Guild Wars 2

Personally I feel that pre’s (and by extension legendaries) are far too cheap, far too common and far too easy to get.

I agree with this post 100%. It doesn’t help the fact that the Mystic Toilet RNG got shadow nerfed. I put 4 exotic 80s in and I got a lvl 75 or 76 item back. It’s been happening a lot lately and it defers me from playing the game as I want to create the legendaries I want to wield. I don’t want to grind my life away just to save up a 1000 gold to buy the precursor then 1.5-2k more to buy everything else. At the moment, it is impossible since the chances of getting a precursor just keeps getting lower and lower. Also, I REMEMBER before the actual release of this game that the head dev or whatever said that this game, THIS GAME, won’t be grindy at all and that classes can wield a wider array of weapons than we currently have now. So what happened to that huh Arena Net? #emptypromises

The game isn’t grindy … Grindy games MAKE me do things I don’t want to do repeatedly for gear that is necessary to complete content. GW2 doesn’t do that.

Legendaries, precursor, ascended gear is a class of gear for people that WANT that extra performance boost who are WILLING to grind to get it. In fact, Anet even gives people an out from grinding these things with options as well. Anyone claiming the game is grindy has no idea what they are talking about.

Obtena.7952:

The game isn’t grindy … Grindy games MAKE me do things I don’t want to do repeatedly for gear that is necessary to complete content. GW2 doesn’t do that.

Legendaries, precursor, ascended gear is a class of gear for people that WANT that extra performance boost who are WILLING to grind to get it. In fact, Anet even gives people an out from grinding these things with options as well. Anyone claiming the game is grindy has no idea what they are talking about.

Yes, grindy games make you…you being key. Making a statement that others don’t know what they are talking about since their opinions are differing from yours, is obtuse to say the least.

Taygus.4571:

Behellagh.1468:

Taygus.4571:

One of the biggest things that bothers people about the pre, is WHY should they pay 1000g to someone who just got lucky.

Because you and nearly everybody else who wants one wasn’t lucky, that’s why it’s 1000g.

I don’t care tbh, I’m busy on my ascended crafting.

but the point still stands, people wouldn’t be bothered so much if they could go to npc and hand over 1000g for a pre, it’s paying others your hard in cash because they were lucky.

Sorry, my reply wasn’t just directed at you but to anyone who ask that question.

The devs want to limit supply. Easiest way to do that with any type of accuracy is to make it a random drop. While pseudo RNG isn’t truly random, it does pass the 1st test of even distribution across the entire range of outputs given enough samples. Therefore if they only want 1% of exotic weapons dropped to be precursors, they are relatively certain that over a large enough sample, it will be 1%. And since the drop is entirely random, the player receiving it may no want it so like any “junk” drop they look to sell it to buy one they would want. Which is why it’s not bound, because it’s a random drop, and why it’s priced similarly to other precursors.

Unless you think players should be getting IOUs as drops so they can trade to a precursor merchant for the weapon of their choice?

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

The game isn’t grindy … Grindy games MAKE me do things I don’t want to do repeatedly for gear that is necessary to complete content. GW2 doesn’t do that.

Legendaries, precursor, ascended gear is a class of gear for people that WANT that extra performance boost who are WILLING to grind to get it. In fact, Anet even gives people an out from grinding these things with options as well. Anyone claiming the game is grindy has no idea what they are talking about.

Yes, grindy games make you…you being key. Making a statement that others don’t know what they are talking about since their opinions are differing from yours, is obtuse to say the least.

I don’t get your point. GW2 isn’t grindy. It’s not even close. If people find it grindy, it’s because they CHOOSE to do content they don’t like to get loot they don’t need for content they want to do. Only the highest level fractals require you to repeat content many times but even then, it’s not a grind because if your doing lots of fractals, it’s only to get to higher level fractals because you want to, not because your chasing loot.

People that attribute being forced to grind for some bit of gear simply lack the willpower to tell themselves they don’t need it. If you don’t like grinding, once you realize you don’t need legendaries or ascended armor, you stop grinding and your game instantly becomes doing things you WANT to do, not doing things to GET things you think you need.

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

Obtena.7952:

The game isn’t grindy … Grindy games MAKE me do things I don’t want to do repeatedly for gear that is necessary to complete content. GW2 doesn’t do that.

