Guild Wars 2

The inflation rate in the Trading Post is just reaching ungodly levels, that’s all. We need an economist to fix the economy!

MrRuin.9740:

I’m curious about the argument people are making about “knowing your class and how to play”. Forget crafting and look at the other methods of ‘power-leveling’ in GW2. What exactly does running the champ train in Queensdale teach about your class, besides how to wp around quickly and press 1? What does a WvW karma train teach you about your class mechanics, besides how important it is to tag things for credit? What does most open world content teach you, since most of it is facerolled?
Its an empty argument IMO. None of the quicker ways to level teach you anything about mechanics, crafting included.

Even at “end game” what does doing dungeons teach you about playing your class, 99% of it involves

- run past all mobs
- stand on this ledge where mobs can’t hurt you but you can hurt them
- stack here and face tank boss, boss continually changes targets and no one is really at risk of dying
- everyone stack reflect

in all honesty, no one really needs to know how to “play their class” they just need to follow someone that know’s how to play.

Protoavis.9107:

MrRuin.9740:

I’m curious about the argument people are making about “knowing your class and how to play”. Forget crafting and look at the other methods of ‘power-leveling’ in GW2. What exactly does running the champ train in Queensdale teach about your class, besides how to wp around quickly and press 1? What does a WvW karma train teach you about your class mechanics, besides how important it is to tag things for credit? What does most open world content teach you, since most of it is facerolled?
Its an empty argument IMO. None of the quicker ways to level teach you anything about mechanics, crafting included.

Even at “end game” what does doing dungeons teach you about playing your class, 99% of it involves

- run past all mobs
- stand on this ledge where mobs can’t hurt you but you can hurt them
- stack here and face tank boss, boss continually changes targets and no one is really at risk of dying
- everyone stack reflect

in all honesty, no one really needs to know how to “play their class” they just need to follow someone that know’s how to play.

And how does that happen if everyone follows your example and no one really learns how to play, thereby creating the effect where no one knows how to play well enough to create effective leaders for all these trains I keep hearing about?

Or are you assuming that the only people that really need to learn how to play are the people who already know how to play and therefore no one else should even bother attempting to learn how to play because there is no point?

Both situations are stupid and ineffective at fostering a growing community.

No one really needs to know how to play now though. All end game content outside of fractals boils down to follow the zerg (both in pve and wvw which both just come down to fast exp/karma/loot) or go full zerk and stack on the boss or an area the boss can’t reach, neither of which have anything to do with “know how to play your class” or require any significant skill….all that’s required is an ability to notice AI behaviour and how to best approach it, which is something a player has or doesn’t.

The only time knowing how to play your class is a requirement is pvp…where you’re lvl 80 by default and don’t get to learn your class by grind..err..leveling it up.

players create the tp prices, the whole supply/demand thing.

do something else, sneezing gives you exp

Arc DLad.2194:

players create the tp prices, the whole supply/demand thing.

do something else, sneezing gives you exp

Anet control the amount of gold that enters the system which has a direct influence on inflation. More gold floating around in the system, the higher the price goes .

Anet also to an extent control the demand for crafting mats (ie we all know items like iron ore went from a steady 10c, steady as it was around 7c to 10c pretty much since release, to 1s30c as the direct result of ascended crafting). Anet didn’t increase supply but they did increase demand.

Funny, the last two games I played you got 0 XP towards general leveling through crafting.

I’m increasingly convinced that there’s NOTHING that MMO players won’t complain about.

Kinda funny up until now, I never realised that people actually do this. I’ve leveled two chars from 70 to 80 via crafting though myself, as leveling does get a little repetitive after a couple of chars.

I don’t craft alot, but you do get XP from Crafting even when you’re 80, right? Then the only issue is that it has become more expensive, not that it isn’t possible to to craft 0-80.

So you can still level the way you like, it’s just (alot) more expensive. I think shortcuts should have a disadvantage (and be it gold aka time is money). Apart from that IMO it is also good that lower tier mats have risen in price now/ become more relevant.

I can understand it’s annoying, but games change and develop by time.

This whole argument over whether or not a player should be able to craft to level cap or not misses a simple point.

