[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
30+
Here’s where the analysis becomes more difficult. People who leveled beyond 30 did so with the full support of the Development team, and consequently have a good claim to that progress. I think it was bad, awful, and reprehensible communication by the Developers to not give us notice earlier. Particularly to people who were leveling alts through Fractals.
As much as it seems we disagree, I do fully agree with this.
I fall in the 30+ group, but no the 50+ group. I also saw it as a soft cap, but I can see how people chose to level past that, as we were promised an unlimited dungeon. I just chose not to take the risk, as I was expecting the next update to open up 50+, which is why I stopped right before.
Thanks, and I think that I need to do a better job of distinguishing between the two groups during future discussions. I don’t think anyone should be rewarded for leveling 50+, but I wouldn’t be as strongly opposed to a title or something for people who progressed to 30+.
But I still think a reward is largely unnecessary. Will someone who leveled 7 alts to 29 be excluded from such a reward? My issue with a reward, as I said above, is that it’s impossible to quantify the individual effort anyone has put into Fractals thus far. As I said above, elite progress may have come easily to a hardcore gamer, while similar progress may have taken tremendous effort by someone who is unable to play as often or with a dedicated group. And even if a reward is given for simply making it past a certain point, what about players who did not make is as far on any one character, but committed tremendous time and energy to leveling multiple characters—just not as far.
My problem with rewards for changed circumstances in MMOs is they rarely go to the group that most deserves them, and instead tend to fall to the group that is the most vocal on the forums.
As I have said before, they could make leaderboard based on highest scale beaten (after patch). So high scale people can try 50 and see if they can make it. If they do then new content is already a joke and the new leaderboard will be a joke. If not, then they have to go practice/get gear from previous scales.
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
I would say the leader board should track which/the number of unique fractals you have beaten (this way beating 50 20 times doesnt put you at the top). Possibly your deaths/team wipes, time or level completion. Then people could really compete, for best times, best runs, etc.
That would give people some real things to compete at
However even with all that i dont think that alone justifies wiping people. The only logical reason to not give people their old progress is if the new fractal mechanics actually make beating them a different achievement than it was before, IE its actually representing something different. (doesnt have to be harder, just different)
To ease the loss of the old fractals, they should give high end players some mementos or titles for bragging rights.
As part of the introduction of leaderboards, everyone whose current personal reward level for the Fractals of the Mists is above 30 will be reset to 30 so the competition can begin in earnest.
So the reset is because of leaderboards?
The leaderboards are a rly bad idea anyway…
First of all, there are way more players then fractal levels
Second: you cap it at fractal lvl 50 but want to increase the cap in the future?
So the first one who gets fractal lvl 50 waits for the cap increase while others can catch up in the leaderboard?
Deleting the progress players made in fractals for some poorly designed leaderboards is just wrong. Unless you keep the equity by giving those players a compensation basted on the fractal level they obtained.
[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
in Fractured
Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548
Advanced fractal runners should actually be 48+, because they actually had to dodge agony whereas y’all had plenty of AR to tank (lol). So really, it dumbs down all of the advanced fractal runners to be on equal footing with the casual fractal runners, which, yes, will be ahead of those players who barely set foot in fractals. So they’re clumping the top players in with the casual/semihardcore players. That’s not… Well.. It’s not quite right.
Not to mention that after the update, there will be no difference from players lvl 30, 40, 50, up to 80. Even though those at 80 put in incredibly more work than those at 30.
Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. Players who progressed to 80 did so at their own risk.
This is wrong. Why was it at their own risk? Was up 49 their own risk? Was leveling a character to 80 at my own risk? Is playing GW2 at my own risk? Where is the line drawn?
The line is drawn at…
drum roll
Fractal level 49.
So then why are people level 49 being reset?
Apparently because the Developers felt that was the only way to facilitate the leaderboard. I’m not a Developer—I cannot comment on what their thought process was.
But to those who leveled beyond 50. We all knew it wasn’t intended. We did so anyway, ergo, buyer beware.
nope when the dungeon came out it was an infinite Level dungeon we DID NOT KNOW. for me:
- first 5 ar on 24
- I got some more to about 10 on scale 42 (remark Prior update you could get non at all Levels)
- Finally infused ring on about 56
- Backpiece crafted out of relics on about 66 or somthing
so I had 20 AR when I did Level 80 .. should I notice an AR barrier? nope since I haven’t had max AR at enmy Points there was a Team playing with necro ele and guards that survived maw with teamplay and perfect Timing on healing gear till 70’s the only way they knew when they were 70 that there is a wall was that about that time we hit 80 and asced if 80 is the cap because of the entering that ported you from 81 back to 80. So how should we or they notice ? since we didn’t care about ar … wich was the reason we got up that fast.. we learned to dodge before the guys relied on AR.
here’s where we hit the cap and reason we didn’t Progress a bug occured in third fractal: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_igZIivu3E
We coulnd’t and didn’t no we weren’t supposed to Progress we found out the hardway when hitting 80 we asked on Forums about it. but no answer till no…
so stop the Claim we we’re supposed to know…at least I wasn’t!
first scale 81 fractals
I think skill should be rewarded over effort. Fractals was made and sold as “challenging content” where we could push ourselves and our skill/knowledge.
