Guild Wars 2

http://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/204bhe/the_vip_in_chinas_open_beta/

Did not know that the NA servers also had the exact same at one point (albeit never got released)

Win what?               

kokiman.2364:

Win what?               

win guild missions by being able to port to a friend when you found the objective of a guild bounty for example

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Win what?               

win guild missions by being able to port to a friend when you found the objective of a guild bounty for example

Oh okay, well that is a shame. Now they can more effectively farm guild bounties.
But you should change your threadtitle to pay2win guildbounties.

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Win what?               

win guild missions by being able to port to a friend when you found the objective of a guild bounty for example

Oh okay, well that is a shame. Now they can more effectively farm guild bounties.
But you should change your threadtitle to pay2win guildbounties.

“for example”

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Win what?               

win guild missions by being able to port to a friend when you found the objective of a guild bounty for example

Oh okay, well that is a shame. Now they can more effectively farm guild bounties.
But you should change your threadtitle to pay2win guildbounties.

“for example”

How about some other examples then

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Win what?               

win guild missions by being able to port to a friend when you found the objective of a guild bounty for example

Oh okay, well that is a shame. Now they can more effectively farm guild bounties.
But you should change your threadtitle to pay2win guildbounties.

“for example”

How about some other examples then

why should I? I’ve provided an example that should make this completely unacceptable.

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Win what?               

win guild missions by being able to port to a friend when you found the objective of a guild bounty for example

Oh okay, well that is a shame. Now they can more effectively farm guild bounties.
But you should change your threadtitle to pay2win guildbounties.

“for example”

How about some other examples then

why should I? I’ve provided an example that should make this completely unacceptable.

Because of the threadtitle. If there are no other examples just change it to “pay2win guildbounties”

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

kokiman.2364:

Win what?               

win guild missions by being able to port to a friend when you found the objective of a guild bounty for example

Oh okay, well that is a shame. Now they can more effectively farm guild bounties.
But you should change your threadtitle to pay2win guildbounties.

“for example”

How about some other examples then

why should I? I’ve provided an example that should make this completely unacceptable.

Because of the threadtitle. If there are no other examples just change it to “pay2win guildbounties”

so if I said that the resurrection buff allows you to basically skip through most PvE content and hence get world exploration much easier by just face ramming into POIs does that mean I need to include that to the title?

there is a limit of characters on the title and I can’t make it too long, there is absolutely no reason to change the title

title

thread title

Pie Flavor.1647:

so if I said that the resurrection buff allows you to basically skip through most PvE content and hence get world exploration much easier by just face ramming into POIs does that mean I need to include that to the title?

there is a limit of characters on the title and I can’t make it too long, there is absolutely no reason to change the title

title

thread title

[So the chinese gem store is literally pay2win] <-your threadtitle
[So the chinese gemstore is pay2winguildbounties]<- my proposal
[Post a pic of your character only if your armor is mix-n-match]<- the title of another thread just to show you how long those titles can be

What does the ressurection buff do?

The teleport has a 8 or10hour cooldown.

And since when is there a competition around getting 100%? I am sure people who speedrun these kind of things have rules that could include “do not use the VIP service”.

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

so if I said that the resurrection buff allows you to basically skip through most PvE content and hence get world exploration much easier by just face ramming into POIs does that mean I need to include that to the title?

there is a limit of characters on the title and I can’t make it too long, there is absolutely no reason to change the title

title

thread title

[So the chinese gem store is literally pay2win] <-your threadtitle
[So the chinese gemstore is pay2winguildbounties]<- my proposal
[Post a pic of your character only if your armor is mix-n-match]<- the title of another thread just to show you how long those titles can be

What does the ressurection buff do?

The teleport has a 8 or10hour cooldown.

And since when is there a competition around getting 100%? I am sure people who speedrun these kind of things have rules that could include “do not use the VIP service”.

the title gets out of hand if you expect me to include every single little example on it, how about we leave it on a general tone? why that obsession over the title?

the resurrect buff well… resurrects.

things like guild bounties have a longer than 8h 10min cooldown

and I think your last statment is an opinion and that it depends largely on the speedrunner

Pie Flavor.1647:

the title gets out of hand if you expect me to include every single little example on it, how about we leave it on a general tone? why that obsession over the title?

the resurrect buff well… resurrects.

things like guild bounties have a longer than 8h 10min cooldown

and I think your last statment is an opinion and that it depends largely on the speedrunner

So there will be a service that comes with the VIP status that ressurects you everytime you are down/dead? How will this work?

