Guild Wars 2

I got many “oh GW2 TP is so high risk, blah blah”.

True, I have many loss. But I always gain them back from other investment. Or even if I loss, I just keep the item for a while, and it gain back in value.

The question is does anyone “loss more” than “they gain”. Ya I see people lossing a few thousands gold from their investment. Eventhough they have a bank account with 50k gold or something. That’s high risk?

I sold windcatcher skin for 80 gold before the event. Ya that’s dumb because they go up to 190 gold now. But just because I don’t make 100 gold means I loss 100 gold.

I’m one of the worse real life stock market player around, and I can honest say even people as dumb as me have no problem “making more than I loss” in GW2 TP. So really, the fraction of people lossing more than they gain must be “really really small”.

really, you dont’ need half a brain to know “any” black lion weapon you bought for 50-70 gold will eventually go up. So how exactly do you loss gold?

Just as a personal example, I invested in Endless Wintersday Tonics back when they were ~20g the first time around. Thinking I was brilliant and could lose no money, I ended up holding them for > 1 year to break even, that’s a loss if you consider inflation.

Many traders won’t say when they lose money but many do. They buy the item thinking it’ll go up but it either goes horizontal for ages or just dips.

Another example are the time limited dyes from Gem Store. I bought ~500g worth thinking they’d go up but now they are only worth 300g. I have kept them for now but it’s a loss.

Another personal example = gossamer. Bought a bunch at 5s thinking ascended armor rush would lead to profits but I was too slow to cash in and it crashed to 3s or below very quickly.

Naturally I also make money from other investments but to say it is risk-free would be foolish. I’ve learned from my experiences and generally I lose less than I profit but the risk is definitely there.

Obviously people are more prone to bragging about making money than losing money so you have a sample bias if you believe everything you read on the forums.

I’m not saying it is risk free. I just mean the people who loss more than they gain are probably very very small.

If you mean the risk is so high because your chosen item didn’t beat “inflation”, I suppose I got quite a few of those money.

I got in fractal 50 for a week got less than 15 gold.
The thing i needed to craft now costs 130 gold more ._.

I lost 115 gold succeeding at what is considered amongts the most difficult pve contents.

Also i can t play fractal and other stuff at the same time.
And i need to log in the game to play fractal.

Whatever you do, if its not TP you lose 100%.

That’s the thing. You can buy just about “anything” and it go up in price. (cough cough inflation).

People must be pretty bad at TP, if they’ll loss money from it.

Gold production goes down
Item costs goes up.

What a silly inflation.

laokoko.7403:

I got many “oh GW2 TP is so high risk, blah blah”.

True, I have many loss. But I always gain them back from other investment. Or even if I loss, I just keep the item for a while, and it gain back in value.

The question is does anyone “loss more” than “they gain”. Ya I see people lossing a few thousands gold from their investment. Eventhough they have a bank account with 50k gold or something. That’s high risk?

I sold windcatcher skin for 80 gold before the event. Ya that’s dumb because they go up to 190 gold now. But just because I don’t make 100 gold means I loss 100 gold.

I’m one of the worse real life stock market player around, and I can honest say even people as dumb as me have no problem “making more than I loss” in GW2 TP. So really, the fraction of people lossing more than they gain must be “really really small”.

really, you dont’ need half a brain to know “any” black lion weapon you bought for 50-70 gold will eventually go up. So how exactly do you loss gold?

The perception that its easier to make profit than lose gold on the tp comes from the fact that the loss is carried by alot of people who dont know it (or dont care about it).

Everytime someone sells something to the highest bidder, he makes a loss on the tp.
If i buy a skin now for 30 gold and sell it for 50g in a month or so, sure i made a profit.
But whoever sold me the skin for 30g a month ago, wouldnt neccessarily call his sale a loss on the tp.

Maybe because people who DON T play the TP need moneys to PLAY gw2?

So if waiting is part of your game, is instead what prevents to play their game.

John Smith posted here just after the great dye run saying that a lot of people who bought up dyes panicked and sold at a loss. Buying at 70s and selling at 50 s probably hurt a lot of people (but they are probably feeling relieved that they got rid of them before they reached 20). This is probably why a lot of people get burned, they jump on a bandwagon without really thinking it through.

Playing the TP is not bandwagoning for desperation that is causing this game economy.

First rule of TP playing from about 2 year ago and repeated at least 1 hundred time in this section:

differentiation

That is the trick to avoid any risk.

Why people attempt to play the TP even if they are not informed?
Because nerfs + speculation is pushing the game out of reach of normal players.

