Guild Wars 2

Yeaaaah… Mordremoth makes the most sense, though I only knew that from out-of-game research a while back because I’ve apparently missed all the in-game references to it. Even knowing that, the first time I saw the cinematic, I thought that was an underwater, sea-floor scene rather than a jungle scene, below which we see a dragon waking. This made me initial question if it was “Bubbles” instead.

I really do like a lot of what’s in the story that’s come together. I have to say, however, that the presentation has been unclear and lacking on a number of levels. I still hold out some hope for the upcoming epilogue, but I remain doubtful the questions about Scarlet, her allies, and all their motivations and methods can be adequately addressed at this point.

Ronah.2869:

If we are not going to see dragons flying all over the tyrian sky, and we will have just another dragon standing still in a map for people to zerg it, the new boss(es) will be the same old thing.

I am more concerned with this than lore. I don’t want another formulaic zerg battle. Also, I don’t think that video is confirmation of new zones. I want new permanent zones to play in with new races, skills dungeons, and armor sets that we earn from playing the game. I want new Fractals and Fractal armor that comes Ascended and you pick the stats. I want an oomp loompa too!

I had to throw in some silliness, but seriously. It is time for new permanent regions in this game.

I’m just glad Scarlet is dead.

Carighan.6758:

@Jaken:
Never felt that way to me, sorry. To me it seemed like they were trying to sweep Scarlet herself under the rug, overshadowing her with Kas’ and Jory’s romance, Rox and Braham, Taimi’s person, the LA destruction and now Mordremoth.

Which, to be fair, is exactly what we asked them to do, in countless pages of countless threads.

No, what we asked was for either Scarlet to be better written and performed or, if that was impossible (sad day, if she’s the extent of ANet’s creativity), that she be written out or diminished. If any of the others overshadowed her, I don’t know what game you’ve been playing.

All those other mini-stories; Rox and Dumbham, Marjory and Kasmeer, Taimi (who is, what present for the marionette and nothing else?) and the LA thing were all part of Scarlet’s story. The aforementioned were her canonical prime enemies and most likely will get the credit for defeating her – not that they actually did anything.

Honestly, the big reveal: that it was a dragon all along, wasn’t much of a surprise. Just like World of Warcraft, GW2 has a designated group of entities that are bent on domination and frequently corrupts either mind or body of the mortal races. In WoW they are called the Old Gods and have been behind like 9/10 of anyone going mad or starting something. In GW2 they are called the Elder Dragons and their scaly little fingers reach everywhere.
It’s a trope and a common mistake to make, to have some ancient evil as a corruptive force, instead of exploring the psyche of the mad itself, is amateuristic and so overdone it’s getting little charred bits at the corners. It would have been much more refreshing if Scarlet had simply been a loony and woken up the dragon without his influence.

Re: the debate whether Sylvari are Mordremoth’s minions or not.
Eeeh, just because Ceara was afflicted by his mind whispers doesn’t mean she was corrupted by him in the same sense as the Branded, Icebrood or Risen are. These have all been changed in their very nature, but Scarlet just went mad. See the Old Gods and Elder Dragons above.
From interviews and their history, Sylvari could either be a natural response to the Elder Dragons, or even something created by the Druids of the Maguuma as an incorruptible army against the Elder Dragons’ destruction – whether they are immune to the plant-y ED, however, remains to be seen.

ColinJohanson.2394:

Traveller.7496:

Mordremoth.

I just have to wonder how Colin thought this was a “one in a million” prediction.

As resident Colin, I said this back when the world thought it was Primordus or a time travel story line, as more clues came out the theories got MUCH more correct, by mid-february the correct theories were certainly far more plentiful.

I disagree with that, given that we got the inevitable, cliched outcome that every Sylvari and her Fernhound saw coming. I recall reading sarcastic comments speculating on very similar outcomes on other popular forums way back, when people first started mentioning the poor writing and “Mary Sue”-ness of the Living Story characters. There’s disappointment, as the only thing that remotely interested me with the entire Living Story was the claims that only a couple people had clued into what was going to happen, which actually made me read back over the Living Story lore to try and puzzle it out.

Should the Mord battle be done as a dungeon instance or as a huge zerg battle? If it is done as a zerg battle then how will the new player be able to complete the content if the zerg has moved on to other stuff?

People still seem to be keen to believe that it would somehow be the deep sea dragon, even though it has been long awaken.