ANet intentionally made it possible to do so. This was no mistake that later got fixed. Then they intentionally changed it.

It makes complete sense to ask them, “Why?”

MrRuin.9740:

What exactly does running the champ train in Queensdale teach about your class, besides how to wp around quickly and press 1?
Its an empty argument IMO. None of the quicker ways to level teach you anything about mechanics, crafting included.

The train is a lot more fun if you press 2-0 also, plus it teaches you how to play your class…you should try it!

Anet never intended that a player could reach max level with crafting alone. However due to their problems with the crafting system and not putting a thought to that at the beginning, players could reach max level just doing that. With Anet releasing and nerfing content on a quick and short notice without having it tested correctly and not spending a minute to think about the other issues that might or might not cause, we ending up with a game that has unfortunately it’s economy outbursts. To get those things back on track Anet has to change a lot of stuff in the game, but crafting and getting you to 80 fastest and cheapest way isn’t one of them. Different discussion topic.

On the other note I level’d my 6 characters to 80 in 3 weeks. All of them not just one. It’s pretty simple to get to max level very fast without any efforts. Might want to try that.

Ooh boohoo, you lost your luxery position of cheap leveling

Togashi Jack.9531:

I don’t know, this might be a foreign concept for some people but you might want to consider leveling to 80 by a means that is not exclusively crafting, such as… well… playing the game?

Come back here when you leveled 5+ characters. (I did. I used crafting for 6 characters, 20-80 levels, just because this game doesn’t have near enough content to level up if you already have completed it a couple of times.
Why don’t I play the game? Cause I am burned out on PvE content and WvW as an uplevel means death if you are not a zergling.

Seriously though, they need to nerf the amount of grinding/farming in this game. It’s ridiculous.

Illogical.6218:

Ooh boohoo, you lost your luxury position of easy leveling

FTFY.

slurpey.6014:

Anet never intended that a player could reach max level with crafting alone. However due to their problems with the crafting system and not putting a thought to that at the beginning, players could reach max level just doing that. With Anet releasing and nerfing content on a quick and short notice without having it tested correctly and not spending a minute to think about the other issues that might or might not cause, we ending up with a game that has unfortunately it’s economy outbursts. To get those things back on track Anet has to change a lot of stuff in the game, but crafting and getting you to 80 fastest and cheapest way isn’t one of them. Different discussion topic.

On the other note I level’d my 6 characters to 80 in 3 weeks. All of them not just one. It’s pretty simple to get to max level very fast without any efforts. Might want to try that.

Look up on pg1, the devs said hardcore crafter can level to 80 without killing a single mob. And I believe it’s intentional for those that chose to do so. Crafting to 80 is fast but not cheap. Certainly I can earn more gold by doing other things than leveling traditionally.

Togashi Jack.9531:

I don’t know, this might be a foreign concept for some people but you might want to consider leveling to 80 by a means that is not exclusively crafting, such as… well… playing the game?

Yeah, do the same copy paste quests over and over again! Fun!

Master of Timespace.2548:

Togashi Jack.9531:

I don’t know, this might be a foreign concept for some people but you might want to consider leveling to 80 by a means that is not exclusively crafting, such as… well… playing the game?

Yeah, do the same copy paste quests over and over again! Fun!

I know really.

DomDeuce.7896:

…we were promised…

There’s your first problem.

Much like they were creating a game without grind, or that new legendary weapons would be out this year, or Colin Johanson: “Everyone, including casual gamers, by level 80 should have the best statistical loot in the game." You get the picture.

If you have expectations you will only be disappointed.

You start at level 1.

+20exp from exp scroll= Level 21

1-400 on 8 crafts is +56 levels = level 77

4 dungeon runs to do the rest.

You can get to level 80 in a day.

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Actually, the phrase “Play how you want” is not meant to be interpreted as “Go sit in a corner and craft your way to max level.”

People have always had the option to level via open world PvE, switching chars at the end of a dungeon run, karma training in WvW, doing personal story, crafting, etc.
The other options are still as viable as they used to, but crafting is not.

