Guild Wars 2

Nightshade.5924:

See, again, flawed. Gems SHOW the relative value of gold in the exchange. Values ARE changing, usually on a daily basis. Don’t believe me, check the market for yourself.
Granted that the change isn’t usually all that much, but a month ago 100 gems was about 15 gold. This whole thing that I keep reading about “fixed amounts of gold in the exchange” is garbage on the face of it. Fixed amounts of Gems, that makes sense given the INFLATIONARY trend.

And my argument is to add more sinks. Because obviously the ones we have are NOT doing the job.

Ahem

John Smith.4610:

It’s working as intended.

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Nightshade.5924:

See, again, flawed. Gems SHOW the relative value of gold in the exchange. Values ARE changing, usually on a daily basis. Don’t believe me, check the market for yourself.
Granted that the change isn’t usually all that much, but a month ago 100 gems was about 15 gold. This whole thing that I keep reading about “fixed amounts of gold in the exchange” is garbage on the face of it. Fixed amounts of Gems, that makes sense given the INFLATIONARY trend.

And my argument is to add more sinks. Because obviously the ones we have are NOT doing the job.

Ahem

John Smith.4610:

It’s working as intended.

Yet the same JS quote that I’ve seen before. So that would mean that the system is designed to continually reduce the exchange power of Gold to Gems, which means that at some point in the future we will be paying 100 gold for 100 gems.

And this is as intended? Are you even paying attention? If the gold increase rate continues as it has for the last 18 months, then by the end of December we will be seeing 21 gold for 100 gems. It will be interesting to see if I’m right in that projection.

And that, according to you and JS, is the plan. Funny, I was under the impression that the GW staff didn’t want us to “grind”. Looks like we’re not going to have much of a choice.

Unless you’re willing to open ye old pocketbook, as some have suggested. Not going to happen.

Nightshade.5924:

Yet the same JS quote that I’ve seen before. So that would mean that the system is designed to continually reduce the exchange power of Gold to Gems, which means that at some point in the future we will be paying 100 gold for 100 gems.

If that happened you can buy a legendary for 40$ real money.

I’ll probably buy a legendary myself lol.

Ayrilana.1396:

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

laokoko.7403:

Nightshade.5924:

Yet the same JS quote that I’ve seen before. So that would mean that the system is designed to continually reduce the exchange power of Gold to Gems, which means that at some point in the future we will be paying 100 gold for 100 gems.

If that happened you can buy a legendary for 40$ real money.

I’ll probably buy a legendary myself lol.

Welllll…. given that there is a 30% ANET created gap when it comes to SELLING gems for gold… 100 gems would give you about 70 gold. So if Legendaries were still available in the TP, I remember them running about 2000 gold a pop minimum. HMMM.

So you’d need 2800 gems or so…. WOW. Holy cow. That’s LESS than $40 in fact, about $35 really.

Nice point!

Nightshade.5924:

How’s this? Why don’t you give us some ideas to help fix the GW economy?

I don’t see anything in need of fixing in the GW2 economy.

Nightshade.5924:

Teach me, o master.

If you put your ego down for a couple minutes I’d be happy to.

There’s already plenty posted in this thread to learn from, if you were so inclined.

—

EDIT – actually, I don’t like the 5% listing fee, it causes asymmetric risks, and the inefficiencies that come with it. From scratch, I’d prefer some model that makes use of, say, your account storage instead; items would stay locked in your storage while listed, until sold.

This removes the price risk when listing items, and aligns the storage pressure the other way – players have an incentive to sell to clear it from inventory instead of an incentive to leave an overpriced item up there to avoid paying another 5% fee.

This particular solution, however, is more technically challenging than the current model, and I would personally not bother with making a change in their position – the costs of switching to a new system 2 years into the game far outweigh the benefits to be gained by a slightly superior design.

Nightshade.5924:

Yet the same JS quote that I’ve seen before. So that would mean that the system is designed to continually reduce the exchange power of Gold to Gems, which means that at some point in the future we will be paying 100 gold for 100 gems.

And this is as intended? Are you even paying attention? If the gold increase rate continues as it has for the last 18 months, then by the end of December we will be seeing 21 gold for 100 gems. It will be interesting to see if I’m right in that projection.

And that, according to you and JS, is the plan. Funny, I was under the impression that the GW staff didn’t want us to “grind”. Looks like we’re not going to have much of a choice.

Unless you’re willing to open ye old pocketbook, as some have suggested. Not going to happen.

The system works because:

John Smith.4610:

It’s working as intended.

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

Was there a point to your post?

Nightshade.5924:

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

One important thing that’s often overlooked is that a lot of the gold these gold sellers sell has actually been STOLEN from hacked accounts. So if you purchase gold from these lowlifes, you are most likely profiting off the pain and misery of a legitimate player.

Yet another reason never to buy from gold sellers.

