Guild Wars 2

But you knew going in that it was a lottery ticket. And now if you win and use it you have it forever available on every character you have or ever create.

If you don’t want it you can sell it for gold and maybe break even, assuming the gems you used to buy it was bought with gold.

Yes – I did know going in it was a lottery ticket.

Just not a ticket I’m buying again.

I’m providing the feedback that I would love to buy the dye from the gemstore, but that I do not want lottery tickets.

Yes but if it wasn’t a lottery ticket they would then have to charge more for the new dyes.

Buying the 5 pack for 500 gems, with 6 out of 25 chance, assuming an evenly weighted probability, you have a 74.6% chance of getting at least 1 new dye. The average is 1.2 per 5 pack but you still have a 1 in 4 chance of getting nothing.

So would you be happy with a price between 420 and 520 gems per new dye? I’m sure the “What? $5 for a dye!” cry would be heard far and wide. Of course that’s true either way but the RNG way you feel lucky if it cost you less.

Well you know, there is always the chance that they could NOT be 500 per new dye, and more people might be interested in buying them.

But the allure of “luck” makes people spend more than a straight up price. Also if the item is too affordable it’s more likely that a player will convert gold rather than spend cash to get the gems required. Also the new account bound status of dyes means a player wouldn’t need to buy as many.

Everything on the Gem Shop boils down to “ANet needs players to buy gems with cash”. It’s the reason how items are priced, that some of the cheaper ones are RNG and why the exchange is structured to increase the cost of gems in gold as more are bought with gold.

Euler.3259:

maybe if more people posted this complaint, there would be a chance of change.

When they sell 50,000 units in a week, how many complaints are necessary to convince them this is bad?

Grind gold, buy the exact dye you want from the TP.

Don’t gamble unless you love to gamble. Some people love the lottery, some people don’t. If you don’t you’re better off using gems to buy gold and then buying the dye.

- I love the dyes,
- don’t got the gold or the time to farm gold,
- don’t have enough real money to gamble/convert
looks like I’m going to miss out

guess it would be too much to ask for the dye packs to just come with all of new dyes… (and to have them be account bound to avoid trade/profit/etc.)

I would much rather pay a set price for the dye, Someone suggest 500 per dye. I might not buy all of them but I would buy some of them. I will not buy RNG chances.

Euler.3259:

Yes – I did know going in it was a lottery ticket.

Just not a ticket I’m buying again.

I’m providing the feedback that I would love to buy the dye from the gemstore, but that I do not want lottery tickets.

You’re not the first to give said feed back.

Unfortunately, for every person who is smart enough to not engage in buying a gem shop lottery ticket there are plenty more that basically negate that one person. As long as it rakes in the cash, they won’t change it.

KOPPER.1458:

I would much rather pay a set price for the dye, Someone suggest 500 per dye. I might not buy all of them but I would buy some of them. I will not buy RNG chances.

If you want Enameled Perseverance Dye, it does have a set price [right now] of 33g 49s.

Right now, 33g 49s costs ~520 gems to buy. Congratulations!

Crimsonlicious!!!!! Jus love that amazing dye, farming for it! ????

“If you want Enameled Perseverance Dye, it does have a set price [right now] of 33g 49s.

Right now, 33g 49s costs ~520 gems to buy. Congratulations!"

That isn’t a set price. That price will change. I assume you know that though.

CJ just countered the OP with facts, and made his complaint look silly. You must be taking a page out of John’s books.

Nah, for me the logic is given when anyone mentions the TP. Doesn’t matter if the gold was earned in game or through conversion. People are asking for a different service. They are asking to be able to buy it directly instead of going through distribution. Not that I think that will ever happen unless people en masse refuse to buy the random kits and refrain from obtaining them through the TP. This would require a unity that we don’t have since some (not quantifying this) like the concept.

KOPPER.1458:

“If you want Enameled Perseverance Dye, it does have a set price [right now] of 33g 49s.

Right now, 33g 49s costs ~520 gems to buy. Congratulations!"

That isn’t a set price. That price will change. I assume you know that though.

