Guild Wars 2

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Brother Grimm.5176:

I think there are those players that are obsessed (maybe “highly focused” is a better choice of words) with obtaining a Legendary Weapon and those that don’t even think about them (until a Precursor drops).

There is a third type. I like to think of them as diligent types who are willing to play the game, save, salvage, explore maps, run dungeons and just generally enjoy the game. All the way they can be working on a Legendary, but then they get slapped with that RNG bug in the game. The Mystic Toilet.

Those diligent people have other choices of course. They can find the gold in game, or buy that gold with real money. Neither of those choices is palatable to those diligent types.

I like to think that I am one of those types and I want a known way to obtain a precursor that does not rely on RNG, my luck or anyone else good luck. It should not be up to me to reward someone else for their good luck.

Sorry to be the one to tell you, but you clearly fall into the category of “obsessed” I described. You have allowed this one aspect of the game (the pursuit of a purely cosmetic item) be the main focus your entire perspective of the game as a whole.

Your choice to gamble to resolve your obsession is (as you stated), your choice and is perfectly acceptable for you. However, I challenge you to review the impact this ONE aspect of the game has effected your overall view of the game. If Legendary Weapons did not exist, how would your attitude toward the game be different?

I get that Legendary Weapons are a legit end-game goal, but SHOULD they really be your reason for playing?

Wanze.8410:

So a bloggers wife, who is an “avid player” and “highly skilled” hardcore mmo gamer cant farm enough gold to buy a precursor and thats why she left the game.

Can’t? How about ’won’t’. She won’t do it because farming money for some people is not something they want to do.

Obtena.7952:

Putting it down because the perspective of a hardcore, experienced MMO player would NOT be to QQ about how hard it is to get a legendary … and QUIT over it since it’s mostly just aesthetic. Sounds more like the credentials of a hardcore RPer.

Consider there are games a decade ago that most hardcore MMO players would have played where they literally had to raid for hundreds of hours to get a BiS bit of gear; a legendary pails in comparison to what any real hardcore, experienced player would have experienced.

Another reading fail.

The author wrote:

As soon as my wife had everything but the precursor, the process of crafting her Legendary stopped being fun for her. The last thing on her list is a single item that can be obtained only through the gods’ own luck or a great deal of gold, far more than the hundreds of gold she had already painstakingly farmed to put together the rest of the sword’s ingredients. And not wanting to grind wasn’t really the issue, either: Like me, she sometimes finds grinding relaxing. This is a person who helped me farm ridiculous amounts of materials for my title in World of Warcraft; she camped rare notorious monsters endlessly in Final Fantasy XI; she gathers Atma in FFXIV with only the occasional dark muttering.

I don’t think the difficulty of obtaining Dawn alone would have turned her away if it weren’t for GW2’s gem to gold conversion.

She didn’t stop because it was difficult. She stopped because she didn’t like the way one most go about obtaining a precursor in addition to the not-so-subtle real money -> gems -> in game gold, Anet pushes for.

Whilst I’ve ground out two legendaries, I too refuse to do it for any others until they implement a concrete path to obtain precursors (I’ve the gold to make another legendary, but no way in heck I’m paying over 1k gold for a precursor. I refuse to on principle.) I’ll do challenging content and hours and hours of it.. but I’m done grinding money for them.

If the precursor were broken up into four parts, with the costs evenly distributed, would she still complain?

Any method to craft a precursor would likely parallel the amount of effort one would have had to take to farm the gold to purchase one outright. This all comes down to it being a psychological issue where people would feel better about it if you gave them smaller goals rather than one massive one.

As I’ve said, crafting a precursor (probably via the MF) would require some kind of time gate in order to throttle the creation to keep it on par with the current drop rate (if your goal is to increase the number of precursors floating around, sorry, but that isn’t going to happen without a MAJOR overhaul to the economy).

Something along the lines of:
250 Component 1 (Orichalcum Sword Hilts, for example)
250 Component 2 (Orichalcum Sword Blades, keeping with the example)
250 Obsidian Shards
5 Gifts of the Precursor (each of which will cost 100 Laurels)

Drop those in the Forge and BOOM, you’ve got yourself an accountbound Zap.

There’s your guaranteed crafting method.

mtpelion.4562:

5 Gifts of the Precursor (each of which will cost 100 Laurels)

500 days per precursor? I can hardly wait to watch the rage!

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

mtpelion.4562:

5 Gifts of the Precursor (each of which will cost 100 Laurels)

500 days per precursor? I can hardly wait to watch the rage!

I thought the “rage” was because “there is no guaranteed way to get one”? Any guaranteed method would have to be severely time gated in order to keep the NUMBER of precursors the same as it is now.

If you really meant that the “rage” is because “there are not enough precursors that I am able to get one without exerting a lot of effort” then you should say that so we can discount this as just another person who doesn’t understand what a luxury item is and move on.

I wouldn’t mind having a guaranteed method of creating a precursor. I would mind there being MORE precursors in the game because that would be VERY bad for the economy.

mtpelion.4562:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

mtpelion.4562:

5 Gifts of the Precursor (each of which will cost 100 Laurels)

500 days per precursor? I can hardly wait to watch the rage!

I thought the “rage” was because “there is no guaranteed way to get one”?