I think deleting any intended progress should be compensated.
I feel bad for the 50+ people because it was a lot of time and effort, but like I said, I thought it was apparent Anet didn’t intend to go past that. They should have put in a hard cap, but they chose not to.
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—
If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
(edited by Wethospu.6437)
[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
in Fractured
Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548
I think skill should be rewarded over effort. Fractals was made and sold as “challenging content” where we could push ourselves and our skill/knowledge.
I think deleting any intended progress should be compensated.
I feel bad for the 50+ people because it was a lot of time and effort, but like I said, I thought it was apparent Anet didn’t intend to go past that. They should have put in a hard cap, but they chose not to.
maybe read post above.. and there is a hardcap on 80. so we we’re supposed to go higher or at least allowed with they’re full knowledge … they saw that we made it to 80 I guess and they didn’t react to our Posts you can’t tell me they have metrics on everything and than then they don’t look at the Progress in they’re infinite Level dungeon…
first scale 81 fractals
I am trying to look at this from the developers perspective I think I understand why they set it at 30. You will get the majority of your fractals players at 30 and it is a level that is not quite so daunting for the new players. Even with the old fractals, it was a minority that went beyond 28, because that meant that you had to start really looking at your infusion slots (you wouldn’t be able to have those magicfind infusions, etc and would have to make infused rings / backpiece). So the majority of players that have done fractas probably were around the 10-28 level. They wanted to bring in new players and by putting the new content at 30 they had the most “bang for their buck” with the most people able to get to and enjoy the new content.
I believe that the down-leveling of the 30+ crowd is a compromise already made by the developers. Think about it, they were re-doing fractals in a different way, with a different form of AR advancement. They implemented a leaderboard. They would want everyone on equal footing and probably originally planned on starting everyone over at level 1. In a meeting, at least one of the dev’s pointed out that wiping out everyones levels in fractals would create a complete firestorm within the playerbase. They looked at the numbers and saw that if they let people at 30 and below keep their levels, most of the playerbase wouldn’t lose anything. They made a compromise to keep the majority of their playerbase from exploding all over the forums.
Its too late to make a major change, there are two development days until the patch. This LS update has been worked on for 4 months…its too late. As of Tuesday, odds are, we will be level 30 and lost literally months of work (some of us can only do 1 fractal run a week, because not everyone has 3 hours to do a single thing in an evening). They may be able to put something quick in as far as compensation (query everyone that leveled above 30 and give them some extra +1 AR infusions or some champ boxes)…but odds are the major changes are already coded, already done. Even if they now realize their mistake, it is too late to do anything but a quick fix.
Maybe we need to look at it more from this perspective. Again, without verification from the dev team this is all subjecture, but this is what I think anyways.
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.
Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
I think skill should be rewarded over effort. Fractals was made and sold as “challenging content” where we could push ourselves and our skill/knowledge.
I think deleting any intended progress should be compensated.
I feel bad for the 50+ people because it was a lot of time and effort, but like I said, I thought it was apparent Anet didn’t intend to go past that. They should have put in a hard cap, but they chose not to.
maybe read post above.. and there is a hardcap on 80. so we we’re supposed to go higher or at least allowed with they’re full knowledge … they saw that we made it to 80 I guess and they didn’t react to our Posts you can’t tell me they have metrics on everything and than then they don’t look at the Progress in they’re infinite Level dungeon…
I am not trying to be mean, but I’m not sure the point you are trying to make. I was replying to somebody, but didn’t quote because it was a wall of text.
To clarify, I don’t think the people that got to 80 did anything wrong. I was just explaining why I choose to stop under 50.
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
The overall point is that if our hardcore players can beat fotm level 50 day one, then it’s a horrible design.
If they struggle and have to work up to it, then they will have to do that anyway.
Resetting levels arbitrarily is not the answer.
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
The whole reason nobody is being taken seriously is because of people that went past level 50 cap. That’s why we have people arguing, that’s why everything is overlooked while insults and jabs are being directed towards these players.
With new rune of resistance fotm high levels will be easy so don’t complain about releveling when they are making it easy for you to do it.
The whole reason nobody is being taken seriously is because of people that went past level 50 cap. That’s why we have people arguing, that’s why everything is overlooked while insults and jabs are being directed towards these players.
Is it? I am upper 40s, but people still seem to have an issue with me being upset my progression is removed.
Most people on the side of the change seem to be under level 31, with the exception of a few upper 30s or low 40s
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
With new rune of resistance fotm high levels will be easy so don’t complain about releveling when they are making it easy for you to do it.
With new rune of resitance fotm high levels will be easy so don’t complain about leveling up to 50 when they are making it easy for you to do it, to enjoy the new content starting at 50.
See…. doesn’t really sit well.
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
Why would they bother with offering compensation when they could just as easily add the new 20 levels onto the end and then nerf all the previous levels, making it the exact same as the new 1-50, but with extra grind.
