Guild Wars 2

Less than a month ago the Lover bow was a little over 300g. Twice now all the bows on the market have been bought and raised in price. First the guy put them back up for 500g and now they’re 700g.

So my question is will there be something put in place to protect the tp from being abused like this in the future from trolly people who have too much money?

Nope, it’s totally legitimate, and Anet is doing absolutely nothing about it besides dropping contradictory statements about an eventual precursor scavenger hunt.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in on it, as they have an active interest in keeping the prices high enough that they’re out of reach of the average player.

which really really sucks… although I don’t believe that anet is in on that directly

Ansultares.1567:

Nope, it’s totally legitimate, and Anet is doing absolutely nothing about it besides dropping contradictory statements about an eventual precursor scavenger hunt.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in on it, as they have an active interest in keeping the prices high enough that they’re out of reach of the average player.

Except they don’t….

Anet would rather 10,000 player pay about $10 buying smaller things than a few people paying $1500+ for a legendary.

That appears how their business model is setup.

These items are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

The more players acquire wealth, the more players reach 80, the more players find themselves situated and decide to pursue their legendary, the more these legendary-precursors are going to rise in price.

There is zero evidence that these precursors are being manipulated, and unless Arenanet definitively confirms otherwise, there is no reason to believe it.

Virtually ALL desirable items have risen in price, dyes, mystic weapons, mystic coins, globs of ectoplasms, lodestones, ect. I recall around the time this game came out, mystic coins were 2s, unid dyes were 3s, mystic weapons were 3g, and ectoplasms were 12s. No sinister manipulation here, no secret conspiracy to control these items, it’s simply gold inflation + supply/demand. Same thing is happening with precursors, except these items are much much more desirable.

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Ansultares.1567:

Nope, it’s totally legitimate, and Anet is doing absolutely nothing about it besides dropping contradictory statements about an eventual precursor scavenger hunt.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in on it, as they have an active interest in keeping the prices high enough that they’re out of reach of the average player.

Except they don’t….

Anet would rather 10,000 player pay about $10 buying smaller things than a few people paying $1500+ for a legendary.

That appears how their business model is setup.

Except right now the few people who are buying their legendaries are spending the money on gold sellers instead of anet, but, then again, we don’t know if anet or ncsoft has directly any involvement with those gold sellers. Who knows.

Sunreva.8714:

These items are worth what people are willing to pay for them.

The more players acquire wealth, the more players reach 80, the more players find themselves situated and decide to pursue their legendary, the more these legendary-precursors are going to rise in price.

There is zero evidence that these precursors are being manipulated, and unless Arenanet definitively confirms otherwise, there is no reason to believe it.

Virtually ALL desirable items have risen in price, dyes, mystic weapons, mystic coins, globs of ectoplasms, lodestones, ect. I recall around the time this game came out, mystic coins were 2s, unid dyes were 3s, mystic weapons were 3g, and ectoplasms were 12s. No sinister manipulation here, no secret conspiracy to control these items, it’s simply gold inflation + supply/demand.

So let me get this straight…Randomly on multiple occasions the entire supply of certain precursors randomly all get bought out at the same time…then randomly appear back at significantly high prices which are marginalized by more than the tp tax?

Yeah…I concur nothing suspicious there

Essence Snow.3194:

So let me get this straight…Randomly on multiple occasions the entire supply of certain precursors randomly all get bought out at the same time…then randomly appear back at significantly high prices which are marginalized by more than the tp tax?

You say that happend. Any evidence for that other than your word?

Gasoline.2570:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Ansultares.1567:

Nope, it’s totally legitimate, and Anet is doing absolutely nothing about it besides dropping contradictory statements about an eventual precursor scavenger hunt.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in on it, as they have an active interest in keeping the prices high enough that they’re out of reach of the average player.

Except they don’t….

Anet would rather 10,000 player pay about $10 buying smaller things than a few people paying $1500+ for a legendary.

That appears how their business model is setup.

Except right now the few people who are buying their legendaries are spending the money on gold sellers instead of anet, but, then again, we don’t know if anet or ncsoft has directly any involvement with those gold sellers. Who knows.