In general, the average loss on the tp is 15% (fees and taxes).

TP is high risk IF you invest in a long term market(jetpack, pheonix skins, etc) or one that people speculate will increase in demand after a update(dyes, gossamer(befoer people realize you needed silk instead)). Still you can make a profit off of people speculate in the short term buy quickly buying low and reselling the next day. Take into account the TP tax, cost of mats of a crafting items and then you can understand what you can make to get a profit.

The Festival of the four wind bazaar is always profitable for me. The profit margins I am use to are 5-20% but with the bazaar those profit margins shot up to 70-100% for a few days. Made a nice profit from the first week.

Maybe I earned more than I lost but my earned money didn’t surpass the inflation and in general without flipping I coul’ve afford more items.

Psychol.5783:

Maybe I earned more than I lost but my earned money didn’t surpass the inflation and in general without flipping I coul’ve afford more items.

How do you determine inflation without any data concerning average gold gain per day?

The TP by design is a loss. If someone made 85g on the TP then that means someone else spent 100g. That means one person lost 100g and one person made 85g, for a total loss of 15g. The TP is the ultimate in risk, in PvE everyone comes out ahead 100% of the time, there is no way to lose money in PvE. Playing the TP for every bit of money someone makes that means someone else lost even more money.

Now they may be ok with that loss because they gained an item they wanted, but there is no gain in the TP as it always removes gold from the economy, so for every person that is successfully earning money on the TP there is someone else losing even more money.

There are plenty of bad investments. Maybe we can get a Wanze post with his best stories. Some really memorable bad investments:

1. I bought up tons of watch work Sprokets at 1-1.5 silver during last year’s Queens Jubilee, only to see 4x as many Sprokets drop during the next patch, Scarlets invasion, driving the price down to vendorable. I eventually go rid of them and got my money back but it took soon long.

2. Minipets have lost 60% of their value and continue to lose value because of mini Scarlets, Caithes in Black Lion Chests. (Also the holographic risen knight debacle)

3. People made a lot of money on the gemstore Dyes when they were first released but subsequent releases are hit or miss.

4. A lot of people are going to be holding their unidentified dyes for a long time before they get any kind of return. At this point, on the addition of new colors to the unidentified dye loot table will save their value.

5. Silver Doubloons are down big since the start of this year.

6. I was crafting 40s-50s rare armors nearer to launch when that market suddenly dried up, I ended up taking half the ones I had on the market Dow and salvaging, the others took almost a year to finally sell.

7. At a buy price of 5gold per, I had cornered at least half of the supply of a certain ascended keepers recipe during the marionette. Then in the very next patch, anet decided to rerelease the same recipe during Scarlet’s attack, with a higher drop rate, aquirable for a full month. Price plummets to 50 silver, and even after trying to price protect, I’ll be lucky to get my gold back anytime soon.

At this point, I am certain that when in house economist sees that the price of formerly released gemstore items goes high, that it is time to rerelease them. Investing in such items comes with a big risk that anet will undercut you.

Many people talking about their biggest losses are suffering some serious myopia. Its like someone who died 3 times fighting tequatl talking about how he lost money(back when there was repair fees), ignoring the fact he won the fight.

Point the op is making, is yes you lose on investments some times, but overall its pretty easy to come out ahead OVERALL. Talking about the time you lost 10 g on sprockets and ignoring the other times you made 100g is foolish.

For those who say, the TP is a net loss, sure maybe for the world, but we know its a net loss for the world, the question is, is it a loss for you as a TP player? Its like someone saying the stock market was a loss because they have to pay broker fees.

Heres the truth, TP is pvp, you take your money from other players, mostly less educated (on tp) or people who dont care. You essentially siphon money from all the players who arent playing the same game as you. Redistributing wealth into your pockets.

I mean its fine, but stop lying to yourself, saying you COULD lose money on the TP if you are foolish, you could lose money waypointing over the map, or leaving dungeon runs due to anger, or failing tequatl/wurm.

Lets be real and honest. The risk on the TP is minimal overall when you have even an inkling what you are doing, for an actual TP player. The risk is extremely great for a non TP player, but they dont know/dont care that they have just lost value, in fact they will often argue with you until you are blue in the face, when you talk about things like opportunity costs, transforming items, waiting, variance, etc.

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

phys.7689:

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

OK, i make profit by playing the game, just like anybody else. What a revelation.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

OK, i make profit by playing the game, just like anybody else. What a revelation.

