Guild Wars 2

Ridley.3691:

The problem with this thinking is you’re saying homosexual relationships aren’t ‘standard’, and you’re calling them ‘unusual’. They really aren’t, they’re rarer, yes, but they’re just as ‘normal’ as a heterosexual relationship.

Rare = Unusual

Imperios.2543:

elfycara.1572:

Heterosexuality may be mainstream and the norm in real life but who knows what sexuality is like in Tyria? Everybody could be aggressively bisexual so having a lot of homosexual relationships wouldn’t really be seen as uncommon.

->This.

Especially since Kryta is mostly based on Mediterranean countries, which were traditionally quite lax on the whole homosexuality thing.

I’m fine with LGBT romances myself – I loved the Caithe/Faolain storyline, personally. KasJory was a bit more forced and kinda felt like fanservice/affirmative action to me, but was still fairly interesting. BUT I’d like some traditional romance too… It’d be nice for a change.

That, and I asked my 4 year old sister (who is generally watching me play GW2) to look away when Kas and Jory were kissing… does that make me homophobic?

would you have asked her to look away if it was a male x female?
And if not…why did you ask her to look away at this scene?

florence.1674:

It’s a relationship between 2 people. Should it matter whatever the sexes of the 2 are? Claiming to not be homophobic when making a homophobic point does not absolve the OP from being homophobic.

Race used to matter to people when it comes to relationships. Do you think it’s acceptable to question the race of 2 people in a relationship today?

I think this is completely hilarious, you sound like the old president, with his line ‘’Either you are with us or against us’’. The OP simply expressed his dislikes about the UNEQUALITY of the situation, he points out that the two stated couples are in the spotlight while traditional couples are under the radar.

But what is even more hilarious is the amount of hypocrites (I’m not claiming that you are, but I know there are plenty.) that will gladly support these homosexual couples for the sole reason that they are both female only. However if a male only couple would be introduced… these hypocrites would FLIP THEIR kitten in rage at Anet.

Phantom Master.9582:

florence.1674:

It’s a relationship between 2 people. Should it matter whatever the sexes of the 2 are? Claiming to not be homophobic when making a homophobic point does not absolve the OP from being homophobic.

Race used to matter to people when it comes to relationships. Do you think it’s acceptable to question the race of 2 people in a relationship today?

I think this is completely hilarious, you sound like the old president, with his line ‘’Either you are with us or against us’’. The OP simply expressed his dislikes about the UNEQUALITY of the situation, he points out that the two stated couples are in the spotlight while traditional couples are under the radar.

But what is even more hilarious is the amount of hypocrites (I’m not claiming that you are, but I know there are plenty.) that will gladly support these homosexual couples for the sole reason that they are both female only. However if a male only couple would be introduced… these hypocrites would FLIP THEIR kitten in rage at Anet.

I demand a cute little old gay male couple that razzes each other about home decor.

Taygus.4571:

Imperios.2543:

elfycara.1572:

Heterosexuality may be mainstream and the norm in real life but who knows what sexuality is like in Tyria? Everybody could be aggressively bisexual so having a lot of homosexual relationships wouldn’t really be seen as uncommon.

->This.

Especially since Kryta is mostly based on Mediterranean countries, which were traditionally quite lax on the whole homosexuality thing.

I’m fine with LGBT romances myself – I loved the Caithe/Faolain storyline, personally. KasJory was a bit more forced and kinda felt like fanservice/affirmative action to me, but was still fairly interesting. BUT I’d like some traditional romance too… It’d be nice for a change.

That, and I asked my 4 year old sister (who is generally watching me play GW2) to look away when Kas and Jory were kissing… does that make me homophobic?

would you have asked her to look away if it was a male x female?
And if not…why did you ask her to look away at this scene?

I thought she was too young for that kind of stuff. She could ask questions about why they are kissing and that would be embarassing for me to explain. Same for my parents if they got to know, we’re, you know… Russian (okay we’re also Asians and do not oppose the LGBT community but still).

She even asked me if Marjory was a boy when Kasmeer hugged her!

I’m again disappointed that the discussion is turning towards a metadiscussion about homosexual relationships where for me and many others the beef has ALWAYS been about lackluster writing. I personally couldn’t care less what race or gender Kas and Mar were, but the whole thing is just so cliché, feels forced and sappier than a Harlequin novel.

Marjory: Kasmeer, I could gaze into your blue eyes for all eternity!
Kasmeer: Marjory, please tell me you’ll stay by my side for ever!
Braham: Get a room, you guys!