Lol conspiracy theories

Essence Snow.3194:

So let me get this straight…Randomly on multiple occasions the entire supply of certain precursors randomly all get bought out at the same time…then randomly appear back at significantly high prices which are marginalized by more than the tp tax?

Yeah…I concur nothing suspicious there

The precursors you speak of are in relatively low supply (we’re talking about under 10 for Dusk/Dawn/Legend, ect) for the most part. So no, it’s not suspicious that these very few (yet highly desirable) items eventually get bought up (and are not immediately replenished on the TP) over the course of a few days.

If I could casually (extremely casually) farm 65g in 5 days, then surely there are people who can farm double that or even triple if they are committed, and thus be able to afford a Dusk/Dawn/Legend within a week or two.

The problem here is that no two players are alike, and people farm gold at different paces. Should I sell a mystic weapon for 3g instead of 9g because my higher price discriminates against the players who can’t afford 9g for 1 item because they only play 30 minutes a day/and farm 20 silver an hour? Of course not. Similarly, should the guy with Dusk sell his item for 200g instead of 600g to accommodate the people who can only farm 3g per day? Of course not.

The irony is, if any of these players desperately wanting a certain precursor (say Dusk) were to come into a different precursor (say, the Lover) would you see them sell their item for significantly lower than the lowest sell price? Yeah, right. Sellers want as much as they can get, and buyers want it for as little as they have to spend.

Nozdrum.2894:

Essence Snow.3194:

So let me get this straight…Randomly on multiple occasions the entire supply of certain precursors randomly all get bought out at the same time…then randomly appear back at significantly high prices which are marginalized by more than the tp tax?

You say that happend. Any evidence for that other than your word?

http://www.guildwarstrade.com/item/29178

Look what happened to the price yesterday…that is what prompted this post.

Doesn’t prove it was 1 person or a group colluding…but it shows what OP is talking about.

Who says that they have been bought. They have been removed from the tp. Maybe the guy seeling those came to the conclusion that he wants more for his stuff and put em back at a higher price. Maybe these are not even the same the lover’s, maybe someone did see that there are no the lover’s more on the tp and that he could sell his for a nice profit and buy another legendary and have some money over.
I am not saying your explanation is not valid. It is an option to explain those numbers, but it is not the only one.

Also these graphs are a good example of supply/demand. As you can see on Jan 30 there is one the lover in tp for 800g and over some time the supply rises and the prices falls. I guess in over a week or two the price will be the same as it has been some time ago, maybe higher because some items like ectoplasma rose in price. And believe me if you are trying to manipulate the market this way it is gonna cost a bunch if no one is buying your stuff at a high price because the tp-fee will kill you and your family.

My point is: The data helps your point ( not enterily because the droping price is working against the market-manipulator not for him ), but it does not rule every other option out and so it is only one of many explanation that do not have enough backup to be the only explanation.

Gasoline.2570:

xxxzavulonxxx.8413:

Ansultares.1567:

Nope, it’s totally legitimate, and Anet is doing absolutely nothing about it besides dropping contradictory statements about an eventual precursor scavenger hunt.

I wouldn’t be surprised if they were in on it, as they have an active interest in keeping the prices high enough that they’re out of reach of the average player.

Except they don’t….

Anet would rather 10,000 player pay about $10 buying smaller things than a few people paying $1500+ for a legendary.

That appears how their business model is setup.

Except right now the few people who are buying their legendaries are spending the money on gold sellers instead of anet, but, then again, we don’t know if anet or ncsoft has directly any involvement with those gold sellers. Who knows.

Totally!!!!

Hey check out my website tinfoilhatchinstraps.com. They help keep your hat on nice and tight so ANET can’t sneak in while you sleep and your guard is down.

Nozdrum.2894:

Who says that they have been bought. They have been removed from the tp. Maybe the guy seeling those came to the conclusion that he wants more for his stuff and put em back at a higher price. Maybe these are not even the same the lover’s, maybe someone did see that there are no the lover’s more on the tp and that he could sell his for a nice profit and buy another legendary and have some money over.
I am not saying your explanation is not valid. It is an option to explain those numbers, but it is not the only one.

