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Posted by: Stormcrow.7513

Stormcrow.7513

The point is that we need a WAY better story for LS S2

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Posted by: Shiren.9532

Shiren.9532

Keep that your point, try to leave out names of employees. You can discuss the story without making it about the individual (even though praise doesn’t work that way).

If the attempt is to make the story less human centric two of new team wouldn’t be humans, the Captain’s Council member we follow around wouldn’t be human, the chosen meet up location for the new team wouldn’t be in the human capital, and if Marjory’s sister is anything to go by, a future story is going to follow the Seraph (humans) into Brisban. We had a story for over a year dealing with a sylvari villain yet we had no sylvari protagonists, we never spent any time in the grove (aside from one piece of dialogue with the Pale Tree) and we spent far more time dealing with the Queen and Krytan politics than we did exploring anything to do with the sylvari. The story so far has been very human centric despite good reasons to be exploring the sylvari instead.

As far as the Pact’s involvement in this whole thing, Laranthir appeared in Lion’s Arch. Despite sourcing their members from the three Order which were involved and located close to the chaos and despite all of Tyria relying on Lion’s Arch as a trade hub, Trahearne didn’t want to send anyone to check things out because he’s too good for anything that’s not a dragon.

For real? The Pact is lead by a guy who sends our armies out to front lines and completely ignores the enemy forces inside our own city? What was Trahearne going to do if Scarlet wasn’t stopped? Did Evon start marketing the idiot ball on the Trading Post and it’s this new popular craze in Tyria?

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

Ehh, ok, even if no amount of defenses would save LA, it dosen’t mean that ther should be none, right?
And the ideology that PACT was established to fight of dragons so they have no reason to do ANYTHING other than that, is like saying that POLICE was established to fight of crimes and enforce law so they have no reason to help citizens that are in danger, thats one BIG BS right ther.
AND FFS!!! we ARE a 2nd in command in PACT, why anyone from PACT didn’t even bothered to help us, lets forget the fact that we didnt even bothered to ask for asistance from soldiers that are under us, and that was an all out invasion to both.

Ther is a limit to lack of sense in a story, and gw2 went overboard with it

I’m saying even if there was defenses in place (which I agree, the captain’s council is dumb to deny), LA would be ruined from debris.
ALSO. IF the Pact marched into LA and set up camp, the Captains council and citizens would see it as an unwanted military occupation. They never asked for help.
If we asked Trahearne for help, and he asked the council, and the majority vote of council was “Nope, we need no help as of this moment, thanks for concern!” he wouldn’t march forces up there. Local Order forces helped us plenty.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Calys Teneb.7015

Calys Teneb.7015

Qawsada:
There may be reasons for that, despite how you feel. Leading a campaign against a developer PERSONALLY because you dislike their work generally doesn’t garner much sympathy, even if the populace may agree with some of your points. That hasn’t gone well in other gaming communities, and isn’t likely to be well received here either.

(edited by Calys Teneb.7015)

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Posted by: Qawsada.4251

Qawsada.4251

Gw1 isn’t retconned.

Yes it was. 5 days added into the calendar only show how the LS writer didn’t bother looking up the GW 1 wiki. Saying how the event in GW 1 doesn’t matter because the human gods are nothing more than glorified mages is also crap. There are reasons and there is bull pulling.

Qawsada:
There may be reasons for that, despite how you feel. Leading a campaign against a developer PERSONALLY because you dislike their work generally doesn’t garner much sympathy, even if the populace may agree with some of your points. That hasn’t gone well in other gaming communities, and isn’t likely to be well received here either.

Watching my favorite game getting horrific content and content that retcon or leave plot holes or create a mary sue character can leave me so much in terms of reasoning with them. I complain how badly the story has gone and I rather they hired a different writer than the “writer” we have now. GW 1 was build in integrity and its all torn down thanks to that hack. Of course, she is not the only one that is tearing down GW 2.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

Ehh, ok, even if no amount of defenses would save LA, it dosen’t mean that ther should be none, right?
And the ideology that PACT was established to fight of dragons so they have no reason to do ANYTHING other than that, is like saying that POLICE was established to fight of crimes and enforce law so they have no reason to help citizens that are in danger, thats one BIG BS right ther.
AND FFS!!! we ARE a 2nd in command in PACT, why anyone from PACT didn’t even bothered to help us, lets forget the fact that we didnt even bothered to ask for asistance from soldiers that are under us, and that was an all out invasion to both.

Ther is a limit to lack of sense in a story, and gw2 went overboard with it

I’m saying even if there was defenses in place (which I agree, the captain’s council is dumb to deny), LA would be ruined from debris.
ALSO. IF the Pact marched into LA and set up camp, the Captains council and citizens would see it as an unwanted military occupation. They never asked for help.
If we asked Trahearne for help, and he asked the council, and the majority vote of council was “Nope, we need no help as of this moment, thanks for concern!” he wouldn’t march forces up there. Local Order forces helped us plenty.

The thing is that it doesn’t matter if LA would survive or not with defenses in place, thats not the point, what matter is that ther were none. Im not somekind of strategis or a general, i wasnt even in the army, and yet if i were to be attacked 3 times i would know that i need to be prepered for possible 4th attack, i think its common sense.

And whether LA wanted help or not is also beside the point, Scarlet was endangering whole Tyria, even if she didn’t aim to wake up dragons she had military potential to conquer lots of Tyria territories, she even had a weapon of mass destruction capable of killing anything one wide scale, PACT would intervene even if LA refused any aid, especialy seeing that LA lost the initial fight.

Also, Scarlet attacked many other area before invadeing LA, so threat of Scarlet’s army was not only LA problem.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: CharrGirl.7896

CharrGirl.7896

Note to self: Never, ever build an entire city out of wood.

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Posted by: Treebeard The Swift.9620

Treebeard The Swift.9620

I think basically it boils down to – we expected a story that would be intriguing and fairly believable. we were silly to expect anything beyond zergable content and new shinies.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

I think basically it boils down to – we expected a story that would be intriguing and fairly believable. we were silly to expect anything beyond zergable content and new shinies.

It’s sad but i guess that’s how it is. I dont know if Anet thinks that a bit of realism in gw2 would kill the fun, but from my point of view and from what i have experienced in LA 1 hour before the invasion patch, the realism bit would increas the fun by quite a lot.
I mean, on my home server, of which RP players r only 5% of the total player population, we had a intense discussion about what would be the progress of the invasion, what would be the 1st target of the attack or how Tyria organizations will react, u know the tactical stuff, im not an RP player myself and most of the others that took part in the discussion also weren’t but i still had fun, it felt like a real life preperation for possible invasion, but we make a fatal mistake ther, we used common sense and logic in the discussion.
I’m not saying that the invasion itself was bad, it was fun but the logic behind the action of groups involved in the invasion, mainly various organizations of Tyria, was beyond anyone comprehension, as i said it was fun and enjoyable but you still had that “really?…” thought in the back of your mind.