I am trying to look at this from the developers perspective I think I understand why they set it at 30. You will get the majority of your fractals players at 30 and it is a level that is not quite so daunting for the new players. Even with the old fractals, it was a minority that went beyond 28, because that meant that you had to start really looking at your infusion slots (you wouldn’t be able to have those magicfind infusions, etc and would have to make infused rings / backpiece). So the majority of players that have done fractas probably were around the 10-28 level. They wanted to bring in new players and by putting the new content at 30 they had the most “bang for their buck” with the most people able to get to and enjoy the new content.
I believe that the down-leveling of the 30+ crowd is a compromise already made by the developers. Think about it, they were re-doing fractals in a different way, with a different form of AR advancement. They implemented a leaderboard. They would want everyone on equal footing and probably originally planned on starting everyone over at level 1. In a meeting, at least one of the dev’s pointed out that wiping out everyones levels in fractals would create a complete firestorm within the playerbase. They looked at the numbers and saw that if they let people at 30 and below keep their levels, most of the playerbase wouldn’t lose anything. They made a compromise to keep the majority of their playerbase from exploding all over the forums.
Its too late to make a major change, there are two development days until the patch. This LS update has been worked on for 4 months…its too late. As of Tuesday, odds are, we will be level 30 and lost literally months of work (some of us can only do 1 fractal run a week, because not everyone has 3 hours to do a single thing in an evening). They may be able to put something quick in as far as compensation (query everyone that leveled above 30 and give them some extra +1 AR infusions or some champ boxes)…but odds are the major changes are already coded, already done. Even if they now realize their mistake, it is too late to do anything but a quick fix.
Maybe we need to look at it more from this perspective. Again, without verification from the dev team this is all subjecture, but this is what I think anyways.
they can however decide what data to save and use later for whatever they decide to do about it, and they can let people know that it will be back later.
Much like SAB progress isnt lost, or when they sent out the karka event items to those who missed it.
or they can say next month we will have sme old titles, or backpacks or whatever
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
The overall point is that if our hardcore players can beat fotm level 50 day one, then it’s a horrible design.
If they struggle and have to work up to it, then they will have to do that anyway.
Resetting levels arbitrarily is not the answer.
people wont go back, there is no advantage to going back, or gearing that occurs there, they will just figure out how to beat level 50. And it really isnt bad design to have different challenges even if you have to number them. A fighting game may have like 10 hard combos, if you go to training mode they have to put them in some order, its actually better IMO if they have 10 different challenges that are all fairly difficult, rather than just getting harder. More entertaining to beat.
actually i would say it shouldnt be on highest scale beaten, they said each level has a unique mechanic. Could be that the mechanic at 44 is harder to deal with than the one at 50 for a lot of people. Also overcoming 1 type of challenge doesnt mean you can overcome different challenges.
—If 48 is drastically different than 49 then put my maximum access to first unique scale (probably 40 or 45). But I guess in that case changing reset level to that 40 or 45 would fit better.
However system like that sounds quite bad because higher scales can be easier than previous ones. But we will see the actual implementation soon.
if its some unique mechanic for each level, its pretty hard for them to say which one is harder. In GW1 different people had different problems dealing with the hard mode limits in Domain of Anguish.
For example a constant DOT is going to effect lower hp players more than higher hp players, or native hot players.
Less endurance would effect thieves more than say guardians.Its pretty unlikely that the new difficulties are going to exactly be strictly speaking harder than each other, if they each have a unique mechanic.
The overall point is that if our hardcore players can beat fotm level 50 day one, then it’s a horrible design.
If they struggle and have to work up to it, then they will have to do that anyway.
Resetting levels arbitrarily is not the answer.
people wont go back, there is no advantage to going back, or gearing that occurs there, they will just figure out how to beat level 50. And it really isnt bad design to have different challenges even if you have to number them. A fighting game may have like 10 hard combos, if you go to training mode they have to put them in some order, its actually better IMO if they have 10 different challenges that are all fairly difficult, rather than just getting harder. More entertaining to beat.
Well, that’s true if it’s always one instability (gambit) on each level, that’s the same. What if it’s a random instability (gambit) ontop of increasing difficulty (like health, attack, armor, etc).
Also, it’s advertised as increasing in difficulty. In the old system, if you couldn’t beat 10, chances are you couldn’t beat 20 (unless you get carried). So why start at 30 instead of at least 40?
“leaderboards”
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
Hello all,
The Developers are reading these posts and we are gathering feedback. This is a reminder, as I’ve already had to edit one post. Please do not discuss exploits, discuss how players may have used exploits, and keep these topics clean. We do not want to have to shut down more threads because they dissolve into name-calling, rude comments, and other violations of the Forum Code of Conduct.
Maybe if at any time in the past year the devs had addressed specifically if going above level 50 was an exploit, as was asked on multiple occasions, there wouldn’t be any ambiguity.
guildless hobo who likes to solo – [x]
In the vein of my previous post I am going to mainly speak in terms of people losing 30-50 here.
