Guild Wars 2

Fenrir.3609:

phys.7689:

most other games either make all items fairly obtainable, or make obtaining it require some sort of endgame, high end activity. Heck in FFXI even farming high level crafting mats was either about killing tough monsters, or traveling into death pits no one went to (and no one could solo) and ninja ing around the place with magic and knowing the spawns.
Death would lower your level, and send you far away from where you needed to get to. Like i said you keep talking about entitlement, its not about wanting something for nothing, its about wanting something for actually doing something.

It’s everything about self entitlement and a complete failure to understand systems.

You do get rewarded for doing endgame content and you can “win”.

If you think the guy with x more gold is “winning” against the guy soloing dungeons, setting record times and also making enough gold to buy luxury items whilst he is doing it.

If you think the guy standing at the TP flipping all day is “winning” against the teams competing in major spvp tournaments.

If you think the guy flipping is “winning” against the people dominating in GvG everyday.

Well, then I find your notion of “winning” rather odd.

I’m all for new rewards for non TP activities btw, but if you want additional rewards for endgame activities than those rewards need to be granted for elite level content. And if you want to increase farming drop rates, then make the loot system competitive.

If winning the game is any activity that is playing the game, then sure you dont need the tp to win.
If winning the game is actually getting rewards/progress towards the end game.

• Just to be clear, mike o brien president of anet said that the long term game is about obtaining cosmetics, and Eric Flannum said that legendaries were supposed to be a goal for player who wanted to master the game. Ascended items were supposed to be a goal for players as well
  and all of these endgame rewards are most easily obtained via gold

then getting as much gold as possible is winning the game.

yeah i play basketball, i sometimes lose, i still enjoy the struggle, but enjoying basketball is not winning the game.

So yeah this isnt a sPVP discussion, till last patch, all of their rewards were self contained, aka the fastest way to progress in spvp was actually winning matches
GvG doesnt really exist, but if you mean WvW, It works because it has other goals that people who actually like WvW can seek to do. Like killing the enemy. It also has seperate reward tracks that reward you for playing WvW (world ranks). If Pve had more reward structures for playing the game, the TP wouldnt be an issue. The Tp issue mostly comes from players who realize that the best way to get cool items is to play the tp, and dont particularly enjoy playing the TP for whatever reason. If there were other ways to get what they want, where they could play the game, they would probably be happier about it.

They dont have to make loot farming competitive if they make it targeted, the market is already competitive. The problem is filling demand is not well focused. Sure you can solo some skelks for powerful blood, but you ll probably get just as much per hour, and other mats/loot/gold/skillpoints from doing a champ train. And you ll get even more reward per hour playing the TP, if your actually ok at it.
The game actually forces farmers to overproduce.

Mostly what they need to do is create a reason to actually run around doing hero/adventurer stuff. Im not saying you get nothing for adventuring at all, just that adventuring isnt really a very good way of getting anything of value.

And the guy soloing dungeons isnt getting very much for it all unless he is selling spots, and a lot of the players doing it are exploiting anyhow.

laokoko.7403:

all good, just saying I dont’ think people are complaining about flipping there. At least I dont’ think nearly as much. Even though you clearly think flipping is much worse in that game compare to GW2.

I don’t think you ever really understood what I was talking about. Their system is completely different from GW2, and much easier to manipulate. Most people play on one server so they don’t know what the prices for items there are like compared to other servers.

You can transfer servers for free in Rift (unlike GW2, SWTOR, WoW…) so it’s incredibly easy to make a lot of money by buying items on one server for cheap then transferring to another server where you sell them for a huge markup. The nature of GW2’s TP makes this impossible because every server feeds into the same TP.

Ignorance is bliss – if you don’t know the oak logs you bought for 20g each came from a different server where the seller bought them for 4g each, you think you got a good deal. If you knew the seller was making 5x what he paid for them, you might be a little upset about that.

On the other hand, here people complain about flippers making a 20% profit from player impatience instead of a 400% profit in other games.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

all good, just saying I dont’ think people are complaining about flipping there. At least I dont’ think nearly as much. Even though you clearly think flipping is much worse in that game compare to GW2.

I don’t think you ever really understood what I was talking about. Their system is completely different from GW2, and much easier to manipulate. Most people play on one server so they don’t know what the prices for items there are like compared to other servers.

You can transfer servers for free in Rift (unlike GW2, SWTOR, WoW…) so it’s incredibly easy to make a lot of money by buying items on one server for cheap then transferring to another server where you sell them for a huge markup. The nature of GW2’s TP makes this impossible because every server feeds into the same TP.

Ignorance is bliss – if you don’t know the oak logs you bought for 20g each came from a different server where the seller bought them for 4g each, you think you got a good deal. If you knew the seller was making 5x what he paid for them, you might be a little upset about that.

On the other hand, here people complain about flippers making a 20% profit from player impatience instead of a 400% profit in other games.

Maybe people there are just dumb so they dont’ bother complaining. Just saying people “dont’ complain” there.

It’s the part where I ask you if people complain there, and from memory your answer is a maybe or something. Regardless of what happened, people don’t choose to complain there but choose to complain on the GW2 forum.

