Guild Wars 2

I have to be honest when I say this feels like you had the story planned. Came to the idea of a new wvw map to fix que issues, as well as add more wvw-ish content and then thought “how do we attach this to the LS”. Have to say that even if this is isn’t the case, it certainly feels that way.

I was not a fan of her being in the fractals, and I am certainly not a fan of her being in the new wvw map. It feels shoe horned in and I don’t even know the story yet. To be honest I don’t even want to know at this point. That is very unfair to you guys who wrote the story. But that is how I feel as a player.

It would be really cool if they made EotM a kind of instanced area that is cross-server where people who join-in get paired in by their orders (Vigil v. Whispers v. Priory) so that there could be a kind of open-world, faction-type pvp people have wanted. Kind of excited now…

This really has the potential to be an amazing update. If people are mixed together randomly (think overflow concept) and the 3 sides are fighting each other while trying to be the one side to claim the LS objective, this has the chance to the best release in the history of the game.

@ KorKor… have you seen this update? Maybe he has taken how players feel into consideration, and you will be immensely pleased when you finally partake. Cool it, and don’t denounce it until you’ve seen it for yourself.

BlackBeard.2873:

It would be really cool if they made EotM a kind of instanced area that is cross-server where people who join-in get paired in by their orders (Vigil v. Whispers v. Priory) so that there could be a kind of open-world, faction-type pvp people have wanted. Kind of excited now…

Awesome idea, but there is a problem with it. That would mean that players would have to be far enough in their personal story to have joined an order (level 26 mission). This would force all the players who have skipped the personal story, either by lack of caring or because its one of their alternate characters (meaning they have done personal story at least once on another character), to actually do the personal story. I can guarantee you that this pre-requirement would upset a massive amount of players, especially those who don’t do pve much.
Now on the other hand there could be a system of you chose which side to join with in the battle, but that would be getting into the same problem that regular Spvp already naturally has (choosing to join the team that’s wining/ change to the winning team).

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

@ KorKor… have you seen this update? Maybe he has taken how players feel into consideration, and you will be immensely pleased when you finally partake. Cool it, and don’t denounce it until you’ve seen it for yourself.

The track record of the Scarlet arc isn’t very good though and the history of the larger story in general with GW2 is dubious. While the smaller type stories have often been done quite well. So they track record speaks for itself and even if abit harsh I stand by what I said. Plus even if on the off chance it is done really well one segment of a movie/book/game being amazing never makes up for the rest.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

@ KorKor… have you seen this update? Maybe he has taken how players feel into consideration, and you will be immensely pleased when you finally partake. Cool it, and don’t denounce it until you’ve seen it for yourself.

After a year of “don’t denounce it until you’ve seen it” & every release being exactly what we feared or worse in terms of story this just doesn’t hold water anymore. I think the most logical way to look at the upcoming LS is:
“Everything we’ve seen so far is fail & I’m waiting for the end to be more fail, while it would be nice to have something ok.”
I love all the features & the Marionette fight is awesome, but he story & characters? fuhhhh.

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

aren’t you running out of time to put it in the game?

As someone who doesn’t really like PvP myself, I can understand the dislike from players who want PvE and PvP to remain separate. At the same time though, from a design perspective, it DOES make good sense for updates like this to be introduced. There will be a portion of PvE’ers who have never tried WvW before, and may find their interest piqued after this LS. (Or vice versa.) If you really don’t like it, that’s fine, and you’re perfectly entitled to stick to PvE/PvP only. But having “exhibition days” to encourage people to mingle is always a good thing. Too much separation leads to disconnect from each other, and an “us vs them” mentality is not a good thing for a community to have in the long haul if we’re all playing the same game.

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

I really do hope this confidence is well founded… As I wouldn’t wish to be the one who has to explain to my boss why I wasted 12 months of resources on a top heavy plot finale that failed to meet expectations or drove players away.

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

No matter how clever the third novel may be, the trilogy fails if the first book falls flat.

If there is one lesson learned from the fourteen months devoted to Scarlet Briar, for the love of Melandru’s Magnificent Melons let it be this: blighted roots make withered branches and rotten fruit. It doesn’t matter how sweet the desert may be if we have to slog through a burnt appetizer and a poisoned main course to reach it.

