Guild Wars 2

Asia Skyly.7198:

I posted as much elsewhere. The reward should be 10s/personal level. 3g at 30 seems fair. The challenge/length is sufficient to justify it.

I assumed this would be the case:
Lv. 1-10: 1 gold
Lv. 11-20: 2 gold
Lv. 21-30: 3 gold
Lv. 31-40: 4 gold
Lv. 41-50: 5 gold

This would make a lot more sense, given the time commitment and difficulty required and a simple comparison to dungeons rewards.

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to scale the rewards possibly.

Lopez.7369:

Asia Skyly.7198:

I posted as much elsewhere. The reward should be 10s/personal level. 3g at 30 seems fair. The challenge/length is sufficient to justify it.

I assumed this would be the case:
Lv. 1-10: 1 gold
Lv. 11-20: 2 gold
Lv. 21-30: 3 gold
Lv. 31-40: 4 gold
Lv. 41-50: 5 gold

This would make a lot more sense, given the time commitment and difficulty required and a simple comparison to dungeons rewards.

and repair bills…

Kain Francois.4328:

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to scale the rewards possibly.

You and me both, you and me both!

Nevermind the fact that in addition to being harder than just about any dungeon, fractals require specific, often RNG related, gear! So there is a gear check, there is difficulty, there is the length of time (Yesterday we got a Cliffside/Dredge fractal… The Joys)!

I do not get it. I do not understand why they reward something like Champion farming, but something that requires teamwork and effort gets caca for rewards.

Seeing as this is the ONLY content in game that requires time/coin/laurals or other resources to get AR added along with the time prison it locks us into~~~ FoM is severely under rewarded. Rush-stack-melee dungeon paths offer more for a lot less time/coin investment & headache.
I can play 3-4 FoM daily "box reward’ levels each day for 6 months & not recover half of the coin it cost to get my AR~ in the sense I choose to spend my 2-3 hrs locked into one portion of game knowing FoM content rewards less than other content~ I am in reality LOSING money that would easily be made elsewhere even in open world PvE. FoM is a GOLD SINK for players that like it.
To play past lvl 10 for others is a total waste of time if they don’t like FoM or need to make coin during their game time to meet their other needs ~which sadly depletes the population options for those that like to climb the ladder. hehehe C’est la vie.

Kain Francois.4328:

I don’t understand why it’s so hard to scale the rewards possibly.

Because anet =/= logic

ItWasntMe.7102:

Seeing as this is the ONLY content in game that requires time/coin/laurals or other resources to get AR added along with the time prison it locks us into~~~ FoM is severely under rewarded. Rush-stack-melee dungeon paths offer more for a lot less time/coin investment & headache.
I can play 3-4 FoM daily "box reward’ levels each day for 6 months & not recover half of the coin it cost to get my AR~ in the sense I choose to spend my 2-3 hrs locked into one portion of game knowing FoM content rewards less than other content~ I am in reality LOSING money that would easily be made elsewhere even in open world PvE. FoM is a GOLD SINK for players that like it.
To play past lvl 10 for others is a total waste of time if they don’t like FoM or need to make coin during their game time to meet their other needs ~which sadly depletes the population options for those that like to climb the ladder. hehehe C’est la vie.

Really good point. I’ve already sunk quite a bit of gold into agony resist.

What most of the people whining here don’t realize is that fotm gives good value for money. It is not in form of gold but in tokens. Let’s do some math shall we?
dungeoning : 20 slot bag=10G for Superior rune of holding+ mats fotm: Do a 36 net 121 tokens you only need 150 relics for a 20 slot bag from fractal merchant that is about 8g(121/150) worth. how about ascended rings which you can’t get from dungeon then?
Next is the backpiece for 1850 relics you can get an ascended stat backpiece. Quiver of Swift Flight which has the in demand zerk stat costs 50 ectos and 250 powerful blood costs 100G more or less to make (with ectos and P blood@33.5s at current TP rates) dividing it gives you a value of 5.4 silver PER fractal relic.
An experienced group can finish a 36 fotm within an hr and 15mins average and net 121 relics 6.5G worth +1.2G=7.7g. That same group can also finish fast dungeons like cof 1 se 1 ac 1 3 and hotw 1 in the same amount of time for 7.3 gold( 6g from daily and 1.3g from default). Also as inflation drives the prices up for ectos and t6 needed to craft backpieces relics equivalent will go up correspondingly. You can however repeat a lower level o higher fractal catergory (10-19 20-29 etc) while you can’t say the same for dungeon and get same rewards.

