Guild Wars 2

AKGeo.6048:

Don’t speak for everyone. Just because (in my opinion) most players lack the attention span to appreciate a slow build-up to a climactic encounter with an arch-nemesis (the lack of which, before she arrived, was lamented ad nauseum by the same community you’re speaking for), doesn’t mean everyone does.

And when those of us that DO have the attention span, but simply hate awful writing say we’re sick of her?

I’m sorry, but this is seriously not good writing. Do some people like it anyway? Yes. But don’t assume that those of us that dislike it are simply too immature or impatient to enjoy good writing.

And how is Scarlet our “arch-nemesis”, anyway? She’s attacking the world as a whole, not us. The Molten, the Aetherblades, … all of it is really nothing to do with us.

Once and only once did she take direct action against our characters specifically. The bomb she mailed to people. And that one action was one where she literally mailed it in. Hardly a personal arch-nemesis, and second rate as a threat to the world when compared to magic devouring god-dragons that are out to destroy the world and corrupt all living things that cross their path.

I like Scarlet. She is funny and nuts. She changes things up. I don’t like it has been dragged on for months though. It seems she has her hands in everything but none fits together for me. I could be missing a piece but I didn’t think so. I will have to try the reactor dungeon I guess to get more information to see if it helps. Overall though, I do like her.

AKGeo.6048:

You can’t choose your enemies, you know.

We can chose our enemies, actually. We can also ignore content, express our dissatisfaction with it, and/or quit playing the game because our perfectly valid concerns are falling on deaf ears.

That’s what people are doing. En masse. To date, about 90% of my friends list is no longer active because the game is heading in all the wrong directions. In spite of all the constructive criticism given at every point in the development, it’s always one step forward and two steps back. And it’s not okay. Not if they want to keep their playerbase.

People who like Scarlet are the distinct minority. Even my 8-year old niece recognized how badly written this whole thing is. I don’t expect ArenaNet to write the next Lord of the Rings. I do expect their writers to, at the very least, follow some basic principles of quality fiction writing and character design.

I agree wholeheartedly with you, deepwinter. I used to actually like the Molten Alliance and the Aetherblades before, as it turned out, they were just thugs hired by a leafy Mary-Sue to stir up trouble. Yes, I know it’s more complicated than that, but that’s how it feels to me. It feels like everything cool and great about the Frost and Flame arc, still my favourite part of the living story, has been completely invalidated because this Twiggy’s come along and shoved herself into it, tainting everything that I ever liked about the Molten Alliance and all the strife it caused.

I can let her non-Sylvari name slide because she made it up herself. I can almost let the attendance of all three Asuran colleges go because they stated that she only took part courses. I can even accept that she took over the Watchknights because, honestly, if she didn’t, someone else would. I refuse, however, to accept that the Inquest would allow her to join (and later leave) their ranks , despite them being notoriously xenophobic Asura supremacists whose members are members for life. I refuse to accept that someone this irritating and awkward could possibly convince the Dredge and Flame Legion, as well as the Krait and Nightmare Court, to put aside their long histories of xenophobia towards other races and work together. I cannot suspend my disbelief enough to be convinced that she can just dump infinite armies all across the world from apparently nowhere for absolutely no reason but to cause pointless mayhem.

I saw this coming. I knew they’d shove Scarlet into the Thaumanova fractal. I assumed that it had something to do with the Steam Creatures, largely thanks to a youtuber by the name of WoodenPotatoes. When she debuted, I felt my joy for finally getting some more Asura lore turn to horror as I slowly realized that, if Scarlet was using Steam Creatures in her attacks, and the Aetherblades use steam weaponry, then all of the purity and wonder of the coming Thaumanova fractal would be polluted by this perversion of what one might call lore.

I won’t be leaving the game because of Scarlet. I don’t hate her quite enough for that. However, I hesitate to acknowledge her involvement in some things as canon. That’s just me, I don’t expect anyone else to. Hey, I’m actually glad that I at least care about this. It means that I still care about the game and its lore.

Overall, Scarlet has been awarded the Warmaster Efut Seal of Disapproval.

When people talk about Mary Sue or fanfic, the basic point they’re getting at is that Scarlet reeks, like most fanfic, of author self-gratification at the expense of either the art (for an ars gratia artis scenario) or the audience (the more relevant factor for commercial art like GW2).

The sad thing is, you can write a terrible fanfic level character and still have it be tolerated pretty well — the player character has many of the attributes of a Mary Sue character, being necessarily involved in all of the storylines and being capable of achieving things that could be game-breaking for an NPC and because GW2 players are more likely to be powergamers than role players.

