Guild Wars 2

Now that Anet has banned a large number of bots and removed their goods from the market i believe it’s time to see this stupid mechanic go. All it does is punish real players and now that the bots are gone and I can see no reason for it to exist. Its extremely frustrating trying to farm mats for crafting and have the mobs only drop porous bones or white items. I really hope they remove it as soon as possible as it diminishes my enjoyment of the game.

No. It does not punish “real players” it punish farmers.
And ArenaNet simply don’t want people to spend all their time farming the same event/mob/area over and over and over and over and over again.

They have a DR system in GW1 and have had that for several years. It is not going away anytime soon.

lordkrall.7241:

No. It does not punish “real players” it punish farmers.
And ArenaNet simply don’t want people to spend all their time farming the same event/mob/area over and over and over and over and over again.

They have a DR system in GW1 and have had that for several years. It is not going away anytime soon.

Legendary requirements say otherwise. If ArenaNet didn’t want farmers, who are real players btw, then they shouldn’t have made the legendary requirements consist of tons of farming. Heck all the crafting professions require farming to level. I had to farm t1 and t2 mats to level my hunstman. Jewelcrafting I had to farm gold.

If a real player want’s to farm then let him. That’s the way an economy works and ArenaNet is capping that due to DR. That DR actually hurts casual players because that means less supply, thus higher prices.

Distaste.4801:

lordkrall.7241:

No. It does not punish “real players” it punish farmers.
And ArenaNet simply don’t want people to spend all their time farming the same event/mob/area over and over and over and over and over again.

They have a DR system in GW1 and have had that for several years. It is not going away anytime soon.

Legendary requirements say otherwise. If ArenaNet didn’t want farmers, who are real players btw, then they shouldn’t have made the legendary requirements consist of tons of farming. Heck all the crafting professions require farming to level. I had to farm t1 and t2 mats to level my hunstman. Jewelcrafting I had to farm gold.

If a real player want’s to farm then let him. That’s the way an economy works and ArenaNet is capping that due to DR. That DR actually hurts casual players because that means less supply, thus higher prices.

For huntsman yes it does require tons of gathering, though I see jewelcrafting EXP getting nerfed into the ground soon. Then again, I had a ton of mats left over and didn’t need to spend anything. And high end jewelcrafting seems profitable so far… with mat farming of course.

Agreed, DR needs to go.

Diminishing returns is an antigrind mechanic. Grinding is doing the same thing over and over. If you are not doing the same thing over and over you are avoiding grinding and avoiding diminishing returns. I agree with this mentality. Making it less of a reward to grind makes you want to do other things.

there’s anti grind system but every single legendary (and many other mystic forge skins) require you to grind 10’s or 100’s of hours haha what a joke idea from anet. And what if some1 wants to make some money farming sparks for charged lodestones? What you say? Oh yeah don’t grind and do other stuff… stuff like what? there’s nothing to do. The day they add things for a level 80 is the day they can add one million anti grind systems.

You aren’t required to get a legendary to get the best stats in the game so therefore it’s not required grinding.

Also, the game has been out for ~2.5 months? Yes I know people got to lvl 80 within the first week and the first legendary was within the first month, but that’s not what Anet was trying to do. I’m fine if it takes me a year to get my legendary of ~3-5 hours of play/day. Have I been bored some days at the lack of lvl 80 content, yeah, but then I go and either do something else in gw2 or go play a different game. Hell just having to do the daily is enough to get me to play for 30-60 min a day.

Diminishing returns have a point, to extend the length of the game. If everyone got their legendaries (which aren’t required) within 6 months of game time, people would just sign on a big patch or the next holiday event. Anet is trying to get a more stable game that will last longer than that.

Besides this is a game, you should be doing what you find fun, regardless of what rewards you get from it.

The only way to obtain anything is by farming.

Also people wouldn’t be farming the same event chain if it wasn’t the only one worth doing, fix the content instead of putting artificial barriers. It makes sense as a snap decision to deal with bots, but if that isn’t a problem anymore (I’m not sure if it still is or not) then there’s no good reason to have it anymore.

Do you honestly think people WANT to be farming the same event over and over? I’m sure people would love it if doing anything was worth as much for their time so they could feel free to go out and do w/e they want for their rewards.