The current situation is more like, “no longer interested to play this game, because I cannot obtain the item I want, without spending a rather large amount real world money”.

Oh go ahead, put a 500 day time limit on that precursor. You will see what rage is.

All the ~380 day limit does is prolong the inevitable. We’ll just have to deal with a flood of precursors entering into players hands ~380 days from now. It also takes little effort to get laurels.

mtpelion.4562:

….snip…

The current rise in precursor prices is the result of the wardrobe feature. LOTS of players are going for legendaries right now which has increased demand for the precursors. This demand is temporary as you only need to unlock the skin once (twice if you want the title). Once the people who have been playing for 2 years and have a lot more assets have acquired their legendaries, the prices will fall to meet the offers being made by those with less assets.

So, I reiterate, he doesn’t know how to use buy orders.

I know what caused the rise. So at the 50g/week rate, how much longer would my mr. hypothetical have to farm to go from 900g to the point where he is top buy order? 1 more month? 6 more months? Another year?

And I reiterate, the unknown path is the heart of the problem. Buy orders really don’t have much to do with it except saving you a bit once you’ve finally caught up, if ever.

I also can’t believe people defend a system where one player’s long term goal can be effectively blocked or at the very least obstructed by those with a credit card.

thehipone.6812:

mtpelion.4562:

….snip…

The current rise in precursor prices is the result of the wardrobe feature. LOTS of players are going for legendaries right now which has increased demand for the precursors. This demand is temporary as you only need to unlock the skin once (twice if you want the title). Once the people who have been playing for 2 years and have a lot more assets have acquired their legendaries, the prices will fall to meet the offers being made by those with less assets.

So, I reiterate, he doesn’t know how to use buy orders.

I know what caused the rise. So at the 50g/week rate, how much longer would my mr. hypothetical have to farm to go from 900g to the point where he is top buy order? 1 more month? 6 more months? Another year?

And I reiterate, the unknown path is the heart of the problem. Buy orders really don’t have much to do with it except saving you a bit once you’ve finally caught up, if ever.

I also can’t believe people defend a system where one player’s long term goal can be effectively blocked or at the very least obstructed by those with a credit card.

Prove that people are buying precursors with their credit cards and it’s having a negative impact on everyone else.

Ayrilana.1396:

All the ~380 day limit does is prolong the inevitable. We’ll just have to deal with a flood of precursors entering into players hands ~380 days from now. It also takes little effort to get laurels.

No matter how you addressed it, there would be a spike of precursors because the game is already live. This would simply be one way to do it that would throttle the supply (hopefully the interim would include a farming paradise for T6 materials so that there would be a surplus available for the sudden shock of precursors to bite into mitigating the effect). They’d also have to nerf the current methods into oblivion to offset the new guaranteed supply source.

The point being that the supply of precursors has to be kept low no matter how you go about it.

True. There will be no way to deter a spike.

My idea was something along the lines of having the scavenger hunt take as long as it would for someone to farm the gold. This way it would really be no different than if you or I decided to farm gold for one. Players would also naturally get one as they play but it could be staggered enough to have a minimal impact. There would be a spike in supply if people did the scavenger hunt, but how would that be any different if they had farmed the gold instead?

Having players participate in Orr maps (or other high level maps) where they can get tier 6 materials would help put downward pressure in those prices when their demand increases.

It’s just a rough thought. Precursor supply would increase regardless as to which method is created. That method would just have to time-gate and stagger the acquisition of the precursors while also helping to stabilize prices of the other components in the process.

It’s just giving people a smaller set of goals rather than one large goal to farm XXXX amount of gold for their precursor.

Ayrilana.1396:

thehipone.6812:

mtpelion.4562:

….snip…

The current rise in precursor prices is the result of the wardrobe feature. LOTS of players are going for legendaries right now which has increased demand for the precursors. This demand is temporary as you only need to unlock the skin once (twice if you want the title). Once the people who have been playing for 2 years and have a lot more assets have acquired their legendaries, the prices will fall to meet the offers being made by those with less assets.

So, I reiterate, he doesn’t know how to use buy orders.

I know what caused the rise. So at the 50g/week rate, how much longer would my mr. hypothetical have to farm to go from 900g to the point where he is top buy order? 1 more month? 6 more months? Another year?

And I reiterate, the unknown path is the heart of the problem. Buy orders really don’t have much to do with it except saving you a bit once you’ve finally caught up, if ever.

I also can’t believe people defend a system where one player’s long term goal can be effectively blocked or at the very least obstructed by those with a credit card.

Prove that people are buying precursors with their credit cards and it’s having a negative impact on everyone else.

I’m sorry, I didn’t know that you were new to modern games….but yes, people spend dumb amounts of $$. Even on legendaries

Demand >> supply. Buying a pre with $ chews up supply that would otherwise be available for those players bidding on a pre using in-game acquired gold. The $ purchased gold comes from other players who buy gems for gold and can therefore be assumed to want gem shop items (i.e. the $ purchased gold was not previously chasing a precursor). Therefore, purchases of gold for $ adds to the total amount of gold chasing a pre and, when the pre is bought it reduces the supply. Both factors that would drive prices up.

My point was that you can’t prove it just as I cannot disprove it. Since neither of us can prove it was one way or the other, it should not be used as an argument as it’s nothing but opinion and speculation.

