Guild Wars 2

mrstealth.6701:

It’s been quite obvious that this is happening for a while now. And it’s not just precursors, there is quite a bit of it in minipets as well. A guildmate noticed a few weeks ago that some corrupted weapon prices had mysteriously shot up by over 20g, while the cost of the lodestones/precursor weapons had not changed. I believe prices have restabilizd since, but we assumed some market manipulation was invovled in the price jump.

The market setup in GW2 just makes it way too easy for a single person to control 100% of the supply of a rare item. With a few clicks, every available item is now yours. And any new listings put up are most likely going to match your price or undercut it by a tiny amount in order to be listed first.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/14923 — Corrupted Avenger.
There was in fact 2 spikes that I can see. If one looks at the curve as a whole however, it is remarkably smooth. That tells me that while it is possible to take advantage of short term supply issues to take advantage of impulse buyers, the price will rapidly drop to it’s expected level.

I find it interesting that there is some significant downward pressure on this item now.

Taking advantage of lowered supply to buy low and sell high is not manipulation. It’s smart business, no player has a monopoly on information or supply. Since no player can control supply, the price will approach the market value again.

Hendo.4671:

mrstealth.6701:

It’s been quite obvious that this is happening for a while now. And it’s not just precursors, there is quite a bit of it in minipets as well. A guildmate noticed a few weeks ago that some corrupted weapon prices had mysteriously shot up by over 20g, while the cost of the lodestones/precursor weapons had not changed. I believe prices have restabilizd since, but we assumed some market manipulation was invovled in the price jump.

The market setup in GW2 just makes it way too easy for a single person to control 100% of the supply of a rare item. With a few clicks, every available item is now yours. And any new listings put up are most likely going to match your price or undercut it by a tiny amount in order to be listed first.

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/14923 — Corrupted Avenger.
There was in fact 2 spikes that I can see. If one looks at the curve as a whole however, it is remarkably smooth. That tells me that while it is possible to take advantage of short term supply issues to take advantage of impulse buyers, the price will rapidly drop to it’s expected level.

I find it interesting that there is some significant downward pressure on this item now.

Taking advantage of lowered supply to buy low and sell high is not manipulation. It’s smart business, no player has a monopoly on information or supply. Since no player can control supply, the price will approach the market value again.

good business for the individual does not equal good business for the world. Uncontrolled speculation can cause a lot of problems in an economy as a whole.

Vol.5241:

Ald.9418:

Vol.5241:

ITT: People who want everything handed to them with no effort at all.

Buying gold takes effort folks. You’ve heard it here.

The sooner players like you realize that players like me want longer quest chains requiring more effort than just farming or buying gold, the sooner we can move past silly comments like the above.

The fact that players had legendaries in the first month speaks volumes as to how ridiculous and unlegendary the entire process is.

It took me 4 months of legit play to finish my legendary. Farming gold is not legendary. I’m sorry, it’s not. Any system that allows a player to buy their way to the top, be it cosmetic or not, is terrible.

Right, let’s give everyone one long quest to get their legendary so that everyone will run around with one.

You happy about that?

If the quest was extremely challenging and took a long time to complete, then there would be a very small amount of people with them. If would just mean the ones with them are the people with a lot of skill/luck/good team mates rather than the ones with a lot of money. Besides the way it is now, anyone can get one if they just play long enough and store the gold/mats.

So I would like to thank the dude for talking about the energizer. I got it to drop from a week or two ago and thought about just holding it till price goes higher (was on 25g buy) or I can use it.

Big thanks.

phys.7689:

good business for the individual does not equal good business for the world. Uncontrolled speculation can cause a lot of problems in an economy as a whole.

However the speculation doesn’t seem to be uncontrolled, most items I’ve looked at seem to be fairly smooth in demand curves. The volatility comes when either supply or demand spikes. The market then seems to reset itself, to me this shows a market that is pretty fair.

evo.8640:

Might want to go back and edit up all your posts to actually reflect what I’m quoting you here on.

I can’t apologize to someone who fashions back to the tricorn hat.

