Guild Wars 2

sorudo.9054:

in LA?
the moment they removed the GW1 LA fountain is the moment they removed the last part of GW1, GW2 is now officially unrelated to GW1.

There are plenty of places from gw1 in gw2. They are just hard to spot due to the game being a open world instead of instance based exploration.

http://projecttyria.blogspot.com/p/guild-wars.html

Aedelric.1287:

ghost.3208:

Oh and people can save their precious LA but I can’t for some of my areas?

Nope, you are the one that has said they do not care about what others like and have no interest in if gets destroyed, no one has stated the reverse for you.

I never said that I didn’t cared and you would had noticed if you read the rest of my post, instead of just picking a small part on the beginning.

Aedelric.1287:

Personally I (And likely most other GW1 vets) want all the remaining GW1 areas to stay intact, including what is left of the Crystal Desert etc.

Interesting, isn’t this what you replied to me at the beginning? Why should they be saved then?

Aedelric.1287:

Why should they be saved, just because you personally like it?

ghost.3208:

I never said that I didn’t cared

Then why are you trying to argue? Our opinions are not that far apart that we have nothing in common. All I want is to have all the old areas of GW1 to be preserved.

All you have stated that you care about is Crystal Desert and, some other place I have forgotten.

Aedelric.1287:

ghost.3208:

I never said that I didn’t cared

Then why are you trying to argue? Our opinions are not that far apart that we have nothing in common. All I want is to have all the old areas of GW1 to be preserved.

All you have stated that you care about is Crystal Desert and, some other place I have forgotten.

Because you got it wrong about what I meant, yes I want Anet to save the Desert but with my initial reply I didn’t meant it as a “I want your areas destroyed and not mine”, I was only saying that it’s interesting that they actually went and destroyed LA.

But fine you’re right, I’m not trying to argue in here and I’ll just stop posting, was just explaining my point and… “defending” myself. Good day.

ghost.3208:

I was only saying that it’s interesting that they actually went and destroyed LA.

But to many others, myself included see that is a complete disaster.

Anyway, do not get too stressed, I am sure the Crystal Desert will be mostly intact, so long as it can survive Kralkatorrik and the encroachment of Palawa Joko.

Equinox.4968:

Mega Messiah.1734:

Equinox.4968:

CETheLucid.3964:

Equinox.4968:

Anet wants to cut all of its ties with GW1.

Except they don’t.

Then why have they mostly created new lore out of whole cloth, with minimal ties to GW1 lore? Why have they failed to get into some of the truly excellent unresolved questions and plotlines from 250 years ago? They’re sitting on a gold mine of unused and unexplored ideas for content, yet they insist on ignoring it for the most part. Please explain to me how this failure to cash in on everything they set up in the first game is anything but ignoring the GW1 lore. Yes, the core game has shout-outs and references, but the Living Story has absolutely minimal ties to GW1. The only thing I can think of is the reference to the Zephyrites taking care of Glint’s remains, but that’s about it. Indeed, the alliances were highly, highly implausible under the established lore of the core game of GW2 itself. That’s just bad writing that shows that the writers are making up whatever they feel like without regard to the core game or to GW1.

Because all that stuff is 250 years old.

Things don’t usually stay incredibly relevant for over 2 centuries. It’s time for new stories with inklings of the past thrown in. I don’t want to have all of GW1’s plots come front and center unless it is actually relevant and server a purpose beyond fan service.

If they bring back the Mursaat, I want there to be a reason.
If they decide Abaddon DIDN’T die, then I want there to be a reason.
If the Dwarves suddenly make their triumphant return from the Depths of Tyria, I want there to be a reason.

What I don’t want is for these things to happen and have them just be pandering to a fan base that played their first game. That’s why we had the first games in the first place: to tell those stories. Those unresolved questions – like the Mursaat and the fate of Cantha and Palawa Joko in Elona – might get resolved in the future, but as it stands right now, there’s no reason to bring two hundred year old stories back to the lime light unless they mesh with the newer stories being told.