And my question still stands, since when is there a competition around getting 100% world completion?

kokiman.2364:

Pie Flavor.1647:

the title gets out of hand if you expect me to include every single little example on it, how about we leave it on a general tone? why that obsession over the title?

the resurrect buff well… resurrects.

things like guild bounties have a longer than 8h 10min cooldown

and I think your last statment is an opinion and that it depends largely on the speedrunner

So there will be a service that comes with the VIP status that ressurects you everytime you are down/dead? How will this work?

And my question still stands, since when is there a competition around getting 100% world completion?

even the worst case scenario, it will still be better than going back to a waypoint (unless normal players are not allowed to go back to a nearby waypoint, while VIP players are allowed to with this buff)

and yes, there is a competition on everything, otherwise the game would not be “fun” for a percentage of the community.

Oh okay                                                       

Taras.4578:

It’s sad that this generation of gaming has lost its bearing of the true meaning of “pay2win”.

Sometimes i wonder why people don’t already complain that its pay to win because you have to buy the box, so you can’t win if you don’t pay … ergo → P2W.

Also this discussion is already old, since somebody at Reddit datamined that VIP Image some months before.

First, the whole VIP issue in the western version was disproven within hours of the reddit post when it first came up. Second, this type of feature is expected in Chinese MMOs.

Nothing to see hear that affects us.

outdated information

Taras.4578:

It’s sad that this generation of gaming has lost its bearing of the true meaning of “pay2win”.

I know, it is sad that people don’t consider any of the P2W stuff actually P2W anymore. People just accept any item they can pay for that benefits themselves. 10 years ago even the existence of a gem shop would have spelled death for a game. Now people just accept having all the good content behind pay walls and paying to do pretty much anything else in the game as well.

It is sad GW2 succumbed to this as well. Thankfully Wildstar is staying loyal to their customers and not making the game full on P2W like this game ended up being.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Taras.4578:

It’s sad that this generation of gaming has lost its bearing of the true meaning of “pay2win”.

I know, it is sad that people don’t consider any of the P2W stuff actually P2W anymore. People just accept any item they can pay for that benefits themselves. 10 years ago even the existence of a gem shop would have spelled death for a game. Now people just accept having all the good content behind pay walls and paying to do pretty much anything else in the game as well.

It is sad GW2 succumbed to this as well. Thankfully Wildstar is staying loyal to their customers and not making the game full on P2W like this game ended up being.

I’m not sure if you noticed, but this is common in the game industry now, not just MMOs.

Industries and their customers change over time. Customers are obviously willing to pay more for games now and pay for extra content.

It’s not the fault of companies that they react to these changing customers demands and behaviors and as a result make more money. It’s a working model – why change it?

I know everyone here would want to have a free game or a game that is buy once and have free updates forever.

But that’s not the case anymore.

Not really play 2 win that is little overkill. Resurrection confusing but honestly I think it hardly gets used all that often other than AFTER boss fight for lazy kitten who laid there well I finish boss off. Access to Bank and TP, you basically have the TP to sell where ever you go do not get lazy on me, bank, oh well honestly this game is really friendly to not needing to go to bank often at all. (deposit collectibles, salvage, sell high priced items to TP) . I Personally think you may be over reacting to this, despite it is a very very very very small slight advantage quality of life upgrade that SHOULD generate millions for ANET and give us more game upgrades. I am all for it.

No matter what you are paying for, there is no way to win in China.

I think porting to friends would be fun upgrade for us (out of combat obviously). I think guild porting to guild officers should of been a thing for awhile, much better to meet up for events such as guild puzzles, although again this is extremely lazy because they are all near WP.

mtpelion.4562:

No matter what you are paying for, there is no way to win in China.

Ha ha true, and I think it is well documented fact this will be the last pvp season NA or EU has any chance of winning sPVP

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Taras.4578:

It’s sad that this generation of gaming has lost its bearing of the true meaning of “pay2win”.

I know, it is sad that people don’t consider any of the P2W stuff actually P2W anymore. People just accept any item they can pay for that benefits themselves. 10 years ago even the existence of a gem shop would have spelled death for a game. Now people just accept having all the good content behind pay walls and paying to do pretty much anything else in the game as well.