“omg but tp isnt plyng the gaem, u paly tpwarz2 y u evn ply enymoar?”
-the majority, 2012-2014.

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

I got many “oh GW2 TP is so high risk, blah blah”.

True, I have many loss. But I always gain them back from other investment. Or even if I loss, I just keep the item for a while, and it gain back in value.

The question is does anyone “loss more” than “they gain”. Ya I see people lossing a few thousands gold from their investment. Eventhough they have a bank account with 50k gold or something. That’s high risk?

I sold windcatcher skin for 80 gold before the event. Ya that’s dumb because they go up to 190 gold now. But just because I don’t make 100 gold means I loss 100 gold.

I’m one of the worse real life stock market player around, and I can honest say even people as dumb as me have no problem “making more than I loss” in GW2 TP. So really, the fraction of people lossing more than they gain must be “really really small”.

really, you dont’ need half a brain to know “any” black lion weapon you bought for 50-70 gold will eventually go up. So how exactly do you loss gold?

The perception that its easier to make profit than lose gold on the tp comes from the fact that the loss is carried by alot of people who dont know it (or dont care about it).

Everytime someone sells something to the highest bidder, he makes a loss on the tp.
If i buy a skin now for 30 gold and sell it for 50g in a month or so, sure i made a profit.
But whoever sold me the skin for 30g a month ago, wouldnt neccessarily call his sale a loss on the tp.

I think a lot of people just don’t care to be honest.

Many people probably just don’t care that much about virtual money, especially, there arn’t too much money to spend on anything besides cosmetic in GW2.

It’s weird thinking about it, because people like me or you, will spend much of our money investing. While other people just spent what they have.

I just put m items up, then play the game normally, and in a day or two I’ve made 50% profit while enjoying myself. And if I do take a couple gold loss (I’m still learning my way around TP playing) I’ve likely made it back by playing the game.

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

OK, i make profit by playing the game, just like anybody else. What a revelation.

the point of the OP is, dont act like the TP is some sort of high risk extremely difficult mode of play. This is not saying that YOU are, but there are many people acting like making money on the TP is harder than beating wurm, or winning a pvp match. Its just a different type of game that is being played.

As far as risk, yes, you could lose money but you could lose money doing a lot of stupid/shortsighted things in many facets of the game.

phys.7689:

Many people talking about their biggest losses are suffering some serious myopia. Its like someone who died 3 times fighting tequatl talking about how he lost money(back when there was repair fees), ignoring the fact he won the fight.

Point the op is making, is yes you lose on investments some times, but overall its pretty easy to come out ahead OVERALL. Talking about the time you lost 10 g on sprockets and ignoring the other times you made 100g is foolish.

For those who say, the TP is a net loss, sure maybe for the world, but we know its a net loss for the world, the question is, is it a loss for you as a TP player? Its like someone saying the stock market was a loss because they have to pay broker fees.

Heres the truth, TP is pvp, you take your money from other players, mostly less educated (on tp) or people who dont care. You essentially siphon money from all the players who arent playing the same game as you. Redistributing wealth into your pockets.

I mean its fine, but stop lying to yourself, saying you COULD lose money on the TP if you are foolish, you could lose money waypointing over the map, or leaving dungeon runs due to anger, or failing tequatl/wurm.

Lets be real and honest. The risk on the TP is minimal overall when you have even an inkling what you are doing, for an actual TP player. The risk is extremely great for a non TP player, but they dont know/dont care that they have just lost value, in fact they will often argue with you until you are blue in the face, when you talk about things like opportunity costs, transforming items, waiting, variance, etc.

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

You’re talking about trading. He’s talking about speculative investments gone sour. There’s a difference. Unless you are running a pure arbitrage strategy or are able to purchase an item at vendor cost (and don’t have opportunity costs in terms of storage/liquidity), then any investment carries unmitigable risks, which scale with the amount of the investment. Look at Vol and his dodge food bet.

Flissy.4093:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

OK, i make profit by playing the game, just like anybody else. What a revelation.

“omg but tp isnt plyng the gaem, u paly tpwarz2 y u evn ply enymoar?”
-the majority, 2012-2014.

see thing is, the majority probably wouldnt care, except they have to play your game for the the high end things. Best way to solve the problem is to give people means of getting the upper echelon stuff in game through normal play. Most people dont care about spreadsheets, profits, etc they just want to have fun and get the stuff they want without entering your battlefield.

Mckeone.9804:

phys.7689:

Many people talking about their biggest losses are suffering some serious myopia. Its like someone who died 3 times fighting tequatl talking about how he lost money(back when there was repair fees), ignoring the fact he won the fight.