No need to fret, simply more careful reading on your part will help to prevent further misinterpretation and undue confusion over what you are responding to. Its a simple solution

Feni.4306

Too late already happened. The Energizer has been 32g with 25g buyouts since karka event and now that it’s one of the last items I need for moot I decided to buy one but they all disappeared and re-appeared for 50g+, trying to decide if I should just buy one now before it re-appears again as 200g+. Not sure when it happened, but last night they were still 25g.

I’m definitely done with legendarys after I finish The Moot. I’ll just stick to working on other awesome looking gear like the anomaly or full T3’s.

No, it has not happened. When I gave my Energizer example, there were 20 listed that could have bought out for roughly 900 gold. While some were listed for as cheap as 25gold, the opposite end of the spectrum had others listed for nearly 100 gold (there were only like 2 in this category). If manipulation was in play, I asked why haven’t ALL of them been bought out and relisted for 200 gold each? As we see, that hasn’t happened, and still hasn’t happened.

All that occurred was that the two cheapest (25g) forefront Energizer’s inevitably got bought up, thus bringing forward the next in line which were minimally higher priced ones (50g), no surprise here, that is how the TP works, this is not manipulation.

If the whole stock (18+ Energizers) disappeared and reappeared for 200 gold each, then this theory might have more credibility. Until then, its unsubstantiated speculation and guessing.

I checked the list, there were not 2, but plenty listed at lower prices, and they all have been relisted

Sunreva.8714:

No need to fret, simply more careful reading on your part will help to prevent further misinterpretation and undue confusion over what you are responding to. Its a simple solution

No, it has not happened. When I gave my Energizer example, there were 20 listed that could have bought out for roughly 900 gold. While some were listed for as cheap as 25gold, the opposite end of the spectrum had others listed for nearly 100 gold (there were only like 2 in this category). If manipulation was in play, I asked why haven’t ALL of them been bought out and relisted for 200 gold each? As we see, that hasn’t happened, and still hasn’t happened.

All that occurred was that the two cheapest (25g) forefront Energizer’s inevitably got bought up, thus bringing forward the next in line which were minimally higher priced ones (50g), no surprise here, that is how the TP works, this is not manipulation.

If the whole stock (18+ Energizers) disappeared and reappeared for 200 gold each, then this theory might have more credibility. Until then, its unsubstantiated speculation and guessing.

Oh I’ve read. You’ve let your hands get ahead of your brain. Perhaps getting that A.D.D. in check might prevent these possible slip-ups in the future. After all, it is the simple solution.

You clearly should go back and re-read what you write. When 15 Dusks left the TP within the same very minute and hundreds if not thousands of players were talking about it, that somehow it’s not remotely credible to you. But because you’re now talking about Energizer, such a scenario could be credible. Even in the midst of other pieces of information that bolster that. And completely apart from my own personal knowledge of the event.

Last I checked, Moot isn’t in desire. Why manipulate an item that no one really wants? The very same reason why no one is manipulating a few other choice precursors. Most of the legendarys they are used for look like kitten. It’s not rocket science.

It’s interesting that in the end I still need 100 more skillpoints to finish my sunrise while I have the most expensive gold parts of it – aka gift of sunrise and dawn..
and no I didn’t put a copper in this game unless you count 49.99£ I had to pay to play it :P

Iehova.9518:

I just hope precursors stealthily become account bound so the people who hoard precursors for no other reason than to manipulate the market get screwed.

I absolutely LOVE this idea

It would totally bone gold farmers and tp players who get a kick out of the misery of the vast majority of the playerbase.

ANET PLEASE DO THIS!

plasmacutter.2709:

Iehova.9518:

I just hope precursors stealthily become account bound so the people who hoard precursors for no other reason than to manipulate the market get screwed.

I absolutely LOVE this idea

It would totally bone gold farmers and tp players who get a kick out of the misery of the vast majority of the playerbase.

ANET PLEASE DO THIS!

The problem with this idea is that it punishes those lucky few that get a precursor as a random drop if they have no intention of making the associated legendary.

Sunreva.8714:

No, it has not happened. When I gave my Energizer example, there were 20 listed that could have bought out for roughly 900 gold. While some were listed for as cheap as 25gold, the opposite end of the spectrum had others listed for nearly 100 gold (there were only like 2 in this category). If manipulation was in play, I asked why haven’t ALL of them been bought out and relisted for 200 gold each? As we see, that hasn’t happened, and still hasn’t happened.