It is sad GW2 succumbed to this as well. Thankfully Wildstar is staying loyal to their customers and not making the game full on P2W like this game ended up being.

10 years ago I paid my dues every month. The only thing that got me was access to the game, nothing else. So if I am not a raider, bam, I don’t have access to certain armour and weapons for example (never mind the stats – they often also looked better).

Now I can “customize” my gaming experience. I might still not raid, but if I feel like it I can “buy” something and support the game, while always having access to the game without paying.

Combine this with the potential of not paying anything by playing even more (or cleverer, however you want to put it) and converting your gold …

In another game I always had to pay for the next expansion, I call that content behind a pay wall. Maybe expansions where the first real p2w items.

Rouven.7409:

10 years ago I paid my dues every month. The only thing that got me was access to the game, nothing else. So if I am not a raider, bam, I don’t have access to certain armour and weapons for example (never mind the stats – they often also looked better).

One of the main reasons i started with GW was that i simply hated raiding, and no matter how much i played i was always a second class citizen in these game who never had a chance to get anything of the nice stuff.

The Chinese client is basically a different game and has nothing to do with our gem store or trading post.
IF you think the items on offer in the chinese gem store are pay to win, i grant you your opinion but please discuss that in the chinese forums.

The purpose of every company is to extract the maximum possible amount out of their customers. If the Chinese are more willing to pay than the U.S., or willing to pay for different things, expect the company to cater to that market.

Just because it doesn’t fly here doesn’t mean it won’t fly there.

Nike.2631:

Porting directly to your buddy instead of walking for 20-150 seconds across a monumentally non-threatening bit of real estate from the nearest waypoint counts as winning now?

Seriously? That’s even more trivial an advantage than the infinite tools that’ll pay for themselves in 2.6 years of average play.

I guess I reserve the term ‘win’ for larger things.

Win or not, I’d pay 1250 gems to be able to teleport to any ally anywhere on any map instantly. And you can bet your britches everyone would complain about how unfair it was that I was paying for a service that is saving tons of travel time left and right.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Nike.2631:

Porting directly to your buddy instead of walking for 20-150 seconds across a monumentally non-threatening bit of real estate from the nearest waypoint counts as winning now?

Seriously? That’s even more trivial an advantage than the infinite tools that’ll pay for themselves in 2.6 years of average play.

I guess I reserve the term ‘win’ for larger things.

Win or not, I’d pay 1250 gems to be able to teleport to any ally anywhere on any map instantly. And you can bet your britches everyone would complain about how unfair it was that I was paying for a service that is saving tons of travel time left and right.

What if you can only do that every 8 hours? Because that’s how it works. It has an 8 hour cooldown.

To be honest I would not perceive that feature (porting) as “fair”. Peer pressure and such. I would prefer a solution more as a skill earned with a one or two hour cooldown.

But I’m ok with the chinese version coming out like that. They might have to grind more as well because it seems in general they like doing it. No offense intended.

From what I gather, P2W is a common feature in Chinese MMOs and those that do not have that kind of feature are doomed to fail. It’s catering to the customer base in order to actually sell the game. The same tactics don’t sell games in the west, and as such the western GW2 and Chinese GW2 are not really the same game.

Whatever the Chinese version does has nothing to do with the game we play, so it’s a moot point.

Not just Chinese, Asian MMOs in general are P2W.

But yes it is a moot point, that I honestly could care less about.

I’m just glad I don’t play any Asian MMOs anymore. Cause I was rly rly good at ‘paying’ to win. It sucked the life out of gaming for me, and drained my bank account.

Vol.7601:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Taras.4578:

It’s sad that this generation of gaming has lost its bearing of the true meaning of “pay2win”.

I know, it is sad that people don’t consider any of the P2W stuff actually P2W anymore. People just accept any item they can pay for that benefits themselves. 10 years ago even the existence of a gem shop would have spelled death for a game. Now people just accept having all the good content behind pay walls and paying to do pretty much anything else in the game as well.

It is sad GW2 succumbed to this as well. Thankfully Wildstar is staying loyal to their customers and not making the game full on P2W like this game ended up being.

I’m not sure if you noticed, but this is common in the game industry now, not just MMOs.

Industries and their customers change over time. Customers are obviously willing to pay more for games now and pay for extra content.

It’s not the fault of companies that they react to these changing customers demands and behaviors and as a result make more money. It’s a working model – why change it?