It’s the same on this forum with all the theory crafting threads, people create various theories about possible conclusions of the cureent event or its progress, but they always use logic or common sense when they make them, and as a result when story writer drop down an ilogical and incomprehensible plot-flashbang grenade everyone get confused, and most of the time the thread itself die or people start a flame war with that story writer as the target.

I know that hoping for a bit of realism or logic from a fantasy game looks silly, but without it the game plot or even the game itself become medicore.

Fantasy world have it’s own reality bound by logic, common sense and rules of the nature(law of physics etc.) of that world.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

The thing is that it doesn’t matter if LA would survive or not with defenses in place, thats not the point, what matter is that ther were none. Im not somekind of strategis or a general, i wasnt even in the army, and yet if i were to be attacked 3 times i would know that i need to be prepered for possible 4th attack, i think its common sense.

And whether LA wanted help or not is also beside the point, Scarlet was endangering whole Tyria, even if she didn’t aim to wake up dragons she had military potential to conquer lots of Tyria territories, she even had a weapon of mass destruction capable of killing anything one wide scale, PACT would intervene even if LA refused any aid, especialy seeing that LA lost the initial fight.

Also, Scarlet attacked many other area before invadeing LA, so threat of Scarlet’s army was not only LA problem.

LA is a city that is naturally hard to defend. You can’t build walls because of the layout of the land, cliffs and water etc. You can’t truly block of the enterances, because they need them open and easy to travel by trade. You can’t truly defend from the air without causing damage to the city.

LA has basically sat there with Claw Island delaying or defeating any true threat (The Risen mainly, by naval attack). Each attack was different.
A: Risen, delayed by Claw Island, repelled. Orders and Lionguard retake Claw Island and then the Pact forms and pushes the Risen back.
B: Karka, repelled by Lionguard, driven to Southsun and the ancient Karka defeated.
C: Aetherblade raid, defeated, their hideout destroyed and airship stolen for Lionguard.

Captain’s council may be foolish, but somewhat true in a second raid by Scarlet’s forces would be perhaps unlikely. Usually if one attack fails, you don’t attack again. The Massive air raid is a brand new tactic for GW universe.

If she had taken out LA, and nobody got close to defeating her, yes, perhaps the Pact would intervene. However, notice how the orders were heavily involved. Orders that can quickly relay a message to Fort trinity aka, Pact headquarters. They likely kept him updated and that’s how they learned of the connection (Laranthir mentions Priory researchers). The orders helped heavily and they make up the strength of the Pact, So in a sense at most they lacked the Pact’s heavy gear (Siege golems, cannons, airships), and leadership, but the military manpower was there.

Also, occupying LA would set negatives tones worldwide. Other capitals may become uneasy about the Pact simply marching in and setting up base without any permission.

AGAIN, it takes a while to mobilize an army, ESPECIALLY an army stretched out across a nation, busy fighting throughout the entire nation, and with airships scattered all over the region fighting dragon champions or other air threats. It’s not going to be quick and easy to recall forces, or make sure they have enough on the field to not loose ground, but enough pulled to make a difference. And then there is travel time. Unlike gameplay, I doubt you can run from Vigil Keep to LA in 10 minutes or less. Likewise, it probably would take anywhere from a day to several days to fly from Orr to LA. The way it’s implied is that Laranthir and crew arrived not long after the breachmaker exploded. And the battle with Scarlet likely wasn’t too long after her first assault on LA with Miasma. I doubt there WAS the time to mobilize the pact to respond to the invasion of LA.

Also, each nation’s military is likely stronger then the Lionguard. You know, on basis of being nations instead of a city and havens on trade posts. Bar Norn of course, but Norn don’t need armies. If they formed an army the enemy would be simply kittened.

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Posted by: Cormac.3871

Cormac.3871

To reply to the OP, the problem is that we have a Living Story trying to coexist with a traditional static story. Has Orr been cleansed. For my main it has, but not for any of the other characters. For half of them the pact hasn’t yet been formed. Well, OK, they do if you go down to Orr, but they won’t form until later in the personal story. Clearly this is a problem with the personal story, and therefore something impossible to shoehorn into Living Story while making sense, as it doesn’t make sense at the moment.

I like the concept behind LS, that of a changing world with lasting changes to the landscape. No, it hasn’t been perfectly implemented, but I still prefer the way LS has impacted (toxic alliance and Aetherblade remnants, collapse marionette etc.) to the main story (Orr before cleansing = Orr after cleansing).

As for the writing, I would say it is a little better that the personal story, but just as patchy. Taimi and Braham together rock. Scarlet is an OK character in the cracked genius mould (not really a straight Mary Sue, though people really like saying she is) whose motives have not been fully explained, but there are enough clues to speculate on if you have been paying attention. The film noir section though just didn’t do it for me.

As for the singling out of individual writers here, that has some nasty echoes of an incident centring around a Bioware writer a few years ago, let’s not go down that path.

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

It’s not just a writer’kitten she has to wear. It’s a GM’kitten, as if it was planning a tabletop game. She’s responsible not just for writing the lore but making sure it can be put into the game, and that the parts are in proper placement for it to work. You sometimes have a villain who is paper-thin because the game requires it to set up something else.

. . . but then, Scarlet isn’t exactly paper-thin or out of reach of what we can understand. Once we put together what we have outside of the game (the short story) with what was worked together inside of it, we see what happened. And we can see most of why she acted as she did.

She wanted the drill and she wanted to make sure she had the time needed for it to operate as she needed it to. Which was to poke and disrupt the ley lines to stir up a dragon. Why she wished to do that is less clear, but it’s theorized she was fighting its influence on her and it was done to get that thing to stop. I could stretch further but that’s deduction without a net and I’m not doing that today.

Back to the other hat of a GM. Scarlet had to serve a function for the story, and to do that she needed to have certain powers and resources. So she has them, simply because it must be so.

(Don’t pretend this wasn’t done before, either, because there is no excuse for how Varesh or Kahyet had known about Abaddon, but they needed to in order for the plot to make sense. This didn’t start with this particular writer and it goes back to Prophecies too . . . like how Vizier Khilbron has the ability to bamf in and out teleporting and nobody has that ability otherwise in the narrative.)

Scarlet has to have the pieces so the backwards working needs to be done to get her the pieces. She needs a means of keeping people out of Lion’s Arch, so the miasma has to be made to exist. She needs shock troops to keep people busy, so she has the Twisted Watchwork . . . or the steam creatures if the Watchknights hadn’t existed, since we know she studied those too. She needs highly mobile forces to hit and fade quickly, so the Aetherblades were cultivated – initially intended to get on the Council and keep it confused/distracted. (Luckily, they were just as idiotic as the Pirate Lords were in “At World’s End” but that’s a long long digression of stupidity .) She needs tools to dig quickly and pierce magic, which is where the dredge/Flame Legion got cultivated . . . and she started with them since they also could be used to mine resources she needed to get the Breachmaker built. (“How did she get that thing built?” Well, consider how big the cave of the Molten Weapons Facility was, and how much metal was there. Consider it’s implied there wasn’t only one. Realize the dredge are really good at mining. She had the means, and she had the time to put it together.)