You just have to write up your TOTALLY AWESOME GUY WHO DID EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE WAS LIKE WHOA YOU’RE AWESOME character’s story, and then make sure you write it so the PC is that guy. It’s audience gratification along with author gratification, and while it may be miserable dreck from a purely artistic perspective, it will go over much better than Kormir (who was really not that bad) or Trahearne (who was worse, but perhaps by necessity) or Scarlet (who is basically inexcusable).

AKGeo.6048:

deepwinter.9015:

Hopefully this thread maintains the constructive criticism these forums require and not be deleted.

I really enjoy this game for a lot of reasons, from dodge rolling to WvW. The world was rich an immerse the moment I stepped foot into it. Once I caught up on the lore by playing Guild Wars 1, I really appreciated the story.

Then a weed named Scarlet was introduced. Sure, she felt a bit wacky, but I was okay with it at first. Then she started cropping up in everything, and it began to feel forced and unoriginal.

Now she is behind the Thaumanova Reactor and there are aether-looking items around the world with a sign saying “DO NOT TOUCH” (clearly of Scarlet design), and I’m just done.

ArenaNet writers, your players are speaking to you.

Listen closely; this is the important part:
We do not like Scarlet Briar!

Don’t speak for everyone. Just because (in my opinion) most players lack the attention span to appreciate a slow build-up to a climactic encounter with an arch-nemesis (the lack of which, before she arrived, was lamented ad nauseum by the same community you’re speaking for), doesn’t mean everyone does.

Her story is being fleshed out gradually…we don’t need to know the entire story and beat her in one update. Want an end-game? You’re getting it. Want an arch-nemesis? You’ve got it. You can’t choose your enemies, you know.

I’m with you on this, OP. Include me in this “We”. This guy is in the minority.

I’m so tired of Scarlet. Her story arc is poorly written and full of plot conveniences that aren’t explained “Tehehe! I can teleport anywhere & I am smarter than any race or group, and can make any xenophobic & misogynistic group follow me…just because!” I can only hope that for Wintersday we see a flaming bolder fall from the sky and smash her so that we can continue on to a proper story arc with (hopefully) a serious villian worthy of respect and interest.

I do not like Scarlet Briar

Scarlet Briar is an underwhelming villain, that has done immeasurable damage to the GW2 Lore.

By having one individual “mastermind” the strategic maneuvering of gigantic factions — from the Flame Legion, to the Dredge, to the Aetherblade, to the Nightmare Court, and now the Krait — any feeling of legitimacy and authenticity these groups have managed to stir in the player base are completely disheveled. Their motivations feel weak, and it just feels so underwhelming.

What’s more, by attributing so many events to Scarlet Briar’s Machinations, the sense that things happen as part of this wide, living, and breathing macrocosm vanish, and we’re left with these awkward strings that try to patch everything together.

Palador.2170:

AKGeo.6048:

Don’t speak for everyone. Just because (in my opinion) most players lack the attention span to appreciate a slow build-up to a climactic encounter with an arch-nemesis (the lack of which, before she arrived, was lamented ad nauseum by the same community you’re speaking for), doesn’t mean everyone does.

And when those of us that DO have the attention span, but simply hate awful writing say we’re sick of her?

I’m sorry, but this is seriously not good writing. Do some people like it anyway? Yes. But don’t assume that those of us that dislike it are simply too immature or impatient to enjoy good writing.

YOU may be sick of her.

Not everyone else is.

Speak for yourself, not others.

I don’t mind her being there but she needs to be better written. It’s not good enough to have her appear at the end, taunt the players, explain the plot, and run off. Yet again!

Please keep Scarlet out of the lore as much as possible. She is an annoying character I’d rather forget. Anet can make awesome villians. They did so again and again. Let’s see some of that again!

AKGeo.6048:

Palador.2170:

AKGeo.6048:

Don’t speak for everyone. Just because (in my opinion) most players lack the attention span to appreciate a slow build-up to a climactic encounter with an arch-nemesis (the lack of which, before she arrived, was lamented ad nauseum by the same community you’re speaking for), doesn’t mean everyone does.

And when those of us that DO have the attention span, but simply hate awful writing say we’re sick of her?

I’m sorry, but this is seriously not good writing. Do some people like it anyway? Yes. But don’t assume that those of us that dislike it are simply too immature or impatient to enjoy good writing.

YOU may be sick of her.

Not everyone else is.

Speak for yourself, not others.

Please point out where I spoke for others there, and keep in mind that it was a response to your previous post. No taking things out of context to make it sound as if the meaning was different.

I do not like Scarlet Briar. Please take the massive amount of feedback you have been given in multiple threads and do a better job next time.

I like Scarlet. What I don’t like is how others are attacking people here for liking her.

