Guild Wars 2

Are you certain they’re being relisted?

People do buy several a day.

I bought a Spark for over 500g about a week ago with a buy order. It’s gone, I made an Incinerator with it.

Quite frankly if someone has the kind of money to be fiddling with flipping precursors they could do a much higher return in other areas. Goofing around with buying precursors for 600g to put them up for 800g (680g back to them, after the 15% cut) and being undercut 15 times with having to relist being almost a certainty...not exactly a prime way to use your money.

Minion of Vey.4398:

Are you certain they’re being relisted?

People do buy several a day.

I bought a Spark for over 500g about a week ago with a buy order. It’s gone, I made an Incinerator with it.

Quite frankly if someone has the kind of money to be fiddling with flipping precursors they could do a much higher return in other areas. Goofing around with buying precursors for 600g to put them up for 800g and be undercut 15 times isn’t exactly a prime way to use money.

The amount of profit with that can easily be done elsewhere. That’s why it’s silly to say that all the precursors are owned by market manipulators. If they were, they’d be listed a LOT higher.

Esplen.3940:

Minion of Vey.4398:

Are you certain they’re being relisted?

People do buy several a day.

I bought a Spark for over 500g about a week ago with a buy order. It’s gone, I made an Incinerator with it.

Quite frankly if someone has the kind of money to be fiddling with flipping precursors they could do a much higher return in other areas. Goofing around with buying precursors for 600g to put them up for 800g and be undercut 15 times isn’t exactly a prime way to use money.

The amount of profit with that can easily be done elsewhere. That’s why it’s silly to say that all the precursors are owned by market manipulators. If they were, they’d be listed a LOT higher.

Exactly. More profit in fact. With much less risk.

Esplen.3940:

Minion of Vey.4398:

Are you certain they’re being relisted?

People do buy several a day.

I bought a Spark for over 500g about a week ago with a buy order. It’s gone, I made an Incinerator with it.

Quite frankly if someone has the kind of money to be fiddling with flipping precursors they could do a much higher return in other areas. Goofing around with buying precursors for 600g to put them up for 800g and be undercut 15 times isn’t exactly a prime way to use money.

The amount of profit with that can easily be done elsewhere. That’s why it’s silly to say that all the precursors are owned by market manipulators. If they were, they’d be listed a LOT higher.

Its a lot easier to blame someone for high prices than to accept that rare items like precursors have a high value resulting from medium demand and very low supply.

If all the precursor markets were controlled by goldsellers- as a lot of the people here mention- I am sure Anet would be happy.
They would simply have to check those who put up sell listings for the precursors again and again and ban them again and again. Would save them a ton of work.

From the replies of John Smith in this forum you can see that he is watching the precursor sells/buys actively.

Esplen.3940:

Unspecified.9142:

-snip-

The reason why we ignored your post is because you unintentionally advocated us. There’s a reason why the people who went to argue your reasoning were the people whose side you were on. I don’t see how your points go and benefit the side that says Precursors lolomfgneed2beasier

I suppose I am arguing a slightly different point than most.

I’m not opposed to the difficulty but rather the method of acquisition. I suspect that’s actually the problem many have and why there aren’t as many arguments over the other parts of the legendary.

T6 mats, Lodestones, Badges, etc… are all acquired incrementally rather than a binary system.

While the amount of effort required to get 100 Charged Lodestones might be roughly equal to the amount of effort required to get a precursor the method of acquisition is different.

You can easily get 1 Charged Lodestone a day and in 100 days you’ll be done. That’s a long arduous process but every day you KNOW you are making progress.

You can easily thrown 1 set of rares in the Mystic Forge a day and you might well get a legendary on day 100. That’s an equally long arduous process but every day you are not any closer than the day before. You KNOW you are NOT making progress. It’s just another day another failure.

I suspect the issue many have isn’t actually the time, or the gold, or the work required. Rather the issue is simply the way it makes people feel while pursuing it. The pursuit of a precursor through RNG is a very demoralizing and emotionally painful process for a lot of people. The repeated dashing of hope is not something people enjoy experiencing over and over again.

Lodestones and such don’t share that same problem because of the incremental process. It’s the very reason so many people look to the TP instead. By purchasing through the TP they can use gold as a measure of incremental progress. Unfortunately the constantly inflating prices produces a similar sensation of dashed hopes because someone keeps moving the goal post.