True [hence the “right now” part]. Once you buy it [and then use it], though, it doesn’t matter that the price changes, you already have it unlocked for your whole account.

tolunart.2095:

Every.

Single.

Time.

Dyes.

Are.

Sold.

In.

The.

Gem.

Store.

Someone.

Posts.

This.

Same.

Complaint.

why so angry

Look, I for one am grateful to all the gamblers and whales. It means I can buy dyes for cheap with my in-game gold after a couple weeks as sellers rapidly undercut each other.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

It surprises me sometimes that for all the talk of converting gold to gems nobody ever offers the other direction as a solution. Enameled dyes can be bought directly using gems if you go through the exchange.

As of this morning the range is:

• Enameled Legacy Dye ~190 gems.
• Enameled Crimson Dye ~1100 gems.

No randomness required.

edit: Lol – Raistlan did the thing i said nobody did, beat me to it

But that isn’t what I was proposing in my post or what other players are necessarily asking for. Those are not set prices. They will change and fluctuate. As you’ve shown, some dyes will be cheap and some will be overly priced. Is this really the solution to RNG dye packs? Buy gems, convert to gold and buy what you want from the TP.

I don’t know the metrics, my guess is RNG dye packs sell really well. This is why we keep seeing them and will continue to see them. It’s no surprise that with every release of these RNG packs players get nothing new for their gems and feel ripped off even though they knew they were buying a chance. You are gambling.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

It surprises me sometimes that for all the talk of converting gold to gems nobody ever offers the other direction as a solution. Enameled dyes can be bought directly using gems if you go through the exchange.

As of this morning the range is:

• Enameled Legacy Dye ~190 gems.
• Enameled Crimson Dye ~1100 gems.

No randomness required.

edit: Lol – Raistlan did the thing i said nobody did, beat me to it

Thanks for laying it clear – it’s all about getting us in that cash shop. Rather than sell it straightforward, there’s incentives and coercion to spend more money in the cash shop.

Destai.9603:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

It surprises me sometimes that for all the talk of converting gold to gems nobody ever offers the other direction as a solution. Enameled dyes can be bought directly using gems if you go through the exchange.

As of this morning the range is:

• Enameled Legacy Dye ~190 gems.
• Enameled Crimson Dye ~1100 gems.

No randomness required.

edit: Lol – Raistlan did the thing i said nobody did, beat me to it

Thanks for laying it clear – it’s all about getting us in that cash shop. Rather than sell it straightforward, there’s incentives and coercion to spend more money in the cash shop.

Is it still a “cash shop” if no cash is required?

Curtis Johnson.8456:

It surprises me sometimes that for all the talk of converting gold to gems nobody ever offers the other direction as a solution. Enameled dyes can be bought directly using gems if you go through the exchange.

As of this morning the range is:

• Enameled Legacy Dye ~190 gems.
• Enameled Crimson Dye ~1100 gems.

No randomness required.

edit: Lol – Raistlan did the thing i said nobody did, beat me to it

I’m sorry. You’re letting players set the price of dyes by saying that – and not just any players, the farmers and champ trainers. The people who drive inflation and the ever-increasing gold→gem conversion rate. So $13 bucks for a single dye? Okay?

Gotta call it like I see it. Enormously self-serving attitude from the gem seller. Not customer focused at all.

Lheimroo.2947:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

It surprises me sometimes that for all the talk of converting gold to gems nobody ever offers the other direction as a solution. Enameled dyes can be bought directly using gems if you go through the exchange.

As of this morning the range is:

• Enameled Legacy Dye ~190 gems.
• Enameled Crimson Dye ~1100 gems.

No randomness required.

edit: Lol – Raistlan did the thing i said nobody did, beat me to it

I’m sorry. You’re letting players set the price of dyes by saying that – and not just any players, the farmers and champ trainers. The people who drive inflation and the ever-increasing gold->gem conversion rate. So $13 bucks for a single dye? Okay?

Gotta call it like I see it. Enormously self-serving attitude from the gem seller. Not customer focused at all.

1) Is purchasing this specific dye a requirement set by Anet?
2) If you don’t like RNG, you have an option to purchase it from the TP, with prices set by Supply and Demand metrics.
3) GW2 is being provided to you without any monthly subscription fees. That seems pretty customer focused to me. Calling it as I see it.