To everyone who are still unsure what dragon it was that Scarlet woke up, the correct answer lies here: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Timeline

Mikhail.4961:

No, what we asked was for either Scarlet to be better written and performed or, if that was impossible (sad day, if she’s the extent of ANet’s creativity), that she be written out or diminished. If any of the others overshadowed her, I don’t know what game you’ve been playing.

What you’re saying is that Scarlet wasn’t a bad character, but rather a underdeveloped character. For someone who hasn’t played the LS for that long. I pretty much thought that Scarlet wasn’t a bad villain but her presence didn’t create an impact (long enough) – and she was killed off pretty quickly. If she was given more of a presence, rather than being in the shadows for the most part. Maybe then her development might have been much better.

Vol.7601:

Jaken.6801:

It is actually not really clear what we have seen.

We saw the Ley lines explode, breaking through the surface (why, i dont know. just because they were pierced by the drill? this certainly needs more elaboration…. oh wait.. Scarlet did it) in different directions…

The last pictures were indeed not the Maguuma jungle but more likely Orr, going into the ocean and maybe under the ocean floor.

We then see some teeth, resembling thorns at first, but quickly turning blueish green, oceanic.

So in the end it is not actually confirmed which dragon it is. It could be Mordremoth, but Bubbles is not outside the possibilities.

How could you interpret that as water?

It’s 100% Mordremoth

Here are the facts:
-The leylines travelled west through Kryta
-Then travelled further west/southwest past the Reactor
-Butterflies are flying around in the ‘green’ scene (the small bubbles are sparkflies)
-You see rotting fauna/trees

AND the only place in all of Tyria with rotting fauna and trees is TWILIGHT ARBOR which is in CALEDON FOREST. That’s the Nightmare Court headquarters.

Now we now know what the courtiers have been worshiping in that location all this time. Be ready to see new content involving Faolain and her crew!

Traveller.7496:

Mordremoth.

I just have to wonder how Colin thought this was a “one in a million” prediction.

Maybe it’s a one in a million prediction because it’s actually not Mordremoth. Mindblowing plot twist to follow in the Epilogue.

Is there some kind of forum joke that people are in on? Every thread that basically talks about the elder dragon at the end cutscene always has these people saying that this is the elder sea dragon (bubbles). How in the hell can you watch that and rationally think to yourself “hmm that looks like the ocean it must be bubbles.” ?

I’ve said it before in a thread a while ago, the layline goes through Queensdale, through Metrica Province, and straight into the Maguuma Wastes. I can remember a video where a member of arena net specifically says that there is a jungle dragon in the Maguuma wastes.

It’s even fairly obvious in the cutscene that the area has plants, glowing insects, fallen trees, and there is even a butterfly.

Please someone explain to me why people think this might be in the ocean.

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

It would be cool if ‘bubbles’ is an Asian dragon

Whoa, it would be awesomer if Bubbles has the body type of the typical chinese dragon, flying around without limbs.

I wish every elder dragon has unique body types instead of the typical dragon body. Though with Zhaitan, I hope we’ll see more unique-looking dragons.

Avascar.9237:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

It would be cool if ‘bubbles’ is an Asian dragon

Whoa, it would be awesomer if Bubbles has the body type of the typical chinese dragon, flying around without limbs.

I wish every elder dragon has unique body types instead of the typical dragon body. Though with Zhaitan, I hope we’ll see more unique-looking dragons.

Chinese (and Japanese) dragons have limbs…. " typically portrayed as long, scaled, serpentine creatures with four legs"

They have 4 legs, and depending on type of dragon between 3 and 5 toes per. Eastern dragons are not portrayed with wings. Those are a ‘Western’ thing.

I’m pretty sure they were just talking about the wings… No need to nitpick.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Avascar.9237:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

It would be cool if ‘bubbles’ is an Asian dragon

Whoa, it would be awesomer if Bubbles has the body type of the typical chinese dragon, flying around without limbs.

I wish every elder dragon has unique body types instead of the typical dragon body. Though with Zhaitan, I hope we’ll see more unique-looking dragons.

Chinese (and Japanese) dragons have limbs…. " typically portrayed as long, scaled, serpentine creatures with four legs"

They have 4 legs, and depending on type of dragon between 3 and 5 toes per. Eastern dragons are not portrayed with wings. Those are a ‘Western’ thing.

Zeivu.3615:

I’m pretty sure they were just talking about the wings… No need to nitpick.

LanfearShadowflame.3189:

Avascar.9237:

OtakuModeEngage.8679:

It would be cool if ‘bubbles’ is an Asian dragon

Whoa, it would be awesomer if Bubbles has the body type of the typical chinese dragon, flying around without limbs.