I know everyone here would want to have a free game or a game that is buy once and have free updates forever.

But that’s not the case anymore.

I don’t blame the companies, I blame this generation of NOW NOW NOW players. Obviously the companies want to make money and this is the best way.

I would just prefer to go back to the old model of pay one set monthly fee and get all the content. Take this instant teleport to a friend button. In GW2 this feature costs 1200 gems and can only be used every 8 hours. In wildstar you can port your entire party to your location every 60 minutes for free. That’s the equivalent of 4 of these items and with a cooldown 1/8 as long.

So either pay 1200 gems = $20 to use a feature once every 8 hours (i’m assuming its permanent and not 1 time use) or just pay your monthly fee of $15 and this feature is included, is more convenient, and can be used more often.

People have this notion that F2P with a cash shop is cheaper to play, but they don’t take in to consideration the fact that all those things you do have to pay for would be included in a sub game model. I wouldn’t need to pay for each and every convenience, I could earn the items in the actual game.

Vol.7601:

What if you can only do that every 8 hours? Because that’s how it works. It has an 8 hour cooldown.

That’s pretty rough, and far less useful in that case. I probably wouldn’t pay for it in that case. Maybe they’ll eventually have the option of a 2500 gems method that removes that cooldown.

From what I’m hearing about the chinese gaming community, I’ll go ahead and predict that players with commander tags with vastly outnumber players without them. Like at least 90% will have them within a few months.

Rising Dusk.2408:

Vol.7601:

What if you can only do that every 8 hours? Because that’s how it works. It has an 8 hour cooldown.

That’s pretty rough, and far less useful in that case. I probably wouldn’t pay for it in that case. Maybe they’ll eventually have the option of a 2500 gems method that removes that cooldown.

It’d still make it easy to finish uber-hard jumping puzzles (such as that stepping stone one in southsun)

It’s in china-not here-Who cares?

Blude.6812:

It’s in china-not here-Who cares?

In general I think players should be interested and hope for a good release in China. Success in the west means more funds for this game.

My big concern about the China release is the China market having an impact for NA/EU. We already have the old rumors of Cantha being shelved due to the reluctance of acceptance from the Chinese.

Who knows what kind of content and projects that would be planned by Anet got shelved because KongZhong said ‘no’?

Vol.7601:

My big concern about the China release is the China market having an impact for NA/EU. We already have the old rumors of Cantha being shelved due to the reluctance of acceptance from the Chinese.

New Panda Race confirmed.

Microtransactions and vanity items are important to Chinese and Korean players. These groups tend to have more disposable income, or the willingness to spend a large portion of their income, on games. That’s why P2W games are popular in Asia. I remember reading an article of a player would bid $16,000 to have a unique, one of a kind in-game sword.

As for these items being P2W, these are close, but still not at the same levels of other Asian games. So far, none of the items I’m seeing provide any clear advantages for paying customers than non-paying. But once we see Gem store items that increase weapon damage or armor rating (not counting +5% boosters) by large amounts, then the game can effectively be called P2W.

Taras.4578:

It’s sad that this generation of gaming has lost its bearing of the true meaning of “pay2win”.

So what is the meaning of “pay2win” for you?

The definition is completely subjective, and it depends vastly on the application, so go for it.

will the chinese players be like NA and EU where only the trading post joins them but otherwise they can’t really play together?

this is probably the wrong spot to ask, but I just thought of it: is edge of the mists separated into NA and EU? I would think it is, but I haven’t heard for sure either way.

Katastrofi.5816:

Taras.4578:

It’s sad that this generation of gaming has lost its bearing of the true meaning of “pay2win”.

So what is the meaning of “pay2win” for you?

The definition is completely subjective, and it depends vastly on the application, so go for it.

It’s actually not that subjective. P2W means paying money to win. In a PvP situation, paying for a sword that has vastly better stats over what’s available for a non-paying customer is what P2W is all about. Think of it like “paying for a guaranteed win”. Same thing if you had a game with airplanes. Paying real money to buy an F-16 to combat someone in a hang-glider.

I’m not too sure what the big fuss is here. It’s a Chinese client, and their game models don’t function like NA/EU games do from my experience. This also has absolutely nothing to do with us, and most likely it was due their Chinese publisher wanting these type of things put in, not necessarily ANet themselves.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

It’s actually not that subjective. P2W means paying money to win. In a PvP situation, paying for a sword that has vastly better stats over what’s available for a non-paying customer is what P2W is all about. Think of it like “paying for a guaranteed win”. Same thing if you had a game with airplanes. Paying real money to buy an F-16 to combat someone in a hang-glider.