Also these graphs are a good example of supply/demand. As you can see on Jan 30 there is one the lover in tp for 800g and over some time the supply rises and the prices falls. I guess in over a week or two the price will be the same as it has been some time ago, maybe higher because some items like ectoplasma rose in price. And believe me if you are trying to manipulate the market this way it is gonna cost a bunch if no one is buying your stuff at a high price because the tp-fee will kill you and your family.

My point is: The data helps your point ( not enterily because the droping price is working against the market-manipulator not for him ), but it does not rule every other option out and so it is only one of many explanation that do not have enough backup to be the only explanation.

Regardless of whether or not someone/s bought them or they were removed by someone/s, effectively it accomplishes the same thing.

No this topic is about abusing the tp. And yet someone has to prove that the tp is being abused. If you say that selling items with a high demand and low supply is abusing then you have no understanding of economics.

I mean it effectively inhibits supply to raise price. As you’ll notice when ever this happens not all of the items are put back together…rather trickled back in. I don’t think has anything to do with my understanding of econ.

I just love how a number of you people are complaining about prices for items increasing. I hate to tell you, but that is how a free market system works.

The price will go to whatever someone is willing to pay and overall wealth of the community. There will always be haves and have nots.

You really have 5 options,
1) play more, watch your spending, budget, and make more money
2) buy gems and convert to gold
3) play the MF toilet
4) Give up on a legendary
5) quit playing altogether

This is a big world people. Costs will continue to go up based on how much gold is in the system and a overall wealth of the community.

When the game first came out 3 gold was a lot of money. Now, 100G is nothing.

So don’t hold your breath on costs going down anytime soon.

Nozdrum.2894:

Essence Snow.3194:

So let me get this straight…Randomly on multiple occasions the entire supply of certain precursors randomly all get bought out at the same time…then randomly appear back at significantly high prices which are marginalized by more than the tp tax?

You say that happend. Any evidence for that other than your word?

He speaks the truth. I know this for a fact because I’ve been looking at the bow on the tp very closely the past few weeks and that is exactly what happened. All taken off then the exact same number of bows put back on for a significantly higher price a day after.

randomfightfan.4091:

Nozdrum.2894:

Essence Snow.3194:

So let me get this straight…Randomly on multiple occasions the entire supply of certain precursors randomly all get bought out at the same time…then randomly appear back at significantly high prices which are marginalized by more than the tp tax?

You say that happend. Any evidence for that other than your word?

He speaks the truth. I know this for a fact because I’ve been looking at the bow on the tp very closely the past few weeks and that is exactly what happened. All taken off then the exact same number of bows put back on for a significantly higher price a day after.

I really do not want to repeat myself so I will just link it: https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/The-bl-TP-being-abused/first#post1338293

I hope that eventually the gem→gold conversion becomes comparable to the black market sellers in an economy where you feel like you can actually get something useful for your money. As it stands, I don’t feel as though I get enough bang for my buck in this economy from gems, and I refuse to support black market traders, so I just don’t spend any money at all; it is frustrating when I’d like to spend the money and get some value out of it, but don’t feel that I can.

John Smith.4610:

Gasoline.2570:

Except right now the few people who are buying their legendaries are spending the money on gold sellers instead of anet, but, then again, we don’t know if anet or ncsoft has directly any involvement with those gold sellers. Who knows.

Goldsellers are a plague on the gaming industry, plain and simple, I would sooner associate with Ralphie from “The League”… much, much sooner

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Gold-sellers-vs-BLTC/first#post581941

If gold sellers are a plague on the gaming industry, then why are Anet selling ingame gold for ‘real world’ money? Surely the effect on players is the same (ie players can acquired in-game benefits they haven’t earned by playing the game) regardless of whether it’s Anet doing the gold selling or some other company doing the gold selling?