This fits together better than people are willing to agree upon because of the way it got introduced and placed before us as small splinters of something which was made into a big deal later. But if you look at it from building it backwards by deciding she had X and then deciding how she had to get it? It starts making some sense.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.

(edited by Moderator)

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

LA is a city that is naturally hard to defend. You can’t build walls because of the layout of the land, cliffs and water etc. You can’t truly block of the enterances, because they need them open and easy to travel by trade. You can’t truly defend from the air without causing damage to the city…

^^^Had to cut a bit, not enough space.
(for full quote refer to earlier post)

Ok, first of all, LA is in good defensive position, its surounded by mountains and have only small enterance to sea which is protected by Claw island, from land and sea its a freaking bunker, no one in a right mind would try to attack it from these sides, the only blind spot is air as LA have no AA defenses and underwater as ther is no submarines at Claw(karka invasion proved that).
Also LA was attacked by other threats than Scarlet in the past, and even if they won anyone would think that if something happened once or more times it can happen again and yet LA council didnt do anything to improve defenses, once again Scarlet first attack on LA wasnt the only attack that LA experienced, no matter
how reta**ed Council is, they would improve protection of the city, especialy the air and underwater area of LA.
I have no experience with war, army or protection of the city and yet i understand that simple fact, while Council members that r suposed to be experienced in that area can’t even comprehend it, this story part is beyond stupid.

And once again, Scarlet wasn’t only LA problem, she was a threat to whole Tyria, and she had proven that by her earlier invasions on almost all of the maps, by that time PACT would have already prepered for her, especialy since Aetherblade stole some of the PACT Airships, and they are the only one that have any chance in fighting Scarlet’s army in the air, even more so that LA was unprotected from air attacks.
From her earlier world wide attacks, looking at the size of her army, anyone with half brain would figure out that LA have no chance in fighting Scarlet.

Also, Orders are a military organization themselfs and they are not part of LA just like PACT, and yet they were heavly involved in the LA defense, so why would PACT help be frown upon?

Btw, what do you mean by “occupying”, was PACT working with Scarlet? Order’s been helping during the invasion and they didnt have to occupy anything.

And yea, prepering and sending out reinforcements would take time BUT ONLY if PACT were unaware of Scarlet action. As i said she did a massive invasions throu the world on almost all maps, she even send out a huge flying weapon of mass destruction and it was long before invasion on LA, dont forget that we, the 2nd in command in PACT, were ther and we even had checked her lair and found out her plans of invasion on LA, are you trying to tell me that we had kept that important information away from the PACT?

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

LA is a city that is naturally hard to defend. You can’t build walls because of the layout of the land, cliffs and water etc. You can’t truly block of the enterances, because they need them open and easy to travel by trade. You can’t truly defend from the air without causing damage to the city…

^^^Had to cut a bit, not enough space.
(for full quote refer to earlier post)

Ok, first of all, LA is in good defensive position, its surounded by mountains and have only small enterance to sea which is protected by Claw island, from land and sea its a freaking bunker,

A: Those passes are narrow yes, and the Sea (Which it relies on Claw Island to stop invasions), HOWEVER, once they get past those chokepoints it is IMPOSSIBLE to hold the city without heavy fore-warning (Aka, what the orders did after Claw Island fell because they had advance warning). You have no way of completely blocking the enemy from approaches.

Also LA was attacked by other threats than Scarlet in the past, and even if they won anyone would think that if something happened once or more times it can happen again and yet LA council didnt do anything to improve defenses, *

Overconfidence. And often if one attack fails, the enemy doesn’t charge in again. A foolish mistake, but not completely unreasonable. Also when Scarlet attacked she had far less forces (as they saw it) then the force that attacked LA. Back then they just saw Aetherblades, not all three groups working together.

And once again, Scarlet wasn’t only LA problem, she was a threat to whole Tyria, and she had proven that by her earlier invasions on almost all of the maps, by that time PACT would have already prepered for her, especialy since Aetherblade stole some of the PACT Airships, and they are the only one that have any chance in fighting Scarlet’s army in the air, even more so that LA was unprotected from air attacks.
From her earlier world wide attacks, looking at the size of her army, anyone with half brain would figure out that LA have no chance in fighting Scarlet.

It takes a long time to mobilize and recall forces covering a nation worth of land, especially a semi-contested nation. By the time they would’ve gathered a force to retake LA, the battle would’ve been over (Scarlet taking it and Lionguard and orders counter attacking).

Also, Orders are a military organization themselfs and they are not part of LA just like PACT, and yet they were heavly involved in the LA defense, so why would PACT help be frown upon?

Btw, what do you mean by “occupying”, was PACT working with Scarlet? Order’s been helping during the invasion and they didnt have to occupy anything.

A: Orders respond post attack. If the Pact marched in BEFORE the attack and started setting up defenses/cannons, the people would get angry. It’d also place the precident (unwanted by other cities) of the Pact being able to march in and set up shop without any permission.
B: You misunderstand, the Pact wouldn’t be occupying. But if the bulk of Council doesn’t think Scarlet will attack again, then suddenly a decent sized military force marched in and set up shop, it’d look like a military occupation. A misguided viewpoint, but what the masses would think. Also alongside the “THE PACT MADE US A TARGET!” that could appear.

And yea, prepering and sending out reinforcements would take time BUT ONLY if PACT were unaware of Scarlet action. As i said she did a massive invasions throu the world on almost all maps, she even send out a huge flying weapon of mass destruction and it was long before invasion on LA, dont forget that we, the 2nd in command in PACT, were ther and we even had checked her lair and found out her plans of invasion on LA, are you trying to tell me that we had kept that important information away from the PACT?

And until the Attack on LA, where exactly was her forces? Hm? Nobody knew. You can’t deploy an army to take out a hostile force if you CANNOT find it, or even have a CLUE where it is. If we told Trahearne, and he went “Where is this hostile force?”
us: “Um…. uhhh….. we don’t know.”
Trahearne: “I can’t deploy a pact force if we don’t have a target.”

That + if he asked the Captain’s council about it and they said they don’t need his help, that’s basically telling him not to send an army or it’ll have negative results.

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Posted by: Elaron.8150

Elaron.8150

Captain Smash anyone?

Attachments:

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Posted by: Thobek.1730

Thobek.1730

Who wrote this plot? I had seen people act more logically in Disney films.

That would be Angel McCoy.

Time for fresh ideas and a new approach.

What ever happened to Jeff Grubb? surely he had nothing to do with this.

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Posted by: Carighan.6758

Carighan.6758

I said that LA suffered 2 major attacks 2 years prior. So even the dumbest council in the world would care more than that. More over even if kittened they would rather order security extremes after the 2 attacks than to allow their own lives to be at risk again.

