use 15 laurels to buy T6 mats to sell for 15g – repeat a couple times and buy the skin you want off the TP. Same average outcome, but no RNG.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Someone does not understand the concept of “They want your money”.

This will never happen.

Yes. I was amazed to get a key drop in Kessex Hills this week. I get exotic weopons with way more frequency.

Bellizare.5816:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Someone does not understand the concept of “They want your money”.

This will never happen.

Yes. I was amazed to get a key drop in Kessex Hills this week. I get exotic weopons with way more frequency.

almost like exotics are not that hard to get. Exotics have always been easier to get compared to getting a key, which makes sense when you realize that a key actually has value unlike most exotics.

silvermember.8941:

Bellizare.5816:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Someone does not understand the concept of “They want your money”.

This will never happen.

Yes. I was amazed to get a key drop in Kessex Hills this week. I get exotic weopons with way more frequency.

almost like exotics are not that hard to get. Exotics have always been easier to get compared to getting a key, which makes sense when you realize that a key actually has value unlike most exotics.

Yes. Just pointing out that the little old keys are scarce as hen’s teeth in real world drops. But they do drop.

Agree that exotics are not so hard to get once you are 80 and have decent mf.

I have no strong opinion one way or the other!
However, I believe you are greatly underestimating their price.

The best exchange between laurel and gold is heavy crafting bag, which gives about 1g (after tax) for the cost of 1 laurel.
To Anet, keys cost 2100 gems for 25 keys (84 gems per key)
At today’s prices, it costs 16g to buy 100 gems, or 13g44s to buy 84 gems.
So at a minimum, it would cost 15 laurels to buy a key. Likely closer to 30 or 50 to dissuade people from buying keys through this, and for future gem price increases.

But I doubt they will add them.
Lionguard Lyns likely scared them away from ever offering keys for anything but gems and special rewards.
The story:
Originally, she offered keys for 285 Captain’s Council Commendations as part of wintersday festivities.
You got commendations by donating items to the mystic forge
The cheapest way to get commendations was by throwing 3 x level 80 exotic trinkets into the forge. You would get 2000 commendations for that. All the other recipes gave far less than half that many for the same value (3 x level 80 exotic weapons only gave 600, rares only gave like 200).
Exotic snowflake trinkets could be crafted for under 1g each. Sometimes as low as 70s each.
So 3g to get 7 keys. 42s per key.
Needless to say, it was abused.
Without warning, they closed Lyns and promised she would come back. The ability to get more commendations was not disabled. A month later, she came back without the keys (she also sold lionguard weapons and special harvesting tools). A month after that, she left for good.

I can easily get a key in a little over an hour even after the run nerf.

I may be missing something here, but does that mean that it is more economical to key run rather than farm gold to buy the key?

Bellizare.5816:

I can easily get a key in a little over an hour even after the run nerf.

I may be missing something here, but does that mean that it is more economical to key run rather than farm gold to buy the key?

It terms of pure cost, yes its more economical to do a key run then farm the gold to buy the key. Why? Well, for each transaction in converting gold to gems, the cost in gold for gems increases. Thus making subsequent gold farming for keys more expensive.Also, unless you are buying gear for your key run character, it’s cheaper then doing dungeons. Doing dungeons requires you to travel. So if you want to do them quickly you are going to be using the WPs, which for a level 80 character, and depending on which order you are doing the runs, can cost at least 2s per WP.

In doing key runs, at least leveling to level 10, there are little to no costs invloved and thus every coin you gain, is profit.

At least thats how I look at it.

pdavis.8031:

Bellizare.5816:

I can easily get a key in a little over an hour even after the run nerf.

I may be missing something here, but does that mean that it is more economical to key run rather than farm gold to buy the key?

It terms of pure cost, yes its more economical to do a key run then farm the gold to buy the key. Why? Well, for each transaction in converting gold to gems, the cost in gold for gems increases. Thus making subsequent gold farming for keys more expensive.Also, unless you are buying gear for your key run character, it’s cheaper then doing dungeons. Doing dungeons requires you to travel. So if you want to do them quickly you are going to be using the WPs, which for a level 80 character, and depending on which order you are doing the runs, can cost at least 2s per WP.

In doing key runs, at least leveling to level 10, there are little to no costs invloved and thus every coin you gain, is profit.

At least thats how I look at it.

Well, that makes sense.

Also, I found that it is a good idea to have a level 80 open the loot bags.

Bellizare.5816:

Also, I found that it is a good idea to have a level 80 open the loot bags.

yes and no.
for the exotic drops, yes, 80 is best. But for 99% of the time when all you get is greens, ~lvl 50 might be best (for the cotton/linen/soft/seasoned/hard/iron/platinum instead of silk/mithril/elder). It’s up to you which is better, but it’s not as clear-cut as you say. The only thing that’s certain i that level 10 is definitely not what you want to be using.

Also, I might recommend that on your key farming character, you also collect a few of the easy skill points (and buy philosophers stones with them). Those can be converted into about 1-4g each. promoting to T2 refined basic materials is usually the best method.

Mystic.5934:

Bellizare.5816:

Also, I found that it is a good idea to have a level 80 open the loot bags.

yes and no.
for the exotic drops, yes, 80 is best. But for 99% of the time when all you get is greens, ~lvl 50 might be best (for the cotton/linen/soft/seasoned/hard/iron/platinum instead of silk/mithril/elder). It’s up to you which is better, but it’s not as clear-cut as you say. The only thing that’s certain i that level 10 is definitely not what you want to be using.

Also, I might recommend that on your key farming character, you also collect a few of the easy skill points (and buy philosophers stones with them). Those can be converted into about 1-4g each. promoting to T2 refined basic materials is usually the best method.

Great advice. Now I need a level 50 lol.

I usually grab those skill points out of habit. Never occurred to me to make gold off of them. I do a couple of key runs each week, just for the heck of it, and I kind of enjoy the NPE.

Thanks