Traveller.7496:

I’m again disappointed that the discussion is turning towards a metadiscussion about homosexual relationships where for me and many others the beef has ALWAYS been about lackluster writing. I personally couldn’t care less what race or gender Kas and Mar were, but the whole thing is just so cliché, feels forced and sappier than a Harlequin novel.

Indeed. It’s turned into an insane battle over something that wasn’t really an issue.

Guys and ladies, the writing was terrible, forced and some main characters should have died. Sorry Anet, you’ll never be George RR Martin, just not going to happen with this kind of performance. At least there will always be fond memories of GW1’s writing.

I loved the Kasmeer/Jory scene. Period. I couldn’t care less about their genders. It’s nice to actually see something happen, so my next request is Queen Jennah harshly rejecting Logan, which makes him seek solace in alcohol and brawls.

bokkieskitten.8023:

At least there will always be fond memories of GW1’s writing.

From the GW1 Wiki:

Writers
Stacie Magelssen [Design Lead for GW2]
Brian Campbell [Design for GW2]
Sean Ferguson [Design for GW2]
Cory Herndon
Caitlin Kittredge [Editing and Localization for GW2]
Will McDermott [Design for GW2]
Bobby Stein [Design Lead for GW2]

I guess all those great writers really saw their skills atrophy. (Or maybe you’re just being overly critical?)

Linnea.5146:

I loved the Kasmeer/Jory scene. Period. I couldn’t care less about their genders. It’s nice to actually see something happen, so my next request is Queen Jennah harshly rejecting Logan, which makes him seek solace in alcohol and brawls.

I thought the consensus was that Logan is under her charm. Or that’s how it was depicted in the novels. She has really no reason to dismiss him, since she’s got him by the bal…. leash.

Traveller.7496:

Linnea.5146:

I loved the Kasmeer/Jory scene. Period. I couldn’t care less about their genders. It’s nice to actually see something happen, so my next request is Queen Jennah harshly rejecting Logan, which makes him seek solace in alcohol and brawls.

I thought the consensus was that Logan is under her charm. Or that’s how it was depicted in the novels. She has really no reason to dismiss him, since she’s got him by the bal…. leash.

That’s probably true. To be honest, I haven’t read the novels… I haven’t even finished the dungeon storyline yet xD Then how about a drunk Logan proposing to her? Ok, ok, I’ll stop, it’s getting off topic.

timmyf.1490:

Morfedel.4165:

timmyf.1490:

Morfedel.4165:

But when they have a second romantic relationship taking center stage centered around two females AGAIN, thats what made me begin to wonder what was going on.

It wasnt the fact they exist; its the fact that two in a row took more major screen time back to back.

There are a variety of relationships in the Personal Story and in the Living World. If we just look at Living World, we have:

Hetero Romantic: Peneloopee/Bloomanoo, Faren/prettymucheverybody, Braham/Ottilia
kitten Romantic: KasJory
Hetero Non-Romantic: Rox/Braham, (hinted at) Braham/Taimi, Kiel/Magnus, Kasmeer/Faren
kitten Non-Romantic: KasJory before it moved to the other column, X-o-Tron/Marcello, Thorn/Edrick

There are many relationships and dynamics, it’s just that one of those pairs kissed in a cut scene.

The romantic relationships that took center stage, however, have been pretty much one type.

I totally forgot that Rox had a romantic thing with a ‘bandmate. So that’s another one.

Anyway, we’re obviously never going to agree on this, but I’m sorry you didn’t enjoy the in-game representation of an often-marginalized segment of society. Hopefully ArenaNet will include more heterosexual relationships in the game, center stage, as you say, so that you don’t feel so uncomfortable.

sigh

Again, I wasn’t uncomfortable. I have said time and again that caithe/faolin was just fine. I was expressing my suspicion of a possible agenda here.

Linnea.5146:

Traveller.7496:

Linnea.5146:

I loved the Kasmeer/Jory scene. Period. I couldn’t care less about their genders. It’s nice to actually see something happen, so my next request is Queen Jennah harshly rejecting Logan, which makes him seek solace in alcohol and brawls.

I thought the consensus was that Logan is under her charm. Or that’s how it was depicted in the novels. She has really no reason to dismiss him, since she’s got him by the bal…. leash.

That’s probably true. To be honest, I haven’t read the novels… I haven’t even finished the dungeon storyline yet xD Then how about a drunk Logan proposing to her? Ok, ok, I’ll stop, it’s getting off topic.

I get the feeling it’s more nationalism and hero worship than sexual attraction on Logan’s part.

Morrigan.2809:

Morfedel.4165:

timmyf.1490:

Look, I just want to add that I personally don’t see much evidence that the OP is homophobic. Or that the posters here defending him are homophobic. I think that’s a pretty strong word and we shouldn’t just casually toss it around.

