Guild Wars 2

Ursan.7846, again, I understand that. Which is why I said that supply can not be 100% dominated. The market can, however, be cornered and cornered long enough to manipulte prices for a profit.

Syeria.4812, as I also said, it was a quick look. I did not check all the precusors. Your “example” also happens to pick one of the more currently expensive markets to corner. I think you will find that Kudzu or Colossus would be far less than 8k (closer to the 2-3k range). While I agree that this is a large investment, it is not out of the realm of reality. Add in the fact that any trader wise enough to amass that kind of capital would also be wise enough to pick the best time to spring their trap, and you can quickly see that your 1200g each example is far from typical.

Imperatora.7654:

Ursan.7846, again, I understand that. Which is why I said that supply can not be 100% dominated. The market can, however, be cornered and cornered long enough to manipulte prices for a profit.

Weeeell…

Lets not discount buy orders being filled also. You can put up high sell orders, but since other sellers can still buy orders, a monopoly (even in the short-term) is impossible.

The thing is, market manipulation happens. But as long as the demand is still their, it’s okay, because all the market manipulation is doing is it’s driving towards the “True” value of the item.

What’s not okay is when you have monopolies, who have no competition (Like stupid kitten TWC here) who feel free to drive up prices as they feel, regardless of demand.

And because you have buy orders being fulfilled all the time, a true “monopoly” is impossible. You can put up high prices, but potential buyers will just put a much lower buy order, and wait out until another precursor pops up.

So I guess TL;DR manipulation possible, but manipulating price above and beyond item’s demand through monopolies is tough, if not impossible.

Imperatora.7654:

Syeria.4812, as I also said, it was a quick look. I did not check all the precusors. Your “example” also happens to pick one of the more currently expensive markets to corner. I think you will find that Kudzu or Colossus would be far less than 8k (closer to the 2-3k range). While I agree that this is a large investment, it is not out of the realm of reality. Add in the fact that any trader wise enough to amass that kind of capital would also be wise enough to pick the best time to spring their trap, and you can quickly see that your 1200g each example is far from typical.

My point is that it’s not nearly as simple, reasonable, or lucrative as you make it seem. We know that the volume of trades daily for Dawn and Dusk rivals to the total available supply. That’s just the cost if you assume the manipulator is successful actually selling the product. If you consider the supply available numbers are largely static, it’s fair to assume buying out all of the items currently available and reposting them they would never sell. The only profit would be in buying the transient supply that actually completes trades during the day. There are so many lower risk, higher profit, and easier to make investments such a player could engage in.

Economically it’s ok, but “player satisfaction” wise it seems not to be (at least judging by how many complaint threads you see here and on reddit every day).

Seeing prices increase hundreds of times ones income rate in an afternoon is discouraging, especially when those prices don’t seem to come down nearly as fast. It contributes to burnout and players leaving. The only question that ANet needs to consider is: does a 700g precusror keep more people playing to get it than it does drive people away out of frustration?

I fully agree that if the market will support a price, it is the right price (given sufficient compitition among sellers)… however if player happiness will not support the price then even if it is economically sound, something needs to be done.

@ Syeria, you are discounting the Decoy Effect.

Imperatora.7654:

however if player happiness will not support the price then even if it is economically sound, something needs to be done.

I think we’re in agreement with everything.

Except this.

Just because a player is unhappy, that doesn’t mean they should change anything. Players are selfish, and so they look at everything from a perspective of what benefits them, not what is good for the game as a whole.

Look at the class forums. Each is filled with people who thinks their class is underpowered, the other class is OP, yadda yadda.

Anet obviously had a rarity in mind when they created Legendaries and Precursors. Anet is all about cosmetic grinds (GW1~). They’re going to stick with that, because in the end, they are purely cosmetic. (Unless of course even THEY decide that the rarity isn’t okay.)

It is a very sad day when capital gains is considered abuse. Frankly I find the whole issue of “having” to play the market to not make any real sense.