Euler.3259:

I bought some of the last set of dyes – bought 2 sets of 5, and got one of the premium dyes. Not a mistake I’ll repeat.

I would LOVE to be able to buy the dyes from the gemstore. You know, instead of buying a lottery ticket.

Some of those enameled ones look really nice, but gambling at the gemstore’s odds are just too tilted.

There are actually good economic reasons for this. It’s complicated, but any time you put a “set price” on a Gem Store commodity (at least one that’s tradeable), that can have the effect of making that commodity a defacto “Alternate Currency”. It can also artificially limit the Gold->Gem and Gem->Gold conversion ratios.

I.E., say you put a certain color dye on the Gem Store for 500 Gems. All of a sudden, the “value” of that dye color is now directly linked to the current Gem->Gold and Gold->Gem rates, and the value of that dye color will rise & fall directly in proportion with those conversion rates. That could raise havoc with the Gem Exchange rates, and the economy in general.

Alternate Currencies can totally destroy an existing economy.. For instance, in the MMO game Asheron’s Call, the ingame gold/silver/copper currency system was completely destroyed (money was pretty much worthless) because everyone preferred the alternative currency of “Motes” and “Crystal Shards”.

This is why most MMOs account bind pretty much everything from their Microtransaction stores OR, in the case of tradeable stuff, tie them to some sort of RNG lottery. A direct link between a Gem Store value and a ingame gold value just presents all kinds of economy problems that aren’t directly apparent.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

I’m not saying it’s a final solution, but it is the current solution.. And the consumer benefit being the direct purchase price is largely driven by the true player value of each color.

Yeah, that’s a benefit. There’s also another factor, which is the scarcity of the dye as determined by Arenanet.

No disrespect! I just sometimes wonder if you’d make more money selling a definite product at $3 bucks a pop than you would when you’re depending on player-set prices that fluctuate wildly but at a minimum are significantly higher. Supply/demand curve and all that jazz.

Just my preference. I really dislike gambling boxes and I feel like every day I don’t convert cash to gems I’m losing out potential purchasing power to inflation. It’s not an incentive to act now; it’s actually kinda disheartening.

I’d spend cash and have spent cash on products in the cash store, at set prices.

Curtis Johnson.8456:

And the consumer benefit being the direct purchase price is largely driven by the true player value of each color.

That is the exact opposite of benefit. Since the dyes in the game are often very similar, in a lot of cases their popularity is determined mostly by their rarity and/or drop rate, not actual estetic preferences, resulting in a vicious circle.

-Oh, it’s rare? Then people will surely pay more for it, let’s stick it up at a high price.
-Wow, that is one rare colour, I gotta have it. The other one for 1/10 of the price looks a bit similar, but there’s got to be a reason the expensive one is so expensive.
Bang, price goes up more.

Southern.8973:

This is why most MMOs account bind pretty much everything from their Microtransaction stores

Yeah that would be so much better than the RNG stuff, I’m all for account-bound things. And as a side benefit ,it eliminates the “lucky you” feeling, where for every one happy player you get X unhappy :-)

After all, the only things that really need to be tradeable are those that players produce by playing – loot and crafted stuff.

Borghal.1635:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

And the consumer benefit being the direct purchase price is largely driven by the true player value of each color.

That is the exact opposite of benefit. Since the dyes in the game are often very similar, in a lot of cases their popularity is determined mostly by their rarity and/or drop rate, not actual estetic preferences, resulting in a vicious circle.

-Oh, it’s rare? Then people will surely pay more for it, let’s stick it up at a high price.
-Wow, that is one rare colour, I gotta have it. The other one for 1/10 of the price looks a bit similar, but there’s got to be a reason the expensive one is so expensive.
Bang, price goes up more.

If a player doesn’t have the self control to refrain from making a purchase purely based on “ZOMG it’s rare”, then I have absolutely no problem selling it to them. Other times, it’s OCDs in which someone needs to have that certain shade of Black. In that case, then I feel good that I was able to satisfy their cravings.

