Guild Wars 2

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

fadeaway.2807:

The answer is that you get a bunch more hp than the guardian and a bunch more utility that the warrior.

There’s a reason warriors don’t have loads of blinds, aegis, traited vigor, extra heals, teleports etc.

Besides, the armor difference is actually tiny.

It all seems pretty balanced to me, I play warrior, guardian, mesmer and thief

It all seems pretty *UN*balanced to me. Look at who the most desired classes are for dungeons: Guardian, Warrior and Mesmer. Why is this? Guardian and Warrior both are high armor classes, yet they seem to have a much higher damage output than my necromancer, who is of course a light armor class. Shouldn’t it balance out? Shouldn’t the lowest armored classes have a higher damage output to make up for that disadvantage?

The answer to this, is Cleave and DPS. The PVE game favors these things, and is entirely against conditions and control skills. So any classes that rely on these mechanics, and do not have access to good DPS + Cleave, are left out in the cold. It is the direct result of high end PVE not handling the various combat mechanics equally. Bosses/champions are immune to things that some classes rely on, while having no resistance or immunities to the things these other three classes rely on.

That is what I call an unbalanced combat system.

What was the point of playing Necromancer to begin with? No one told you to do that. And it’s not like it gets any better.

Mad Queen Malafide.7512:

Wethospu.6437:

What was the point of playing Necromancer to begin with? No one told you to do that. And it’s not like it gets any better.

And the mature discussion goes right out the window…. ugh…

Very immature response from a mature person, i think you lack the integrity to judge wether this discussion is mature or not.

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Very immature response from a mature person, i think you lack the integrity to judge wether this discussion is mature or not.

No, I agree with Mad Queen Malafide. Anytime someone brings up the “If you don’t like it, don’t play it” argument, then they basically have no argument. People don’t want to simply stop playing a class they like because it’s underpowered or undesirable in parties, etc, they want the game to be balanced so that NOT every optimal setup is the same zerk guard/warr/mes fiasco we’ve seen since the launch of the game.

Basically, by saying you don’t care that a class is underpowered, then you’re actually saying you don’t give two kittens about class balance… and considering this thread is about class balance, well… you put it together :P

You dont really need full heavy team… but u do need a good balance for dungeons that needs little more skills then spamming dps on a boss while huging a wall ^^ ( just like any other mmo…)
i can give at least 1 good reason to take any of the proffesions to high fractals .
In fact i would say something like guardian+warrior+mesmer+ heavy aoe + random dps (if no swaping involved in the middle of the run) , which if u noticed leaves spots for any proffesion in the game , GG.
P.S thats the beauty of fractals 3 random zones with allmost no hug wall tactics : )

My guild decided to run balanced team composition so we would not be accuse of classism.

I recommend you to try that.

I main necro and guardian, a light and heavy armour class, a condition and direction damage class. And l do play conditions in PvE (mostly) because I enjoy the play style, call me casual w/e…
But I can tell you now, when looking at numbers my guardian is superior in every way imaginable, better dps (DD > condi, heck even the necro’s DD on axe/dag is inferior), better survivability, better team support.
I rolled a guardian a several months a go because I was tired of swaths of necro nerfs happening in PvE because this game is balanced based on PvP. And, from experience I can say this topic title is correct. Play a warrior or guardian if you want an easy time, playing any other class will make it more difficult for you, arguably however it will make the PvE content more interesting, but that’s for another thread

So, I skipped page 2, so some of this may have been said.

Just to point something out, Guardians have a very low HP pool. So conditions absolutely suck (if you don’t play to get rid of them, which everyone should be prepared to deal with some conditions).

As for them being easy to play, well sure, if you don’t want to play well. It’s true, they have a lot going in favor of them, but if you want to be more than just that guy who survives kinda sorta but doesn’t do anything to help the team, you need to do a whole lot more than just hit 1 and 2.

I main my Guardian, and I utilize shouts and reflect wall and blinds and party regens and anything else I can to help my party survive, and let me tell you, it’s a whole lot more involved than just standing there. Plus, even with the heavy armor, it only means like 1, maybe 2 extra hits before I go down, so dodging is just as important.