Take one look at how money works in real life, and you will come to a very quick discovery: capital gains is the #1 source of income for the worlds richest. You may be asking yourself “What is a capital gain”? To be stated simply, a capital gain is the profit made when any investment is sold or traded for a value worth more than what the current owner bought it for. So, say, if I bought 30 acres of land for $100 an acre, and then sold it for $120 an acre, that $20 is considered a capital gain. Now, the important thing to note is that capital gains are the #1 source of income for the worlds richest people in real life. It is simply a principle of economic law: The more money that is invested, the greater gains or losses that can be had from those investments. The income is quick and simple, making it a fast and relatively easy way to make money.

Since this is an economic law, it is absurd to expect these laws to be suspended in any place that uses a free economy.. When people can trade for prices they want, ultimately this will be the best way to make money. It is true in real life, and it will be true in the games.

Now, an important distinction to be made here is the difference between real life and the game: In the game there are no truly “necessary” commodities. In real life, there are things like oil, water, food, electricity, and shelter that are nearly an absolute necessity for nations to function, so when one of these goes out of control it is necessary to reel it in, for the outcome of not doing so could be dire. In this game, however, all commodities are a luxury, and are generated by a system with ultimately infinite supply. Because of this, there is little to no need to “control” the market in the game. Almost everything will always work itself out in one way or another. There can never be a true monopoly on things, since those things can be always spontaneously generated by another party.

So then we have the strange part of this conundrum: Players who want to be rich or own rich things, know how to get rich (by playing the market), but refuse to do so. If the distaste for playing the market is so strong, then it’ll have to be accepted that getting something like a precursor won’t be worth the agony of having to mass trade on the TP. If the desire to have a precursor is so strong, then it should be enough to willingly sacrifice some of their entertainment in order to afford one. This makes me question the validity of these complaints that things are too expensive because people play the market. If you’ve resolved yourself to live by an inferior money making method, then you shouldn’t complain about people who use a superior money making method: it is your choice, after all.

IRL it is understandable why people don’t go with capital gains. It is risky, the stakes are higher, there is more to loose, and figuring out the market is much harder. But in this game, you’ll practically stumble upon a way to make a good capital gain once a week, and you’ll have plenty of gold available to act on this since gold isn’t going into necessities like food, water. and power. This is nice, since with all of the untradeable expenses needed for things like legendary weapons, it can cut down on the grind significantly if you make good predictions on the trading post.

John Smith.4610:

Couple of problems though:
1. Players control that market
2. If we were to step in and do that, we would inflate the economy and the extra value you were getting in real terms would be negligible

This sounds like the same garbage I hear about minimum wage.

The minimum wage is much higher where I live, approaching 40% higher. The prices are NOT 40% higher.

The wealth gap is simply lower, and fewer people are absolutely desperate.

if you peg quest rewards to some % of the price of a charged lodestone, I guarantee the misery index WILL decrease, no matter where the prices go.

Now if you want inflation to stop, you need to put in higher drop rates for in-demand goods, and gold sinks which do not include “the key materials for the vast majority of visually striking skins in this game”

plasmacutter.2709:

John Smith.4610:

Couple of problems though:
1. Players control that market
2. If we were to step in and do that, we would inflate the economy and the extra value you were getting in real terms would be negligible

This sounds like the same garbage I hear about minimum wage.

The minimum wage is much higher where I live, approaching 40% higher. The prices are NOT 40% higher.

The wealth gap is simply lower, and fewer people are absolutely desperate.

if you peg quest rewards to some % of the price of a charged lodestone, I guarantee the misery index WILL decrease, no matter where the prices go.