I want for there to be valid story reasons for bringing these things in too. Pandering to a fanbase just to gain favor with them should be avoided. But what I’m asking is why Anet hasn’t even touched its existing lore, and instead has pulled 95% of the Living Story out of thin air.

Imagine writing a bestselling novel. Then you write a sequel that builds upon the original and has shout-outs to the events and characters of the first book. Then you come up with a direct sequel to the second book, but instead of using the old story and characters, you create entirely new characters, ignore or clumsily retcon the story of the first two books, and ultimately come up with a plot that is barely connected to the first two books at all.

Example:

Book 1 is set in late medieval Europe, and the main character, A, is a knight. An invading army is threatening his country (Country), so he works with B, C, and D against the evil machinations of X. A wins, but B dies.

Book 2 is set in early renaissance Europe, and the main character, G, is a nobleman the son of A. He is joined by H and I, the descendants of B and C, as well as D (who is really old at this point) in a quest to discover who’s trying to overthrow the government of Country. There are shout-outs to the past events from Book 1, but the plot is different enough to be interesting while retaining the popular aspects of Book 1 that got the series going.

Book 3 takes place right after Book 2, but G steps down from his noble title and becomes a police officer, the supporting cast in this book is 100% new and unrelated to the previous characters, H, and D are completely absent, and only I is present in a one-paragraph cameo. The plot this time involves G hunting down tax evaders (which is nothing compared to the epic scope of the first books). Plot elements from Book 2 are outright ignored, or otherwise characters’ statements directly contradict what was clearly established in the previous works. The only similarity between Book 2 and Book 3 is that they take place in the same country and feature the same protagonist, G. Other than that, Book 3 has no plot connections to Book 2.

Have you read Piers Anthony’s Xanth novels? They get disconnected real quick.

Just me or this is like an incredible opportunity to make an LA 2.0, in the regard of a completely new layout with up to date construction and technology?

LA got destroyed once and left to rot for a while. With the pirates it was slowly rebuilt from the wreckage and only then expanded as resources were available until it achieved the status of neutral trading hub.
The money/people influx from trading made the city grow, though the lack of planning results in several disparities in buildings architecture and placing.

Now with a little help from all the races and the orders it should be possible to create a kind of city-fortress that could withstand the future threats that are coming and also act as the headquarters for the races offensive plans.

DarcShriek.5829:

Have you read Piers Anthony’s Xanth novels? They get disconnected real quick.

But that series is based on that concept of disconnectedness, randomness, and things being made up on the fly to create zany, wacky, and unpredictable adventures. GW2 is meant to be a sequel to GW1, and the LS is (or at least I assume it is) meant to follow what transpired in the core GW2 experience. The randomness that defines the Xanth series is entirely out of place in the Living Story in GW2.

I feel like they did a pretty decent job putting in old relics from GW1. Things don’t match up perfectly most of the time, but that’s to be expected. We can blame massive tidal waves and a higher ocean level for a lot of it. The rest is just meticulous map alignment. What I’d like to see though is more stuff actually PERTAINING to these old relics. I like moving ahead. It’s all nice and fun, but I fell in love with GW lore because of the rich back story that is never ever spoken of anymore. It’s a somewhat unpopular opinion, I think, but in GW1, I absolutely loved Nightfall, because while it was dealing with current events, it explained a LOT about Tyria’s past. These days it just seems like the maps simply have these relics and locations just to reassure you that it IS the same world, but nothing else. “Here lies the remains of Granite Citadel” Cool. What happened there? Why’s it so important? Why was it abandoned? Can we use it today? “Who cares! Shiny Sylvari boss fight time!” With the dragons being ancient things always existing in Tyria, and their ties with ancient races, you’d think you’d see mor references to the past. And less silly Scarlet coloured distractions (although, I did like the Scarlet story. )

sorudo.9054:

in LA?
the moment they removed the GW1 LA fountain is the moment they removed the last part of GW1, GW2 is now officially unrelated to GW1.