You may see a grand mystery culminating in the ultimate reveal, but that is not what we see. We see a plot that has gone on for thirteen months without even bothering to present a grand plan or proper pacing. We see a villain with zero reasoning for her almighty resources with fingers in every pie “because she’s so clever and has hidden powers”. We see an obsession with one single sylvari that eclipses anything else in all of Tyria, so much so that her random antics demand an entire year’s worth of devotion, and you can’t be bothered to tell us why until the end. Oh, sure, I’m sure it seems like a fantastic trail of bread crumbs for one who knows the secret behind the curtain…

…But all we see is “keep going to discover the reason you should care.”

Too late. The ship has sailed. An engine cannot run on fumes, nor can a story be strung along on the promise of eventually revealing its plot hole filler for over a year. We’re tired. We’re bored. We’re waiting for something that feels like a story of Guild Wars, not a spinoff series about a certain writer’s pet villain.

Please, for the love of Tyria, know this: it doesn’t matter how good the finale may be. The journey must equal the destination.

BobbyStein.2315:

Naetell.3815:

Lessons learned here should be that writing for an MMO is completely different from how you’d approach a traditional novel.

This is definitely true. We also have to deal with the fact that simply writing something doesn’t guarantee that it will be implemented in a way that represents the original vision (if it’s even implemented). We learned a lot over the past year. I hope you all will see the difference in the next few releases. I look forward to hearing your comments late next week.

Yeah, that’s one of the pitfalls of having to work with a large team of people. The only thing you can do is try to mitigate it as much as possible is by communicating that vision to the best of your abilities. Programmers aren’t usually writers themselves, so I imagine a lot of “translation” will need to happen to keep everyone on the same page.

If I see Scarlet in the edge of the myst, I will jump out of a window and hope I don’t wake up after landing…

DarksunG.9537:

Naetell.3815:

Hence, players looked in the direction of the villain instead, and found it a frustrating experience at best. Unlike the NPC characters, the player character has never been personally harmed by Scarlet, and thus has no motivation to go after her and find things out about her other than what the content is pointing them to. There also is a lack of player agency in this, since players have proven to be more driven to find these connecting threads than the dev team orginally estimated.

Ehh.. while I agree with your assessment of how novels are written & some of the faux pas of the LS, I totally disagree this really has much to do with how annoying & dumb Scarlet is. I mean it barely enters into what the dialog, tone, attitude & abilities of the character are.. all of which are awful. General Morgan has even less focus & reveal in NF then Scarlet has in the LS & yet he is lightyears beyond Scarlet as an interesting & believable character. No, I don’t buy that the problems with Scarlet have anything to do with the LS format & how exactly the player plays into the story. that really mostly effects what you think of your own character.

She is very much, or very similar to, the brain child of a first time role player who wants to make a character that can do everything ever, in a desperate attempt to make that character interesting, and in doing so, had instead made a mary-sue character that is not interesting at all, but in fact a poorly made, two dimensional character with no depth to them.

This is exactly how I felt about the character before I even knew what a Mary Sue was.

I was talking about the story as a whole. Not giving a treatise on Scarlet’s character in detail.
It’s quite simple though:
1) Scarlet’s intelligence and her oratory skills are informed abilities. We are told she’s a genius, she never demonstrates this directly. We are told she formed these various alliance, yet are never shown how she does this. This violates the most basic rule in all writing: Show, don’t tell.
However, as noted before, classic villains often do a lot of things off screen and get away with it. Scarlet doesn’t because players make it out to be as if the story hinges on her character alone. It does not, and it never has.
2) Dialog. Much of Scarlet’s early dialog was nothing short of simple taunts with little to no subtlety. While she’s been written from the start as a character suffering from madness, her symptoms do not conform to any forms of psychological disorders as we know them in real life. Sure enough, such distinct behaviour can be written around, but it would involve making up a lot of reasoning to excuse it. Note that we haven’t received this information in the game yet.
It would have been far more believable to take an existing disorder, study up on it, and tinker with it just enough to suit the plot. This way, it is easier as a writer to get into the state of mind the character could realistically be in. It’s a simple, yet effective, way to avoid falling in “cackling evil witch” categories.
Also note that Scarlet’s dialog was better by miles this patch. So it should be less of a concern towards the future.

