Guild Wars 2

Short Version: This post kinda got away from me. I hate Mai Trinn, and strongly desire a way to avoid any encounters with her in the fractals of the mists. But in writing about it, I realized there are no doubt other people who feel the same way whether about Mai or other potential fractal encounters. Thus I’m asking about/requesting an ability to remove fractals we might not want from the potential rotation.

Long version:

So I read over the preview stuff for the new fractal improvements, and it pretty much all looks like cool fun stuff except for one thing. One terrible horrible thing: Mai Trinn is coming back.

The frustration started the moment she appeared and I had to hold the idiot ball repeatedly and stupidly not realize she was behind the dragon bash problems even though it was super obvious. And not just once! I had to let her finish off Leo Ashford with her “help” the first time, then I had to let her go even after she got pegged by the magic detector the second time.

Then came her dungeon boss fight, where she was spectacularly overpowered and utilized powers that had no explanation and made no story sense at all. She apparently has a shield that makes her functionally immortal unless hit with a very specific attack from her own first mate. Why then is Mai anywhere near Horrik? If they had any brains at all they would be on opposite sides of the continent so she could be completely unstoppable. In fact speaking of that why didn’t Mai just turn on the shield when she got busted in Lions Arch and proceed to wipe out everyone in the area she didn’t like? It’s not like Horrik was around then to mess up her godshield. It made no sense at all, and yet there she was, somehow suddenly more powerful than Zhaitan himself slicing through legions of heroes like they were nothing.

And then, then when we finally finally managed to beat her she pulls an “I surrender, suckers!” robbing you of any actual victory and then doesn’t even have the decency to tell you anything as she sits smugly in her cell in Lions Arch where she has stayed mocking us to this day.

I wouldn’t normally bring this up, or dredge up the negative feelings of the past like this except that now she’s apparently coming back “more dangerous than ever” from the sound of the fractured preview page, and it kinda turns my stomach to think that any time I go in for fractal stuff there is apparently a good chance she’ll appear and really seriously ruin my time in the game.

I can’t be the only one who feels like this. And I’m sure Mai Trinn is not the only encounter that inspires this feeling in people. Fractals are not exactly easy, nor are they low risk/low investment, but as it is they’re very much a roll of the dice on if you’ll get something fun or not. I understand that there is supposed to be an element of randomness in fractals, but would it be too out of line to include -some- way of narrowing down the potential scenarios we end up in? Maybe make it so if the player has completed a fractal enough times they can “stabilize” it and remove it from the rotation if they wish?

I’d really like to be able to feel like I’m not gambling time and energy on the hope that I don’t get blasted with a Mai instance every time I step into a fractal.

So basically make it possible to just run the 4 fastest/easiest Fractals for fast and easy loot?

Part of the point of the Fractals is that you don’t know what you will face.

Hey, if you hate her so much, you should be happy to be able to maul her every now and then.

Personally, i actually liked that boss fight. We just have to see if, and how much, it was changed.

I hope though that it balances out, because the Jade Maw is a lot easier than Mai Trin as a boss. Maybe tone down Mai Trin a bit for the Fractal?

While I understand the sentiment (I dread the Volcanic fractal, as I’ve just had too many groups that can’t handle the end boss), the randomness is part of the dungeon concept, so I have to disagree with your suggestion.

Giving people the option to pick and choose their fractals would give people free reign to never do anything but the Swamp, Aquatic Ruins, and Snowblind, for example.

I think an option to remove 1 fractal (either regular or boss) from the rotation would be nice, but other than that I don’t see any way to “narrow down” the potential fractals without options for abuse.

In my opinion, the only thing that needs to be done with Mai Trin (and hopefully they did this) for Fractals is to cut down the bomb phases. Two 30-second bomb phases at 66/33 percent would be fine. The 90 second bomb phase at 25% was extremely painful.

If you cant doge aoe circles by now you really shouldn’t be doing high level fractals. What would hurt more is if cannons give agony

Fafnir.5124:

If you cant doge aoe circles by now you really shouldn’t be doing high level fractals. What would hurt more is if cannons give agony

I want the room to also give environment permanent cripple to make it even worse.

Fafnir.5124:

If you cant doge aoe circles by now you really shouldn’t be doing high level fractals. What would hurt more is if cannons give agony

There is a difference between dodging red circles and having to run around an arena just ahead of them for a combined total of 3 minutes per fight.

yes

each person has there on grid of cannon fire so if you group up there is no place to doge spreading out and doging your own circles is the best way

TBH, I only did her once and we did the run as a group as that was recommended at the time. The 90 seconds was just a long time when it came to cooldowns and such and at least 2 people died every time. If being on your own is better, I will have to try that strategy when I fight her again (Thanks for the tip!).