Point the op is making, is yes you lose on investments some times, but overall its pretty easy to come out ahead OVERALL. Talking about the time you lost 10 g on sprockets and ignoring the other times you made 100g is foolish.

For those who say, the TP is a net loss, sure maybe for the world, but we know its a net loss for the world, the question is, is it a loss for you as a TP player? Its like someone saying the stock market was a loss because they have to pay broker fees.

Heres the truth, TP is pvp, you take your money from other players, mostly less educated (on tp) or people who dont care. You essentially siphon money from all the players who arent playing the same game as you. Redistributing wealth into your pockets.

I mean its fine, but stop lying to yourself, saying you COULD lose money on the TP if you are foolish, you could lose money waypointing over the map, or leaving dungeon runs due to anger, or failing tequatl/wurm.

Lets be real and honest. The risk on the TP is minimal overall when you have even an inkling what you are doing, for an actual TP player. The risk is extremely great for a non TP player, but they dont know/dont care that they have just lost value, in fact they will often argue with you until you are blue in the face, when you talk about things like opportunity costs, transforming items, waiting, variance, etc.

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

You’re talking about trading. He’s talking about speculative investments gone sour. There’s a difference. Unless you are running a pure arbitrage strategy or are able to purchase an item at vendor cost (and don’t have opportunity costs in terms of storage/liquidity), then any investment carries unmitigable risks, which scale with the amount of the investment. Look at Vol and his dodge food bet.

I think the op isnt talking about speculation, i think hes talking about all profit earning ventures the average TP players makes, and saying that overall they profit pretty easily.

phys.7689:

Flissy.4093:

Wanze.8410:

phys.7689:

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

OK, i make profit by playing the game, just like anybody else. What a revelation.

“omg but tp isnt plyng the gaem, u paly tpwarz2 y u evn ply enymoar?”
-the majority, 2012-2014.

see thing is, the majority probably wouldnt care, except they have to play your game for the the high end things. Best way to solve the problem is to give people means of getting the upper echelon stuff in game through normal play. Most people dont care about spreadsheets, profits, etc they just want to have fun and get the stuff they want without entering your battlefield.

Nearly 100% of the player base use the TP and subsequently make profit off it, some more, some less.
If i spend the majority of my game time on the tp, i make more profit than others.
Someone who runs dungeons all day, gets more dungeon tokens than me.
Someone who plays wvw all day, gets more ranks and badges than me.
Nearly everything in game rewards skill points, karma and a chance at a very rare drop, you dont get those rewards by playing the tp.
And i have never seen a tp player qq about that on the forums.
There are little to no requirements to start playing the tp, so everybody has access to those “low risk” (according to OP) profits. For some its fun, for some its not.
If players decide to just use the tp to quickly sell their loot and directly buy their wanted items from other players, thats fine. As long as they dont qq on the forums about players that make more gold than them, demand that their favourite game mode gets equal rewards (because profits on the tp are a different reward mechanic than generated rewards) or start spinning unfunded conspiracy theories about super rich tp cartels that destroy the economy.

My most recent loss is from Orrian Meat Stews (40% dodge). I bought 3 stacks at 15s each. Price is now 12s, and there is no way for me to unload these foods since the buy orders are scarce.

I also heavily invested in the 30% dodge food, but I made a slight profit off these.

I also invested in +24 stacks of Orrian Truffles and made a cool 60c-1S profit per piece after holding for just 3 days.

You win, you lose.

edit: An important lesson learned here is that if you are to invest, try to invest in the root items rather than the finished components. Investment in finished components carry more risk since the demand for these items are very limited, while the root items have their risk offset by demand from other areas.

Vol.7601:

My most recent loss is from Orrian Meat Stews (40% dodge). I bought 3 stacks at 15s each. Price is now 12s, and there is no way for me to unload these foods since the buy orders are scarce.

I also heavily invested in the 30% dodge food, but I made a slight profit off these.

I also invested in +24 stacks of Orrian Truffles and made a cool 60c-1S profit per piece after holding for just 3 days.

You win, you lose.

edit: An important lesson learned here is that if you are to invest, try to invest in the root items rather than the finished components. Investment in finished components carry more risk since the demand for these items are very limited, while the root items have their risk offset by demand from other areas.

You said the same thing on another thread. My guess is your “net profit” is like a few thousand if not in the tens of thousands right? I mean you bought so many leather you can kill all the buy order.

If that’s the case, you think TP is high risk?