You act as though there’s a lot of people who buy gems to convert to gold so they can buy their legendaries. There’s a pretty good velocity among supply which would mean that there would have to me a good amount of people buying gold to have a negative impact on other players. The ever increasing gold to gem conversion rate hints towards this likely not being the case.

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

Obtena.7952:

Herr der Friedhoefe.2490:

I’m sure glad you’re not a game dev. Or, are you?

I don’t need to be a game dev to ensure that ‘hardcore’ gamers don’t get BiS gear because they can’t handle the game. Anet already does a good job.

As I’ve said, a good two-thirds of my guild is missing in action. Good Job!

Obviously your guild couldn’t handle a game focused on casual play. That’s the great thing about GW2 … 2/3 of your guild left. That’s not directly representative of the health of the game. As far as I’m concerned, the faster people that don’t agree with the fundamental concept and approach of the game leave …. the better. GW2 doesn’t depend on them for survival because people that don’t like something will be less likely to spend money on it. People that do like the game use gemstore. Simple.

Ensign.2189:

Goal/reward pacing is a Big Deal in MMOs. People will only work so long towards a goal before they get frustrated and give up, and if it’s far enough off they won’t even bother to try.

Legendaries, sans-precursors, are done pretty well; it’s a very involved, long term goal, but it is broken up into smaller goals that are achievable – gather this mat, do your map completion, grind some karma, etc. While the whole is pretty daunting from scratch there are a bunch of sub-goals with their mini-rewards of completing gifts and seeing it all come together.

The precursor though is well past the point of being a tractable stand-alone goal and now a lot of people just kind of look at it and go…‘yep, not going to get that’

This sums up eloquently how I’ve been feeling about it, although I hadn’t been able to articulate. I did map completion for fun and I keep looking at those Gifts of Exploration going, “I should do a legendary!” but …

I have terrible RNG luck ( so no Mystic Toilet for me, although I understand its necessary function is to drain resources from the economy). I’m also unconvinced that I can earn gold quickly enough to keep up with inflation on precursors … so that whole legendary urge is a non-starter for me.

The rest can be done at your own pace. Precursors involve competing with how quickly other people make gold, so that puts it pretty much permanently out of reach for me.

Rainshine.5493:

Precursors involve competing with how quickly other people make gold, so that puts it pretty much permanently out of reach for me.

Unless you get one on a drop! I never thought it would happen, but I lucked and got a pre off Teq the other day. Now I’m just waiting for the right time to sell.

I think a problem that a lot of players who want a legendary run into is they make the precursor their primary goal, which, given the current system, is likely to be disappointing. I’ve just been playing the game, getting better gear, which is to say, doing world bosses and fractals. And pumping up that magic find!

Anyway, maybe one day you’ll get a surprise pre in a boss chest. Best of luck!

Andred.1087:

Rainshine.5493:

Precursors involve competing with how quickly other people make gold, so that puts it pretty much permanently out of reach for me.

Unless you get one on a drop! I never thought it would happen, but I lucked and got a pre off Teq the other day. Now I’m just waiting for the right time to sell.

I think a problem that a lot of players who want a legendary run into is they make the precursor their primary goal, which, given the current system, is likely to be disappointing. I’ve just been playing the game, getting better gear, which is to say, doing world bosses and fractals. And pumping up that magic find!

Anyway, maybe one day you’ll get a surprise pre in a boss chest. Best of luck!

Heh, thanks for the well wishes. However, the reason people who want legendaries make precursors their primary goal is because unless they can get that, all the rest of the work and grinding is pointless.

You’re guaranteed, with enough work/grinding, to get all the rest. But it doesn’t matter without the precursor.

Grats on your luck.

thehipone.6812:

Sauzo.6821:

I find it kind of funny that probably most of the people crying about precursor crafting are the ones who REALLY want a precursor. If you REALLY want a precursor, then work for it and start grinding. I mean I started playing the game at head start and in that amount of time I managed to buy 6 precursors and craft 6 legendaries. Now granted I do play a lot but I have also made 6 legendaries. You need to prioritize your wants. You cant buy all that shiny armor and skins and toys if you want a precursor. You need to turn into Scrouge Mcduck and sell everything you get and hoard every copper you get. You will probably also have to play through some times you would rather not. Getting a precursor fast is not an easy or necessarily fun thing. If you want to make it fun, then casually play and after about a year you will have one. Even casually, you should not have a problem making 10g a day. That’s 300g a month not counting anything really good dropping. So in about 90 days, you could throw in a buy order for a precursor and probably get it. Only 90 days. But again, it boils down to how bad do you want it and how much willpower do you have.

Ok, let’s run with this…let’s say a new player got the game last Christmas and spent 3 months leveling up and whatever and at the end of March decided that he wanted to go for twilight. He plays 5 days a week and can make the 10g/day that you cited. The other 2 days he plays sports or works or something and basically only logs on to do the dailies. He is sitting there at the end of march and says “ok, 850g for Dusk, I can make 10g a day so I’ll start grinding away at it and I’ll have it in 4 months or so. No biggie, I’m happy to work for it”.