On top of that, fix the broken tagging system. =p

Torvarren.6295:

Diminishing returns is an antigrind mechanic. Grinding is doing the same thing over and over. If you are not doing the same thing over and over you are avoiding grinding and avoiding diminishing returns. I agree with this mentality. Making it less of a reward to grind makes you want to do other things.

That’s the absolute worst way to encourage you to do other things. Make everything else just as worth it and desirable to do instead of a hidden, ambiguous anti-grind DR mechanic.

Knote.2904:

Torvarren.6295:

Diminishing returns is an antigrind mechanic. Grinding is doing the same thing over and over. If you are not doing the same thing over and over you are avoiding grinding and avoiding diminishing returns. I agree with this mentality. Making it less of a reward to grind makes you want to do other things.

That’s the absolute worst way to encourage you to do other things. Make everything else just as worth it and desirable to do instead of a hidden, ambiguous anti-grind DR mechanic.

When you are getting Diminishing Returns other events and places give you better loot so why keep doing it if the better loot is in another event or even in another zone? If you are saying you want to farm the same event over and over then you are saying you want to grind and you accept the Diminishing Returns that go along with grinding.

Torvarren.6295:

Knote.2904:

Torvarren.6295:

Diminishing returns is an antigrind mechanic. Grinding is doing the same thing over and over. If you are not doing the same thing over and over you are avoiding grinding and avoiding diminishing returns. I agree with this mentality. Making it less of a reward to grind makes you want to do other things.

That’s the absolute worst way to encourage you to do other things. Make everything else just as worth it and desirable to do instead of a hidden, ambiguous anti-grind DR mechanic.

When you are getting Diminishing Returns other events and places give you better loot so why keep doing it if the better loot is in another event or even in another zone? If you are saying you want to farm the same event over and over then you are saying you want to grind and you accept the Diminishing Returns that go along with grinding.

You obviously didn’t read my post whatsoever.

Knote.2904:

Torvarren.6295:

Knote.2904:

Torvarren.6295:

Diminishing returns is an antigrind mechanic. Grinding is doing the same thing over and over. If you are not doing the same thing over and over you are avoiding grinding and avoiding diminishing returns. I agree with this mentality. Making it less of a reward to grind makes you want to do other things.

That’s the absolute worst way to encourage you to do other things. Make everything else just as worth it and desirable to do instead of a hidden, ambiguous anti-grind DR mechanic.

When you are getting Diminishing Returns other events and places give you better loot so why keep doing it if the better loot is in another event or even in another zone? If you are saying you want to farm the same event over and over then you are saying you want to grind and you accept the Diminishing Returns that go along with grinding.

You obviously didn’t read my post whatsoever.

My post is saying that it is the absolute best way to get you to stop grinding the same content over and over and experience other stuff for a while. Other games reward you for doing the same thing over and over i.e. Raiding. Every piece of this game is equally as valid as any other piece at any level.

Torvarren.6295:

Making it less of a reward to grind makes you want to do other things.

It sure does! It makes me want to log off.

Someone mentioned (possibly you, Torvarren) that players should do what they find fun instead of grinding. Yet, for a lot of players, working towards the shiniest or most powerful items IS fun. The lure of that cool item motivates people to keep playing; it provides a purpose, a goal. Since the shiniest items in GW2 require lots and lots and lots of grinding, it’s more than a bit irritating to have your motivation for playing the game continually frustrated by DR.

You claim that a DR system makes other activities more appealing, but in fact it does not. Rather, it only makes your current activity unappealing, i.e. farming/grinding. That by no means enhances the quality of everything else in the game, though. And, if you’re like me, a player who enjoys working towards the shiniest new toy, what are you supposed to do? The game intentionally frustrates my attempts to enjoy it!

Surely the devs should work towards making all aspects of their game appealing; making any particular activity *un*appealing is pretty mind-boggling. It’s counterproductive to the aim of encouraging people to play their game.

Torvarren.6295:

You aren’t required to get a legendary to get the best stats in the game so therefore it’s not required grinding.