What I do think is that you are privileged. As am I – a white, college-educated, straight male.

What do I mean by privileged? Specifically, in this case: a relationship which mirrors the kind that I would have in real-life can be represented in game without being seen as social activism or social commentary.

When we make a big deal over this sort of thing, we’re sending small, (I assume) painful messages to people who are already marginalized that the behavior or choices they find most natural are somehow unnatural, strange, unwanted, or wrong.

For my LGBT friends who constantly have to deal with this nonsense: don’t let the kittens grind you down. <3

Well, thanks for that. Let me ask you a question though: in a society where hetero relationships define the vast majority, isn’t it ok to be ok with ONE of these, but protest it when it’s two in a row?

I mean, as I said, the first one didnt bother me. the second did. So how would you define that?

You keep returning to Caithe and Faolin, and you being ok with them.
But
They are not a romance, their relationship is over before the game even starts and they are both Sylvari- so it hardly matters.
They are also not prominent.

Marjory and Kasmeer are human, and pretty and their relationship is part of the story- because you are their friend you spend time with them.

So basically you are saying you are not ok with one same sex relationship in game

No I’m not. Apparently you are incapable of reading.

timmyf.1490:

bokkieskitten.8023:

At least there will always be fond memories of GW1’s writing.

From the GW1 Wiki:

Writers
Stacie Magelssen [Design Lead for GW2]
Brian Campbell [Design for GW2]
Sean Ferguson [Design for GW2]
Cory Herndon
Caitlin Kittredge [Editing and Localization for GW2]
Will McDermott [Design for GW2]
Bobby Stein [Design Lead for GW2]

I guess all those great writers really saw their skills atrophy. (Or maybe you’re just being overly critical?)

I have every right to be as critical as I please. The living story overly lacks any real depth, it seems as if it was tossed together in a sloppy attempt to keep people from fully quitting the game. Give them something to wait for, no matter how low key. GW1 had much more thought in my opinion, the writing wasn’t sloppy and Twilight like.
What is the point of any MMO asking for opinions if the fanboys are just going to come in and pat Anet on the back and snarl at anyone who doesn’t have an opinion aligned with their own. The fact of the matter is they have gotten sloppy and most of us hope they will tighten up.

bokkieskitten.8023:

Phantom Master.9582:

florence.1674:

It’s a relationship between 2 people. Should it matter whatever the sexes of the 2 are? Claiming to not be homophobic when making a homophobic point does not absolve the OP from being homophobic.

Race used to matter to people when it comes to relationships. Do you think it’s acceptable to question the race of 2 people in a relationship today?

I think this is completely hilarious, you sound like the old president, with his line ‘’Either you are with us or against us’’. The OP simply expressed his dislikes about the UNEQUALITY of the situation, he points out that the two stated couples are in the spotlight while traditional couples are under the radar.

But what is even more hilarious is the amount of hypocrites (I’m not claiming that you are, but I know there are plenty.) that will gladly support these homosexual couples for the sole reason that they are both female only. However if a male only couple would be introduced… these hypocrites would FLIP THEIR kitten in rage at Anet.

I demand a cute little old gay male couple that razzes each other about home decor.

Are we channeling an episode of two and a half men here?

bokkieskitten.8023:

I demand a cute little old gay male couple that razzes each other about home decor.

Guild Wars 3: The adventures of Trahearne & Canach.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

bokkieskitten.8023:

Phantom Master.9582:

florence.1674:

It’s a relationship between 2 people. Should it matter whatever the sexes of the 2 are? Claiming to not be homophobic when making a homophobic point does not absolve the OP from being homophobic.

Race used to matter to people when it comes to relationships. Do you think it’s acceptable to question the race of 2 people in a relationship today?

I think this is completely hilarious, you sound like the old president, with his line ‘’Either you are with us or against us’’. The OP simply expressed his dislikes about the UNEQUALITY of the situation, he points out that the two stated couples are in the spotlight while traditional couples are under the radar.

But what is even more hilarious is the amount of hypocrites (I’m not claiming that you are, but I know there are plenty.) that will gladly support these homosexual couples for the sole reason that they are both female only. However if a male only couple would be introduced… these hypocrites would FLIP THEIR kitten in rage at Anet.

I demand a cute little old gay male couple that razzes each other about home decor.

Are we channeling an episode of two and a half men here?

I have never watched that show… is it about two cute old gay men? Mustknowwillwatchifso

Traveller.7496:

bokkieskitten.8023:

I demand a cute little old gay male couple that razzes each other about home decor.