So, on April 1 he sits 850g away from his precursor and starts plugging away on the champ/karka/world boss train or whatever for an hour a day to hit his 10g (yes, even when it isn’t fun or he would rather do something else in game). For 18 weeks from April 1 to July 31 he grinds away, 5 days/week, 10g/day = 50g/week. Sells everything, buys nothing. And on July 31 he sits with 900g in the bank ready to buy his weapon. So he clicks on the TP to buy it and… it is 1600g (today it is 1500). He started April 850g away and even after 4 months of unfun grinding, he is still 700g (600g in todays price) away.

Do you see the problem yet?

Well I see what you are getting at but the 10g a day reference I used was pretty loose as if you run dungeons and trade in tokens for gear and break the gear for insignias and ecto etc etc, you should make a lot more and that’s not counting if you get any exos, rares and stuff. Time it right and you can catch world events too as they are pretty well set in stone timewise now. So really, you should be able to make 20g a day.

And yes, new players are at a bit of a disadvantage but that’s pretty much true of any MMO.

As for prices rising, I do agree that that part is messed up but its economics, it’s gonna happen. I do think these prices now are pretty close to the top end as the thing that really pushed the price up on precursors was they made the skins shareable which boosted the “value” to legendaries. Unless they add something new to them like way better stats or something else crazy, I don’t see their prices taking off anytime soon. Also the listed price on them is usually higher than most get sold for. If you put in a buy order and it’s within reason, you will usually get it filled. All 6 of my precurors I bought were from buy orders and they were filled within 24 hours of posting them, usually within an hour or 2. Most people that are gonna sell their precursors aren’t gonna squabble over 100g when you are talking 1200-1300g instantly.

But like I’ve said before, if you REALLY care for a legendary, then unfortunately you are going to have to do a lot of grinding and probably most of it wont be that fun. It’s just how it is. Now if you want one but its not a huge concern, then just play normal, have fun and it will come in time. Legendaries are not an instant gratification item, they are a blood, sweat, tears, nerdrage item.

Also all of you advocating this crafting of the precursor do realize that if they implemented it, the prices of T6 mats would go through the roof. Supply and demand, there will be a HUGE demand for T6 mats since everyone and their brother is making a legendary now. So now you will all start to cry about how T6 mats are 1-3g each. That would mean that gift of might and gift of magic would each jump up to between 1000-3000g each to make. So sure you guys who are only needing a precursor would be in heaven but anyone else who needs T6 mats would be totally screwed.

So would you rather pay around 400g each for gift of magic and might plus 1300 for precursor for a total of around 2100g now or would you rather pay 2000-6000g plus whatever the craftable precursor requires if they implemented cratable precursors?

Obtena.7952:

That’s really still a rather stupid reason to quit a game IMO. There are three options to get something, someone doesn’t like one of those options, so they quit …. on an aesthetic item? That article doesn’t have any insight to anything wrong with GW2. It’s more a self-loathing commentary on how someone didn’t live up to their own expectations as a ‘hardcore’ gamer.

Well, it doesn’t really matter how objectively smart or stupid your reasons for quitting an MMO are. Bottom line is numbers (players and profit) because it’s a business. The market is saturated with a billion alternatives right now, so it doesn’t take much to motivate someone to go spend their time on another video game, MMO or otherwise.

I think it is fair to conclude that the current set of Legendary weapons are not the most well designed;

1. it takes as much in materials to make a one handed legendary as a two handed
2. a legendary can be sold on the tp (but ascended items cannot)
3. a precursor is reliant upon luck or grind/gold (or direct purchase gold with real world currency via gems)
4. there is no reasonable way to swap out sigils in a Legendary* (key word reasonable, the TP extractor is not a reasonable option)

With the new season of the LS format perhaps there can one day be a personal LSish quest for a precursor. It wouldn’t be crafted, and so would not take up already demanded t6 items. The experience could have elements of skill and personal story telling involved and might feel more like a personal quest for the character and less of a grind for the player. Like the current LS it could be started and then worked on at the player’s own pace.

It could even have options for getting from point A to objective B as part of the process. For example, you could fight your way to a location/objective OR puzzle jump to bypass the fighting OR puzzle solve a ‘secret path’ to get there. All are challenging but the player is able to choose which challenge they would personally find the more fun/best suited to their skills option.

A Legendary made via this process would have tied to it a series of experiences and challenges overcome, some story and adventure that personally relates to the pc. I can only think that would make a Legendary feel more like a true reward and accomplishment. These would be welcome additions imo to a game that purports to want to set itself apart from the grind grind grind model of most MMO end game content.

I’m the kind of player who would love such an option as a personal precursor quest. The current reliance on luck/grind for a precursor is why I have not pursued one after nearly two years. I have not been blessed with a drop by luck and my gold grinding does not keep pace with the price of precursors on the tp. I’m still trying to keep hope alive that one day there will be a new batch of Legendary weapons and that some of the issues with the current Legendary weapons will also be addressed.

*Now that Legendary weapons have stats that can be changed when out of combat there should be some way to change sigils as well so that players can actually use their Legendary with different build concepts.
One idea that comes to mind is sigil unlocks.
When a player puts a sigil into their Legendary it becomes unlocked for that weapon and changing from one sigil to another would be as simple as selecting the one(s) you want to use from a list of unlocked sigils. This could be done out of combat at any time, like changing stats.