Depending how fast you are earning money it’s entirely possible that the price is inflating at the same rate or faster than you earn money. This results in a feeling that no progress has been made or that the goal posts have actually moved further away.

People really want, or even need, to feel like they are making progress. Even if the actual amount of time, energy, and work remains the same under a new system people would feel significantly better about it if they could see their progress in an clear and substantial way (like lodestones).

Unspecified.9142:

Esplen.3940:

Unspecified.9142:

-snip-

The reason why we ignored your post is because you unintentionally advocated us. There’s a reason why the people who went to argue your reasoning were the people whose side you were on. I don’t see how your points go and benefit the side that says Precursors lolomfgneed2beasier

You can easily get 1 Charged Lodestone a day and in 100 days you’ll be done. That’s a long arduous process but every day you KNOW you are making progress.
.

On average you make 1 loadstone per hour. You can also make 6g per hour.
There I also know I am making progress and I will be finnished in the same time span.

That it feels more unrewarding for you to collect the gold- its effectively the same. If you grind for gold to buy precursors or for lodestones.
I’d even go as far as to say that grinding the gold is more enjoyable as there would be many ways (beside the tp) to grind.
Lodestones are only dropped in certain areas.

@Unspecified

I think you’ve finally hit the nail on the head. It’s not the fact that there IS RNG….it’s the way people feel about it.

While yes….I did try to derail the thread earlier with a My Little Pony picture, a reasoned argument such as yours hadn’t existed in quite a while. As Esplen stated, you unintentionally agreed with some of the points we were trying to make to other people.

Your data regarding Bag of Skritt Shinies and Silver Doubloons was spot on as well. You provided and explanation of your view, with supporting data. Again, something others weren’t doing. They were speculating wildly.

I think that’s why ArenaNet mentioned they’re planning to put in a scavenger hunt for precursors. At least with that, people will begin to “feel” that they are progressing toward it.

I have a bad feeling, however, that no matter how they implement the scavenger hunt, people will still complain about it. It’s either going to be too easy or too hard.

So, even adding yet another way to get a precursor, players still won’t be happy.

Put in a buy order 1c above the next highest buy order and you’ll get it filled eventually (assuming you always stay 1c ahead). The sell listings are not the only precursors being moved through the market.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

@Unspecified

I think you’ve finally hit the nail on the head. It’s not the fact that there IS RNG….it’s the way people feel about it.

While yes….I did try to derail the thread earlier with a My Little Pony picture, a reasoned argument such as yours hadn’t existed in quite a while. As Esplen stated, you unintentionally agreed with some of the points we were trying to make to other people.

Your data regarding Bag of Skritt Shinies and Silver Doubloons was spot on as well. You provided and explanation of your view, with supporting data. Again, something others weren’t doing. They were speculating wildly.

I think that’s why ArenaNet mentioned they’re planning to put in a scavenger hunt for precursors. At least with that, people will begin to “feel” that they are progressing toward it.

I have a bad feeling, however, that no matter how they implement the scavenger hunt, people will still complain about it. It’s either going to be too easy or too hard.

So, even adding yet another way to get a precursor, players still won’t be happy.

I hope it’s too hard. It should be another method for acquisition, not a main method. There should not be a main method.

Esplen.3940:

I hope it’s too hard. It should be another method for acquisition, not a main method. There should not be a main method.

I hope it’s too hard too. Well….maybe not too hard, but have it take a few months to complete.

I’d like to have something to work toward as well.

It will be, of that I have no doubt. That said, if you want your precursor now, you need to get it in the ways that are available now. If you’re willing to wait for a scavenger hunt, more power to you. It gives you a chance to earn a lot of money in the meantime.

Esplen.3940:

I hope it’s too hard. It should be another method for acquisition, not a main method. There should not be a main method.

Weeeell.

There always will be a “best” method, based on how easy it is. It’s hard to make everything really “equal.”

Thing is with the MF vs the TP, you’re trading risk for certainty. Like you’d be crazy to toss in rare spears to get the precursor, but once prices are high, I imagine it’s about equal (The expected values of putting in rares into MF forge vs just purchasing it outright).

With the scavenger hunt though, it’s going to be a certainty, like the TP. The challenge is how to balance those two time wise. Depending on how they balance it, one of them will be “better” and thus the “main” method for farming.