Other than, you know, charr, asura, mesmers, eles, divinity’s reach, ascalon, etc etc.

That statement and others like it is REALLY reaching there.

sorudo.9054:

Aidan Savage.2078:

sorudo.9054:

in LA?
the moment they removed the GW1 LA fountain is the moment they removed the last part of GW1, GW2 is now officially unrelated to GW1.

So… the Norn, Asura, Humans, Charr, every single location in the game, even some of the enemies, that are the exact same as they were in GW1, dont relate the two games?

People forget that there’s been something like 2-3 centuries that pass between the timepoints the games take place in. The GW2 LA was already nearly unrelated to the GW1 LA when it was drowned by the raising of Orr.

Also, HoM. Just sayin.

firstly, EotN was added in response of GW2, no GW2 and you would’ve never seen the 3 other races.
also, what places?
there is not even a hint of ascalon, droknar, hedge of denravi, temple of the ages (and no, the swamp isn’t ToA, the statues are not even the same and they are not on the same location) so unless you have even a shred of evidence they are still there, i take it with a grain of salt.

oh and the 250 years is a poor excuse, there are buildings of about 5000 years ago that still stand today IRL yet in GW2 nothing is left, a game only 250 years later.

And yet, the world of today is utterly different than the world of 250 or 5000 years ago. Bring forward a native of that far past to today, and they would not recognize the world we live in, familiar buildings standing or not.

And those buildings you mention weren’t ravaged by sinkings of entire kingdoms, ravages of dragons, etc. Their world is FAR more violent than ours is, excepting nuclear weapons and the like.

its a fictional city in a video game franchise..

I’ve had more fun jumping through the wreckage this week than i had the first week of exploring LA a year and a half ago (and nearly 10 yrs ago in GW1)…….the vistas are different, the scenery is interesting in a post-apocalyptic way (looters/workers/wreckage to climb on..etc)…….i like that Anet is willing to alter areas based on story/events.

now if they’d just adjust their 2-week schedule to 1 LS patch a month alternating with one balance/bug-fixing patch a month, i’d have a hard time complaining.

and love the new vista (almost JP worthy) by Trader’s Forum Waypoint…

http://pic20.picturetrail.com/VOL161/1538330/2940054/409044966.jpg

Katastrofi.5816:

And yet… life goes on…

people carry on with their daily lives…

Flameseeker.1563:

Just me or this is like an incredible opportunity to make an LA 2.0, in the regard of a completely new layout with up to date construction and technology?

LA got destroyed once and left to rot for a while. With the pirates it was slowly rebuilt from the wreckage and only then expanded as resources were available until it achieved the status of neutral trading hub.
The money/people influx from trading made the city grow, though the lack of planning results in several disparities in buildings architecture and placing.

Now with a little help from all the races and the orders it should be possible to create a kind of city-fortress that could withstand the future threats that are coming and also act as the headquarters for the races offensive plans.

I’m definitely excited about the opportunity for a new and better LA, and I’m sure Anet is going to come up with a very innovative and interesting way to rebuild it. My issue is that they had to destroy the relics from the past that tied the new Lion’s Arch to the old Lion’s Arch of GW1. To me, it’s the same problem the Living Story has: Anet consistently adds new content at the expense of the past. The Living Story, to me at least, seemed wasted because it was mostly content that was limited to certain periods of time, after which newcomers or latecomers could NEVER access that content in its original form, ever again. Sure, there are new fractals for historical content, but we will NEVER be able to see the Aetherblade Retreat or the Molten Facility exactly as they were—only snippets. Here, destroying LA is fine in my book, but couldn’t they have left the GW1 historical landmarks intact while doing so? I don’t see why they have to destroy the past to make room for the future, when both can coexist.