The point was that the LA council thought they were prepared. But they weren’t. They expected an attack like the ones they’ve already fought off, not three armies invading + a city-sized air drill attacking.

You know, for a moment forgetting about the limitations of the game engine, that’s an insane attack. The story behind it makes sense, the LA captain’s council was arrogant and thought that since they withstood Risen and Molten and Aetherblade (and with that, Scarlet) before, there’s nothing which can get them down!

And… that proved to be their downfall.

The strength of heart to face oneself has been made manifest. The persona Carighan has appeared.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

Again had to cut out, freaking 5001 limit, for full quotes refer to earlier post.

A: Those passes are narrow yes, and the Sea (Which it…

Ok, what’s your point here, even if the city had some walls, towers and other crap once enemy have the strength to break throu it you are done for, at the very begining my point was that ther was NO DEFENSES build in the city, other than the natural onse plus Claw island, to being with. Even if the enemy can walk past the fortification THAT DOESN’T MEAN THER SHOULD BE NONE, even the most crapy defenses they would come up with could give them a foothold in protecting the city, but NO they simply disregarded that idea.

Overconfidence. And often if one attack fails, the enemy doesn’t charge in again. A foolish…

I said OTHER THAN Scarlet, LA was under attack 2 times already before Scarlet even come out to the surface, even when LA was able to survive it was all thanks to the players(adventurers), without us they would fall. And yet here after Mad King attack than Karka attack, which both began inside of the city, Council didn’t even think “hmm, we got attacked 2 times already, and all the attacks bypased our defenses that suround the city, maybe it would be good idea to build some defenses INSIDE of the city?”, and after that again LA was attacked from the inside by Aetherblade and the city was in total chaos, again without us they would not be able to defend themself, which points to the fact that city NEED DEFENSES OTHER THAN THE ONE IT ALREADY HAVE. How many times do yu need to be attacked to start to think that maybe you need better defenses. If this was in real life people would simply leave the city cause they would knew that Council is incompetent and they can’t count on them.

It takes a long time to mobilize and recall forces covering a nation worth…

Here again, they dont need to recall all of the forces, they just need to preper some fraction of their army to be on stand by in case Scarlet would attack AGAIN, cus it was not 1st attack of her army, Invasion on the whole Tyria happened LONG before
invasion on LA, not forgeting about her weapon test, and even before the LA WE HAD the info about her planed invasion.
How much the enemy have to show you that they have the means to raze you to the ground and how much info about that enemy you need, before you can decide to be prepered for next attack?
From the way it looks its like PACT went with “Hmm, the enemy attacked many times already during this month, and we have the info(assuming that we did pass the info to PACT) about next invasion…AH! screw it, lets just hope for the best”

A: Orders respond post attack. If the Pact marched in BEFORE the attack and started setting up…

Ok, about A, PACT is military organisation that was estabilished to protect WHOLE TYRIA, they part of the every Nation/City as they consist of every race out ther, they cooperate with everyone, who hold power, in Tyria as they also protect them, they are extension of everyones army.
Ther is no one in the world that would be un happy about being protected by people which they decided themself to set as protectors.
PACT is NOT a PMC and they dont belong to one nation/city, they belong to whole Tyria.

And about B, yea cause its better to let people die and make them say "ITS PACT FAULT THAT SO MANY HAVE DIED, THEY WERE SUPOSED TO PROTECT US!!!.
Tyria was already in war state, they were at war with Scarlet, no one would be suprised about an army seting up defense line in bigest and most important cities, especialy about PACT that was suposed to protect them all.
I dont know to who this lone Airship belongs to, that is curently above the LA, but if its really a PACT Ship, do you know how it looks to all of the survivors?
Ther was an invasion, thousand of people die, and finaly after the enemy was defeated PACT send in a SINGLE ship, its like slap to the face for the survivors.
In real life people would start to throw rocks and sticks at the PACT members and spit on their emblem cause their lack of action lead to death of countles of civilians.

And until the Attack on LA, where exactly was her forces? Hm? Nobody knew. You can’t deploy an…

Why they can’t preper fot the attack without sending the army? also who say that they need to station the army at LA, ther are many maps that don’t belong to LA that suround the city, all they have to do is set some small camps around the the LA map, that alone would reduce time needed to get to LA, and council would have no say in what they do on other maps territories.

Kalavier, ther is too many plot holes in this story, whether you like it or not 70% of the story lack any logic or common sense.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: Dean Calaway.9718

Dean Calaway.9718

WHERE IS THE PACT AND THE AIRSHIPS THEY USED TO FIGHT ZHAITAN?

The orders and specially the Pact were created to fight Dragons, not protect Tyria in general.
LA was an independent state with its own police/military, no one else had authority there, at best happon request other organizations could come to aid.
Imagine the Iron Ligion marching into Divinity Reach and tell the Seraph they got it from then on.
Ellen was pushing for more surface to air defences, the council was against.

Why? This can go as deep as you like to over think it, so if you like you can just easily imagine the amount of money that would cost, maybe the council preferred to keep and steal that money for themselves because even if things went wrong they’d just get the hell outta there with their pockets full.

I seriously hope in the future the story gets delivered better because I can’t blame anyone for missing out on most things.

Victoria Cross [VC] – Desolation [EU]

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Posted by: Calys Teneb.7015

Calys Teneb.7015

Gw1 isn’t retconned.

Yes it was. 5 days added into the calendar only show how the LS writer didn’t bother looking up the GW 1 wiki. Saying how the event in GW 1 doesn’t matter because the human gods are nothing more than glorified mages is also crap. There are reasons and there is bull pulling.

Qawsada:
There may be reasons for that, despite how you feel. Leading a campaign against a developer PERSONALLY because you dislike their work generally doesn’t garner much sympathy, even if the populace may agree with some of your points. That hasn’t gone well in other gaming communities, and isn’t likely to be well received here either.

Watching my favorite game getting horrific content and content that retcon or leave plot holes or create a mary sue character can leave me so much in terms of reasoning with them. I complain how badly the story has gone and I rather they hired a different writer than the “writer” we have now. GW 1 was build in integrity and its all torn down thanks to that hack. Of course, she is not the only one that is tearing down GW 2.

You can feel that way. However, you’re singling her out solely because she’s the most visible. In the game industry, a single person is not responsible for 100% of their departments content that goes into game.

As a designer (NOT FOR ARENANET, just to emphasize), I get told “no” a lot. “No, we don’t want to go this direction.” “How do you plan for this.” “How do you plan for that.” “What happens when.” I have a team to help support me on solving these issues, and often it’s a sales pitch to get them to accept the idea in the first place. Sometimes my ideas get turned down and I need to support someone else’s because that’s the direction of the game.

Angel McCoy’s vision is not her telling people what to do. It gets adapted. It gets modified. Portions are cut out. That’s what a team does. The times of people like Miyamoto designing the direction of an entire game are long gone. That was when companies were just starting out small and maybe only had one or two designers or writers. Not the case any more when you have teams of them.