I would imagine most people doing high-level fractals either already have all of the items that can be bought through tokens or don’t care about them. So that analysis doesn’t work.

That’s actually another problem with both dungeons and fractals: Currently, tokens lose their worth quite quickly. Although it’s at least possible to buy salvageable exotic and rare items with dungeon tokens.

Your argument is off the issue when what is being discussed is reward value for doing a fractal compared to dungeons. For the sake of discussion i will indulge you. This fotm revamp is to encourage new players to try it out and for new players that still lacks ascended gear it is a boon to them. You seem to forget that if you make a new alt and wish to gear them up my post is still valid. Another thing is with the changes to karma and consumables no longer drop as often and failing events no longer gives karma, accumulating karma is no longer as easy as it once was? Relics can be traded for obsidian stones while excess dungeon tokens can be traded for rares to salvage for ectos. Even if you are full geared and dont need much of anything from fractals and dungeons, knowing how to convert tokens and relics to more usable forms is the key to retain their value.

The point is high-level fractals are disproportionately unrewarding compared to dungeons. You can try to add whatever factors you wish, but it’s not convincing anyone because the things you listed aren’t what a lot of players care about.

What most people are saying in this thread is the general opinion of the fractal community. ArenaNet should take note.

Besides, nothing could make fractals more rewarding to new players than making them a viable way to earn gold.

The mere fact anet added at least some gold is better than nothing. Some people just doesn’t have any satisfaction. Anet wants play diversity if you haven’t noticed it by now. I admit at this point that the new fractals added some challenge and all of those doing fractals are still coming to grip with the new changes but will get more efficient in doing them as time goes by. I am not trying to persuade you or anyone of my point but rather give you a perspective of the value of rewards of fractals and why i believe anet think that the current rewards is just and on the side, those you say do high level fractals and have all they need from fractals do if for the sake fun and challenge of doing fractals.

You’re constructing a lot of straw man arguments in your posts. This thread is specifically about gold reward. Of course the current gold reward is better than nothing. The complaint is that it could and should be better, given the difficulty, time requirement and cost of fractals and comparisons to rewards in other content.

Considering arah p1&2 reward 3 gold each and take like 20 minutes, yeah I’d say the gold reward is lowballed.

Comparing rewards from dungeon to dungeon almost makes as little sense as comparing dungeons to fractals.

I’m also not sure why the most mindless content — champion and Dolyak farming — is way more rewarding than difficult content that requires organization, including fractals or dungeons.

This is just, I don’t know what to say even. Come one, while fixing fractals just fix the stupid reward numbers… How hard is that?

Lopez.7369:

How does this make sense? COF path 1 takes roughly 10 minutes. Lv. 31 fractals take about an hour.

This scale would make a lot more sense:
Lv. 1-10: 1 gold
Lv. 11-20: 2 gold
Lv. 21-30: 3 gold
Lv. 31-40: 4 gold
Lv. 41-50: 5 gold

This would make a lot more sense, given the time commitment and difficulty required and a simple comparison to dungeons rewards.

1st of all CoF takes 6.1/2 minutes to finish.
2nd 1g30s for a lv 30 fractal is insulting !
3rd what the bleep is A.net thinking !
4th adaptive rewards per fractal lv bracket is what I expected when they announced a revamp.
5th the OP gold to difficulty ratios is what I expected to get

Yes gold reward is hugely unbalanced. One gold and few silvers is no reward for fractals. If this update was supposed to bring balance in gold reward it faild becouse fractals are much more time consuming and harder then any dungeon, even Arah if you dont get all easiest fractals and that is very rare.

While I agree with the gold rewards implimented being underwhelming by a lot, I have to look to the future a bit and the totals.

1st off, as many of us get used to the new changes this will become more time efficient. Not as time efficient for gold as COF or SE or Arah, but it will improve.

2nd, gold is not the only thing, but you need to look at the total value of all the loot you get. And I have to say, so far, my average is 2 exotic pieces per completed fractal + a whole bunch of rares and cores and from what I see, a far better T6 drops rate then the other 3 places.