While I think there is always room for some improvements, keep up the good work Anet! I look forward to seeing how this story plays out and all comes together. Thank you for not rushing it into a few events.

Rooen.5317:

2. She’s very VERY poorly written. From any stand point. 1302 AE is the first appearance of the first born Sylvari, we are not told but are pretty sure she’s not a firstborn as most of them seem highly regarded as plant people royalty. This puts her to be at most 20 years old. Not only does no one know anything about her, even the pale tree herself the ‘mother’ of all Sylvari never mentions this possible threat at any time. Seems like something an all knowing mother tree would give a hint about. That also means in only 20 years time Scarlett managed to graduate from all 3 asura colleges, travel to the home cities of all the other races, become accepted and lean all of their trade secrets (warband leadership for Charr, great hunt for norn, her own Wyld hunt, and whatever it is humans do…join the army?). As an example Asura are put into pre-classes for their colleges as prodigy (children) so young that one class is ‘nap time’ Asura train their whole lives to be part of a single college. The greatest mind of their race, Snaff only graduated from one. And what’s even a worse kick in the teeth to the pre-set lore is that she ‘saw’ the eternal alchemy? That god like magic to the Asura, the thing they have been trying to understand since their creation? Yea she just kinda saw it for funsies. I would complain even if it WAS an asura who managed it in such a cheap way.

3. Going along with everything stated above she is NEVER mentioned before the Queens event. Not a single bit of info is given by any NPC of this grand master of all races. No matter what town you go to they say and do nothing to tell you that anything in her story ever took place. You would think SOMEONE would know something. If anything a pretty prominent Asura died and even he’s never mentioned. It was only less the 20 years ago.

First bit I quoted. As I recall, they state she was ACCEPTED in the colleges, not “She graduated from all three.” I’ll look in a bit.

Second bit. Bar the Asura (who seem to have put her in the “We don’t talk about that person” area), in the Charr or Norn (Did she ever go to humans? I don’t think it’s stated) she dealt with… at most, a handful of people. Probably more likely the single person she ‘learned’ from. Warband leadership? I don’t recall that really being a secret. Nor is the great hunt.(Given how ANYBODY who goes into the great hall or Hoelbrek will hear Norn talking about it. This is a secret how?)

Traveling between cities isn’t that huge an issue. you know, the asura gates?

A: She studied with the experts of sylvari for 8 years
B: She spent a single, long winter with a norn blacksmith before leaving. The Norn trying to get her to stay so he could pass on his full knowledge.
C: She spent 2 years with a charr gladium. “She learned all the gladium’s secrets.” and announced she was leaving. Which got a comment of being a “feckless cub”. Immediately after that in the short it says “Firearms and artillery are fun, but too simple.”
D: She completed the dynamics coursework in under a year s the highest ranked in her class. Did the same for statis and took longer with Synergetics.
E: After that, she went to the inquest. Is it really shocking she was around for the reactor when her backstory EXPLICITLY says she worked with the inquest for a brief time? After that she was stripped of her credentials and kicked from Rata Sum (gasp, explaining why the Asura wouldn’t talk of her!)
E: after that, she studied hylek alchemy.

So basically, besides the Asura bits, the rest of her backstory involves with her learning a bit, then going “CYA!” and moving on. The Norn and Charr bits both imply heavily she left before even learning everything about the fields. The Hylek bit as well does such.

Her backstory never says a thing about learning the “entire trade secrets of every race.” (infact, she never visits the humans at all), and pretty much implies that besides the Asura coursework, she went “Meh. boring!” and left halfway (or not even that) from learning from the other races.

At the end, she pretty much turns into a villian who claims to have seen this all powerful essence/vision (or has) and then goes mad.

Yes, parts of her writing are lackluster. Other parts are being overblown by people. As noted, she’s really only shown to have TRUE holding over the twisted watchwork and the aetherblades. Molten Alliance was fragile, and the toxic alliance may have had some prodding, but they never talk about her. They focus on the hybrid.

So, A.net has said her story has a planned end. It will come. Screaming to retcon everything they’d produced is just stupid and would ruin the story further. Screaming for her to be ripped apart in super gruesome ways is just overdoing it. Maybe her end comes when her tech fails, leaving her stranded and then captured. Maybe it backfires and we see her teleport near a dragon champion or an elder dragon. Who knows. But it will end.

Yes, I’m reserving full judgement on Scarlet until her story is complete. I admit that there are a lot of parts that I don’t see fitting: the different alliances mostly. Hopefully, it all comes together into a cohesive story in the end. Regardless, I’m just enjoying the ride. This is a video game and the story’s primary goal is to drive the gameplay activities. I’m not expecting Shakespeare here.