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

How does this help your statement?

KorKor.9452:

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

@ KorKor… have you seen this update? Maybe he has taken how players feel into consideration, and you will be immensely pleased when you finally partake. Cool it, and don’t denounce it until you’ve seen it for yourself.

The track record of the Scarlet arc isn’t very good though and the history of the larger story in general with GW2 is dubious. While the smaller type stories have often been done quite well. So they track record speaks for itself and even if abit harsh I stand by what I said. Plus even if on the off chance it is done really well one segment of a movie/book/game being amazing never makes up for the rest.

Yes, they have a track record of faults; if they were shipwrights, their craft would have sunk the moment it left the slipway. But we the player base have been all too willing to jump in and point out the holes in their boat, so perhaps they took note. Maybe they have learned from their mistakes, accounted for the holes, and graduated from amateur nautical engineering to become the true pioneers they have always claimed to be. Well, then again, maybe this release will be crap… but that remains to be seen.

I am sceptical especially how you are going wrap up and explain everything in those 3 remaining updates.

kokiman.2364:

I am sceptical especially how you are going wrap up and explain everything in those 3 remaining updates.

You know they’re not going to explain everything, what they’re going to do is wrap up Scarlet to where she’s no longer a lingering/loitering threat. I can see that happening easily enough after Edge of the Mists launches and the two following updates present us first with her ultimate goal, and then allowing us to foil it or otherwise ensure her reign is over.

And then we feed her into a charr-made wood chipper.

To go back to the OP’s topic, WvW players shouldn’t have an issue with this living story update because it shouldn’t affect the PPT. Now if this somehow spills over onto the BL’s, then… well… yeah, expect a heated topic or two about it

The upheaval from the WvW player base wasn’t Scarlet as much as having achievement hunters injected into Leagues. It was such a bad move on the developers end. The achievement should have been a 2 week LS event prior to Leagues beginning. Though it’s all water under the bridge since a lot of us don’t ever want to see Leagues implemented again.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You know they’re not going to explain everything, what they’re going to do is wrap up Scarlet to where she’s no longer a lingering/loitering threat.

W-what? Why? And what does that even mean? They always said that later on we will understand why she did certain things.
I really hope we won’t end up asking ourselves “Hm so why exactly was [for example] Tequalt part of this?”

kokiman.2364:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You know they’re not going to explain everything, what they’re going to do is wrap up Scarlet to where she’s no longer a lingering/loitering threat.

W-what? Why? And what does that even mean? They always said that later on we will understand why she did certain things.
I really hope we won’t end up asking ourselves “Hm so why exactly was [for example] Tequalt part of this?”

You’re going to have questions like that, like “so, how did Moto figure in?” and “when is the next Bazaar of the Four Winds”, and most importantly:

“What’s next for Hobo-Tron?”

Seriously that’s what I expect. The Living World concept, from what they’ve alluded to, is not meant so each season answers everything which went on within it, so they can build off it later with call backs, recurring elements of minor or major importance, and otherwise allow for some persistent threads to move through what they write later.

All we know for certain is this will finish Scarlet’s role as a threat.

In short? I expect it to be almost exactly like a season finale of Lost.

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

kokiman.2364:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You know they’re not going to explain everything, what they’re going to do is wrap up Scarlet to where she’s no longer a lingering/loitering threat.

W-what? Why? And what does that even mean? They always said that later on we will understand why she did certain things.
I really hope we won’t end up asking ourselves “Hm so why exactly was [for example] Tequalt part of this?”

You’re going to have questions like that, like “so, how did Moto figure in?” and “when is the next Bazaar of the Four Winds”, and most importantly:

“What’s next for Hobo-Tron?”

Seriously that’s what I expect. The Living World concept, from what they’ve alluded to, is not meant so each season answers everything which went on within it, so they can build off it later with call backs, recurring elements of minor or major importance, and otherwise allow for some persistent threads to move through what they write later.

All we know for certain is this will finish Scarlet’s role as a threat.

In short? I expect it to be almost exactly like a season finale of Lost.

But we already had enough of that in GW1 and those questions are still unanswered :/ Welp that’s frustrating

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased.

