Guild Wars 2

Pandemoniac.4739:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Shortened or skipped journey aside….Legendaries should be Account Bound in my opinion. You should not be able to buy them with gold at all. They should be reserved for those players that gathered the Account Bound materials necessary to craft one via the content in the game that provided them.
.

I have mixed feelings about this… I agree with the sentiment and in some ways I think that there should be rewards like the GW1 HOM rewards that you can’t get unless you play the game. I think the high end karma and dungeon gear fills this role.

On the other hand, I don’t know why there shouldn’t be extremely expensive items that reward the TP players and the farmers that can generate that kind of gold. Heck even the folks that spend real money to get gold (legitimately) help the game by supporting development.

In a way, you kind of prove MY point, lol.

You like the idea of the HoM rewards from GW1 being exclusive to those players that played GW1 and accomplished a great many things, including, but not limited to: Acquiring skills, Vanquishing, Cartography, etc.

What if you thought about Legendaries as the HoM reward for GW2? All it really is is a skin anyway….just like the skins in the HoM from GW1. If that’s the case, then they SHOULD be reserved only for the people that completed that journey. Right? :-)

Pandemoniac.4739:

munkiman.3068:

I also mentioned the TP will adjust, but the margin of player earnings versus the set cost to play the game would be higher, increasing overall wealth and bringing a better balance to the TP.

No, it wouldn’t. It would just make things more expensive. If everyone has more money, but the supply and demand remain the same, prices go up.

If every player received 100G for completing their daily, what would happen? No-one in their right mind would sell an item that required a lot more effort than completing a daily for 100G. I know that’s an extreme example, but I don’t think the message would come across in a more realistic example.

The market in GW2 is much more efficient than the market in any other game I’ve played. Things settle out to their real value really quickly for the most part. You can see it in the complaints in the crafting forum that it makes more financial sense to sell the materials than the crafted item.

Making it easier for everyone to make more gold will not get you what you want. The only thing that will bring down precursor prices is to make more supply available, either by increasing the drop rate, or adding a recipe that guarantees a precursor.

Again, and i’m sorry it’s not clear, I’ve made no mention to reducing or increasing the price of TP items on any scale.

There’s a big problem here, people are equating a real life economy with workers and costs of materials which isn’t present in video games, i doesn’t cost the developer more money to repair your items or sell you virtual goods if they increase your earnings. If your base salary goes up, you earn more money, versus what it cost you to play the game, period. Sure the cost of items will go up, but not exponentially. You’ll have more base salary, giving you a higher margin to cost ratio, it’s not rocket surgery.

Let’s take your example 100g for dailies…
Yet the cost to play stays the same, say 50s. This gives you 99g 50s left over after the cost a typical play session focused on making your dailies and logging.

Previously you earned 55s for dailies…
The cost to play is the same 50s. This gives you 5s left to play with.

You see the difference? And no these aren’t realistic numbers, obviously. If you look at the numbers more realistically, you’ll see that the TP prices aren’t going to go up exponentially either, since the cost of the goods hasn’t changed.

munkiman.3068:

Let’s take your example 100g for dailies…
Yet the cost to play stays the same, say 50s. This gives you 99g 50s left over after the cost a typical play session focused on making your dailies and logging.

Previously you earned 55s for dailies…
The cost to play is the same 50s. This gives you 5s left to play with.

You see the difference? And no these aren’t realistic numbers, obviously. If you look at the numbers more realistically, you’ll see that the TP prices aren’t going to go up exponentially either, since the cost of the goods hasn’t changed.

Uh.

By “costs” I’m assuming you mean the flat gold-sinks, like repair bills and WP.

If that happens, all the prices on the TP will explode, because people are in possession of a ton more gold.

@munkiman

I fully understand your examples, but those only address the day to day costs of playing. There are a LOT fewer people that complain about those than complain about the pricing of items on the Trading Post.

How would increasing your earning potential affect that? What would the price of precursors, Legendaries, Charged Lodestones and other high end items look like?

Charismatic Harm.9683:

@munkiman

I fully understand your examples, but those only address the day to day costs of playing. There are a LOT fewer people that complain about those than complain about the pricing of items on the Trading Post.

How would increasing your earning potential affect that? What would the price of precursors, Legendaries, Charged Lodestones and other high end items look like?

People don’t complain because the underlying issue is transparent. If you look at just the cost versus what you have in your account right now, your not going to see immediately that it’s your earnings that’s the problem. No one in game gets a paycheck and obviously people income varies wildly depending on what they do in an average play session. So what do you do, you find ways to earn more money per hour of playtime, but if your base salary goes up and your costs stay the same, that desire to increase your hourly take in is drastically diminished. No longer do you have to work a second job (i.e. cofp1 farming) to earn enough to buy the stuff you want in a more reasonable amount of time.

In going off the base salary of an in-game economy, you can completely ditch the cost increase of goods and services simply since you don’t have to pay npcs more money to create them. So the market that is player driven doesn’t incur the added cost to fabricate these item. If a player is actually earning more per hour as a base, but rarity, cost to manufacture, etc. doesn’t increase or decrease you are left with more items being moved since people can more easily afford them now. If Joe has 100g in his bank and i have 10g the disparity between us isn’t going to increase the cost of goods he or I sell on the TP. Sure the market will go up, but not exponentially, since the entire player base just got an increase in what they earn per hour.

Ursan.7846:

Essence Snow.3194:

To be fair, they enabled the ability to completely bypass or drastically shorten the “journey” via gold. As such we receive contrary messages about what they may or may not want.

This is an interesting discussion that I’ve had a few month ago. I agree with your stance, but I am going play devil’s advocate because I found the justification fascinating.

Why is the journey shortened via gold? You are implying that gold is somehow easy to earn. It’s not. To amass the amount of gold required to buy a Legendary takes a lot of time in-game (grinding, TP trading) or in real-life (actually working and earning money).

In the end, gold gives you options, because you can convert anything (time spend in-game, time spend out of game) into gold. Why are you denying this option to people who don’t have much time to spend in-game, and wish to convert the fruits of their labor in real-life to in-game goodies? Why are you denying this option to people who don’t play the game like you do, and wish to purchase a Legendary solely through their own preferred method of gameplay?

Now my argument is that Legendaries should actually require you to play all aspects of the game. However, being able to purchase them with Gold doesn’t necessarily “shorten” the journey as some would like to claim. It’s just giving the playerbase more options.

I gotcha…let me see if can humor ya.

Ofc we have the obvious direct route…..rl cash>gems>gold>legendary, which completely bypasses the journey. Then we have playing of the tp (intial investment from various sources), which is more of an alternate journey yet still shorter. Finally we have grinding, which sole purpose is to amass something as fast as possible, which leads me into direct farming.