Rhialto.8423:

Grimwolf.7163:

deepwinter.9015:

Hopefully this thread maintains the constructive criticism these forums require and not be deleted.

I really enjoy this game for a lot of reasons, from dodge rolling to WvW. The world was rich an immerse the moment I stepped foot into it. Once I caught up on the lore by playing Guild Wars 1, I really appreciated the story.

Then a weed named Scarlet was introduced. Sure, she felt a bit wacky, but I was okay with it at first. Then she started cropping up in everything, and it began to feel forced and unoriginal.

Now she is behind the Thaumanova Reactor and there are aether-looking items around the world with a sign saying “DO NOT TOUCH” (clearly of Scarlet design), and I’m just done.

ArenaNet writers, your players are speaking to you.

Listen closely; this is the important part:
We do not like Scarlet Briar!

I originally voted for Evon, but now I’m glad he lost; I swear to god, the Abaddon fractal would have shown how Scarlet invented a time machine at some point, and was the one who originally defeated Abaddon.

Spoiler alert: Scarlet is Kormir.

Double Spoiler Alert: Scarlet is all of the Elder Dragons.

Really pretty sick of her…

I find it curious how people are angry that she’s in the reactor, when we already more or less knew that from the story posted on the page a while ago. Was this… unexpected to you? Really? O.o

If anything, it confirmed that she probably won’t be “the bad guy”. She’s Chaotic Good in AD&D terms.

What happen to our elder dragons -.-

SoPP.7034:

What happen to our elder dragons -.-

Honestly, though I know this is a very unpopular opinion, I find dragons as the momentum behind a fantasy story “lame”. It’s overdone, and they’re just meh in general. Or maybe mass effect just made me hate such pacemakers.

Now don’t get me wrong, I think Scarlet’s writing is meh (her character is pretty cool at this point ,OTOH). But dragons are no better as a general plot device independent of writing, really.

They’re ok as “part of the world”. But not as a direct threat.

I am missing REAL villains.
The kind of villains, who actually are evil, who have NO scruples at all!
The kind of villains that really feel like a REAL THREAT.
This is the kind of villains, that we fear, that we are scared of, that we long for.

There is nothing better than a real villain.
Scarlet is no villain. She is a clown. She does not even feel like a real character at all.
She just pops up everywhere with no particular reason, babbling about magic and energy and kitten – should we be really interested by this?

Guild Wars 2 lacks something really essential!
CHARACTERS. There are a lot of NPC’s yea … but they are nothing than an empty shell, a 3-D graphics. If you want us to feel even a little bit concerned about then, GIVE THEM LIFE. You were successful with Tybalt. Why not with everyone else?
I didn’t even care when the other two “friends” died. They were shallow characters.

So give them 3-D model a little bit of character development, think it through and maybe let Scarlet kill off 1 or 2 important characters.

THIS will make me feel concerned for Tyria. THIS will make me hate Scarlet as a villain, not as a kittening clown jumping through portals like a freaking unicorn in disguise. Just cut the crap ArenaNet.

sephard.2470:

I am missing REAL villains.
The kind of villains, who actually are evil, who have NO scruples at all!
The kind of villains that really feel like a REAL THREAT.
This is the kind of villains, that we fear, that we are scared of, that we long for.

Interestingly, I feel that “no scruples at all” and “real threat” are diametrically opposed in a video game. Yes, in real life someone who is after me and has no conscience is quite dangerous.
But in a video game, nothing is truly dangerous to me (unless said NPC can perma-kill my character, in which case hats off to the devs for going with that, but I’d agree then :P ).

So an interesting villain who appears to be dangerous to my character cannot be the undefined “Pure chaotic evil”, really. They are not only rather predictable (despite their Chaotic, but this is a result of video game representation), they are inconsequential to my character.

An example:
A villain appears in a game, and throws hordes of enemies at my home city in an attempt to rout us. In the zone right in front of the city, huge epic battles happen all day round as outposts get razed or recaptured and rebuild, and we have to hold out against the hordes day and night.
… and? I kill enemies. Lots of them. Now if you actually find me a MMO where I don’t already do that, it’d make sense, yes. But the villain provides 0 break from what usually happens in the world, so where’s the point? The sense of threat? The “evil”?

This is in fact exactly what hampered the Scarlett Invasions. She provides us with someone we like, lots of farmable enemies in compact patterns. This is perfect. She’s not a danger, despite doing exactly what you’d think someone who is out for us would do.