So the direct gold reward can not be focused on just yet, but rather be part of the total after the time per completion becomes better and averages out.

If your average is two exotics per fractal run, I want your luck.

I usually end with a two to four rares. I sometimes get an exotic.

But the same actually applies to dungeons when accounting for general loot and dungeon tokens, except dungeons are considerably shorter.

Lopez.7369:

How does this make sense? COF path 1 takes roughly 10 minutes. Lv. 31 fractals take about an hour.

This scale would make a lot more sense:
Lv. 1-10: 1 gold
Lv. 11-20: 2 gold
Lv. 21-30: 3 gold
Lv. 31-40: 4 gold
Lv. 41-50: 5 gold

This would make a lot more sense, given the time commitment and difficulty required and a simple comparison to dungeons rewards.

Not to sound rude..but why don’t you take the 10 minutes to CoF, another 15 to do twilight..i’ve been part of team that did arah p3 in 16 minutes..45 minutes and you’ve got your daily gold..now go do fractals where agony infusions are currently selling 1.5G for a +2 and your reward. I played a lvl 9 today and although i have fairly usable magic find I received 1 vial of mist, 4 powerful blood, 1 exotic from chest and 3 rares..it made the entire lvl 9 worth all up 5.5g in drops/rewards. I personally think that is fairly adequate and I was only lvl 9.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Lopez.7369:

How does this make sense? COF path 1 takes roughly 10 minutes. Lv. 31 fractals take about an hour.

This scale would make a lot more sense:
Lv. 1-10: 1 gold
Lv. 11-20: 2 gold
Lv. 21-30: 3 gold
Lv. 31-40: 4 gold
Lv. 41-50: 5 gold

This would make a lot more sense, given the time commitment and difficulty required and a simple comparison to dungeons rewards.

Not to sound rude..but why don’t you take the 10 minutes to CoF, another 15 to do twilight..i’ve been part of team that did arah p3 in 16 minutes..45 minutes and you’ve got your daily gold..now go do fractals where agony infusions are currently selling 1.5G for a +2 and your reward. I played a lvl 9 today and although i have fairly usable magic find I received 1 vial of mist, 4 powerful blood, 1 exotic from chest and 3 rares..it made the entire lvl 9 worth all up 5.5g in drops/rewards. I personally think that is fairly adequate and I was only lvl 9.

I guess u haven’t do fractals long enough. The new fracs 41+ are long and hard compare to any dungeons in the game, and the reward is terrible compare to those dungeons. Exotics drops are just random luck and the new agony infusions will go down in price like a week or 2 because they are hot sauce right now.

CntrlAltDefeat.1465:

Not to sound rude..but why don’t you take the 10 minutes to CoF, another 15 to do twilight..i’ve been part of team that did arah p3 in 16 minutes..45 minutes and you’ve got your daily gold..now go do fractals where agony infusions are currently selling 1.5G for a +2 and your reward. I played a lvl 9 today and although i have fairly usable magic find I received 1 vial of mist, 4 powerful blood, 1 exotic from chest and 3 rares..it made the entire lvl 9 worth all up 5.5g in drops/rewards. I personally think that is fairly adequate and I was only lvl 9.

Right. Dungeons are better gold. That’s the point of this thread.

Ascended gear and Fractal weapons are the reward, gold is just a bonus.

You all get it backwards. You get so few gold in order to keep the team together, because if you get like 5g for a run, you will see kicks happening and people selling fractal runs.

Not convincing? Ok, I tried. Maybe I’ll find a better reason next time.

i’ve never seen so many thumbs up posts in a single thread before

That’s why dredge fractal exists, to compensate the lack of proper reward.

It is ridiculous that this opportunity has just been blown away. What design process has lead to the thinking that this reward is balanced in any way? Did those involved in that process ever play fractals?

Dredge fractal gives about 30-50 miner’s bags = about 1g alone.

The +1 agony infusions sell about what, 30s still? You get about 5-6 per run, that’s another 1g~.

This is excluding the fractal relics, the chance to get fractal weapon skins, ascended weapon chests, and so on.

Lastly, a good party shouldn’t take 3 hours to complete a 38 fractal – even with Dredge involved.

