Guild Wars 2

As the title says.. I think stimulating gambling is a bad thing

Because people keep buying into it.

For all the talk and rage of Southsun’s crates, I keep seeing more and more threads about “omg I bought rich coffers and got nothing”. Hell, I bet if I checked I’d find many of those people were the ones saying they would never buy glorified lottery tickets again.

It’s kittening MW2 all over again: people learn nothing, so they get what they deserve.

It’s the mini polarbear all over again. I think the worst part of it, is that it isn’t any fun. It sucks the fun out of the game like Norgu sucks food from your kitchen. It’s this big blackhole that takes away fun along with lots of your gold.

I hope someone at Anet reads this, and reconsiders all this gambling.

Working as intended. And yes, that’s really worrying. I mean, a track race? Which rewards you for playing more? (Just. Need. Three. More. Tickets. For. That. Higher. Reward. Just three more, c’monnnnnnnn Meeeeeep!) Everything screams “please place a bet in our casino! Is this your lucky day? No luck at the track race? Maybe try our coffers! No luck? Our BL chests will certainly give you something! You can’t be unlucky all the time, right?”

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

It’s the mini polarbear all over again. I think the worst part of it, is that it isn’t any fun. It sucks the fun out of the game like Norgu sucks food from your kitchen. It’s this big blackhole that takes away fun along with lots of your gold.

I hope someone at Anet reads this, and reconsiders all this gambling.

Except the mini polar bear was free. You could try as many times as you liked and never spend a penny. You could even make money selling the consumables you got. (In GW1 consumables went for decent money because you needed them for titles.)

And as people said they keep doing it because people keep buying them.

Vegas wasn’t built on winners.

Xirin.8593:

Vegas wasn’t built on winners.

This is true. Gambling is fun. I’m gonna go buy a scratch off now actually. Cmooooon Monopoly man!

Xirin.8593:

Vegas wasn’t built on winners.

Haha XD

I mean, a track race? Which rewards you for playing more? (Just. Need. Three. More. Tickets. For. That. Higher. Reward. Just three more, c’monnnnnnnn Meeeeeep!)

Please do the math:

1 Ticket → 20s
3 Tickets → 60s
7 Tickets → 140s

The amount of silver per ticket stays the same, no matter how much you are winning.

Buttercup.5871:

Working as intended. And yes, that’s really worrying. I mean, a track race? Which rewards you for playing more? (Just. Need. Three. More. Tickets. For. That. Higher. Reward. Just three more, c’monnnnnnnn Meeeeeep!) Everything screams “please place a bet in our casino! Is this your lucky day? No luck at the track race? Maybe try our coffers! No luck? Our BL chests will certainly give you something! You can’t be unlucky all the time, right?”

Do you think one should be rewarded for playing less? I am confused by your highlighted word.

That said, there are definitely issues with the moa track racing. It is completely random throwing money down the drain. I would prefer if there was actually some sort of game embedded in this mini game.

I don’t see an issue with Moa Racing. It gives rich people a money sink, and it keeps those 9-rings guys entertained. All it needs now is a title associated with it. (My Guild Hall Smells of Rich Mahogany)

I do think the above poster has a point though. The problem with Dragon Bash is that there’s too much “gambling” involved in this event. The Moa race gold sink gambling and this whole purchasable RNG box thing. You may say, “Who cares? Just don’t gamble! Don’t take part!” The big problem with gambling (as many gambling addicts know) is that the lure / trap of gambling can be very destructive and addictive. It is almost impossible for some people to resist and if sanctioned and encouraged by Anet it can result in some really upset, financially wounded customers.

If you have an object for sale, the consumer will gauge the price, weigh the time/effort/financal expense in accruing the item, then make a choice to get it or not. if they do spend the money they feel satisfied because they got what they paid for, and there are usually no surprises. With gambling it’s completely different.

The gambling cycle goes something like this. The consumer believes they have a chance of “winning”, that is spending a little and getting a lot. In reality the odds are stacked against them, but the BELIEF that you could win big (or get the weapon skin in an RNG box) is tantalizing. So you invest, and start buying boxes or betting on moas. At a certain point, if the consumer starts to lose, they become obsessed with the idea that only a few more bets will make it all worth it. They hate the idea of all the previous lost bets or boxes purchased being a waste of money, so they actually wind up spending MORE money. This is where it starts to really get out of control. The more you lose the more you bet. If you win, you keep betting, high on winning. If you lose, you keep betting. It’s a psychological trap. And it’s very, very dangerous. I know families in RL that were torn apart by gambling. One parent got hooked on gambling and secretly spent all their money, always thinking he could win it all back and make it worth it.