This is why I said in the other threat that if you want to have a villain in a MMORPG, they need to directly inconvenience the player. Because that is something we care about. The ability to log out or in. The ability to use the facilities (i.e.: cities, teleportation, levelling, skill selection, item switching, respeccing) at our disposal. Assassinate all class trainers after removing the respec thing from the gem store => players are actually negatively impacted by the actions of the villain.
Conquer Lion’s Arch (without us being able to stop it), removing the ability to go there from sPvP and to take portals to the other towns => players are actually negatively impacted by the actions of the villain.

But, though these would work (even though the outcry would be fantastic, we aren’t used to villains actually being dangerous after all, and we’d complain to “the police”, ANet in this case), they imply that the villain isn’t without thought or method.
They are not doing the direct assault, they are not just murdering everyone. They are specifically pinpoint targeting systems, places and NPCs which are of crucial importance to us playing the game, and hence targeting us.

And that would be a truly dangerous villain.

Only, can you imagine the whinefest? No MMO I can think of ever had an actually dangerous NPC threat. WoW came close during the WotLK lead up event with the undead invasion, but even that failed to conquer cities entirely, or lock down entire zones.
I guess the plague counts, but it was unintended, so…

Scarlet did it in the Thaumanova Reactor with a candlestick!

I really hate Scarlet Briar.

I know there’s lots and lots and lots and lots of good reason as to why everyone hates, but I’m more interested in the logic behind it. That is to say… Can someone explain the logic of using this twig as a villain instead, oh you know, DRAGONS?

I am not crazy for scarlet but do not hate her ether.

The next person who says “Scarlet did it” however better give a very detailed explanation of what “it” is because quite frankly no one knows what she has up her sleeve and its getting annoying.
Also the term Mary sue is getting thrown about to much. reality is she is not one.
here.

http://wartower.tumblr.com/post/60458277036/this-lorespecial-is-about-scarlet-briar-the-evil

An in depth discussion about scarlet briar with the story devs. Makes allot more sense than most of the biased drivel in these Scarlet hate posts.

Singer.8740:

I am not crazy for scarlet but do not hate her ether.

The next person who says “Scarlet did it” however better give a very detailed explanation of what “it” is because quite frankly no one knows what she has up her sleeve and its getting annoying.
Also the term Mary sue is getting thrown about to much. reality is she is not one.
here.

http://wartower.tumblr.com/post/60458277036/this-lorespecial-is-about-scarlet-briar-the-evil

An in depth discussion about scarlet briar with the story devs. Makes allot more sense than most of the biased drivel in these Scarlet hate posts.

Yes, because listening to Angel McCoy talking about how awesome her Original Character ™ is while wreaking the lore a new one just to make her exist is consider “acceptable”.

Sarcasm aside, the good writers from GW 1 need to comeback and replace her.

Qawsada.4251:

Sarcasm aside, the good writers from GW 1 need to comeback and replace her.

The “good writers”. Excuse me, did you play the same GW1 I did?

Carighan.6758:

Qawsada.4251:

Sarcasm aside, the good writers from GW 1 need to comeback and replace her.

The “good writers”. Excuse me, did you play the same GW1 I did?

They are sure as hell better than what is happening now. The story is much more compelling and it get better as it better til it hit the Wind of Change. I bet you are going to say “but Vizier is Oblivious eval” or “Kormir steal your godhood” crap or using buzz words like how cliche it is. That is a whole different topic that I could spend pages among pages.

Right now, we are talking about how horrible Scarlet is, how one of the LS writers is forcefully shoving her in every content, and how the players basically have zero way of stopping this.

Yes, but she is a teensy tiny part of “the story”. There are others, like The Things We do For Love (the whole chain basically), which were much better than anything I’ve seen in MMORPGs up to that point, especially because they give the player the choice.

(And honestly, while Thibault was sad, this one was much more evil)

The current LS is pretty lame, but even then only because I consume it in two-weeks intervals. One after the other or happening at once, it’d be pretty nifty. I think at this point the issue is their limited dev resources more than anything else. It feels like they cannot both develop content at a speed where we players accept it and get it QAd and write for it.

Now ofc, I dunno how large/small their team is.

But really, GW1 wasn’t all that good on a lore perspective. The beginning was pretty nifty. The rest was fantasy treadmill. Which is ok for a MMO I suppose, but nothing to write home about.
Yet at the same time, I don’t feel that GW2’s story is weak, compared to other MMOs. Sure it’s weak compared to Planescape Torment, yeah. But I’m not playing PST as a MMO, which is a very different way to play from a “normal” RPG.