Direct farming of things like t6 mats and lodestones is horribly inefficient. There are counter measures put into place to reduce players ability to do so, thus increasing the duration of that portion of the journey immensely. This creates a massive time gap between methods, one that is obvious enough to steer players towards gold acquisition.

We have various methods of gaining gold in game, but not all are created equal. To be blunt some are not even on the same playing field. Those that provide potential leaps and bounds over all other methods are unbalanced with the rest of the economy. Because they have such elevated levels they have the potential to effect the economy directly and indirectly effect everything that the economy is tied to. Thus they have the potential to unbalance the economy and the game a a whole.

Disclaimer….this was to humor a post…please don’t take this as a stance

You compare buying things from NPC’s to buying things from the Trading Post. Those are two COMPLETELY different animals.

Increasing your earning potential in game will allow you to more easily pay NPC’s for their goods and services…..so long as those prices aren’t increased by ArenaNet as well.

Increasing your earning potential in game will NOT allow you buy goods from the Trading Post.

While your idea may help the casual player get some of the things in the game, like Cultural Armor, it will not put them on a faster path to acquire things like Legendaries and will actually create a larger disparity between NPC offered items and items from the TP.

You actually touch on the point I’ve been trying to make this whole time. High valued items are valued that way for a reason…..players want them. You say you don’t want to have to get a second job (CoF P1) to pay for them……well, you don’t have to now. All you have to do is extend your timeline for the purchase. If you want it NOW….get a second job. If you’re willing to wait for it….play normally.

@Essence Snow

I realize your post was meant to be humorous, but the sentiment of your post rings true throughout the forums.

I was hoping you’d actually mention the Trading Post as one of those methods of gaining gold that is leaps and bounds above other methods…but you didn’t come right out and say it, although I think that’s what you were implying, lol.

Many forum goers need to realize one simple fact: Making money on the Trading Post is NOT EASY!!!! It takes a LOT of work….it’s just a different kind of work. It’s not looking for the most efficient path in a dungeon, or tweaking a build to get your DPS just right, or picking the perfect team of players to get you through it faster. Doing those things require a certain mindset and capabilities that are not available to everyone. It is, however, the ability to acquire data, formulate calculations based on that data, present those calculations in a meaningful way, understand that presentation, and then act in the most appropriate way based on the amount of information you have.

Whether it’s playing a certain type of content in the game, or playing the Trading Post, both require more work than many people realize….and the reason players don’t realize how much work it takes to figure it out is because many of them just use what other people provide for them. They’ve rarely ever tried to figure it out for themselves.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

@Essence Snow

I realize your post was meant to be humorous, but the sentiment of your post rings true throughout the forums.

I was hoping you’d actually mention the Trading Post as one of those methods of gaining gold that is leaps and bounds above other methods…but you didn’t come right out and say it, although I think that’s what you were implying, lol.

Many forum goers need to realize one simple fact: Making money on the Trading Post is NOT EASY!!!! It takes a LOT of work….it’s just a different kind of work. It’s not looking for the most efficient path in a dungeon, or tweaking a build to get your DPS just right, or picking the perfect team of players to get you through it faster. Doing those things require a certain mindset and capabilities that are not available to everyone. It is, however, the ability to acquire data, formulate calculations based on that data, present those calculations in a meaningful way, understand that presentation, and then act in the most appropriate way based on the amount of information you have.

Whether it’s playing a certain type of content in the game, or playing the Trading Post, both require more work than many people realize….and the reason players don’t realize how much work it takes to figure it out is because many of them just use what other people provide for them. They’ve rarely ever tried to figure it out for themselves.

Utilizing “tools” (spidy, spreadsheets, zicore’s notifier, etc) is other whole issue upon itself. One could argue they ease the amount of work that playing the tp requires, much like how macros, textmod, even bots ease playing the game. But….big one….but tbh I don’t really want to get into all that atm.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

You compare buying things from NPC’s to buying things from the Trading Post. Those are two COMPLETELY different animals.

Increasing your earning potential in game will allow you to more easily pay NPC’s for their goods and services…..so long as those prices aren’t increased by ArenaNet as well.

Increasing your earning potential in game will NOT allow you buy goods from the Trading Post.

While your idea may help the casual player get some of the things in the game, like Cultural Armor, it will not put them on a faster path to acquire things like Legendaries and will actually create a larger disparity between NPC offered items and items from the TP.

You actually touch on the point I’ve been trying to make this whole time. High valued items are valued that way for a reason…..players want them. You say you don’t want to have to get a second job (CoF P1) to pay for them……well, you don’t have to now. All you have to do is extend your timeline for the purchase. If you want it NOW….get a second job. If you’re willing to wait for it….play normally.

You’re starting to sounds like the “who doesn’t want 50% more cash back baby” on the credit card commercial. But seriously, i don’t want to play a job after my real job and if my progress toward my goals are infinitesimal, i won’t be here in the 2 years it takes me to earn a legendary that will be most likely outdated. It’s very un-creative to artificially create this ridiculously long journey based on the fact that the major of your player base is simply to poor to afford it in shorter terms. If i’m feeling rewarded for my efforts (i’m progressing toward my goals), i’m more inclined to stick around.

Most of my working and even non-working guildies that are around my age simply don’t want that non-sense and we are actually the people buying gems to support the game. You can say what you will about the time it takes to earn a virtual item that sparkles, but people that actually value their time and money simply will not be around to support the game in the 2 years it takes to get to complete their goal.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

In a way, you kind of prove MY point, lol.
(snip)

What if you thought about Legendaries as the HoM reward for GW2? All it really is is a skin anyway….

Well if it seems like I agree with you it’s because I do… mostly

Why do legendaries have to be the account bound reward when there are other items that already fulfill that role? What if we flip it around and ask if you got a lucky drop of a precursor for a legendary you didn’t want, why shouldn’t you be able to turn your game playing effort into a huge pile of gold?

When I get home from work and off my phone, I think I’m going to price out the legendary recipes to see how much value the account bound components add just out of curiousity (assuming the precursor is free)

Pandemoniac.4739:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

In a way, you kind of prove MY point, lol.
(snip)

What if you thought about Legendaries as the HoM reward for GW2? All it really is is a skin anyway….

Well if it seems like I agree with you it’s because I do… mostly

Why do legendaries have to be the account bound reward when there are other items that already fulfill that role? What if we flip it around and ask if you got a lucky drop of a precursor for a legendary you didn’t want, why shouldn’t you be able to turn your game playing effort into a huge pile of gold?

When I get home from work and off my phone, I think I’m going to price out the legendary recipes to see how much value the account bound components add just out of curiousity (assuming the precursor is free)

You may have misunderstood my point. I didn’t say that precursors should be Account Bound….I said that Legendaries should be.