Right, but as you mention, there’s an upper threshold where it no longer becomes profitable for them because the players can get so much value out of the ANet conversion. (ie. It’s not worth their time to farm/bot/etc. the gold any longer) At that point, they will liquidate what they have and no longer operate within GW2. That is the point where, if we reach it (hopefully we will), it will equalize the whole system and remove the black market guys from the equation.

Yeah, which is unfortunate. Hence all of the “hope” in my previous posts.

I think the best thing you (ANet) could do is to add as much “value” to gems as possible by adding new items / armor sets / etc. to the gem store. This encourages wealthy players to convert lots of gold to gems, driving up the value of gems, getting us closer to where everyone wants to be (putting black market traders out of business). Of course people will buy gems too, but I think there’s a lot of room for balancing the value of gems up. I’m convinced if you added things like ‘Permanent Bank Access’ items to the gem store for 10,000 gems or something high, people would go for it and it’d push things in the right direction (I know you cannot comment on what exactly ANet is thinking of adding to the store, just tossing out ideas).

Good to hear. I look forward to the day when the gem is valued highly and gold sellers are seeing red.

John, your answers and conversation are appreciated as always, is there any chance you could direct a response to the initial inquiry of the thread though?

So my question is will there be something put in place to protect the tp from being abused like this in the future from trolly people who have too much money?

Yes, it’s obviously an open market, to a degree. There are levels that are controlled by the designers/developers/etc; I’m making about the same amount of money I’ve ever made, yet precursor prices are going from double to quadruple the prices they were when we had responses from you and other ANet reps that the high prices were being looked into.

Maybe I am missing information that has been stated in the past, but are we just supposed to deal with this and continue saving up hoping that those gaming the market aren’t making money at the same time to increase the prices even more?

I saw on the net that you are banning the gold buyers, and not just the sellers, and I applaud you for doing so, but it looks like a number of them are getting away with getting their ill gotten gains by using the guild bank as a transfer. Just thought I would let you know.

Goldsellers are a plague, but, contrary to hopes and expectations, the GW2 economy does not seem to be being managed to thwart rapid inflation, with said inflation making it possible for gold sellers to keep on selling, even as you increase your efforts to crack down on them.

We’ve already seen you create mechanisms to raise prices on goods that became over abundant, I think it’s about time you also take serious steps to adjust supply on items showing run away inflation in a way that will knock those prices back down to sane levels.

If this happened regularly with high ticket price, often manipulated item markets with in the game, then maybe the speculators would be a little more cautious with their efforts to corner the market and set prices.

I’d suggest such efforts would also be good for the legal $$$ for Gems for Gold trade, as current prices likely price out a large number of “whales” who might otherwise have been willing to pay cash to Arenanet for the gold needed to buy their legendaries.

This all comes right back around to gold sellers. Buying 900G via Arenanet may be way out of the question for many, but some of those who would otherwise have been willing to go the legit route may feel forced/justified/incentivized to take the risk and get that 900G a lot cheaper via illegitimate gold sellers.

Market manipulation based noninflationary pressures are probably the biggest thing currently supporting gold sellers. The demand for massive amounts of gold provides them the margin to absorb the losses of time and money when their efforts are thwarted.

What’s the solution? As I said, better anti-inflationary measures would be an obvious start. Items showing highest inflation should have their drop rates increased until inflation is brought under control and speculators are brought to heel. Limits on the total gold value of listed items an account can have on the TP at any time would also greatly slow down efforts to manipulate the market. It would also apply the breaks to to insane rates at which some of these people are accumulating wealth. Wealth accumulation that, at that level, can not help but be destructive to the game.

Accumulation of wealth through game play seems too stingy, but could be accepted if it was actually succeeding at keeping inflation in check. The market manipulators are providing huge upward pressure on inflation rates while providing no value to the game or the game’s community. Those of us playing the game, rather than just sitting in front of the TP all day, have seen drop rates and earning power decrease, while insane levels of wealth accumulation via the TP remain untouched. Seems like someone’s priorities are a bit backward!