@nightshade

A couple of points. (Im not going to quote every post and response)
I may have been mistaken about a pool of gold in the exchange. Nonethless, there is a finite amount of gems. (Quotes from js confirm this). And buying gems with gold only increases the prices. This is intended. It may very well reach 100g for 100 gems at some point. Does this mean its broken? No. Does this mean there is “horrendous inflation” not at all. If we, as players, dont want to see prices get that high then we need to take action and convert gems to gold. Yeah it may not be as profitable, but its the only way to stop the price increase. Period.
Forcing to grind to get gold to afford gems? No not really. You can earn plenty of gold just playing the game and doing the things you enjoy. There is nothing about this game that requires a grind, and never will be.

And finally. Ive come to the conclusion that you just like to hear yourself speak. And bu trying to prove everybody wrong (including js) you’ve only managed to reveal your own stubborn ignorance on the subject.

Zaxares.5419:

Nightshade.5924:

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

One important thing that’s often overlooked is that a lot of the gold these gold sellers sell has actually been STOLEN from hacked accounts. So if you purchase gold from these lowlifes, you are most likely profiting off the pain and misery of a legitimate player.

Yet another reason never to buy from gold sellers.

Fully agree. Let the buyer beware shouldst he deal with gold sellers.

Ayrilana.1396:

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

Was there a point to your post?

One wonders at the education of youth these days. Explicitly, why would I buy gems from ANET when it is “potentially” possible to get MORE gold by purchasing it from a gold seller?

“Shakes head”.

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

Was there a point to your post?

One wonders at the education of youth these days. Explicitly, why would I buy gems from ANET when it is “potentially” possible to get MORE gold by purchasing it from a gold seller?

“Shakes head”.

possible of scam or get your account banned?

I bought gold from gold seller before in other games. Obviously you get more gold for the bucks. But it is much safer to buy it from the company directly.

Ensign.2189:

Nightshade.5924:

How’s this? Why don’t you give us some ideas to help fix the GW economy?

I don’t see anything in need of fixing in the GW2 economy.

Nightshade.5924:

Teach me, o master.

If you put your ego down for a couple minutes I’d be happy to.

There’s already plenty posted in this thread to learn from, if you were so inclined.

.

Read the thread, thanks very much. Still waiting for you to AWE us lowly peons with your salient points. Maybe you haven’t because you can’t?

And you must of missed my comment about 21 gold for 100 gems by end of Dec. or the comment about 100 gold for 100 gems. If that doesn’t bother you, then I have this fantastic bridge that I would LOVE to sell you.

Nightshade.5924:

John Smith has said it is so, and thus it MUST be true. It MUST be correct.

Very circular of you. So if I was JS, you’d just give me all of your gold? After all, he MUST have a good reason to ask you for it, right?

John doesn’t ask for my Gold. I freely give it to him, along with my wallet. This is because I understand how the game economy works, and have no problems dropping hundreds of Gold on useless skins just to get my Fashion Collector title. And when he brings out more epic items in the Gem Store, I’ll be buying more Gems with my creditcard. It’s an endless cycle of happiness for both me and Anet.

laokoko.7403:

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

Was there a point to your post?

One wonders at the education of youth these days. Explicitly, why would I buy gems from ANET when it is “potentially” possible to get MORE gold by purchasing it from a gold seller?

“Shakes head”.

possible of scam or get your account banned?

I bought gold from gold seller before in other games. Obviously you get more gold for the bucks. But it is much safer to buy it from the company directly.

Again, fully agree. I really don’t need my credit cards messed w/, my game account messed w/, etc. But that’s ME. Others may be willing to run the risk. YOU did elsewhere!

Nightshade.5924:

laokoko.7403:

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

Nightshade.5924:

Ayrilana.1396:

John Smith.4610:

John Smith.4610:

As a quick aside. Gems in the currency exchange are finite. You may buy gems with real money to your hearts content, but if you don’t put any of them gems into the currency exchange the currency exchange’s stock of gems never changes.

John Smith.4610:

Think of it this way. The government can print as much money as they want, that doesn’t mean your bank account has access to that money. The currency exchange does not have access to gem creation. It has a limited stock that players add and subtract from.

Ok. So I go ahead and drop $10 and get 800 gems. I then take my new gems and turn them into gold. Wait…

The exchange rate I wrote down earlier today was 100 gems turning into 12.16 gold. So 800 gems thus gets me 97.28 gold.

Now the last time I saw a gold spam it was for something like 100 gold for $10. HMMM.

So if I’m willing to take a risk, be stupid, or whatever you want to call it, I can get More gold from the spammers than I can from ANET.

Interesting, Yes? So I’ve said this before… WHY would I EVER trade gems for gold? There’s no profit in it for me. In fact, one heck of a loss as the system sits.

Question: What’s to stop ANET from dumping, oh say, One Million Gems into the pot?

Well?

Was there a point to your post?

One wonders at the education of youth these days. Explicitly, why would I buy gems from ANET when it is “potentially” possible to get MORE gold by purchasing it from a gold seller?

“Shakes head”.

possible of scam or get your account banned?

I bought gold from gold seller before in other games. Obviously you get more gold for the bucks. But it is much safer to buy it from the company directly.