Precursors differ in one simple way…..they are a world drop. Legendaries are crafted by a specific Mystic Forge recipe that is guaranteed to give you one if you put in the correct amount of the correct pieces.

The Mystic Forge recipe for a precursor is a “random chance” recipe, not a guaranteed one and similar to how world drops work.

Perhaps it would be best to clarify my stance on why Legendaries should be Account Bound. What I really mean is…..anything that requires Account Bound materials to craft should also be Account Bound. I would even include foods created by the Chef discipline that require Account Bound ingredients.

@munkiman

Players only consider it a job because they want some of the most expensive items in the game without putting in the work required to get them. Those items are out of reach for those players for a reason….and that reason is because the amount of effort to get them is greater than what they’re willing to put in.

Look at “effort” however you’d like and associate it with whichever part of the game you want to…..but it’s going to take one of the following to get….

• A lot of dungeon runs to amass the gold you need to buy from the Trading Post
• A knowledge of the Trading Post and the ability to find profitable items so that you can amass the gold you need to buy it from the Trading Post
• A great deal of time playing the game and killing mobs to increase your chances of getting the item you’re wanting
• Pure, unadulterated luck
• or a combination of the items listed above (or some that aren’t listed)

Any way you look at it……it’s the players expectations that are out of whack…..not the systems in place currently. While they could probably be adjusted slightly, they aren’t SO broken that they need a complete overhaul.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

@munkiman
snip…

Any way you look at it……it’s the players expectations that are out of whack…..not the systems in place currently. While they could probably be adjusted slightly, they aren’t SO broken that they need a complete overhaul.

And what happens when the majority of your players expectations are out of whack? You know the ones that supplement the income of the game by buying gems?

Blame the players all you want instead of the design, i’m sure that’ll get you to the 2 year mark you set up initially for the average player base you lost a year ago.

Hopefully you don’t represent anets outlook. That’s all i got.

munkiman.3068:

And what happens when the majority of your players expectations are out of whack?

I’m not sure why you insist on implying your opinion applies to the “majority” of the playerbase.

munkiman.3068:

Hopefully you don’t represent anets outlook. That’s all i got.

Actually….I do hope that I represent ArenaNet’s outlook on Guild Wars 2. That would mean that they’ve made a game that is easy to get into for casual players and doesn’t require a grind to get max stat gear, provides content for above average and hardcore gamers that offer them a challenge, and pretty shinies that if you save your pennies, you can strive to achieve in a reasonable amount of time. Oh wait…..that’s what Guild Wars 2 is….isn’t it?

The sad part is….they’ll cave to the entitled and start handing things out like candy….essentially ruining the game by making everything too easy to get.

I really hope they don’t cave though. Only time will tell.

Ursan.7846:

munkiman.3068:

And what happens when the majority of your players expectations are out of whack?

I’m not sure why you insist on implying your opinion applies to the “majority” of the playerbase.

I’m not trying to insist on anything really, i still enjoy playing the game and as i mentioned before, i personally don’t have an issue with the OP. I think at this point it’s just an argument for the sake of wanting to be right. I’m only really concerned with the future of the game,

I run a website of about 400 or so members, 90 of which played the game and from that 3 still log in on occasion. Of that 90 the majority of those had long term experience with MMO’s and rpgs of all sorts of flavors. The biggest complaint, it just doesn’t feel very rewarding to play. Another reason i can logically assume this is that anet themselves said (and i paraphrase) “we need to make the game more rewarding for players”. So they patch up rewards from certain chests, which isn’t even the heart of the problem. Ergo, why i’m saying it.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Pandemoniac.4739:

Why do legendaries have to be the account bound reward when there are other items that already fulfill that role? What if we flip it around and ask if you got a lucky drop of a precursor for a legendary you didn’t want, why shouldn’t you be able to turn your game playing effort into a huge pile of gold?

When I get home from work and off my phone, I think I’m going to price out the legendary recipes to see how much value the account bound components add just out of curiousity (assuming the precursor is free)

You may have misunderstood my point. I didn’t say that precursors should be Account Bound….I said that Legendaries should be.

Nope I got that – I was posting from my phone, so I probably didn’t communicate that well.

My back of the napkin calculations indicate that if you got a lucky drop of the precursor The Colossus, you could take your skill points/laurels/dungeon tokens/karma and turn it into 760G by crafting the legendary the Juggernaut. Edit – Actually I forgot to take out the 15% of the sale for the precursor, materials and legendary, so only about 646G instead of the 760G

If you sold the lucky drop, it would be worth about 700G. If you sold all of the materials that can be sold instead of using them to make the legendary, it would be about 840G. If you made the legendary, it’s going for about 2300G right now. It’s just a ballpark estimate – markets change and I don’t have the data to make a super accurate guess.

I don’t play any character that uses a hammer. Why shouldn’t I be able to craft The Juggernaut and sell it (and get the money to buy the one I actually want and have some left over)? There are plenty of other items in the game that can only be purchased with currency you can only earn through playing the game. As you said before, the legendaries are just skins. Really rare skins, but still just skins.

I don’t know why the folks who like making gold in the game, but don’t really enjoy crafting or world completion or whatever shouldn’t have something to strive for… Legendaries are the only items in the game that have enough cost associated with them to make them extravagantly expensive. If they weren’t crafted with account bound materials, they wouldn’t be priced much higher than the precursors.

The folks that play all the different aspects of the PVE game have leader boards now, and the WvWers have ranks and abilities. There’s unique looking karma/dungeon armor. The folks that can come up with 2300G are either playing the game a lot or supporting the game with their real world dollars. Why take away the one goal they can strive for playing the game the way they like to play it?

There’s not a lot of satisfaction in accumulating a bunch of gold if there’s nothing fancy to spend it on. Look at the number of commanders running around – 100G is not really a stretch goal for a certain group of folks.

Do you know what’s so wrong with the “just play longer” argument?

If I would to get a legendary a few month ago, it probably takes me 100 hours of farming. It takes around 300 hours of farming now.

Why is that people can’t afford to get them a few month ago actually need to work much harder for it. Since I can’t afford to get it “before”, I actually need to spend a few times longer to get it now.

I remember when I started playing, that is back in November, it take me a few weeks to reach level80. During that time the gem price doubled. So I started farming like crazy everyday just so I won’t need to “farm more later”. And I did the right thing, the gem price quadrupled.

I don’t know why you, the OP act like Anet don’t have anything to do with precursor price. The price is set by “supply” and “demand”. I think you forget Anet set the supply of precursor. If they would to make the precursor drop more, or have a higher mystic forge rate. The price will be lowered. As proven by the precursor event a few month ago, the price plummet because people can get it from an event.

The reality is the max price of precursor is really set by the mystic forge rate. That is why all the more popular precursor are roughly at the same price. If Anet would to increase that rate, the price would be lowered already.

