Guild Wars 2

Yeah tbh these two are the first NPCs in a long time that actually do something remotely useful instead of lying around dead for a fight and ressing at the end. Sometimes I even bothered to res them (and that weird devourer) in combat, knowing that they’d probably survive to the end and not just get me in an endless circle of revives.

I really wish they’d update their AI like this in general, and make (at least some of) the game’s open world content less wimpy at the same time. Too much of it is either pathetically easy, or becomes ‘difficult’ by just killing you with a stern glance. Both these options are largely bad and should be replaced with more middle-ground.

Rox saved our behinds in the boss fight. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Pixelpumpkin.4608:

Rox saved our behinds in the boss fight. I couldn’t believe my eyes.

Is this true? Wow I’m exited that Anet works on their NPC-AI, I wonder if they still go on and improve it even more… perhaps to the point where dungeon-scaling could work down to 1 player because there are Heroes (NPCs) in your group, like in GW1.

As much as I disliked the dungeon itself I did find this mechanic of actually semi-useful npcs very good and hope it carries on to future projects.

…but let’s not forget past projects, which could also use updated AI. Some of it could stand to be passed on to enemies as well (maybe sans the revive, though that would be truly hilarious and a little disconcerting).

there is actually no difference between Rox, Braham AI and older NPCs like Rytlock AI.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Molten-facility-Living-story-team/first#post1938879

Robert: “The NPCs all share the same AI. There’s no AI difference between Rytlock, Rox, or Magg (CoF) aside from the skills that they use….”

I loved all the prisoners you save, they would all help rez you, and there was about 8 of them doing it together at one point, almost impossible to wipe with that much support.

I liked, more than anything, that Braham actually intelligently used his shield of absorption. Rob Hrouda tells us that this is nothing special for the AI, but I was genuinely impressed when Braham blocked like 12 incoming projectiles at once with his timing. I’ve played FotM 48 with some Guardians who aren’t as useful as him, and that’s saying something.

Rising Dusk.2408:

I liked, more than anything, that Braham actually intelligently used his shield of absorption. Rob Hrouda tells us that this is nothing special for the AI, but I was genuinely impressed when Braham blocked like 12 incoming projectiles at once with his timing. I’ve played FotM 48 with some Guardians who aren’t as useful as him, and that’s saying something.

I was impressed with Braham too, he’s very resilient for an NPC and the first in a long time that I’ve actually wanted to res mid-battle because he could turn the tide.

I was disappointed in Braham. After the final boss, he closed the door on me and left inside to die to the bomb explosions. That kitten. Never trust a Norn.

yeah they’re definitely a step forward, but i’d have liked it if they were more player-like in their attack loops. instead of doing a mace combo or firing an arrow every 3 seconds or so, keep the autoattacks going on and on, like any person with common sense would do.

a downed state would also go a long way to make people revive them mid-battle, instead of going from low-health straight to dead. BTW, do they have healing skills of their own?

and fun fact, even Rox has trouble keeping her pet alive :P

Paul Belz.7351:

Braham also revives any dead players after you kill the first of the final bosses and progress to phase 2 ;p

so now I’m confused, there is actually a difference in AI?

awe extender.1908:

For the first time ever ally NPCs are competent and actually able to fight and support!

During the last boss in Molten Weapons Facility dungeon, I was rezzed by either Braham or Rox!

I think it’s awesome that they are actively engaged in the event!

I was paranoid that they’d be like Trahearne in some ways but was pleasantly surprised to find that they had personality. Not that T-hearne set a high bar.

Braham’s “Why do you get to be the ram >:c” comment is my fave so far.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

so now I’m confused, there is actually a difference in AI?

no reason to think the devs are lying, so i’m going with “no”. however, braham and rox have a broader range of skills to use, so they feel more useful.

Frosty and Frosty Law Firm.4981:

awe extender.1908:

For the first time ever ally NPCs are competent and actually able to fight and support!

During the last boss in Molten Weapons Facility dungeon, I was rezzed by either Braham or Rox!

I think it’s awesome that they are actively engaged in the event!