In other games, the core game could be given a value of 1.0, and new content would be smaller—.01, 0.1, 0.25, etc. Most games simply keep adding to the core game—over time, the overall experience will be 1.5, 2.75, and so forth. In GW2, I feel that the “additions” brought about by Living Story content, at least until recently, haven’t actually added anything. For every 0.1 that gets added, 0.09 gets taken away. The next 0.2 only really “adds” .02 to the overall game experience, and the rest is essentially thrown away, never to be seen again. I have a problem with that; in GW1, I could experience ALL of the content ever created for the game (minus seasonal festivals) at my own pace, at any time I chose, with no restrictions. Here, you have to enjoy content while it lasts, because it may NEVER appear again. That seems pretty wasteful.

But back on track, I feel that the destruction of Old LA is representative of this problem, and that Anet’s choice to further damage the few remaining ruins of the old city is pointless and backwards.

Originally there where only human and charr which both were introduced in the prophecies campaign, the tangu and Naga where introduced in factions, I forgot what was introduced in Nightfall, Eye of the North introduced Norn and Asura (Vekk as the first asura you see, Jora as the first norn you see) and Guild Wars 2 Brought us the Sylvari and made more then just human playable. My point here is Gw1 still has connections to Gw2 in the form of the races, mobs, and various other small details.

moonboy.1069:

Originally there where only human and charr which both were introduced in the prophecies campaign, the tangu and Naga where introduced in factions, I forgot what was introduced in Nightfall, Eye of the North introduced Norn and Asura (Vekk as the first asura you see, Jora as the first norn you see) and Guild Wars 2 Brought us the Sylvari and made more then just human playable. My point here is Gw1 still has connections to Gw2 in the form of the races, mobs, and various other small details.

It’s not the other connections I’m concerned about. It’s the connections between GW1 and GW2-era LA, which are now on the verge of disappearing entirely in light of the destruction wrought by Scarlet’s invasion. The only extant structure from GW1 that survived into GW2, the old lighthouse, is now gone, and it was one of THE main landmarks of the city in both eras. It was damaged in the Karka attack of November 2012—and that’s fine—but its outright removal bothers me quite a bit because it makes me feel that Anet no longer cares about preserving ties to GW1 as of the release of the Living Story. The core game had plenty of references in it, but since then we’ve seen virtually nothing, and since the Living Story makes up the present and future of the game, that’s a worrying thought for someone like me.

Look at GW1: EOTN. Despite introducing many new races, enemies, and places, there were TONS of references to the core GW1 games, particularly in the dungeons and many of the quests. GW1: Beyond also grounded itself in the core games’ lore while looking forward to the status quo at the time of GW2. The Living Story, on the other hand, has brought up entirely new things with scarcely any ties to the core GW2 game or GW1.

Equinox.4968:

-snip-

TL;DR
You have a thing for the remnants of old-LA.

Good news! It’s still there. It’s been tossed around, but the ruins are surprisingly intact for the most part. Old-LA is still down there. See for yourself.

Are we about done here?

Since we’ve gone off topic anyway and you’re on about how the LS doesn’t reference GW1 enough, in addition to the Zephyrites and their ties to Glint…

Didn’t you consider this event in of itself?

Don’t you think it kind of strange that in all of the places in LA that Scarlet could have started her drilling, she picked the approximate spot of the ruins of old-LA?

She could have picked any other spot along the leyline, but there could be significance with regards to the old-LA spot.

Old-LA has a long and interesting history and the fact that it sits atop of leyline surely isn’t a coincidence.

Do you remember the beginning of GWEN? The huge caverns below LA? Something to think about.

CETheLucid.3964:

Are we about done here?

No. It’s a matter of principle. I’m not against change or shaking things up, but I don’t like what Anet’s choice to further destroy the already-ruined remnants of old LA because of what it represents with respect to their vision for the game.

Equinox.4968:

No. It’s a matter of principle. I’m not against change or shaking things up, but I don’t like what Anet’s choice to further destroy the already-ruined remnants of old LA because of what it represents with respect to their vision for the game.