Or the statistic dont’ matter. Since your opinion is only 5 people is complaining on the GW2 forum so it don’t matter. SO maybe the 0-1 person complaining there dont’ matter too.

maybe the other guy is right. Maybe GW2 players are more self entitled so people only complain here.

Personally I much prefer this system because my style and gameplay possibilities in terms of time. I played for a long time (since 2005) in WoW and in the last two years I found it frustrating that some content I were precluded due to lack of hours of gameplay. In GW2 instead of speculating with TP at the moment I can be competitive at the highest level on all fronts and it is clear that this is great for me.
But I understand perfectly that people how spends hours playing and has not the slightest advantage to do certain things like dungeon and farming, respect to the “Players of TP”.
The fact remains that if you have money at your disposal in GW2 you will allow to have the best equipment available, or significant advantages to get to it quickly; so even with the inclusion of content that would lead to reward certain something endgame, “Players of TP” would still have advantages and possibilities that others dont because the economy of this MMO is this.

laokoko.7403:

Maybe people there are just dumb so they dont’ bother complaining. Just saying people “dont’ complain” there.

It’s the part where I ask you if people complain there, and from memory your answer is a maybe or something. Regardless of what happened, people don’t choose to complain there but choose to complain on the GW2 forum.

I’ve never seen an MMO forum where people aren’t complaining about something.

It has nothing to do with being dumb, the nature of the market in Rift means that most players do not have any information to compare… here, you always see what the highest bid/lowest sale price is for a given item on any server.

In Rift, oak logs could cost 20g on server A and 4g on server B. A player on server A doesn’t think it’s unusual because they always cost around 20g. If he knew other players could buy them for 4g, do you think he would be upset that he’s been giving away money to someone who buys them on server B then transfers to server A to sell them to him?

Behellagh.1468:

For the love of Mike. Champ bags and like rewards inject NEW coin into the game’s economy. If you want to keep true inflation under control then your two choices is limit new coin entering the game or take more coin out through one of the sinks. In this case they balanced both sides of the equation by removing the repair cost sink while reducing the champ coin reward.

The Devs can control what a event rewards. They can’t control players who are willing to “pay” another (by accepting less) to sell the rewards they received for more coin.

This was disproven so many times i am tired of reposting it.
This post is only the propaganda from the TP Church.

There are several example to gold sinks… TP flipping is simply the worst.
Also balancing TP flipping wouldn t remove it but simply avoiding to inflate gold by wealth concentration.

You see a broken economy when people starts doing experiments wasting dozen thousands gold while Others struggle to get few hundred.

if you think this games have no gold sinks play some WWW.

Excessive Demand is never balanced…
That is the problem

If you need something you can t realistically obtain it without the TP and you have to feed the leeches on the TP.

Ask people in WWW that needed runes.

laokoko.7403:

Or the statistic dont’ matter. Since your opinion is only 5 people is complaining on the GW2 forum so it don’t matter. SO maybe the 0-1 person complaining there dont’ matter too.

maybe the other guy is right. Maybe GW2 players are more self entitled so people only complain here.

I cannot argue with your amazing insight and impervious logic. Like I said, ignorance is bliss…

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.

As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering

Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.

this is a great idea.. but those rewards Need to be FIX not RNG and they should be accountbound.. the Point in Special rewards is that they are Special and People can’t buy em with Gold.

They don’t Need to Change the TP they just Need to Change the game so there are Special Skins that are only avaiable to pve/ pvpers so rewards that Show you have done high end Content and not that you have spent 6k Gold to get it:) (Liadri / SAB Tribunal weapons ) are an example:)

phys.7689:

If winning the game is any activity that is playing the game, then sure you dont need the tp to win.

Which is the reality of the situation.

If winning the game is actually getting rewards/progress towards the end game.

You are confusing long term reward goals and winning, they are not the same. I wanted the Dusk in Kachiro painting item in SWG. Getting it was not me “winning”, that came from pvp, it was simply a vanity item to save up for long term, like legendaries.

and all of these endgame rewards are most easily obtained via gold

then getting as much gold as possible is winning the game.

No. Having endgame items available via gold simply creates a universal option. Getting said items faster than some other dude does not mean you have beaten him or won. Again you are confusing long term goals and “winning”.

yeah i play basketball, i sometimes lose, i still enjoy the struggle, but enjoying basketball is not winning the game.

And? You are proving my point with that analogy, not disproving it.

GvG doesnt really exist, but if you mean WvW, It works because it has other goals that people who actually like WvW can seek to do. Like killing the enemy. It also has seperate reward tracks that reward you for playing WvW (world ranks).

1. It does exist.
2. Pve has goals as well. i.e. dungeon soloing, boss soloing, speed running, record attempts and a vast myriad of other things people do/try to do (unarmored runs etc).

The Tp issue mostly comes from players who realize that the best way to get cool items is to play the tp, and dont particularly enjoy playing the TP for whatever reason. If there were other ways to get what they want, where they could play the game, they would probably be happier about it.

1. You are confusing “best” and “potentially fastest”.
2. There are other ways, make gold doing what you enjoy and buy them.

They dont have to make loot farming competitive if they make it targeted, the market is already competitive.