So “go sit in a corner and craft your way to max level”, which requires gold/mats is not supposed to happen, but doing nothing but a Living Story event -> Crown Pavillion/Invasions/Labyrinth/Toxicwhatever to go from 1 to 80 is. (that’s what I do, btw)

you really should be playing your character in open world so that you know what you are doing when you actually get to level 80 and start doing end game content. That way you don’t get kicked out of a Fractal or High Level Dungeon for being a noob.

So you are basically saying that all the terrible pugs we all see are noobs because they didn’t complete enough hearts. Interesting.

Vorch.2985:

You start at level 1.

+20exp from exp scroll= Level 21

1-400 on 8 crafts is +56 levels = level 77

4 dungeon runs to do the rest.

You can get to level 80 in a day.

You forgot that the crafts cost ~20g each… 160g… no ty.

Anet made a decision to make crafting more expensive across the board. They have also made a general decision to inflate the economy by adding a whole bunch of new sources of gold. (Mostly champ bags)

All we can do is deal with it.

Let me Clarify my OP. For those who have made a lot of assumptions. I’ll do this as simple as possible.

—On Playing Content—

1) I have over 8k (with a 4 month break) Achievement points. This places me in the 90th percentile of the game. Meaning, I’ve been around the block a few times as far as play the content goes.

2) I have every profession I want to 80. That’s 7, 80’s [2 are Engi’s]. They are all geared in Exotics. My main 5 all have 1 or 2 Asc Amulets, and more.

What do those first two points mean: I know how to play my classes and I have played the content…to death. I play very efficiently. I know exactly what I’m going to do for the hour or two I play when I can.

—On the Product we play—

1) We were told by ArenaNet in the beginning we could level to 80 if that’s what we want to do. That is currently bugged. Max level is 65 with a current cost [gw2crafts.net @ posting] of 515g.

2) This 515g will increase dramatically when the other 5 recipes get their Ascended tier introduced.

This is bugged even if a player was willing to spend 515g they could not reach level 80, From Crafting. We have not had any word from ArenaNet on when they plan to fix this bug. For those who argue it’s not a bug, the point is it’s a broken product until they introduce 400-500 for the last 5 crafts, and they have not.

—On investing in GW2 and ArenaNet—

1) I stated I buy gems every month. I personally feel this game is worth me paying $20 a month too [and more sometimes]. I dropped $15 a month for WoW and Swtor which I feel are inferior games to this one [And if you saw Blizzcon this last weekend they revamped their quests to GW2 style].

I do not convert Gems to gold (bad investment anyways). I use it to buy seasonal items, skins, Bag slots for all my 80’s , Unbreakable gathering tools and More Character Slots. The last of which I have no desire to do anymore because it’s a bad product line. And the other items will decrease as I have no new characters to buy them for.

—On Ascended Tier Mats—
1) We were told before the release there was going to be a 7th tier of tradable mats for those with the capability to trade them, so they could have their own market.

This has not happened. There are only 2 mats that are tradable. That is far from a market and is very disappointing. The end product is not even sellable. I would love to read the philosophy on this from someone.

—On Gold in General—
1)A huge majority of players have less then 111g [the current cost from 1-400 all crafts].

I do not take the small section of fans on these forums or other mediums as the whole. I believe ArenaNet should re-allow leveling to gain 10 levels from each craft from 1-400. 111g is no small drop in the bucket, and it’ll just increase especially if the new ascended recipes eat up low tier mats.

I’m sure we can all mostly agree 111g+ is no small price to pay for a level 80 who still needs to be geared out.

Upham.6137:

So you are basically saying that all the terrible pugs we all see are noobs because they didn’t complete enough hearts. Interesting.

Genius, now I know what to tell pugs who dies at lupi or can’t do trash runs. Basically they have to do more hearts, maybe some DEs as well.

MrRuin.9740:

I’m curious about the argument people are making about “knowing your class and how to play”. Forget crafting and look at the other methods of ‘power-leveling’ in GW2. What exactly does running the champ train in Queensdale teach about your class, besides how to wp around quickly and press 1? What does a WvW karma train teach you about your class mechanics, besides how important it is to tag things for credit? What does most open world content teach you, since most of it is facerolled?
Its an empty argument IMO. None of the quicker ways to level teach you anything about mechanics, crafting included.