You’re misguided. I’m pretty sure I can’t help you. So, well, I’m sorry you feel that way in spite of old-LA still being there?

/shrug

I tried.

CETheLucid.3964:

Equinox.4968:

No. It’s a matter of principle. I’m not against change or shaking things up, but I don’t like what Anet’s choice to further destroy the already-ruined remnants of old LA because of what it represents with respect to their vision for the game.

You’re misguided. I’m pretty sure I can’t help you. So, well, I’m sorry you feel that way in spite of old-LA still being there?

/shrug

I tried.

The lighthouse isn’t there, and what’s left of old LA is barely even there anymore. The wreckage of the Breachmaker takes up half of the old area.

Equinox.4968:

The lighthouse isn’t there, and what’s left of old LA is barely even there anymore. The wreckage of the Breachmaker takes up half of the old area.

Indeed, they could have dropped the Breachmaker anywhere but they chose the ruins specifically.

I am not sure what is worse, they picked it because of the sentimental attachment people have and wanted to elicit an emotional response or they targeted it because they really dislike the previous lore in GW1.

Either way destroying almost all of what is left in a year and a half has only severed to annoy me somewhat, enough is enough, stop destroying old regions Arena Net!

Wow, looks like Anet’s plan is working perfectly.

Seriously, people have an attachment to LA as the icon from GW1, with GW2 players also using it as the hub city, so what better target than LA to get the players to have an emotional response, and it has worked. It will be interesting to see what they do in regards to repairing that area, along with the rest of the city, but they knew where to hit.

As for all this BS about retconning and such, where? I haven’t seen much in the way of retcons, and as far as stuff left off in the past, who knows where it will pop up. There are small tidbits everywhere from in game (been to the Vizier’s Tower? ) and external literature (hmmm, so the Mursaat, Seers, Forgotten and Dwarves took on the dragons last time around…), plus as stated, they are sitting on a craptonne of stuff, not to mention quite a bit of Tyria hasn’t been seen yet, let alone Cantha nor Elona. There is a lot of potential for surprises

We still have memories my friend. Any no matter how hard they may try, they can never be taken from us.

I find the destruction of LA similar to the old pre-searing ascalon.

How many of us were expecting for that level of destruction when we had barely knew how to play?
I fought too many charr with my flare spam necro and MM ranger until it seemed reasonable to change builds (not one of my proudest achievements in gw1…).

Still, Pre was an area that was later unreachable and it left so many good memories that i would guess a good portion of the players had a perma-pre char.

It is a pity we probably won’t see the old GW2 LA and for new players, that know little or nothing about the story so far, they won’t understand the impact of all the cities change but life goes on and i hope that the new city at least leaves a memorial of the even older GW1 times.

Yup, I still have a perma-pre ranger.

Equinox.4968:

The lighthouse isn’t there, and what’s left of old LA is barely even there anymore. The wreckage of the Breachmaker takes up half of the old area.

Old-LA is down there and even the remains of the Old-LA lighthouse can be found at the bottom of the harbor near Lion’s Gate.

There’s even a hidden tunnel in the ruins of Old-LA that’ll take you right to it. The wreckage didn’t even bury it.

It’s all still down there.

CETheLucid.3964:

Equinox.4968:

The lighthouse isn’t there, and what’s left of old LA is barely even there anymore. The wreckage of the Breachmaker takes up half of the old area.

Old-LA is down there and even the remains of the Old-LA lighthouse can be found at the bottom of the harbor near Lion’s Gate.

There’s even a hidden tunnel in the ruins of Old-LA that’ll take you right to it. The wreckage didn’t even bury it.

It’s all still down there.

The fact it was destroyed at all proves the point, the rubble still being present does not really make things better does it?

Hold up, you mean after 250 years and being razed twice, a place changes?!
Sarcasm aside, there’s only so much you can do when you refuse to move forward. If you really want gw1’s LA, log on to gw1. If you want to see what becomes of LA in 251 years of Tryia’s history, play gw2.