If i remember correctly, the previous “well integrated” LS content in WvW were the achievements in Obsidian Sanctum. And all the griefing spree attached to them. Please forgive me for being highly sceptical now.

It’s was clearly planned as a link between wvw and pve. Remember 3 things
1. The finale is supposed to change tyria forever bla bla bla (that also includes wvw….wvw is part of tyria not some separate universe)
2. PvE content has been bugging WvW players since the toxic alliance thing went up. Remember the spores everywere in wvw that every living person that plays that mode cursed?
3. In december they also introduced those “do not touch” things in WvW. They can be found on all maps.

So yes….the “big change” for the finale is this new map they added that influences not only PvE content but also WvW content. It’s ment to to show there’s a bridge between PvE and WvW and everything is interconnected. They are trying to remove the mentality that WvW is just a mod….altho it is.

It’s up to you if u are dissapointed or not..but this was the big surpise. Rest will be temporary content + scarlet dead at the end most likely.

I honestly hope it isn’t…but hey it’s ANet…… I don’t really trust their writers after having experienced this scarlet story arc which achieved tragic proportions when it comes to quality and overall impact on the player.

kokiman.2364:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

kokiman.2364:

Tobias Trueflight.8350:

You know they’re not going to explain everything, what they’re going to do is wrap up Scarlet to where she’s no longer a lingering/loitering threat.

W-what? Why? And what does that even mean? They always said that later on we will understand why she did certain things.
I really hope we won’t end up asking ourselves “Hm so why exactly was [for example] Tequalt part of this?”

You’re going to have questions like that, like “so, how did Moto figure in?” and “when is the next Bazaar of the Four Winds”, and most importantly:

“What’s next for Hobo-Tron?”

Seriously that’s what I expect. The Living World concept, from what they’ve alluded to, is not meant so each season answers everything which went on within it, so they can build off it later with call backs, recurring elements of minor or major importance, and otherwise allow for some persistent threads to move through what they write later.

All we know for certain is this will finish Scarlet’s role as a threat.

In short? I expect it to be almost exactly like a season finale of Lost.

But we already had enough of that in GW1 and those questions are still unanswered :/ Welp that’s frustrating

And we had a lot of it with Lost too. And there were dangling plot/character threads at the end of various other series which never got resolved. And similarly in movies. Sometimes this was by design (Tad Williams, for one example, paraphrased: “oh I put that in there not to mean anything in the scope of the story but to let it be seen the world doesn’t start at the first page of my first book or end at the last page of the last book. It still continues." . . . )

Sometimes it’s an oversight by the writers (“We forgot all about that guy until we finished the last scene, oops”).

Sometimes it’s a writer leaving themselves room for a sequel if they ever want to. (Note, J.K. Rowling really tried not to do this with Harry Potter.)

It’s not always bad writing or failed planning.

Thalador.4218:

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

Bobby, just because an awesome story can be ruined with the ending (I’m looking at you, very first version of Mass Effect 3), doesn’t mean that an awful one can be saved by an awesome ending. Apropos “awesome ending;” judgment withheld until evidence is procured, but let’s just say I’m not… hopeful. At all.

BobbyStein.2315:

Naetell.3815:

Lessons learned here should be that writing for an MMO is completely different from how you’d approach a traditional novel.

This is definitely true. We also have to deal with the fact that simply writing something doesn’t guarantee that it will be implemented in a way that represents the original vision (if it’s even implemented). We learned a lot over the past year. I hope you all will see the difference in the next few releases. I look forward to hearing your comments late next week.

Might I direct you to Star Wars: The Old Republic, then? Quite a few lessons could be learned there about how to weave an intriguing, unique, and truly personal story that intertwines and intersects with those of the other classes (races, in GW2’s case), creating an overall story that is gripping in both scope and implementation.

SWTOR is dead, Just as this game will be if they carry on the road they are heading down.

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

You, good Sir, win the Internets for the day

BobbyStein.2315:

Naetell.3815:

Lessons learned here should be that writing for an MMO is completely different from how you’d approach a traditional novel.

This is definitely true. We also have to deal with the fact that simply writing something doesn’t guarantee that it will be implemented in a way that represents the original vision (if it’s even implemented). We learned a lot over the past year. I hope you all will see the difference in the next few releases. I look forward to hearing your comments late next week.