If this makes sense to you.

I worked toward my precursor by earning gold and getting it that way. It was nothing I wasn’t expecting, and nothing I wasn’t prepared to pay. That you disagree with gold being something you can work towards is odd, but entirely your prerogative.

Unspecified.9142:

People really want, or even need, to feel like they are making progress. Even if the actual amount of time, energy, and work remains the same under a new system people would feel significantly better about it if they could see their progress in an clear and substantial way (like lodestones).

It’s interesting you phrase it like that. I’ve read articles about modern video game psychology. At a very basic level, games are designed to addict you to “progress” and “achievement.” Once addicted, by say, letting you get to level 10 quickly, they can reduce the pace of these achievements.

The argument in this thread, as I see it, is whether precursors’ ultra-rarity represents such a departure from this reward dynamic that it is fundamentally disturbing to players’ expectations. Can a thusly addicted gamer really be expected to go maybe 100 game hours (500g precursor = 100 hours of farming, obviously very rough estimates) without a reward? Is this a satisfactory endgame? Are we seeing achievement-addicts rebel?

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.

1. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?

1. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

1- Any non-MMO. MMO’s do it incorrectly. Which was one of the main selling points of GW2. Fixing the mistakes of the past.

2- Chance has nothing to do with working harder. If you get rewarded the first try and I don’t get it after 10, did you or I work harder?

3- There is not an NPC that sells precursors.

1. Any? I seem to recall Skyrim having a terrible conversion rate. Also, this IS an MMO… therefore it’s comparable to other… MMO’s.
2. Neither of us worked harder, however are you going to stop because I did? That’s where working harder to achieve it comes it. If you give up, that’s your call, however you’re not supposed to give up until you achieve what you want or are done.
3. There is.

1- If you want a normal MMO, there are hundreds. This was supposed to be the refuge and it was marketing as such.

2- If one person gets a reward far faster than someone else for the same effort, one worked harder than the other. By denying this, it’s proving that you are just being argumentative.

3- There is not.

Destroyer.1306:

Unspecified.9142:

People really want, or even need, to feel like they are making progress. Even if the actual amount of time, energy, and work remains the same under a new system people would feel significantly better about it if they could see their progress in an clear and substantial way (like lodestones).

It’s interesting you phrase it like that. I’ve read articles about modern video game psychology. At a very basic level, games are designed to addict you to “progress” and “achievement.” Once addicted, by say, letting you get to level 10 quickly, they can reduce the pace of these achievements.

The argument in this thread, as I see it, is whether precursors’ ultra-rarity represents such a departure from this reward dynamic that it is fundamentally disturbing to players’ expectations. Can a thusly addicted gamer really be expected to go maybe 100 game hours (500g precursor = 100 hours of farming, obviously very rough estimates) without a reward? Is this a satisfactory endgame? Are we seeing achievement-addicts rebel?

The problem is not the 100 hours of farming. It’s the fact that what they believe is 100 hours of farming is simply 100 hours of playing versus 100 hours of… well, farming.

^@ Geikamir, just wanted to address your #2, but…

If someone gets lucky, he got lucky. But he also had to deal with the risk of gambling too.

Unfair? Perhaps. But the fact of the matter is that person had to take the risk. That is a gutsy decision especially when compared to the certainty of buying it off the TP, because while you can get lucky you can also get unlucky.

I work. I save up a little each day. I will never be as wealthy as those Powerball winners though. Do I think it’s unfair?

Not really, because for every winner, there’s millions of losers. I’m happy to stick with my slow progress and certain rewards. When you talk about RNG, you have to talk about both the winning side and the losing side.

^ Thanks for helping me point that out.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.
2. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?
3. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

1- Any non-MMO. MMO’s do it incorrectly. Which was one of the main selling points of GW2. Fixing the mistakes of the past.

2- Chance has nothing to do with working harder. If you get rewarded the first try and I don’t get it after 10, did you or I work harder?

3- There is not an NPC that sells precursors.

1. Any? I seem to recall Skyrim having a terrible conversion rate. Also, this IS an MMO… therefore it’s comparable to other… MMO’s.
2. Neither of us worked harder, however are you going to stop because I did? That’s where working harder to achieve it comes it. If you give up, that’s your call, however you’re not supposed to give up until you achieve what you want or are done.
3. There is.