At the very least the trains will teach you what your 1-5 skills do and likely which utility skills increase speed. In crafting you have no idea about anything except 1 is auto attack.

ATMAvatar.5749:

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

Then can you honestly expect that player to know the first thing about how to actually play their chosen class when they get their first character or for that matter ANY character to level 80, and proceed to leave the confines of the crafting district in whatever their starting city was and attempt to join a Fractals Run or whatever the End Game Content of choice that they choose to undertake happens to be?

Why not? The professions aren’t that hard to get a basic handle on, and story dungeons/the early levels of fractals are cake. You can’t go 15 minutes in LA without a guild invite, so they can even cut their teeth with guildmates.

It really depends on how good you are at games. It took me a while to get my footing with new classes because it takes me a while to experiment with different builds and skill setups until I find the ones which suit my style.

Sirendor.1394:

Vorch.2985:

You start at level 1.

+20exp from exp scroll= Level 21

1-400 on 8 crafts is +56 levels = level 77

4 dungeon runs to do the rest.

You can get to level 80 in a day.

You forgot that the crafts cost ~20g each… 160g… no ty.

They don’t. It’s 1.81 up to 40 gold. You have to spend around 109 to get all professions to 400 at the current rate. Getting it from 400 – 500 is where it hurts lol. Prices vary from 141 – 146+ gold. However for some people money is not an issue and they like to go that route.

^^ Going by the presumptions that it’s actually hard to learn those. It is not. A competent player who mastered one class will have no trouble adapting to a new one. If it takes you 20hrs+ to level in the open world, a skilled player will have mastered that class in just 10hrs way ahead of you who may not even have all the skills and traits at that point.

DomDeuce.7896:

—On Ascended Tier Mats—
1) We were told before the release there was going to be a 7th tier of tradable mats for those with the capability to trade them, so they could have their own market.

This has not happened. There are only 2 mats that are tradable. That is far from a market and is very disappointing. The end product is not even sellable. I would love to read the philosophy on this from someone.

Any idea when that statement was made? I remember them talking about refining Tier 7 materials in August , but I don’t see anything in there specifically about what can and cannot be traded.

As for what is currently tradeable, a quick check on “Crafting Materials→Ascended” on the Trading Post shows me 22 items. Most of those are ascended inscriptions, but it also includes Deldrimor Steel, Elonian Leather, and Spiritwood Planks. (It also lists Xunlai Electrum and Damask, neither of which are obtainable, and Thermocatalytic Reagents, which are totally pointless to resell. So, make that 19 materials.)

I realize only three (five eventually, counting Electrum and Damask) are depositable crafting materials, but they’re pretty valuable on the market, as are the inscriptions.

What is there to learn? Combat is incredibly shallow and you only get to use a small handful of skills at any one time. Question about traits? Pop open one of the many guides floating around and you’ll be on your way in 5 minutes.

I leveled through each area of the game once. I don’t need to do it again.

Redenaz.8631:

Any idea when that statement was made? I remember them talking about refining Tier 7 materials in August , but I don’t see anything in there specifically about what can and cannot be traded.

It was touched on here https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

But I’m sure it was deeper. Even though, When they use the word Economy. It’s basically what I mean by Market. 2-5 items does not make an Economy [IMO].

way too many posts to respond to now, this ballooned quickly.

—you can still craft to level 80 without ever leaving the initial city.

— At launch this was expensive and difficult to do.

— for a more than 6 months this because a lot easier to do.

— It has now come full circle to what it was like at launch to craft your way to 80.

— There was a rumor recently that you’d be able to get to level 80 PvE in sPVP. I’ll see if I can find the source.

Point is there are many way to get to level 80. If you want to craft to 80, you can. The current TP market is going to make that expensive for you. So it becomes a question of time verse money.

edit: I tired to make my point numbers 1-4 for example and it made them all number 1’s. Thought that was odd.

DomDeuce.7896:

Redenaz.8631:

Any idea when that statement was made? I remember them talking about refining Tier 7 materials in August , but I don’t see anything in there specifically about what can and cannot be traded.

It was touched on here https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/looking-ahead-guild-wars-2-in-2013/

But I’m sure it was deeper. Even though, When they use the word Economy. It’s basically what I mean by Market. 2-5 items does not make an Economy [IMO].