About time someone actually gets what ‘Pay to win’ means. There is little to no wiggle room for interpreting p2w as far as I’m concerned. The term is exactly what it says, you are paying real currency for a gain over everyone else which results in you winning.

Pie Flavor.1647:

the title gets out of hand if you expect me to include every single little example on it, how about we leave it on a general tone? why that obsession over the title?

the resurrect buff well… resurrects.

things like guild bounties have a longer than 8h 10min cooldown

and I think your last statment is an opinion and that it depends largely on the speedrunner

Neither of those are p2w and frankly, who gives a rats kitten if it is? If it means I’m not pushed closer to paying a monthly fee, I don’t CARE who can do these things, as long as the money flows into the gemstore.

The p2w crying is a little ridiculous. Other than the fact that shortsighted people don’t recognize how gemstore benefits them, they also don’t get the fact that these ‘p2w’ items can b purchased by EVERYONE because you can not only get gems wtih RL money but ingame gold. The gemstore ain’t going nowhere. Might as well stop the QQ>

From what I hear, the rules for Chinese GW2 are drastically different too. Trait points are allocated much differently, and you don’t unlock your elite skill slot till level 50. I guess that puts to bed any idea that we’ll be playing alongside the Chinese market; they’re literally playing a different game.

Regardless, I hope it’s a success in China.

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Microtransactions and vanity items are important to Chinese and Korean players. These groups tend to have more disposable income, or the willingness to spend a large portion of their income, on games. That’s why P2W games are popular in Asia. I remember reading an article of a player would bid $16,000 to have a unique, one of a kind in-game sword.

As for these items being P2W, these are close, but still not at the same levels of other Asian games. So far, none of the items I’m seeing provide any clear advantages for paying customers than non-paying. But once we see Gem store items that increase weapon damage or armor rating (not counting +5% boosters) by large amounts, then the game can effectively be called P2W.

the amount of ignorant assumptions here is incredible.

vanity items are just as important to western players as to korean/chinese players, they are also human, and not drastically different from us.

And why do they have more disposable income? I thought the entire concept of First World meant that people on the First World would have more disposable income, yet again, a “statistic” not backed by any source

And why if someone bought a virtual item for $16000? Golden Roshan couriers for Dota 2 are selling for $1000+ each, and there are several of them, I’d say the western virtual market moves as much money as the asian virtual market.

Once again, people jumping into the “asians are different” card when in reality they have no idea what they’re talking about.

Pie Flavor.1647:

Smooth Penguin.5294:

Microtransactions and vanity items are important to Chinese and Korean players. These groups tend to have more disposable income, or the willingness to spend a large portion of their income, on games. That’s why P2W games are popular in Asia. I remember reading an article of a player would bid $16,000 to have a unique, one of a kind in-game sword.

As for these items being P2W, these are close, but still not at the same levels of other Asian games. So far, none of the items I’m seeing provide any clear advantages for paying customers than non-paying. But once we see Gem store items that increase weapon damage or armor rating (not counting +5% boosters) by large amounts, then the game can effectively be called P2W.

the amount of ignorant assumptions here is incredible.

vanity items are just as important to western players as to korean/chinese players, they are also human, and not drastically different from us.

And why do they have more disposable income? I thought the entire concept of First World meant that people on the First World would have more disposable income, yet again, a “statistic” not backed by any source

And why if someone bought a virtual item for $16000? Golden Roshan couriers for Dota 2 are selling for $1000+ each, and there are several of them, I’d say the western virtual market moves as much money as the asian virtual market.

Once again, people jumping into the “asians are different” card when in reality they have no idea what they’re talking about.

But they are different, hence Western MMO and Eastern MMO. They cater to different playstyles and the Chinese release of GW2 is trying to adapt it to the eastern market.

Taste is different in various regions. From food over TV to games. Just because there is a prominent fast food chain in every country doesn’t make local cuisine go away. Heck even that fast food chain makes things slightly different in other countries.

There is also a difference in perceived value for goods in countries and as such some are willing to pay more (or less) than others for the same thing.

This thread may have run it’s course if the only argument left is to tell others how ignorant they are.