You still haven’t figured out that this game is not about the best stats…
You can get the best stat armor by crafting it. (I)
Crafted armor is the armor with the worst appearance. (II)

From (I) and (II) the result is that you have to GRIND to make the armor look better.
I can only speak for leather armor. The only fitting leather armor is the T3 cultural and the duelist set. Excuse me but I have been wearing the duelist set since day 9 and I am SICK of it. Which leaves me to GRIND 120 gold to buy the cultural one…

And you guys are looking at this not from a Guild Wars 2 standpoint.
Arenanet does not want you to grind so therefore antigrind mechanics.
Primary for playing the game is maximizing your build with a specific set of stats, then secondary is applying the look you want to the armor with the stats that makes your build work. Why would you wear something that looked good and hindered your build? In Guild Wars 1 you got the highest weapons and armor to get you through most of the content and the very END GAME was Obsidian Armor and Tormented Weapons.

Max stats > aesthetics when attempting to finish the end game in both games.

Torvarren.6295:

Diminishing returns is an antigrind mechanic. Grinding is doing the same thing over and over. If you are not doing the same thing over and over you are avoiding grinding and avoiding diminishing returns. I agree with this mentality. Making it less of a reward to grind makes you want to do other things.

It’s people like you that don’t get how broken DR is, just yesterday alone did a full AC run, 1 CoF path and got my full tokens, did 1 CoE run and I get 45 tokens, yea that makes sense.

Torvarren.6295:

And you guys are looking at this not from a Guild Wars 2 standpoint.
Arenanet does not want you to grind so therefore antigrind mechanics.

I think you’re very, very confused. Do you not recognize the tension in saying that ANet doesn’t want you to grind when almost every level 80 goal/activity requires it? You want dungeon gear? Gotta grind it out. Want to craft your heart out? Gotta grind/farm materials and/or money. Want a legendary? Same thing – a grind.

lordkrall.7241:

No. It does not punish “real players” it punish farmers.
And ArenaNet simply don’t want people to spend all their time farming the same event/mob/area over and over and over and over and over again.

This. GW2 is not really for grinders. They are already hurting everyone else due to how player manipulation in the TP is artificially increasing the price of items required for Legendaries. Normal players are more important than grinders, and the game should be focused on them.

It’s only grinding if you spend all your time doing the same thing over and over. If you do different things and only run each path in a dungeon once per day it is not grinding.

Doing the same path in a dungeon once per day is not grinding.
Spreading out the events you do to avoid Diminishing Returns is not grinding.

Torvarren.6295:

It’s only grinding if you spend all your time doing the same thing over and over. If you do different things and only run each path in a dungeon once per day it is not grinding.

Doing the same path in a dungeon once per day is not grinding.
Spreading out the events you do to avoid Diminishing Returns is not grinding.

This guy knows what he is talking about. When you do multiple dungeon runs with your guild and they are for the 1st time of the day (according to daily reset) in a new dungeon and you get hit with DR it pretty much means either 1. Stop playing or 2. Keep playing and the next NEW path will reward you 30 tokens. Unfortunately the “casuals” if you want to call yourselves that don’t understand how much DR affects the people that can only play the game 2-3 days a week and do guild dungeon tours and see how much the system is complete bullkitten. If it’s your normal 3-4 paths per day on a different path you will never see DR hit you, otherwise, most of you have no idea what we’re talking about. (Unless you want to defend the broken system and are forced to wait 1-2 hrs before you can start your (first time on a) new path on a dungeon in order to avoid DR when it was never supposed to be imposed on you in the first place).

Torvarren.6295:

And you guys are looking at this not from a Guild Wars 2 standpoint.
Arenanet does not want you to grind so therefore antigrind mechanics.

Anything exotic requires grinding whether from gold or from exotic mats. The endgame loot is built around grinding and farming then they go and put mechanics in pace to discourage it. Too much stick not enough carrot.

I’ve been at lvl 80 for at least 6 weeks now, and spent a fair bit of time in TCS farming with magic find gear, I’ve never had 1 exotic drop, not 1, that to me is discouraging.

As for Anet wanting to discourage farmers in their response to the outcry over the diminishing returns they said they want legitimate players to be able to farm.

Torvarren.6295:

My post is saying that it is the absolute best way to get you to stop grinding the same content over and over and experience other stuff for a while.