Labjax.2465:

Well, it doesn’t really matter how objectively smart or stupid your reasons for quitting an MMO are. Bottom line is numbers (players and profit) because it’s a business. The market is saturated with a billion alternatives right now, so it doesn’t take much to motivate someone to go spend their time on another video game, MMO or otherwise.

It’s more complex than that in GW2 because it’s not sub based. I already covered this argument. It’s not about number of players, it’s about number of players willing to buy gems. It’s more likely the type of players that quit over hate are less likely to buy gems than players that stay because of love.

Problem with tying it to a skill challenge is that then you will have people crying about how the challenge is too hard etc etc. Make it too easy and not requiring any T6 mats basically boils down to “let me through a story and at the end, hand me my legendary”. How long do you plan this story to take? 1 day? 2 days? 1 week? I mean to make a legendary will all the components took me about 2-3 months and I’ve made 6. Would be satisfied if the story line for a legendary was 3 months long? Again, it sounds like a lot of people want an instant gratification item…

My suggestion was for an alternative to rng or gold grind for a precursor, not the Legendary itself. Plenty of t6 mats are still involved in the Legendary crafting process along with the map completion, clovers, gifts and so on. I’ve been playing for almost two years now (have not made any Legendary weapons), and anyone who has been playing a similar amount of time with precursor woes is not some one who expects instant gratification by any means.

Rather it is the desire for an additional option to obtain a precursor that is not dependent upon rng or buying it for (ever increasing amounts of) gold on the tp.

I would not expect a quest option to be easy, but much like the achievement portion of the LS replay, what is easy to some is hard for others. That will always be a quality of any game design, players have various skill levels and experience content differently.

At a point in the game when some players have multiple Legendary weapons, and others make them to sell on the tp I don’t think it is going to break the game for there to be an option for players to gain an account bound precursor.

The story could be time gated or it might not, and thus how long it takes be up to player motivation/skill. I don’t think how long it takes is relevant as there are plenty of other aspects to the construction of a Legendary weapon besides just the precursor, many of which take some time.

(This would also be for an account bound precursor, and I would expect the weapon made from such a precursor to be account bound as well.)

Obtena.7952:

It’s more complex than that in GW2 because it’s not sub based. I already covered this argument. It’s not about number of players, it’s about number of players willing to buy gems. It’s more likely the type of players that quit over hate are less likely to buy gems than players that stay because of love.

Loyal players are healthy for the longevity of any MMO, regardless of how much money they directly funnel into the hands of the company. An MMO with a population of 100 people, all of whom are spending hundreds of dollars on gems, is not a popluation that’s going to last – there’s no community for them to play the game with.

That said, the point of my response wasn’t to talk about the value of a player that quits. My point was more that it’s a buyer’s market right now for video games in general, so players can get away with having higher standards and quicker dealbreakers than they would have in the days when you could count your game options on one hand.

Labjax.2465:

Loyal players are healthy for the longevity of any MMO, regardless of how much money they directly funnel into the hands of the company. An MMO with a population of 100 people, all of whom are spending hundreds of dollars on gems, is not a popluation that’s going to last – there’s no community for them to play the game with.

That said, the point of my response wasn’t to talk about the value of a player that quits. My point was more that it’s a buyer’s market right now for video games in general, so players can get away with having higher standards and quicker dealbreakers than they would have in the days when you could count your game options on one hand.

Then your point has nothing to do with legendaries … a fickle player in GWE2 over something as trivial as an aestetic item is just as fickle in other games. YOu speak of loyalty? Anyone who quits a game over this triviality isn’t ever loyal, so they aren’t contributing to the healthy longevity of any game.

Obtena.7952:

Then your point has nothing to do with legendaries … a fickle player in GWE2 over something as trivial as an aestetic item is just as fickle in other games. YOu speak of loyalty? Anyone who quits a game over this triviality isn’t ever loyal, so they aren’t contributing to the healthy longevity of any game.

Well considering that it’s completely plausible for someone to be extremely loyal to this game, burn hundreds of gold trying to get a precursor, and never get one.. I don’t see how that’s being senselessly fickle. It’s just that with limited options, they would be more likely to stick around and keep trying, or give up on getting one but keep playing – as opposed to saying “kitten it” and leaving the game entirely.

And considering that all video games are trivial by their very nature, I’m not sure how it’s anything more than your opinion that leaving over a questionably designed system for getting a largely aesthetic item is a sign of an overall fickle player.

My saying that it’s a buyer’s market was in part because being somewhat fickle (not saying you should jump from game to game senselessly) is just the smart thing to do right now as a consumer, when it comes to video games. Being loyal gets you some neat appreciation rewards, but the fact is, companies have to appeal to a revolving-door demographic, caused by fierce competition.

Probably more so the case with games like these where the only barrier to play is purchasing the game itself.

Devs have to make a living, so grindy or not (I am not that active and got Dusk on the “first” MF experiment), it is all about randoms. Others spent hundreds of g’s trying the MF, some even spent worth precursor g’s on the MF. I played a lot of MMO’s and this was the first time (and I believe the last) that I got “that lucky” with RNG.

Labjax.2465:

Well considering that it’s completely plausible for someone to be extremely loyal to this game, burn hundreds of gold trying to get a precursor, and never get one.. I don’t see how that’s being senselessly fickle.

