Guild Wars 2

That’s entirely possible. In Guild Wars 1, most of the major plot points were a direct consequence of the player’s actions. Some of these (such as the premature awakening of Primordius and the reign of Joko in Elona, as well as the freedom of the Dredge) are lasting consequences of the Guild Wars 1 player character’s actions. Anet seems to have a fondness for the “good job breaking it, Hero” trope.

Evidence might suggest that she planned for this eventuality and in fact plans on making the players take out the dragon.

Supposing Mordremoth’s first move is to simply follow his food source, he will naturally find the Pale Tree and no doubt set about corrupting it/regaining control of the Sylvari. However, Scarlet has effectively ‘trained’ Tyria’s defenders to be able to cope with this situation. The lessons applied in the Tower of Nightmares could easily be applied to an assault against the now dragon-controlled Pale Tree, effectively killing or severely wounding both. Further, the various boss gimmicks she throws at the player- training for attacking the dragon once he is driven from The Grove. The various factions could be seen as defeating a variety of dragon minions that would have advanced abilities and tactics- since who knows what the dragon could throw at Tyria.

Of course, that’s all just wild speculation on my part.

Just wanted to pop in and say I like this theory. It makes sense, and stands pretty much on it’s own. It also ties in with Taimi’s opinion that scarlet isn’t all bad…..just batkitten insane (and brilliant in her own way). Clearly she’s at best a loose cannon vigilante, showing the ugly side of vigilantism if this is the case. If her intent was to slay the dragon, and we left her alive, it’s also possible that she would have killed many more innocents on her crusade. Reminds me of the nukes in Japan. Their use ended the war, and in theory saved millions of lives which would have been lost in an invasion, but they also killed many innocent people and had an impact felt for almost a century after. From our hero’s point of view, I think ending scarlet was completely justified given what we’ve seen, especially with the destruction of LA. How much that decision costs or saves Tyria, only time will tell.

Scarlet’s face shows what appears to be clear Elder Dragon Corruption.

As for making everything worse….. How do we know Modremoth(Scarlet’s Boss) is the villain we are going to help and not Evon Gnashblade(remember we aid legitimate villains by fighting other just as legitimate villains )?

How would we aid Evon? by helping him get an army from the Fractals of the Mists….

According to Game Designer Antony Ordon: “I doubt Evon’s interest in the past isn’t entirely…religious.”

This implies that Evon has religious reasons for seeking the Abbadon Fractal….

Possibly even to summon a Fractal version of Abbadon?

While fighting Mordremoth or Primordus we’ll only play into Evon’s hands!

Who else wants Nightfallen Tyria?

If this theory is true, then who was the “Master” she mentioned?

As I said the corruption on her face clearly implies Scarlet is Mordremoth’s minion…. The idea that she isn’t is ridiculous!

I also noted the fact that Evon has religious reasons for seeking the Abbadon Fractal….

I think Mordremoth is going to be the immediate threat while Evon is the hidden threat who dupes us.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Knowing what we know now (and most have us have known all along), the Pale Tree is a wayward Champion of Modremoth, much akin to Glint. The Pale Tree has been shaping its Sylvari to resist Mordremoth’s call. We can assume now the Nightmare Court are Sylvari who remain loyal to Mordremoth.

1: First off, where’s your source for this “known” information?

2: You do know that Glint was freed by a spell used by the Forgotten, right? How would the Pale Tree have broken free to begin with? All Ronan did was take it from where it was and plant it, and Ventari lived around where it grew and left his tablet. Not quite sufficient to break the link between a dragon and its minions. Also, the Pale Tree and the Sylvari have free will, something dragon minions lack. (While some possess sentience, it basically is summed up as “serve/hail the dragon!”)

3: The Nightmare Court are composed of sylvari that chose willingly to reject Ventari’s Tablet and it’s teachings. While their method of corrupting people does seem quite similar to dragon corruption, (Nightmare possibly being connected to Mordremoth), this is still not enough to say “Sylvari = Dragon minions and Pale Tree = Dragon Champion”.

I think Scarlet was playing the long game and was planning on destroying Mordremoth, but our heroes came running in and killed her before she could finish her plan. I think it was a great victory that will ultimately be revealed to be the biggest mistake. In short, I think that, by killing Scarlet, we made everything worse.

Well, she did a rather bang up job of it, recruiting armies that antagonized the rest of Tyria, interrupting a jubilee on a whim, and blowing up Lion Arch as a big distraction.