Writing exists to support the design decision of the game, the game does not exist to support the writing decision. Whatever problems you have with the writing, it’s there to support the direction that Guild Wars 2 is going as a whole. Angel McCoy is not a designer, she’s a writer. She has input into the direction, but her team’s writing is expected to support what the design directors want for their game. Just like the art, just like the music, just like the game play. It all supports the design decision as a whole.

Therefore your personal vendetta against one person who is just doing her job in supporting the game’s direction is ludicrous. If you don’t like the writing, that’s fine. But that’s what the direction that ArenaNet want to go with it. Basing your vendetta on interviews months old and what you hear of her scripting of Scarlet is not healthy to discussion about the game as a whole, nor is it respectful of what game developers do, nor does it show that you have any understanding of what the development process is.

(edited by Calys Teneb.7015)

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Posted by: Qawsada.4251

Qawsada.4251

The orders and specially the Pact were created to fight Dragons, not protect Tyria in general.
LA was an independent state with its own police/military, no one else had authority there, at best happon request other organizations could come to aid.

That didn’t stop the orders in going into LA and clearing out the Risen. I would like to point out that the Pact should have fight with Scarlet’s Army on the account that they stole their airship and the fact that they are the other largest standing army in the game. The kind of army that kills everything in their path. No point in fighting the Elder Dragon when someone is using an army to invade varies of places (like their homeland) and not just LA.

(edited by Qawsada.4251)

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

That didn’t stop the orders in going into LA and clearing out the Risen.

You mean those Risen that was specifically part of one of the Elder Dragons armies?
And thus indirectly the Elder Dragon itself.
And thus well with in the purpose of the orders objectives.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

WHERE IS THE PACT AND THE AIRSHIPS THEY USED TO FIGHT ZHAITAN?

The orders and specially the Pact were created to fight Dragons, not protect Tyria in general.
LA was an independent state with its own police/military, no one else had authority there, at best happon request other organizations could come to aid.
Imagine the Iron Ligion marching into Divinity Reach and tell the Seraph they got it from then on.
Ellen was pushing for more surface to air defences, the council was against.

Why? This can go as deep as you like to over think it, so if you like you can just easily imagine the amount of money that would cost, maybe the council preferred to keep and steal that money for themselves because even if things went wrong they’d just get the hell outta there with their pockets full.

I seriously hope in the future the story gets delivered better because I can’t blame anyone for missing out on most things.

fun, ok lest go with this:

A:“Am i speeking with commander of the PACT?”
B:“Yes you are, alright”
A:“Tyria is under attack of an unknown army, we need your support!!”
B:“umm…doese that army have an Dragon?”
A:“Wha-no they dont have any”
B:“Then sorry, but we can’t help you, PACT can only fight Dragons, if your enemy doesnt have wings, tail, can’t fly or doesn’t have a fire breath you are on your own”

^^^Is this how it is, really? kitten i joined most usless organization in the world, i have to quit fast and start helping Tyria on my own, at least like this something will be done.

But now on a serious note, i already posted it somewher on this thread but i guess you have missed it, in real life POLICE was estabilished to enforce law and order and to fight crimes, doese that means that they dont have to help people in danger?
like “Sorry bro, its not our job to protect you, so get lost”…really?

Logic…yea right.

That didn’t stop the orders in going into LA and clearing out the Risen. I would like to point out that the Pact should have fight with Scarlet’s Army on the account that they stole their airship and the fact that they are the other largest standing army in the game. The kind of army that kills everything in their path. No point in fighting the Elder Dragon when someone is using an army to invade varies of places (like their homeland) and not just LA.

^^^This, PACT had so many freaking reasons to fight Scarlet or even force their help on LA, yet they just sit it out. I don’t remember PACT to be so usless from my PS.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

I am inclined to believe that the entire Captains Council enjoys the knowledge that they reduced unemployment rates in Lion’s Arch by 100%. (Sorry, had to be said)

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

Hmm? was some of the posts deleted? well i dont mind, i was going to ask to stop with the personal attacks as they will only make this thread closed.

I understand that people are annoyed at it but try to avoid going personal here.

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Posted by: Biohazard.7523

Biohazard.7523

This thread is so inspiring and creative. I wish arenanet could read it. Maybe they would learn something from it.

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Posted by: Code.8615

Code.8615

This thread is so inspiring and creative. I wish arenanet could read it. Maybe they would learn something from it.

Yeah!

They’d learn that part of their player base will throw hissyfits and start stomping around angrily whilst building up completely over the top hatreds towards specific writers over the most trivial nonsense imaginable because their computer game doesn’t entirely adhere to their personal and entirely subjective opinions.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

I’m just going to post this. Let’s say the the Pact had a small force of airships and troops ready to deploy from Fort Trinity to whereever Scarlet attacks next.

TRAVEL TIME. It’d take a while to get from FT to LA. “Scarlet has attacked all over before!” yeah, but then you leave out the crucial bit. “Oh, and all these other attacks were stopped/repelled before major damage was done.”

Basically, before the assault on LA, we only saw a fraction of her military might. We didn’t truly see the different groups working together all at the same time.

I’ll simply say I truly do understand your point about perhaps the Pact being ready to send military aid, but mobilization, recalling, rearming/resupplying, and travel times would make responses so delayed it’s worthless. This isn’t the order (Vigil for example) going “OHkitten, LA under attack, quick grab those reserves and recruits from the barracks and courtyard and get down there! You over there, recall local forces or redirect them to LA.” This is “We just got news LA was attacked.”
“How bad?”
“Really bad, the Lionguard got routed but them and the local order forces are regrouping for a counter attack.”
“Okay, get ready some reserve forces to head out and load the airships, send a person through the Asura gate to the order bases to learn more about the situation.”

We are talking about a force that isn’t (at most, Vigil keep. Good bit less then a day for whispers and perhaps a tiny bit more for Priory without that gate) a day(or half-day) of travel away perhaps (realistically, not gameplay). We are talking about a force that is spread out across a nation, and that area of land (Orr) is a very decent distance away. That and if it truly was Airships that are required, Lionguard had three around LA post battle.

There are ALWAYS plot holes if all you do is dig for them. If Scarlet’s army was able to be defeated by the Lionguard (with order assistance), then the Pact simply wasn’t needed besides perhaps airship interdiction. Lionguard is for all purposes, the weakest military force manpower wise. (Or at least, reasonable would be).

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

Just a few things.

We did experience the content over 1 month period…. but that doesn’t mean it happened in 1 month. Gamewise it could have been over a day, for example, scarlet attacks, we go in and help saving refugees until the miasma builds up too high and we have to leave, then the wind changes, we rush back in to retake it and defeat scarlet. For all we know it could have all happen in the same day (personally I doubt the drill took 1 month to reach the leyline), without enough time for the pact to actually react and send help.