My own personal problem with all of this is that I put in months of work (it is a minimum of about 40 hours to do 20 levels…but the average is probably many more hours than that when we hit bugs on the third fractal or Maw where it couldn’t be completed…PUG’s, etc.). After all of these hours of work over months of time I am being placed at the exact same level as those people that chose not to put in the work or time or effort.
People writing that we are showing Elitism or QQ’ing need to learn to have a little bit of compassion towards their fellow human. Boards are anonymous, we know…but there are human beings behind the keyboard. You cannot say that we did not lose anything…even if you believe that 50+ somehow shouldn’t have been done. Those people who are losing 20 levels are losing something that they put a minimum of 40 hours into. Compensation cannot bring that time back…and the ANET team suddenly calling these people equal to someone at level 30 is an insult.
You can get to 29 with just a set of infused rings (or non-infused rings with two versatile infusions costing 75 fractal relics each = easy requirements)….there is no commitment made. That is why the majority of players stopped there. After 29, you need to infuse your rings (or find them), or make an ascended backpiece and infuse it. After 39, you need to have infused rings, and an infused backpiece…and even then, you have to dodge Agony, and time a guard healing tomb (or several other methods) on the final Maw fractal to survive. These are all facts as to why there were less and less players at those levels above 29.
A player who was doing level 48 fractals made a commitment to do level 48 fractals. They did this in time (minimum 40 hours extra work over a 28 person) they did this in equipment (infusing rings and back piece, which cost materials and etc). You cannot suddenly claim that these people should now be equal to the guy who didn’t put in the time or commitment. Have some compassion guys(and gals)….geez, you should be able to see that this is a loss to these people…they are being told that they are not any better than the people who didn’t put in the work. And they are being told that they need to put in the work again. And I am not even talking about the 50+ crowd.
Think of it this way…at 1.5 hours a fractal set, someone at level 30 put in about 50 hours to get there…whether they did it all at once or over months does not matter…they put in the time. Someone at 50 put in almost double that time (I would argue that higher levels take longer since you cannot just rush through them, you need more strategy). This new patch calls these two groups equal. I would actually be happier if everyone lost something (like everyone lose 20 levels)…misery loves company…at least we would all be in it together.
The new challenge fractals are being put in at level 31-50. This is much better game design than putting new levels in at 50+. The mobs scaling and AR requirement at 50+ would be too much and new players starting at L1 would be faced with far too many levels to grind. 50 levels total is already more than enough for casual players, who rarely repeat a dungeon 50 times. The designers should get the future design right even if they have to remodel part of the old design, so remodeling 31-50 is right.
So should players have their fractals level set back to 30 or left higher? Well the old players haven’t beaten the new content. We can assume that they would do but it hasn’t been achieved and we don’t know whether new builds and tactics are needed. So I say the level reset is fair and it actually gives players something to do. A scaled down player can still join higher groups (if someone else opens) and any loss of loot from a lower reward level is likely to be minimal.
If players want a title for reaching old level 49/50, fine.
Playing to fractal L80 was allowed by the devs as fun for players to test themselves. It was not an intended part of the game intent and became a challenge for those who wanted it. We knew at the time there was no reward other than succeeding the challenge and esteem amongst peers. Now that challenge has gone it seems as if people want a reward for it after all.
Maybe a better compromise would have been to work the averages. Make everyone lose something, but still keep a difference between players:
If the majority of players are at the 28 level mark:
Those 10 and below, drop to 0 and start over.
Those 10-19 drop to 10.
those 10-29 drop to 20
those 30-39 drop to 30
those 40-80 drop to 40 (50+ still take the biggest hit but at least they are still shown to have something for their time and effort, or maybe put the 50+ crowd at 45 to start to differentiate those from the – 49 crowd)
This would still put the majority of players at or slightly below 30. It would still keep the other players at about their levels from the level cap with minimal work required to get back to the new level cap (but still requiring some work on their behalf).
(edited by Moshari.8570)
The whole reason nobody is being taken seriously is because of people that went past level 50 cap. That’s why we have people arguing, that’s why everything is overlooked while insults and jabs are being directed towards these players.
Is it? I am upper 40s, but people still seem to have an issue with me being upset my progression is removed.
Most people on the side of the change seem to be under level 31, with the exception of a few upper 30s or low 40s
Precisely my point. People that are in lower 40s or lower 30s are all up for it. Some people in higher 40s also gave up. But then what am I supposed to say with having 3 toons in 49? People with one toon are all for the change because they won’t have to lift a finger to level any other character to get them where they want them in fractals. People that are in highers 40s and have no alts are also against the idea. There’s a trend here. People that are gaining something are trying to shut people that are loosing quite a lot up.
My point in above statement was that they all base their insults and attacks putting people that are in 80s on the spot as an example and how it was not intended to get that high, even though devs never said that it was not intended to begin with. And how some of them used old exploits that been fixed months ago. While all of us that worked very hard while not using any exploits to where we are now are being left in the dust and completely forgotten for the good of 2 weeks that fractal will be populated for after the release of this patch.