All that occurred was that the two cheapest (25g) forefront Energizer’s inevitably got bought up, thus bringing forward the next in line which were minimally higher priced ones (50g), no surprise here, that is how the TP works, this is not manipulation.

If the whole stock (18+ Energizers) disappeared and reappeared for 200 gold each, then this theory might have more credibility. Until then, its unsubstantiated speculation and guessing.

Most of what you claimed didn’t happen is exactly what happened except they were put back on for 60+ instead of 200. Apparently it has no credibility if they aren’t 200g? If you still see this as guessing and speculation then…..well, I really don’t know what to say to that.

plasmacutter.2709:

Iehova.9518:

I just hope precursors stealthily become account bound so the people who hoard precursors for no other reason than to manipulate the market get screwed.

I absolutely LOVE this idea

It would totally bone gold farmers and tp players who get a kick out of the misery of the vast majority of the playerbase.

ANET PLEASE DO THIS!

It’s one thing to be frustrated at how hard it is to acquire something, but you’re just advocating that a bunch of people lose a lot of their money or value in a way that does not benefit you or anyone else.

Impoverishing others does not enrich yourself.

Another way to look at it is this – if a man makes a million dollars, he has gained something actually much more valuable than money – he’s gained the knowledge of what it takes to make a million dollars.

The person you can become by doing something extraordinary cannot be taken away.

Astraea.6075:

plasmacutter.2709:

Iehova.9518:

I just hope precursors stealthily become account bound so the people who hoard precursors for no other reason than to manipulate the market get screwed.

I absolutely LOVE this idea

It would totally bone gold farmers and tp players who get a kick out of the misery of the vast majority of the playerbase.

ANET PLEASE DO THIS!

The problem with this idea is that it punishes those lucky few that get a precursor as a random drop if they have no intention of making the associated legendary.

Just put an NPC that allows you to trade a precursor for any of the others. So that when you get a precursor it’s account bound and you can trade it for any other you want.

It happened again http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29185 . The price of dusk has been dropping over the last week because of the change in the dragon chests. Well I went to bed saturday night with dusk being around 630g, I wake up sunday morning and they are all 760g and more without any change in the supply quantity. The only plausible explanation for such an increase in that short amount of time is someone bought a good portion of them and relisted for 130g more.

I finished my gifts about 1 month and a half ago, since then I’ve been following dusk price and playing the tp to get money to buy dusk (wich I REALLY hate doing as spending 30 min per day flipping rares is so boring and feels like work, not gaming! But it’s the only way if you want to buy a precursor and aren’t lucky to get a drop). I’ve made about 400g and been waiting till the price of dusk drops from an event like the karka but this morning when I saw this I just though screw that. I’ll spend my money on mats for vision of the mist, the anomaly and whisperblade to gear my alt mesmer. I’m not buying dusk and thus helping gold sellers and market manipulator. I’ll get Twilight if dusk drops or if they implement a scavenger hunt.

Now my concern with a market that is so easily manipulated: will every shinny item that gets released in the futur of the game get so easily and completely manipulated? If so I’d rather go play another mmo…

Skolar.4801:

The only plausible explanation for such an increase in that short amount of time is someone bought a good portion of them and relisted for 130g more.

Of course it is.

760g * (0.85) = 646g. 16g per dusk.

Surely the evil market manipulators determined that the best way to tie up 630g * (Dusks) of capital was to use it to slowly make 16g per dusk over a few days.

How do you explain to have such an increase over night when the supply is stable and the price has been slowly dropping or been stable for more than a week?

LFk.1408:

Skolar.4801:

The only plausible explanation for such an increase in that short amount of time is someone bought a good portion of them and relisted for 130g more.

Of course it is.

760g * (0.85) = 646g. 16g per dusk.

Surely the evil market manipulators determined that the best way to tie up 630g * (Dusks) of capital was to use it to slowly make 16g per dusk over a few days.

Plus the 38g to list each one. Everyone knows evil market manipulators can’t add.

LFk.1408:

Skolar.4801:

The only plausible explanation for such an increase in that short amount of time is someone bought a good portion of them and relisted for 130g more.

Of course it is.

760g * (0.85) = 646g. 16g per dusk.