This excites me. Anet is definitely trying new things in terms of story progression and presentation and, as such, there’s a learning curve. The fact that they’ve listened to our “feedback” and made changes for the better is encouraging. We’ve learned more about Scarlet, the reveals are getting better, her character is getting more polished, and Anet is recognizing how to pace a story in a video game.

I have high hopes for future Living Stories. The fact that we got such a long and involved story already shows the scope of what Anet is trying to accomplish, and that’s exciting. I hope we’ll also still have smaller events here and there like we did in Southsun; events that last a few weeks, as a temporary distraction from the longer over-arcing story.

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

Excuse me if i am a bit critical here.
While the LS is your vehicle to explain why things appear in the world, the mainstory itself is still a seperate being.

While you do your best to integrate new gameplay mechanics or changes into it, there is always the danger to feel out of place.

Right now the strongest ofender is “Tequatle rising”, which so far has no connection to the overarcing storyline presented (except Rox, however so far she feels like she was only there because we declared them the most popular characters at that point).

I have to ask, is something like this something you should do, if one of the top complains about the LS is the lack of focus?

I can only imagine to get frustrated if you got your story ready, put out in line and then getting the order to somehow cram some gamemechanic in and make it fit.

are you working on a way to split these two parts enough to make them feel more natural? That the story does not feel like there are parts which we could easily cut and could have been invested in a better fleshed out story? (i am looking at you silly invasions -_-)

My level of enjoyment of current “season” LS and Scarlet aside, if I need to enter WvW (a PvP game mode separate from the point of the game) in order to see how the story is wrapping up and to even have a chance at getting whatever the “meta” achievement may be this time around, then this is yet another LS I will not be taking part in, let alone completing.

I don’t enjoy PvP in GW2. I do, however, enjoy taking part in the LS. How does forcing an Open World PvE player with no interest in PvP in GW2, but with a strong interest in the PvE story, into PvP as a requirement to see the PvE Story (or even world completion; WvW is not on the world map of Tyria, why must I go there to get world map completion?) make any sense whatsoever?

I’ve already had to completely ignore several of the LS updates due the requirement of taking part in game modes unrelated to Open World PvE (…where the story takes place) to even see the story or have a chance at the “reward”. I had to go online to get informed on the story…which is a pretty sad thing to have to do because of your decisions on implementation. If I must now miss out on the end of the story (good or bad) and whatever the ‘Token of Remembrance’/‘Story Chapter Souvenir’ for this chapter may be (“meta” reward) because of this horrible plan, then why should I bother with next “season” of LS when I know that this is the direction you have chosen to go in (forcing players from the primary game world into PvP modes just to see the story or get the souvenir/reward)?

BobbyStein.2315:

zenleto.6179:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

Mate, I hope you also have a antiflame-lined Golem suit to jump into as well. Just in case.

I don’t need one. My skin is fire resistant at this point.

Sure, but can your insides take the heat and not burst out in a cloud of imagination and rain down the hail of lore-love, creatism and joy that it is over on all flaming enemies?

style.6173:

hopefully, players can kill other players while completing this version of LS. It would be a completely new dynamic to the game and I think worth trying.

So basically play Warframe for 2 weeks, check.

BobbyStein.2315:

Naetell.3815:

Lessons learned here should be that writing for an MMO is completely different from how you’d approach a traditional novel.

This is definitely true. We also have to deal with the fact that simply writing something doesn’t guarantee that it will be implemented in a way that represents the original vision (if it’s even implemented). We learned a lot over the past year. I hope you all will see the difference in the next few releases. I look forward to hearing your comments late next week.

Would one of the main differences be that the content is now being designed around the story, rather than the story being ‘retro fitted’ to take into account content that has previously appeared in game?

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

So when is Living Story for precursors crafting and new Legendaries coming?

I am a huge supporter of the Living Story so it does worry me that I will probably miss out on this chapter. If the Edge of the Mists is configured as a player combat area, I will just have to pass on it. After getting four characters through the exploration of the WvW areas, I have zero desire to ever step foot in them again.