Guild Wars 3: The adventures of Trahearne & Canach.

You.. you are my favourite on this forum..

bokkieskitten.8023:

GW1 had much more thought in my opinion, the writing wasn’t sloppy and Twilight like.
What is the point of any MMO asking for opinions if the fanboys are just going to come in and pat Anet on the back and snarl at anyone who doesn’t have an opinion aligned with their own. The fact of the matter is they have gotten sloppy and most of us hope they will tighten up.

I agree there is room for improvement in the story, but I also think you’re romanticizing GW1 quite a bit.

For example, here’s some Factions material for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8gHHFWOjHQ

Curious as to whether you think the writing now is significantly worse.

Anyone here besides me for RoxHam shipping xD?

Brutalistik.6473:

Anyone here besides me for RoxHam shipping xD?

If it turns out they hook up, I wouldn’t have an issue with it. They’ve shown to care and respect for each other but not rubbed onto our face. But I would still put them under “bromance” category (which would work better if Rox didn’t have such big eyes).

id probably have a problem with Charr and a Human.

Braham is a Norn. He has all kinds of animal forms…

…now this is veering off to a uncomfortable direction, so I’ll stop here.

Now, I’m not against left-handed people, in fact I have left-handed friends. One of my aunts is even left-handed. And I love how far people have come in accepting lefthandedness – I’m all for it! But Anet seems to have a disproportionate obsession with left-handed characters, and I’m starting to think they might be pushing some sort of agenda.

I just wanna say that GW2 put together a better love story in a few patches than Twilight did in 4 books. =P

Dahkeus.8243:

I just wanna say that GW2 put together a better love story in a few patches than Twilight did in 4 books. =P

Red Wedding. Still a better love story than Twilight.

timmyf.1490:

bokkieskitten.8023:

GW1 had much more thought in my opinion, the writing wasn’t sloppy and Twilight like.
What is the point of any MMO asking for opinions if the fanboys are just going to come in and pat Anet on the back and snarl at anyone who doesn’t have an opinion aligned with their own. The fact of the matter is they have gotten sloppy and most of us hope they will tighten up.

I agree there is room for improvement in the story, but I also think you’re romanticizing GW1 quite a bit.

For example, here’s some Factions material for you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V8gHHFWOjHQ

Curious as to whether you think the writing now is significantly worse.

One: No.
Two: Yea, that wasn’t the best. But near the end the emotion was at least there, that poor child, so scared. Prophecies was the best one though.
Three: Yes, yes I still do. The living story needs a lot of work. (Only the living story. Most of the other stories were fine. Just this darn living story, it’s so rushed and painfully forced. To clear up what I mean by forced, is there is little to it. So cut and dry.)

Like I’ve said in another thread. I write for fun and for a multi user dungeon based on D&D, so I expect more for this game. GW1 main story lines were good and they did the best they could back then with what they had (I think a lot of people over look the story and focus on the graphics) I just expected so much more after all the years of waiting on this game. Just so much more. And that is the last I have to say on this topic.
I’ve got medical studies to get back to.

Where’s my personal romance story? We need player housing and a loving wife/husband! Like in Skyrim!

Also, Braham needs to find himself some manly man and Rox needs to cuddle up to Rytlock.

I believe Shiren.9532 said it best: “…this relationship has no plot relevance. Logan and Jennah’s relationship suits the story much better because it has implications for the royal line. Marjory and Kasmeer’s relationship constantly feels like eaves dropping something we have no reason to be involved with. The world isn’t going to change now that they are a couple, if Logan and Jennah married Tyria would change. If Caithe joined Faolain in Nightmare, one of the Firstborn – the closest thing to sylvari leaders – becomes evil. Marjory and Kasmeer’s relationship and it’s presence in the story is self serving, it doesn’t make Tyria a more interesting place, it doesn’t build plots within the world, it just serves as an identity for these two characters.”

Dabrixmgp.4758:

id probably have a problem with Charr and a Human.

Morfedel.4165:

But I also know that the mainstream IS heterosexual. And having now TWO lesbian romances back to back in the stories as the closest thing to a spotlight romance does now raise my eyebrow: it feels like it’s a social agenda being pushed.

I don’t like social agendas in my entertainment. I just want to be entertained, not proselytized to.

This x a million. I wish they’d stop with the soapboxing. On top of the debacle that was Scarlet & the lore-ignoring living story & horrible GW1-marginalizing retcons to the lore, proselytizing to us is… jeez..

bokkieskitten.8023:

bokkieskitten.8023:

GW1 had much more thought in my opinion, the writing wasn’t sloppy and Twilight like.
What is the point of any MMO asking for opinions if the fanboys are just going to come in and pat Anet on the back and snarl at anyone who doesn’t have an opinion aligned with their own. The fact of the matter is they have gotten sloppy and most of us hope they will tighten up.

