Guild Wars 2

Still no Endless Tonic.

Look I get the whole random thing, it’s fine to a point. Here’s what I suggest though. If somebody like me gets continually shafted by the RNG, how about you implement something that rewards persistence as well.

I have 250 of each of the 4 regular tonics that come from ToT bags. Put in a recipe at the Mystic Forge where I can put all that junk and get myself an Endless Halloween Tonic.

Recipe would be:

250 Halloween Tonic + 250 Concentrating Halloween Tonic + 250 Candy Corn Tonic + 250 Plastic Spider Tonic.

I don’t think that is too much to ask since the precedent is already there from the Mad King Chests. I have absolutely zero problem with RNG systems in games like this, I’d even venture to say they are necessary, but you could alleviate some headache by implementing a failsafe of sorts.

It’s not even like the above is easy to get either, it literally took me 10k Bags (about 50/50 split between the two types) to get 250 of each type.

Whaddaya say Anet? Pretty please?

(For the people that are going to call me stupid for wasting that much money on such a silly thing, whatever, it’s my money to do with as I please. I could even have been more economic with what I spent on this too but alas I didn’t do enough research first (once I realized it could drop from regular bags I started buying those and selling the junk instead of buying candy corn for the personalized bags). I also like shiny things. An Endless Tonic is a shiny thing, and I’m trying my absolute best to get the most out of this event.)

It’s not about opening the most bags possible, it’s about being extremely lucky in the first place and getting it after opening a few without even trying. :o Clearly you’re just not the chosen one.

This event is all about being disappointed and frustrated.

Arysta.9530:

This event is all about being disappointed and frustrated.

I’m not particularly angry or frustrated (though the string of foul language my guildmates had to endure might imply otherwise). I’m just simply giving a suggestion about how this could be handled better and give a minor semblance of “fairness” to a RNG system.

And like I mentioned, the precedent is already there with Mad King Chests.

Sounds like we have roughly the same luck and have opened about the same number of bags. Although mine were mostly regular ToT bags (I have another 6k in the bank right now, fingers crossed).

I support this suggestion. It’s just nice to know if the RNG hates you persistence will pay off eventually. Arachnophobia is a good example. RNG hates me but I’ll make it one day!

The instant that recipe becomes reality, my bank is going to become 999 tonics lighter

next time you think about spending 25+ gold on something like trick or treat bags, don’t. mail them to me instead. you’ll waste your money all the same, and you’ll make someone happy.

BrunoBRS.5178:

next time you think about spending 25+ gold on something like trick or treat bags, don’t. mail them to me instead. you’ll waste your money all the same, and you’ll make someone happy.

I’m pretty sure I addressed this in my post. It’s my money to with as I like. You don’t go up to rich people in real life and say “Hey instead of investing in that company, why don’t you just give me the money instead, that way if the investment would have turned out poorly, at least you made somebody else happy.” I realize that the anonymity of the internet allows people to say and do things that are generally socially unacceptable but don’t be that guy.

I got mine from a black lion chest.

Keep trying is my only suggestion. I was at your point last night, however only about 10g down (was buying normal bags and reselling the entire time) and finally got mine somewhere between 15,000 and 16,000 bags. You are almost there, RNG shouldn’t beat on you for much longer

random is random which is why I do not gamble.

If you do insist on playing the gambling game, do not get mad when you lose everything you invested.

As for the permanent tonic craft, it can’t hurt.

I have opened 28,000 (around 25,000 were personal) and still going with no endless tonic, nearly have 3 stacks of each tonic. That recipe sounds nice right about now… But I doubt it will happen, so keep playing the RNG and hope for better luck than me.

Adding a recipe to obtain the endless tonic will change it from a gambling reward to a grinding reward and the complaints will shift from “I gambled and lost.” to “I can’t afford it.”

There’s always next year.

I feel bad for you, I opened at max 300 bags and I got 2 of them and I wasn’t even looking for them nor do I really want them =( The 2nd one I was like WTF this again.

@Mars: Not particularly, most reports of people getting it don’t take nearly as long as I and a few others have. Those people would be looking at it the wrong way. You’re gambling to get it quicker, and investing to get it in the long run.

EDIT: @ Rakuza: Yeah it doesn’t bother me that people get lucky. I understand the way gambling works. It would just be nice to have some of it being put towards something rewarding in the long run.