Anet has to realize that they’re trading off very dedicated group of peoples’s trust for two weeks of fun for major population. Some of them will get interested, but vast majority of them will get out of fractals as fast as they came in.
Maybe a better compromise would have been to work the averages. Make everyone lose something, but still keep a difference between players:
If the majority of players are at the 28 level mark:
Those 10 and below, drop to 0 and start over.
Those 10-19 drop to 10.
those 10-29 drop to 20
those 30-39 drop to 30
those 40-80 drop to 40 (50+ still take the biggest hit but at least they are still shown to have something for their time and effort, or maybe put the 50+ crowd at 45 to start to differentiate those from the – 49 crowd)
This would still put the majority of players at or slightly below 30. It would still keep the other players at about their levels from the level cap with minimal work required to get back to the new level cap (but still requiring some work on their behalf).
yes please, a better compromise e.e’ I mean, come on… It takes a lot of time and effort to get 50+ on 1 toon. But there are people that leveled multi toons as well. I am so tired of ANET ignoring the minority. I am not a hard core player but I did get to 50+ steadily runs by runs.
Also with the leader board, I feel like I have to grind to 50 as soon as possible. because I do not want to be behind the 2 other guys that I fotm with. Or be behind the guys that need my help to get to 48, because these guys are much more hard core than me and they will want to level as soon as possible. I want to play this game and have fun, but I don’t think it is fun if I feel pressured to climb up the leader board.
The debate on equity bores me. What I’m worried about (and for a kitten good reason) is the fact that the devs are resetting me to a level that’s currently trivial for me and my friends, and a level that will be made easier post patch. The real enemy here isn’t the lack of rewards or a lack of equity, the enemy is boredom and tediousness.
[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
in Fractured
Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548
Why would they bother with offering compensation when they could just as easily add the new 20 levels onto the end and then nerf all the previous levels, making it the exact same as the new 1-50, but with extra grind.
because they won’t add it to fractals scale 80… wich would be fair and correct but they don’t because 99% of all Players would never see the content than… I would and I’d deserve it and I think it should have been the way they make if they get harder Levels add it to the end but I think those Levels are easier than the end ie fractals scale 80 so they don’t add it there
first scale 81 fractals
[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
in Fractured
Posted by: Patrikan Habaton.2548
Maybe a better compromise would have been to work the averages. Make everyone lose something, but still keep a difference between players:
If the majority of players are at the 28 level mark:
Those 10 and below, drop to 0 and start over.
Those 10-19 drop to 10.
those 10-29 drop to 20
those 30-39 drop to 30
those 40-80 drop to 40 (50+ still take the biggest hit but at least they are still shown to have something for their time and effort, or maybe put the 50+ crowd at 45 to start to differentiate those from the – 49 crowd)
This would still put the majority of players at or slightly below 30. It would still keep the other players at about their levels from the level cap with minimal work required to get back to the new level cap (but still requiring some work on their behalf).
nooo why should I drop 41 Levels I would drop more than half of my Levels stop beeing ignorant to ppl that are high if you want a solution make it so either all Drops eaqualy wich means I drop to 80 or nobody Drops at all don’t make this Solutions ehhh let’s just make a smaller playerbase suffer… this is just not fair
first scale 81 fractals
Maybe a better compromise would have been to work the averages. Make everyone lose something, but still keep a difference between players:
If the majority of players are at the 28 level mark:
Those 10 and below, drop to 0 and start over.
Those 10-19 drop to 10.
those 10-29 drop to 20
those 30-39 drop to 30
those 40-80 drop to 40 (50+ still take the biggest hit but at least they are still shown to have something for their time and effort, or maybe put the 50+ crowd at 45 to start to differentiate those from the – 49 crowd)
This would still put the majority of players at or slightly below 30. It would still keep the other players at about their levels from the level cap with minimal work required to get back to the new level cap (but still requiring some work on their behalf).
this makes it sound like your real beef is that you have to be at the same level as plebians. you dont mind a level loss as long as you are above others. Ok
In the vein of my previous post I am going to mainly speak in terms of people losing 30-50 here.
My own personal problem with all of this is that I put in months of work (it is a minimum of about 40 hours to do 20 levels…but the average is probably many more hours than that when we hit bugs on the third fractal or Maw where it couldn’t be completed…PUG’s, etc.). After all of these hours of work over months of time I am being placed at the exact same level as those people that chose not to put in the work or time or effort.
People writing that we are showing Elitism or QQ’ing need to learn to have a little bit of compassion towards their fellow human. Boards are anonymous, we know…but there are human beings behind the keyboard. You cannot say that we did not lose anything…even if you believe that 50+ somehow shouldn’t have been done. Those people who are losing 20 levels are losing something that they put a minimum of 40 hours into. Compensation cannot bring that time back…and the ANET team suddenly calling these people equal to someone at level 30 is an insult.