1- If you want a normal MMO, there are hundreds. This was supposed to be the refuge and it was marketing as such.

2- If one person gets a reward far faster than someone else for the same effort, one worked harder than the other. By denying this, it’s proving that you are just being argumentative.

3- There is not.

1. You’re still avoiding the question. This game has lower RNG than any MMO I can name. If you can name one that has less than GW2, again, please NAME THEM don’t just avoid the question.
2. And for every one person that wins, there are hundreds that lose. It’s a gamble in a game, what do you expect? You keep saying you know it’s unfair, so what do you want done? You want a fair method? The fair method is to buy it with gold. Oh, it’s outrageously priced? Then take the gamble. Oh, it’s unfair? Then don’t get a Legendary.
3. Well, what would you do if there was an NPC that sold Precursors for 10,000g? You keep going back to an NPC that will solve all of the problems, but it really won’t. It won’t solve any problem unless it was priced at a price that would force Precursors (and Legendaries, in turn) to become worthless items. Next, you’re going to want an NPC to sell Giant’s Eyes since they’re such a rare drop… oh and Lodestones, because we need those, too.

Ursan.7846:

^@ Geikamir, just wanted to address your #2, but…

If someone gets lucky, he got lucky. But he also had to deal with the risk of gambling too.

Unfair? Perhaps. But the fact of the matter is that person had to take the risk. That is a gutsy decision especially when compared to the certainty of buying it off the TP, because while you can get lucky you can also get unlucky.

I work. I save up a little each day. I will never be as wealthy as those Powerball winners though. Do I think it’s unfair?

Not really, because for every winner, there’s millions of losers. I’m happy to stick with my slow progress and certain rewards. When you talk about RNG, you have to talk about both the winning side and the losing side.

Yes, it’s unfair. And that is my entire point.

Also, people that bought a precursor at a cheaper rate before got their legendary for significantly less money than someone just now coming to the game. That is also unfair and not fun.

Esplen.3940:

^ Thanks for helping me point that out.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

Geikamir.6329:

The game doesn’t NEED anything technically. I’m just claiming that it’s not fair nor fun. Both things of which I should be required to make a good game.

Also, it’s not about working harder. Chance has nothing to do with working harder.

If there was an NPC with a set precursor price your point would be valid.

1. Name a game where the best gear cannot be grinded for as the only method to get it is fun. Now, if you can do that, tell me why you aren’t playing that game.
2. Chance has everything to do with working harder. If you have a 1/10 chance of getting something, are you going to give up after failing once?
3. There is an NPC. He sells Precursors for 10,000g. Why waste your gold when you can buy it on the Trading Post.

1- Any non-MMO. MMO’s do it incorrectly. Which was one of the main selling points of GW2. Fixing the mistakes of the past.

2- Chance has nothing to do with working harder. If you get rewarded the first try and I don’t get it after 10, did you or I work harder?

3- There is not an NPC that sells precursors.

1. Any? I seem to recall Skyrim having a terrible conversion rate. Also, this IS an MMO… therefore it’s comparable to other… MMO’s.
2. Neither of us worked harder, however are you going to stop because I did? That’s where working harder to achieve it comes it. If you give up, that’s your call, however you’re not supposed to give up until you achieve what you want or are done.
3. There is.

1- If you want a normal MMO, there are hundreds. This was supposed to be the refuge and it was marketing as such.

2- If one person gets a reward far faster than someone else for the same effort, one worked harder than the other. By denying this, it’s proving that you are just being argumentative.

3- There is not.

1. You’re still avoiding the question. This game has lower RNG than any MMO I can name. If you can name one that has less than GW2, again, please NAME THEM don’t just avoid the question.
2. And for every one person that wins, there are hundreds that lose. It’s a gamble in a game, what do you expect? You keep saying you know it’s unfair, so what do you want done? You want a fair method? The fair method is to buy it with gold. Oh, it’s outrageously priced? Then take the gamble. Oh, it’s unfair? Then don’t get a Legendary.
3. Well, what would you do if there was an NPC that sold Precursors for 10,000g? You keep going back to an NPC that will solve all of the problems, but it really won’t. It won’t solve any problem unless it was priced at a price that would force Precursors (and Legendaries, in turn) to become worthless items. Next, you’re going to want an NPC to sell Giant’s Eyes since they’re such a rare drop… oh and Lodestones, because we need those, too.