I still think 90 seconds is a bit long for one bomb phase in itself (even if it is just avoiding your own set of circles) as the fight already takes quite a bit of time.

I’d just make the barrages shorter, and reduce the damage from them, put replacing the damage lost with Agony.

The less you can endure the barrages, the more agony resistance you’ll need. Either get better, or grind your way up. Just like in good RPGS. All get there, but worse players get there later, and earn less as they have to spend more on gear.

And if you add an achievement for not being hit, people with the skill to avoid them gets the achievement. The rest just get the loot from the boss chest as always.

dodging the cannon blast is a simple side step inbetween the checkers so you don’t need to move far at all to avoid if you disperse and stand still. Vs runing around.

Fafnir.5124:

dodging the cannon blast is a simple side step inbetween the checkers so you don’t need to move far at all to avoid if you disperse and stand still. Vs runing around.

agreed. only issue with this strat is that with five players, spreading out is a bit… tricky. Do you have 4 in the corners, and one in the middle? Form a pentagon? Sometimes i find the group manages it just fine keeping all five alive, but other times, I’ll be in a group where one person ends up dying due to people getting too close to each other, and the rest end up fine after the sacrificial lamb dies, ressing the dead one after the cannon phase ends.

Mai Trin is one of the very few named villain characters in the Living Story so she is worth a little appreciation at least, even if her story was obvious. She’s a better enemy than ‘an aetherblade captain’, ‘a toxic baroness’, ‘a molten bezerker’. Once I’d worked out her mechanics I thought she was a good boss fight and fun to play. The cannon parts were too long so hopefully that will be cut down.

personally only part of the boss fight i hated was the cannon part: last one lasts nearly 2 minutes… 2 minutes of you running around avoiding cannon fire that nearly take up the entire platform.

first time i fought her my team got wiped by said cannon fire (only one left and on guardian): spent the next 5 minutes kiting and reviving 1 person (who upon being revived went to revive others: essentially saved entire team). Over all the only part of the fight that did prove difficult was the cannon fire at 75% 50% and 25% hp.

even with the cannon fire: first champion in aetherblade retreat was so much harder… stupid lazer walls

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Both of the new boss type Fractals have been re-balanced and tuned to be more consistent with the other Fractals. The fight is indeed easier—at level 1. The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

I just hope you mean the really higher scales, because it was still significantly harder than any fractal fight at levels 10-20. Especially Mai Trin.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Both of the new boss type Fractals have been re-balanced and tuned to be more consistent with the other Fractals. The fight is indeed easier—at level 1. The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

Splendid! Just what I hoped. Wasn’t expecting a dev response, but thanks all the same.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Both of the new boss type Fractals have been re-balanced and tuned to be more consistent with the other Fractals. The fight is indeed easier—at level 1. The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

what are higher scales for you?
for me it was an always has bin 60-81the reason: 10-30 lower scales , 30-60 is about middle scales and 60- 81 is higher scales. If you just split the dungeonscales up that are availible. this would mean that the next update and future Content will indeed be pretty easy. or do I get you wrong here and already 20 is a higher scale for you it be nice to have a number wherearound you settle higher scales because some of us have a diffrent Definition of higher scales.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

Oh, we’re so dead.

By the way, please tell me there is still the voiceover for that phrase (it was told by Braham before battling with the Molten Berserker and Molten Firestorm).
It made me laugh everytime.

I hate Mai Trin fight, it is not a boss fight, it’s a cheating NPC mixed in with jumping puzzle and ludicruos mechanics I can not withstand. I did that dungeon once and never again bothered, that was my call and I was prevented from playing 1 dungeon because of it. Yeah it’s an irrational fobia, but it’s just as real, nothing in this game annoys me nearly as much, I will not say exactly how much because I’d get banned because of foul language, and quite rightly.

The point is: before I din’t get much enjoyment from one living story it was my call and the price I paid, now Mai Trin threatens to kick me out of fractals, a place I otherwise love.

the worst is molten fractal…

This was said to be a lag friendly game….then they introduced jumping XD

I never jumped relying on visual clues. I usually jump before and end up Landing in the middle of the aoe.

If i rely on what i see on screen i just get hit midjump.
And i have a gaming connection…

I’ll love to see feedback when we’ll see its an agony attack.

Manuhell.2759:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

Oh, we’re so dead.

…

Thank you for making me smile.

I hope this teaches people to dodge aoe circles

Brizna.5612:

I hate Mai Trin fight, it is not a boss fight, it’s a cheating NPC mixed in with jumping puzzle and ludicruos mechanics I can not withstand. I did that dungeon once and never again bothered, that was my call and I was prevented from playing 1 dungeon because of it. Yeah it’s an irrational fobia, but it’s just as real, nothing in this game annoys me nearly as much, I will not say exactly how much because I’d get banned because of foul language, and quite rightly.