Now if you want inflation to stop, you need to put in higher drop rates for in-demand goods, and gold sinks which do not include “the key materials for the vast majority of visually striking skins in this game”

Mimimum wage affects is that people are guaranteed to get a fair (mimimum) wage for their actual work. It does not effect the average or above average income -as noone compares it with mimimum wage- and that it does therefor not affect prices is a given.
So I do not understand what you want to say with that point.
We also don’t have any terrible inflation ingame- see the very good discisusion that we had awhile ago in these forums. There is also a post about the necessarity (or lack of) of more gold sinks on this very page.
You don’t fix inflation on the prize of a ffew (luxury and very rare) items, but on the whole market.

plasmacutter.2709:

John Smith.4610:

Couple of problems though:
1. Players control that market
2. If we were to step in and do that, we would inflate the economy and the extra value you were getting in real terms would be negligible

This sounds like the same garbage I hear about minimum wage.

The minimum wage is much higher where I live, approaching 40% higher. The prices are NOT 40% higher.

The wealth gap is simply lower, and fewer people are absolutely desperate.

if you peg quest rewards to some % of the price of a charged lodestone, I guarantee the misery index WILL decrease, no matter where the prices go.

Now if you want inflation to stop, you need to put in higher drop rates for in-demand goods, and gold sinks which do not include “the key materials for the vast majority of visually striking skins in this game”

As another poster noted, a 40% increase in minimum wage is not a 40% increase in income. It’s an extremely small increase in average wage, and an even smaller increase in median wage.

It also does absolutely nothing to the wealth gap, and doesn’t make any meaningful change in income disparity.

The Law of Averages

GG

I made a profit on The Legend. It wasn’t necessarily intentional. I purchased it for 480g. Then I seen tonnes of people have them and started to wonder if I really wanted it. Then I seen the listing price at 690g. Then I found all these cool weapons that were less commonly used and what I wanted from a legendary above all else was a unique look. So I listed my precursor for 640g and it took about an hour to sell. After 96 gold in tax I had a profit of 64gold. Nothing to write home about. Flipping the TP seems to be better on low level stuff like materials in bulk, but its time consuming and I prefer to play the game.

John Smith.4610:

Couple of problems though:
1. Players control that market
2. If we were to step in and do that, we would inflate the economy and the extra value you were getting in real terms would be negligible

John Smith is right – also note that any false step would just collapse anyways as people just bought Gems > gold, but no one used gold to buy gems. HOWEVER if they worked on the Gem store (more items, cheaper consumables as they’re far too expensive atm, etc… I’ve already made detailed posts one what I would think fix it) – they create something that would not only create a more fair gem to gold trade, but a better gold sink as well – thus better value without inflating the economy. The quaggan backpack alone bumped the Gem market by 30% with the initial purchase and has since settled over 10% higher… and I think it can support much much more… people just need a reason to buy stuff off the gem store.

I’m just saying, I made this topic 3 months ago and only 1 of the 2 issues got fixed. The gold sellers really did get a beating put to them but the entire issue on the market manipulators never really got addressed. No idea how any of that could be looked into, I just feel like it’s a problem when someone takes a small market, buys everything, then re-lists it for double the price. That just doesn’t seem like something that should happen.

What market manipulators?

http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/29178

Does this graph scream of market manipulators buying out supplies and re-listing them for a higher price?(623 G sell listing on Feb 1st, 588 G sell listing, now, more than 3 months later)

And no, sharp rises in price does not mean “manipulators.”

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/bltc/what-did-you-guys-do-to-dill/first#post2081077

in 1 day the price of the lover and spark went up 400 gold. There were 3, all bought by 1 guy, all relisted again for significantly higher. That’s market manipulation.

randomfightfan.4091:

in 1 day the price of the lover and spark went up 400 gold. There were 3, all bought by 1 guy, all relisted again for significantly higher. That’s market manipulation.

That’s interesting. How did you find out they were all bought by one guy who did this? And that they were bought and relisted. I know you must have a way to determine this as otherwise your remark is simply idle speculation.

randomfightfan.4091:

in 1 day the price of the lover and spark went up 400 gold. There were 3, all bought by 1 guy, all relisted again for significantly higher. That’s market manipulation.

I just provided evidence why what you observe (sudden spike in prices) does not necessarily mean “manipulation.” (John Smith’s own words.)