I never get why people keep defending “cash shop mmorpg” with the “supply and demand” theory. The reality is the system is set up to maximize profit for the company. And those game studio probably did extended A/B split test just so they can maxmize profit.

I dont’ blame Anet for anything they do. The reality is game studio have to make money. If not to fed the developer. They have pressure from the investor to make money.

Your argument is flawed in the simple sense that it’s not “supply of Legendary precursors” that’s the problem…..it’s the “supply of POPULAR Legendary precursors”. What that means is that Legendaries……ALL Legendaries…..are meant to be rare. If all you want is a Legendary, there are several precursors that are FAR less expensive than their more popular counterparts. Make one of those.

Yes, ArenaNet controls the supply of precursors, but the players control the demand for them….and the prices OF them.

If what you want is a Legendary, it won’t take you very much longer at all than it did in the beginning to craft one yourself. If you want a VERY POPULAR Legendary….it will take you a great deal longer to craft it because the DEMAND for that Legendary and it’s precursor has gone up…..as has the price.

To blame ArenaNet for the pricing of an item is to point the finger in the wrong direction. Those items are meant to be rare and ArenaNet has made the drop rate and Mystic Forge recipes accordingly to keep them that way. However, ArenaNet does NOT control demand for an item or the price of it….the players do.

You’re also correct in your statement that the precursor price is set by the Mystic Forge rate. How many rare Tridents do you see being thrown in the MF? What are the prices of those rares on the TP? If they’re equal to the price of rare Greatswords, why do you think that is? Is it because people are buying to throw them in the Mystic Forge….or are they buying them to salvage for Ectoplasms? My guess is ecto….not MF.

Btw…..this is also not a “cash shop mmorpg”. Nothing in the cash shop makes you a better player, nor is any of it necessary to play the game. They are all convenience items. If you’re making the argument that you can buy gems with real money, convert those gems to gold, then buy a Legendary off the Trading Post, while that is true….you can…..have you done the math? How many people do you think will actually do that?

Your entire argument seems based on the fact that you want a precursor / Legendary, you want it right now, you can’t afford it, and you’re not willing to put the work required into getting one. That’s called entitlement.

My guess is that you and all of the other entitled players that continue to cry because you don’t have your pretty shiny will eventually make ArenaNet cave and start handing out precursors like candy. When that happens….how quickly will you start complaining that Legendaries are now too easy to get, everyone has one, and they’re far too expensive for how commonplace they are?

laokoko.7403:

I never get why people keep defending “cash shop mmorpg” with the “supply and demand” theory.

Uh.

Because it is supply and demand?

See: Venom.

If there are people willing to purchase a legendary outright for money though, who are we to condemn them? Anet is happy because they got money, the purchaser is happy because they are able to convert their time spend in the real life into an in-game item they really want. And on top of it, none of this affects us. If the purchaser is unskilled, he will still be a jobber and you will still easily squish him in WvW.

Ursan.7846:

Because it is supply and demand?

See: Venom.

You’re stealing Vol’s argument…..he’s going to be MAAAAAADDDDD!!!! :-)

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Your entire argument seems based on the fact that you want a precursor / Legendary, you want it right now, you can’t afford it, and you’re not willing to put the work required into getting one. That’s called entitlement.

My guess is that you and all of the other entitled players that continue to cry because you don’t have your pretty shiny will eventually make ArenaNet cave and start handing out precursors like candy. When that happens….how quickly will you start complaining that Legendaries are now too easy to get, everyone has one, and they’re far too expensive for how commonplace they are?

You’re ruthless about this entitlement deal. Precursor isn’t a legendary, it’s one of many ingredients it takes to make it. The simple fact it’s based on RNG, is an artificial way to make it take longer and cost more. Regardless i know 2 people working on their second or 3rd, of which play the game close to 10 hours a day and farm, get lucky, then farm more. So those people are more entitled? Because they got lucky? Your view on entitlement is skewed.

You’re mistaken in your view that RNG is making it take longer and cost more. RNG, in this case, is intended to keep an item rare by a very low drop rate or chance of creating one via the Mystic Forge.

Your friends who farm 10 hours a day aren’t necessarily “getting lucky”….they’re increasing the probability that RNG will be in their favor with each enemy they kill that has the possibility to drop a precursor. They aren’t the entitled ones. They’re the ones working toward their goals. The entitled ones are the ones that think they too should have an item because other people do.

Entitlement is defined by Merriam-Webster as (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement):
Definition of ENTITLEMENT
1
a : the state or condition of being entitled : right
b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2
: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3
: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

In the case of video games and this discussion, the definitions stated in 1b and 3 are most applicable. So many complaints about precursors and Legendaries are rooted in a players “wants” or what they think they deserve because they purchased the game….not what they actually deserve.

munkiman.3068:

Precursor isn’t a legendary, it’s one of many ingredients it takes to make it. The simple fact it’s based on RNG, is an artificial way to make it take longer and cost more.

Of course it’s artificial. RNG is how every game with a player economy simulates the cost of creating something. In the real world, bad guys don’t walk around with their pockets full of items and money that you can beat out of them. Value doesn’t appear out of thin air like it does in a game.

Drop tables simulate that a rare sword would be very expensive to make in the real world – it would require rare materials, an exceptionally skilled blacksmith, etc. Precursors are rare because they are intended to be rare. Legendaries are hard to get because they are intended to be hard to get.

Ursan.7846:

laokoko.7403:

I never get why people keep defending “cash shop mmorpg” with the “supply and demand” theory.

Uh.

Because it is supply and demand?

See: Venom.

If there are people willing to purchase a legendary outright for money though, who are we to condemn them? Anet is happy because they got money, the purchaser is happy because they are able to convert their time spend in the real life into an in-game item they really want. And on top of it, none of this affects us. If the purchaser is unskilled, he will still be a jobber and you will still easily squish him in WvW.

It is supply and demand. I’m just saying OP forget why precursor price is so expensive “beside” the demand is high.

It is because the “supply” is also low. Which is “completely” controled by Anet. So when OP act like Anet have “nothing” to do with the precursor price. I think that is completely wrong.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

You’re mistaken in your view that RNG is making it take longer and cost more. RNG, in this case, is intended to keep an item rare by a very low drop rate or chance of creating one via the Mystic Forge.

Your friends who farm 10 hours a day aren’t necessarily “getting lucky”….they’re increasing the probability that RNG will be in their favor with each enemy they kill that has the possibility to drop a precursor. They aren’t the entitled ones. They’re the ones working toward their goals. The entitled ones are the ones that think they too should have an item because other people do.