Competitve as in only one person gets the loot. You know, so you don’t break the games economy and all.

The problem is filling demand is not well focused. Sure you can solo some skelks for powerful blood, but you ll probably get just as much per hour, and other mats/loot/gold/skillpoints from doing a champ train.

Wrong.

Mostly what they need to do is create a reason to actually run around doing hero/adventurer stuff. Im not saying you get nothing for adventuring at all, just that adventuring isnt really a very good way of getting anything of value.

Define “adventuring” I can make a shed load from pve. Less than I can on the TP for sure, but more than enough to get luxury items should I want them.

And the guy soloing dungeons isnt getting very much for it all unless he is selling spots, and a lot of the players doing it are exploiting anyhow.

So he’s not getting much aside from 1. an elite level goal, 2. enjoyment and 3. potentially massive amounts of gold if he wants to sell.

Exploiters should not be entering into this conversation as they have nothing whatsoever to do with it.

Again, I’m all for adding in rewards for elite level content. Again people will qq about that.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.

As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering

Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.

this is a great idea.. but those rewards Need to be FIX not RNG and they should be accountbound.. the Point in Special rewards is that they are Special and People can’t buy em with Gold.

They don’t Need to Change the TP they just Need to Change the game so there are Special Skins that are only avaiable to pve/ pvpers so rewards that Show you have done high end Content and not that you have spent 6k Gold to get it:) (Liadri / SAB Tribunal weapons ) are an example:)

ya maybe if SAB skins have purple text, that’ll solve the problem. Which is a lol solution.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

Maybe people there are just dumb so they dont’ bother complaining. Just saying people “dont’ complain” there.

It’s the part where I ask you if people complain there, and from memory your answer is a maybe or something. Regardless of what happened, people don’t choose to complain there but choose to complain on the GW2 forum.

I’ve never seen an MMO forum where people aren’t complaining about something.

It has nothing to do with being dumb, the nature of the market in Rift means that most players do not have any information to compare… here, you always see what the highest bid/lowest sale price is for a given item on any server.

In Rift, oak logs could cost 20g on server A and 4g on server B. A player on server A doesn’t think it’s unusual because they always cost around 20g. If he knew other players could buy them for 4g, do you think he would be upset that he’s been giving away money to someone who buys them on server B then transfers to server A to sell them to him?

maybe rift need to charge people for server transfer. Ingenious solution.

laokoko.7403:

maybe rift need to charge people for server transfer. Ingenious solution.

It continues the rich tradition in these forums of offering solutions to problems that don’t exist by creating more problems.

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

maybe rift need to charge people for server transfer. Ingenious solution.

It continues the rich tradition in these forums of offering solutions to problems that don’t exist by creating more problems.

ok merge the trading post like gw2 does.

hey at least i dont’ think you are a gw2 fanboy any more. You think gw2 charging people to transfer is a problem.

LordByron.8369:

Behellagh.1468:

For the love of Mike. Champ bags and like rewards inject NEW coin into the game’s economy. If you want to keep true inflation under control then your two choices is limit new coin entering the game or take more coin out through one of the sinks. In this case they balanced both sides of the equation by removing the repair cost sink while reducing the champ coin reward.

The Devs can control what a event rewards. They can’t control players who are willing to “pay” another (by accepting less) to sell the rewards they received for more coin.

This was disproven so many times i am tired of reposting it.
This post is only the propaganda from the TP Church.

There are several example to gold sinks… TP flipping is simply the worst.
Also balancing TP flipping wouldn t remove it but simply avoiding to inflate gold by wealth concentration.

You see a broken economy when people starts doing experiments wasting dozen thousands gold while Others struggle to get few hundred.

if you think this games have no gold sinks play some WWW.

Excessive Demand is never balanced…
That is the problem

If you need something you can t realistically obtain it without the TP and you have to feed the leeches on the TP.

Ask people in WWW that needed runes.

See now you are talking crazy talk here.

First, what was disproved? That devs can’t control players to prevent them from giving potential earnings away to another? That the reduction of champ coin rewards didn’t come at the same time as the removal of the armor repair costs? Or that the two are balanced? Or is it that the devs can only control new coin being introduced into the game world?

I understand you object to the fact that a few can take earn significantly more money simply benefiting off of the majority’s poor TP habits. You believe that the majority is being swindled by this minority. That this minority, through the wealth they accumulated is ratcheting up the cost of popular items to earn even more wealth. Except only by using a tool that everyone has equal access too and just using it smarter than most. And that’s somehow unfair.

Every read Harrison Bergeron because you are sounding a lot like The Handicapper General.

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.

As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering

Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.

this is a great idea.. but those rewards Need to be FIX not RNG and they should be accountbound.. the Point in Special rewards is that they are Special and People can’t buy em with Gold.

They don’t Need to Change the TP they just Need to Change the game so there are Special Skins that are only avaiable to pve/ pvpers so rewards that Show you have done high end Content and not that you have spent 6k Gold to get it:) (Liadri / SAB Tribunal weapons ) are an example:)

I think the idea of items obtainable only from certain content and can not be sold is a great idea. But in PVP makes sense, because only counts the real ability of the player, but in PVE and WvW also equip is important and whit no money you can’t do it; so in the end who has the money can afford to do even that content while others players can’t. Said this, money in GW2 came from playing TP and we are at the start point.

vergna.8420:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.