Hm, yes, I see where that could be interpreted to suggest something broader than what we have.

Actually, since you can start refining t7 materials at 450, that entire paragraph in the “Looking ahead article” seems badly-written. At 500, you can start crafting ascended inscriptions, so I suppose that’s what they meant (given that there are quite a few more of those,) but it’s still phrased terribly. I think we got what they intended, in the end, but not quite what that paragraph suggested. Hrm.

Thanks for giving me a good laugh with this thread. I am thankful that they nerfed crafting exp. Less lvl 80s with no idea how to play.

Request instant 80 sold in gem store, you will get a quicker response.

Anet announced prices would go up with the ascended weapons release. Go out and farm materials. The fact materials are so pricey = why peeps have more money and have to spend more money for the same gear that was cheaper when materials were cheaper.

Why do you think, for the longest time, materials were so cheap? Part of the reason was that initial Bot wave that lasted for many months drove prices in to the ground. The lack of forsight on what this would do to the economy is exactly why people got Exotics faster than Anet thought would happen. They didn’t factor in the cheap materials from the massive amount of bots farming the game.

Everything is balanced. If prices to craft is higher, selling materials earns you more money or farming them will cost you very little (Vendor Mats you still need) to craft.

I don’t see the issue.

Leveling is so easy. It takes ~40 hours to level to 80. I just can’t see that as worth complaining about.

Craft, explore, dungeon runs, experience scrolls, etc. No one is forcing you to level by crafting if you don’t want to.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

Leveling is so easy. It takes ~40 hours to level to 80. I just can’t see that as worth complaining about.

Craft, explore, dungeon runs, experience scrolls, etc. No one is forcing you to level by crafting if you don’t want to.

I’ve played through and completed every zone. Why should I have to do that more than once?

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

As for your assertion that the Classes aren’t all that hard to get a basic handle on. Sure, maybe not. That doesn’t change the fact that if you want an advanced knowledge of how the class works on an indepth level, your going to need to level it from the ground up, in a combat friendly environment. Preferably against both Player and A.I. opponents. Theory alone will not suffice. Nor will simply a few weeks of practice.

You don’t really have a point here, since the people that are going to be crafting 1-80 are most likely those that already have one or several 80s and just want to get another class up to 80.

They’re already going to have a good understanding of all the combat mechanics (because they’re really not that class specific).

And no, forcing someone to kill easy pve mobs in the open world to death for 80 levels is not going to teach them specific knowledge about their class, it’s just going to teach them basic combat mechanics WHICH THEY ALREADY KNOW.

Redball.7236:

An Siorai Tharian.4516:

As for your assertion that the Classes aren’t all that hard to get a basic handle on. Sure, maybe not. That doesn’t change the fact that if you want an advanced knowledge of how the class works on an indepth level, your going to need to level it from the ground up, in a combat friendly environment. Preferably against both Player and A.I. opponents. Theory alone will not suffice. Nor will simply a few weeks of practice.

You don’t really have a point here, since the people that are going to be crafting 1-80 are most likely those that already have one or several 80s and just want to get another class up to 80.

They’re already going to have a good understanding of all the combat mechanics (because they’re really not that class specific).

And no, forcing someone to kill easy pve mobs in the open world to death for 80 levels is not going to teach them specific knowledge about their class, it’s just going to teach them basic combat mechanics WHICH THEY ALREADY KNOW.

I agree. Level 1-10 learns me everything I need to know about my class. Traits are something that is usually rather easy to learn, as well as utilities.

Given the scope of the game I don’t understand why they’d slow down leveling at all. I do agree with some of the earlier concepts that a mix of crafting, leveling, PvPing, etc should be the ideal way to level… but it certainly should be quicker.

Yenn.9185:

Togashi Jack.9531:

I don’t know, this might be a foreign concept for some people but you might want to consider leveling to 80 by a means that is not exclusively crafting, such as… well… playing the game?

“Play how you want”, buddy. Not everyone wanna level a character traditional way when it’s more time and cost efficient to just craft. Not to mention it’s boring as hell to go out in the open world. WvW karma train makes it less painful though.