You can get to 29 with just a set of infused rings (or non-infused rings with two versatile infusions costing 75 fractal relics each = easy requirements)….there is no commitment made. That is why the majority of players stopped there. After 29, you need to infuse your rings (or find them), or make an ascended backpiece and infuse it. After 39, you need to have infused rings, and an infused backpiece…and even then, you have to dodge Agony, and time a guard healing tomb (or several other methods) on the final Maw fractal to survive. These are all facts as to why there were less and less players at those levels above 29.
A player who was doing level 48 fractals made a commitment to do level 48 fractals. They did this in time (minimum 40 hours extra work over a 28 person) they did this in equipment (infusing rings and back piece, which cost materials and etc). You cannot suddenly claim that these people should now be equal to the guy who didn’t put in the time or commitment. Have some compassion guys(and gals)….geez, you should be able to see that this is a loss to these people…they are being told that they are not any better than the people who didn’t put in the work. And they are being told that they need to put in the work again. And I am not even talking about the 50+ crowd.
Think of it this way…at 1.5 hours a fractal set, someone at level 30 put in about 50 hours to get there…whether they did it all at once or over months does not matter…they put in the time. Someone at 50 put in almost double that time (I would argue that higher levels take longer since you cannot just rush through them, you need more strategy). This new patch calls these two groups equal. I would actually be happier if everyone lost something (like everyone lose 20 levels)…misery loves company…at least we would all be in it together.
the whole talk of infusion is irrelevant, you still have every advantage you gained with infusion, and if agony is the main deterrent, you will race to the top while newbs have to go back and get agony resist
Don’t kid yourselves. This whole thing is done to please the casuals who found fractals “hard” and “not worth it”. The content will be far from challenging.
But cheer up. The leaderboards will be dominated by a select few and this is so awesome. Pugs won’t stand a chance and I hope the gearchecking will also include rank checking. Maybe ISP speedtests too.
Why can’t people opt out from participating in the ranking stuff and keep their progress? Some of us were looking forward to get to fractal 80 ourselves.
Don’t kid yourselves. This whole thing is done to please the casuals who found fractals “hard” and “not worth it”. The content will be far from challenging.
But cheer up. The leaderboards will be dominated by a select few and this is so awesome. Pugs won’t stand a chance and I hope the gearchecking will also include rank checking. Maybe ISP speedtests too.
Why can’t people opt out from participating in the ranking stuff and keep their progress? Some of us were looking forward to get to fractal 80 ourselves.
The majority of those “elite” few couldn’t care less about the leaderboards.
I haven’t seen a single post in favor of leaderboards, is anybody actually looking forward to it? (Honest question, I really do want to know)
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
I heard the devs are pretty excited about them so there’s that.
Edit: The only way these would work since infinite progression is out of discussion anyway is if the leaderboards would reset every week or something. Since fractals are different lengths and difficulties it would make sense to have them separated. But seeing how devs don’t really know the game they’ll probably be like “meh swamp and ascalon are the same”.
(edited by robertul.3679)
[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
in Fractured
Posted by: Estriella Faerie.4029
There’s only one true thing they could record on their leaderboard which would have a meaning : highest level attained.
Other things would be quite pointless… Best time ? Completely depends on which maps you’ll get on rotation, and best time would force people on specific professions.
But for highest level attained to have a meaning, you must not make any cap on level, or you’ll have a ton of people tied at first place. So, putting a leaderboard, and a hard cap at the same time… I just can’t understand them…
Everyone arguing back and forth about the 50+ (those both for and against). I am not seeing anything lately from you guys except “don’t do it.” or “screw you guys, levels are irrelevent” This update is coming out on next Tuesday. Even if the developers wanted to change something drastic, there is not enough time. I agree with the 50+ guys, I agree that this sucks, I agree that you shouldn’t lose your levels, I agree that this is not fair, it is happening whether we like it or not.
Complaining about how much it sucks brings nothing to the table. Constructive feedback will be received far more than “this sucks, don’t do it.” or shooting down every other post that doesn’t say “leave everything as it is”. Give some constructive feedback. You ARE losing the levels….I AM LOSING my levels (I am also above 50). The new level cap WILL be 50. Is there some compromise that you would consider? Some of my suggestions would be hard to implement in the time given…but I am trying to come up with something that fits into the new constraints that might be possible in the two development days remaining.
As another option Fractals are already instanced….what about Fractals 2.0? What I mean is, keep the current fractals, add the new fractals. When you go to the portal in Lion’s arch, it first asks you “Original Fractals or Fractals 2.0” and you click on which one you want. Fractals 2.0 has the leaderboard, the new rewards, the new way of advancing….everything announced in the LS. Original Fractals is exactly as it is now. Anyone playing Fractals 2.0 starts over at level 1 on Fractals 2.0 but retains their level within the Original Fractals. You can choose which one to enter at least until they can get things merged.
For the guys arguing against me and several of the others losing levels….what compromises do you see that would satisfy you other than “quit QQ’ing and deal with it”
(edited by Moshari.8570)
There’s only one true thing they could record on their leaderboard which would have a meaning : highest level attained.