Legendaries, precursor, ascended gear is a class of gear for people that WANT that extra performance boost who are WILLING to grind to get it. In fact, Anet even gives people an out from grinding these things with options as well. Anyone claiming the game is grindy has no idea what they are talking about.

Yes, grindy games make you…you being key. Making a statement that others don’t know what they are talking about since their opinions are differing from yours, is obtuse to say the least.

I don’t get your point. GW2 isn’t grindy. It’s not even close. If people find it grindy, it’s because they CHOOSE to do content they don’t like to get loot they don’t need for content they want to do. Only the highest level fractals require you to repeat content many times but even then, it’s not a grind because if your doing lots of fractals, it’s only to get to higher level fractals because you want to, not because your chasing loot.

People that attribute being forced to grind for some bit of gear simply lack the willpower to tell themselves they don’t need it. If you don’t like grinding, once you realize you don’t need legendaries or ascended armor, you stop grinding and your game instantly becomes doing things you WANT to do, not doing things to GET things you think you need.

My point is that your opinion is not the authority on whether or not something is considered grindy. It’s very much the same as saying that a certain food tastes good for everyone because it tastes good to you….ie…..all opinion and a matter of personal preference

you all made a big mistake replying to someone that (1) doesn’t speak English properly and (2) doesn’t understand basic economic principles.

as long as people like OP refuse to understand that (1) Anet controls the supply of desirable items and that (2) Anet continues to pursue inflationary economic practices, jealousy and irrationality will continue to run rampant.

Essence Snow.3194:

My point is that your opinion is not the authority on whether or not something is considered grindy.

That doesn’t detract from my argument. Still, because your trolling, I will restate so I’m not going to be attacked by pedantic arguments by reference to your MMO dictionary.

You can get whatever you want simply by doing what activity you enjoy that provides rewards in this game. It’s just a matter of time. Therefore, it would be stupid for someone to complain about having to do something they don’t like, repeated, to get a thing they think they need when they don’t need it. Hence, arguments like “GW2 is grindy because grinding is the only way I can get what I need” are dumb.

If you still don’t get it, feel free to tell me what you define as grindy (or better, what you think the poster that I was responding to considers grindy) so I know your not just trolling again.

Obtena.7952:

Essence Snow.3194:

My point is that your opinion is not the authority on whether or not something is considered grindy.

That doesn’t detract from my argument. Still, because your trolling, I will restate so I’m not going to be attacked by pedantic arguments by reference to your MMO dictionary.

You can get whatever you want simply by doing what activity you enjoy that provides rewards in this game. It’s just a matter of time. Therefore, it would be stupid for someone to complain about having to do something they don’t like, repeated, to get a thing they think they need when they don’t need it. Hence, arguments like “GW2 is grindy because I need X” are dumb.

I does precisely that. Not only does it do that, but you try to counter debate by using the same premise as that you are countering, then say it’s dumb. In other words you are saying the very same about yourself, which is rather amusing to say the least.

In layman’s you are arguing along such lines: You are wrong because blue is a horrible color. Your counter that my opinion about the color blue is not a basis of authority is invalid because it is an opinion. My opinion is correct. Opinions other than mine are dumb because blue is indeed a horrible color.

Can you see how that doesn’t quite work?

Thuggernaut.1250:

you all made a big mistake replying to someone that (1) doesn’t speak English properly and (2) doesn’t understand basic economic principles.

as long as people like OP refuse to understand that (1) Anet controls the supply of desirable items and that (2) Anet continues to pursue inflationary economic practices, jealousy and irrationality will continue to run rampant.

What inflationary economic practices?

Essence Snow.3194:

Can you see how that doesn’t quite work?

Like I said, if you want to argue the ‘grindy’ aspect of the game, go ahead and actually post something worth talking about. You got my thoughts on the topic.

Just once I’d like one of these threads to not get swarmed by internet Libertarians worshiping the free market, using “entitled” as a pejorative, and telling people to pull themselves up by their virtual bootstraps.

Once.

Just once I’d like one of these threads to not get swarmed by Occupy Wall street types who believes that by purchasing the game they are entitled to any item in the game regardless of the inherent rarity the developers assigned to the item at design time.

Once.

I crafted my Twilight 6 weeks ago – I had to sell Kraitkin for 2000g, buy Dusk for 1027g. The price seemed ridiculous for me. When I see 1540+ gold forDusk, I just lolz and never consider crafting another legendary…. hell, I almost don’t even play anymore Anet should live up to its promises.