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

My most recent loss is from Orrian Meat Stews (40% dodge). I bought 3 stacks at 15s each. Price is now 12s, and there is no way for me to unload these foods since the buy orders are scarce.

I also heavily invested in the 30% dodge food, but I made a slight profit off these.

I also invested in +24 stacks of Orrian Truffles and made a cool 60c-1S profit per piece after holding for just 3 days.

You win, you lose.

edit: An important lesson learned here is that if you are to invest, try to invest in the root items rather than the finished components. Investment in finished components carry more risk since the demand for these items are very limited, while the root items have their risk offset by demand from other areas.

You said the same thing on another thread. My guess is your “net profit” is like a few thousand if not in the tens of thousands right? I mean you bought so many leather you can kill all the buy order.

If that’s the case, you think TP is high risk?

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

Its still higher risk than other reward structures in the game, which basically have next to no risk.

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

My most recent loss is from Orrian Meat Stews (40% dodge). I bought 3 stacks at 15s each. Price is now 12s, and there is no way for me to unload these foods since the buy orders are scarce.

I also heavily invested in the 30% dodge food, but I made a slight profit off these.

I also invested in +24 stacks of Orrian Truffles and made a cool 60c-1S profit per piece after holding for just 3 days.

You win, you lose.

edit: An important lesson learned here is that if you are to invest, try to invest in the root items rather than the finished components. Investment in finished components carry more risk since the demand for these items are very limited, while the root items have their risk offset by demand from other areas.

You said the same thing on another thread. My guess is your “net profit” is like a few thousand if not in the tens of thousands right? I mean you bought so many leather you can kill all the buy order.

If that’s the case, you think TP is high risk?

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

Its still higher risk than other reward structures in the game, which basically have next to no risk.

You know how you always like to call people entitlement(or is that another poster) when anyone complain about the TP?

So boy, the guy loss 22 gold is complaining about high risk, and he gained in the tens of thousnads of gold. I’m not sure what entitlement is.

unless you don’t diversify your investment at all. The risk is actually very low right?

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

My most recent loss is from Orrian Meat Stews (40% dodge). I bought 3 stacks at 15s each. Price is now 12s, and there is no way for me to unload these foods since the buy orders are scarce.

I also heavily invested in the 30% dodge food, but I made a slight profit off these.

I also invested in +24 stacks of Orrian Truffles and made a cool 60c-1S profit per piece after holding for just 3 days.

You win, you lose.

edit: An important lesson learned here is that if you are to invest, try to invest in the root items rather than the finished components. Investment in finished components carry more risk since the demand for these items are very limited, while the root items have their risk offset by demand from other areas.

You said the same thing on another thread. My guess is your “net profit” is like a few thousand if not in the tens of thousands right? I mean you bought so many leather you can kill all the buy order.

If that’s the case, you think TP is high risk?

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I posted in the other Thick Leather Thread but I miscalculated. Instead of buying 400g worth of leather it turns out I only bought 120g or so. I mixed the figure up with silver ore (I bought Thick Leather last year so it’s been awhile). I’ve only recently started recording keeping all my transactions to and from all my 4 accounts so I can get a better grasp of my inventory.

So instead of a sweet 1400g profit I ended up with 400/500g, and that took about 8-12 hours of selling my stacks on the TP for 30c (I prefer selling in real time rather than listing it and hoping it’ll sell so as to avoid a price wall I cannot get out of)

phys.7689:

Many people talking about their biggest losses are suffering some serious myopia. Its like someone who died 3 times fighting tequatl talking about how he lost money(back when there was repair fees), ignoring the fact he won the fight.

Point the op is making, is yes you lose on investments some times, but overall its pretty easy to come out ahead OVERALL. Talking about the time you lost 10 g on sprockets and ignoring the other times you made 100g is foolish.

For those who say, the TP is a net loss, sure maybe for the world, but we know its a net loss for the world, the question is, is it a loss for you as a TP player? Its like someone saying the stock market was a loss because they have to pay broker fees.

Heres the truth, TP is pvp, you take your money from other players, mostly less educated (on tp) or people who dont care. You essentially siphon money from all the players who arent playing the same game as you. Redistributing wealth into your pockets.

I mean its fine, but stop lying to yourself, saying you COULD lose money on the TP if you are foolish, you could lose money waypointing over the map, or leaving dungeon runs due to anger, or failing tequatl/wurm.