Also one of her lines just before her death seems to imply otherwise: “Tyria will bow before a new master.”

If killing the dragon was her goal, she could’ve just as easily warned the Pact or helped them prepare for the dragon’s awakening, instead of basically forming an Anti-Pact whose sole purpose was to kill and die senselessly to cover up her trying to wake the dragon to begin with.

Seriously…where do they get all their numbers from? Maybe the Inquest cloning tech is for real in Tyria…

Oh and by the way…

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/lore/lore/On-the-Sixth-Elder-Dragon-and-its-corruption/first

Please read that if you’ve got the time.

I think she was trying to save her own race and screw the rest of them. I think that the dragon will have control over the nightmare court and Scarlet wanted to save her race from being bound to the pale tree or the dragon.

I very seriously doubt it.

Killing Mordremoth would be considered a good thing. By, like… everybody. Why would she make an enemy of everyone in Tyria before killing Mordremoth? The two things wouldn’t even be linked. If her intent in the long run was to kill Mordremoth, she could have come forth with the info she’d found on his whereabouts and her ideas to kill him, and gotten HELP instead of doing everything herself while getting kitten wrecked by Lion’s Arch.

My impression from her journal, and I really can’t see it being many other ways, is that she was being controlled by Mordremoth. In his sleep his mind poked around, found a vulnerable sylvari, and fried her brain into being her servant. He could then whisper subtle hints into her subconsciousness on how to wake him up, or similar.

Crazyface Scarlet viewed her work in waking Mordremoth as a grand way of loosing a great chaos into the world, which easily fits into everything else she was doing. I just really can’t see any motivation for her wanting to kill him, other than to shut up the voice inside her head. Then again, the journal ended with something like, “The voice still speaks to me, but I am no longer afraid.” I don’t feel like looking the quote up for exact wording, but that seems to me to state that after a while he wasn’t the mosquito in her ear that he was initially.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

…Anet seems to have a fondness for bad writing.

Fixed it for you.

dreadicon.5840:

… Reminds me of the nukes in Japan. Their use ended the war, …

No, they didn’t. If you want to know more you need to read: http://www.amazon.com/Racing-Enemy-Stalin-Truman-Surrender/dp/0674022416

As Tsuyoshi Hasegawa has shown definitively in his new book, Racing the Enemy—and many other historians have long argued—it was the Soviet Union’s entry into the Pacific war on Aug. 8, two days after the Hiroshima bombing, that provided the final ‘shock’ that led to Japan’s capitulation.

Sieg.8439:

Killing Mordremoth would be considered a good thing. By, like… everybody. Why would she make an enemy of everyone in Tyria before killing Mordremoth? The two things wouldn’t even be linked. If her intent in the long run was to kill Mordremoth, she could have come forth with the info she’d found on his whereabouts and her ideas to kill him, and gotten HELP instead of doing everything herself while getting kitten wrecked by Lion’s Arch.

Captain counsel wont agree with ya. They had Mad Evil Genius with Bucking Gigant robots, Imba army and toxic weapons coming to them. And they was all like “meh…its a joke”

She needed to hurt them to make them feel the danger.

Duke Blackrose.4981:

That’s entirely possible. In Guild Wars 1, most of the major plot points were a direct consequence of the player’s actions. Some of these (such as the premature awakening of Primordius and the reign of Joko in Elona, as well as the freedom of the Dredge) are lasting consequences of the Guild Wars 1 player character’s actions. Anet seems to have a fondness for the “good job breaking it, Hero” trope.

Primordus’ awakening was, in fact, delayed due to our actions.

When we defeated his champion “The Great Destroyer”, he decided to slumber for a little while longer (perhaps to feed on magical ley lines for a little while longer).

Dredge were formerly enslaved by the dwarves… I can’t see how them gaining freedom is a bad thing. Yes, they’ve become hostile but every race in Tyria has some hostiles.

And as far as Palawa Joko, we needed his assistance to defeat Abaddon. He was a means to an end for us (and us to him). In my opinion, it’s the Sunspears’ fault for not keeping a closer eye on him. They knew what he was capable of.
(And in all honesty, I think the Palawa Joko mess was created as an excuse for why we can’t go to Elona at the start of GW2.)

I have to agree with other. Why attack the combined strength the other nations? She may have had the element of surprise because the captains council are stupid but she had to know the combined strength of the other races would beat her.