Note that the pact itself didn’t help… but the members of the orders that form the pact did. Of course, it helps that each order have their main headquarters in a map that’s right next to LA with portals so they could bring people over (and you did see people from the three orders fighting in LA), but equipment (tanks, airships and so on) has to be brought the old fashiones way all the way from Orr and Fort Trinity.

About all that equipment… it’s been a while since I did the personal story and I’m yet to finish the last one (fighting Zaithan), but I do remember that most (if not all) the weapons in the tanks and airships was custom made for Orr, meaning, to either damage and destroy undead and ghosts, or negate magic to Zaithan. Heck, we don’t even know whether the megalaser could heavily damage anything that’s not undead since we only see it being used against Tequatl, but we do know it takes a LOOONG time for it to be charged, and probably much longer time to set it up in the first place (with all the battery packs and stuff around it needs to work).

As for why they weren’t prepared, well, blame it on the council. Both Evon and Kiel were warning of a possible attack on LA, but the rest of the council either didn’t think Scarlet to be such a big thread, or though their current defenses to be good enough to withstand an attack (they were deadly wrong, of course). Lion’s Arch as it is is a sovereign nation in itself, I bet the orders would have helped prepare for such an attack had they’ve been asked by the ruling body (the captain’s council), but doing so without aproval would mean an act of war.

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

I understand your point but what you seems to ignore is the fact that this event, i mean starting with 1st full scale invasion then finding out Scarlet secret bases then fighting with her flying weapon and lastly geting hold of her plans before LA invasion, didnt take just one day, it was spreed across whole month.
Does army need more than a month to prepare for possible war? if so than wars would be over as soon they start.

Also thats why i pointed out that when they got the info about Scarlet planing invasion on LA from us(i still assume that we did send the info to them) they should already start to mobilize the units that are avaliable at that moment and send them to station in area around LA not inside of the city, it would reduce time to get inside the city and help.

And yes, i know that the invasion it self took about a day to be over, but im talking about the time before the invasion, Scarlet wasn’t really secretive about her action.
Just that 1st Tyria wide invasion should be enough to make PACT to react and yet even then we didnt seen any action from them.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

I understand your point but what you seems to ignore is the fact that this event, i mean starting with 1st full scale invasion then finding out Scarlet secret bases then fighting with her flying weapon and lastly geting hold of her plans before LA invasion, didnt take just one day, it was spreed across whole month.
Does army need more than a month to prepare for possible war? if so than wars would be over as soon they start.

Also thats why i pointed out that when they got the info about Scarlet planing invasion on LA from us(i still assume that we did send the info to them) they should already start to mobilize the units that are avaliable at that moment and send them to station in area around LA not inside of the city, it would reduce time to get inside the city and help.

It was spread over a month in our time, we don’t know in game time. For all we know maybe in game time as soon as we were able to enter Scarlet’s lair and see the maps there, we went directly to Divinity’s Reach to examine the evidence gathered with Marjorie and Kasmeer, and were on the way to Lion’s Arch to warn them of an impending attack when it happened.

Just ask any Dragon kitten fan… how sometimes it took over a week’s worth of episodes to charge up an attack that would happen in a few seconds..

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

I understand your point but what you seems to ignore is the fact that this event, i mean starting with 1st full scale invasion then finding out Scarlet secret bases then fighting with her flying weapon and lastly geting hold of her plans before LA invasion, didnt take just one day, it was spreed across whole month.
Does army need more than a month to prepare for possible war? if so than wars would be over as soon they start.

Also thats why i pointed out that when they got the info about Scarlet planing invasion on LA from us(i still assume that we did send the info to them) they should already start to mobilize the units that are avaliable at that moment and send them to station in area around LA not inside of the city, it would reduce time to get inside the city and help.

It was spread over a month in our time, we don’t know in game time. For all we know maybe in game time as soon as we were able to enter Scarlet’s lair and see the maps there, we went directly to Divinity’s Reach to examine the evidence gathered with Marjorie and Kasmeer, and were on the way to Lion’s Arch to warn them of an impending attack when it happened.

Just ask any Dragon kitten fan… how sometimes it took over a week’s worth of episodes to charge up an attack that would happen in a few seconds..

It seems that i edited my post as you were writing yours, thats the part that i added:

“And yes, i know that the invasion it self took about a day to be over, but im talking about the time before the invasion, Scarlet wasn’t really secretive about her action.
Just that 1st Tyria wide invasion should be enough to make PACT to react and yet even then we didnt seen any action from them.”

That Tyria wide invasion wasn’t a small scale fight, almost every map was attacked by massive army, i dont belive that it took just few days to send in and out so many troops around the whole continent (and i really mean here that she just jumped around the whole Tyria with her army).

The moment Scarlet showed what she can do(she even attacked human’s queen), PACT should already be looking for her main base or just for any clues about her and yet did we see any reaction or word from them?
The only one that actualy did something were just small group of people and later some small squad from orders.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: Ulyssean.1709

Ulyssean.1709

B: Scarlet attacked in a manner NOBODY EXPECTED (leadership wise). A massive air attack by airships hasn’t been done before (toward ground targets).

Nobody expected it?

A bunch of sky-pirates whose signature move is attacking with airships attack the city twice. The first time they assassinate one of the Captain’s Council and the second time is 6 months later to break the assassin out of jail.

These sky pirates had a secret base in LA that was discovered. They have one just outside LA too.

So nobody expected these airship pirates to attack LA after they had attacked it repeatedly?

“Yeah, these pirate guys use airships but they’ve not used them yet so they probably won’t in the future.”

Brilliant.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

Oh right, Kalavier, you just remind me of something.

ASURA GATE ANYONE?

I simply can’t belive that PACT is unable to set up a temporary asura gate on the filed if they need to recall the units to Fort Trinity in case of sudden attack on that said fort.

And let’s not forget that ALL of the orders keeps have asura gate that are conected to Fort Trinity, even if they can’t send out their Airships they still can send out the troops.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: Konrad Knox.5162

Konrad Knox.5162

The problem here is the developer’s decision to let every player, no matter how old or new, experience same exact personal story content. Which, in my opinion, was a pretty bad decision, because it forces the personal story to exist in an alternate universe. This forces the Living Story to be completely and profoundly generic. It has to apply to all characters who exist in game regardless of their progress. This will never make sense. Sadly, the whole things needs to be redone, or there will be no end to these threads.

Konrad Knox (level 80) can come up to the Captain’s Council and say:

“Silence. You are the dumbest military officials I have ever laid eyes on, and I am the motherploughing Commander of the motherploughing Pact! My resume? I killed Zhaitan. Now, on your feet and get those ships up and flying by tomorrow morning. That’s dawn, for the stupid! Anyone who has a problem with this, will face me in single combat.”

On the other hand, Atrius Karmane (level 19) can’t say that, because he did not slay Zhaitan yet and is not a commander of anything, but still can partake in the Living Story.