In terms of GW2, you can clearly see this psychological trap in play (albeit on a smaller scale). The posters on this thread got stuck in it. I saw someone on the forums openned thousends of boxes and spent almost $100 in a day. 0 tickets. Another lost 45g on Moa racing. That’s the gambling cycle demon in action. And I think Anet should be very careful about releasing that demon on their players.

Sure, you can argue (as casinos do) that the responsibility rests with the client, not the house. But the house is responsible for setting up the trap. And Anet should really reconsider this method for future events.

Entropy.4732:

I do think the above poster has a point though. The problem with Dragon Bash is that there’s too much “gambling” involved in this event. The Moa race gold sink gambling and this whole purchasable RNG box thing. You may say, “Who cares? Just don’t gamble! Don’t take part!” The big problem with gambling (as many gambling addicts know) is that the lure / trap of gambling can be very destructive and addictive. It is almost impossible for some people to resist and if sanctioned and encouraged by Anet it can result in some really upset, financially wounded customers.

If you have an object for sale, the consumer will gauge the price, weigh the time/effort/financal expense in accruing the item, then make a choice to get it or not. if they do spend the money they feel satisfied because they got what they paid for, and there are usually no surprises. With gambling it’s completely different.

The gambling cycle goes something like this. The consumer believes they have a chance of “winning”, that is spending a little and getting a lot. In reality the odds are stacked against them, but the BELIEF that you could win big (or get the weapon skin in an RNG box) is tantalizing. So you invest, and start buying boxes or betting on moas. At a certain point, if the consumer starts to lose, they become obsessed with the idea that only a few more bets will make it all worth it. They hate the idea of all the previous lost bets or boxes purchased being a waste of money, so they actually wind up spending MORE money. This is where it starts to really get out of control. The more you lose the more you bet. If you win, you keep betting, high on winning. If you lose, you keep betting. It’s a psychological trap. And it’s very, very dangerous. I know families in RL that were torn apart by gambling. One parent got hooked on gambling and secretly spent all their money, always thinking he could win it all back and make it worth it.

In terms of GW2, you can clearly see this psychological trap in play (albeit on a smaller scale). The posters on this thread got stuck in it. I saw someone on the forums openned thousends of boxes and spent almost $100 in a day. 0 tickets. Another lost 45g on Moa racing. That’s the gambling cycle demon in action. And I think Anet should be very careful about releasing that demon on their players.

Sure, you can argue (as casinos do) that the responsibility rests with the client, not the house. But the house is responsible for setting up the trap. And Anet should really reconsider this method for future events.

I agree.

If you think you’re going to win big at the moa racing then you need to work on your maths skills.

The best you could do is win enough tickets to get the mini before spending more than it costs on the TP and make a small profit by selling it, but it’s not worth it because you could make more money in the same amount of time farming dragon coffers, or dungeons or…doing pretty much anything else in-game.

Iavra.8510:

I mean, a track race? Which rewards you for playing more? (Just. Need. Three. More. Tickets. For. That. Higher. Reward. Just three more, c’monnnnnnnn Meeeeeep!)

Please do the math:

1 Ticket -> 20s
3 Tickets -> 60s
7 Tickets -> 140s

The amount of silver per ticket stays the same, no matter how much you are winning.

You are quite correct.

I suspect the original sentiment of the post can be seen when we consider the payout for first place end even second place is a net gain compared to the cost of a single bet. This encourages players to toss their silver at Tigg in the hopes of getting some kind of a streak and making a little gold. Pair that with the achievement that keeps players there for three wins (potentially giving them a taste of how lucky breaks can pay off or creating a situation wherein a player tries to recover losses by betting some more) and you’ve got a recipe that hooks folks wherein NPCs happily help them part with their money.

Hopefully that’s what the other poster meant, otherwise there may be more factors than gambling behind players losing money.

Simple. Because gambling makes money. In this case it makes a good money sink.

Losers lose money and winners having won money will tends to play more until they too lose money. Also the odds in this moa racing is 2.2g won / 2.5g lose. Which means in the long run , you will lose money.

Gambling is just a lesson in maths. Hopefully all the kiddies see it for what it is and skip it in game and in real life.