Now why don’t you provide proof that what you observe most definitely mean “manipulation?”

Ursan.7846:

randomfightfan.4091:

in 1 day the price of the lover and spark went up 400 gold. There were 3, all bought by 1 guy, all relisted again for significantly higher. That’s market manipulation.

I just provided evidence why what you observe (sudden spike in prices) does not necessarily mean “manipulation.” (John Smith’s own words.)

Now why don’t you provide proof that what you observe most definitely mean “manipulation?”

I’ll use John Smith’s own words as well then to answer. Someone said that the precursor prices weren’t manipulated, they went up 400g within 24 hours due to inflation. This was John’s response.

John Smith.4610:

Within the last hour I’ve specifically said that you’re mistaking inflation for what is not inflation. Precursor prices aren’t changing due to inflation.

If that’s not him agreeing that it was manipulated then I don’t know what is. And for proof that it was manipulated? There were 3 lovers on the tp at the start of the day at around 300g. When I looked again 6 hours later, there were 3 lovers on the tp for 700g. That’s all that there was available.

I bought gold in World of Warcraft. I’m not ashamed to say it. Blizzard honestly deserved it for Mists of Pandaria.

I’m just glad I can get gold through more clean dealings in Guild Wars. It lets me wash my hands of black markets.

John, I do hope that the money from Gem Store purchases goes to ArenaNet and not NCSoft. I Know you can’t say it publically, but NCSoft are odd bedfellows, certainly not ideal.

randomfightfan.4091:

I’ll use John Smith’s own words as well then to answer. Someone said that the precursor prices weren’t manipulated, they went up 400g within 24 hours due to inflation. This was John’s response.

John Smith.4610:

Within the last hour I’ve specifically said that you’re mistaking inflation for what is not inflation. Precursor prices aren’t changing due to inflation.

If that’s not him agreeing that it was manipulated then I don’t know what is. And for proof that it was manipulated? There were 3 lovers on the tp at the start of the day at around 300g. When I looked again 6 hours later, there were 3 lovers on the tp for 700g. That’s all that there was available.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. “John Smith said that price increase is not due to monetary inflation. He obviously is agreeing it was manipulated.”

Are you seriously that dense? Have you considered natural rise in prices due to low sell-orders being bought out by multiple buyers, leaving a higher sell-order behind? (Ie. there is a sell order of 400, 500, 600, and 700G. 3 different buyers buy the 400/500/600 sell orders within an hour before any new sell-listings can be posted, and thus the sell orders listed seems to have risen.) Why is this possible? Look at John Smith’s post I quoted with respect to Dill. Exact same situation, and yet he confirms that it’s not caused by manipulation. (And it certainly isn’t caused by inflation either.)

Here’s some logic for you. In a set, when someone says not B, in order to prove A you have to prove that the set only consists of A and B.

I just gave you C, another reason why prices can increase (natural market forces. In this case it being sold faster than it being listed). Thus by contradiction, your assumption that the set only consists of A (manipulation) and B (monetary inflation) is wrong, and hence your conclusion that is is A for sure because it’s not B is wrong.

^ All he said was that it isn’t inflation. The price went up because a precursor was bought, meaning the next lowest sale offer is the new “price”. Hence, that wasn’t inflation. Not inflation=/= market manipulation.

If there’s a lowball item out there, then when it gets bought price spikes because everyone goes off the lowest rather than the reasonable median.
ex. rubber ducky of doom sales listings: 400g, 700g, 710g, 750g, 800g.
400g is bought, now the sales price is 700g. That’s not inflation, and not necessarily manipulation.

aaaand everyone beat me to it because I was playing and typing in between.

Sorry you 2 weren’t able to understand what I wrote. I thought it was pretty obvious but I guess I’ll further simplify it. For the course of that month, there were 3 lovers. All 3 were within 20g of one another. There was no 400-700. 1 was sold, another was put back onto the market for about 10s less. There are only 3 on the market total. You can easily see this by looking at all 3 just sitting there. One minute, they’re all sitting pretty on the tp. A few minutes later, they’re all gone, poof, 3 lovers, gone. A few hours later, 3 new lovers show up on the tp. All for 400g higher than before, all within 20g of each other.