Curious as to whether you think the writing now is significantly worse.

You’re confusing writing with voice acting & cutscene implementation. & it’s not so much that the writing is worse, it’s the story & character ideas, dismissing of lore & the awful modernization of the dialog. At any rate Koss & Melonni had a more interesting romance than anything in GW2.

Traveller.7496:

Braham is a Norn. He has all kinds of animal forms…

…now this is veering off to a uncomfortable direction, so I’ll stop here.

Bravo. I think this direction deserves more discovery!

Honestly though. I would like to see all the coupling/relationship be kept to a minimum in the main story, unless the writer can come up with something truly inspirational, emotional, and relevant plot. For example, I really dislike the incessant flirting between one of these couples during Escape from LA. It felt out of place and doesn’t relate to the story much.

bokkieskitten.8023:

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

bokkieskitten.8023:

Phantom Master.9582:

florence.1674:

It’s a relationship between 2 people. Should it matter whatever the sexes of the 2 are? Claiming to not be homophobic when making a homophobic point does not absolve the OP from being homophobic.

Race used to matter to people when it comes to relationships. Do you think it’s acceptable to question the race of 2 people in a relationship today?

I think this is completely hilarious, you sound like the old president, with his line ‘’Either you are with us or against us’’. The OP simply expressed his dislikes about the UNEQUALITY of the situation, he points out that the two stated couples are in the spotlight while traditional couples are under the radar.

But what is even more hilarious is the amount of hypocrites (I’m not claiming that you are, but I know there are plenty.) that will gladly support these homosexual couples for the sole reason that they are both female only. However if a male only couple would be introduced… these hypocrites would FLIP THEIR kitten in rage at Anet.

I demand a cute little old gay male couple that razzes each other about home decor.

Are we channeling an episode of two and a half men here?

I have never watched that show… is it about two cute old gay men? Mustknowwillwatchifso

Lol… no. Just a couple of humorous episodes involving Charlie’s fiance’s father finally getting together with the love of his life… an old navy buddy. It was cute, and semi-disturbing.

I personally find the humanoid relationships really boring, whether heterosexual or homosexual. Frankly sexual preference does not bother me since I grew up around all kinds of people. What I would really love to see is some inter-species romance in this game sometime. I’m so looking forward to Rox and Braham hooking up in the near future. Just think of the little nornkittens they could have together! Squeeee

I don’t really understand how the inclusion of two lesbian relationships in two different parts of the game could ever be considered some sort of social agenda. Seems like a real stretch to me.

I personally quite like that the Anet writing team are obviously comfortable with the reality of multiple sexualities and can therefore happily write them into their stories.

bokkieskitten.8023:

I demand a cute little old gay male couple that razzes each other about home decor.

This… Ian McKellen and Patrick Stewart style.

this seems like something very easy to understand. The heterosexual relationships are in the game but they go unnoticed because when you see it you dont think anything about it. But then along comes a lesbian relationship and you immediately notice it. It has nothing to do with gay or straight just what you are used to. When you see something that isnt considered “the norm” it will stand out more.

For example I live in the South and where I live we are about 60:40 whites to blacks. I am used to seeing black people. When I see a black person I dont think anything about their race. On the other hand when I went to boarding school in CT there were 2 black kids in the whole school, hell probably the whole town. When we took trips into town people stared at them almost like they have never seen a black kid before.

I was just mad that the scene was taking forever. Yes yes very nice you guys care deeply for each other now can we move it I want my loots.

In my opinion, it’s still too early to claim that one is being shown predominantly over the other. The 3 major relationships pointed out being Logan and Jenna, Kasmeer and Majory, and Caithe and Faolin.

Both Logans relationship, and Caithe’s are just spoken of here and there, and do not have any major part of the current LS, they both had patches where their relationships were elaborated upon. We learned more about Caithe during the LS when Twilight Arbor Aetherpath was released, and during the Queens Jubilee we learned more about Logans relationship. They both were by no means the center of attention, and neither was developed much further…the relationship between the quagaans has been developed more through the story than either of theirs :-P

Majory and Kasmeer is the first relationship they have really built upon outside of the background lore. I really enjoyed seeing a relationship be developed through the Living Story, and getting to see some new aspects week to week. I consider them to be the only spotlight relationship so far, because with the other 2, you have to search for information about the two of them. With Kass and Jory, it is blatantly obvious that they are a couple, with scenes of them holding hands, flirting, and the big scene in this patch.