Making people smile, one customer at a time.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If a player doesn’t have the self control to refrain from making a purchase purely based on “ZOMG it’s rare”, then I have absolutely no problem selling it to them. Other times, it’s OCDs in which someone needs to have that certain shade of Black. In that case, then I feel good that I was able to satisfy their cravings.

Making people smile, one customer at a time.

Who are you to judge others’ self-control? The perception of rarity is, for example, what drives people to make legendaries and is generally a good source of motivation in non-competitive MM games. But that does not explain why similar shades should have dramatic price tags other than “drop rate”, which is what i posted about in the first place, saying it’s a self-fueling problem.

I bought five of the flame and frost dyes when they returns and didn’t get a single one of the special dyes.

If I go to the cash shop for team fortress 2 and pay real money for a hat – I get a hat.

If I go to to the gw2 cash shop and pay gems to get a new dye….chances are I don’t.

That didn’t leave me feeling good and now, whenever I see dye packs on offer, I don’t buy them. I would say I am far from alone in that and thus far the only special dye I have I paid gold for to get direct. I would much rather have been surprised with an interesting dye from the selection to try out and perhaps be given some new ideas with.

Everyone loved opening dyes and these packs should really be the “you`ve got some spare gems, go get a fun surprise item”. As it is they are the “you’ve just wasted your spare gems item” instead.

chronometria.3708:

I bought five of the flame and frost dyes when they returns and didn’t get a single one of the special dyes.

If I go to the cash shop for team fortress 2 and pay real money for a hat – I get a hat.

If I go to to the gw2 cash shop and pay gems to get a new dye….chances are I don’t.

That didn’t leave me feeling good and now, whenever I see dye packs on offer, I don’t buy them. I would say I am far from alone in that and thus far the only special dye I have I paid gold for to get direct. I would much rather have been surprised with an interesting dye from the selection to try out and perhaps be given some new ideas with.

Everyone loved opening dyes and these packs should really be the “you`ve got some spare gems, go get a fun surprise item”. As it is they are the “you’ve just wasted your spare gems item” instead.

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a hat, I get a hat.

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a chance at getting a rare dye, I get a chance at a rare dye.

If you’re going to make comparisons, be sure you compare them correctly.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a hat, I get a hat.

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a chance at getting a rare dye, I get a chance at a rare dye.

If you’re going to make comparisons, be sure you compare them correctly.

Point being not the accuracy of comparisons, but that randomness for money is bad on an individual level.

Borghal.1635:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a hat, I get a hat.

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a chance at getting a rare dye, I get a chance at a rare dye.

If you’re going to make comparisons, be sure you compare them correctly.

Point being not the accuracy of comparisons, but that randomness for money is bad on an individual level.

If you don’t like the random nature of chance, then you can buy it directly from the TP. I think that was the whole point of CJ’s post.

Borghal.1635:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a hat, I get a hat.

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a chance at getting a rare dye, I get a chance at a rare dye.

If you’re going to make comparisons, be sure you compare them correctly.

Point being not the accuracy of comparisons, but that randomness for money is bad on an individual level.

It’s the gambler’s mentality. People have an unreasonably high estimation of their odds for getting the rare dyes. They buy the random ticket, find out they got the most common dye, and they come onto the forums and make threads such as this.

I’m not saying it’s a final solution, but it is the current solution.. And the consumer benefit being the direct purchase price is largely driven by the true player value of each color.

This comment makes me sad. Why is it that the price is or should be driven by player value. As others have points out it isn’t driven by color but by rarity of that color. Why in general should the gem store be a place for player revenue? The game itself should be able to provide plenty of that. (I am not saying it doesn’t provide that)

I do not want to support other players. I want to support the game and only the game. In many cases this is possible. Dye’s is not one of them.

edit: If you wanted to make the dye packs RNG. Then why not something more like 1 in 6 chance to get one of the new dyes, meaning that you always get a new dye. Perhaps not the color you wanted or a double of a color but new nonetheless. Instead you have a very high probability of paying 100gems for an “Iron Dye” which is nowhere near that value.

The new colors would still maintain some form of value and tradability.