Basic logic is logical. They were flipped by someone who bought too much gold, thus, manipulating the market.

randomfightfan.4091:

Sorry you 2 weren’t able to understand what I wrote. I thought it was pretty obvious but I guess I’ll further simplify it. For the course of that month, there were 3 lovers. All 3 were within 20g of one another. There was no 400-700. 1 was sold, another was put back onto the market for about 10s less. There are only 3 on the market total. You can easily see this by looking at all 3 just sitting there. One minute, they’re all sitting pretty on the tp. A few minutes later, they’re all gone, poof, 3 lovers, gone. A few hours later, 3 new lovers show up on the tp. All for 400g higher than before, all within 20g of each other.

Basic logic is logical. They were flipped by someone who bought too much gold, thus, manipulating the market.

You keep on using the word “Logic.” I do not think you know what it means. (In this case, the symptoms you observe can also possibly be caused by various other methods. You have no proof that one user bought out all 3, and the same user re-listed all 3. Hence you cannot prove absolutely that manipulation is the cause of this.)

I fully understand what you wrote. What I’m telling you is that you cannot pin down what you observed to one cause so absolutely, without further concrete proof.

Well when a supply completely depletes, it’s up to whoever reintroduces it to decide the price. So if someone sees there are no lovers up for sale, it’d only make sense to jump on that opportunity. Besides, undercutting yourself doesn’t make sense, if you look at it logically, nor is listing all of them at once if the speed of sales on an item is so low.

Generally if that were to happen the seller would go off the buy listing as a starting point. Exceeding those by such a large margin is logically (enjoyed throwing that in there) asking to be undercut and have your listing waste away.

People toast toast!

Navzar.2938:

Well when a supply completely depletes, it’s up to whoever reintroduces it to decide the price. So if someone sees there are no lovers up for sale, it’d only make sense to jump on that opportunity. Besides, undercutting yourself doesn’t make sense, if you look at it logically, nor is listing all of them at once if the speed of sales on an item is so low.

If I’m going to sell something pricey, and I have multiple (usually lodestones), I’ll space them out. I’ll put a few at the lowest price and a few at the price a little further down the line for a few reasons.

1. The next person will only see a small number at the front and be less likely to undercut me. If you looted a lover and saw 3 were for sale, would you match the price and be 4th in line or under cut it by 1c? You would be less likely to do so if there was only 1 at that price.

2. It’s always a nice surprise to have some money from the tp when you aren’t expecting it.

3. I’m not manipulating the market, I’m just putting my items in line with where the lodes were at a short while ago. This potentially gives me a few extra silver.

4. It gives the illusion that there are more people involved in the market. When you see 250 of an item (buy or sell orders), you think 1 guy just unloaded on the tp. If you see 5 sets of 50, you think there’s a line of people interested in this product and now you may think it’s a solid time to invest in that market.

“speed of sales on an item is so low” it is low b/c of how expensive it is. It was still sought after by anyone looking to make the dreamer (and believe me, there were lots of us. Pretty much every thief and ranger in the game wants it (whether they want to admit it or not)). The person manipulating the market just infuriated people trying for the legendaries b/c it means they’d have to farm for an extra 3 months minimum just for the precursor. With the forever inflating prices on the t6 mats and the potential of the precursor’s getting flipped again, relying on a stable market to get a legendary just isn’t in the cards for a large amount of gamers.

randomfightfan.4091:

If that’s not him agreeing that it was manipulated then I don’t know what is. And for proof that it was manipulated? There were 3 lovers on the tp at the start of the day at around 300g. When I looked again 6 hours later, there were 3 lovers on the tp for 700g. That’s all that there was available.

Stop trading post flipping! I want cheap stuff!