Lets be real and honest. The risk on the TP is minimal overall when you have even an inkling what you are doing, for an actual TP player. The risk is extremely great for a non TP player, but they dont know/dont care that they have just lost value, in fact they will often argue with you until you are blue in the face, when you talk about things like opportunity costs, transforming items, waiting, variance, etc.

TLDR, actual TP players lose little to no money, but gain money the overall. Whether the TP is a net loss in value for the economy is totally and completely irrelevant to whether its a net loss for players. TP players essentially suck money out of players who dont know/care to gain wealth.

Is this bad or not? thats up for debate, but dont try to hide with half truths, obfuscations, and double talks.

It depends on what your definition of “high risk” is.

If you are saying that it is not like real life where a stock can lose 100% of its value then sure, the TP does not have anywhere near that amount of risk.

However, the TP has the highest risk compared to EVERYTHING ELSE in GW2. There is no other activity where there is a very real chance to lose 50% or more of your net worth because ANET decided to introduce 100 new skins or add additional nodes.

Sure you can hold on to something and hope that inflation takes the price above what you paid it for. But if you were farming instead, you would have a lot more gold.

If you could have made 100 gold farming champs in 1 month instead of 200 gold in 3 months investing, when the precursor you want doubled in price, which decision would have saved you more time and gotten you what you want faster?

phys.7689:

The risk on the TP is minimal overall when you have even an inkling what you are doing, for an actual TP player.

It sounds like you are saying “the risk on the stock market is minimal overall when you have even an inkling of what you are doing, for an actual stock market investor like Warren Buffet”.

Isn’t it reasonable that the best investors have a much lower risk? So what is your definition of an “actual” TP player?

If you ask me, most people who try to play the TP are “actual” TP players. Just because most of them lose money or barely beat out inflation hardly disqualifies them as TP players.

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

Tell me, what other part of GW2 can you potentially lose 1000 gold? Most players don’t even have 1000 gold.

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

Vol.7601:

My most recent loss is from Orrian Meat Stews (40% dodge). I bought 3 stacks at 15s each. Price is now 12s, and there is no way for me to unload these foods since the buy orders are scarce.

I also heavily invested in the 30% dodge food, but I made a slight profit off these.

I also invested in +24 stacks of Orrian Truffles and made a cool 60c-1S profit per piece after holding for just 3 days.

You win, you lose.

edit: An important lesson learned here is that if you are to invest, try to invest in the root items rather than the finished components. Investment in finished components carry more risk since the demand for these items are very limited, while the root items have their risk offset by demand from other areas.

You said the same thing on another thread. My guess is your “net profit” is like a few thousand if not in the tens of thousands right? I mean you bought so many leather you can kill all the buy order.

If that’s the case, you think TP is high risk?

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

Its still higher risk than other reward structures in the game, which basically have next to no risk.

You know how you always like to call people entitlement(or is that another poster) when anyone complain about the TP?

So boy, the guy loss 22 gold is complaining about high risk, and he gained in the tens of thousnads of gold. I’m not sure what entitlement is.

unless you don’t diversify your investment at all. The risk is actually very low right?

I think, if you are not sure, if someone said something or not, you shouldnt throw accusations around.

I probably made losses in every market at some point and lost more gold on the tp in general than in any other aspect of the game. I died around 7000 times in game, which sums up to 100g in repair costs before the change. Compared to my accumulated losses on the tp, 100g are peanuts.

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

Gewd.8125:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

Tell me, what other part of GW2 can you potentially lose 1000 gold? Most players don’t even have 1000 gold.

People are just playing with definition.

I think the whole point is unless you get greedy and put everything in one basket. Almost everyone who regularly invest in the TP made more than they loss.

They probably didn’t beat inflation. But just about almost everyone made more than they loss.

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

Diversification = Less Profit

If you want to prove the TP is high risk, do it with the average of all TP players, not the top.

The best players are obviously going to beat the odds.

Gewd.8125:

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

Diversification = Less Profit

If you want to prove the TP is high risk, do it with the average of all TP players, not the top.

The best players are obviously going to beat the odds.

Almost everyone who is actually a “TP players” beat the odds.

The other people who just don’t care, or who isn’t an investor shouldn’t even count.

Every item pretty much go up in price. Really hard not to beat the odds.

If you mean it didn’t beat inflation because permanent bank license went from 100 gold→500 gold. Sure they probably didn’t beat inflation.

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

I never had more than 750g in my wallet. My account wealth is substantially higher though. I dont know what you are trying to prove here with numbers that you are pulling out of your tin foil hat.

I said i earned more than 4000g with regular gameplay and it was a comparison to the 4000g profit you claimed to have made and the 1000g loss you claimed to have made.