As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering

Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.

this is a great idea.. but those rewards Need to be FIX not RNG and they should be accountbound.. the Point in Special rewards is that they are Special and People can’t buy em with Gold.

They don’t Need to Change the TP they just Need to Change the game so there are Special Skins that are only avaiable to pve/ pvpers so rewards that Show you have done high end Content and not that you have spent 6k Gold to get it:) (Liadri / SAB Tribunal weapons ) are an example:)

I think the idea of items obtainable only from certain content and can not be sold is a great idea. But in PVP makes sense, because only counts the real ability of the player, but in PVE and WvW also equip is important and whit no money you can’t do it; so in the end who has the money can afford to do even that content while others players can’t. Said this, money in GW2 came from playing TP and we are at the start point.

I agree that rewards in general can be optimized and worked on. Anet is in the process of it. But why discuss this in a topic that basically asks to nerf the tp?
If people think rewards are not good enough for pve/pvp/wvw, they should make a suggestion in the specific forums and not complain that some people make lots of gold on the tp. Profits from playing the tp scale nicely with the skill you have and punish you if you make mistakes. If thats a reward structure you would like to see implemented in other parts of the game, fair enough. Go make a suggestion about it in the appropriate forums but dont come here and complain about the tp.

laokoko.7403:

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

keep it going Tolunart, tell people GW2 got the best economy in the game.

And how other game sucks.

Thanx for giving me permission to continue expressing my opinion on a subject. That really means a lot to me.

i’d like you to point me to the rift forum where people are complaining about flipping there.

Flipping in Rift is definitely done; they even have an addon (Called BananAH) that will automatically search their auction house for any items below a certain percentage of what the current resale value is (think of it like a built in GW2Spidy that searches the ENTIRE TP for items below what their current resale value is automatically) and it will list all those items allowing you to buy them and relist them.

But it IS a different economy. For one thing, all good gear is Soulbound, and is either from quest rewards, Raids, dungeons, or “Deeps Lock Boxes” purchased off their Gem Store. The stuff you pick up out in the world and can buy/sell/trade would be equivalent to our “Green” items.

As far as mats go though, people flip those all the time. The addon makes it so simply though, that pretty much anyone can do it (and many do).

Wanze.8410:

vergna.8420:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.

As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering

Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.

this is a great idea.. but those rewards Need to be FIX not RNG and they should be accountbound.. the Point in Special rewards is that they are Special and People can’t buy em with Gold.

They don’t Need to Change the TP they just Need to Change the game so there are Special Skins that are only avaiable to pve/ pvpers so rewards that Show you have done high end Content and not that you have spent 6k Gold to get it:) (Liadri / SAB Tribunal weapons ) are an example:)

I think the idea of items obtainable only from certain content and can not be sold is a great idea. But in PVP makes sense, because only counts the real ability of the player, but in PVE and WvW also equip is important and whit no money you can’t do it; so in the end who has the money can afford to do even that content while others players can’t. Said this, money in GW2 came from playing TP and we are at the start point.

I agree that rewards in general can be optimized and worked on. Anet is in the process of it. But why discuss this in a topic that basically asks to nerf the tp?
If people think rewards are not good enough for pve/pvp/wvw, they should make a suggestion in the specific forums and not complain that some people make lots of gold on the tp. Profits from playing the tp scale nicely with the skill you have and punish you if you make mistakes. If thats a reward structure you would like to see implemented in other parts of the game, fair enough. Go make a suggestion about it in the appropriate forums but dont come here and complain about the tp.

True….

Southern.8973:

laokoko.7403:

tolunart.2095:

laokoko.7403:

keep it going Tolunart, tell people GW2 got the best economy in the game.

And how other game sucks.

Thanx for giving me permission to continue expressing my opinion on a subject. That really means a lot to me.

i’d like you to point me to the rift forum where people are complaining about flipping there.

Flipping in Rift is definitely done; they even have an addon (Called BananAH) that will automatically search their auction house for any items below a certain percentage of what the current resale value is (think of it like a built in GW2Spidy that searches the ENTIRE TP for items below what their current resale value is automatically) and it will list all those items allowing you to buy them and relist them.

But it IS a different economy. For one thing, all good gear is Soulbound, and is either from quest rewards, Raids, dungeons, or “Deeps Lock Boxes” purchased off their Gem Store. The stuff you pick up out in the world and can buy/sell/trade would be equivalent to our “Green” items.

As far as mats go though, people flip those all the time. The addon makes it so simply though, that pretty much anyone can do it (and many do).

I think several people point out already, I even said it myself. People only choose to complain on the GW2 forum. If everyone is happy on the GW2 forum, people wont’ be complaining.

I even said if SAB skins were purple instead of yellow we probably wont’ have this conversation myself.

Wanze.8410:

vergna.8420:

Patrikan Habaton.2548:

Rising Dusk.2408:

The only way ANet could make playing the game more rewarding than playing the TP would be to make end-game content with highly desired items that are so difficult to obtain (but reliably obtainable) that only a select few people can obtain them and then everyone else purchases them from those players.