If she didn’t know that why make the drill so it couldn’t be stopped? So why attack a force you know would be able to beat you in the end? Why not go talk to them and ally with them? In the end she would have ended up like the Germans and fighting on 2 fronts. We know how that ended.

Plus Mordremoth has been a sleep for ages, why wake him? Leave him asleep until you need to face him.

I think its simple. Scarlet entered the cube and Mordremoth took hold of her mind. For some reason he needed her and the laylines.

After seeing the end of season 1, I think Scarlet got corrupted by Mordremoth while she was seeing whatever she saw in that machine. So she had her actual goal of wanting to give her people actual free will (which is what I think her goal was); and the strong voice of the dragon calling out to awaken it. The pale tree seems to be aware of whatever Scarlet saw and must have known it wasn’t in that much danger since it didnt do anything to stop Scarlet when it had the chance or afterwards.

Maybe it even wanted Mordremoth to awaken. All sylvari still have a connection to the dream, besides the nightmare court and the soundless. Using that small connection amplified by Mordremoth maybe the dragon can corrupt most of the sylvari that already exist. Suddenly you have an army of minions that are not only in almost every place on tyrria, but accepted and trusted. We have no idea that if the pale tree is a dragon minion, that it was ever free. Scarlet didn’t seem to think so.

Force 1: The Dragon who wants to define the Sylvari
Force 2: Tyrian races (especially humans) who ended up defining the Sylvari
Her Agenda: Waking the dragon so the two can box and destroy each other
The Dragons Agenda: Waking up, eating magic
Her Reaction: “I do this for myself, not for you! Im gonna be the last one standing”

I think understand what the OP is trying to get at. Basically he is saying Scarlet was the Overbearingly Super evil villain that is used to unite the world and put aside their differences.

She did that because the world would need to stand together to defeat him blah blah and she was also fighting off the corruption while trying to do this.

So maybe some of the stuff she did was of her own volition and other stuff was because of Mordawg. But in the end is going to have the two forces fight each other.

You may say why couldnt she just tell everyone about it blah blah. Because people dont stand together unless tragedy happens (Just like in real life) and so she became the tragedy to force them together.

You may say what about the pact? Well idk according to the writing they havent done much of anything until LA was attacked.

My guess would be that she’s would be a kind of anti-hero that got corrupted with time.

On the asuran experiment she probably saw how the magic moves from the leylines (and probably how it relates to the dragons) but somehow she willingly or nor severed ties with both the dream and the nightmare while, at the same time, she somehow connected to the dragon.
I would also go as far as to say that her corruption was like a slow paced disease, as we know her nightmares got worse with time, and as she realized what was happening she started to devise a plan to counter the dragon. Obviously her unique condition, lack of moral compass coupled with an overly creative mind, would make her work solo or through manipulation not minding any collateral damage if results were achieved.
The study of dragon magic, creation of a mechanical (incorruptible) army, the giant marionette to fight a giant enemy and the increasingly strong poison also points to a fight greater than a simple conquer/destroy a city to wake up a dragon.
Her original objective might have been drilling in LA to somehow poison the leyline and injury the dragon before waking up and then fight it in a weakened state but, the corruption got the better of her by this point. Instead she unleashed hell on the city and simply woke the dragon up going has far as to call it “master”.

Small edit:
I don’t believe we actually made things worse for us. We surely lost a great researcher but her work is lying around for the priory to make use of it. The only question is that will we be as productive as scarlet in the little (?) time we have before we get attacked by another dragon.

It’s a nice idea but seems to be ultimately flawed by one simple fact.

The Op implies that scarlet had further plans, while the game does not support this. This seems to be the end game. And for proof I direct you to the console within the drill itself which was specifically designed not to be turned off regardless of scarlet’s well being.

She designed the plan to go on without her; this is her end game.

Mordremoth whispering in her dreams sounds a bit like indoctrination. Actualy she does share some plot-points with Saren from Mass Effect (as much as the elder dragons do with the Reapers actually).

There is a definite disparity between the way she talks and her end game however.

It makes me wonder if Anet planned much more for scarlet but have instead done what the players were whining for instead.
“Kill off scarlet and get back to dragons”.

Alice.8694:

It’s a nice idea but seems to be ultimately flawed by one simple fact.