As far as pushing an agenda goes, I have to disagree with that. While I did find it odd that 2 out of the 3 relationships between major characters are homosexual, (unless you count Zoja, then its 2 and 2, but her lovers dead)…It does not seem that they are pushing one more then the other. If in season 2 of the LS, another same sex relationship between major characters emerges, I will have to agree with you…but I don’t think we can claim they are pushing 1 more than the other until we have more relationships to go off of. Although I do share your opinion in that I would love to see them develop a more traditional relationship between major characters (Logan and Jenna?) through the living story…and no…the quagaans don’t count…they’re just too cute already for their cute couple stuff to be any different than their usual attitudes XD.

In short, Until we have more relationships to go off of, so far its a pretty even trade off as far relationships between major characters go.

Imperios.2543:

Taygus.4571:

Imperios.2543:

elfycara.1572:

Heterosexuality may be mainstream and the norm in real life but who knows what sexuality is like in Tyria? Everybody could be aggressively bisexual so having a lot of homosexual relationships wouldn’t really be seen as uncommon.

->This.

Especially since Kryta is mostly based on Mediterranean countries, which were traditionally quite lax on the whole homosexuality thing.

I’m fine with LGBT romances myself – I loved the Caithe/Faolain storyline, personally. KasJory was a bit more forced and kinda felt like fanservice/affirmative action to me, but was still fairly interesting. BUT I’d like some traditional romance too… It’d be nice for a change.

That, and I asked my 4 year old sister (who is generally watching me play GW2) to look away when Kas and Jory were kissing… does that make me homophobic?

would you have asked her to look away if it was a male x female?
And if not…why did you ask her to look away at this scene?

I thought she was too young for that kind of stuff. She could ask questions about why they are kissing and that would be embarassing for me to explain. Same for my parents if they got to know, we’re, you know… Russian (okay we’re also Asians and do not oppose the LGBT community but still).

She even asked me if Marjory was a boy when Kasmeer hugged her!

But , not to young to see a male&female kiss?
Thats what I was asking.

If you think it’s ok to see that, and she asks questions about lesbians, just say that they love eachother the same way mom & dad does.

Thats if it would even occur to her that it’s something odd, kids aren’t prejudiced till we teach them to be.

Peter The Lost romance DLC is what we need.

I’d pay 15€ for that.

This topic.

WOW.

See this is why I wish I had a time machine so I could zip forward to a place where this nonsense doesn’t happen anymore. Ah well, it’ll come so long as we keep working for it.

Stopped taking it seriously the second the word “agenda” came up. Honestly, was this topic just a troll attempt? Keep this topic respectful, eh mods? Sorry, but this topic didn’t start from a place of respect for all human beings and it ain’t gonna get there.

Nesukia.7561:

This topic.

WOW.

See this is why I wish I had a time machine so I could zip forward to a place where this nonsense doesn’t happen anymore. Ah well, it’ll come so long as we keep working for it.

Stopped taking it seriously the second the word “agenda” came up. Honestly, was this topic just a troll attempt? Keep this topic respectful, eh mods? Sorry, but this topic didn’t start from a place of respect for all human beings and it ain’t gonna get there.

Your last sentence bears repeating over and over because it encapsulates what is wrong with this topic and the subsequent discussions.

Taygus.4571:

Imperios.2543:

Taygus.4571:

Imperios.2543:

elfycara.1572:

Heterosexuality may be mainstream and the norm in real life but who knows what sexuality is like in Tyria? Everybody could be aggressively bisexual so having a lot of homosexual relationships wouldn’t really be seen as uncommon.

->This.

Especially since Kryta is mostly based on Mediterranean countries, which were traditionally quite lax on the whole homosexuality thing.

I’m fine with LGBT romances myself – I loved the Caithe/Faolain storyline, personally. KasJory was a bit more forced and kinda felt like fanservice/affirmative action to me, but was still fairly interesting. BUT I’d like some traditional romance too… It’d be nice for a change.

That, and I asked my 4 year old sister (who is generally watching me play GW2) to look away when Kas and Jory were kissing… does that make me homophobic?

would you have asked her to look away if it was a male x female?
And if not…why did you ask her to look away at this scene?

I thought she was too young for that kind of stuff. She could ask questions about why they are kissing and that would be embarassing for me to explain. Same for my parents if they got to know, we’re, you know… Russian (okay we’re also Asians and do not oppose the LGBT community but still).

She even asked me if Marjory was a boy when Kasmeer hugged her!

But , not to young to see a male&female kiss?
Thats what I was asking.