I was paranoid that they’d be like Trahearne in some ways but was pleasantly surprised to find that they had personality. Not that T-hearne set a high bar.

Braham’s “Why do you get to be the ram >:c” comment is my fave so far.

“Oh we’re so dead” is my favorite, because that’s exactly the kind of thing i’d have said as soon as the cutscene ended lol.

BrunoBRS.5178:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

so now I’m confused, there is actually a difference in AI?

no reason to think the devs are lying, so i’m going with “no”. however, braham and rox have a broader range of skills to use, so they feel more useful.

I’m not saying anyone is lying, still I’m confused since reviving is a skill all NPCs have. So now the new NPCs realize that players are downed – isn’t this an AI-improvement?

All I can say is that both Rox and Braham seem to stay alive for a lot longer than NPCs on previous dungeon runs of mine (including every member of Destiny’s Edge).

Staying alive, they deal damage and revive (and are actually worth reviving, too, now). It makes them feel like a part of the team, at least more than any of the other NPCs I’ve encountered before, which I usually completely ignore.

Paul Belz.7351:

It’s not something that braham can do in any situation, its part of his script that when we go to boss phase 2, he uses the revive everyone skill.

ah, that makes sense now, thanks for clarification. I want more of those scripts

The two actually do feel like they are apart of the team rather than just dead weight like other NPCs. It’s such a breath of fresh air!

Honestly? I didn’t see any competance at all. First room, they’re both KOed along with the other NPCs in the room—I couldn’t even go res them, as the Veterans kept lurking right on top of their bodies despite me trying to pull them off. Eventually got tired of having my armor damaged and gave up. They were a lot more useful in the previous pair of instances, really. :-/ Bad enough this is a Dungeon, but you could at least make the Heroes as worth working with as the ones you get in GW1.

Paul Belz.7351:

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Paul Belz.7351:

Braham also revives any dead players after you kill the first of the final bosses and progress to phase 2 ;p

so now I’m confused, there is actually a difference in AI?

It’s not something that braham can do in any situation, its part of his script that when we go to boss phase 2, he uses the revive everyone skill.

that reminds me, that “revive everyone after everyone dies” skill didn’t work on my character at least once. like, the whole party got revived, but my character just stood there dead.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

there is actually no difference between Rox, Braham AI and older NPCs like Rytlock AI.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/dungeons/Molten-facility-Living-story-team/first#post1938879

Robert: “The NPCs all share the same AI. There’s no AI difference between Rytlock, Rox, or Magg (CoF) aside from the skills that they use….”

I think you’re mixing two subjects here: he seems to be saying that it doesn’t work any differently, which I’m sure is true – all they do is follow someone around, fight things, and occasionally res someone or each other, all of which can be found in other NPC’s – but the skills they have do make a very noticeable difference to their effectiveness in gameplay.

If you watch some generic NPC in the world get into a fight with something, often they just stand there staring each other in the face, using an attack every few seconds, and occasionally something from a small pool of abilities. Often very useless ones. Ever seen Iron Legion Engineers drop a net turret, stand in place anyway, drop a medkit they aren’t even aware of to walk into, and throw a wimpy little grenade now and again? Yet, they’d be so much less pathetic if they’d do something as simple as dropping a healing turret instead.

So many of the things in the world (allied and enemy alike) feel a breeze start to blow and cough up some meaningless utility then fall on their faces and die. Granted with some enemies it doesn’t matter as they’re so generic they could just make more of them to give us something to do instead, but it seems kind of silly when you’ve got some town/camp/base sending out patrols which just walk a few feet, fight, die. If you res them they just get into another fight and lose that, too. And if they encounter anything not in their (usually) two person group, even another of said groups, they won’t revive it regardless of friendly status.

Having some that are actually useful, even if far from being able to do all this themselves, is so much better after dealing with a world full of things not even worth the time it takes to revive them.

Marcus Greythorne.6843:

Paul Belz.7351:

Braham also revives any dead players after you kill the first of the final bosses and progress to phase 2 ;p

so now I’m confused, there is actually a difference in AI?

well if its screpted thats not really improved AI, HOW EVER it dose make the NPC far more usfull and give’s them the abuilty to do more than just get his butt kicked.

things like health and damage could have been changed aswell.