Going to say it again … loyal players don’t quit over visual content, unless they find it offensive. Loyal players don’t focus on the few small things they dislike about the game. They revel in the great many things the like about it. Burning hundreds of gold does not matter to them. Let’s look at that article:

“The one thing that could probably bring my better half back to GW2 is the option to earn a guaranteed precursor weapon through dedicated gameplay.”

Instantly I have a problem … If I’m ‘dedicated’, assuming that means someone plays ‘alot’, then you are guaranteed a precursor. Everything ingame gives you rewards that you can use to make gold, which inturn you can buy a precursor which is always available on the TP. Obviously this writer’s better half isn’t as dedicated a player as would be necessary to justify even owning a legendary. I stopped reading there because that writer’s statement is just nonsense.

The biggest complaint about legendaries shouldn’t be how much gold you need to craft/buy one; it should be the fact that you don’t need to do anything epic to earn it.

Obtena.7952:

Going to say it again … loyal players don’t quit over visual content, unless they find it offensive.

So a system like this leaving a bad taste in someone’s mouth is not “finding it offensive”?

Also, it’s kind of a distortion of the topic to simply call it “visual content.” AFAIK, you can make ascended weapons that are as powerful as legendaries, so yes, they’re not “the best.” But they’re obviously intended to be a highly-sought-after item and are a mark of someone who has invested a lot of time into the game (they are also very recognizable, giving them extra show-offy prestige).

To call it “visual content” with no qualifiers insinuates that they are just some random skin that looks little different from all the other skins. But the reality is that they’re more or less the end-game of gear right now, when it comes to showing off and feeling accomplished.

Labjax.2465:

So a system like this leaving a bad taste in someone’s mouth is not “finding it offensive”?

Sure, but it’s not Anet’s issue. People expect the most expensive gear in the game to be easily gotten. When it’s not, they quit or QQ forever. Those aren’t compelling reasons to change anything or even leave the game if you like it.

Labjax.2465:

Also, it’s kind of a distortion of the topic to simply call it “visual content.” AFAIK, you can make ascended weapons that are as powerful as legendaries, so yes, they’re not “the best.” But they’re obviously intended to be a highly-sought-after item and are a mark of someone who has invested a lot of time into the game (they are also very recognizable, giving them extra show-offy prestige).

Exactly … Legendarys are just Ascended gear but more fancy. Visual Content. If someone can’t make a Legendary, it’s of no matter. They can get Ascended. The only reason to get all bumhurt due to not having a Legedary is because there is no brag factor. Rightly so … it’s a bragging item. People need to get over how ‘hardcore’ they are when they see how much effort it takes to get a Legendary.

Kaldrys.1978:

It’s like the people demanding precursor crafting believe that a precursor will just be handed to them once it’s implemented. You’re going to be disappointed if you think that precursor crafting will change anything. Either way it’s going to require an absurd amount of time and/or resources.

I dunno if I’d say people are demanding it so much as getting over the fact Anet said it was coming almost two years ago now (since the talks of precursor scavenger hunts/crafting happened pretty soon after launch). I’m not sure anyone is willing to suspend their disbelief that it takes two years to come up with an idea and implement it. Anet have a bad hype machine, they promise a lot of things but then often fail to deliver on them which I see a lot of people reacting to in various ways.

In other news, I just had Dusk drop in a TA run….that was an easy 1000g

Obtena.7952:

Sure, but it’s not Anet’s issue. People expect the most expensive gear in the game to be easily gotten. When it’s not, they quit or QQ forever. Those aren’t compelling reasons to change anything or even leave the game if you like it.

Exactly … Legendarys are just Ascended gear but more fancy. Visual Content. If someone can’t make a Legendary, it’s of no matter. They can get Ascended. The only reason to get all bumhurt due to not having a Legedary is because there is no brag factor. Rightly so … it’s a bragging item. People need to get over how ‘hardcore’ they are when they see how much effort it takes to get a Legendary.

Ok? So your opinion is that it’s not an issue. And we’re back at square one, which is: It doesn’t matter what your opinion is. It ultimately matters whether the design choice is having an overall negative effect on the community, compared to other choices.

My opinion doesn’t matter because I don’t think this is an issue? Awesome. That makes sense ><.

Obtena.7952:

My opinion doesn’t matter because I don’t think this is an issue? Awesome. That makes sense ><.

No, that’s just being silly. Your opinion ultimately doesn’t matter (and neither does mine) when it’s up against the cold-hard facts of what impact the design choice is having. And none of us are privy to those facts.

So the best we can do is cling to the few facts we do have. That could include anything from a single player making an article about quitting the game over the situation to one’s circle of friends in-game, or the host of threads on the subject complaining about the system. None of which (of course) are anything close to the full picture.

I mean, we can argue until we’re blue in the face about how loyal a player is over this or that issue, but we have no average level of loyalty to base our conclusions on. So much of it is a shot in the dark and pedantic posturing (and I’m not excluding myself from that).

I’m more wondering what precursor crafting is like.

Currently the way to craft(gamble) precursor is get a bunch of rare weapons with tier5 material and flood into the mystic toilet.

So my guess is the future precursor crafting system just might be farm “a rediculous amount of tier 5 material” into a precursor.