I’m thinking for me, a stack of 250 tonics is the functional equivalent of “Endless Tonic”

Woah! I didn’t know you can get an Endless tonic from a tot bag. Excuse me but I have to go back to farming the Mad King’s Tower again. It’s a great place for ToT bags, if you’re good at it you can get 10-15 bags each run.

You get it from tot or ptot bags? :0

yeah. i opened about 10k ptot bags none then bought another 9k ptot bags and got 2.
rng is rng

Its about luck not how many bags you open…
im sure someone has gotten the tonic the first bag they open
i dont see why everyone complains when something isnt just handed to them
if you dont like gambling chance items dont play for it do something that is a 100% given result.

You choosed to buy bags and open them its the same thing as if you bought keys and open the chest, then complained that you didnt get a sword skin. When you could have just sold the gems and bought the skin, or farmed the mad king dungeon for personal bags. in fact any MK event gives bags. dont whine that because you spent money and tired do something the quick way it didnt show any results.

Kuishen.6140

I’m pretty sure I addressed this in my post. It’s my money to with as I like. You don’t go up to rich people in real life and say “Hey instead of investing in that company, why don’t you just give me the money instead, that way if the investment would have turned out poorly, at least you made somebody else happy.” I realize that the anonymity of the internet allows people to say and do things that are generally socially unacceptable but don’t be that guy.

the difference here is that you weren’t investing in anything, you were gambling, and your gambling clearly went out of hand.

if i see someone spend a couple thousand dollars on casino bets, losing every single time, then it’s time that person stops. gambling needs a quota, and you should never go beyond that quota, because that quota is what divides a gambler from an addict driving his fortune to ruin (just one more! next one has got to be the one!).

but hey, thanks for buying those bags from me, i guess.

I got mine after maybe 100 bags. A friend has opened thousands. That’s just the way it goes, you need to put it into perspective that it’s a very rare chance at it. You’re not guaranteed to get it no matter how much you spend.

It’s gambling if you spend money on it. If you’re not comfortable spending money on it, farm for candy corn or ask friends who have or don’t care about the endless tonic to send you their candy corn.

Please ArenaNet, at least consider this possibility. I’ve opened over 6000 bags and got nothing.

@Mulch: Sure, but that’s 4 inventory spaces that could be 1. Also not taking into account the leftovers I have. Also I said I like shiny things.

@Bunnehboo: I’d like to know where in my post I was complaining. I was making a suggestion to make the current system better. You are also assuming that I haven’t been farming all this event has to offer throughout the week. I have but time is growing short so I figured I’d try to get it en masse before the event ends. When something has a clear time limit on it, don’t you think they should put at least some kind of limit on the random factor? Because this only happens once per year, and NEXT year there is going to be even MORE things to do, I’d like to get everything out of this event as possible, but can’t because of a silly decision. Like I said, I understand the importance of RNG systems in an MMO, it keeps people playing (and paying in the instance of chest skins), however I also think that it wouldn’t be hard to reward those who are getting extremely unlucky but are persisting regardless, especially when you can’t continue trying after a certain amount of time. The requirements for the recipe I suggested would not be “handing it” to anybody, seeing as how it took a significant investment to get to that point in the first place. I’ve said it twice, I’ll say it again. They’ve already set the precedent with Mad King Chests..

@BrunoBRS: Investments are gambling of a sort, just with different parameters. I’m making the suggestion that this activity be more like a long-term investment with the gamble to get it quickly instead of straight up gambling. Also your talk about addiction and having a quota are irrelevant. My life is not ruined because I spent a bunch of imaginary currency trying to get an imaginary item. I also didn’t ruin your life by spending the gold, so you have no grounds to suggest that I stop and just give the money to you instead.

Nothing has gone out of hand because I will continue to do this until I get a tonic and once I have it, I won’t have any regrets about spending that much money on it. The point I was making is: It’s not your call to tell other people how to spend their imaginary money in a game and I’m not some random raving lunatic complaining and demanding Anet repay me, so kindly stop kitten up my thread.

I got mine after about 500 bags, and tbh your not really missing much, other then fact that it is a bank space saver.

I do agree though that people that put so much effort into getting something should get something out of it.

I did feel a little shafted by loot myself. I had yet to see a single yellow drop while running around the MKR/MKA to the point where it doesn’t even feel RNG – I know it is but after hours upon hours of farming a zone dedicated to this event and not getting gear to gaggle over – that bugged me. Meanwhile players who specced for magic find could get lucky and get three pieces in a couple hours.