Even if i made 50k profit overall on the tp, i could have made 200k profit and 150k losses.

Is it possible to make huge profits on the tp? Sure.
But is it the norm? Nope.

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

I never had more than 750g in my wallet. My account wealth is substantially higher though. I dont know what you are trying to prove here with numbers that you are pulling out of your tin foil hat.

I said i earned more than 4000g with regular gameplay and it was a comparison to the 4000g profit you claimed to have made and the 1000g loss you claimed to have made.

Even if i made 50k profit overall on the tp, i could have made 200k profit and 150k losses.

Is it possible to make huge profits on the tp? Sure.
But is it the norm? Nope.

my mistake. I thought you said your wealth is like 60k, and you made so much money that you never have to worry about money again.

Probably my memory going bad.

laokoko.7403:

Gewd.8125:

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

Diversification = Less Profit

If you want to prove the TP is high risk, do it with the average of all TP players, not the top.

The best players are obviously going to beat the odds.

Almost everyone who is actually a “TP players” beat the odds.

The other people who just don’t care, or who isn’t an investor shouldn’t even count.

Every item pretty much go up in price. Really hard not to beat the odds.

If you mean it didn’t beat inflation because permanent bank license went from 100 gold->500 gold. Sure they probably didn’t beat inflation.

Please prove that almost everyone who is actually a “TP player” beats the odds. You have no proof.

Since last year, gold has inflated by 300%. It isn’t just a few items likes permanent banks.

If inflation is 300% and your investments only 100%, you lost 50% of your purchasing power by leaving your gold locked up for months.

Last time I checked most items did not go up that much. If you invested in something like charged lodestones a year ago, they only just recovered to their original price this month.

http://www.gw2tp.com/item/24305-charged-lodestone?full=1

Gewd.8125:

laokoko.7403:

Gewd.8125:

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

Diversification = Less Profit

If you want to prove the TP is high risk, do it with the average of all TP players, not the top.

The best players are obviously going to beat the odds.

Almost everyone who is actually a “TP players” beat the odds.

The other people who just don’t care, or who isn’t an investor shouldn’t even count.

Every item pretty much go up in price. Really hard not to beat the odds.

If you mean it didn’t beat inflation because permanent bank license went from 100 gold->500 gold. Sure they probably didn’t beat inflation.

Please prove that almost everyone who is actually a “TP player” beats the odds. You have no proof.

Since last year, gold has inflated by 300%. It isn’t just a few items likes permanent banks.

If inflation is 300% and your investments only 100%, you lost 50% of your purchasing power by leaving your gold locked up for months.

Last time I checked most items did not go up that much. If you invested in something like charged lodestones a year ago, they only just recovered to their original price this month.

http://www.gw2tp.com/item/24305-charged-lodestone?full=1

well you make a bold 300% inflation. It’s hard to loss money if almost no item is lossing value and most of them either stay or gaining value.

I don’t know how much inflation went, but there are really “almost” no item that loss value over time.

My definition of beating the odds is making more than you gain “aka dont’ save gold but invest”. If your definition of beating the odds is beating the 300% inflation, our definition is different. There are definitely people that don’t triple the value of their investment.

You don’t seem to understand the concept of inflation and purchasing power. I would suggest you read up on it before making any more claims.

Gewd.8125:

You don’t seem to understand the concept of inflation and purchasing power. I would suggest you read up on it before making any more claims.

ya sure if your definition is there are people that didn’t triple their gold investment, there definitely are.

So by your definition. TP is high risk because people can’t stop playing for a year and triple their gold. It is high risk.

I suppose that’s why people complain about the TP. Because they can’t farm money fast enough to people who simply invest. Which just back to the point dont’ keep gold, always buy things, since inflation will just continue to happen.

I understand what’s inflation and purchasing power. But I think you forget the point, many people dont’ even need any money. But making money just became their end game. A few of the TP Barons says they dont’ care about legendary, so why are they trying to get more money. They just want more virtual wealth for whatever reason.

laokoko.7403:

Gewd.8125:

You don’t seem to understand the concept of inflation and purchasing power. I would suggest you read up on it before making any more claims.

ya sure if your definition is there are people that didn’t triple their gold investment, there definitely are.

So by your definition. TP is high risk because people can’t stop playing for a year and triple their gold. It is high risk.

I suppose that’s why people complain about the TP. Because they can’t farm money fast enough to people who simply invest.

Nothing you say about this matters until you understand what inflation is. And from your comments you obviously don’t.