Another important step is to crack down on market traders who are using scripting and botting to support high volume transactions on the TP. We’ve seen confessions of former market players/manipulators recently that confirm that they were using prohibited means to make their efforts more productive until they finally just got bored with the entire thing and quit. Rates of transactions that could not be performed by a real person should be identified, flagged, investigated and lead to bans when sufficient evidence is accumulated.

There are other methods as well, but these would provide a start.

All MMOs with active AH/Trading posts attract and support players who focus on little to nothing else other than wealth accumulation by playing the market. Few have allowed the ability to trade items that could even hope to support the insane price levels we are seeing now and that has been for good reason. Pre-cursors and legendaries being tradeable on the market puts even more pressure on Arenanet to ensure that anti-inflationary, anti-market manipulation mechanisms are in place.

If you want to understand how gold sellers can keep turning a profit even with high efficiency at cracking down on their gold earning efforts you don’t have to look any further than the way the economy is being managed at the high end. In fact, my guess is that a number of those active in high end market manipulation are gold sellers or those earning money working for them. Why not? It appears it’s by far the most efficient way to earn gold in the game and since Arenanet seems to believe that such market manipulation is legitimate, the only danger to the sellers is in being caught in the actual act of selling, not in the act of accumulating. That’s a big plus over running obvious bots out in the game world.

Someone needs to wake up over at Arenanet and recognize that there are differences between what’s healthy for a real world economy and what’s healthy for an in game economy. Real world economic ideology should not dictate how an in game economy is run and taking steps to crack down on those accumulating massive wealth via the TP will say nothing about one’s real life economic beliefs.

Well said ^^ 15 charrs

pulsecodesgnl.3470:

I’m making about the same amount of money I’ve ever made, yet precursor prices are going from double to quadruple the prices they were when we had responses from you and other ANet reps that the high prices were being looked into.

Maybe I am missing information that has been stated in the past, but are we just supposed to deal with this and continue saving up hoping that those gaming the market aren’t making money at the same time to increase the prices even more?

As long as somebody buys those goods, their price will rise. Otherwise they’ll be taken off and put again at a lower price after a while. Sounds just fine. The problem isn’t the TP; it’s the precursor drop RNG factor.

Yes precursor prices are being drived to insane prices because gold sellers does not care what the price is currently in. They have thousands of gold, and they only want to trade them for real money. Selling legendaries, precursors and their mats in general seems much easier and safer for clients.

I have seen everywhere about tons of schemes to avoid being detected and banned. One of them involved selling a obscure item to another client for a really high price. Sure the gold company will lose 15% gold, but it isn’t like they lack money.

They even have programs that automatize the TP requests and automatically undercut/overcut anyone. One guy in reddit even admitted he got thousand of gold this way, but ironically, he got banned for another reason, the snowflakes exploit.

As long there is people willing to buy gold, they will be there ruining the economy. I hope anet punish the buyers as much they punish the sellers, which doesn’t seem to be happening. There is a forum that i browse with tons of people that admitted buying gold since the release’s month, and nothing ever happened.

Iruwen.3164:

As long as somebody buys those goods, their price will rise. Otherwise they’ll be taken off and put again at a lower price after a while. Sounds just fine. The problem isn’t the TP; it’s the precursor drop RNG factor.

And those people involve gold companies and gold buyers. Normal players cannot compete with someone who can buy 100 gold with 23 dollars, or the gold seller who can produce any amount they want. It take me weeks to just get 100 gold, i play 24/7. Now someone who worked irl for 3 days can buy a precursor, setting new base prices for it.

I was going to suggest making gold untrade-able to stop gold sellers, but then someone mentioned the guild bank as a way to exchange gold. so nevermind….

John Smith.4610:

As soon as you begin referring to luxury goods as an inflationary issue I start skimming instead of reading. Within the last hour I’ve specifically said that you’re mistaking inflation for what is not inflation. Precursor prices aren’t changing due to inflation.

They are providing the mechanism for exponential earning of wealth via the TP, which, yes, indeed is driving inflation.

BTW, I’ve heard that some gold sellers are now selling precursors directly for cash, rather than gold. How do you catch those transactions? Have it be ok to sell pre-cursors on the TP, but not trade them via mail?