Constructive solutions:

For god’s sake, make the game pay to play, but hire a writers team, and branch the story into proper considerations of character choices. It can’t be that hard, other games do it. Which means, yes, more branches, a lot more branches.

And please, please don’t put words into player character’s mouth. Just give options like “respond politely”, “respond with a flirt”, “make a rude comment”, “make a joke”, “ask about Scralett’s minions”. Just give generic variants of conversation, not specific phrasing.

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Posted by: lordkrall.7241

lordkrall.7241

Oh right, Kalavier, you just remind me of something.

ASURA GATE ANYONE?

I simply can’t belive that PACT is unable to set up a temporary asura gate on the filed if they need to recall the units to Fort Trinity in case of sudden attack on that said fort.

And let’s not forget that ALL of the orders keeps have asura gate that are conected to Fort Trinity, even if they can’t send out their Airships they still can send out the troops.

You mean and use those Asura Gates in Lion’s Arch that was destroyed within seconds of the first airships showing up during the attack?

In lore Asura Gates are quite a bit more complex than shown in the game. It requires people (specifically Asura) on each end of the gate, setting complex settings and so on.
And it can’t really be opened unlimited either and thus sending an army like that wouldn’t really work.

Especially not if everything was over in a day or two.

Krall Bloodsword – Mesmer
Krall Peterson – Warrior
Piken Square

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Posted by: locoman.1974

locoman.1974

The problem here is the developer’s decision to let every player, no matter how old or new, experience same exact personal story content. Which, in my opinion, was a pretty bad decision, because it forces the personal story to exist in an alternate universe. This forces the Living Story to be completely and profoundly generic. It has to apply to all characters who exist in game regardless of their progress. This will never make sense. Sadly, the whole things needs to be redone, or there will be no end to these threads.

Konrad Knox (level 80) can come up to the Captain’s Council and say:

“Silence. You are the dumbest military officials I have ever laid eyes on, and I am the motherploughing Commander of the motherploughing Pact! My resume? I killed Zhaitan. Now, on your feet and get those ships up and flying by tomorrow morning. That’s dawn, for the stupid! Anyone who has a problem with this, will face me in single combat.”

On the other hand, Atrius Karmane (level 19) can’t say that, because he did not slay Zhaitan yet and is not a commander of anything, but still can partake in the Living Story.

Constructive solutions:

For god’s sake, make the game pay to play, but hire a writers team, and branch the story into proper considerations of character choices. It can’t be that hard, other games do it. Which means, yes, more branches, a lot more branches.

And please, please don’t put words into player character’s mouth. Just give options like “respond politely”, “respond with a flirt”, “make a rude comment”, “make a joke”, “ask about Scralett’s minions”. Just give generic variants of conversation, not specific phrasing.

I agree with what you’re trying to say that it wouldn’t work with players in different parts of their personal story (even among different characters in the same account).

BTW, if Konrad Kox tried that he would most likely be told that the captains council members are not military officials in the first place (they’re privateer, AKA pirate, ship captains), they don’t answer to pact authority (or anyone else’s but their own), and that threatening the captain council would only put the whole lionguard after you and a nice cell right next to Canach’s (or a place in the arena according to the books)…

It’s a pile of Elonian protection magic, mixed with a little monk training,
wrapped up in some crazy ritualist hoo-ha from Cantha.
A real grab bag of ‘you can’t hurt me. They’re called Guardians.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

Oh right, Kalavier, you just remind me of something.

ASURA GATE ANYONE?

I simply can’t belive that PACT is unable to set up a temporary asura gate on the filed if they need to recall the units to Fort Trinity in case of sudden attack on that said fort.

And let’s not forget that ALL of the orders keeps have asura gate that are conected to Fort Trinity, even if they can’t send out their Airships they still can send out the troops.

You mean and use those Asura Gates in Lion’s Arch that was destroyed within seconds of the first airships showing up during the attack?

In lore Asura Gates are quite a bit more complex than shown in the game. It requires people (specifically Asura) on each end of the gate, setting complex settings and so on.
And it can’t really be opened unlimited either and thus sending an army like that wouldn’t really work.

Especially not if everything was over in a day or two.

Nah, i mean the Asura gate that each Order respective HQ have that conect directly to Fort Trinity, incase you don’t know HQ of each orders are on map that surounds LA, so in Gandarra fields, Lomar pass and Bloodcoast Tide.

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Posted by: Carbon Footprint.3421

Carbon Footprint.3421

I just have to LOL that people think that travel time is a real issue in this game preventing Pact from helping. I can RUN my toon across the whole map few hours, oh and there are these nifty things called waypoints…just sayin’…

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

I just have to LOL that people think that travel time is a real issue in this game preventing Pact from helping. I can RUN my toon across the whole map few hours, oh and there are these nifty things called waypoints…just sayin’…

Well yea, WP’s does have a place in lore, so yes, they are not only for player use, tho only small objects can be teleported, like people/animals etc.

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Posted by: Mr Ko Killer.7206

Mr Ko Killer.7206

I didn’t find it terrible at all, but as pointed out earlier, Scarlet can just waltz into LA with a gigantic drill floating in the sky, but Zhaitan could only get as far as Claw Island?

As for the council bit, I could be wrong, but I don’t recall the Pact needing any sort of permission to act during the Zhaitan phase, even though the council controls the Lionguard it just goes back to once again, what are they doing this whole time?

If I had to criticize LS 1, it would probably be that it feels immensely far fetched given the Zhaitan arc + backstory of the 250 years following GW1…not only that but it seems anti climatic that the seemingly real reason why Scarlet was able to destroy LA was because of a lack of agreement.

Whether Anet really wanted to just show the gaming world they are willing to destroy a major central hub to it’s game or not, I think they shot themselves in the foot with personal story. Orr hasn’t changed at all, and since the summer, Southsun is still the same aswell.

I like the idea of an ever changing world, but to make it all flow smoothly and realistically (as per their stated goal when this whole thing began) you can’t just focus on one story, and ignore other stories that despite being toned down, are still going on (Orr being cleared of undead, attempts at making Southsun a resort…)

I look forward to the next session though, but kinda questioning whether or not we’ll ever see all the Elder Dragons…unless Anet plans on GW2 having the longevity WoW has experienced, this pace is kinda slow.

Jade Quarry’s TrollMaster General| Generation Of Legends [EviL] Leader

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Posted by: Cormac.3871

Cormac.3871

I’m not sure how people think that the pact are going to fit an airship through an Asura gate. Wasn’t the whole point of the pact their air support?

Also, it’s not like the pact are all sitting in Fort Trinity, they are spread out over Orr trying to hold on to zombie infested lands. In game conveniences like waypoints and short running times make you for forget that Orr is half a continent away. Even so, two hours running across is about a day’s worth of daylight, and the escape from LA looks like it took place overnight. Time expands and contracts by necessity, because realistic time scales lead to boring travel times and events that are over too quickly. Time is one of those things where you have to choose between suspension of disbelief and an unplayable game.