ANET is a business, people are stupid. Dangerous for the people when those two facts collide

On the bright side, it seems that most people just did the moa racing for the achievement and/or the moa.

Entropy.4732:

Sure, you can argue (as casinos do) that the responsibility rests with the client, not the house. But the house is responsible for setting up the trap. And Anet should really reconsider this method for future events.

That’s like saying it’s the pub’s fault for you getting drunk and getting hungover because they gave you access to the alcohol. Or a motor company’s fault you got a fine because they sold you the car you were speeding in.

I’m not defending the gambling, but people really DO need to take responsibility. It’s not compulsory to buy boxes. It’s not compulsory to place bets. If people wanted to gamble with their money, that’s their choice.

Dedlaw.9130:

Entropy.4732:

Sure, you can argue (as casinos do) that the responsibility rests with the client, not the house. But the house is responsible for setting up the trap. And Anet should really reconsider this method for future events.

That’s like saying it’s the pub’s fault for you getting drunk and getting hungover because they gave you access to the alcohol. Or a motor company’s fault you got a fine because they sold you the car you were speeding in.

I’m not defending the gambling, but people really DO need to take responsibility. It’s not compulsory to buy boxes. It’s not compulsory to place bets. If people wanted to gamble with their money, that’s their choice.

Except gambling as a psychological disorder is compulsory.

In Miami, FL, where I live, our local casino is known to have arranged deals with nursing homes/elderly medical centers, where they cart elderly people and their pensions to the slot machines as “therapy”. And the older ladies, mathematically ignorant and bored, are robbed of their pensions.

Free will is actually a very illusory thing. Your brain is wired a certain way, and you are easy to manipulate.

They won’t get the highly educated people with no predisposition to addictive behavior, but they will get the ignorant and those with addictive behaviors.

Casinos are predatory, and the only reason they exist is because unscrupulous states make money off removing wealth from its citizens while occasionally concentrating a pittance of that wealth on a single winner. It’s not socially beneficial at all.

There is also quite a crisis with alcohol consumption. Just because prohibition is gone doesn’t remove the fact that a lot of violence that happens at later times of the day are alcohol related, vehicular homicide is closely tied to alcohol consumption, and you have a culture where alcohol consumption is seen as par for the course as a recreational activity when the amounts of alcohol we are consuming as a culture is destructive.

You could say the same with cigarettes, but when children and teenagers grow around peers who drink and smoke, and these activities have likely negative repercussions, the concept of free will becomes laughable. Most will learn to like these substances, and economies and businesses who profit off this cultural addiction are not harmless — they’re amoral. It’s one thing to consume alcohol as a culinary venture, but it’s another for clubs to sell boatloads of alcohol to impair the judgement of the patrons.

Nobody is blameless in this process.

If someone is really spending all their IRL money down to the last penny on the BL Coffers, yes, they need an intervention and to be cut off – but people can get like that about almost anything. Why take these things away from people who aren’t addicted and can enjoy it responsibly ?

My grandpa buys a lottery ticket every week, but he’s not doing it out of desperation or going broke doing it. If he was going into a casino and took all his retirements savings thinking he could game the machines into ending up with his money making money – that would be a problem. I know people who go to casinos for a vacation – heck, my dad went to Vegas for one of his milestone birthdays and I don’t know that he’s been inside a casino more than a handful of times, otherwise.

And with the lottery example – just like that supports schools, people buying the Coffers are supporting a game they apparently really, really like. And some people are okay with that even if they don’t get the big payout.

This stuff does hit people hard, I don’t want to make light of it – but I don’t know how ANet could know who those people are without being alerted by someone near them (and maybe there needs to be a system for that, not just in this game, too). How can they know if it’s someone who blew their emergency savings or someone who can drop $1000 on an MMO event and barely notice the difference in their bank account ?

I don’t think the Moa racing is an issue unless someone is buying gold to keep playing (which I doubt). It’s clearly a betting game and a gold sink and I don’t see anything wrong with that, even Pokemon had a silly “gambling” side-game. Anyone who is using a video game to then map-out their choices about real life does need help. :/

Zenith.7301:

Except gambling as a psychological disorder is compulsory.

It’s not “compulsory” but rather a compulsion indicative of poor self-control or emotional management, at least in certain contexts.

Substances or activities that are addictive also tend to be fun. You’re sliding down a pretty slippery slope towards advocating the removal of many enjoyable features of our environments.