I don’t think that its Scarlet thats the bad thing, i think its the continual Scarlet story. There are sooooo many other stories and mysteries to explore that just seeing this one for an entire year is a bit of a drag… It would be cool if we started seeing things about the dwarves, gargoyles, glints baby, any other dragon, the crystal desert, what elonians and canthans are doing, the henge of denravi and the white mantle, how Rytlock obtained Sohothan, where the Scepter of Orr went, why Tequatl has grown stronger, what is Caithe’s mysterious background, where did Canach go, I’m sure you guys know of more than what i just mentioned and what I’m trying to say is that a more compelling story would be multiple mysteries unraveling throughout the course of this game, and not one every 2 years, i say 2 years because I’m sure we will see Scarlet for the rest of 2014. Please Anet! I’m begging to know who “E” is, and who Marjory was chasing in the streets of Divinity’s Reach, and if it happens to be Scarlet PLEASE make it cool =(

Qawsada.4251:

Singer.8740:

I am not crazy for scarlet but do not hate her ether.

The next person who says “Scarlet did it” however better give a very detailed explanation of what “it” is because quite frankly no one knows what she has up her sleeve and its getting annoying.
Also the term Mary sue is getting thrown about to much. reality is she is not one.
here.

http://wartower.tumblr.com/post/60458277036/this-lorespecial-is-about-scarlet-briar-the-evil

An in depth discussion about scarlet briar with the story devs. Makes allot more sense than most of the biased drivel in these Scarlet hate posts.

Yes, because listening to Angel McCoy talking about how awesome her Original Character ™ is while wreaking the lore a new one just to make her exist is consider “acceptable”.

Sarcasm aside, the good writers from GW 1 need to comeback and replace her.

How is she wrecking the lore? I’ve already seen people in this topic (the only one I’ve read) skewing her backstory in ways that aren’t even HINTED at in the short story. At times, it looks like the people hating Scarlet are wrecking the lore to justify their hate of the character. (Such as saying she learned super carefully kept ‘trade secrets’ of the race, like a great hunt that the Norn totally don’t BOAST about publicly.)

Besides the Asura bit (which as said, it just saying “Coursework” and apparently the devs outright said she didn’t graduate the collages. She completed a course and earned a degree(in record time). Hell, the way it sounds to me is the “collages” are more like superguilds for Asura(Just like being in a specific legion for charr). You don’t ‘graduate’ from them at all really.

Also it’s a guy in the audio(He’s talking more then the other person, who I assume is Angel), and he did confirm that basically she was given a semester of work, completed it, and moved on. And that she FEELS she saw the universe. “It remains to see how much is accurate and how much is her broken pysche.”

An interesting comparison made is how she acts like a player does. “The world is a game/my playground. This plan didn’t work? Oh well I’ll do something else. This is fun!”

Carighan.6758:

The current LS is pretty lame, but even then only because I consume it in two-weeks intervals. One after the other or happening at once, it’d be pretty nifty. I think at this point the issue is their limited dev resources more than anything else. It feels like they cannot both develop content at a speed where we players accept it and get it QAd and write for it.

And its because of this, we get poor quality story shove to our face and one can tell that most of the stuff aren’t tested at all. Meanwhile, they promote gemshop stuff every update and basically saying “BUY OUR STUFF!” They might as well just get an expansion up or something that is permanent and before this, they need to get better writers.

Carighan.6758:

But really, GW1 wasn’t all that good on a lore perspective. The beginning was pretty nifty. The rest was fantasy treadmill. Which is ok for a MMO I suppose, but nothing to write home about.
Yet at the same time, I don’t feel that GW2’s story is weak, compared to other MMOs. Sure it’s weak compared to Planescape Torment, yeah. But I’m not playing PST as a MMO, which is a very different way to play from a “normal” RPG.

Just because other mmo’s story suck doesn’t mean this one should too. The way I see it, the writer tries to best themselves with every release in Guild Wars 1 standalones and content, one upping the other. It got to a point where I would consider that their best work is both the Eye of the North and Wind of Change with all the story, interaction, and content both gave to the players to do and witness. Obviously the story isn’t a steer masterpiece , like anything that Chris Avellone have written up, but the story of GW 1 is still entertaining, the world it brought is amazing and eye candy, and the skill set, my god, its kept me busy for hours of playing theoycraft and making so many builds with my characters and heroes.

Here? They are not kittening trying any more and basically goes “Scarlet did it”.

Kalavier.1097:

How is she wrecking the lore? I’ve already seen people in this topic (the only one I’ve read) skewing her backstory in ways that aren’t even HINTED at in the short story. At times, it looks like the people hating Scarlet are wrecking the lore to justify their hate of the character. (Such as saying she learned super carefully kept ‘trade secrets’ of the race, like a great hunt that the Norn totally don’t BOAST about publicly.)

Besides the Asura bit (which as said, it just saying “Coursework” and apparently the devs outright said she didn’t graduate the collages. She completed a course and earned a degree(in record time). Hell, the way it sounds to me is the “collages” are more like superguilds for Asura(Just like being in a specific legion for charr). You don’t ‘graduate’ from them at all really.