The problem with the Scarlet Story is that Anet thinks they’ve made this grand mystery that’s gotten the players talking. Then they come in and say “I love this theory crafting! You’re all wrong, but I love it!” And they fail to realize that we’re wrong because they’ve held the ENTIRE story for the end. What we’ve got is a 2 chapter book. Frost and fire through whatever the next update after edge of the mists is called is chapter one. Then everything’s explained to us in chapter 2. And then the story’s over. This is boring. They waited 6 weeks to release the living story to make sure they got it right, and nothing is revealed. We just have to wait till the end. If ALL the story’s at the end, we should’ve just gone to the end from the start. You don’t need to have played the living story for the past year, because nothing important has been told to us. I can only hope they’ve learned for season 2. They said they have, but only time will tell.

Just because YOU haven’t seen anything doesn’t mean it has not been there though.

We have gotten quite a bit of information during most of the releases, and the latest one had rather much information as well, so claiming that we don’t get anything until the last chapter is just blatantly false.

However someone had quote Colin as saying this patch is the lightest of all 4 in terms of LS. So for the next 2 weeks their isn’t going to be much, just more waiting.

BobbyStein.2315:

Becka Williams.4978:

The problem with the Scarlet Story is that Anet thinks they’ve made this grand mystery that’s gotten the players talking. Then they come in and say “I love this theory crafting! You’re all wrong, but I love it!” And they fail to realize that we’re wrong because they’ve held the ENTIRE story for the end. What we’ve got is a 2 chapter book. Frost and fire through whatever the next update after edge of the mists is called is chapter one. Then everything’s explained to us in chapter 2. And then the story’s over. This is boring. They waited 6 weeks to release the living story to make sure they got it right, and nothing is revealed. We just have to wait till the end. If ALL the story’s at the end, we should’ve just gone to the end from the start. You don’t need to have played the living story for the past year, because nothing important has been told to us. I can only hope they’ve learned for season 2. They said they have, but only time will tell.

Why don’t you hold your criticisms until you’ve played the content? At this point you’re all speculating on how it fits together and what you’ll be doing in the next release. We haven’t discussed the details, so most of the assumptions in this thread aren’t correct.

Well, I guess that’s fair enough. But there’s only 3 more releases, and you seem to be putting a lot of weight on to everything fitting together in the end. I hope you’re right.

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

I have a pretty low opinion of the LS, but I’ll take a shot at this:

In the current LS, people are asking “How can Scarlet build that?” Not only are they questioning where she gets her resources, but where she could build things as large as the Twisted Marionette and the flying machine above it.

Well, here’s your answer. She’s been accessing lands within the mists.

We’ll have to forgive the fact that this means she’s (once again) able to do something nobody else can do by freely creating access to new lands within the mists. In this case, it’s one more bit of Mary Sue-ness that actually works to fill a gaping plot hole. Now we know where she’s been getting her resources (thus the Watchwork mining pick that went on sale a week before this update) and where she’s been building all her toys. In the mists.

I’m going to guess that we go to the Edge of the Mists to cut off her access to the parts of the mists that she’s using. Her story is wrapping up, now’s the point where we cut off her supply routes, what she has on Tyria is enough to make it through two more updates. Meanwhile, we’ll never actually see the lands in the mists that she’s been more heavily exploiting, so they can be reintroduced as a plot point for a later LS.

style.6173:

hopefully, players can kill other players while completing this version of LS. It would be a completely new dynamic to the game and I think worth trying.

gosh I hope so, I love attacking people in the middle of a boss fight and then taking the boss for my team.

BobbyStein.2315:

zenleto.6179:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

Mate, I hope you also have a antiflame-lined Golem suit to jump into as well. Just in case.

I don’t need one. My skin is fire resistant at this point.

Applause for your fearlessness – may your armor always be kevlar and your skin always fire resistant

I don’t care how it ties together, I just want Scarlet gone. I feel like when they were tossing around ideas, someone in charge said, after many drinks, “Steampunk plantlady wizard thing and that’s it, we’re done!”

I’m hoping for something better when this is all over.

Bobby, how far ahead do you plot your story season? For example, is season 2 already outlined? Obviously I know you will evolve it and change bits as time/feedback progresses, I’m just curious if you have an overall direction already laid down for S2 and even S3.