The Op implies that scarlet had further plans, while the game does not support this. This seems to be the end game. And for proof I direct you to the console within the drill itself which was specifically designed not to be turned off regardless of scarlet’s well being.

She designed the plan to go on without her; this is her end game.

Having the drill go on does not imply this was her end game. It implies it is a piece of a process which she had no intention of stopping.

Further, I believe the game does support the idea she had further plans.

1. She created a watchwork army which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch. This includes the Clockwork Oakheart, a twisted mechanized version of a potential minion of Mordemoth.
2. She created a mega-laser which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch
3. She created hybrid Toxic monsters which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch

There’s all these things she made along the way that she did not need to accomplish the goal of waking Mordremoth. However, these are all things which would be useful if she were to mount an assault on Mordremoth.

I believe the writers want you to think this is the end game. However, I’m pretty sure it’s not. Scarlet is dead, but I believe in LW Season 2 we will learn more about Scarlet’s true intentions.

“Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me.” -Scarlet

I think that prophetic statement will become evident in LW Season 2, once we begin to face Mordremoth. We’ll need Scarlet, because we will discover that Scarlet had devised a plan on how to kill Mordremoth.

Alice.8694:

There is a definite disparity between the way she talks and her end game however.

It makes me wonder if Anet planned much more for scarlet but have instead done what the players were whining for instead.
“Kill off scarlet and get back to dragons”.

In all honesty, that’s because the story was awfully executed.

Scarlet wasn’t really fleshed out. No one really cared what she was doing.
We didn’t really even get hints about why she might be behind all of this until MUCH later.

We know no more about “Mr. E” than what we read in Marjory’s short story.

Unless you read the short stories, very little about the characters has been explained in-game.

The FLedge storyline took the most time (arguably it was slow, yes) but at least it felt like it was building up to something… They even hinted at “a girl from the city.”

Next, we see the Aetherblades. No real explanation of their goals or who sent them.

And finally, Scarlet’s surprise reveal at Queen Jennah’s Jubilee…

Everyone was like “What?”

Yes, they’ve said now that they voiced many lines that never made it into the game and such because of time constraints.

In my opinion, they should have taken the extra time and put those story moments in the game. I would actually prefer a monthly update schedule to a bi-weekly one.

Basically we have a somewhat monthly schedule with a twist at the two-week mark.

One of the devs had compared GW2 to Game of Thrones… but Game of Thrones has 10 episodes in one year. They’re all exceptionally executed and extremely well polished before they’re shown to the masses.

GW2’s living story (thus far) lacks that luster.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Having the drill go on does not imply this was her end game. It implies it is a piece of a process which she had no intention of stopping.

Further, I believe the game does support the idea she had further plans.

1. She created a watchwork army which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch. This includes the Clockwork Oakheart, a twisted mechanized version of a potential minion of Mordemoth.
2. She created a mega-laser which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch
3. She created hybrid Toxic monsters which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch

There’s all these things she made along the way that she did not need to accomplish the goal of waking Mordremoth. However, these are all things which would be useful if she were to mount an assault on Mordremoth.

I believe the writers want you to think this is the end game. However, I’m pretty sure it’s not. Scarlet is dead, but I believe in LW Season 2 we will learn more about Scarlet’s true intentions.

“Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me.” -Scarlet

I think that prophetic statement will become evident in LW Season 2, once we begin to face Mordremoth. We’ll need Scarlet, because we will discover that Scarlet had devised a plan on how to kill Mordremoth.

Agreed. It seems entirely plausible.

It’s been established that she was testing the Twisted Marionette to see if it was strong enough to beat us.

Keeping in mind that we defeated an Elder Dragon… Presumably, anything that can beat us can beat a dragon.

The way she said “Tyria will bow before a new Master” sounds like she wants the dragon to be in control now~ and by new that means not her. Maybe she wanted to awaken the dragon and some how gain control of it’s power for herself and be the one in charge of her own destiny + everyone elses’.

Thedenofsin.7340:

Alice.8694:

It’s a nice idea but seems to be ultimately flawed by one simple fact.

The Op implies that scarlet had further plans, while the game does not support this. This seems to be the end game. And for proof I direct you to the console within the drill itself which was specifically designed not to be turned off regardless of scarlet’s well being.

She designed the plan to go on without her; this is her end game.

Having the drill go on does not imply this was her end game. It implies it is a piece of a process which she had no intention of stopping.