As a hypothetical idea:
- Dungeon that requires 100 AR to even enter or you die and are ejected
- One team wipe = Ejected
- Bosses that are randomized and/or hyper-difficult requiring utmost timing precision and coordination
- Dungeon time limits
- Every mob respawns, meaning you have to keep moving or get murdered from lingering

Honestly, this sounds like more of a request for the content team than the TP team.

this is a great idea.. but those rewards Need to be FIX not RNG and they should be accountbound.. the Point in Special rewards is that they are Special and People can’t buy em with Gold.

They don’t Need to Change the TP they just Need to Change the game so there are Special Skins that are only avaiable to pve/ pvpers so rewards that Show you have done high end Content and not that you have spent 6k Gold to get it:) (Liadri / SAB Tribunal weapons ) are an example:)

I think the idea of items obtainable only from certain content and can not be sold is a great idea. But in PVP makes sense, because only counts the real ability of the player, but in PVE and WvW also equip is important and whit no money you can’t do it; so in the end who has the money can afford to do even that content while others players can’t. Said this, money in GW2 came from playing TP and we are at the start point.

I agree that rewards in general can be optimized and worked on. Anet is in the process of it. But why discuss this in a topic that basically asks to nerf the tp?
If people think rewards are not good enough for pve/pvp/wvw, they should make a suggestion in the specific forums and not complain that some people make lots of gold on the tp. Profits from playing the tp scale nicely with the skill you have and punish you if you make mistakes. If thats a reward structure you would like to see implemented in other parts of the game, fair enough. Go make a suggestion about it in the appropriate forums but dont come here and complain about the tp.

like i told you in the other thread the moderators move those threads here, this thread specifically was moved here from general discussion. Probably because the TP team is connected to, or maybe one and the same thing as the items/rewards teams. Which makes sense, because the items/rewards are generally designed with the TP in mind.

phys.7689:

like i told you in the other thread the moderators move those threads here, this thread specifically was moved here from general discussion. Probably because the TP team is connected to, or maybe one and the same thing as the items/rewards teams. Which makes sense, because the items/rewards are generally designed with the TP in mind.

It and others like it are moved here because they are called things like “getting rich off the TP” or “nerf the TP” and spend their time badmouthing the TP and the players that use it.

Fenrir.3609:

phys.7689:

like i told you in the other thread the moderators move those threads here, this thread specifically was moved here from general discussion. Probably because the TP team is connected to, or maybe one and the same thing as the items/rewards teams. Which makes sense, because the items/rewards are generally designed with the TP in mind.

It and others like it are moved here because they are called things like “getting rich off the TP” or “nerf the TP” and spend their time badmouthing the TP and the players that use it.

then shouldnt the mods rename it and put it in the appropriate place?

phys.7689:

Fenrir.3609:

phys.7689:

like i told you in the other thread the moderators move those threads here, this thread specifically was moved here from general discussion. Probably because the TP team is connected to, or maybe one and the same thing as the items/rewards teams. Which makes sense, because the items/rewards are generally designed with the TP in mind.

It and others like it are moved here because they are called things like “getting rich off the TP” or “nerf the TP” and spend their time badmouthing the TP and the players that use it.

then shouldnt the mods rename it and put it in the appropriate place?

No becasue the OP never mentioned rewards from other playstyles. Just becasue you start making off topic suggestions doesnt mean that a mod should rename the topic and move it.

phys.7689:

Fenrir.3609:

phys.7689:

like i told you in the other thread the moderators move those threads here, this thread specifically was moved here from general discussion. Probably because the TP team is connected to, or maybe one and the same thing as the items/rewards teams. Which makes sense, because the items/rewards are generally designed with the TP in mind.

It and others like it are moved here because they are called things like “getting rich off the TP” or “nerf the TP” and spend their time badmouthing the TP and the players that use it.

then shouldnt the mods rename it and put it in the appropriate place?

The part about “spend their time badmouthing the TP…” points to a rather large section of the OP and the following thread being about the TP.

Threads like this are moved here because they are primarily about qqing about the TP. They are not offering ways of improving dungeon, wvw, whatever reward structure. They are not offering ways of making gameplay more meaningful. They are simply moaning about the TP.

Strangely enough such threads get moved to the TP section of the forums (although it would be an improvement if they got moved straight to trash tbh).

If someone creates a specific thread about say dungeon rewards and posits ways of improving the rewards, content and adding new stuff. Then it is unlikely to be moved here.

There are currently fractal rewards thread on the dungeon forums. People in those threads are, you know, talking about fractals and rewards in them. Instead of qqing about the TP. Oddly enough, said threads have not been moved here as of yet.

If threads which provide reasoned and reasonable debate about how to improve things like dungeons rewards get moved here without being TP centric. Then I will be amongst the first to complain about it as it would be wrong to do as such.

Fenrir.3609:

phys.7689:

Fenrir.3609:

phys.7689:

like i told you in the other thread the moderators move those threads here, this thread specifically was moved here from general discussion. Probably because the TP team is connected to, or maybe one and the same thing as the items/rewards teams. Which makes sense, because the items/rewards are generally designed with the TP in mind.