1- If I shot you with a pistol instead of a shotgun, would you suddenly enjoy it just because the dmg was less? No, it’s still painful.

2- I don’t think there should be such extremes with the gamble. That is the entire problem. Small terms RNG is able to be dealt with. Extremely large risk for extremely large reward is ONLY fun for the very small select few that are lucky. That is not fun for the majority of the playerbase. Hence: it’s bad design.

3- If an NPC sold precursors for 10k gold and that was the only way to obtain them, it would be better than it is now. It would be a long term goal that doesn’t change when a player gets close. And everyone gets it at the same price.

Geikamir.6329:

Yes, it’s unfair. And that is my entire point.

Also, people that bought a precursor at a cheaper rate before got their legendary for significantly less money than someone just now coming to the game. That is also unfair and not fun.

If it’s so unfair and un-fun, then why are you trying to get a Legendary? Why are you even playing Guild Wars 2?

It sounds like you don’t even like the game….or at least this aspect of it. If you dislike it so much, no one is forcing you to play it…or go for a Legendary.

You continually avoid Esplen’s questions, yet say that other games are more fair. Please provide us with an example, data, or ANYTHING that backs up your statements. I’m sure we’d all like to know.

^@ Esplen, no need to be condescending.

But if you think it’s truly that unfair, just think of precursors as rewarding luck, on top of time and dedication then. Because ultimately, it doesn’t affect you.

Though we’d like to think we can achieve everything through work, work, and work alone, great successes in life almost always involves a mix of luck, talent, and dedication.

Anet obviously wanted to reward luck also, on top of effort and dedication (Hence the Mystic CLOVERS.) So there you go, unless they change their design philosophy, I imagine they will continue to reward luck (as practically every game with random loot drops do.)

http://www.nerfnow.com/comic/image/459

Geikamir.6329:

3- If an NPC sold precursors for 10k gold and that was the only way to obtain them, it would be better than it is now. It would be a long term goal that doesn’t change when a player gets close. And everyone gets it at the same price.

Just want to mention on the subject of the price inflation of Precursors… i.e., the moving target issue. Everything inflates over time. This means that anything you farm that isn’t a direct money reward or an item to be vendored also increases over time. So, suppose approximately half of your income from farming comes from the TP and half from the vendor. Then you can expect that the inflation will benefit that half of your farming income that benefits from the inflated prices. I.e., your rares and T6 mats will keep pace with the inflation of Precursors.

And if you are wise enough to hang on to your TP-able items until the moment you are ready to spend the gold (as opposed to constantly exchanging those farmed items for a devaluing currency), you will be even better off.

I’m just saying this so those losing hope over farming for Precursors don’t feel disheartened. It’s a moving target, yes, but your farming time is gaining value over time as well — though at a slower pace due to vendor trash.

Geikamir.6329:

I’m not going for a legendary. I have enough money to buy one right off the TP at this moment, easily. That’s not the point. I have a problem with the design for the people that do want one.

If you’re not going for a Legendary, then why do you even care? This part of the game has zero impact on you, but you’re complaining about it?

That doesn’t even make sense.

Destroyer.1306:

Geikamir.6329:

3- If an NPC sold precursors for 10k gold and that was the only way to obtain them, it would be better than it is now. It would be a long term goal that doesn’t change when a player gets close. And everyone gets it at the same price.

Just want to mention on the subject of the price inflation of Precursors… i.e., the moving target issue. Everything inflates over time. This means that anything you farm that isn’t a direct money reward or an item to be vendored also increases over time. So, suppose approximately half of your income from farming comes from the TP and half from the vendor. Then you can expect that the inflation will benefit that half of your farming income that benefits from the inflated prices. I.e., your rares and T6 mats will keep pace with the inflation of Precursors.

And if you are wise enough to hang on to your TP-able items until the moment you are ready to spend the gold (as opposed to constantly exchanging those farmed items for a devaluing currency), you will be even better off.

I’m just saying this so those losing hope over farming for Precursors don’t feel disheartened. It’s a moving target, yes, but your farming time is gaining value over time as well — though at a slower pace due to vendor trash.