Yes, DR makes you want to think why are you being punished for playing the game. Then it makes you want to experience that lovely weather outdoors.

I would like DR removed OR clearly pointed out inside the game. The former is a pipe dream. So lets focus on the latter: if a player is being hit by diminishing returns the drops that are withheld by the DR should be replaced by something that has a tooltip explaining the situation. I dont want to wonder if I am already in the DR frame or just hitting a dry spell on drops. I dont want to time my playing to the minute and switch areas at the right time before the DR. If I get something like the ruined plant fibers from logging with the wrong axe at least I know its time to leave.

I don’t feel that strongly either way about this issue except when it comes to the Claw of Jormag. It’s already an ugly situation thanks to the ongoing conflict between people who want to complete the event, and those that are farming corrupted lodestones. Remove DR and it’s gonna get far uglier. Then again, while I enjoy killing the dragons, I tend to agree with a post I saw in a different topic that maybe the timing of these dragons’ events should be randomized some.

RetiredBard.5294:

Claw of Jormag.

Buff chest loot to have a significant probability of containing at least 1 lodestone. Problem solved.

Iehova.9518:

RetiredBard.5294:

Claw of Jormag.

Buff chest loot to have a significant probability of containing at least 1 lodestone. Problem solved.

Problem not solved. Not when farmers are reporting upwards of 3 lodestones by drawing it out. Now add to that that they were reporting a precursor drop from a champ in phase 2. I don’t think that chance at a lodestone or 2 from the chest is going to discourage farmers drawing out the battle.

Here’s the factor I think some people are forgetting.

SPEED

It’s true.
Armor.
Legendaries.
Exotics.

It is all a grind. There’s no other way to slice it. People are correct when they call it that.

However….

It seems to me that there’s two halves of people playing the game right now.

The first half is completely fine. They’re not getting hit by the DR because they enjoy the game and they are working towards their shinies (whatever they may be) at a reasonable pace. They’re grinding their mats. They’re grinding their tokens. They’re grinding whatever but at the same time they are balancing out that time by playing the game on the whole.

Then there’s the other half and that’s where speed comes into play.

They want their shinies NOW. Because of that they’re doing nothing but grinding the same events, the same areas, the same dungeons.

Why?

Because they feel it’s the quickest way to get want they want and the rewards are the best.
That may be true but it’s their personal desire to get what they want as soon as humanly possible that’s causing this group of players to be affected by the DR.

So i guess really the deciding factor regarding one’s reason to be annoyed is PATIENCE.

Do you have it?
Or not?

But that’s just my theory.

For DE its not a issue, look at Plinx, you do 5 events before you reach the 6th meaning you never see those diminishing returns. This only effects people who sit around and wait for 1 single event.

This is more of a dungeon issue.

RetiredBard.5294:

Not when farmers are reporting upwards of 3 lodestones by drawing it out. Now add to that that they were reporting a precursor drop from a champ in phase 2.

[citation needed]

Buffing the chest loot high enough to discourage drawing out is the simplest solution.

DR is not the problem, lack of end areas to farm is. If there are only a few events in one area that you can farm as level 80 content, then you are forced to farm to same area. Meaning you cant avoid DR.

In time when more areas are added DR wont be an issue, you will just need to swap areas after every hour (or however long DR takes to kick in)

DR is not the problem, lack of end areas to farm is.

Punishing players for playing the game is problematic, to say the least.

So they don’t want you to grind and they put a system in place to prevent grinding. Then they require you to grind to access end game content like legendary weapons. (It’s the big endgame goal. It’s not optional to anyone that is hardcore. Grinders are almost always hardcore.)

So why would they do this. I wish I knew the answer. I’m sure it’s a real GEM.

SteepledHat.1345:

So why would they do this. I wish I knew the answer. I’m sure it’s a real GEM.

Didnt someone work out that is would cost Hundreds of £££ to buy a legendary weapon with gems? Therefore your theory is moot. If it cost say £70 or something, maybe there would be more of an arguement.

Hundreds of dollars isn’t a barrier to a lot of people. Some people are obscenely rich and willing to waste that much to have bragging rights in a video game. Sad, but true.