Nearly every class has ways to play to deal with the newer content, it’s just about making survivablity is something plan for, and by that I mean way more than just having more toughness or vit, but actually look at your skills and see if you’re doing what you need to to survive.

ZudetGambeous.9573:

They can sink all their stats into dps and end up with 5k dps.

DPS does not mean what you think it means.

I don’t think I would roll guardian with the op crowd anymore. While it’s utility in a group is pretty much necessary these days, by itself it’s not on top of it’s game anymore. I can usually solo better with my thief than guard. Now talk about warrior…well there’s one op mess of a class for sure. I got so tired of facerolling everything I now run my warrior naked except for my pink helmet with the fluffy plume on it. Not even kidding. And I still ran from the bottom of the tower to the top with minimal deaths.

There’s just no skill involved with warrior anymore. Any class that can manage 20k+ crits and still have the highest hp pool in the game along with the highest base armor rating (same as guards I know, just saying it uses the highest armor category), condi immunity, condi cleanse, massive passive hp regen…. that’s op in a nutshell. While you may not be able to squeeze 20k+ crits out of a full bunker type build you can sure get higher numbers than any other class with minimal effort. And yeah, it sure seems most of the content has been designed around that. While that won’t make it unplayable for other classes, it sure makes it a lot more difficult. So if a challenge isn’t what you’re looking for, stick with warrior.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

Regardless, adding enemies with endlessly increasing damage output and health isn’t really a very interesting way to add difficulty.

Seriously? Because it seems to me that this is exactly what you did with the revamped champions in open world…

Demaciaa.2380:

I main necro and guardian, a light and heavy armour class, a condition and direction damage class. And l do play conditions in PvE (mostly) because I enjoy the play style, call me casual w/e…
But I can tell you now, when looking at numbers my guardian is superior in every way imaginable, better dps (DD > condi, heck even the necro’s DD on axe/dag is inferior), better survivability, better team support.
I rolled a guardian a several months a go because I was tired of swaths of necro nerfs happening in PvE because this game is balanced based on PvP. And, from experience I can say this topic title is correct. Play a warrior or guardian if you want an easy time, playing any other class will make it more difficult for you, arguably however it will make the PvE content more interesting, but that’s for another thread

I completely agree. A voice of reason right here.

RemiRome.8495:

ZudetGambeous.9573:

They can sink all their stats into dps and end up with 5k dps.

DPS does not mean what you think it means.

I know exactly what it means, it is far more likely that you are unable to form a proper counter argument so you are going to attempt to nit pick a small semantic technicality that doesn’t actually matter since the point is perfectly clear and you will use that as the basis of your argument. But ultimately you will be wrong, so I have just saved you the troubled of having to bother.

In PvE, condition users are disadvantaged for a number of reasons, the chief reason being the condition cap, but the scaling of stats is now a large reason as well due to the introduction of ascended gear. With a 17% overall potential dps gain over exotic armor, zerker stats far outpace the 5% potential dps gain for condition stat users. (defensive scaling is also poor, but that is a whole different discussion)

This coupled with the fact that many bosses purge conditions, transfer conditions and have reduced condition durations, condition users are almost always outclassed by direct physical damage.

Additionally, while condition users get most of their damage increase from the condition damage stat, you need condition duration and precision as well, the problem is that duration isn’t found on gear, AND it is capped, limiting its effectiveness . precision is only indirectly useful through traits and sigils. This leads to much poorer scaling with gear.

FluffyFox.2756:

Cries Of Sorrow.5864:

Very immature response from a mature person, i think you lack the integrity to judge wether this discussion is mature or not.

No, I agree with Mad Queen Malafide. Anytime someone brings up the “If you don’t like it, don’t play it” argument, then they basically have no argument. People don’t want to simply stop playing a class they like because it’s underpowered or undesirable in parties, etc, they want the game to be balanced so that NOT every optimal setup is the same zerk guard/warr/mes fiasco we’ve seen since the launch of the game.

Basically, by saying you don’t care that a class is underpowered, then you’re actually saying you don’t give two kittens about class balance… and considering this thread is about class balance, well… you put it together :P

Yeah… Id prefer a month or two free from new content and actually BALANCE classes.