The point is: before I din’t get much enjoyment from one living story it was my call and the price I paid, now Mai Trin threatens to kick me out of fractals, a place I otherwise love.

How is it a cheating npc and what jumping puzzle mechanics are mixed into it O_o?

Still, I really hope they cut down on the cannon barrage phase, lower the number of times she enters the cannon phase, or both. Mechanics of the fight as it was during the dungeon were repetitive, and the fight took far to much time overall.

Mai had an invisible leash, and if anybody went outside this leash she would do an invisible OHKO attack.

The thing is, she also aggroed onto a specific player and ran at that guy to attack him, So it was possible that Mai, running to player A put player B outside the leash. BOOM dead.

As a necromancer, I have no defense against OHKO except dodge (and no vigor either) and trying to dodge an attack coming from invisibility was outside my skill.

The player solution was Melee only pack n Stack guardian warrior spam. Obviously if you weren’t a warrior or Guardian, you hated Mai.

Then there was the cannon barrage between phases, which was brutal when you didn’t have defense against OHKO (only death shroud, and this was nerfed/doesnt exist anymore), no regeneration, no vigor, long cooldown access to short protection, and you were slow as hell. Seriously anet fix Necromancer in PvE dungeons.

nekretaal.6485:

Mai had an invisible leash, and if anybody went outside this leash she would do an invisible OHKO attack.

The thing is, she also aggroed onto a specific player and ran at that guy to attack him, So it was possible that Mai, running to player A put player B outside the leash. BOOM dead.

As a necromancer, I have no defense against OHKO except dodge (and no vigor either) and trying to dodge an attack coming from invisibility was outside my skill.

The player solution was Melee only pack n Stack guardian warrior spam. Obviously if you weren’t a warrior or Guardian, you hated Mai.

Then there was the cannon barrage between phases, which was brutal when you didn’t have defense against OHKO (only death shroud, and this was nerfed/doesnt exist anymore), no regeneration, no vigor, long cooldown access to short protection, and you were slow as hell. Seriously anet fix Necromancer in PvE dungeons.

Uh, to the best of my knowledge that isn’t true. She had an attack which increased in damage the further away from her you were, it was undodgeable (bad design since it had a really big tell), but not unblockable or unreflectable. She always did the attack to the furthest away person (so you can predict who will be shot), however, it wasn’t OHKO if you weren’t very far away (you could probably be at about 1600 range without getting extremely damaged), and even then there were some ways to stop it.

I’m not arguing she was well designed, I think mechanically she is decent, but the fight is so long and repetitive it gets extremely boring. But it isn’t like she was magically cheating somehow.

GoldenTruth.2853:

She had an attack which increased in damage the further away from her you were, it was undodgeable (bad design since it had a really big tell), but not unblockable or unreflectable.

Actually, if you dodged as she raised her pistol (not when she actually shoots), you would dodge the attack. Essentially, you avoid her aiming at you and she misses.

Bumbler.7581:

GoldenTruth.2853:

She had an attack which increased in damage the further away from her you were, it was undodgeable (bad design since it had a really big tell), but not unblockable or unreflectable.

Actually, if you dodged as she raised her pistol (not when she actually shoots), you would dodge the attack. Essentially, you avoid her aiming at you and she misses.

Ah…. I’m going to need to try this when the patch hits. Thanks for the tip.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Both of the new boss type Fractals have been re-balanced and tuned to be more consistent with the other Fractals. The fight is indeed easier—at level 1. The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

Jade maw is the same difficulty at level 1 as he is at 48. (Piling on ar to deal with an unavoidable application of agony does not represent difficulty to me). Are you going to introduce mechanics that scale maw’s difficulty as well?

rfdarko.4639:

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Both of the new boss type Fractals have been re-balanced and tuned to be more consistent with the other Fractals. The fight is indeed easier—at level 1. The original difficulty and more can be found a higher scales.

Jade maw is the same difficulty at level 1 as he is at 48. (Piling on ar to deal with an unavoidable application of agony does not represent difficulty to me). Are you going to introduce mechanics that scale maw’s difficulty as well?

Add aeither cannons to him wha wha wha wha wha

GoldenTruth.2853:

She had an attack which increased in damage the further away from her you were, it was undodgeable (bad design since it had a really big tell), but not unblockable or unreflectable.

Her ranged attacks were in fact unreflectable. I checked, ans she always could attack me right through the middle of Wall of Reflection with absolutely no problem. In fact, i can’t think of a single ranged attack in this fight that was reflectable (they were either reflection-piercing, or – like cannon shots – avoided this completely by being aoe’s and not missiles).
I guess we can be thankful at least that at the time they didn’t think about aegis-ignoring abilities yet.
And jade maw does scale, even if it’s not easily noticeable. At higher fractal levels you need to lob a bit more crystals at it before it dies.