Inflation is caused by gold generating activities. Playing the TP takes gold out of the system. Farming monsters creates gold out of thin air.

Gold is inflated because the average players went from 2 g/hr to 6 g/hr from champ bags, queen’s pavillion farming, and the removal of repair costs.

This means higher risk in playing the TP. If you cannot make as much gold as you could farming monsters you have purchasing power.

Gewd.8125:

laokoko.7403:

Gewd.8125:

You don’t seem to understand the concept of inflation and purchasing power. I would suggest you read up on it before making any more claims.

ya sure if your definition is there are people that didn’t triple their gold investment, there definitely are.

So by your definition. TP is high risk because people can’t stop playing for a year and triple their gold. It is high risk.

I suppose that’s why people complain about the TP. Because they can’t farm money fast enough to people who simply invest.

Nothing you say about this matters until you understand what inflation is. And from your comments you obviously don’t.

Inflation is caused by gold generating activities. Playing the TP takes gold out of the system. Farming monsters creates gold out of thin air.

Gold is inflated because the average players went from 2 g/hr to 6 g/hr from champ bags, queen’s pavillion farming, and the removal of repair costs.

This means higher risk in playing the TP. If you cannot make as much gold as you could farming monsters you have purchasing power.

ok thanks for your lecture.

I was happy that I bought 40k dragon coffer for 1.5 silver and sold them for over 7 silver. And I was happy that I bought a bunch of black lion weapon for 50-70 gold and sold them for 150 gold.

I suppose I have nothing to be happy about, because I didn’t even beat inflation.

@Gewd

Sounds like you are determining you 300% figure from the Exchange’s rate of Gold to Gems. Actually it’s 200% or 3x but not 300%. Minor nick-pit.

Major nick-pit is the Exchange’s rate has absolutely nothing to do with purchasing power of gold relative to TP prices. The exchange rate is mechanically determined based on the amount of the remaining gems in the exchange’s vault Vs gold in the exchanges’s vault. The more players convert gold to gems, the higher the rate goes as gems decrease while gold increases in the exchange’s vault. We could have zero inflation on the TP while the exchange rate rises 200% in a year.

The increase of the exchange rate just means players love trading gold for gems and haven’t taken the hint yet that this only raises the rate higher.

Behellagh.1468:

@Gewd

Sounds like you are determining you 300% figure from the Exchange’s rate of Gold to Gems. Actually it’s 200% or 3x but not 300%. Minor nick-pit.

Major nick-pit is the Exchange’s rate has absolutely nothing to do with purchasing power of gold relative to TP prices. The exchange rate is mechanically determined based on the amount of the remaining gems in the exchange’s vault Vs gold in the exchanges’s vault. The more players convert gold to gems, the higher the rate goes as gems decrease while gold increases in the exchange’s vault. We could have zero inflation on the TP while the exchange rate rises 200% in a year.

The increase of the exchange rate just means players love trading gold for gems and haven’t taken the hint yet that this only raises the rate higher.

Nah, you really think I am that bad at math?

I determined inflation by looking at the black market exchange rate. The best measurement of inflation bar none.

Which is loosely based on the Gem Exchange rate because the Gold Sellers need to keep in front of our rate as it goes up.

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

Wanze.8410:

laokoko.7403:

One of my investment turned out bad, and I might loss thousand of gold on it. But through my GW2 life. I probably made 4000 gold from TP. Lossing 1000 gold and gaining 4000 gold don’t mean it’s high risk.

I probably earned more than 4000g through regular gameplay, outside of the tp, but i didnt lose anywhere close to 1000g while engaging in that gameplay.
TP has the higher risk.

you said you have 60k gold right? so you made 55k gold from TP and loss 1k. That’s high risk.

Everyone who didn’t put all egg in one basket made more money.

I never had more than 750g in my wallet. My account wealth is substantially higher though. I dont know what you are trying to prove here with numbers that you are pulling out of your tin foil hat.

I said i earned more than 4000g with regular gameplay and it was a comparison to the 4000g profit you claimed to have made and the 1000g loss you claimed to have made.

Even if i made 50k profit overall on the tp, i could have made 200k profit and 150k losses.

Is it possible to make huge profits on the tp? Sure.
But is it the norm? Nope.

my mistake. I thought you said your wealth is like 60k, and you made so much money that you never have to worry about money again.

Probably my memory going bad.

There is a huge difference between 60k gold and 60k wealth. No decent tp player is hoarding gold because its a bad idea to have liquid assets instead of investing it.