I wish every elder dragon has unique body types instead of the typical dragon body. Though with Zhaitan, I hope we’ll see more unique-looking dragons.

Chinese (and Japanese) dragons have limbs…. " typically portrayed as long, scaled, serpentine creatures with four legs"

They have 4 legs, and depending on type of dragon between 3 and 5 toes per. Eastern dragons are not portrayed with wings. Those are a ‘Western’ thing.

Wasn’t nit picking. Simply clarifying.

If I were nit picking, I’d point out that Kuunavang (GW1) wasn’t technically a dragon, even though the game classified her as one. Her distinct lack of separate forelimbs classifies her as a wyvern. I can’t actually find a good picture of Zaihtan (and it’s been a while since I did the end of the story), but unless he has forelegs and back legs, separate from his wings, then he wouldn’t technically fall under the ‘dragon’ classification either.

:)

Bobby.3721:

Is there some kind of forum joke that people are in on? Every thread that basically talks about the elder dragon at the end cutscene always has these people saying that this is the elder sea dragon (bubbles). How in the hell can you watch that and rationally think to yourself “hmm that looks like the ocean it must be bubbles.” ?

I’ve said it before in a thread a while ago, the layline goes through Queensdale, through Metrica Province, and straight into the Maguuma Wastes. I can remember a video where a member of arena net specifically says that there is a jungle dragon in the Maguuma wastes.

It’s even fairly obvious in the cutscene that the area has plants, glowing insects, fallen trees, and there is even a butterfly.

Please someone explain to me why people think this might be in the ocean.

They’re probably the same people who think that Largos will be introduced as PCs when the heroes go to fight Bubbles. They want Bubbles so badly, that they chose to ignore the information in front of them.

Now I know why people didn’t understand the Scarlet story: They weren’t paying attention to all the visual and written details. Paying attention to detail is a required skill for every RPG game.

The rumbling background sound akin to bubbles forming under the sea. The sea-blue color sceme instead of the usual green we would assign to forests. The brush-strokes not defining enough to see the difference at first glance, and most people might not care enough to take a second glance. Thats about all the reasons i can think of.

lakdav.3694:

The rumbling background sound akin to bubbles forming under the sea. The sea-blue color sceme instead of the usual green we would assign to forests. The brush-strokes not defining enough to see the difference at first glance, and most people might not care enough to take a second glance. Thats about all the reasons i can think of.

It could be that the colors on the computer were off. The computer color needs to be adjusted OR a new graphics card may need to installed.

On my computer, I saw the green forests, glowing insects, and trees. I automatically recognized the old Reactor as well as Twilight Arbor.

Plus the official GW2 wiki confirms that it’s Mordremoth that has woken up: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Jungle_dragon

To people who say the scene’s underwater because of the “bubbles”, since when do bubbles move up and down? Last time I checked bubbles only go up, while the ones in the cinematic just fly around like… let’s say… sparkflies?

Uruz Six.6594:

Thaddeus.4891:

Its Mordremoth for sure. Its also make total sense with the lore. Just as Sylvari as Mordremoth minions make total sense.

- Ronan a human Soldier discovered a seed in a cave guarded by plant monster. He bring it to his home destroyed by the Mursaat 250 years ago. He decided to plant it and nurse it with the help of a new friend, the Centaur Ventari. They both influenced the growing Pale Tree with Human and Centaur philosophy until the Pale Tree began to grow Sylvari.
- In GW2 we Capture the Sylvari Malyck and we bring him to a Sylvari Seer that say that he’s not born from the Pale Tree, but another tree. This Malyck is from the Nightmare Court. He claim to have no knowledge of the ’’Dream’’ and Traherne think that maybe the second tree have no dream.
- The Nightmare court is a group of Sylvari that reject the Ventari Table (AKA the Human/Centaur philosophy that Ronan and Ventari gave to the Pale Tree).

For me its all clear that these seed that Ronan found was the to create an army of Sylvari, an army of Modremoth minions. The only reasons, why some sylvari are not minions of the dragon right now is because of the Dream. The Pale tree was corrupt by the teaching of Ronan and Ventari and the Pale Tree decide to protect her children from the influence of the Dragon. The nightmare court mission is to remove the protection of the Dream so that all Sylvari fall under the influence of the Dragon.

I repeat: Why is Malyck not espousing the joys of Mordremoth when we meet him?