If you think it’s ok to see that, and she asks questions about lesbians, just say that they love eachother the same way mom & dad does.

Thats if it would even occur to her that it’s something odd, kids aren’t prejudiced till we teach them to be.

I wanted to add my 2 cents here as well. Telling a child to look away from something is teaching that child that it is wrong, something to be ashamed of, or inappropriate for their age. You need to send a clear message if you do this, and it doesn’t sound much like you know how you feel or what you think about this issue.

It SOUNDS like you have an aversion or fear of displays of homosexuality and don’t want to discuss it. This is pretty much the definition of homophobia.

However, if you did it because you don’t think it’s appropriate for a child to see physical love in general, that’s something else entirely. But I sort of think that if this child sees their mother and father kiss, she gets it. You don’t have to shelter her, and in my opinion you shouldn’t. It is just reinforcing an association that gay couples are something to hide.

Sorry if this tangent is off-topic. I’m posting a 2nd post in response to the original topic creator.

Okay, I have a lesbian family member I love dearly, and many homosexual friends. But that doesn’t mean I agree with their lifestyles. You CAN love and get along with people without agreeing on everything. I know people are going to yell “homophobic” or “closed-minded”, but frankly the people who yell that are ones who are not demonstrating tolerance for other people’s belief systems. Just because I don’t agree with the lifestyle doesn’t make me homophobic (afraid of gays? Really?), and it doesn’t mean I hate or shun people. So stop calling people “homophobic” as an argument instead of having a real discussion. (Similar to a grade school kid calling another “stupid” because they can’t come up with a legitimate point.)

That being said: I would rather see A-Net leave out the romance, or keep it more implied, as they did with Caithe. As least give those of us who don’t want to see digital smooches (lesbian or otherwise) the option to skip the cinematic.

“I don’t like social agendas in my entertainment. I just want to be entertained, not proselytized to.”

Funny. Is there any dialogue in the game that talks specifically about gay rights or issues? No. Nobody’s shoving an agenda down your throat. Just because there are some prominent lesbian relationships doesn’t mean the designers are proselytizing. If they were, there would be specific discussion about homosexual versus heterosexual relationships. In reality, the words gay and lesbian are not used and there is no such discussion.

Gay relationships, like other kinds of consensual adult relationships, are just another banal fact of life. When you stop recognizing it as something to be pointed out just because it’s there and you find it so different or being shoved down your throat, then you can truthfully say you’re not a homophobe.

Huh, now if I tell you I feel like that Quaggan romance between heterosexual Peneloopee and Bloomanoo is being shoved down my throat with a political agenda…is that right?

Morfedel.4165:

So, now we have had TWO prominent lesbian romances:

1. Caithe and Faolin
2. Marjory and Kasmeer

And no heterosexual romances “in the spotlight,” or other species, or….
I’m not saying they don’t exist. We have the backdrop romance of Logan and the Queen, for instance, and the two cooing quaggans in the refugee camp, together since the Tower of Nightmares.

But none of them have had much spotlight. But now we have had two that seemed to get more spotlight than the rest, both lesbian romances.

To preface my own personal attitude and to hopefully deflect accusations of homophobia, I could’t care LESS what someone’s sexual proclivities are, as long as the people are all consenting adults. I’ve been friends with homosexuals, swingers, BDSMers, the list goes on and on.

But I also know that the mainstream IS heterosexual. And having now TWO lesbian romances back to back in the stories as the closest thing to a spotlight romance does now raise my eyebrow: it feels like it’s a social agenda being pushed.

I don’t like social agendas in my entertainment. I just want to be entertained, not proselytized to.

So why now two of these in a row? If the story writers were just trying to write something “different,” they could have mixed it up. Why not a romance in a different species, or in BETWEEN two species? For example, Braham and Rox!

I’d love to see a quaggan/skritt romance, just because I think it would be hysterical.

I’m just saying, it seems/feels now after two of these prominent that its a social commentary. If not, why two of these back to back? If so, well, please, we don’t need to have a social commentary shoved down our throats. Just entertain us, and if adding in romances, remember who the MAJORITY is, or at least mix it up with other romances, such as the type we would not normally see.

Norn/quaggan? Human Charr? Golem/Asura? :-D

And actually, someone else I saw posted here they felt the lesbian scenes weren’t for a social agenda but for the pandering to the “fanboy” out there, and why didn’t he get to have two men in a romance? His question, not mine, but I did find it an interesting one.

Anyway. I’m just saying. I’m interested in hetero romances, not homosexual ones… or romances that we couldnt see in the real world. Have one lesbian romance if you need it, but please remember that the majority of people ARE hetero, and we would like to have our interests “pandered” to as well.