2 years ago 100gem 20s now 14g :P so people sell precursors for 1k5 and legendary for 4k to buy gems that rised 7000% from 300 to 1400 its only its still 15x cheapper. :P

Hyper Cutter.9376:

Just once I’d like one of these threads to not get swarmed by internet Libertarians worshiping the free market, using “entitled” as a pejorative, and telling people to pull themselves up by their virtual bootstraps.

Once.

Behellagh.1468:

Just once I’d like one of these threads to not get swarmed by Occupy Wall street types who believes that by purchasing the game they are entitled to any item in the game regardless of the inherent rarity the developers assigned to the item at design time.

Once.

Is there really no middle ground between these two views? Is it entitlement to ask for craftable precursors we were promised?

NO, but it is entitlement to ask that craftable precursors be added according to impatient players timetable. Anet never said when it would happen but it’s not some game breaking issue either, so I don’t imagine it’s that high on their TODO list. Though if it’s not, I would like to also know that as well.

I tend to find it odd, that people always claim people want something for no work, because they want a different method to achieve it.

I will also point out that the amount of “work” currently required is fairly relative, since some people make 100 gold a day in 4 hours play and some make 2 gold a day in 4 hours play.

Obtena.7952:

NO, but it is entitlement to ask that craftable precursors be added according to impatient players timetable. Anet never said when it would happen but it’s not some game breaking issue either, so I don’t imagine it’s that high on their TODO list. Though if it’s not, I would like to also know that as well.

you can call it entitlement, but regardless asking for something to be dealt with within 8 months of your own public timetable, is not really crazy, and in fact pretty normal.

Hell, asking for it in a week is normal … but it’s not reasonable. How fast something is addressed isn’t just a function of time, it’s also dependent on how critical it is to a functioning game … craftable precursors are NOT critical to a functioning game.

Obtena.7952:

NO, but it is entitlement to ask that craftable precursors be added according to impatient players timetable. Anet never said when it would happen but it’s not some game breaking issue either, so I don’t imagine it’s that high on their TODO list. Though if it’s not, I would like to also know that as well.

Buttercup.5871:

Colin Johanson: “The other thing that you’ll see this year is you will [Colin’s emphasis] see the ability to build a precursor. It’s not going to be next week, it’ll probably be – you know – as we get closer to the end of the year, but we’re absolutely going to add that support so that you can make your own precursor and feel like you’re making progress towards putting one of those together. Very likely it’s going to be through crafting, we haven’t completely finalized that, but I think it’s more than likely where that’s all going to drop in.”

Pax, 3 September 2013.
http://youtu.be/Jy7CcwnfUdU
See 13:25 to 13:50.

They changed their minds … everyone can keep referring to that post all they want but clearly, it doesn’t mean crap. I also seen a post (not going to find it) where some Anet rep said they are rethinking how to introduce alternative approach to craftable precursors. That statement was made after the link you provided.

I think if you stop cherrypicking your quotes to support the QQ, you get a more realistic view of how Anet is approaching this issue. Frankly, they should just drop it because it’s not actually that important.

Obtena.7952:

They changed their minds … everyone can keep referring to that post all they want but clearly, it doesn’t mean crap. I also seen a post (not going to find it) where some Anet rep said they are rethinking how to introduce alternative approach to craftable precursors. That statement was made after the link you provided.

I think if you stop cherrypicking your quotes to support the QQ, you get a more realistic view of how Anet is approaching this issue. Frankly, they should just drop it because it’s not actually that important.

Well, I wasn’t even playing the game at that time so /shrug.

But, you’ll have to forgive me if I side with the people who care to cite their sources over the guy who supports his arguments with “i remember this one time”.

It just strikes me as wrong. When 2 people can say run a dungeon together and one person earns 1k gold and another 1-2gold. It just seems like too big of a separation based on nothing but luck. I’d have no issues if they were only accessible through the forge though, as that’s spending money to make money. The random luck though just strikes me as odd/wrong.

Obtena.7952:

They changed their minds … everyone can keep referring to that post all they want but clearly, it doesn’t mean crap. I also seen a post (not going to find it) where some Anet rep said they are rethinking how to introduce alternative approach to craftable precursors. That statement was made after the link you provided.

I think if you stop cherrypicking your quotes to support the QQ, you get a more realistic view of how Anet is approaching this issue. Frankly, they should just drop it because it’s not actually that important.

pretty normal when you change your mind, people will have an expectation. There is no business or relationship, where someone can say they are going to do something by a certain time, and it doesnt arrive within 8 months of that day, and people dont bring it up.