It would be interesting post-season 1 to show the process behind how the story was conceived and put together – eg did you have this story in mind from launch? Or did it evolve later in the year? When you had the story in mind, did you know details like the Tower in Kessex Hills specifically, or would that come into play only when you designed that chapter?

Mostly I ask from a personal curiosity

Colly.4073:

Thalador.4218:

BobbyStein.2315:

gidorah.4960:

BobbyStein.2315:

You’ll have to wait and see how we integrated story into the release. I think it works pretty well but I’m biased. I am looking forward to the feedback we receive next week.

you also thought scarlet was a good villain.

I also know the entire plot a year in advance.

Bobby, just because an awesome story can be ruined with the ending (I’m looking at you, very first version of Mass Effect 3), doesn’t mean that an awful one can be saved by an awesome ending. Apropos “awesome ending;” judgment withheld until evidence is procured, but let’s just say I’m not… hopeful. At all.

BobbyStein.2315:

Naetell.3815:

Lessons learned here should be that writing for an MMO is completely different from how you’d approach a traditional novel.

This is definitely true. We also have to deal with the fact that simply writing something doesn’t guarantee that it will be implemented in a way that represents the original vision (if it’s even implemented). We learned a lot over the past year. I hope you all will see the difference in the next few releases. I look forward to hearing your comments late next week.

Might I direct you to Star Wars: The Old Republic, then? Quite a few lessons could be learned there about how to weave an intriguing, unique, and truly personal story that intertwines and intersects with those of the other classes (races, in GW2’s case), creating an overall story that is gripping in both scope and implementation.

SWTOR is dead, Just as this game will be if they carry on the road they are heading down.

I haven’t played SWTOR but by other people’s account the story element was the reason to play the game while gaming element wasn’t really worth talking about so that is still valid regardless of how dead SWTOR might be.

BobbyStein.2315:

Why don’t you hold your criticisms until you’ve played the content? At this point you’re all speculating on how it fits together and what you’ll be doing in the next release. We haven’t discussed the details, so most of the assumptions in this thread aren’t correct.

Bob, you don’t need to watch a movie or a TV series till the credits roll to find out that you don’t like the plot.

Jamais vu.5284:

Bob, you don’t need to watch a movie or a TV series till the credits roll to find out that you don’t like the plot.

There are however quite a bit of movies and series that does not make sense until the end.

So basically your loss if you decided to hate it before that point.

BobbyStein.2315:

Why don’t you hold your criticisms until you’ve played the content? At this point you’re all speculating on how it fits together and what you’ll be doing in the next release. We haven’t discussed the details, so most of the assumptions in this thread aren’t correct.

Mr Stein, we understand the story is personal to you & your staff because you worked on it. We get that. But telling us we can’t have any opinion on what we’ve played over the past year is totally unfair. I’m not sure it even makes logical sense.

That is the main issue: the CHARACTER is annoying. The back story & “mystery” doesn’t work when the end result is this annoying, out-of-place, mary-sue character. Shiro was manipulated by a greater power. The vizir was manipulated by a greater power.Varesh was mad & manipulated by a greater power. None of them were out-of-place mary sues. Even when Shiro displayed the power of the Jade wind it felt like it was a piece of a bigger puzzle & felt like it fit into the fantasy world.

knowing why a character was this annoying, out-of-place & mary-sue, doesn’t make them NOT annoying, out-of-place and mary-sue

I don’t understand why this is not considered a valid criticism. I can’t think of 1 literary, game or film character that is annoying, overpowered, unbelievable & feels out of place to the established universe for 95% of the story & then is suddenly redeemed by the last 5%. It doesn’t happen. Can you you give me an example where this has ever worked? Isn’t it possible she’s just not a well made character?

lordkrall.7241:

There are however quite a bit of movies and series that does not make sense until the end.

So basically your loss if you decided to hate it before that point.

Any story that “does not make sense until the end.” is usually so riveting & engaging that everyone is looking forward to the explanation. It’s the point of a mystery. LOST is an example were the end didn’t even matter that much since everything before it was so great. Memento is an example where it doesn’t make sense till then end, totally engrossing. To say that the Scarlet arc is following that formula is disingenuous at best.