Further, I believe the game does support the idea she had further plans.

1. She created a watchwork army which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch. This includes the Clockwork Oakheart, a twisted mechanized version of a potential minion of Mordemoth.
2. She created a mega-laser which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch
3. She created hybrid Toxic monsters which she did not need to invade Lion’s Arch

There’s all these things she made along the way that she did not need to accomplish the goal of waking Mordremoth. However, these are all things which would be useful if she were to mount an assault on Mordremoth.

I believe the writers want you to think this is the end game. However, I’m pretty sure it’s not. Scarlet is dead, but I believe in LW Season 2 we will learn more about Scarlet’s true intentions.

“Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me.” -Scarlet

I think that prophetic statement will become evident in LW Season 2, once we begin to face Mordremoth. We’ll need Scarlet, because we will discover that Scarlet had devised a plan on how to kill Mordremoth.

Honestly it just seems like Scarlet wasn’t supposed to die here, she’s been killed off because of the overwhelming negative sentiment toward her reception. All your ideas are probably close to what might have happened, had scarlet continued to be relevant beyond the waking of Mordremoth.

But with lines like “Tyria will bow before a new master” it’s pretty plain to see any chances of scarlet being a more than a 2 dimensional villain character have been lost in order to appease the growing negative sentiment toward the character.

Thedenofsin.7340:

We can assume now the Nightmare Court are Sylvari who remain loyal to Mordremoth.

I actually see the Nightmare Court as the “goth kids” of the Sylvari. They really have no clue what the true nature of the nightmare is because for all their posing, they’re still really loyal to the Pale Tree. It’s their way of acting out because they’re not getting enough attention.

Thedenofsin.7340:

I think Scarlet was playing the long game and was planning on destroying Mordremoth, but our heroes came running in and killed her before she could finish her plan. I think it was a great victory that will ultimately be revealed to be the biggest mistake. In short, I think that, by killing Scarlet, we made everything worse.

I think this was her original plan, but after losing the Pale Tree’s protection, the influence of Mordremoth kept growing within her until by the end she was just Mordremoth’s puppet. If you read her journal, she had stopped fighting the growing presence in her mind by the end.

Alice.8694:

But with lines like “Tyria will bow before a new master” it’s pretty plain to see any chances of scarlet being a more than a 2 dimensional villain character have been lost in order to appease the growing negative sentiment toward the character.

Well. Its still a possibility, that Scarlet didnt want us to think, that she was good. She wasnt gloryhunter like Kiel. She just did what has to be done. So one last help she could have given to Tyria is a Raised Morale. Like “Yay! We killed this evil Genius Scarlet! We beat Zhaitan! We can do anything!”

As I see it, there are four factions of sylvari (that we know of):

1. Sylvari of the Dream, which is nurtured by the Pale Tree to espouse goodness and nobility.

2. Nightmare Court sylvari, who seek to corrupt the Dream by turning it into its opposite: Nightmare.

3. Soundless sylvari, who seek to tune out and ignore the Dream, and thus have no wish to involve themselves with Nightmare either.

4. Sylvari of the Dragon – the Dragon that is possibly the true creator of the Pale Tree and intended the sylvari to be plant-based servants that mimic sentient life on Tyria. These sylvari want to reawaken the Elder Dragon and serve it willingly (or mindlessly if it comes to that). Only Scarlet Briar fits into this camp.

(5. Unknown sylvari of a rumoured second Tree, which includes Malyck.)

As you can see, the Nightmare Court are not so much actual Dragon servants, but rather clueless malcontents who want to overthrow the Dream’s influence. They have no idea of what is behind the Dream (if anything), but they feel the Dream taints the sylvari’s true purpose – if any. Arguably, some factions within the Nightmare Court may even believe that the Nightmare – i.e. turning the Dream into its opposite – is its own end.

Contrary to the Nightmare Court, Scarlet has seen the sylvari’s true purpose. Omadd’s machine has allowed her to see behind the Dream, despite the Pale Tree’s warning. What she saw was the Dragon, and it forced a connection into her mind that has remained ever since.
Scarlet’s madness can be explained by her own will slowly being subsumed by the Dragon’s will. On the one hand, Ceara has always sought the freedom to forge her own destiny, free from the Pale Tree’s influence, but on the other hand, she has been slowly turned into the minion of an even more powerful force than the Pale Tree ever was. As the Dragon achieved a greater hold on Ceara’s mind, it subverted Ceara’s will and bent it to its own purposes. What shattered her mind is that she knows perfectly well that what she is doing is directly opposite to what she once wanted – and that despite this she no longer cares about it. The moment she stopped fearing the whispers in her mind, the last part of Ceara inside her finally gave up.