Other things would be quite pointless… Best time ? Completely depends on which maps you’ll get on rotation, and best time would force people on specific professions.But for highest level attained to have a meaning, you must not make any cap on level, or you’ll have a ton of people tied at first place. So, putting a leaderboard, and a hard cap at the same time… I just can’t understand them…
I guess it’s hard for me to wrap my head around leaderboard for PvE content.
PvE is about bringing the community together. Deleting progress in order for us to compete against each other will do the opposite.
If anybody ACTUALLY cares about being at the top, they will refuse to help people because they want to stay up there. The only thing I see that will come from leaderboards is gloating and elitism. Maybe very low toons begging the top ranked people to help them.
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
Everyone arguing on behalf of the 50+. I am not seeing anything lately from you guys except “don’t do it.” That is not going to happen. This update is coming out on next Tuesday. Even if the developers wanted to change something drastic, there is not enough time. I agree with you guys, I agree that this sucks, I agree that you shouldn’t lose your levels, I agree that this is not fair, it is happening.
They have most likely given up, became so infracted that they can’t post, or switched games. Offering solutions won’t do anything, because like you said, it’s happening whether we like it or not. (Hint: we don’t)
I could offer a million solutions, but the fact that a single dev hasn’t responded, makes me think they don’t care. They are letting us vent and argue with eachother, while they work on the next LS content.
I could be wrong, but until I see otherwise that is what I have to assume.
You get nothing! You lose, good day sir!
Everyone arguing on behalf of the 50+. I am not seeing anything lately from you guys except “don’t do it.” That is not going to happen. This update is coming out on next Tuesday. Even if the developers wanted to change something drastic, there is not enough time. I agree with you guys, I agree that this sucks, I agree that you shouldn’t lose your levels, I agree that this is not fair, it is happening.
They have most likely given up, became so infracted that they can’t post, or switched games. Offering solutions won’t do anything, because like you said, it’s happening whether we like it or not. (Hint: we don’t)
I could offer a million solutions, but the fact that a single dev hasn’t responded, makes me think they don’t care. They are letting us vent and argue with eachother, while they work on the next LS content.
I could be wrong, but until I see otherwise that is what I have to assume.
Seems pretty accurate to me. Until I see a Dev post, and not a CC, a Dev, I’m going to continue to think they’re just letting us vent because theyre not going to listen to us anyway. The only places they seem to read the posts seriously are the CDI posts.
[ARES]
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
And all who stood by and did nothing, who are they to criticize the sacrifices of others?
Our blood has bought their lives.
Leaderboard for Fractals seems silly. I also have no idea what they could be keeping track of for a leaderboard. Highest level attained? (everyone will be at 50), fastest time? (depends on your fractal set), amount of deaths per level attained? (eventually will be 0 for all levels), over-all deaths vs kills? (gives advantage to AOE attacks and luck in getting dredge or ascalon),
I truly find leaderboards on fractals to be an answer to a request that was never asked nor fathomed. They would be better off providing leaderboards for tequatl runs.
no point of getting upset or angry at all, ANET will do what they want, even if we the loyal customers charging gems once in a while even though we do not have to… stay or not. ANET do not care because we are the minority of this game that did get to fotm 50+.
knowing that they will never do this to the majority guys, wvw/ spvp/ other types of pve guys, I am still playing because I made some valuable friends. but by all mean, I will not promote ANET’s game anymore so I won’t have friends in this game, then I can stop playing to their mistrust and dishonestly.
I don’t know why the forums are flooding with tears. I think it’s fantastic that they’re putting new things and challenges in fractals. I mean what would happen if this update didn’t go through? You would all be doing fractals level 48 / max level eternally. Now you can progress through more (we’ll see) challenging and different content.
As for people leveling alts on fractals I’ll guess that if you have 8 characters on level 50, you have already gotten everything fractals already can provide. I mean what else is there when you get everything on 8 characters? Shouldn’t you be happy for this update?
These forums and the people whining about everything is a bit discouraging really.
Lfg will be one of these:
1) lf2m frac50 ping gear(all slay sigils too) or kick!!min 10k achiv 1leggy no necro!
2)Read>>selling fractal 50 get your relics 1g 50s daily reward!! easy ranking since nov ’13!
I’ll admit. If I look at the content objectively, I like that they are adding new fractals and am excited to try the new ones. I like that they are increasing the rewards. I like that they are making it more accessible to more people so I don’t have to wait 30 minutes for a PUG. I like that every level will have a boss fight and bonus chest (never did odd’s anyways).
I wont be quitting the game over my level loss, and I will be playing the new fractals. Will I get to the level that I once was? Even if I could, I don’t have the time to do it again. If I did somehow achieve it again, it would be many months (years maybe) down the road. I have a baby on the way (late feb). THAT will be my life, not some game.
That is part of why I am so upset, and that is part of why I argued for a lesser reduction in levels based off of previous levels…it had nothing to do with the “plebians” as someone put it and more to do with simply not taking ALL of my levels away and sharing the pain. If their current cap is 50 and they want no one at 50, at least get me close to 50 so I don’t have to spend months leveling again and if you are taking my levels away, you should do it to everyone.