Entitlement is defined by Merriam-Webster as (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/entitlement):
Definition of ENTITLEMENT
1
a : the state or condition of being entitled : right
b : a right to benefits specified especially by law or contract
2
: a government program providing benefits to members of a specified group; also : funds supporting or distributed by such a program
3
: belief that one is deserving of or entitled to certain privileges

In the case of video games and this discussion, the definitions stated in 1b and 3 are most applicable. So many complaints about precursors and Legendaries are rooted in a players “wants” or what they think they deserve because they purchased the game….not what they actually deserve.

Thanks for you’re opinion on who’s acting entitled. Back to the original point, precursors aren’t legendaries and in my view and MANY others (i won’t use majority anymore) think the method of acquisition is horrible. Anet already knows it and have yet to divulge a solution, so apparently they agree to some extent. For example both those people i mentioned actually got their first from the karka chest and the second one he bought off the auction house the day after the event as the prices plummeted.

No one i know is saying they deserve it more, maybe you perceive it as lazy people acting entitled, which is why i said your view of entitlement is skewed, not the actual definition (thanks again for that btw). A fair method of acquisition in my opinion would be an arduous quest that spawned a chest at the end of it that had, oh lets say a 10% chance to grant you a pre. At least then it would be fun and more equal for everyone. Maybe mix it up a bit depending on which pre you were going for.

laokoko.7403:

It is supply and demand. I’m just saying OP forget why precursor price is so expensive “beside” the demand is high.

It is because the “supply” is also low. Which is “completely” controled by Anet. So when OP act like Anet have “nothing” to do with the precursor price. I think that is completely wrong.

Do you also feel that the price of Venom is also too high? The supply of that is completely controlled by ArenaNet as well and is most likely equal to the supply of all other precursors, including ones like Dusk, Dawn or The Hunter. Do you feel if the supply listed on the Trading Post for The Hunter, using the data in my original post, was also 41 like the Venom that the price of The Hunter would also be 33g like it is for Venom?

If supply (drop rates) for precursors remain constant and equal for all precursors, as demand for an item rises, so does its price. That is simple economics. The price of a precursor is set by supply AND demand. Assuming the supply (drop rate) of all precursors is exactly the same (as I stated in my OP), then we can deduce that the reason for the price differential can be equated to the demand (how many players want that precursor) for that item. Again….as the demand rises, so does the price.

It’s not that ArenaNet has “nothing” to do with the price of precursors because they do control the supply….so sure….I’ll agree with you there. You need to look at the entire picture though. The difference in price of various precursors is due to demand…..not supply. Venom is “cheap” in comparison because very few people want it. That doesn’t make Venom any less of a precursor used in the crafting of a Legendary though. It just makes it less in demand…..hence the price for it is lower.

Actually, I think more of the wanted precursors move more as the supply could be higher due to, just suggesting here, people attempt to forge the higher demanded items to make more money based on the same forge rate as the lower demanded ones…. Which you would think would actually bring the costs down :shruggs:

munkiman.3068:

Actually, I think more of the wanted precursors move more as the supply could be higher due to, just suggesting here, people attempt to forge the higher demanded items to make more money based on the same forge rate as the lower demanded ones…. Which you would think would actually bring the costs down :shruggs:

You make a valid point, but you would also need to take into consideration the cost of creation as well. I haven’t checked, but I would guess that the price of rare greatswords is much higher than the price of rare tridents since there are two highly demanded greatsword precursors.

Edit:

You’d also need to look into crafting materials due to the fact that it may be less expensive to craft those greatswords instead of buying them to throw into the MF.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

You make a valid point, but you would also need to take into consideration the cost of creation as well. I haven’t checked, but I would guess that the price of rare greatswords is much higher than the price of rare tridents since there are two highly demanded greatsword precursors.

Edit:

You’d also need to look into crafting materials due to the fact that it may be less expensive to craft those greatswords instead of buying them to throw into the MF.

Being an avid mystic forger and using it actually make money, and a person that watches the TP, and has all his crafting professions, I can tell you that with very few exceptions it’s always cheaper to craft rares/exotics than it is to buy them, simple due to the listing fee. In the cases where it’s cheaper to buy the item i ALWAYS buy out as much stock as possible and flip them past the fee (or toss them in the forge if it’s a short bow) since i know it’s going to settle there eventually. This often happens when mats get scarce.

Edit: BTW, i’m only going for the lover for my wife, i’m not even in the running when it comes to getting a legendary any time soon.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

laokoko.7403:

It is supply and demand. I’m just saying OP forget why precursor price is so expensive “beside” the demand is high.

It is because the “supply” is also low. Which is “completely” controled by Anet. So when OP act like Anet have “nothing” to do with the precursor price. I think that is completely wrong.

Do you also feel that the price of Venom is also too high? The supply of that is completely controlled by ArenaNet as well and is most likely equal to the supply of all other precursors, including ones like Dusk, Dawn or The Hunter. Do you feel if the supply listed on the Trading Post for The Hunter, using the data in my original post, was also 41 like the Venom that the price of The Hunter would also be 33g like it is for Venom?

If supply (drop rates) for precursors remain constant and equal for all precursors, as demand for an item rises, so does its price. That is simple economics. The price of a precursor is set by supply AND demand. Assuming the supply (drop rate) of all precursors is exactly the same (as I stated in my OP), then we can deduce that the reason for the price differential can be equated to the demand (how many players want that precursor) for that item. Again….as the demand rises, so does the price.

It’s not that ArenaNet has “nothing” to do with the price of precursors because they do control the supply….so sure….I’ll agree with you there. You need to look at the entire picture though. The difference in price of various precursors is due to demand…..not supply. Venom is “cheap” in comparison because very few people want it. That doesn’t make Venom any less of a precursor used in the crafting of a Legendary though. It just makes it less in demand…..hence the price for it is lower.

Let me quote what you said in your first post “My findings are, whether you like it or not, that prices are being dictated by the player base.”

That is wrong right? The “difference” of precursor price is set by the players. But the price of precursor is really set by Anet.

Infact the price of the popular precursor is most likely set by the mystic forge. You may be right about those “less popular” precursor price. But without the mystic forge, the price of spark, dawn, dusk, might be in the thousdand.

So it is supply and demand. “But” Anet is really the one controling the supply.

Look at it another way, almost no one will bother to spend 600 gold in material for a trident legendary, “yet” Venom cost 30+ gold. Because the supply is low right?

And you are not even discussing about supply “and” demand. You are really discussing a market in which there is a “fix” on supply and how the variation of demand will adjust the item price.

laokoko.7403:

The “difference” of precursor price is set by the players. But the price of precursor is really set by Anet.

Uh.

No, the price of precursors are set by Anet (supply) and players (demand.)

You’re trying to make a distinction between the impact on prices by the players (demand) and the impact on prices by Anet (supply.) I’m not sure why you’re trying to make that distinction.