Also it’s a guy in the audio(He’s talking more then the other person, who I assume is Angel), and he did confirm that basically she was given a semester of work, completed it, and moved on. And that she FEELS she saw the universe. “It remains to see how much is accurate and how much is her broken pysche.”

Angel or Scarlet? In a sense, I would say both. For Angel, we got this whole thread dedicated on how Angel basically retcon or twisted the lore of Guild Wars 1 to its knees.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/lore/Angel-McCoy-Interview

Scarlet? There is a laundry list of lore breaking alliance, how she is accepted as a student to a bunch of racist characters in the stories so easily, and basically sticking the middle finger at the Asura Lore and how she get to learn from all the college, get to see their religion, and said she is the smartest person in the world. These stuff are mention, repeatedly, in any of the Scarlet thread out there. That audio interview did not change my view of her and it gets a lot worse from then on.

Carighan.6758:

I find it curious how people are angry that she’s in the reactor, when we already more or less knew that from the story posted on the page a while ago. Was this… unexpected to you? Really? O.o

If anything, it confirmed that she probably won’t be “the bad guy”. She’s Chaotic Good in AD&D terms.

Yes, mass murder and invasions really fall into the Good category. If she’s anything but evil then she’s Chaotic Neutral. I hesitate to ascribe any sense of continuity or character development to her, though, since Scarlet feels about as fleshed out as a paper doll.

The GW lore has never been well written. Zhaitan, the eldar dragons and their minions are the definition of generic fantasy villains. Scarlet is – for the lack of a better word – the least boring character among them.

FirstBlood.7359:

Zhaitan, the eldar dragons and their minions are the definition of generic fantasy villains. Scarlet is – for the lack of a better word – the least boring character among them.

Good point. But that’s… actually even worse than just bad.

Think about it: when the height of what you can do with your villains is for them to be bland and forgettable, and any character you try to give them makes them outright hated, what does it say?

There’s certainly value in someone behaving in an insane and childish fashion. It’s interesting. It has value. It’s something. So how do you do it in such a way that it’s even worse than nothing?

Palador.2170:

AKGeo.6048:

Palador.2170:

AKGeo.6048:

Don’t speak for everyone. Just because (in my opinion) most players lack the attention span to appreciate a slow build-up to a climactic encounter with an arch-nemesis (the lack of which, before she arrived, was lamented ad nauseum by the same community you’re speaking for), doesn’t mean everyone does.

And when those of us that DO have the attention span, but simply hate awful writing say we’re sick of her?

I’m sorry, but this is seriously not good writing. Do some people like it anyway? Yes. But don’t assume that those of us that dislike it are simply too immature or impatient to enjoy good writing.

YOU may be sick of her.

Not everyone else is.

Speak for yourself, not others.

Please point out where I spoke for others there, and keep in mind that it was a response to your previous post. No taking things out of context to make it sound as if the meaning was different.

I was replying to that post, but still referring to the one before. What you post does not get overwritten or invalidated just because you post again.

Stop speaking for others.

Draco.2806:

Think about it: when the height of what you can do with your villains is for them to be bland and forgettable, and any character you try to give them makes them outright hated, what does it say?

It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job. It might be popular nowadays to give antihero characters that the audience like more than the protagonists, but does that mean every villain needs to be likeable?

I like how none of the devs answer this posts and even if they answer they usually don’t give any direct answer and in some time the post just disappear and is forgotten. I like it because if they keep staying silent they are just proving that we are right but they don’t have the courage to admit it.

The difference with Kormir, Shiro, and Khilbron is that they show weakness one way or the other, they are not immortal.

Scarlet is just annoying, boring and immortal and is everywhere.

Hopefully, in the future, we might be able to look back to this and laugh at how bad it was while we are playing through an awesome story.

AKGeo.6048:

It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job. It might be popular nowadays to give antihero characters that the audience like more than the protagonists, but does that mean every villain needs to be likeable?

If people hate the villain because they think the storytelling is weak, and the character is not well-constructed, the writers most certainly haven’t done their job.

I don’t hate Scarlet emotionally, I am indifferent to the character, and think she could be replaced with more interesting characters. She is a “Lorem Ipsum” of villains, an empty placeholder. Just there to have some minimal context to accompany new content.

“We need a reason to have glowing krait/lava moles/air pirates. Scarlet did it. Scarlet can do everything.”

AKGeo.6048:

I was replying to that post, but still referring to the one before. What you post does not get overwritten or invalidated just because you post again.

Stop speaking for others.