Malyck’s seed seperated from the tree it was apart of before he was born. Just like the Pale Tree was “corrupted” by Ventari and Ronan, Malyck wasn’t exposed to the Nightmare Court’s tree and thus doesn’t share their ideals. He is the one true neutral of the Sylvari.

Grimno.6172:

What if…

The Sylvari are to Mordremoth as the Undead are to Zhaitan or like the Branded are to Kralkatorrik…

And the Pale Tree… is being used as a sort of… mind-control nulling entity

And that is why the Sylvari are so curious about the world around them…. cause their minds are unlocked and they have their freedom…

But arn’t aware of it… like a dark secret…

Welcome to where we were a year ago xD

Druss.6917:

Vol.7601:

with the spoiler notes I would have definitely thought it was Primordus. I mean, a huge kitten drill? That’s like getting the Vigil to send out submarines in the waters expecting Bubbles, but end up getting Kralk instead!

Colin I do hope that as we shift our focus to Mordremoth, you’ll consider feeding us some content that deals with his champions first. Hopefully a new metaevent.

The drill is shown to be hitting the magical ley line on the screen, not some dragon. The reason Modremoth was still asleep was he had no need to wake. He had tapped into the lines and was sort of drip-feeding off them. When Scarlet interrupted the major convergence of them, it woke him up cause his drugs were cut off. Now he’s going on a withdrawal-induced rampage to get his world-juice back. I think she really believed she could defeat him after he woke up, which shows how truly nuts she was.

But hey, one plant lady’s schizo is another persons new content lol.

That.
Was.
Beautiful.

A dragon with a drug problem.

Well done sir.

TDream.7123:

Wow…this is a lot to take in.

So…just to summarize the situation thus far…I mean, what I think is going on with the dragons and everything…

In terms of elements:
Zhaitain – Death (Decay)
Mordremoth – Life (Growth)
Primordius – Fire
Jormag – Air (or in this case, storms? Ice storms?)
Kralkatorrik – Earth (Rock, crystal)
Bubbles (or Aqualung or whatever the ocean dragon’s name will be) – Water, obviously

Now with Zhaitan out of the way, that means each race has a unique foe in the form of a dragon:
Mordremoth – Sylvari
Primordius – Asura
Jormag – Norn
Kralkatorrik – Charr
Krakenstein (or whatever) – Human (not Divinity’s Reach specifically, but Cantha. There’s no telling was sort of Sea Horrors are torturing that place. On the other hand, I think Divinity’s Reach IS by the sea, isn’t it?)

For now, I going to just assume the main story will play out accordingly based on each races’ foe, possibly with some idiot (like Scarlet) accidentally or intentionally releasing some sealed evil in a can or draconic plot. And of course you have to fix it and save the world. What I don’t understand is, why the dragons go through the cycle of absorbing and releasing magic in the first place? It seems like a pointless endeavor destroying the world only to let it breathe again eventually. What force hates Tyria so much that they planted the dragons to create this artificial torture chamber?

And then there’s this new…pseudo-guild with Rox, Braham, and the others…If you compare them with the original Destiny’s Edge, you start to see some parallels:

Snaff – Marjory (“mentor” to Kasmeer)
Zojja – Kasmeer (“apprentice” to Marjory)
Caithe – I’m going to agree with Kyven.7514’s idea. I believe Malyck will play a bigger role and join up with the rest of the kids
Logan, Rytlock, and Eir can be substituted for Braham, Rox, and Taimi (not necessarily in that order)

Considering Snaff’s fate concerning the original Destiny Edge and the near death experience Marjory just went through near the end of this event, her chances don’t look very good, do they? Not to mention, the friction that Rox and Braham are going through concerning her warband seems eerily similar to what was going on with between Logan and Rytlock.

So that’s where I am right now story-wise. Still, I’m worried that I’m reading too much into things? The developers hold all the cards, and the plot twists, so who knows what’ll happen. I do like the way things are going so far, though, and am looking forward to seeing how the Sylvari react to Mordremoth… (sorry if this post is so long. I had to get this off my chest. Thanks!)

Made a lot of sense, more theories aren’t bad.

So Scarlet wasn’t a Dragon minion, and she did it to to kitten the dragon off for some reason or other?

Reminds me of this, “Caithe, someday you’ll see, Tyria needs me. -Scarlet”

What if this wasn’t about the dragon at all for Scarlet, and more about the leyline? Reminds me of a plot in a book I once read where the antagonist wanted to redirect a leyline to revitalize the land, but it had the consequence of releasing/awakening a powerful entity.