[Merged] Fractal level reset is equity wiped. Discuss.
in Fractured
Posted by: Estriella Faerie.4029
We are not against a fractal patch. Hey, we were the ones most enthousiastic about it before tuesday, we’ve been waiting for a fractal patch since january !
But we can’t be happy when we see some of the features of this patch :
- Level reset. This is like telling us we just wasted all our time, for absolutely nothing. It’s a spit in the face, to the people most dedicated to fractals.
- Leaderboard with no meaning
- Fractal weapons at 10: those weapons were the way to show our dedication to fractals. Giving them to an even lower level than before makes it impossible for us to show our dedication to this area of the game. Most other aspects have ways to show their dedication (ennemies see your rank in WvW, finishers for sPvP, for example). Fractal players only had weapons (and the level they could open)
- New fractal weapons will be skins and no more weapons. This is a good thing, no more transmutation crystals wasted. But they said it won’t be retroactive. So what do i do with all the weapons i have stored in bank ? Just cry and buy 1600 gems to use them on my alts ?
- Exclusive reward for HL, a tonic ! We’re so happy ! If they had put the tonic reward at level 10 and the weapons at 40, I think it would have been better.
(edited by Estriella Faerie.4029)
I don’t see the whole drama with this reseting thing. Yes people won’t be able to just do lvl 48 immediately and yes they will have to pug their way up again, but are you guys forgetting how fast it is to level up? especially with 3 new fractals and 1? more boss fractal. Those last 20 levels will be achieved within a week or so (for the hardcore players).
I’m pro this reset and I don’t mind losing my higher ranks. It will be fun again leveling up
How would you feel if they reset everyone to lv 30 in the game? Removed any items you had over lv 30… with no compensation? I bet if that was the case you would completely understand why people are upset.
This… its ok not a big deal… let them do what ever attitude is what gets the community in trouble.
I have posted plenty of opinions on my original “Compensation”-thread in this subforum but decided to repost something here so that more people can read it and give their opinions. People have been so busy looking at the lost progress that they are forgetting something else.
If you look closely this wonderful new addition, the account wide fractal level is nothing but a beautifully packaged version of something that already existed. Unfortunately people are too blind to see it and accept it as a great gift full of opportunity.
The fact is that up until now, you could do any level fractals, on any one of your characters if they were geared enough to handle the agony. Very often, I have had friends do a lvl 48 on a character with zero AR and lvl 1 personal reward, just because we needed that particular class or for fun. In any of the current fractals the boss agony is easily dodgeable, if you pay attention so you don’t even need AR. All you had to do is relog to your main once the Maw is reached and get the high level chest. The cost of this? A relog at the start of the Maw fractal.
So, the only “improvement” that this great gift offers is not having to relog. This is just a typical method of: “we will give you something that seems fancy in hopes that you will overlook other flaws and stuff we are taking away from you”.
Leaderboard for Fractals seems silly. I also have no idea what they could be keeping track of for a leaderboard. Highest level attained? (everyone will be at 50), fastest time? (depends on your fractal set), amount of deaths per level attained? (eventually will be 0 for all levels), over-all deaths vs kills? (gives advantage to AOE attacks and luck in getting dredge or ascalon),
I truly find leaderboards on fractals to be an answer to a request that was never asked nor fathomed. They would be better off providing leaderboards for tequatl runs.
I agree with this actually. The leaderboard would be filled up and become stagnant pretty fast since the maximum is level 50 and especially with infusions being obtainable more easily. Most of us who do level 48 spend a lot of time leveling up to it so all the effort there is gone. The leaderboard would have nothing to boast about until it goes above 51 (which requires more than the current max 55 AR) as there is no level above that in game at the moment. I would suggest for future updates to consider that if the newer content becomes “easier” than previous content (AR being easier to obtain), there should not be a need to reset everyone to a level below which one can boast about.
I’m one very unhappy customer for this decision.
Champion Magus & Phantom, Demon’s Demise, The Archdesigner.
Death is Energy [DIE] – Gandara EU
Australia
Death is Energy [DIE] – Gandara EU
Australia
Can we have a developer respond?
Right now its the community arguing against the community, which really doesn’t matter.
We would like to know how the developers feel about deleting our progression rightfully earner, in order for leaderboards to come out, for which nobody wants or asked.
You got a response.
Until they have gathered feedback this is what you will get. Simple as that.Majority
With all that stated, I really wish you guys would have done what you did with skill balancing update that will happen in December. Post it on community forum a month in advance and gather feedback before thus drastic changes take place.
.
Anet does not need to inform us of everything they are planning for the future. Plus I’m pretty sure they thought this thru when making changes to the fracts. In any case, had they informed us of the changes, there is a chance that we could have swayed their planning and put a halt to their ideas.
More often than not, the community as a whole does not know what they want, and it would be tragic if we persuaded them to not give us content that could truly be spectacular because we the community thought that it just wasn’t good enough.
“I got a fever! And the only prescription, is more COWBELL!”