It and others like it are moved here because they are called things like “getting rich off the TP” or “nerf the TP” and spend their time badmouthing the TP and the players that use it.

then shouldnt the mods rename it and put it in the appropriate place?

The part about “spend their time badmouthing the TP…” points to a rather large section of the OP and the following thread being about the TP.

Threads like this are moved here because they are primarily about qqing about the TP. They are not offering ways of improving dungeon, wvw, whatever reward structure. They are not offering ways of making gameplay more meaningful. They are simply moaning about the TP.

Strangely enough such threads get moved to the TP section of the forums (although it would be an improvement if they got moved straight to trash tbh).

If someone creates a specific thread about say dungeon rewards and posits ways of improving the rewards, content and adding new stuff. Then it is unlikely to be moved here.

There are currently fractal rewards thread on the dungeon forums. People in those threads are, you know, talking about fractals and rewards in them. Instead of qqing about the TP. Oddly enough, said threads have not been moved here as of yet.

If threads which provide reasoned and reasonable debate about how to improve things like dungeons rewards get moved here without being TP centric. Then I will be amongst the first to complain about it as it would be wrong to do as such.

actually in some release dungeon designers said they dont decide/know what drops and that the items/rewards guys decide that. So where do the items/rewards guys look for feedback.

phys.7689:

actually in some release dungeon designers said they dont decide/know what drops and that the items/rewards guys decide that. So where do the items/rewards guys look for feedback.

They will talk to the content design teams who pass on feedback from the players and look at the overall metrics they have.

Well that is how it should work, if it isn’t working like that (and let’s face it the dungeon subsection is a wasteland when it comes to red name responses), well that’s pretty sad but has no relation to the point I made about why threads like this are getting moved.

The threads that are moved here are moved here because they are TP centric. If you have specific ideas about how to improve dungeons and dungeon loot (for example) and refrain from spending your time banging on about the TP, then there is a high chance that your thread will not be moved to this section of the forums.

Even if you post such a thread here, or get it moved here (unlikely). It would be more constructive then trying to tack general reward structure debate into threads which are essentially just massive qq fests like the ones we have seen lately about tax et al.

phys.7689:

actually in some release dungeon designers said they dont decide/know what drops and that the items/rewards guys decide that. So where do the items/rewards guys look for feedback.

It could be in general discussion. Something like:

Thread topic: “[Suggestion] Ways to improve rewards throughout game”

Then, list ways to improve rewards throughout the game in the original post. It doesn’t have to be area specific, but if it is, include multiple areas. Many of the suggestions that are lost here in the BLTC threads are probably at least worth mentioning as a way to improve and/or change the current reward structure.

What I get most from these threads in the BLTC are that people are a) unhappy with not getting rewards as loot drops, regardless of where they play and b) the loot that is “worth” getting is tradable, so it makes it frustrating to try to “earn” the reward when you don’t know if the next guy bought it or earned it.

I know others have commented that reward structure changes should be placed in a suggestion thread, rather than ranting about how much gold people get from the TP. The main issue with ranting about how much gold other people have is that there is little to no direct effect on other players, other than jealousy, which isn’t a sound reason to change an effective way at trading between players.

Behellagh.1468:

That devs can’t control players to prevent them from giving potential earnings away to another?

The most difficult part of PvE aka Fractals drop accound bound exotics and ascended.
Also account bound skins.

Even the fractal T7 materials, the recipes and everything else is.

If you enter fractals you exit with stuff tied to your account mostly.
You cna t sell them you can t give for free.

They tried to make you get some gold from using your fractal rewards via crafting.
They failed since they made sure to include rare T6 in recipes so you still need to feed the TP.

That the reduction of champ coin rewards didn’t come at the same time as the removal of the armor repair costs?
Or that the two are balanced?

How often do you repair armor in dungeon?
once in 5 runs? or less?

Or is it that the devs can only control new coin being introduced into the game world?

Unless you prove me that TP is the only possible gold sink in a game i won t agree.
TP may be a gold sink but impcat the game economy in a negative way.

I understand you object to the fact that a few can take earn significantly more money simply benefiting off of the majority’s poor TP habits. You believe that the majority is being swindled by this minority. That this minority, through the wealth they accumulated is ratcheting up the cost of popular items to earn even more wealth. Except only by using a tool that everyone has equal access too and just using it smarter than most. And that’s somehow unfair.

I didn t say that.
I don t care how much oney do you earn.

I have some issues when to enter WWW i have to gift money to you because you bought all the runes as the live interview was released.

I have an issues with dev not fighting this behavior introducing recipes and stuff since they are really fast to decrease supply (see silk)…but NEVER do anything for the lack of.

I have a huge issue when development design apis to let people play the TP without logging in game and in the meantime negates US any way to get what we need out of the TP.

TL/DR
Why are you trying to discuss stuff i never said to prove me wrong?

LordByron.8369:

I have some issues when to enter WWW i have to gift money to you because you bought all the runes as the live interview was released.