Again, fully agree. I really don’t need my credit cards messed w/, my game account messed w/, etc. But that’s ME. Others may be willing to run the risk. YOU did elsewhere!

I think more than anything most games dont’ allow you to buy gold from the company directly, that’s why I took the risk.

For games that I can buy gold from the company directly, I usually just buy it from the company.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Nightshade.5924:

John Smith has said it is so, and thus it MUST be true. It MUST be correct.

Very circular of you. So if I was JS, you’d just give me all of your gold? After all, he MUST have a good reason to ask you for it, right?

John doesn’t ask for my Gold. I freely give it to him, along with my wallet. This is because I understand how the game economy works, and have no problems dropping hundreds of Gold on useless skins just to get my Fashion Collector title. And when he brings out more epic items in the Gem Store, I’ll be buying more Gems with my creditcard. It’s an endless cycle of happiness for both me and Anet.

You’re avoiding the point. You, and everyone else here, are Treating JS like the Pope speaking ex cathedra. He can do NO wrong in your eyes.

But wait. He’s a guy. He’s human. To err is to be human. So your error is the assumption of JS’s total perfection. We all can make mistakes. Yours may be all the cash you’re giving to ANET.

@nightshade

I think you are avoiding the point. In our conversations with JS, we have been assured and taught the finer points of the gem exchange, and the gw2 economy as a whole. So when he says its working as intended and that there is no inflation and that the gem exchange is not an indicator of inflation, there has not been any reason not to take him at his word. You are basing all your arguments on the assumption that JS is incompetent, or lying to us. We are not saying he can do no wrong. What we are saying, is that with our own understanding of the game economics, and with the insight and information provided by JS who actually has the numbers, and the metrics, and the knowledge, that you are completely wrong in your assumption and perception of a broken and inflated economy.
Why would Anet knowingly and willingly LIE to their players? They have much to lose if they did, up to and including lawsuits. So calling the economy director a liar, or a fool, is not a good way to try to make your point. Calling us liars and fools places you in a position of a child throwing a tantrum. It makes you look silly.

So everything you say is only going to be lookes at as a spoiled child throwing a fit, no one will take you seriously, no one will want to try to discuss anything with you, or try to show you reason. In the end you’ve only hurt amd embarrassed yourself.
The only reason we are still iin this thread is for our own amusement and lack of anything better to do. You’ve not won the argument, you’ve not proven your point, you’ve only highlighted your own ignorance and willfull stubbornness.

pdavis.8031:

@nightshade

I think you are avoiding the point. In our conversations with JS, we have been assured and taught the finer points of the gem exchange, and the gw2 economy as a whole. So when he says its working as intended and that there is no inflation and that the gem exchange is not an indicator of inflation, there has not been any reason not to take him at his word. You are basing all your arguments on the assumption that JS is incompetent, or lying to us. We are not saying he can do no wrong. What we are saying, is that with our own understanding of the game economics, and with the insight and information provided by JS who actually has the numbers, and the metrics, and the knowledge, that you are completely wrong in your assumption and perception of a broken and inflated economy.
Why would Anet knowingly and willingly LIE to their players? They have much to lose if they did, up to and including lawsuits. So calling the economy director a liar, or a fool, is not a good way to try to make your point. Calling us liars and fools places you in a position of a child throwing a tantrum. It makes you look silly.

So everything you say is only going to be lookes at as a spoiled child throwing a fit, no one will take you seriously, no one will want to try to discuss anything with you, or try to show you reason. In the end you’ve only hurt amd embarrassed yourself.
The only reason we are still iin this thread is for our own amusement and lack of anything better to do. You’ve not won the argument, you’ve not proven your point, you’ve only highlighted your own ignorance and willfull stubbornness.

Have you heard of a game called STO? SWTOR? Let me know.

What precisely STOPS ANET from lying? I refer you to those two games as proof that devs DO lie, and have been caught. And yet those games are still in business. The devs in question, to the best of my knowledge, still work in their respective companies. Oh, and I must have missed it in the Journal when they were sued.

I have never said that JS was incompetent etc. Yet here you are again defending him. Awfully nice of you. I’ve never said that he was a liar either. And I have never called you fools either. That would be YOU.

I just can’t get past the FACT that 18 months ago 100 gems were about 2 gold, and now they’re 17 gold. You can put up any argument you want, but that gold is an INTEGRAL part of the basic GW economy. It buys everything. Yet while BLM prices have remained remarkably stable, gold to gems just keeps going up and up.

So let’s try this… when gold to gems hits 21 in December, maybe you’ll reconsider the facts. I mean, if the economy is stable and working, this increase should not occur. Gold sinks should be helping to keep it stable. Players should be buying gems and converting them into gold keeping the exchange rate in check.

At least that’s what you’ve been saying. Or am I mistaken?

Nightshade.5924:

At least that’s what you’ve been saying. Or am I mistaken?

You’re mistaken. Don’t worry about it.

Since this topic has derailed quite a bit it is now closed.