“Play how you want” logic can only go so far. Come on man. They want people to go out and experience the content that they made. If you aren’t interested in the world content, why even bother playing at all.

Ahlen.7591:

Yenn.9185:

Togashi Jack.9531:

I don’t know, this might be a foreign concept for some people but you might want to consider leveling to 80 by a means that is not exclusively crafting, such as… well… playing the game?

“Play how you want”, buddy. Not everyone wanna level a character traditional way when it’s more time and cost efficient to just craft. Not to mention it’s boring as hell to go out in the open world. WvW karma train makes it less painful though.

“Play how you want” logic can only go so far. Come on man. They want people to go out and experience the content that they made. If you aren’t interested in the world content, why even bother playing at all.

If all GW2 has to offer is world content then I wouldn’t be playing at all. But no, GW2 has dungeons and WvW which is my primary and only concern. I want to do both of these in level 80.

I used the “play how you want” cliche in a sarcastic way in reference to those pugs who “play how they want” in dungeons resulting in a bad run. If “play how you want” applies in dungeons, so in here.

If only Anet could figure out a way to nerf Elitism, the game would be really good. For crafting to 80, it was by design. Do you really think it was a random coincidence that crafting equaled 80 character lvl’s?

To the OP, yes they should align the 10 level’s of character experience back to lvl 400. Inflation is an entirely separate matter.

KOPPER.1458:

—you can still craft to level 80 without ever leaving the initial city.

False

not all crafting professions go to 500 (only 3 do) 1-400 of all professions is only 7 levels now.

people who rush their characters to 80 usually do that on their alts.

if a NEW player trying to do that (level to 80 via crafting), they obviously have been misguided……

Protoavis.9107:

Anet also to an extent control the demand for crafting mats (ie we all know items like iron ore went from a steady 10c, steady as it was around 7c to 10c pretty much since release, to 1s30c as the direct result of ascended crafting). Anet didn’t increase supply but they did increase demand.

They do more than just that eg. adding the ability to salvage ectos had a direct effect on the supply of dust. They are always manipulating the supply which is why I find the notion of treating the TP as a real market economy absurd.

Gibson.4036:

This whole argument over whether or not a player should be able to craft to level cap or not misses a simple point.

ANet intentionally made it possible to do so. This was no mistake that later got fixed. Then they intentionally changed it.

It makes complete sense to ask them, “Why?”

We don’t know that Anet intentionally made it possible to do so. We know that Anet created a system in which is was possible to do so. Was it intended? Were the implications of it thought out?

Is it possible that if everyone could craft relatively cheaply and easily to 80 there would be less people in the open world? Does making people actually play the game server some sort of purpose?

To say that it was an intentional design decision Anet consciously chose (as opposed to an unintended consequence which was later fixed) is an assumption that I don’t think we can make.

Buttercup.5871:

Zaxares.5419:

Honestly, I wish I could sell my level 1 – 20 scrolls. I have 5 “mains”, all at level 80, and at least 30 experience scrolls that I have no use for. At least the skill point scrolls are still handy for MF crafting.

Don’t those scrolls give a new character 20 levels and 15 skill points? If so, doesn’t that allow you to use those points in the way you chose is best (ie the MF)? And who will stop you from deleting that character after using the skill points, making a new one, and then rinse and repeat the above?

If that’s the case, didn’t Anet throw roughly 450g in your lap in skill points, assuming you know how to convert 1 skill point to 1g (I won’t help you there)?

Edit: do this right (ie finish the initial story line) an you’ll have 30 BL keys as well. Might be a nice additional incentive?

Hmm… Interesting idea. However, I don’t know how to convert 1 skill point to 1g, and I don’t craft/MF for profit anyway. I find that activity boring and would rather spend my gaming time doing something else. So, no, I’d still prefer it if I could sell my Experience Scrolls.

“False

not all crafting professions go to 500 (only 3 do) 1-400 of all professions is only 7 levels now."

so 7 levels per profession? plus 20+ scroll and whatever the difference between 400-500 it’s pretty darn close.

What if you don’t have the exp scroll? Then you cannot level to 80 purely by crafting. And for obvious reasons, you don’t really go beyond level 400 on any profession.