WTG for A-net useing there AI as a tool to help make the game more injoyable for the player and not just a way to drive a story forward.

It probably helps that Braham and Rox are apparently unaffected by environmental damage. During phase 2 of the final boss, Rox was happily standing in the outer tempest ring shooting arrows at the Firestorm without any ill effect.

But yeah, they’re actually quite useful and helpful as allies. I wish all NPC allies would come over and res you when you’re downed. XD

I like how Rox calls Braham a cub when she’s one too talking about brandy and all.

Vulpis.8063:

Honestly? I didn’t see any competance at all. First room, they’re both KOed along with the other NPCs in the room—I couldn’t even go res them, as the Veterans kept lurking right on top of their bodies despite me trying to pull them off. Eventually got tired of having my armor damaged and gave up. They were a lot more useful in the previous pair of instances, really. :-/ Bad enough this is a Dungeon, but you could at least make the Heroes as worth working with as the ones you get in GW1.

GW1 heroes were meant to be substitutes for actual players. These are not. Even henchmen were meant to do more. These are around more for flavor/context/story telling (for example in the beginning sequence with the drill it wouldn’t make a lot of sense for the player character to suddenly have knowledge about how to work dredge machinery). That makes a huge difference in what they should and should not do. Ideally they should not be dead weights. Only part where I would have considered them dead weights was when Rox was shooting arrows into the earth elementals’ reflective shields.

As for doing better in the previous instances, that is to be expected since those didn’t involve any silver mobs.

Those oozes man, good god..

I don’t know what is so different about these NPCs that they survive much and much longer than other NPCs.

I believe they simply have alot more health, they actively resurrect you and their skills (ranged -Rox, defensive guardian – Braham) do let them survive longer. I think any NPC worth noting needs that amount of defense, versus the amount of offense. It’s usually better to have them around and ressing than trying to damage (in melee) while not even being able dodge stuff.

I think because these NPCs resurrect you AND survive is what makes them an asset instead of “trying to help with extra damage” because that’s something we don’t feel directly as a party anyway, as basically any player will do triple the damage of any NPC no matter how many skills they have.

Of course the skills of Braham and Rox are helping them even more to be an asset. Mace heals Braham himself and his shield and boons keep the part alive, Rox’ poison rain helps with healing foes and slows them down as well. These are very visual attacks as well.

It would be cool if such a defensive/ressurecting/visual ability strategy would be applies to all the NPCs worth noting.

I actually hated Braham lol. Or, more then him, his shield of absorbition! Since I play here a guardian (and another guildmate with whom I usually play also has one), the only effect his shield has is to deball the previously balled mobs. So we always end up with 1 guard tu ball them for Braham, he then proceeds sending them all over the place with shield, and the second guardian can finally bind them agian to ball them for the slaughter.

It is frustrating as much as it is fun tough! : )
It really is hilarious!

Paul Belz.7351:

Braham also revives any dead players after you kill the first of the final bosses and progress to phase 2 ;p

Hey, Braham, there’s this gal named Lupi I’d like to introduce you to next time I have to see her…

Khisanth.2948:

Vulpis.8063:

Honestly? I didn’t see any competance at all. First room, they’re both KOed along with the other NPCs in the room—I couldn’t even go res them, as the Veterans kept lurking right on top of their bodies despite me trying to pull them off. Eventually got tired of having my armor damaged and gave up. They were a lot more useful in the previous pair of instances, really. :-/ Bad enough this is a Dungeon, but you could at least make the Heroes as worth working with as the ones you get in GW1.

GW1 heroes were meant to be substitutes for actual players. These are not. Even henchmen were meant to do more. These are around more for flavor/context/story telling (for example in the beginning sequence with the drill it wouldn’t make a lot of sense for the player character to suddenly have knowledge about how to work dredge machinery). That makes a huge difference in what they should and should not do. Ideally they should not be dead weights. Only part where I would have considered them dead weights was when Rox was shooting arrows into the earth elementals’ reflective shields.