Why do people make this humongous assumption that high precursor prices are caused by gold sellers and “market manipulators?”

I swear, in every other thread in the BLT subforum, I read post that say “blah blah is so expensive, this is so unfair, thanks market manipulators.”

Do people not have faith in the effects of supply and demand, driven by the general populace? Do people seriously think that their idea of “fair value” applies to everyone else in the game?

John Smith.4610:

Goldsellers are a plague on the gaming industry, plain and simple, I would sooner associate with Ralphie from “The League”… much, much sooner

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Gold-sellers-vs-BLTC/first#post581941

However, no matter how I look at the game, the way you have set up the economy of the game is totally weighted towards favoring the goldsellers.

John Smith.4610:

Fiontar.4695:

John Smith.4610:

As soon as you begin referring to luxury goods as an inflationary issue I start skimming instead of reading. Within the last hour I’ve specifically said that you’re mistaking inflation for what is not inflation. Precursor prices aren’t changing due to inflation.

They are providing the mechanism for exponential earning of wealth via the TP, which, yes, indeed is driving inflation.

I’m a bit busy for the moment, can someone step in and explain why this isn’t true please?

Certainly John.

In a MMO, you have gold taps and gold sinks. Gold taps are what introduces gold to the economy, and gold sinks are what removes gold from the economy.

Examples of gold taps are gold drops from mobs, selling items to vendors, etc. You’re creating gold out of nothing essentially, and adding it to the game’s economy.

Examples of gold sinks are waypoints, repair costs, and TP listing fees. They remove the gold out of the economy.

You have inflation is gold taps outweight the gold sinks. Players are creating more money than destroying it. Hence there is more gold around in the in-game economy, gold becomes more worthless, and prices in general of EVERYTHING goes up. That is inflation.

But trading on the TP is NOT creating gold. In fact, with the listing fees, it’s doing the exact opposite. Every time a precursor is sold, a chunk of that gold is removed from the game. Yes, people are getting wealthier, but on the flip side someone just lost all that gold. The net gain in the game’s economy is negative, since gold was destroyed.

TL;DR: Trading over the TP is a gold sink, not a gold tap, cannot cause inflation.

Hey John. There are the solutions:
1st & best: ALL items, including legendary weapons should earned with skill and by completing challanges. Don’t force players to grind, farm and buy gold for it.
2nd: Mailing system should track higher amount of gold and expensive item transfers. If someone reveives like 100+ gold or ectos, or an expensive item like Dust, both account will be monitored.
3rd: Sell ingame gold directly with a price the botters can’t race.
4th: Hire GMs like me to keep servers clean. We’ll do our job perfectly for ingame payments.

And insane kartelling and TP manipulationing should be stopped.
No Asian IP should access EU or NA registrated accounts. Autoblock.

John Smith.4610:

Fiontar.4695:

John Smith.4610:

As soon as you begin referring to luxury goods as an inflationary issue I start skimming instead of reading. Within the last hour I’ve specifically said that you’re mistaking inflation for what is not inflation. Precursor prices aren’t changing due to inflation.

They are providing the mechanism for exponential earning of wealth via the TP, which, yes, indeed is driving inflation.

I’m a bit busy for the moment, can someone step in and explain why this isn’t true please?

Sure. It’s impossible to actually inflate the economy via TP transactions at all, as all it does is move existing money around in the system. It’s actually taking gold out of the economy slightly because the TP takes a tax out of every transaction, thus lowering the overall amount of gold in the game. Wealth flowing to a narrow set of individuals isn’t the same thing as inflation, which is an increase of price levels in the aggregate.

That’s why precursors are a really bad example of the economy in general, they’re extremely rare and in high demand, so there’s a low volume of trades and a high ceiling for prices; this’ll push the prices up to whatever the richest players in the game can afford, but it’s only because of their unique status as rare and desirable that allows this.

RoyalPredator.9163:

Hey John. There are the solutions:
1st & best: ALL items, including legendary weapons should earned with skill and by completing challanges. Don’t force players to grind, farm and buy gold for it.

People keep on saying this. “Legendaries should be about skill and challenges, not money!”