Though even if I say this, the gold reward should increase based on the level, but I assume that’s happening already.

I completely agree, I think fractal level x0.1 would be a much better way of scaling rewards. So say i did a level 20 i get 2 gold or a level 32 i get 3.2 gold.

MassDelusion.9130:

Ascended gear and Fractal weapons are the reward, gold is just a bonus.

This philosophy makes little sense in the long term. There is a point where people don’t need or care to get ascended items anymore. That’s what happened with ascended rings before this patch, which left fractals fairly dead compared to other modes of content.

That’s especially true since fractals are nowhere close to the best source for ascended items outside of rings.

Tachii.3506:

Though even if I say this, the gold reward should increase based on the level, but I assume that’s happening already.

On what basis do you assume that?
They just released the big fractal patch and it wasnt implemented like that so it obviously wasn’t an issue for them 2 days ago.

Regarding the fractal relics i think the value of relics is realy high for people just starting with fractals, but as soon as you get everything you want from those they are nearly worthless, and especialy the people that get high in fractals probably will have no use for them realy soon.

Lopez.7369:

MassDelusion.9130:

Ascended gear and Fractal weapons are the reward, gold is just a bonus.

This philosophy makes little sense in the long term. There is a point where people don’t need or care to get ascended items anymore. That’s what happened with ascended rings before this patch, which left fractals fairly dead compared to other modes of content.

That’s especially true since fractals are nowhere close to the best source for ascended items outside of rings.

Then what’s the big deal? If you want to make gold, and that’s your only goal in the game, then you’d choose the best way to do so. If fractals is not the best way, then you don’t do them.

People who do fractals do it for their own reasons. If those reasons are fractal weapons, ascended weapon boxes, or the fun of completing the fractals themselves, so be it.

You’re not making an affirmative argument with these posts. You’re just status quo stonewalling. Of course people who play purely for gold will resort to other outlets, but there’s nothing that says it has to be this way.

In fact, it’s very basic game design that the most difficult content should be the most rewarding. That’s clearly not the case at the moment.

Besides, you’ve yet to explain a downside to increasing the gold reward in fractals. Why shouldn’t ArenaNet increase the gold reward to make it match other content?

Fractals give now quite a lot of rares now and are really easy, almost faceroll-ish.

Lopez.7369:

You’re not making an affirmative argument with these posts. You’re just status quo stonewalling. Of course people who play purely for gold will resort to other outlets, but there’s nothing that says it has to be this way.

In fact, it’s very basic game design that the most difficult content should be the most rewarding. That’s clearly not the case at the moment.

Besides, you’ve yet to explain a downside to increasing the gold reward in fractals. Why shouldn’t ArenaNet increase the gold reward to make it match other content?

Fractals are for those who want the challenge and the prestigious rare skins. The skins and chance of ascended boxes far exceeding other methods are more than enough to make up for the lower gold per hour.

I can’t repeat this enough.

it kinda seems to me like fractal is an end-game gold sink.

Excalibur.9748:

it kinda seems to me like fractal is an end-game gold sink.

How so?

Do you expect to wipe enough in a single fractal shard to damage your entire armor set 3 times? If not, then the single +1 AR infusion you get from that chest at the minimum will more than make up for the cost of whatever armor you get damaged throughout the run.

If anything, Fractals just gave its players a massive boost in earning potential from non-fractal players who wish to jump in the fray by buying their agony resistance directly.

they should nerf COF to 50 silver a run. COF is wayyyyy too easy.

AKGeo.6048:

Excalibur.9748:

it kinda seems to me like fractal is an end-game gold sink.

How so?

Do you expect to wipe enough in a single fractal shard to damage your entire armor set 3 times? If not, then the single +1 AR infusion you get from that chest at the minimum will more than make up for the cost of whatever armor you get damaged throughout the run.

If anything, Fractals just gave its players a massive boost in earning potential from non-fractal players who wish to jump in the fray by buying their agony resistance directly.

It is a gold sink actually.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony_Resistance
+13 agony infusions will cost you 61g on Thermocatalytic Reagents alone.
+15 agony infusions will cost you 735g on Thermocatalytic Reagents alone.