Thats the normal and expected behavior. There are reasons, which things get delayed, that doesnt change the fact that it has been delayed, and it doesnt make people wrong for having expectations.

Those expectations need to change when they aren’t fulfilled. It was a bad thing for Colin to not deliver on this. At the same time, when it’s not delivered, it’s also not unreasonable for people to use that grey matter between their ears to think why that might be.

Obtena.7952:

Those expectations need to change when they aren’t fulfilled. It was a bad thing for Colin to not deliver on this. At the same time, when it’s not delivered, it’s also not unreasonable for people to use that grey matter between their ears to think why that might be.

Im just saying anytime you create an expectation that you will do something, until you deliver, people will expect it, and probably ask for it. Unless anet says its no longer in the works, then people just have to accept it isnt going to happen, and do what they will with that information.

But until anet gives another date, or delivers the project, people will continue to ask, what is up with that thing you said you were going to do. To be honest, thats what they should do, Im not saying terrorize them, but yeah if someone said they were going to give you something you desired, it makes sense for you to ask them when they are going to do it, when they are late.

They have a FAQ page that they could add a section about precursors and keep us all up to date… “while we did intend to make craftable precursors at one point after further discussion we decided against it. Currently we feel blah blah blah blah”

And using the grey matter between my ears I could make 2 assumptions both being just as valid as the other. Either they changed their minds. Or they’re just be slow. In my experience both are things that happen with MMOs. IE in EQ we had been promised Epic skins for our weapons, well we didn’t see them released for like 2+ years after they were announced. Initially they were debating on how, then a new dev decided to make special quests for each one and was able to finish most of them while he was new before he got wrapped up doing his normal work, so we didn’t end up seeing them for 2 full expansion cycles after they were first announced as something they wanted to do.

Until we see a dev quote about it there’s no correct conclusion we could come to.

phys.7689:

you can call it entitlement, but regardless asking for something to be dealt with within 8 months of your own public timetable, is not really crazy, and in fact pretty normal.

They haven’t forgotten it, the issue was addressed with the April update. The wardrobe system created instability in the TP and this was considered too much to add instability from more precursors. The new system will cause everything associated with Legendaries to dramatically increase in price, and both at once would make things go crazy.

The wardrobe affects every player, the Legendary process only a small percentage, so it was decided to delay Legendaries in favor of the wardrobe. Demanding it won’t make it happen any sooner than they are ready to release it.

NEW RECORD, 1740g.

No, you missed the short time it was 1850g earlier today. Or the time today it was at 1450g.

The joys of a small supply spread across a large price range. As supply drops below a certain threshold, it exposes more extreme prices.

Zoxea.9564:

NEW RECORD, 1740g.

Yes because the price someone (or a few people) lists for it must be the true price. I can make it say 5000 gold if you’d like. It most likely trades lower than that and isn’t captured by gw2spidy or gw2tp.

Sorry, NEW RECORD, 1850g.

Zoxea.9564:

Sorry, NEW RECORD, 1850g.

Record is 2000g a couple of months ago, get your facts strait.

There are some weeks / months, the average price was 1540g? Oh, wait..

Precursor, 300, 800,1540 now 1850g

That only means it’s in demand. Sorry, but all is working as intended. You need to pay the price for an item with this high of a demand.

Edit – Just wanted to note that your obsession with this one Luxury item seems a bit much. Perhaps instead of complaining about the price, you go out and make one yourself? You just need to toss 4 Rare or Exotic Greatswords into the MF, and pray that RNG favors you. This is what we all do.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

That only means it’s in demand. Sorry, but all is working as intended. You need to pay the price for an item with this high of a demand.

Edit – Just wanted to note that your obsession with this one Luxury item seems a bit much. Perhaps instead of complaining about the price, you go out and make one yourself? You just need to toss 4 Rare or Exotic Greatswords into the MF, and pray that RNG favors you. This is what we all do.

Disclaimer: I’ve bought a precursor from the trading post, made a legendary and I got an additional precursor from a drop a couple weeks ago, and I still think the system is broken.

There is nothing “legendary” about an item that takes an insane amount of luck or hundreds of dollars worth of real world money to acquire. What could have been a cool symbol of accomplishment in the game is more often than not a slap in the face to the players who have spent hundreds of hours and gold in a futile attempt to win a precursor in the brutal and unforgiving lottery that is the mystic forge.