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Posted by: JohnLShannonhouse.1820

JohnLShannonhouse.1820

Who wrote this plot? I had seen people act more logically in Disney films.
What I am talking about is how easily Scarlet managed to destroy Lion’s Arch.
Seriously what’s it going to take for LA to see a real threat when warned about it?
I mean just 2 years prior to it LA suffered 2 major attacks! First from Zhaitan and then from the Karka. They really need only 2 years to become carefree again?
I am not saying that Scarlet should have lost the battle instantly. But there should be at least some real resistance preventing her from landing in LA and starting her digging operation just like that.
Question: WHERE IS THE PACT AND THE AIRSHIPS THEY USED TO FIGHT ZHAITAN?
Even if I were to believe they all got destroyed you would think they build new ones after 2 years right? So why aren’t any of them fighting the aetherblade airships? And is the pact on a 2 year vacation or what? I mean they defeated Zhaitan but celebrating for 2 years when there are 4 other dragons left is a bit too much. And aren’t our characters suppose to be commanders of the pact?
I mean if this was for real I would instantly go to Fort Trinity and say “Soldiers of the pact the terrorist Scarlet is going to attack Lion’s Arch we must not let that happen!”

Lion’s Arch successfully repelled two previous attacks. One never got farther than taking over Claw Island and the other one was driven back into the water. Scarlet did face serious resistance. It was only by developing a weapon (the miasma) that LA was temporarily unable to deal with they were able to gain temporary control. Then the Lionguard and allies came back and defeated Scarlet.

Scarlet only “won” in the sense she awakened Mordremoth. As an attack on the city, she failed. Her forces were only in control for a very short time. Lion’s Arch won the battle against Scarlet.

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Posted by: Kalavier.1097

Kalavier.1097

B: Scarlet attacked in a manner NOBODY EXPECTED (leadership wise). A massive air attack by airships hasn’t been done before (toward ground targets).

Nobody expected it?

A bunch of sky-pirates whose signature move is attacking with airships attack the city twice. The first time they assassinate one of the Captain’s Council and the second time is 6 months later to break the assassin out of jail.

These sky pirates had a secret base in LA that was discovered. They have one just outside LA too.

So nobody expected these airship pirates to attack LA after they had attacked it repeatedly?

“Yeah, these pirate guys use airships but they’ve not used them yet so they probably won’t in the future.”

Brilliant.

Tell me, in GW2 time, how many times do we use airships to bombard the ground?

Never. It’s always against the dragons. So yes, suddenly having an entire FLEET of airships drop out of the clouds DIRECTLY ONTOP of the city and let loose with a major bombardment then deploying troops is a brand new tactic in the “warbook” of the nation.

In the previous attacks/encounters, the Aetherblades never used their airships to bombard ground locations. Dropping off troops, but not as a direct attack. They knew the attack would involve the air (Kiel at least, probably Magnus), but the scale was overwhelming. In RTS terms, Scarlet steamrolled the lionguard.

Oh right, Kalavier, you just remind me of something.

ASURA GATE ANYONE?

I simply can’t belive that PACT is unable to set up a temporary asura gate on the filed if they need to recall the units to Fort Trinity in case of sudden attack on that said fort.

And let’s not forget that ALL of the orders keeps have asura gate that are conected to Fort Trinity, even if they can’t send out their Airships they still can send out the troops.

YAY. You just moved troops into a tiny courtyard at each base. Now you have no airships, tanks, siege golems, supply crates, siege weapons (other then tanks)… congrats. You moved manpower, and nothing else.

Troop wise the orders and lionguard had it completely covered (with adventurer help). Troops wouldn’t have made as big a difference as airships or heavy gear, which can’t fit through the small gates at Fort Trinity.

Also, Asura gates are not that easy or quick to set up. Snaff (I think) was super huge because he made that portable asura gate thing that worked. Nothing has come really close. Waypoints are canon, but as far as we’ve seen they are never used to transport supplies, large objects (wagons, tanks, crates, etc), and most of the time all npcs rather walk (probably because of expenses).

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Posted by: JohnLShannonhouse.1820

JohnLShannonhouse.1820

try to wrap your head around this, it takes an uncountable amount of heat and air power to lift that drill.

It looked smaller than Tix’s flying golem ship. It is definitely smaller than Rata Sum. There are plenty of giant hovering structures in Guild Wars. For whatever reason, heat and lift are not problems.

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

So basicaly you point out that Tyria is dumb.

“Airship being able to attack the ground?!!…what black sorcery is that?”

Is it such a rocket sience, or should i say, highly advanced Arcane magic to think that someone could put and cannon on the Airship? i mean normal ship, the one that sail on water, have plenty of them.

And it seems that you completly disregard the fact that PACT had the means to send even just the troops to help but didn’t, eh.

Oh, and btw, every order’s HQ have an exit, no one is telling to keep the troops inside, i mean, im sure they are no strangers to field camps.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: Sharu.8794

Sharu.8794

Also, Asura gates are not that easy or quick to set up.

They set them up pretty quick and easy already, if you take a look at virgil keep.
It was like “Oh, we already know we will be attacked by Scarlet? So let’s move our important Gates somewhere else. What? Citizens are still inside LA and being attacked? Who care’s. Adventurers can go rescue them or something. Most of us are safe already standing at Virgil Keep. We moved even the whole mystic forge over and our Asura Gates are working fine.”

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Posted by: bullyrook.2165

bullyrook.2165

What I don’t understand is why the writers are trying to pitch it like Keil was the only one trying to do anything on the council. We know that she and Magnus – who is also on the council if I am not mistaken – are joined at the hip. Did Magnus have a sudden change of heart about his support of Keil?

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Posted by: Cold Hearted Person.6154

Cold Hearted Person.6154

Ok, let’s summarize the discussion:

  1. Tyria is dumb.
  2. LA Council even more.
  3. PACT is a bunch of zoofiles, only Dragons in their minds, tho i’m not sure if Dragons can be considered an animals, hmm.

That’s sure give us a good view of a prospect of great future……..

Anet, please give us, the players, an ability to start our own business, i will start then my own PMC and finaly ther will be someone that can at least try to protect Tyria.

(edited by Cold Hearted Person.6154)

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Posted by: Tobias Trueflight.8350

Tobias Trueflight.8350

What I don’t understand is why the writers are trying to pitch it like Keil was the only one trying to do anything on the council. We know that she and Magnus – who is also on the council if I am not mistaken – are joined at the hip. Did Magnus have a sudden change of heart about his support of Keil?

Who knows, we do know that Evon’s been saying a lot too about Scarlet for ages but we don’t know if he directly talked to the council or if he was just rabble-rousing. By judging his character, I’d say the latter.

Anyway, off to go start a petition to the Captain’s Council to set aside funding to pay adventurers for quality lumber, metal, and stone.

Seeking assistants for the Asuran Catapult Project. Applicants will be tested for aerodynamics.