+15 agony infusions will require 32768x +1 agony infusions

Level 30+ should be 100% chance of at least 1 exotic + 2 rares + 5 G
Level 40+ should be 100% chance of at least 2 exotics + 3 rares + 10 G

kiwituatara.6053:

AKGeo.6048:

Excalibur.9748:

it kinda seems to me like fractal is an end-game gold sink.

How so?

Do you expect to wipe enough in a single fractal shard to damage your entire armor set 3 times? If not, then the single +1 AR infusion you get from that chest at the minimum will more than make up for the cost of whatever armor you get damaged throughout the run.

If anything, Fractals just gave its players a massive boost in earning potential from non-fractal players who wish to jump in the fray by buying their agony resistance directly.

It is a gold sink actually.
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony_Resistance
+13 agony infusions will cost you 61g on Thermocatalytic Reagents alone.
+15 agony infusions will cost you 735g on Thermocatalytic Reagents alone.

+15 agony infusions will require 32768x +1 agony infusions

And who the hell needs a +15 agony infusion at level 50, when you can get 40AR with weapon, two rings, two earrings, backpiece and amulet not even infused? And 55AR quite easily with only 160 +1 infusions? Not to mention those who already had their 55AR total prior to the patch and grandfathered +5 infusions in their infused rings. Those guys can farm up to level 50 until they raise the cap and odds are they’ll have ascended armor by then, which adds another potential 30 AGONY RESISTANCE for 75 relics per piece.

You guys are making mountains out of molehills, here. You don’t need to get maximum AR right off the bat, especially when minimum required AR currently can be had stupid easy.

Short attention spans…I keep saying it. Instantaneous gratification is not a worthwhile trait to have.

AKGeo.6048:

And who the hell needs a +15 agony infusion at level 50, when you can get 40AR with weapon, two rings, two earrings, backpiece and amulet not even infused? And 55AR quite easily with only 160 +1 infusions? Not to mention those who already had their 55AR total prior to the patch and grandfathered +5 infusions in their infused rings. Those guys can farm up to level 50 until they raise the cap and odds are they’ll have ascended armor by then, which adds another potential 30 AGONY RESISTANCE for 75 relics per piece.

You guys are making mountains out of molehills, here. You don’t need to get maximum AR right off the bat, especially when minimum required AR currently can be had stupid easy.

Short attention spans…I keep saying it. Instantaneous gratification is not a worthwhile trait to have.

And with Level 50 needing around 65 – 70 AR it’s actually making a lot of sense how it currently works.

3x +10 AR infusion will give you 70 AR. And it’s quite affordable in it’s current state.

It also looks like ascended armor might not have infusion slots, although they probably add those at the last possible moment.

eekzie.5640:

AKGeo.6048:

And who the hell needs a +15 agony infusion at level 50, when you can get 40AR with weapon, two rings, two earrings, backpiece and amulet not even infused? And 55AR quite easily with only 160 +1 infusions? Not to mention those who already had their 55AR total prior to the patch and grandfathered +5 infusions in their infused rings. Those guys can farm up to level 50 until they raise the cap and odds are they’ll have ascended armor by then, which adds another potential 30 AGONY RESISTANCE for 75 relics per piece.

You guys are making mountains out of molehills, here. You don’t need to get maximum AR right off the bat, especially when minimum required AR currently can be had stupid easy.

Short attention spans…I keep saying it. Instantaneous gratification is not a worthwhile trait to have.

And with Level 50 needing around 65 – 70 AR it’s actually making a lot of sense how it currently works.

3x +10 AR infusion will give you 70 AR. And it’s quite affordable in it’s current state.

Who says you need 70AR in a level 50? That makes no sense, you should be able to survive in a level 50 with 55AR. Source on this?

AKGeo.6048:

Who says you need 70AR in a level 50? That makes no sense, you should be able to survive in a level 50 with 55AR. Source on this?

60 AR would still be somewhat doable I think, depending on which fractals you end up with. Would still be a really tough challenge. 65 is still hard. 70 would be needed for the less hardcore people.

55 AR perhaps with the best of teams and really easy rolls.

You get hit for 18% HP for like 5 ticks in a row. So pretty much every 10 – odd seconds one or more party members downs. And during the AR ticks, healing is also reduced so it’s hard to counter.