As for doing better in the previous instances, that is to be expected since those didn’t involve any silver mobs.

So what you’re telling me is that the people designing missions for GW2 are absolutely worthless at it, compared to the ones who did the ones for GW1? In GW1, you could do the story from beginning to end with just the resources you’re given. Blech—no wonder the GW1 players I know who picked up GW2 at launch now absolutely refuse to play it. :-/ And these were the folks they kicked the Paragon crew out for. :-(

They both died just as much as any NPC before. They’d only try to res us if they were right on top of us, then they’d get attacked and either die or run off. Poor Frostbite died the most, if not at every encounter. Braham’s mass revive is a little OP, considering he can cast it dead.

Pennry.9215:

They both died just as much as any NPC before. They’d only try to res us if they were right on top of us, then they’d get attacked and either die or run off. Poor Frostbite died the most, if not at every encounter. Braham’s mass revive is a little OP, considering he can cast it dead.

Frostbite appears to be the world’s sole melee devourer, and thus is always inside fields of fire and such. Though sometimes I take a break to revive him/her/it simply because I can never see through the effects well enough to know whether it’s been doing anything useful.

I miss it when Frostbite would auto-res himself like he did in Rox’s instance. :/

I had a pretty epic battle on that boss in one of my runs. We were killing the berserker first and just powering him down and not really paying attention to the boss mechanics, everyone ended up dying when he was getting low in health, save for a Charr necromancer who was soloing him for about 3 minutes. Then he got downed and right as he was about to be defeated managed to kill the berserker. Braham revives everyone and the day is saved!

Vulpis.8063:

So what you’re telling me is that the people designing missions for GW2 are absolutely worthless at it, compared to the ones who did the ones for GW1? In GW1, you could do the story from beginning to end with just the resources you’re given. Blech—no wonder the GW1 players I know who picked up GW2 at launch now absolutely refuse to play it. :-/ And these were the folks they kicked the Paragon crew out for. :-(

What he is saying Dungeon Friendly NPCs are NOT the equivalence of heroes and henchman from Guild Wars 1.

Also, this content is NOT balanced for solo play. But balanced for 5 players. The NPCs do not count towards this.

However compared to previous dungeon NPCs from GW2, Rox and Braham seem to be visually contributing ressing and staying alive while doing so.

(also I logged 10k hours on GW1, and am absolutely enjoying GW2, and our core guild members from GW1 are still playing GW2 every day)

During all my runs, Braham dies midway thru phase 1 of the boss fight and stays dead through phase 1. He tends to die pretty early in phase 2 also. We’re always too busy rezzing each other and dodging AoE to rez him too. :P

Broham is pretty useless, now Rox… Rox is a BAMF and I love her and her poison barrage!

FrizzFreston.5290:

Vulpis.8063:

So what you’re telling me is that the people designing missions for GW2 are absolutely worthless at it, compared to the ones who did the ones for GW1? In GW1, you could do the story from beginning to end with just the resources you’re given. Blech—no wonder the GW1 players I know who picked up GW2 at launch now absolutely refuse to play it. :-/ And these were the folks they kicked the Paragon crew out for. :-(

What he is saying Dungeon Friendly NPCs are NOT the equivalence of heroes and henchman from Guild Wars 1.

Also, this content is NOT balanced for solo play. But balanced for 5 players. The NPCs do not count towards this.

However compared to previous dungeon NPCs from GW2, Rox and Braham seem to be visually contributing ressing and staying alive while doing so.

(also I logged 10k hours on GW1, and am absolutely enjoying GW2, and our core guild members from GW1 are still playing GW2 every day)

That’s a shame. At least in GW1 I was allowed to complete all the storyline content. Here, I’m not allowed to finish unless I’m a dungeoneer. :-( Whee, One True Way. I thought the big selling point of Guild Wars was not doing that anymore.

Durzlla.6295:

Broham is pretty useless, now Rox… Rox is a BAMF and I love her and her poison barrage!

Her name is Rox for a reason :P and I guess why she calls Braham cub lols. He is usually first to die xD.