For the most part, gambling, alcohol, cigarettes, and even video games are enjoyed safely by the vast majority. Abolishing them because of a minority who are susceptible to addiction would not address the underlying problem of poor self-control, which likely means they would find other avenues for their addictive behaviors anyway.

Zenith.7301:

Dedlaw.9130:

Entropy.4732:

Sure, you can argue (as casinos do) that the responsibility rests with the client, not the house. But the house is responsible for setting up the trap. And Anet should really reconsider this method for future events.

That’s like saying it’s the pub’s fault for you getting drunk and getting hungover because they gave you access to the alcohol. Or a motor company’s fault you got a fine because they sold you the car you were speeding in.

I’m not defending the gambling, but people really DO need to take responsibility. It’s not compulsory to buy boxes. It’s not compulsory to place bets. If people wanted to gamble with their money, that’s their choice.

Except gambling as a psychological disorder is compulsory.

In Miami, FL, where I live, our local casino is known to have arranged deals with nursing homes/elderly medical centers, where they cart elderly people and their pensions to the slot machines as “therapy”. And the older ladies, mathematically ignorant and bored, are robbed of their pensions.

Free will is actually a very illusory thing. Your brain is wired a certain way, and you are easy to manipulate.

They won’t get the highly educated people with no predisposition to addictive behavior, but they will get the ignorant and those with addictive behaviors.

Casinos are predatory, and the only reason they exist is because unscrupulous states make money off removing wealth from its citizens while occasionally concentrating a pittance of that wealth on a single winner. It’s not socially beneficial at all.

There is also quite a crisis with alcohol consumption. Just because prohibition is gone doesn’t remove the fact that a lot of violence that happens at later times of the day are alcohol related, vehicular homicide is closely tied to alcohol consumption, and you have a culture where alcohol consumption is seen as par for the course as a recreational activity when the amounts of alcohol we are consuming as a culture is destructive.

You could say the same with cigarettes, but when children and teenagers grow around peers who drink and smoke, and these activities have likely negative repercussions, the concept of free will becomes laughable. Most will learn to like these substances, and economies and businesses who profit off this cultural addiction are not harmless — they’re amoral. It’s one thing to consume alcohol as a culinary venture, but it’s another for clubs to sell boatloads of alcohol to impair the judgement of the patrons.

Nobody is blameless in this process.

If a person has a gambling disorder it’s not the games fault, nor should they take responsibility for that person’s actions. I recall a thread in Beta calling for the removal of spiders because the poster had a phobia for them. If a person needs help, it’s not the game’s responsibility so see that they get it.

Free will is an illusion? I’d rather say lack of impulse-control is becoming an issue with people trying to justify it rather than treat it.

As with your alcohol point about it being a cultural issue, is it the club’s fault for people wanting to get drunk? I myself went through the phase where you only consider it a good party if you got as drunk as humanly possibly without dying. Was that the club’s fault, or was it my fault because I was young, stupid and irresponsible?

The same goes for the gambling. They convince themselves they will win and end up risking more than they should, but they don’t want to take responsibility when they don’t. It’s a mentality issue.

Sure, we can paint the casinos and the clubs as the bad guys, but the reality is that the warnings of the risks related to abuse are everywhere, people just choose to ignore it.

It’s not Anet or the game’s fault if people can’t control their gambling. People who can’t control their impulses just love to blame everyone else.

Woljnir.7810:

It’s not Anet or the game’s fault if people can’t control their gambling. People who can’t control their impulses just love to blame everyone else.

By that definition, a casino cannot be held responsible for the problem of gambling. But they are facilitating the problem. And they are responsible for the statistics of winning.

Anet is in full control of how likely a player is to win one of those fancy weapon tickets. Why make the chance to get one so low? I don’t see what the fun is in that. Shouldn’t fun be the focus here?

How much less gambling do you all want from the game?
The dragon wing skins drop from mobs and can be bought off the trading post (no gambling).
The Mini Moa Racers can be bought off the trading post (no gambling)
Only the accquisition of the Jade Weapon Tickets involves some RNG, however, the dragon coffers containing them drop from mobs quite frequently (so IF at all that’s free gambling).
All the DB items CAN actually be gotten without actually gambling for them. If this game has any less gambling, it stops being a game and starts being a free-for-all bazar.

Ironically this thread has reminded me to go gamble. Thanks for stimulating gambling through promotion of said gambling.