According to Mordremoth’s twitter, he’s awake because we defeated Scarlet.

maybe Scarlet build her army to protect her world from attack of Mordremoth and that f LA milice ruin her plans and condemned us to death. rly thanks Kasmeer, well played, well played

Scarlet is in no chance a minion of Mordremoth. She got mad by Mordremoth that keeps calling in her head which drove her insane. The last sentence in the journal basically says that she wanted to get rid of Mordremoth: ‘’It communicated with me through images of death, destruction, and destiny. I must know more. I must confront it and put an end to this madness.’’

Is it possible you will have to excuse me I’m not great with lore or story but could waking up a Dragon early cause it to be weakened and not at full potential?

Perhaps by waking him up early was a part of the plan to make him vulnerable enough to be killed?

ChapDev.7650:

Is it possible you will have to excuse me I’m not great with lore or story but could waking up a Dragon early cause it to be weakened and not at full potential?

Perhaps by waking him up early was a part of the plan to make him vulnerable enough to be killed?

The problem is that WE know the dragon has woke up, but there is no way our characters would know that until it attacks. So the dragon will have as much time as it wants to gain power. We still have Jormag beating down Hoelbrek’s door as well but he seems content to not advance. Jormag or Kralkatorrik would be the next logical step, but Jormag presents the next most immediate threat. On the other hand I feel like anet has something about Kralkatorrik up their sleeve still. But who knows what gave me that idea

Scarlet did not see what she thought she saw when she was inside that cube.
Everything she did she did for all the wrong reasons.

Have faith in the mother tree, children.

The dream is a gift, the gift of choice.

Rainbow Sprint.3215:

The problem is that WE know the dragon has woke up, but there is no way our characters would know that until it attacks.

I think ArenaNet will tie up that loose end in the next LW installment in 2 weeks. They’ll find some way to reveal to the characters that the dragon as awakened.

Mickey Frogeater.1470:

Scarlet’s face shows what appears to be clear Elder Dragon Corruption.

As for making everything worse….. How do we know Modremoth(Scarlet’s Boss) is the villain we are going to help and not Evon Gnashblade(remember we aid legitimate villains by fighting other just as legitimate villains )?

How would we aid Evon? by helping him get an army from the Fractals of the Mists….

According to Game Designer Antony Ordon: “I doubt Evon’s interest in the past isn’t entirely…religious.”

This implies that Evon has religious reasons for seeking the Abbadon Fractal….

Possibly even to summon a Fractal version of Abbadon?

While fighting Mordremoth or Primordus we’ll only play into Evon’s hands!

Who else wants Nightfallen Tyria?

As I said the corruption on her face clearly implies Scarlet is Mordremoth’s minion…. The idea that she isn’t is ridiculous!

I also noted the fact that Evon has religious reasons for seeking the Abbadon Fractal….

I think Mordremoth is going to be the immediate threat while Evon is the hidden threat who dupes us.

I fully support any idea that has Evon Gnashblade as evil and a threat. His dialogue about being forced to help the Lionguard proves it for me. The guy is a monster and I’m very glad he didnt get elected to the Captain’s Council.
But I’m sad we still dont know what Caithe’s secret is that Scarlett threatened to tell.

Nilkemia.8507:

Thedenofsin.7340:

Knowing what we know now (and most have us have known all along), the Pale Tree is a wayward Champion of Modremoth, much akin to Glint. The Pale Tree has been shaping its Sylvari to resist Mordremoth’s call. We can assume now the Nightmare Court are Sylvari who remain loyal to Mordremoth.

1: First off, where’s your source for this “known” information?

2: You do know that Glint was freed by a spell used by the Forgotten, right? How would the Pale Tree have broken free to begin with? All Ronan did was take it from where it was and plant it, and Ventari lived around where it grew and left his tablet. Not quite sufficient to break the link between a dragon and its minions. Also, the Pale Tree and the Sylvari have free will, something dragon minions lack. (While some possess sentience, it basically is summed up as “serve/hail the dragon!”)