If I had to guess, I would say it would involve multiple forms of time gated material as well as probably recipes for components that require laurels. With all the complaining going on about how precursors can just be bought for ridiculous amounts of gold and involve no skill or anything, you really think they would boil the crafting down to just throwing tons of money? In that case just leave them as is since using all T5 mats or even all T6 mats to make it would be the same as just farm gold and buy it on TP. Either way you would be paying someone for the item/items.

And if they time gate the materials, you know kitten well we will start seeing posts about “WTF, it takes 4 months to make all the mats to make a precursor!! I was expecting to be able to run through a 15 min story and get handed my precursor!!” There is not going to be a way to please everyone. Someone will always cry “foul”.

laokoko.7403:

So my guess is the future precursor crafting system just might be farm “a rediculous amount of tier 5 material” into a precursor.

It’d need to consume an enormous amount of mithril and elder wood, for sure; precursor forging is what is keeping those markets above vendor prices.

T5 fine mats they might be able to let float. Precursor crafting would spike demand for T6 fine mats as well, and letting precursor demand for T5 fall could help keep T6 from going completely nuts.

But whatever it is would need to inhale huge amounts of mithril and elder wood, no question.

In my opinion it would be better for precursor’s to be cheaper and T6’s to be more expensive. Sure you might still have to spend the same amount (or more) in total but at least you can see yourself getting nearer the goal. T6 mats are at least farmable/promotable.

All lower tiered components would increase in price to compensate. You’d be doing more harm than good just so the few people that are unable to set goals for farming the gold can get their precursors for cheaper.

But again all lower tiered items are farmable and available to everyone. So everyone is able to access these items.

I’m no economist and I am most proboably missing something major here.

Try farming 250 for each tier 6 materials or the ~2k+ for each tier 5 material to promote. It’s much more efficient to farm the gold. Also, if people spent the time to collect another 250 of all of the tier 6 materials then they’d be able to cover most of the cost for the precursor.

I’d venture a look at the current LS backpack requirements if you are wondering about what Precursor "crafting " may be like (I’m guessing it’s a small scale test venture).

If players are so focused on obtaining a Legendary that they quit over not being able to easily obtain a Precursor, maybe quitting (or taking a break from) the game is best for everyone. I do not foresee Anet making a U turn in this method because a minority of players on the Forums “demand” another method.

Ensign.2189:

Goal/reward pacing is a Big Deal in MMOs. People will only work so long towards a goal before they get frustrated and give up, and if it’s far enough off they won’t even bother to try.

Legendaries, sans-precursors, are done pretty well; it’s a very involved, long term goal, but it is broken up into smaller goals that are achievable – gather this mat, do your map completion, grind some karma, etc. While the whole is pretty daunting from scratch there are a bunch of sub-goals with their mini-rewards of completing gifts and seeing it all come together.

The precursor though is well past the point of being a tractable stand-alone goal and now a lot of people just kind of look at it and go…‘yep, not going to get that’; and they’re justifiably frustrated that they’ve gone through all the other, well paced micro-goals and are stuck waiting on the mountain to be fixed.

I get that precursor crafting is hard – the forge devours an enormous amount of material from the game to generate precursors, after all, and you can’t just obsolesce that without causing a ton of damage to the economy – but it really should not have taken this long.

Except it’s exactly as tractable as any other component. The only difference between farming for gold versus 100 Charged Lodestones is… one is stored in your bank (and forgotten) and one shows up every time you open your inventory panel.

My solution is: find a way to hide your money from yourself.

1. Put in a buy order for whatever you can afford, even if it’s only 100g.
2. When you have another chunk to invest, drop the buy order and start a new one with the original seed money plus your new funds.
3. Repeat, until the buy offer is as much as you are willing to part with.
4. Still no precursor? Consider selling off some stuff and upping the offer.

This does three things:

• It hides your money, removing your temptation to spend (imo, that’s the biggest impediment for most people).
• It gives you a chance to get the precursor for a deep discount.
• It gives you a psychological edge
  • Part I: you stop thinking about how hard it is to acquire the money and you stop looking at prices so often, which is dispiriting.
  • Part II: when you do look, it’s to add money to your pool. Personally, I’m always surprised by how much I’ve set aside this way and it’s always closer to market price than I remembered.

I’ve recommended this method to a lot of people and several have ended up getting their precursor for 20-50% less than market rate.

• My friend got The Hunter this week for 400g. Going rate: 750-850g.
• I acquired The Legend for about 800g in May, when the going rate was 1,000-1,150g.

Unlike throwing stuff to the forge and hoping Zommy takes pity on you, this method always succeeds (eventually) and you never invest more than you are willing to pay. It’s never a gamble, but, if the market swings the right way, you will end up spending a lot less than most other people.

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

laokoko.7403:

I’m more wondering what precursor crafting is like.

Non-existent.

Given how often it’s been “scrapped” and had to be retooled from the beginning again in less than a two year period (and was allegedly meant to be by the end of last year given their state of the game blog and 8 months into the next year still non-existent)….I wouldn’t hold my breath on it having ever been in the works, just empty words to stop people complaining. I’m sure we’ll get another publicized post about it since people are getting really antsy about it again and again a few months later “The idea just wasn’t working, we had to scrap it and start over”

arkealia.2713:

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

Those things are farmable (or farmable and promotable) and a significant portion of folk already have most mats apart from the precursor.