Can you tell me which rune you mean? I checked the most pricy ones and all of them spiked harder after the patch (due to demand from the general player base) than during or shortly after the live interview (due to speculators buying up those runes).
So the high price right now cant be attributed to speculators but supply and demand.

Well… too bad. You either learn to flip/invest or just continue QQing while champ training or what ever people do nowadays. Or just buy gems and convert to gold.

every mmo ever made has trade flipping as the best way to make money, from runescape to wow and all the others in between playing the market is always the best because true wealth comes from people who dont need to be guided through things, richness belonges to innovaters and trend setters

I think the difference is people actually complain.

Sure every game have flipping. But people felt like to complain on the GW2 forum and not else where.

laokoko.7403:

I think the difference is people actually complain.

Sure every game have flipping. But people felt like to complain on the GW2 forum and not else where.

Most other games don’t have a dedicated forum for the trading post, so any complaints they would have would be instantly buried on the forum whereas here they stay at the top and thus appear to be more common. I’ve been a pretty avid forumgoer for all the MMOs I’ve played, I don’t notice a difference in the number of complaints here compared to other games, they are just easier to find.

mtpelion.4562:

laokoko.7403:

I think the difference is people actually complain.

Sure every game have flipping. But people felt like to complain on the GW2 forum and not else where.

Most other games don’t have a dedicated forum for the trading post, so any complaints they would have would be instantly buried on the forum whereas here they stay at the top and thus appear to be more common. I’ve been a pretty avid forumgoer for all the MMOs I’ve played, I don’t notice a difference in the number of complaints here compared to other games, they are just easier to find.

I’m quite a game addict, and probalby spend more time arguing on the forum because of my bad personality.

But honestly, I can’t find any mmorpg that have that many people complain about flipping beside gw2 and diablo 3. Maybe you can try name me a few, and find me topics on those forum, so I can check it.

I even asked on other mmorpg forum, and people just say no they dont’ complain there, and people here syas yes they complain here. I’ll try ask on mmorpg.com, maybe i’ll get more feedback.

I think other games do have people complain a bunch about economy, but usually it is not related flipping.

laokoko.7403:

I’m quite a game addict, and probalby spend more time arguing on the forum because of my bad personality.

But honestly, I can’t find any mmorpg that have that many people complain about flipping beside gw2 and diablo 3. Maybe you can try name me a few, and find me topics on those forum, so I can check it.

I even asked on other mmorpg forum, and people just say no they dont’ complain there, and people here syas yes they complain here. I’ll try ask on mmorpg.com, maybe i’ll get more feedback.

My apologies, I missed the part where you were referencing flipping in particular, so my post above was about the trading system as a whole. With specific regard to flipping, there won’t be as many complaints because most MMOs have an auction house system which nicely hides the flipping so the general playerbase doesn’t even know it is going on and thus would have no reason to complain.

phys.7689:

actually in some release dungeon designers said they dont decide/know what drops and that the items/rewards guys decide that. So where do the items/rewards guys look for feedback.

Generally speaking, they would be looking for constructive criticism within the context of a mature and reasonable discussion. Threads with titles like “getting rich off TP games” would be dismissed as pointless QQ and ignored by pretty much anyone with the authority to make the kinds of changes you’re asking for.

Wanze.8410:

linuxotaku.4731:

Wanze.8410:

I eagerly Await your suggestions.

How would you feel about an option for a buy/sell pricewhich is somewhere between the current buy and sell offers (I like the midpoint)? I would be willing to use that, but find it too tedious to enter the midpoint manually each time I want to sell something; I know it’s not needed right now, but I suspect that if it existed the buy/sell prices would be more likely to converge. (This does mean more efficient pricing, and less profit for flippers … at least for active markets.) The only real downside I see is that it might reduce the depth of orders … but I think prices would fluctuate enough during the day that you could still do range trading.

This exists already.

I mean a single button, rather than having to do it manually. At least, I don’t see it in my UI — am I missing some setting?

I see:
(1) sell to buy offer
(2a) match lowest sell offer
(2b) match my lowest sell offer (if above lowest sell offer)
(3) manual entry

(1) encourages selling below the actual value, but saves time. (2ab) is the converse — but markets do move, and will sometimes leave you with unsold items. (3) takes time. I would generally use (2a) since it’s fast, fairly efficient, and generally will sell; I’m saying that with a radio button to split the difference, I might use that, and that would probably tend to cause the gap to close.

I understand frustration with the amount of farming required for high-end items. I made infinite light, but there’s no way I could have stood farming all the cores/lodestones myself. The converse of this though is that those now drop everywhere in the game (via champ bags) — so people with no interest will occasionally get a drop and sell it on the TP. The result does encourage trade and that may have some value. But I can understand how it’s less satisfying (I refuse to buy precursors … so I spent a lot of money making the legend — more than it would have cost — and then wasted a lot more before giving up on incinerator & others).

laokoko.7403:

I think the difference is people actually complain.

Sure every game have flipping. But people felt like to complain on the GW2 forum and not else where.