Like, how do you do this while still retaining the rarity of a legendary? You can’t, unless you make it impossible for the MAJORITY of the player base to attain because they lack a certain “skill.”

Unless you propose a system which ends up in everybody obtaining a Legendary. Then there is no point is there?

Carzor Stelatis.9435:

John Smith.4610:

Gasoline.2570:

Except right now the few people who are buying their legendaries are spending the money on gold sellers instead of anet, but, then again, we don’t know if anet or ncsoft has directly any involvement with those gold sellers. Who knows.

Goldsellers are a plague on the gaming industry, plain and simple, I would sooner associate with Ralphie from “The League”… much, much sooner

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/Gold-sellers-vs-BLTC/first#post581941

If gold sellers are a plague on the gaming industry, then why are Anet selling ingame gold for ‘real world’ money? Surely the effect on players is the same (ie players can acquired in-game benefits they haven’t earned by playing the game) regardless of whether it’s Anet doing the gold selling or some other company doing the gold selling?

No, it isn’t. You should read the post he linked.

Ursan.7846:

John Smith.4610:

Fiontar.4695:

John Smith.4610:

As soon as you begin referring to luxury goods as an inflationary issue I start skimming instead of reading. Within the last hour I’ve specifically said that you’re mistaking inflation for what is not inflation. Precursor prices aren’t changing due to inflation.

They are providing the mechanism for exponential earning of wealth via the TP, which, yes, indeed is driving inflation.

I’m a bit busy for the moment, can someone step in and explain why this isn’t true please?

Certainly John.

In a MMO, you have gold taps and gold sinks. Gold taps are what introduces gold to the economy, and gold sinks are what removes gold from the economy.

Examples of gold taps are gold drops from mobs, selling items to vendors, etc. You’re creating gold out of nothing essentially, and adding it to the game’s economy.

Examples of gold sinks are waypoints, repair costs, and TP listing fees. They remove the gold out of the economy.

You have inflation is gold taps outweight the gold sinks. Players are creating more money than destroying it. Hence there is more gold around in the in-game economy, gold becomes more worthless, and prices in general of EVERYTHING goes up. That is inflation.

But trading on the TP is NOT creating gold. In fact, with the listing fees, it’s doing the exact opposite. Every time a precursor is sold, a chunk of that gold is removed from the game. Yes, people are getting wealthier, but on the flip side someone just lost all that gold. The net gain in the game’s economy is negative, since gold was destroyed.

TL;DR: Trading over the TP is a gold sink, not a gold tap, cannot cause inflation.

This would be true if gold sellers couldn’t produce precursors. Do you know how much exotics do we need to trow in the forge to get a precursor? I remember some guilds making experiments, and you need about 80~200 exotics. So we have now a company capable of farming/botting thousands of T6~T5 mats, ectos and the rest of the crafting recipes to make an exotic greatsword, and all they need to do is just throw them out in the forge and make an item that cost 600 gold, is very desirable and high in demand and thrice the valor what they would probably spend buying the necessary items.

Nebilim.5127:

This would be true if gold sellers couldn’t produce precursors. Do you know how much exotics do we need to trow in the forge to get a precursor? I remember some guilds making experiments, and you need about 80~200 exotics. So we have now a company capable of farming/botting thousands of T6~T5 mats, ectos and the rest of the crafting recipes to make an exotic greatsword, and all they need to do is just throw them out in the forge and make an item that cost 600 gold, is very desirable and high in demand and thrice the valor what they would probably spend buying the necessary items.

So what if they can just produce precursors? Are you saying that causes inflation? Did you actually read my post? I feel like I pretty clearly outlined why inflations happen in an MMO.

Dear Ursan, my friend! You hit the jackpot.
I’m, as a Game Content Designer, currently working on a HUGE system redesign for Guild Wars 2.

And I have my outworked idea how a Legendary should be crafted…

And if the player base lacks the skill, what then? They’ll grind for a while, then decide to buy money from RMT Gold sellers. Whoever has no skills for making a Legendary, don’t even deserves it imo.