Cynz.9437:

Forestgreen.7981:

If you think thief is bad in the tower then you really need to look at ALL the options available to a thief. The BEST PVE COMBO for a thief is sword/pistol where you blind tank 5 elite mobs solo and solo them, something a warrior/guardian can only dream. You can also use smoke screen which has a stupid low cooldown for even more blind and afk farm mobs more efficiently than a warrior ever can.

^^another person who doesn’t read

this thread is about CONTENT not class

No your initial post is about having issues with NEW CONTENT because mobs deal alot of confusion/CC making your thief class unviable in your eyes. In my eyes I see you as having absolutely no idea what my post was referring to which is the solution to your confusion/cc spam. Blind negates all of this completely as all enemy attacks are rendered useless making new CONTENT EZmode for thieves not warriors/guardians.

Seriously are you even reading what you’re writing?

people just not adapt to the new content. 90% of the playerbase prefer to copy a build from the forum instead of thinking what traits and skills they need.

No bigger issues getting through the tower with my 3 favorite professions to the top and soloing hybrid with rampager/berserk gear (engineer, ele, mesmer).

@OP: You title is: roll heavy class or don’t play at all. and now you’re are wondering why there are discussions about every profession? c’mon….

Does everyone only play one class? I’m building my 5th 80 now

I got: war guard mez engineer. building ele now

As someone who pugs regularly and has done a lvl 48 FotM w/ a pug of 5 mesmers successfully, I think rolling heavy is not really required. What is important is that one should have multiple geared characters to suit any needs of the game. I am not talking about getting BiS gear but, exotics.

That said, I don’t know how 5 thieves FotM 48 will work out. Probably great. Gotta try sometime. xD!

Cynz.9437:

Whole toxic mobs: insane condi (confusion especially) spam, insane dmg
Aether path + aether fractals: insane CC/condi spam, stupid high dmg
new runes and sigils

No matter how i look at it, the more LS is added, the more i look at pvp and pve changes the more i have a feeling that devs wants us to play warriors/guards.

Am i wrong?

I personally main thief, i already run condi removal build otherwise i wouldn’t be able to survive a second. I run fractals lv 48 and Teq every day, i finished aether path within 2-3 hours after it came out, i am by no means elitist but i do like to check new content out. HOWEVER i completely gave up on current LS as confusion/torment spam is absurd. Looking as we get aether mobs in fractals and my guess is that lv 40+ gonna be major pita i just can’t imagine my thief being able to do it at all. Not only my lv gonna be reset to 30+ i will also have to roll guardian now probably.

Stop this please. I understand content should be challenging and all, aether mobs are not challenging, they are just stupid confusion/stun spams. I don’t get rewarded for dodging in time because i have only so many dodges and stealth to remove conditions, after that i am dead. Mobs should be designed the way (at least at high lv fractals) that if i dodged in time or used proper CD i get rewarded for it and punished if i didn’t react properly , in reality i just get 10+ confusion stacks on me again despite dodging previous stun or clearing confusions.

@Anet devs: do you guys even test your “new content” on anything else but warriors and guardians?

I find that certain professions fit certain play styles better then others. Why you find some people are good at some professions while others are not. Also, the tower is geared toward group play, not solo. It is why it has been so much fun for me at least. Working with others and helping each other out makes for a far more pleasant and fun experience.

Wethospu.6437:

What was the point of playing Necromancer to begin with? No one told you to do that. And it’s not like it gets any better.

Hey, I remember hearing that Necro was actually pretty decent at scale 70+ fractals….. oh wait.

I’m going to necro this because now non-heavies are getting axed from groups even more with the new instabilities.

AnthonyOrdon.3926:

It’s true that certain professions have an easier time simply dealing with soaking up damage with larger HP pools, but it’s arguable that this is clearly better than the damage avoidance or support mechanics of others. Regardless, adding enemies with endlessly increasing damage output and health isn’t really a very interesting way to add difficulty. That’s why we reduced the HP/Damage scaling in Fractals somewhat and started replacing it with the Mistlock Instabilities that you’ll find starting at level 31.

Molten Berserker one-shots the entire party at level 33. Molten Firestorm oneshots as well. Do you know what reducing damage scaling means? I’ll tell you that it doesn’t mean creating a party wide oneshot mechanic. There are ways of making content difficult without making our toughness and vitality worthless.