It’s not natural inflation. John Smith has said many times inflation is not rampant in this game. The prices for things like exotics and rares fluctuates with the price of ectos, but stays at a similar rate as near launch.

Precursors are different. They are controlled specifically and directly by the players. The price increases happen far faster than a LARGE majority of players could ever obtain the gold to buy one.

No one likes the goal post to keep being pushed out of their reach. Except for the sellers.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Geikamir.6329:

I’m not going for a legendary. I have enough money to buy one right off the TP at this moment, easily. That’s not the point. I have a problem with the design for the people that do want one.

If you’re not going for a Legendary, then why do you even care? This part of the game has zero impact on you, but you’re complaining about it?

That doesn’t even make sense.

Not everyone has to be a victim to see injustice.

It’s not “injust” at all. It is a long-term goal but a lot of people think that a long-term goal means 1-4 weeks.

Geikamir.6329:

If you gamble for a precursor you can spend often 600+ gold with no success. The chance is too small and the reward is too large. It’s just not conducive to fun for anyone but the lucky.

I disagree that you can “often” go 600g in investment and not see a precursor. Will it happen to people royally, royally screwed by RNG? Yes, but those are the extreme outliers.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

2/20 assuming the odds for precursors are same as any other exotic, which i highly doubt.

You are also gonna most likely lose 3/4’s of your investment everytime, not to mention you.

If it was anywhere near as predictable as you seem to think it is Iures, the prices of dusk and dawn would be no where what they are today, because the market would be overflooded with them.

The prices are where they are because they’re the most demanded and hardest to get of the most used weapon type in the game, and people are risk-averse. Quite frankly, if I had enough money to buy Dawn or Dusk, I’d have enough money to forge one and sell what’s left.

Esplen.3940:

It’s not “injust” at all. It is a long-term goal but a lot of people think that a long-term goal means 1-4 weeks.

You just invented that time frame as a way to straw man this in a different direction.

Geikamir.6329:

Esplen.3940:

It’s not “injust” at all. It is a long-term goal but a lot of people think that a long-term goal means 1-4 weeks.

You just invented that time frame as a way to straw man this in a different direction.

I would believe that if I hadn’t seen people actually say “I was hoping to get it within a month.”

LOL – 1 dusk on the TP at 800 gold. Yeah, these prices aren’t out of whack. Wish I was around for the godskull exploit that they never banned ppl for or took away their precursors. This item itself has become as big of a joke as Anet.

Minion of Vey.4398:

Are you certain they’re being relisted?

People do buy several a day.

I bought a Spark for over 500g about a week ago with a buy order. It’s gone, I made an Incinerator with it.

Quite frankly if someone has the kind of money to be fiddling with flipping precursors they could do a much higher return in other areas. Goofing around with buying precursors for 600g to put them up for 800g (680g back to them, after the 15% cut) and being undercut 15 times with having to relist being almost a certainty…not exactly a prime way to use your money.

Yes they are. 800g now. But if the players arent dumb, we can make this price go down. Simply dont buy them. List an offer around 600g. Lets see what happen.

Iehova.9518:

They will get relisted at 800g a pop soon™ enough.

Give us a kitten deterministic way to obtain a precursor, no matter the difficulty.

lolololol Dusk at 800g now, are you hiding something?

Just as AreUMadBro said: everyone knew they’d go up. No surprise.

The thing is that people will still spend 800g on dusk. And as long as they will be, dusk will rise! I’d guess in a month or two without patch changes i see dusk ag 1200g

Humble advise to everyone that plans on getting dusk: use the mystic forge. Just keep flushing exotics… it seems rough but the prices are unacceptable if i was you i’d screw the other players and just try my luck ^^

Some precursors are manipulated some aren’t. The Colossus is manipulated, a week ago 11 were listed for 500g. Suddenly someome bought them all, 0 supply. Now they are getting relisted for 620.

And even if they are manipulated that’s the players good right. Please stop crying over it. If you don’t like it you don’t have to buy it from the tp…

Yeah just go gamble like everyone else, slackers.. tsktsk. rollseyes

Aralon.7501:

Some precursors are manipulated some aren’t. The Colossus is manipulated, a week ago 11 were listed for 500g. Suddenly someome bought them all, 0 supply. Now they are getting relisted for 620.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29170

Look at that and than at your post

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Yeah just go gamble like everyone else, slackers.. tsktsk. rollseyes

Well yes. If prices get high enough and assuming rares stay the same price, it becomes smarter to use the MF. Who knows, you might get lucky and get it on your 1st try!