When I see people with legendary weapons, I’m not impressed. I usually think to myself, “Wow they’re lucky” or “Wow, they must be loaded” when really it should have been “Wow, they’ve really accomplished a lot in Guild Wars 2.” The prestige of these weapons has been tarnished for a long time.

Yes, you’re right. It is luxury item. It’s also a gold sink and a brilliant way to slowly bleed players of money and time because of the forced scarcity. Why isn’t there a way to craft precursors? Like you said, the system is working as intended.

Players will either flush tons of gold down the mystic toilet gambling for a precursor or keep on converting those gems to gold until they finally have enough to buy one from the trading post. Either way, it’s a win/win for ArenaNet.

We will be able to craft precursors when ArenaNet figures out a way for it to be more profitable than the system we have now.

AlphaNeonic.1925:

There is nothing “legendary” about an item that takes an insane amount of luck or hundreds of dollars worth of real world money to acquire.

…..

Players will either flush tons of gold down the mystic toilet gambling for a precursor or keep on converting those gems to gold until they finally have enough to buy one from the trading post. Either way, it’s a win/win for ArenaNet.

People are not buying gems and converting to gold as frequently as you appear to be suggesting. You also completely ignore that people simple play the game and farm the gold.

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Yes, you’re right. It is luxury item. It’s also a gold sink and a brilliant way to slowly bleed players of money and time because of the forced scarcity. Why isn’t there a way to craft precursors? Like you said, the system is working as intended.

What else is there to spend gold on this game? Let’s say they implement a system that requires as much time to earn one as it would to farm the gold to buy one. Would you still have a problem?

Ayrilana.1396:

AlphaNeonic.1925:

There is nothing “legendary” about an item that takes an insane amount of luck or hundreds of dollars worth of real world money to acquire.

…..

Players will either flush tons of gold down the mystic toilet gambling for a precursor or keep on converting those gems to gold until they finally have enough to buy one from the trading post. Either way, it’s a win/win for ArenaNet.

People are not buying gems and converting to gold as frequently as you appear to be suggesting. You also completely ignore that people simple play the game and farm the gold.

AlphaNeonic.1925:

Yes, you’re right. It is luxury item. It’s also a gold sink and a brilliant way to slowly bleed players of money and time because of the forced scarcity. Why isn’t there a way to craft precursors? Like you said, the system is working as intended.

What else is there to spend gold on this game? Let’s say they implement a system that requires as much time to earn one as it would to farm the gold to buy one. Would you still have a problem?

Well first, as far as I know, we don’t have any stats on what people are spending money on except that converting gold to gems has become increasingly and consistently more expensive since the game’s release. Making gold is a lot easier than it was when the game was released sure, but you also get far less from the conversion.

What else is there to spend money on? Ascended crafting, new items in the gem shop, both style and convenience, new skins released every few months, etc… There are tons of things in the game that cost money. None of them are necessary of course but let’s throw that argument out. The game itself isn’t necessary. This is all about a balance between time spent and rewards earned. If it works, Anet makes money and the players are happy. Everyone wins.

As far as a system to earn one that took as much time as it takes to farm the gold? Yes, yes a thousand times yes I would be for this.

Quest chains, lore, a big old checklist of having to complete every single dungeon and every heart in a “hard more”, a story behind the legendary you seek… I would LOVE that and quite honestly, I’d put money toward it. It makes a lot more sense then “Hey, I found this weapon… maybe if you put it in the forge with all this other stuff (check the wiki) you’ll get it back with a cool skin”

It would be a lot more fun than running the same dungeons or doing the same events hundreds of times over.

This is only going to get worse if they add more legendaries. Suddenly the chances at the precursor you want starts dropping rapidly. So if there are 4 different 1H sword precursors for example, you go from 100% chance of a 1H sword precursor being the one you want to a 25% chance.

That is why I think some sort of token/currency system (like everything else) is needed. If its just random, then every time they release a new legendary all the people who spent all the time to get an existing one are going to be miffed. I for one am holding off, as I want a 1H sword ankitten ot entirely sold on Bolt.

But really, legendaries lost all meaning when they became tradeable.

Gotejjeken.1267:

But really, legendaries lost all meaning when they became tradeable.

They have always been tradeable, so they never had any meaning?

Legendaries still have a meaning to me. Just saying.