Without diminishing returns the value for anything that dropped from enemies would be copper and the price of anything rare would be gold creating an unbridgeable middleground where only the lucky and the people that could play for countless hours selling trash and getting those rare drops would have money
I have 15g and I feel poor as hell because anything I might want is expensive and anything I can sell is worth nothing I can grind events in Orr, farm orichalcum for money but thats not fun and its going to be forever until I can afford T3 Cultural armor. Legendarys are for no lifers.

I agreed! DR need to go. Since Anet just mass banned bots. There is no reason to punish legit players that want to farm is there?

dr is fine, they should leave it as is, and riaky, dont forget that a hefty number of those banns were legitmate players who were banned for no reason.

anyhow, i believe that if a person wants to farm, they should be able too, and vise versa

DR hurts normal players and is rather discouraging. For farming events in Cursed Shore I hit DR on Karma in just 30 min.

For dungeons, DR hurts groups that are able to clear dungeons faster then expected legitimately. I see the point of DR to stop exploiters, but when it hurts legitimate players it needs another look at.

Hanshanelo.3924:

Now that Anet has banned a large number of bots and removed their goods from the market i believe it’s time to see this stupid mechanic go. All it does is punish real players and now that the bots are gone and I can see no reason for it to exist. Its extremely frustrating trying to farm mats for crafting and have the mobs only drop porous bones or white items. I really hope they remove it as soon as possible as it diminishes my enjoyment of the game.

Absolutely AGREE! It’s time Anet. That temporary fix was fine so long as it remains temporary. Not only that but they need to re-evaluate MF because it’s easier to get better gear drops with only 10% MF then it is with 146%. Something is definitely wrong!

Please check it out and fix whatever the issues are and remove DR from open world events and creature kills.

Natsu Dragneel.1625:

dr is fine, they should leave it as is

says the person who probably has everything they need for their toons. You would be saying the same thing if this were happening to you, not everyone joined or started farming for end game immediately at launch. some of us were actually enjoying the sights sounds and secrets of the game. Tired of this argument, there shouldn’t be one it’s wrong to continue DR now that the code for detecting bots is obviously being used and that the reporting of bots is obviously being taking seriously. DR is now only hurting regular players. It’s not necessary and it’s wrong. While it’s still in effect the only reason to login is if you are an RP player and you spend all your time developing your own personal side story for your toon. The rest of us, both the gathcraftsplorers and the dungioneers who don’t already have the gear and can’t throw RL money into the gems to convert them to gold to buy everything we need instantly are being affected by this. being cut off from farming the mats we need to do prepare for harder challenges is not fun.

I can only hope you people talk about DR on event rewards since the DR on item drop is just a myth. So what exactly is the problem? The karma? I thought the karma jugs buffed that up quite a bit.

I farm CS and Frostgorge constantly and i rarely if ever hit some DR on events (only if they are in very quick succession) and never hit DR for drops even if i kill one single type of enemy for 2 hours (elementals for loadstones for example).

So either:
1. People are greatly exaggerating because they hit some bad luck streak on item drops.
2. They are bugged
3. They are farming only plinx/penitent/shelter events for karma and care about that only

The dungeon system for DR is fine, you can get fully geared from a dungeon in little over a week if you do all paths daily at least once.

And to those who say they have trouble getting money for basic gear (full exotics/weapons) from farming because of DR: troll harder. Money is extremely easy to make, 1-2 golds per hour is enough to get fully decked quickly. If you cannot make that much money from farming you need to learn to play better, find a guide or something.

supergica.8652:

the DR on item drop is just a myth.

I would greatly appreciate a debunk.

The dungeon system for DR is fine

No it’s not. Dungeon DR is punishing good teams for being good.

you can get fully geared from a dungeon in little over a week if you do all paths daily at least once.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

What the dungeon forum is mostly whining about is the absolutely stupid and unnecessary 5 paths / 2 hours DR. Pardon me for having a team of good players that steamroll the weak content we currently have.

Iehova.9518:

supergica.8652:

the DR on item drop is just a myth.

I would greatly appreciate a debunk.

The dungeon system for DR is fine

No it’s not. Dungeon DR is punishing good teams for being good.

you can get fully geared from a dungeon in little over a week if you do all paths daily at least once.

Thanks Captain Obvious.