Both affect prices. Supply AND demand.

laokoko.7403:

Let me quote what you said in your first post “My findings are, whether you like it or not, that prices are being dictated by the player base.”

That is wrong right? The “difference” of precursor price is set by the players. But the price of precursor is really set by Anet.

Infact the price of the popular precursor is most likely set by the mystic forge. You may be right about those “less popular” precursor price. But without the mystic forge, the price of spark, dawn, dusk, might be in the thousdand.

So it is supply and demand. “But” Anet is really the one controling the supply.

Look at it another way, almost no one will bother to spend 600 gold in material for a trident legendary, “yet” Venom cost 30+ gold. Because the supply is low right?

And you are not even discussing about supply “and” demand. You are really discussing a market in which there is a “fix” on supply and how the variation of demand will adjust the item price.

Perhaps I should clarify my initial findings….

My findings are, whether you like it or not, that prices on the Trading Post are being dictated by the player base.

There….that’s better.

You are correct in stating that ArenaNet sets the price of precursor though. They did give it a value if you want to sell it to a vendor. That’s not really the price we’re talking about though…is it?

The price we’re talking about is the price of a precursor on the Trading Post. ArenaNet’s initial price of a precursor on the Trading Post would have been 1 copper above the vendor value, and that’s the ONLY time they will set the price of an item on the Trading Post. They will only set the low end price of an item at 1 copper above the vendor value. It seems that the price is WAY above that right now…even for the precursors fewer players want.

How is it that the price of the precursors have gone up so much? It couldn’t be because of the demand (how many players want the item)…..could it?

So….while the supply (set by ArenaNet through drop rate chance and Mystic Forge recipe) and demand (how many players want the item) are both contributing factors of the price of a precursor on the Trading Post…..which do you think has more impact on why the price is high?

I have a feeling you’re going to say supply because the supply is so low. While that is PART of the “issue”…..it’s not nearly the entire picture. If supply was the only contributing factor to the price of a precursor on the Trading Post, then Venom and Dusk would have nearly identical prices…..but they don’t.

It seems that the supply of Venom vs. the demand for it are pretty well in line. If the supply of Venom is meant to represent the supply of all precursors, then the demand for the others must be what’s driving the price up…..but I don’t know. Maybe you should shed some light on exactly what’s going on because I can’t follow your logic at all.

Edit: TL;DR – ArenaNet sets the rarity of an item. The players determine the price of that item based on it’s rarity and how much they are willing to pay for the item.

Anet = Supply / rarity / vendor value
Players = Demand / value / price on the Trading Post

Ursan.7846:

laokoko.7403:

The “difference” of precursor price is set by the players. But the price of precursor is really set by Anet.

Uh.

No, the price of precursors are set by Anet (supply) and players (demand.)

You’re trying to make a distinction between the impact on prices by the players (demand) and the impact on prices by Anet (supply.) I’m not sure why you’re trying to make that distinction.

Both affect prices. Supply AND demand.

Before we get back to the supply and demand argument… Think for a second. Anet can infact change the precursor price to anything they want. So what’s wrong with me saying Anet is the one setting the precursor price.

Getting back to the supply and demand argument. I am emphasizing the supply side, which is controled by Anet, since that is what the OP is neglecting.

Just like the OP presuming the supply is fix. I’m presuming the demand is fixed, since I can’t change the average people’s perception of weather they “want” to get a legendary or not.

I can’t log on the server and tell all the people that want a precursor to not get one. But I can come on forum and beg Anet to increase the drop rate, give better mystic forge rate, or release the salvage hunt already. Since that “is” something that can be changed.

Even the demand side is an artificial demand imposed by Anet to the player, because the skins look great, it is purple, it creat a superior feeling when you are wearing one and other people arn’t.

The only thing I want to say is Anet “can” set the price of precursor to anything they want. That is the only thing I want to say, and that is the only thing I disagree with the OP. Which get back to what’s wrong with me saying “Anet is infact the one setting the precursor price”. They can change it to anything they want.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Maybe you should shed some light on exactly what’s going on because I can’t follow your logic at all.

What I’m trying to say is very simple. Anet can change the price of precursor to anything they want. But they choose to not do it.

So when people come up and say or imply Anet have nothing to do with the precursor price. That dont’ make sense. Because the reality is they can change it to anything they want. They already did before during the Karka event. They can already change it by adjusting the mystic forge rate which they didn’t do it.

I played a bunch of f2p games, and this supply and demand thing always comes up. The point isn’t about the supply and demand. The point is the whole system is created by the game studio.

I’m not agreeing or disagreeing dawn should cost 600 gold. I’m saying dawn is 600 gold because Anet make it so. You might say… well the player want it that’s why it is so expensive. No that’s wrong. It is expensive because Anet make a skin which “they think people will want” and keep it incredible hard to get that’s why it is 600 gold.

laokoko.7403:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

Maybe you should shed some light on exactly what’s going on because I can’t follow your logic at all.

What I’m trying to say is very simple. Anet can change the price of precursor to anything they want. But they choose to not do it.

Actually that’s not entirely correct (and I’m not disagreeing with your underlying argument – just clarifying). ANet can change the cost of items, they don’t have any direct control over the price.

What if all the sudden ANet decided to make Cup of Potato Fries really rare and sweep the over supply off of the market. It’s not a desirable food, so the price probably wouldn’t change all that much.

If that is truly the case, then Venom would be as expensive as Dusk, but it’s not. Dusk is much more expensive than Venom because more players want Dusk than want Venom.

ArenaNet controls the supply of precursors through an algorithm that determines the chance that a player will get a precursor through a world drop, or from a recipe via the Mystic Forge.

Let’s make one assumption regarding world drops just to simplify things. Each time a player kills an enemy capable of dropping a precursor, they are given a chance to get one through the algorithm controlling the loot table. Let’s say that player “gets a lucky roll” and a precursor is going to drop for them. At that point, let’s assume that the player is going to get a precursor and has an equal chance to get any of the precursors available.

The second way to get one is through a Mystic Forge recipe. The Mystic Forge recipe is 4 Rare or Exotic weapons lvl 76 or higher. They don’t have to be the same kind of weapons either. However, the player can improve their odds by throwing lvl 76 Rares of the same type in….in the example of Dusk / Dawn, that would be Greatswords….for Venom, it would be Tridents. Now….the player can increase their odds even further by throwing in 4 lvl 80 Exotics of the same type. The chances to receive a precursor via the Mystic Forge are the same, no matter which one you’re going for. You’re not more likely to get a Venom by throwing in 4 lvl 80 Exotic Tridents than you are to receive a Dusk or Dawn by throwing in 4 lvl 80 Exotic Greatswords. In actuality, throwing greatswords into the Forge gives you double the chance of getting something valuable since there are 2 possible outcomes, even if one of them isn’t the one you want.