Or you might not, I have been trying 5 times a day for weeks.

It never becomes smarter, but yes it has become the only feasible option, especially after dusks once again gotten pushed up 100g

Geikamir.6329:

3- If an NPC sold precursors for 10k gold and that was the only way to obtain them, it would be better than it is now. It would be a long term goal that doesn’t change when a player gets close. And everyone gets it at the same price.

Hahahahaha, good joke. I can’t imagine all the threads on the forum. For example “Anet only wants market manipulators to have a legendary”.

edit: Sadly had to edit out the tp-ones since he stated that it should be the only way to get em ;( , which seems rather ridiculous to me.

Lucas of the Desert.2165:

Just as AreUMadBro said: everyone knew they’d go up. No surprise.

The thing is that people will still spend 800g on dusk. And as long as they will be, dusk will rise! I’d guess in a month or two without patch changes i see dusk ag 1200g

Humble advise to everyone that plans on getting dusk: use the mystic forge. Just keep flushing exotics… it seems rough but the prices are unacceptable if i was you i’d screw the other players and just try my luck ^^

They go up in price if the precursor goes too. Just watch the prices, rares GS were 30silver, 35 maybe. Now, 50silver each.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Or you might not, I have been trying 5 times a day for weeks.

It never becomes smarter, but yes it has become the only feasible option, especially after dusks once again gotten pushed up 100g

Never? Say you have 2000 gold. Say a precursor costs 2000G on the TP, while rares are 20s. You can purchase 10000 rares to put in the MF. You’d be crazy not to do it, because the risk is greatly reduced due to the volume while the price of certainty is incredibly high.

You can still choose the TP if you really, really, really value certainty, sure. But it still makes MF the smarter route to go under those circumstances.

You do of course realise that rare weapons rise in tandem with precursors? and so do the materials to make them.

Infact It would seem the precursor price sets the price for rare weapons and the materials to make them..

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

You do of course realise that rare weapons rise in tandem with precursors? and so do the materials to make them.

Infact It would seem the precursor price sets the price for rares and the materials to make them..

Not necessarily in a 1:1 ratio. Precursors aren’t he only things rares (ectos) are used for.

Exactly, precursors are not the only thing they are connected to, the fact that they are also impacted by ecto prices is not a positive thing.

If someone is willing to pay 800g for my Dusk, why the heck would I bother to sell it for you folks asking for it cheaper?

I doubt anyone is expecting people to people to sell them at a lower value then what they are worth.

However when the average price seems like its being manipulated up by a group of people it becomes a problem, especially considering the general rarity of the item in question.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

Exactly, precursors are not the only thing they are connected to, the fact that they are also impacted by ecto prices is not a positive thing.

So…you’re agreeing with me?

1. Precursors aren’t the only use for rares
2. Precursor/rare price increase/decrease don’t happen in 1:1 ratio
3. Therefore it’s possible in some situations where the MF with rares is a “smarter choice” (situations where the percentage increase in precursor price is larger than the percentage increase in prices of rares)
4. Therefore your statement that it’s “never” smarter is false.

Kilrain Daggerspine.6843:

I doubt anyone is expecting people to people to sell them at a lower value then what they are worth.

However when the average price if manipulated up by a group of people it becomes a problem, especially considering the general rarity of the item in question.

And your evidence that the changing prices are a result of market manipulation is ???

goldi.3129:

Oglaf.1074:

They need a totally new way to obtain the Precursors, plain and simple.

Why? Everyone can get a legendary eventually.

If everyone had one the name legendary would not be fitting.

Quote:

dev q&a november 16th quote: With Isaiah Cartwright:

The gap we’ve talked about is more the game in time we everyone to have achievable goals that players can look forward to. Legendary are very long term goals and we want to make sure they are layered in with other interesting goals a player can accomplished while on their way to finishing a legendary.

I specially highlighted the quote.
Source :
http://www.guildwarsinsider.com/qa-with-isaiah-cartwright/

Wow, this goes totally against what I continually read here stated as fact – that only a minute percentage of the population is supposed to have one! They were the designed for only a selected few!