I do not believe I have, but this is not the place to have such a debate. So, I will simply state that it has never been my intention to do so, and if it seems I have then I deeply apologize. It wasn’t intentional that it would come out sounding like that.

Now, back to the subject at hand.

Carighan.6758:

If anything, it confirmed that she probably won’t be “the bad guy”. She’s Chaotic Good in AD&D terms.

>good
>carried out a massive terrorist attack on DR and attempted assassination on Queen Jennah
>successfully assassinated a councilor and attempted to replace them with a puppet
>deploys biological and chemical weapons on a daily basis

If they do turn around and say “BUT SCARLET WAS GOOD ALL ALONG, GUYS” then it’ll just prove that this writing team has gone completely down the toilet.

AKGeo.6048:

It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job.

Uh, no.

Scarlet isn’t a bad character, she’s a bad character.

When people say they hate Scarlet, what they really mean is that they hate whoever was in charge of coming up with this garbage. This isn’t hate directed at the character, but at the game creators. Just as it was with Trahearne (who isn’t even meant to be a villain).

So we don’t really hate Scarlet per se. We hate the fact Scarlet exists.

Sarrs.4831:

If they do turn around and say “BUT SCARLET WAS GOOD ALL ALONG, GUYS” then it’ll just prove that this writing team has gone completely down the toilet.

At least it would be interesting. Horrible, sure, but “horrible” would still be a big improvement over “Scarlet.”

Incidentally, in DnD, you can very easily come up with a character who’s both a genocidal maniac and “Good”. In fact many Paladins end up this way: cross the road in the wrong place, off with your head.

Pretty neat, actually.

Draco.2806:

Incidentally, in DnD, you can very easily come up with a character who’s both a genocidal maniac and “Good”. In fact many Paladins end up this way: cross the road in the wrong place, off with your head.

Pretty neat, actually.

Depends on your GM. My GM docks points whenever you kill, so that doesn’t work out well.

I still wonder how you’d make a character who kills innocent civilians using hidden bombs could qualify as “good”.

Sarrs.4831:

Depends on your GM. My GM docks points whenever you kill, so that doesn’t work out well.

The beauty of classic gaming is that you can interpret and change the rules however you like. Some do it this way, some another…

Sarrs.4831:

I still wonder how you’d make a character who kills innocent civilians using hidden bombs could qualify as “good”.

A character could still be convinced they were doing good even when committing utter atrocities.

They could be insane, in shock, misguided, blinded by strict ideology, thinking of it as a sacrifice towards the greater good or as punishment towards sinners, they could have a different understanding of morality and goodness than all other people, they could be subtly manipulated by evil forces, or they could simply be making a big mistake.

All this and more are things we won’t be seeing in Guild Wars until ANet hires a competent writer.

Draco.2806:

A character could still be convinced they were doing good even when committing utter atrocities.

They could be insane, in shock, misguided, blinded by strict ideology, thinking of it as a sacrifice towards the greater good or as punishment towards sinners, they could have a different understanding of morality and goodness than all other people, they could be subtly manipulated by evil forces, or they could simply be making a big mistake.

All this and more are things we won’t be seeing in Guild Wars until ANet hires a competent writer.

That’s not quite how the DnD alignment system works because it’s based around objective rules rather than individuals’ subjective view of morality, but I dunno whether we really want to get into that here. But yeah, I get where you’re coming from. Played through Spec Ops: The Line not long ago; that was a blast and a half.

At any rate, I doubt Scarlet will actually make it to trial to answer for her crimes, and if she does, she’ll just teleport out of the courtroom. LATER TATER

I don’t know about you …

… but I was freaking scared of Shiro.

I’m not scared of Scarlet. She is just kittenly unbearable.
It is that kind of annoying, that just makes normal persons rage.

How is that good for the story line? Or GW2 at all?

Draco.2806:

AKGeo.6048:

It says you hate the VILLAIN. Sounds like they’ve done their job.

Uh, no.

Scarlet isn’t a bad character, she’s a bad character.

When people say they hate Scarlet, what they really mean is that they hate whoever was in charge of coming up with this garbage. This isn’t hate directed at the character, but at the game creators. Just as it was with Trahearne (who isn’t even meant to be a villain).

Some people just like to hate anything that comes along in a game where they’ve already made up their minds that it wasn’t what they were expecting based on a bunch of community speculation.

I’m willing to bet that a good majority of Scarlet haters wouldn’t hate her if the game itself had been as big and as convoluted a mess as what the forums were making it out to be before it was even released.

Because that’s what they wanted.

They hate the game, so they hate whatever the game provides, regardless of how much they were crying about wanting EXACTLY THAT only months before.

Tell me: if you were to improve Scarlet’s story as we’ve seen it so far, how would you do it?