I think the problem might be the fact that the forums makes it easy to brag about how much you can make by flipping, thereby enabling Jealousy Mode to activate among the Forum Warriors. In GW1, I would flip things like Dhuum’s Soul Reaper constantly and make a good 20 Ecto a pop. With Mini Dhuum, I was making 30 to 100 Ecto profit per flip when he first dropped. There was no room to brag on the Guru forums, because the only posts I cared about were the bidding threads. If people knew how much Ecto I was making on each flip, I would have destroyed my market.

Maybe if there was no official Black Lion Trading Company forums, there’d be less reasons to be jealous, since no one would have known how rich someone was, or how much money you can make by flipping. But then again, the complaints would probably just move to Reddit.

I feel that while yes it does take a measure of intelligence and patience and risk, it’s a little overkill getting 55k gold and monopolizing certain areas of the market.

ICEing.9237:

I feel that while yes it does take a measure of intelligence and patience and risk, it’s a little overkill getting 55k gold and monopolizing certain areas of the market.

In order to monopolize a market, every single player would have had to willingly sell their copy of that item to you at the price you offered. How is that overkill?

mtpelion.4562:

ICEing.9237:

I feel that while yes it does take a measure of intelligence and patience and risk, it’s a little overkill getting 55k gold and monopolizing certain areas of the market.

In order to monopolize a market, every single player would have had to willingly sell their copy of that item to you at the price you offered. How is that overkill?

That would be monopsony not monopoly.

Essence Snow.3194:

That would be monopsony not monopoly.

Which would be the only way you could then be the only seller. This is not real life. We cannot restrict the creation of goods for other players here.

Essence Snow.3194:

mtpelion.4562:

In order to monopolize a market, every single player would have had to willingly sell their copy of that item to you at the price you offered. How is that overkill?

That would be monopsony not monopoly.

No, it is neither. Since you are fond of definitions:

mo·nop·so·ny
noun
a market situation in which there is only one buyer.

mo·nop·o·ly
noun
the exclusive possession or control of the supply or trade in a commodity or service.

If you are going to argue the semantics of someone’s terminology, at least get the terms right.

What they were directly referring to was…..read it.

Essence Snow.3194:

If you are going to argue the semantics of someone’s terminology, at least get the terms right.

What they were directly referring to was…..read it.

He said every single player, not a single player.

brittitude.1983:

Essence Snow.3194:

If you are going to argue the semantics of someone’s terminology, at least get the terms right.

What they were directly referring to was…..read it.

He said every single player, not a single player.

And he said “to you” ergo “you” meaning one player, that he was referring to. You are looking at the wrong subject.

Essence Snow.3194:

brittitude.1983:

Essence Snow.3194:

If you are going to argue the semantics of someone’s terminology, at least get the terms right.

What they were directly referring to was…..read it.

He said every single player, not a single player.

And he said “to you” ergo “you” meaning one player, that he was referring to. You are looking at the wrong subject.

You got me. I read it incorrectly, thinking to be a monopoly you would have to be the only seller, rather than buying up all the supply, since it would need to be controlled and sold by one player. I guess I read what I thought he was saying, rather than what he did say.

Just to clarify:

In order to “monopolize” an item in a game where creation of supply cannot be controlled, you must control all of the existing supply.

In order to control all of the supply, you must first buy all of the supply.

Thus, you must first be the only buyer (as in, be the one who offers the most money in order to eliminate competition) before you can become the only seller.

It’s a two stage process that requires monopsony before becoming a monopoly.

EDITED to clarify my clarification.

mtpelion.4562:

Just to clarify:

In order to “monopolize” an item in a game where creation of supply cannot be controlled, you must control all of the existing supply.

In order to control all of the supply, you must first buy all of the supply.

Thus, you must first be the only buyer (as in, be the one who offers the most money in order to eliminate competition) before you can become the only seller.

It’s a two stage process that requires monopsony before becoming a monopoly.

EDITED to clarify my clarification.

Do you have any evidence that this is actually happening? The prices for precursors look like market forces, IMO — not manipulation.

With the exception of items which are no longer available (infinite hairstylist kit, hi!) it’s generally not possible to buy up all the supply. The Mystic Forge Conduit is another example — but those don’t account-bind, and while they have gone up in price — it doesn’t look like any individual has ownership of all supply.

Wanze.8410:

LordByron.8369:

I have some issues when to enter WWW i have to gift money to you because you bought all the runes as the live interview was released.

Can you tell me which rune you mean? I checked the most pricy ones and all of them spiked harder after the patch (due to demand from the general player base) than during or shortly after the live interview (due to speculators buying up those runes).
So the high price right now cant be attributed to speculators but supply and demand.

you kitten know what he meant the live interview showed exact changes to few runes and sigils and promise of nice changes to others so tp traders that watched the interview made tons of gold because they started ordering early before prices risen and cashed in after the patch when the prices spiked, I made like 500g on that myself (investing in sigils and runes around 800g, some earned me even up to 400% profit some made me lose 15% tax but overall I made a lot).

now how many players watch such interviews? prolly mostly the smart ones looking for tips how to cash in on the changes while average player is in wvw or whatever at the time of the livestream playing the actual game just to later get screwed for profit by the ones who bought most of supply early or had the foresight to start ordering early to sell to casual non tp saavy players who have no choice but to either pay the high price when everything goes up or not get his runes sigils at all while we profit of them.