Aedelric.1287:

CETheLucid.3964:

Equinox.4968:

The lighthouse isn’t there, and what’s left of old LA is barely even there anymore. The wreckage of the Breachmaker takes up half of the old area.

Old-LA is down there and even the remains of the Old-LA lighthouse can be found at the bottom of the harbor near Lion’s Gate.

There’s even a hidden tunnel in the ruins of Old-LA that’ll take you right to it. The wreckage didn’t even bury it.

It’s all still down there.

The fact it was destroyed at all proves the point, the rubble still being present does not really make things better does it?

Old-LA is still down there, more or less in the same condition it was prior to the Scarlet invasion, moved around a bit, place is a bit messier with wreckage about.

That goes without saying, does it not?

You blow up a massive drilling ship thing, there’s gonna be wreckage everywhere. Most of Old-LA survived the fiasco.

With exception to the Old-LA lighthouse that was broken first in the karka event and finished off in the Scarlet attack.

Of which the remains are not buried or wholly ‘gone’, but can be visited.

That’s one thing out of everything else, the majority of Old-LA, that is still down there where it was.

You don’t have a point to argue. And that’s just Old-LA. There are dozens of other remains and places from GW1 in GW2. But with people like you, I’m wasting my time.

My solace is in the fact that other people are reading and are maybe interested in some of these things instead of being wholly dismissive.

…

Well, that and it’s endlessly entertaining what fantastical reply I’ll get from people who choose to ignore reason or the facts of a thing.

It’s never boring. I never get that short “oh, you’re right lol that’s neat” reply. You just keep raising a squirming wall of nonsense, and I dunno.

Maybe I’m weird to find that funny or take interest in that. It’s like reading a tabloid I suppose.

Oh, hey! I stand corrected.

CETheLucid.3964:

It’s never boring. I never get that short “oh, you’re right lol that’s neat” reply.

andrew.1798:

CETheLucid.3964:

<snip>

Kalavier.1097:

<snip>

You are both correct. I went to check it out again myself. <3 My apologies

Not a problem, you’re very welcome. You’re rare. Never change. <3

I somehow wish they would escavate these parts, get them to the surface and use them in creating new parts of the town (in similiar areas. like using the lion steps on the rocks to create a way up into the destroyed area)
or put them in a safe and secure “museum” so they are out of harms way.
I mean, the priory is around and i bet them or the asura will build some kind of laboratory in the vacancy since there is the ley line leaking and directly accessable

I think their presentation of old areas is different. We are used to it feeling like a linear path from GW1, when it is now an open area. After seeing some of the pictures, i can see the resembalance of the old locations, I guess I was just hoping for less of a drastic change. The references to GW1 are more subtle, and the landscape has changed.

I guess i was expecting a reworked version of the GW1 maps.

I can totally understand being worried bout GW1 relics getting destroyed. One of the first things I did during Escape from LA and in the Aftermath was to go check on the ruins.

That said, I cannot understand those who decry GW2 as completely divorced from GW1 lore. Pretty much every major race and character has had their story concluded and evolved naturally, almost all of which is found in game. And moreover, cataclysmic dragon risings aside, the world has evolved in very comparable way to earth.

I mean really consider if Earth history was featured in this way. Having one game set in revolutionary-war era Boston and having the sequel set 250 years later in modern day Boston would be quite a shock as well. Or a more comparable example might 1500’s England, still transitioning out of the middle ages to the Reniassance, then jump forward 250 years and you’re in the middle of the Industrial Revolution. That’s a massive shift as well.

Mia Lunarfang.5826:

Well, the turrain and cities have evolved over time through nature, dragon catastophies, and its various races expansion/withdrawl but with these considerations noted, gw2 matches gw1 perfectly http://zoom.it/TWLx#full

That is just cool. It does match perfectly.
Perhaps sometime in 2068 we will see those parts of the map in GW2 that are still left in the fog.