KOPPER.1458:

As others have points out it isn’t driven by color but by rarity of that color

This is also a blatant mistruth. I’ve bought rare dyes before at prices below masterwork quality. Dye color prices are driven by the players’ desire to have that color combined with the supply, or lack, of the dye.

Aidan Savage.2078:

KOPPER.1458:

As others have points out it isn’t driven by color but by rarity of that color

This is also a blatant mistruth. I’ve bought rare dyes before at prices below masterwork quality. Dye color prices are driven by the players’ desire to have that color combined with the supply, or lack, of the dye.

You just confirmed it yourself.

Borghal.1635:

Aidan Savage.2078:

KOPPER.1458:

As others have points out it isn’t driven by color but by rarity of that color

This is also a blatant mistruth. I’ve bought rare dyes before at prices below masterwork quality. Dye color prices are driven by the players’ desire to have that color combined with the supply, or lack, of the dye.

You just confirmed it yourself.

He confirmed that the market is working as intended.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Borghal.1635:

Aidan Savage.2078:

KOPPER.1458:

As others have points out it isn’t driven by color but by rarity of that color

This is also a blatant mistruth. I’ve bought rare dyes before at prices below masterwork quality. Dye color prices are driven by the players’ desire to have that color combined with the supply, or lack, of the dye.

You just confirmed it yourself.

He confirmed that the market is working as intended.

What does that have to do with someone disputing something and confirming it in the same post

(On a side note, this forum subsection feels like the same 10 people divided into two teams throwing words at each other relentlessly with no effect whatsoever. I’ve yet to see someone say “you are right”, even though both sides obviously present fair arguments at times.) And I have this feeling after only a few days of hanging around here…

If the exact dyes were sold for gems, then you’d have a feedback effect between the gem conversion and the trading post. Dyes on the TP could only get as high as the equivalent price in gems (minus the buy/sell hysteresis margin for gem exchange).

Aidan Savage.2078:

Borghal.1635:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a hat, I get a hat.

If I go to the GW2 Gem Shop and buy a chance at getting a rare dye, I get a chance at a rare dye.

If you’re going to make comparisons, be sure you compare them correctly.

Point being not the accuracy of comparisons, but that randomness for money is bad on an individual level.

It’s the gambler’s mentality. People have an unreasonably high estimation of their odds for getting the rare dyes. They buy the random ticket, find out they got the most common dye, and they come onto the forums and make threads such as this.

Or they buy several – and realize the system is kitten, and they describe what they would like to buy. You know, realizing something is bad and then providing feedback.

juno.1840:

If the exact dyes were sold for gems, then you’d have a feedback effect between the gem conversion and the trading post. Dyes on the TP could only get as high as the equivalent price in gems (minus the buy/sell hysteresis margin for gem exchange).

What’s so bad about “account bound”? Insofar as I know, all of the stuff on the gem store IS account bound, which is probably part of the reason why you can’t buy weapon skins with gems but must go through the BLC lottery unlike armor skins.

Borghal.1635:

Curtis Johnson.8456:

And the consumer benefit being the direct purchase price is largely driven by the true player value of each color.

That is the exact opposite of benefit. Since the dyes in the game are often very similar, in a lot of cases their popularity is determined mostly by their rarity and/or drop rate, not actual estetic preferences, resulting in a vicious circle.

-Oh, it’s rare? Then people will surely pay more for it, let’s stick it up at a high price.
-Wow, that is one rare colour, I gotta have it. The other one for 1/10 of the price looks a bit similar, but there’s got to be a reason the expensive one is so expensive.
Bang, price goes up more.

So if there is a cheap dye that looks very similiar in your eyes and you dont think the exclusive dye is worth the difference, why not just buy the cheap one but complain about the high price of the other one?

Bought 4 Dye packs not a single enameled. I understand it’s random but blowing $25 hoping for one of the cool “new” dye’s and getting kitten is just bad. I will NOT be buying an more dye from gemstore until Anet get’s their head out of their kitten and caters to the PAYING customers. Make the drop rate for “gold” purchased ones suck I don’t care but please don’t give me 15 silver worth of dyes I already have for $25