There’d be an increase but it’ll go along with an increase of farming.

Protoavis.9107:

arkealia.2713:

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

Those things are farmable (or farmable and promotable) and a significant portion of folk already have most mats apart from the precursor.

There’d be an increase but it’ll go along with an increase of farming.

T6 mats being “farmable” is debatable. Sure you can kill the same mobs in the same zone for an hour till DR kicks in and if you are lucky, you will get maybe 10 of those mats except you need 250 of 8 different mats…..

As for being promotable, sure it is but do you really think the T5 mats won’t double or triple in price considering that everyone knows they are promotable. Not to mention that now everyone is making precursors so the demand for those mats will outweigh the supply since the FG train and Queensdale trains are pretty much dead now.

As for most people already having those mats, I’m sure they do. That wouldn’t effect them really but any newer people would be screwed just like people who have everything but a precursor now. So in effect, someone is getting screwed and the forums QQ will just continue.

And as for an increase in farming those T5 and T6 mats, people already cry about having to farm gold to buy precursors now. Imagine having to farm 2000 T6 mats or a LOT more T5 mats. And the worst part is at least when you are farming gold you can do all aspects of the game. Trying to farm a specific T6 mat requires you to kill a certain class of mobs which I don’t about you but I have killed specific mobs for achievements like 1000 minotaurs and my god that was boring.

Like I’ve said before and others have said, making precursors craftable is NOT going to make it cheaper overall to make a legendary. If anything, I imagine it making more as now you will have the hefty boost to T5 and T6 mat cost plus ectos and I’m sure crafting a precursor isn’t gonna be free. I figure it will be about 500g to just craft a precursor. I’m sure you will need 500 in one or more craft professions.

Sauzo.6821:

Protoavis.9107:

arkealia.2713:

People don’t understand that as soon as anet will announce precursor crafting, the price of all mats involved to craft a legendary will explode. Meaning mostly T5, T6, ecto, cores and lodes.
A lot of things will be more expensive and your legendary won’t be any cheaper.

Those things are farmable (or farmable and promotable) and a significant portion of folk already have most mats apart from the precursor.

There’d be an increase but it’ll go along with an increase of farming.

T6 mats being “farmable” is debatable. Sure you can kill the same mobs in the same zone for an hour till DR kicks in and if you are lucky, you will get maybe 10 of those mats except you need 250 of 8 different mats…..

As for being promotable, sure it is but do you really think the T5 mats won’t double or triple in price considering that everyone knows they are promotable. Not to mention that now everyone is making precursors so the demand for those mats will outweigh the supply since the FG train and Queensdale trains are pretty much dead now.

As for most people already having those mats, I’m sure they do. That wouldn’t effect them really but any newer people would be screwed just like people who have everything but a precursor now. So in effect, someone is getting screwed and the forums QQ will just continue.

And as for an increase in farming those T5 and T6 mats, people already cry about having to farm gold to buy precursors now. Imagine having to farm 2000 T6 mats or a LOT more T5 mats. And the worst part is at least when you are farming gold you can do all aspects of the game. Trying to farm a specific T6 mat requires you to kill a certain class of mobs which I don’t about you but I have killed specific mobs for achievements like 1000 minotaurs and my god that was boring.

Like I’ve said before and others have said, making precursors craftable is NOT going to make it cheaper overall to make a legendary. If anything, I imagine it making more as now you will have the hefty boost to T5 and T6 mat cost plus ectos and I’m sure crafting a precursor isn’t gonna be free. I figure it will be about 500g to just craft a precursor. I’m sure you will need 500 in one or more craft professions.

Re-read what I said “(or farmable and promotable)”

you’re thinking about it wrong but have all the right info available.

T5 mats are excessively farmable, it’s well documented on the wiki what mobs drop with T5 mat, these mobs are in many zones that you’d really only encounter DR if you chose to or are just unaware. Play kitten

omeone who recently (4 days maybe) sold all my (fine crafting) mats I’m sitting on average of 12 of each t6 mat, none are bought, I pretty much just do world boss, dungeons and karma train EoTM, during the week I’ll be online an hour or two each night most nights and 4 or so on weekends…given how many I have for the time played, not really something to complain about….that’s under 3 months from just drops.

(I have all slayer achievements apart from giant, I did them as part of the daily kill achievement….just because you can do it all in 1 go, and possibly bore your brains out, doesn’t mean you have to do it all in 1 go, it’s not a race, the mobs aren’t getting rare, they don’t cost you anything to kill, they aren’t doubling in TP cost every couple of months….)

precursor crafting could (depending on how it’s handled) make legendary crafting significantly cheaper for some players….players that aren’t impatient. The biggest hurdle to legendaries are the precursors due to the rarity and ever climbing price point, they aren’t farmable at all, rely entirely on RNG unlike t5 and t6 mats. To make the argument that a precursor is the equivalent to acquire the 250 of the 8 T6 mats is silly, they aren’t comparable, if it were it’d have 0 t6 mats from not actively going for them. Sure the impatient people will likely see no real difference in cost because they’re buying everything from the TP but that isn’t everyone that’s playing.