I don’t see anything wrong with flipping. If you have the money to blow on buying the items and then even more gold to relist them at a much higher price above buy offers then go right ahead. You are just asking to get undercut by somebody with a more reasonable selling price and your items will just sit there unsold. Speculation is just that, speculation. It’s a risky business with a high payoff if it works, otherwise you are sitting on unsold merchandise and the TP was able to siphon off some of your gold in the process.

kokocabana.8153:

I don’t see anything wrong with flipping. If you have the money to blow on buying the items and then even more gold to relist them at a much higher price above buy offers then go right ahead. You are just asking to get undercut by somebody with a more reasonable selling price and your items will just sit there unsold. Speculation is just that, speculation. It’s a risky business with a high payoff if it works, otherwise you are sitting on unsold merchandise and the TP was able to siphon off some of your gold in the process.

that would be fine if there was a high enough supply of precursors to do so. Flipping those is nearly without risk since there’s just not enough getting put back in. As of right now the marker is just too easy to break if 1 guy with too much gold gets in there and ruins it for everybody else. I know about half a dozen people who just quit the game when they saw that happen. They knew right there that they wouldn’t be able to finish their legendary with the year so they just left. Sounds like a lose-lose to me.

wtf is the issue here?
The cheapest ones got bought out thats all the market data shows…the OP appears to be QQing that someone bought the cheapest item, and left the more expensive ones up.

the supply: 7-9 vs demand: 1500+ is what keeps prices high…..

If people are quitting the game just because they can’t shoot rainbow unicorns, then maybe GW2 isn’t for them.

pixieish.9627:

If people are quitting the game just because they can’t shoot rainbow unicorns, then maybe GW2 isn’t for them.

All i want in my heart of hearts is to fire rainbow unicorns across the flaming bridge of Uumagarn.

Don’t see the problem here, even if the items where bought and relisted whats wrong with that? Its an open marketplace, are you advocating controlling what items are sold for and if so whats the point of the marketplace?

If you had a fixed maximum price for an item in high demand the only thing it would mean is that youd have 2000+ buy orders served in a FIFO order and you wouldnt be able to buy your precursors in two years no matter how much money you farmed.

Even if you were ok with that it would only mean that gold farmer X would put in a large number of buy orders and sell it on the side instead.

Instead of complaining of all the unfairness I would suggest you contributed with a feasible option to solve the problem you are experiencing.

aeneq.1760:

Don’t see the problem here, even if the items where bought and relisted whats wrong with that? Its an open marketplace, are you advocating controlling what items are sold for and if so whats the point of the marketplace?

If you had a fixed maximum price for an item in high demand the only thing it would mean is that youd have 2000+ buy orders served in a FIFO order and you wouldnt be able to buy your precursors in two years no matter how much money you farmed.

Even if you were ok with that it would only mean that gold farmer X would put in a large number of buy orders and sell it on the side instead.

Instead of complaining of all the unfairness I would suggest you contributed with a feasible option to solve the problem you are experiencing.

The answer really is simple, get more precursors on the market so they can’t all be flipped but a few guys with way too much gold.

I got a real question (though it might seem like trolling to some) … why even let these threads flourish? It’s not like any of the people that start them want to be educated on why they are wrong.

I think the people are concerned about market manipulation. There is a general sense that TP flippers control the price of goods and frequently take advantage of people who don’t.

If you shut down threads like this, then the outcry would become deafening. Better to shine a light on it.

In my opinion, it doesn’t help that people simply state “that’s not inflation” without actually providing a sense of how to measure inflation in the game economy. For example, while the rising price of luxury goods is not indicative of inflationary pressure, the fact that level 80 blues trade a vendor price is not indicative of stability.

But that’s the thing … are people so daft they don’t get that the market is there to be manipulated in the first place? For example., you mention flippers ‘taking advantage’ of people. That’s REALLY disingenuous … the people being ‘taken advantage’ of are WILLFULLY selling their loot at lower prices. Ignorance is not a reason to limit market activity.