Pretty much this scarlet saw the duality of consciousness in ommads device but she never found the answers she was looking for. She rejected being part of scociety because she didn’t believe life was just about being good and bad that it was more complex than that. She rejected all gods, she wanted to know the answers to the universe not just accept what she was told. Therefore she is not been corrupted by the ender dragons or one of her minions.

In scarlets mind she is even more powerful than the elder dragons. She would seek to harness the power of the elder dragons or even try to control one for her own bidding if that meant that she would find the answers to the universe.

Everything scarlet does is self serving she serves no one. In the end scarlet never found the answers she was looking for but counted on the dragon she awoke to revenge her death.

Think of scarlet like a slyvari that is smart but not as smart as an assuran with assuran knowledge. They say knowledge is power and knowledge is dangerous for those who cannot control such knowledge. That is scarlet. That is why Taimi says that she could be even more powerful than scarlet. Because shes a real genius not a plant with booksmarts that knows more than she can comprehend without enough intelligence to actually apply what she knows.

panzer.6034:

According to Mordremoth’s twitter, he’s awake because we defeated Scarlet.

ArenaNet has now confirmed that that twitter account (and many others) is not theirs. It is fan-based speculation.

Thedenofsin.7340:

This is what is most interesting, and, for some reason, most overlooked. Scarlet is not saying, “I reject the Pale Tree and follow the elder dragon”. She is saying, “I reject both, and will find a solution where neither are in control”

Here’s my speculation. Scarlet wanted to incite fights between the good and bad. She started out by recruiting the “losing factions” of evil (Krait, Nightmare court,…) and started sending them out. Every time they attacked both us and the evil side lost numbers. (thus going as she planned even if her side lost). We also know she was testing weapons/poison/more… Now she awakened an elder dragon. Although this is speculation (locationwise), it seemed it was quite close to the pale tree. This would cause huge numbers+damage in the asura and sylvari strength. After these 2 lost enough numbers, she could use her weapons/poison to defeat the dragons by herself making her the supreme ruler.

Another speculation I had was that she is Mordremoths champion. Anet has previously anounced that Elder dragons are braindead magic consuming entities with their champions being great tacticians who lead their minions. I have a feeling we haven’t rly seen the great tactician side of these champions. If Scarlet is a champ, she would fulfill this criteria of being a great tactician.

At first I didn’t want her to be under control of the elder dragon considering she had such a strong character (even if people didn’t like her). But after thinking bout the earlier comments about the champions I think this suits her fine.

In neither speculations do I think Scarlet was a good person. I think she was evil, but discussion remains whether she had her own drive or that of her master.

Braham looks suspisious too, fuc ing son of svanir

I kind of hope ArenaNet reads this and adjusts whatever they have up in their sleeve for season 2.

So a few things that people have said but seem to be getting lost:

Sylvari are definitely not inherently dragon minions. They may be able to become corrupted by our good friend Mordremoth, but not by our old friends Zhaitan, Jormag, Kralkatorrik, and Primordus. Sylvari arose from the Pale Tree as fully sentient beings with free will (and a Dream of Dreams, from our Tree at least). The existence of another Tree indicates that all sylvari are certainly not inherently servants of Mordremoth. There are too many factors pointing to the fact that the Pale Tree is not a Champion, no matter what people seem to want to happen (this same tired theory has been cropping up for years).

Sylvari cannot completely sever their connection with the Dream. Soundless attempt to block it out using meditation and other techniques but the Pale Tree can always reach any living sylvari.

The sylvari of the Dream have a variety of different personalities and different levels of aggression or peacefulness, etc. Sylvari of the Nightmare, on the other hand, chose to turn to Nightmare and are actively attempting to turn the Dream into Nightmare. Their goal is purely sylvari-oriented, that’s why the Toxic alliance was so unusual: the suffering of non-sylvari does not get transmitted to the Dream at all, while torturing a sylvari will add some pain and suffering to the Dream. Their ultimate goal is to have a Nightmare of Nightmares and a corrupted Pale Tree which produces aggressive and ‘evil’ individuals.

However, it has been noted that the Nightmare is something one cannot be freed from. Once one is enthralled by Nightmare, they cannot turn back to the Dream even if they tried…although part of being enthralled seems to be that they cannot even try to turn back at all. This, at least, seems to be similar to Dragon Corruption.