Astralporing.1957:

GoldenTruth.2853:

She had an attack which increased in damage the further away from her you were, it was undodgeable (bad design since it had a really big tell), but not unblockable or unreflectable.

Her ranged attacks were in fact unreflectable. I checked, ans she always could attack me right through the middle of Wall of Reflection with absolutely no problem. In fact, i can’t think of a single ranged attack in this fight that was reflectable (they were either reflection-piercing, or – like cannon shots – avoided this completely by being aoe’s and not missiles).
I guess we can be thankful at least that at the time they didn’t think about aegis-ignoring abilities yet.

I specifically remember that attack being reflectable. The problem with reflecting it was that you would be teleported to her (since her attack was a teleportation bullet).

GoldenTruth.2853:

Astralporing.1957:

GoldenTruth.2853:

She had an attack which increased in damage the further away from her you were, it was undodgeable (bad design since it had a really big tell), but not unblockable or unreflectable.

Her ranged attacks were in fact unreflectable. I checked, ans she always could attack me right through the middle of Wall of Reflection with absolutely no problem. In fact, i can’t think of a single ranged attack in this fight that was reflectable (they were either reflection-piercing, or – like cannon shots – avoided this completely by being aoe’s and not missiles).
I guess we can be thankful at least that at the time they didn’t think about aegis-ignoring abilities yet.

I specifically remember that attack being reflectable. The problem with reflecting it was that you would be teleported to her (since her attack was a teleportation bullet).

And you are right about the attack being reflectable. To be more precise, though, it had to be a personal reflect, not a field reflect.

(In case anyone wonders, what I mean by a personal reflect is a skill is used to grant you, personally, a reflect. As an example, Magnetic Aura or Whirling Defense. A field reflect creates an area that enemy projectiles, upon passing the circle/line, get reflected. Examples being Feedback and Wall of Reflection.)

So Wall of Reflection didn’t work against Mai Trin? Why not? That seems so inconsistent.

She also had normal ranged shots (not the teleporting ones). WoR didn’t work on those as well.

As for Wall of Reflection not being able to work on Mai Trin’s Shadowstep shot, I think it’s because it’s how the reflections work and how the attack itself works.

Lets see… with field reflects its sorta like this: the attack leave point A to hit point B, but is intercepted at point C by a nonentity. Basically A<——→C—-x——B, but because of the shadowstep portion, the attack cannot affect a nonentity field (there’s a thought, a field shadowstepping to Mai Trin XD) so it goes through point C unhindered. A——→C——→B.

In the case of a personal reflection, the attack reaches point B, but due to an effect of some sort it reflects back to point A, and point B is indeed an entity which satisfies the Shadowstepping portion of the attack (the player in this case) A<—————>B. As for Mai Trin’s other attacks, I don’t think I ever reflected any of those, but I might not be remembering correctly.

(Please note, this is why I think personal reflects work while field reflects don’t on that attack. Only a developer will be able to tell you why this is the case.)

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So Wall of Reflection didn’t work against Mai Trin? Why not? That seems so inconsistent.

it was a side effect of pushing out content at such a fast pace, they don’t have time to test and thing about everything. Hopefully they will have fixed it now that they’ve had more time.

“Her ranged attacks were in fact unreflectable.”

I think she used the thief dagger/pistol dual skill to shadowstep to the furthest enemy and at one time that had some dodgy reflect issues, such a shadowstepping the target to the thief. Perhaps the devs decided to clean that up by making her shots unblockable.

I’m not sure if everyone has this same issue, but I often feel that the combat overall feels very inconsistent in the game (and that’s not only in the Living Story). I never know which red circles are instant death, and which do minor damage. Some attacks can be reflected, some cannot. Some attacks seem to hit you regardless if you dodge, and sometimes a chill attack freezes me into an ice cube, or it just applies the chilled condition. Some enemies have to be killed with a finishing move, and some enemies of the exact same type do not require a finishing move. And then there are some attacks where the timing for the dodge is completely off, like the ranged attacks of frost wurms.

Remember during the Queens Pavilion content how all Clockwork enemies required a finishing move? But now we have clockwork enemies in the Tower of Nightmares that don’t require a finishing move (but every other Toxic Alliance Sylvari does…. but not any of the Krait).

I think the word “inconsistant” is very appropriate here.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

So Wall of Reflection didn’t work against Mai Trin? Why not? That seems so inconsistent.

wall of reflection doesn’t work on a lot of attacks. Idea is they have pearcing and can penetrate shields of absorption and reflection. So no need to make it work on this attack.