Surely the evil market manipulators determined that the best way to tie up 630g * (Dusks) of capital was to use it to slowly make 16g per dusk over a few days.

Well if you have a supply of a couple of dusks, increasing the price by 130g will increase the price of every single one you presently own and put a new floor price. So lets say you had 10 in stock, that’s 1300g you just made, not 16g per dusk you flipped. Call me paranoid, but I’ve been following Dusk prices everyday for months and these spikes are occuring every couple of weeks and aren’t natural. Last time I noticed one about two weeks ago over night every dusk had been increased by 100g. It didn’t stick because of the dragon chest patch.

Rebort.6295:

LFk.1408:

Skolar.4801:

The only plausible explanation for such an increase in that short amount of time is someone bought a good portion of them and relisted for 130g more.

Of course it is.

760g * (0.85) = 646g. 16g per dusk.

Surely the evil market manipulators determined that the best way to tie up 630g * (Dusks) of capital was to use it to slowly make 16g per dusk over a few days.

Plus the 38g to list each one. Everyone knows evil market manipulators can’t add.

The listing price was included in LFk x 0.85 calculation

Wow this sudden spike in precursor cost has me scratching my head. There were 17 sparks for sale and now overnight that’s been reduced to 6. I was expecting the new boss drops to keep prices stable due to lower rare costs, but evidently not. Is demand really up that much due to cheaper ectos?

Remember, when you see sell price on Spidy, it only is listing the lowest sell price available. It almost always means there’s a bunch of sell listings higher than it. When you say people buy 7 precursors, it doesn’t mean they’re buying all 7 at the lowest sell price. They’re probably buying a bunch that’s much higher in price than the lowest sell price also. Hence why it’s silly to do something like this for profit.

I’m just looking at Spark right now. The lowest sell listing is 575G. But if the 4 lowest Sparks are sold out, the next lowest price that will appear is 645G. So another more plausible explanation for the price increase isn’t any “manipulation” but simply sell orders being bought out faster than it can be replaced.

Jabberwock.9014:

Wow this sudden spike in precursor cost has me scratching my head. There were 17 sparks for sale and now overnight that’s been reduced to 6. I was expecting the new boss drops to keep prices stable due to lower rare costs, but evidently not. Is demand really up that much due to cheaper ectos?

Quite a few sell every day. All it takes is for prices to drop to the point where people feel it’s no longer worth mystic forging them to sell for profit anymore, then supply disappears for a bit.

Skolar.4801:

Rebort.6295:

LFk.1408:

Skolar.4801:

The only plausible explanation for such an increase in that short amount of time is someone bought a good portion of them and relisted for 130g more.

Of course it is.

760g * (0.85) = 646g. 16g per dusk.

Surely the evil market manipulators determined that the best way to tie up 630g * (Dusks) of capital was to use it to slowly make 16g per dusk over a few days.

Plus the 38g to list each one. Everyone knows evil market manipulators can’t add.

The listing price was included in LFk x 0.85 calculation

I was adding to the amount of capital each dusk would tie up. 630g to buy it + 38g to relist it.

Anybody that thinks that Legendaries are being manipulated must have very little knowledge on how economics/markets work. Speculators are an essential part of every market.

I like many do not own a precursor and as much as I would love to have one I am not going to resort to dumbing myself down and say the market isn’t being fair. The only thing that wasn’t fair was ANET going back on their own words and making legendaries better than exotics. Another thing that wasn’t fair was the RNG with the Karka event that screwed over thousands of players and reward some people with 2 precursors and some with none. Again this isn’t the market’s fault, this is a design/implementation fault.

What ANET needs to do however is give people who are willing to put the time in a path to creating something truly legendary. They need to create a storyline and break-points within the weapons’s development that makes is usable and upgradeable till it’s a legendary. The weapon has to be 100% obtainable if a person put’s in this incredible amount of effort.

A Legendary should be for a Legendary player, not some idiot warrior that can’t stay up 5 seconds in a dungeon or in WvW.

The people arguing for ‘fixing’ the speculation obviously have no idea how necessary it is to have competitive (i.e. best price) market. If Anet told us that we couldn’t sell our items for what we think it’s worth, I think many people would just not bother selling anything.