How similar it is remains to be seen, although the founders of the Nightmare Court do not appear to have encountered Mordremoth and developed their concept independent of the Pale Tree. The formation of Nightmare was a philosophical and political act which turned out being much more malevolent than others could have anticipated.

Scarlet appears to have been trying to awaken Mordremoth, that much is certain. Why is slightly open to interpretation but we can make some assumptions. One, that Scarlet seems to have been touched by Mordremoth in the Dream of Dreams. This is not unusual, but it is curious because it means that a sylvari has, at some point, encountered Mordremoth or one of its champions. She was protected from corruption for awhile but it was constantly nagging her in the back of her mind. She spent her time seeking out an answer and went to the reluctant asura who taught her many things. Eventually she got into that one experiment: a turning point for her, this experiment opened her up from the inside to the corruption of Mordremoth and drove her slightly insane. If she was corrupted then it seems she still retained some free will, that beyond the limited free will of the Nightmare Court.

At some point (I forget when exactly) she is contacted by the Pale Tree, but Scarlet rejects the Tree’s pleas and continues with her plans. I reject the OP’s position of Scarlet attempting to kill Mordremoth, for a few reasons. One, she could outline her plan to those others who could easily understand it; i.e. the five main races of Tyria. Since she did not, and instead decided to cause death and destruction for a very long time through pushing alliances between odd bedfellows and just essentially killing and hurting a heck of a lot of people. If she merely wanted to kill the dragon she could have enlisted help. Two, she seems to have had a plan. While the drill was programmed to not end even if she had died, that’s more likely a Plan B than her primary plan. She still seemed pretty eager to survive even when pushed into a corner.

What exactly her motives were are unknown, although two immediately come to mind: releasing the dragon so that she can serve it and cause more chaos; or controlling the dragon possibly through methods that Snaff used to control Kralkatorrik, or some other method. Control of the dragon could have allowed her to do so much more damage.

(TL;DR? The 6th paragraph pertains directly to Mordremoth and Scarlet, the rest to clarifying points for the thread in general.)

Duke Blackrose.4981:

such as the premature awakening of Primordius

We actually postponed Primordus’ awakening by defeating the Great Destroyer, iirc.

If Scarlet wanted to kill the dragon then she shouldn’t have placed herself against everyone else who ALSO wanted to kill the dragon. If she had a plan then she should have just said “hey, I have a plan, let’s do this thing.”

Ohoni.6057:

If Scarlet wanted to kill the dragon then she shouldn’t have placed herself against everyone else who ALSO wanted to kill the dragon. If she had a plan then she should have just said “hey, I have a plan, let’s do this thing.”

The power of democracy… Like many people said “hey, Scarlet’s going to attack LA… let’s stop her!” I’m not saying she wanted to kill the dragon, but if she had a plan to stop him, her way of doing it herself would have been the most effective

The power of democracy… Like many people said “hey, Scarlet’s going to attack LA… let’s stop her!” I’m not saying she wanted to kill the dragon, but if she had a plan to stop him, her way of doing it herself would have been the most effective

But now, it wasn’t. It was a stupid way to do it. I mean, she could have done the work all herself, fine, but she deliberately picked fights with people everywhere she went. Launching an invasion of the world’s defacto capital city without any explanation is never a good idea. If her goal was to kill the dragon, and she never made any attempt to explain this to the players, then that is just stupidity on her part.

At the bare minimum, she could have done this event by saying “hey, I’ve got this giant drill. I’m going to be bringing it to LA next week, it’ll drill out in the harbor for a couple weeks and then I’ll be out of your hair.”

No armies, no miasma, no aerial bombardments that wreck up the joint, no slaughtering civilians. If she’d done that, then she would totally have gotten away with it, but at every step along the way she deliberately chose to not just ignore the potential help of the other races, but actively assault them. I cannot see how that connects up with the idea that she was doing them a favor.

class.4802:

Ohoni.6057:

If Scarlet wanted to kill the dragon then she shouldn’t have placed herself against everyone else who ALSO wanted to kill the dragon. If she had a plan then she should have just said “hey, I have a plan, let’s do this thing.”

The power of democracy… Like many people said “hey, Scarlet’s going to attack LA… let’s stop her!” I’m not saying she wanted to kill the dragon, but if she had a plan to stop him, her way of doing it herself would have been the most effective

What was her plan to kill the dragon and why was it the most effective? Why not let the 5 races help you?

Still, “Tyria will bow before a new master” sounds creepy. She look like under corruption.