And it doesn’t mean we are homophobic. We just happen to have our own interests in what we like.

Heck, last time I saw the two quaggans at the refugee camp, the female quaggan, on saying she hated scarlet and wished she would DIE, I thought she sounded borderline ready to transform to that Piranha Hulk state that I thought it would have been cool for her to show up ready to chew on Scarlet some!

(as a side note, I did find it interesting that Marjory appeared not lesbian, but pansexual; she appeared to flirt with anything that moved; I would have found it far more interesting if she DID flirt with just about everything, and thus took more time to get closer to Kasmeer, maybe even have some friction about it in the beginning…. and Scarlet’s crack about dating Caithe in the Aetherblade dungeon was hysterical too! )

And here I’m concerned that the politically correct crowd is going to attack me for this post… but like I said, I don’t care about people’s proclivities in general… after all, I have a “proclivity” that I’m not going to discuss here. I just think that two in a row for a game like this is a bit odd and eyebrow-raising. Next storyline, think we can steer away from a third repetition and give us something a little different?

Ok, so I get that the question here is about the majority being able to relate to the characters. And I’m going to put aside any question of whether anyone is homophobic or not.

As a gay man (and a gay gamer), I have played many many games with hetero protagonists and enjoyed them. Most of these games show no nod whatsoever to other colors of the rainbow, so to speak. But I still enjoyed them for their gameplay, story, and other factors. This could also be said about 99.9% of the movies, television series, novels, and other forms of entertainment on the planet. And because of this, I do greatly empathize with your inability to find “someone like you” in the main cast of the story.

That being said, there is nobody like me in the main cast of GW2 either.

But I haven’t had the desire to suggest to ANET that they’re doing it wrong. Because I see the current relationships in the game as a compromise for their fanbase. As many people have pointed out, the majority of gamers ARE male. That being said, wouldn’t it stand to reason that if there was an “agenda” or an attempt to “represent” their consumers in the game, the GLBT representations here would be of Male/Male relationships? Instead, we have Caithe/Faolain and Marjoyr/Kasmeer.

If this is an attempt by marketing (or writing) to an audience, it is a compromise that we should be okay with. There are GLBT characters and there are more palatable Female/Female relationships (because as noted by many men here, they are uncomfortable with two men being physical).

I personally, from a story perspective, prefer to have less Romances and more Comraderie. And from a personal perspective would LOVE to see Bro-ham hook up with Wjerd or somesuch. And I would prefer NOT to see a gay relationship with a butch/girly, top/bottom, sylvari/sylvari couple… because it is expected and unimaginative writing.

But you know what? I don’t think that Marjory/Kasmeer rule out the potential of any of those happening in the future. And there’s also no saying that Marjory, Kasmeer, Logan, Caithe, Braham, Rox… anyone for that matter is a 1 or a 6 on the Kinsey scale.

Kasmeer could die and Marjory could find comfort in Lord Faren for instance… or Braham could realize that Ottilia, while a loss, might not trip his trigger like another fellow Norn could.

I don’t see what Marjory/Kasmeer OR Caithe/Faolain have to do with other romances at all. And I don’t see them as an agenda either. If anything, ANET is building stepping stones toward a community that is more open to compromise.

And who knows what sort of mischief the Tengu will bring… :P

snowflame.1560:

Okay, I have a lesbian family member I love dearly, and many homosexual friends. But that doesn’t mean I agree with their lifestyles. You CAN love and get along with people without agreeing on everything. I know people are going to yell “homophobic” or “closed-minded”, but frankly the people who yell that are ones who are not demonstrating tolerance for other people’s belief systems. Just because I don’t agree with the lifestyle doesn’t make me homophobic (afraid of gays? Really?), and it doesn’t mean I hate or shun people. So stop calling people “homophobic” as an argument instead of having a real discussion. (Similar to a grade school kid calling another “stupid” because they can’t come up with a legitimate point.)

That being said: I would rather see A-Net leave out the romance, or keep it more implied, as they did with Caithe. As least give those of us who don’t want to see digital smooches (lesbian or otherwise) the option to skip the cinematic.

I don’t really think your first paragraph is necessary. And you’ll find a good deal of people will be more responsive if you don’t preface everything with “I’m not homophobic, but…”

I agree with your second statement. As to the first, feel free to message me if you’d like to continue with that train of thought. There is a place for that discussion, but it’s not here.

If it’s expected for people to accept homosexuality. Then in turn so should homophobia. Problem is everyone is forced into being politically correct rather then having their own ideals and values… Shame!