Take a look at the prices of rare and exotic greatswords vs. the prices of rare and exotic tridents on the Trading Post. The greatswords are significantly higher….most likely because more players are buying them to throw into the Forge for a chance at Dusk / Dawn.

Even with the extra supply that the player base is attempting to generate via the Mystic Forge, that shows us that the demand for the item far outstrips the supply. Players can’t make Dusk / Dawn fast enough to lower the price significantly. Even if ArenaNet was to double, triple, or quadruple the supply of precursors….would it be enough to satisfy the demand? Probably not….and we can see that from the Karka Event. Precursors were dropping like candy during that event and the prices fell for a short time, but once the players went through the supply, the prices began to rise again. If ArenaNet introduced that kind of supply on a full time basis…..yes….prices would drop….but not because they are controlling the price. The only thing they control is the supply….the rarity of the item. The price is still controlled by the player base. The price will fall with an increase in supply as long as demand allows for it to, but that’s how supply and demand works.

As supply increases, prices will fall as long as there is not sufficient demand for the item. Prices may still rise if the demand far outweighs the supply though. This is the case for the popular precursors (Dusk, Dawn, Hunter).

As demand decreases, prices will fall as long as there is sufficient supply for the item. This is the case for less popular precursors (Venom).

In order for the price of an item to reach equilibrium, the amount of supply vs. the amount of demand for the item will be virtually equal. Take a look at the chart I posted in my OP. Look at the expensive items. The prices of those are REALLY high…..because the “demand” for them far outstrips the “supply”. Now….look at the inexpensive items. The prices of those are low in comparison, but look at their volume ratios…..it’s nearly 1….meaning that the “supply” and “demand” for those items are nearing equilibrium.

If ArenaNet increased supply of precursors, it may bring the prices down, but only if the demand for precursors doesn’t continue to far outweigh the supply.

ArenaNet does NOT control the price of precursors….the players do. Plain and simple.

Dude. No one give a rat that Venom cost 30 gold.

Just like No one cares putrid essense cost 60 copper.

How does the price of something no one want justify the price of something people wants being too expensive.

Maybe Anet should double the drop rate of precursor and triple the rate of mystic forge and make venom 10 gold and dusk 200 gold.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

ArenaNet controls the supply of precursors through an algorithm that determines the chance that a player will get a precursor through a world drop, or from a recipe via the Mystic Forge.

That is what you wrote yourself and now you say Anet don’t control the precursor price?

Anet is already controling the precursor price when they set up the algorithm for it for world drop and mystic forge recipe.

And maybe your right. They might have never change it, and maybe they “should” change it.

I get it. There is no demand for Venom that why it is cheap. And there is high demand for dusk, that is why that is expensive.

But why do you keep neglecting the reality if Anet increase the drop rate, or mystic forge rate, or add in more event which drop precursor it’ll be cheaper.

laokoko.7403:

How does the price of something no one want justify the price of something people wants being too expensive.

Simply because they’re both precursors for Legendary weapons.

laokoko.7403:

Maybe Anet should double the drop rate of precursor and triple the rate of mystic forge and make venom 10 gold and dusk 200 gold.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

ArenaNet controls the supply of precursors through an algorithm that determines the chance that a player will get a precursor through a world drop, or from a recipe via the Mystic Forge.

That is what you wrote yourself and now you say Anet don’t control the precursor price?

That’s right. They control the supply….NOT the price. The price, in this case, is STILL determined by overabundance of DEMAND!!!

laokoko.7403:

I get it. There is no demand for Venom that why it is cheap. And there is high demand for dusk, that is why that is expensive.

If you get it, then why do you still keep saying that the price is controlled by ArenaNet?

laokoko.7403:

But why do you keep neglecting the reality if Anet increase the drop rate, or mystic forge rate, or add in more event which drop precursor it’ll be cheaper.

I’m not neglecting that possibility….but it would also require the supply to be great enough to outweigh the current demand for the item. Doubling, tripling, or even, quadrupling the supply at this point would probably barely touch whether the price comes down…..again….based on the demand for the item. I guarantee you if they were to increase the supply of precursors, the price of Venom would fall because the demand for it just isn’t there to support the price it’s at now. As for Dusk / Dawn….there may be a reduction, but it would most likely be negligible.

Precursors….ALL precursors….are meant to be rare. Rarity usually comes with a price. I’m sure the intent of the low world and Mystic Forge drop rate was to keep precursors rare. I doubt ArenaNet could have predicted the disparity between Venom and Dusk…..but the fact is, the demand for Dusk is much higher than the demand for Venom, therefore, the price players are willing to pay for it is higher. If players didn’t want the item as badly as they do, the price wouldn’t be as high as it is.

Please take the time and read this article: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

In particular, the section on “Excess Demand”. Maybe then you’ll truly understand what’s going on with these highly popular precursors.

If you get it, then why do you still keep saying that the price is controlled by ArenaNet?

Whoever controls the spice controls the Universe.

laokoko.7403:

How does the price of something no one want justify the price of something people wants being too expensive.

Maybe Anet should double the drop rate of precursor and triple the rate of mystic forge and make venom 10 gold and dusk 200 gold.

So, I think the discussion is at an impasse. Some folks think having something that is so rare that it is unobtainable by most players is a bad thing and some folks don’t. I think we all agree now why certain precursors are expensive, but I doubt the two sides will ever see eye to eye on whether that’s how it should be.

ANet could try to bring the price down by making certain precursors easier to get, but whether it would be a good thing for the game is a matter of opinion. (Edit – because we don’t have the information to do anything more than speculate on what the impact would be)

It’s interesting that making a component to craft a legendary really rare upsets more folks than if the legendary itself was a really really rare drop. I don’t remember this kind of outcry in other games about items with very low drop rates. Maybe it’s because you have to get lucky AND put a lot of effort in to make a legendary that makes it seem unfair to some folks.

Just FYI, proceeding the karka event, the price of dusk plummeted 200g the next day. Proving that increasing the drop rate will make the prices for pres go down significantly.

I don’t however support the argument that anet sets any of the TP prices. There are plenty of rare items on the TP that simply sell for next to nothing, but that’s due to the fact that no one wants them. Much of the prices we see are pretty close to being in line with what it cost to fabricate the item +15%. Then there is demand which will take those higher wanted items and push them past that base number. Right now all precursors are pretty much created equally in drop chance.

munkiman.3068:

Just FYI, proceeding the karka event, the price of dusk plummeted 200g the next day. Proving that increasing the drop rate will make the prices for pres go down significantly.

The reason for this was because the entire supply was created at exactly the same time. So, what we saw was the market being flooded with precursors and everyone trying to sell theirs, and to do that, they were undercutting each other.