What the dungeon forum is mostly whining about is the absolutely stupid and unnecessary 5 paths / 2 hours DR. Pardon me for having a team of good players that steamroll the weak content we currently have.

1. Sorry, but as long as you can do the same events for hours and always get the same average drop per greens/blues/rares and materials, i don’t see where the DR is. I never saw personally or heard a guildie complain that no items drop killing something, other then the occasionally 10 minutes of bad luck and porous bones. Seriously, i personally farmed the same 5-6 mobs for hours and always got the same average loot per 5-10 minutes. Maybe i’m missing something about what people are actually complaining?

2. If you mean you get DR for doing different paths of the same dungeon too quickly, then I’m sure that is a bug, and not an intended feature of the system. I was under the impressions that people would like to run the same path indefinitely and get the same rewards…

who cares? we can argue amongst ourselves all we want, but Anet is gonna do what they wanna do. If they wanted to remove DR, it would be gone. So obviously, our “suggestions” might be appreciated, but aren’t considered in the slightest bit. Either deal with it and keep playing, or do like myself and probably thousands of other people and stop playing and move on. Plenty of new games are going to launch this year so there’s no reason to get caught up on this BS game that sets an expectation, takes your money, then completely screws over half their playerbase. I came here to farm, and since they won’t let me farm the way I want, I’ve moved on. I’d suggest you do the same cuz whining about it isn’t going to change anything.

morrolan.9608:

Anything exotic requires grinding whether from gold or from exotic mats.

I haven’t found this to be the case. I’m in full exotics (four weapons and full armour) as of today when I finished saving for the boots.

I’ve just been doing world exploration, gathering, and crafting, and I haven’t had any trouble accumulating the gold and karma I needed over time. I just didn’t get it as fast as people doing the same most profitable things over and over… but I never felt like I was grinding, it was just gameplay.

Obviously some exotics cost more than others, and I cut down my gold costs by buying some of my stuff with karma. I’m not saying no one would ever have to work harder than I have to get what they need. I’m just saying that in my experience, it’s not true that anything exotic is super duper hard to get.

I’ve found that making sure you do the dailies every day (on the days you have time to log in, obviously) is a big help. It’s a pretty large payoff compared to the modest effort it takes, and most of it is stuff you’d be doing anyway when you’re exploring.

I agree it needs to go, i dont want to craft to make money, i like to “FARM” to make money, and i shouldnt be punished trying to earn legit money, to buy things i would like to have. This “antigrind” mechanic forces people to buy gold.

Answer this.

If u want to log on guild wars 2 for 6 hours a day and grind and farm the same area over and over WHY THE HELL NOT?

There is no legit reason why I should not be able to do this as long ss im not a gold farmer or a bot.

Oh boy. All these replies consisting of “I myself and me personally am not going to grind for a legendary so I think that DR is a good thing because it stops grinding”. Noone needs your opinion. If there is something in the game that can be obtained, regardless of it being required or a personal choice, you should be able to farm it and not get punished for doing so. /thread

I agree with the OP. Now that there is a dedicated team banning bots there is no need for another restrictive system. Sometimes i just want to mindlessly kill the same mobs for a drop(like armored scales for a legendary). Also now that plinx is nerfed to the ground there is no reason for karma DR either.

1 Make huge long grinds necessary for attaining the best stuff in the game(legendarys).
2 Put in a system that discourages and punishes you for grinding.

Wat?

supergica.8652:

1. Sorry, but as long as you can do the same events for hours and always get the same average drop per greens/blues/rares and materials, i don’t see where the DR is.

But you don’t get the same average drop, that’s the problem.

I never saw personally or heard a guildie complain that no items drop killing something, other then the occasionally 10 minutes of bad luck and porous bones.
Seriously, i personally farmed the same 5-6 mobs for hours and always got the same average loot per 5-10 minutes. Maybe i’m missing something about what people are actually complaining?

“It didn’t happen to me, therefore it did not happen”. I’m not even going to point out all the wrong here.

2. If you mean you get DR for doing different paths of the same dungeon too quickly, then I’m sure that is a bug, and not an intended feature of the system.

Apparently punishing players for being good is a feature now. Next thing we’ll hit DR on fractals 1.