Let’s be frank … what is the purpose of the market if you aren’t allowed to get the highest price for goods you sell or the lowest price for the goods you buy? Sounds what some people here need is a big slap to the face with some reality and honesty. If people think they are being manipulated by people on the market, they have a CHOICE to not use it and farm their own gear or they can learn to be competitive on the market as well. It’s nonsense to shine a light on something that is done by design.

It’s never about persuading those that are already convinced about what they believe in, it’s about providing a counter argument to those that haven’t so that they can see both sides and decide for themselves.

randomfightfan.4091:

…

The answer really is simple, get more precursors on the market so they can’t all be flipped but a few guys with way too much gold.

But what you are saying here is that things should never be allowed to be rare? The rest of the mats are simple farming and not very hard to get, something in the legendary recipe needs to be very rare otherwise there is no point.

IMO I don’t think your concern can or should be addressed by increasing drop rate

Obtena.7952:

But that’s the thing … are people so daft they don’t get that the market is there to be manipulated in the first place? For example., you mention flippers ‘taking advantage’ of people. That’s REALLY disingenuous … the people being ‘taken advantage’ of are WILLFULLY selling their loot at lower prices. Ignorance is not a reason to limit market activity.

Let’s be frank … what is the purpose of the market if you aren’t allowed to get the highest price for goods you sell or the lowest price for the goods you buy? Sounds what some people here need is a big slap to the face with some reality and honesty. If people think they are being manipulated by people on the market, they have a CHOICE to not use it and farm their own gear or they can learn to be competitive on the market as well. It’s nonsense to shine a light on something that is done by design.

Can I clap?

I never believed legendaries could be controlled either. Until I started placing bids on the Lover, where this whole discussion started. Now, don’t get me wrong, I could buy that bow twice if I wanted to, but I’m not willing to pay more than a certain amount.

What I saw from bidding on that bow over the last 5 days is that this market is (i) indeed appears to be heavily affected by player “control” (this control includes, but is not limited to, individual buyers being taken on a “leash” to the top, after which the leash is quickly dropped) and (ii) the droprate is insanely low. You can see this clearly when, during primetime evenings such as Saturday (in which everyone is farming crazy hours with 300 to 400 percent magic find), a bid which is practically 10g from the lowest seller (around 600g) is simply not filled.

Anyway, I’ve waited long enough with buying this bow, I can wait a while longer still. But I would highly encourage that the droprate of this bow be increased, or, at the very least, looked into.

I seriously doubt anyone is actively farming mobs/chest with the hope of getting a precursor, for gold or rares/exotics to throw in the MF maybe but not for the PC as a mob drop.

manipulation market , naaaa

edit: my bid on the lover was filled tonight for 520g. Yai! I have the dreamer now Good luck to the OP on getting his. Waiting it out without aggressively bidding saved me 90g.

perche.3215:

manipulation market , naaaa

Are you implying that offering more for an item is bad? Is are you just being sarcastic?

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

I don’t see why someone wanting to buy at a higher price than other people is bad. It’s not bad if you are selling. If you want to take advantage of the market, you have to be competitive.

perche.3215:

manipulation market , naaaa

Thats nothing, check this out going back to may 30th http://www.gw2spidy.com/item/36342

Smart economics or market manipulation is just a matter of perspective though

perche.3215:

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

Pure smart business if you ask me.

perche.3215:

bad is make a offer of 25000 items at 89c, when the previous offer is 81c and force to people to buy at 90+, same thing happen with iron , ore, iron ore etc.

pure manipulation.

He’s offering to BUY 25,000 @ 89c. Sellers win. Flippers lose. That’s what I call a “Win – Win”. Plus it’s costing him (assuming one person) 200+g to do something like that.

You are forgetting that “playing the market” is a form of PvP with profit as the way to keep score. I dare say most players buy immediately and sell immediately or at worse over/under cut by a few coppers for one of something and they don’t even notice things like this.