When looking at the price of Dusk around the time of the Lost Shores event, we can see the price at its highest (~410g) a few days before the event ended. During the final days of the event, prices began to plummet due to speculation of the final event chest rewarding precursors. On the 18th of November, when the event ended, prices fell continuously until the 21st when they bottomed out….falling to around 240g. It was only a temporary drop in price though as VERY soon after that, price began climbing again. They climbed steadily since then to the point we see them at now.

The factors involved during and after that event are more than just supply and demand. There was speculation and panic as well. The supply was increased an extraordinary amount with the implementation of that final even chest. Keep in mind there were also technical problems during the final event where many people were disconnected or didn’t get their loot. There were also players that were double dipping into the chest and getting multiple precursors by logging in with multiple characters. SO many factors contributed to the sudden drop in price….it’s difficult to pinpoint whether it was solely the increase in supply, or if the panic, speculation, and players “just wanting to get paid” had anything to do with it.

munkiman.3068:

Charismatic Harm.9683:

@munkiman
snip…

Any way you look at it……it’s the players expectations that are out of whack…..not the systems in place currently. While they could probably be adjusted slightly, they aren’t SO broken that they need a complete overhaul.

And what happens when the majority of your players expectations are out of whack? You know the ones that supplement the income of the game by buying gems?

Blame the players all you want instead of the design, i’m sure that’ll get you to the 2 year mark you set up initially for the average player base you lost a year ago.

Hopefully you don’t represent anets outlook. That’s all i got.

Actually, I’ve seen plenty of games that allows players to buy in-game stat-boosting equipments for real cash. I never play all of them again, because rich kids with cash but no brains start pumping out money so much their character becomes instant god and they essentially steamrolled the other players.

So far, gems only allow you to buy things that cannot directly affect the gameplay: appearances, portable merchants, that sort of thing. I like it, it means everybody is in the same ground. True, you can trade gems for gold, but the point is, you can’t outright buy the stuff with gems.

About the supply of precursors, well, it’s for another thread.

Raestloz.7134:

About the supply of precursors, well, it’s for another thread.

Actually….no. That’s what THIS thread is about.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

munkiman.3068:

Just FYI, proceeding the karka event, the price of dusk plummeted 200g the next day. Proving that increasing the drop rate will make the prices for pres go down significantly.

The reason for this was because the entire supply was created at exactly the same time. So, what we saw was the market being flooded with precursors and everyone trying to sell theirs, and to do that, they were undercutting each other.

When looking at the price of Dusk around the time of the Lost Shores event, we can see the price at its highest (~410g) a few days before the event ended. During the final days of the event, prices began to plummet due to speculation of the final event chest rewarding precursors. On the 18th of November, when the event ended, prices fell continuously until the 21st when they bottomed out….falling to around 240g. It was only a temporary drop in price though as VERY soon after that, price began climbing again. They climbed steadily since then to the point we see them at now.

The factors involved during and after that event are more than just supply and demand. There was speculation and panic as well. The supply was increased an extraordinary amount with the implementation of that final even chest. Keep in mind there were also technical problems during the final event where many people were disconnected or didn’t get their loot. There were also players that were double dipping into the chest and getting multiple precursors by logging in with multiple characters. SO many factors contributed to the sudden drop in price….it’s difficult to pinpoint whether it was solely the increase in supply, or if the panic, speculation, and players “just wanting to get paid” had anything to do with it.

I understood the reason(s) behind the drop, I was just going off where you said there wouldn’t be a significant price drop if supply suddenly went up. I wholeheartedly believe we will see an increase in chance to get them. People that are going for them, working toward the goal of achieving a legendary, should be getting them at a fairly reasonable pace, unlike how it is now. Yet another person picked one up this weekend (zap) at the end of arah p3. Not suggesting the rate has been increased any, just that it was surprising to see one drop.

there was only a single The Hunter listed few days ago and naw POOF several The Hunter appearred out of nowhere? as well as other precursors.

Empressium.5482:

there was only a single The Hunter listed few days ago and naw POOF several The Hunter appearred out of nowhere? as well as other precursors.

Well, precursors do appear out of thin air. It’s not like there’s a blacksmith somewhere churning them out.

Maybe the buy orders got too low for folks to want to fill, so they’re coughing up the 5% to make a sale order. You can’t tell what’s really going on, because we don’t have any data on the actual sales of precursors. All we see are orders that can change for reasons other than an actual sale taking place.

Charismatic Harm.9683:

That’s right. They control the supply….NOT the price. The price, in this case, is STILL determined by overabundance of DEMAND!!!
I’m not neglecting that possibility….but it would also require the supply to be great enough to outweigh the current demand for the item. Doubling, tripling, or even, quadrupling the supply at this point would probably barely touch whether the price comes down…..again….based on the demand for the item. I guarantee you if they were to increase the supply of precursors, the price of Venom would fall because the demand for it just isn’t there to support the price it’s at now. As for Dusk / Dawn….there may be a reduction, but it would most likely be negligible.

Precursors….ALL precursors….are meant to be rare. Rarity usually comes with a price. I’m sure the intent of the low world and Mystic Forge drop rate was to keep precursors rare. I doubt ArenaNet could have predicted the disparity between Venom and Dusk…..but the fact is, the demand for Dusk is much higher than the demand for Venom, therefore, the price players are willing to pay for it is higher. If players didn’t want the item as badly as they do, the price wouldn’t be as high as it is.

Please take the time and read this article: http://www.investopedia.com/university/economics/economics3.asp

In particular, the section on “Excess Demand”. Maybe then you’ll truly understand what’s going on with these highly popular precursors.

I think you should reread the title of this topic(which you wrote). Supply and demand have an impact on price. If supply is increase price surely will drop.

How does tripling the mystic forge rate not cause the price to drop. If it cost an average of 200 gold to make a precursor, it will sell for 200 gold on TP. If Anet release more precursor in every event the price will be lower already. If the super adventure box event actually drop precursor the price will be low already.

Anet keep precursor price high because they want to sell more gem and they do want people to grind. Anet is doing exactly what every f2p games I played is doing. Make enormous gold sink so some people will buy gem. And making grindy content because they dont’ have infinit resource to make infinit content.

So can you stop with the obvious that item supply do have an impact on price and the more supply the lower the price will be.

And please stop telling me demand have an impact on price. Yes I get it, I said I agree so many times already. But so does the supply of item which you neglect it the entire time.

And you keep saying Anet don’t control the price. Oh wait, ya they don’t. They just take a back seat. Keep the price high because they want it so they can sell more gem and keep people playing their game because they don’t have enough content. Seriously it take 1500 cof runs to get a legendary. Don’t you think that number is a bit absurd?