Two things:

First of all wtf is an endless tonic?

@ronin
Think it has already been confirmed a few times, that magic find only affect loot from mobs and not chests.

Ronin.7381:

I did feel a little shafted by loot myself. I had yet to see a single yellow drop while running around the MKR/MKA to the point where it doesn’t even feel RNG – I know it is but after hours upon hours of farming a zone dedicated to this event and not getting gear to gaggle over – that bugged me. Meanwhile players who specced for magic find could get lucky and get three pieces in a couple hours.

Magic find doesn’t help all that much, I have a set dedicated to it and a normal dungeon running set on my main character, and I’ve run Ascent of Madness both with and without the MF set. Getting around about the same results, not to say that its a great sample size, but to me it didn’t really make much difference. Anyway this seems a bit off topic.

mrhanky.7803:

First of all wtf is an endless tonic?

’tis a tonic that has unlimited uses and can grant any of effects from the tonics that drop from ToT bags (but not the tonics that drop form Ascent of Madness).

ty:)

•Message Body length must at least be 15.

I didn’t get any Halloween Endless tonics either.
But, in my case i got extremely lucky on the Endless Mystery Tonic.
Didn’t expect anything if all.
Sure as enjoyed the event though. ^^

It’s a RNG…I’m not sure why p[people would go farm 15k or 25k bags for a tonic. People keep calling it gambling.

It’s not gambling have you ever opened the bag and not received an item? Then it would be gambling.

If you bought your bags then it’s your own fault for spending that kind of money.

I’m in the same page as Kuishen. Although i havent received a stack of each tonic type, i got 3 stacks of each yellow crafting material and more than 200 tonics of each type. I think a recipe to make an endless is reasonable. And stop with all this ‘’ohh why would you waste your money on a tonic’’ crap because this game is based on COSMETICS.

I think it’s silly to spend that much on something so inconsequential but with that said, I see no problem with Anet doing something like what you suggest just to smooth ruffled feathers.

What does it do, this Endless Tonic?

I clicked expecting another whine post. But since you were refreshingly reasonable, I would support this for no other reason than so you can get your Endless.

Honestly though, I don’t think that would be a bad system going forward for these types of things. Shiny Item = RNG or fairly significant amount of related items.

@BrunoBRS
“if i see someone spend a couple thousand dollars on casino bets, losing every single time, then it’s time that person stops. "

This is all relative to the amount of expendable income an individual has, who the heck are you to tell me I can’t blow 10 grand in vegas if I make 300 grand a year?

Now I agree that there are individuals that have an addiction to gambling and those should probably seek help. If you’re spending money in a fashion that takes away from your normal life, e.g. Spending rent money on blackjack, or skipping a meal so you can play slots. This I would agree is unhealthy and needs to be addressed by the individual.

There is a pretty obvious difference between the two. While one may not be “smart” it’s not detrimental. The other is self destructive behavior.

Gawddang… so this is where all the Trick-or-Treat bags I put up on the TP went… Well, I wish you had better luck, sir, but thanks for fattening my wallet just a bit.

Reevac.1748:

It’s a RNG…I’m not sure why p[people would go farm 15k or 25k bags for a tonic. People keep calling it gambling.

It’s not gambling have you ever opened the bag and not received an item? Then it would be gambling.

If you bought your bags then it’s your own fault for spending that kind of money.

Excellent point, I agree.
Anyone who doesn’t agree. Please don’t try to counter this by explaining ‘gambling’.
It’s really just a hint, I see this all the time. It’s crazy.

When someone says: “I don’t know what you were thinking, that’s gambling.” You have to know that he is comparing it to something outside the context we are in, just to let you know how he sees this. If you don’t agree, you could say … okay, you think it’s gambling, but … you could even say or ignore the gamble thing, you can say whatever you want. But how can you possible think that you can win this by changing the definition of gambling.
Even if you could, it would not mean a thing because his opinion was not based on his view on gambling. I

I see a lot of financial/marketing/rhetoric experts on this forum using their expertise to prove a point. “investment is gambling so can gambling be seen as an investment” is a very interesting topic but just a reflection.
Feel free to go on, but please don’t be surprised when a real expert shows up. And I’m not talking about myself.

Comparing is good … but don’t go too crazy with them.

I almost gave up on endless. Spent 7k tot bags. They i had left like 170 corns. So i gave em to the kids runnin around got like 30 bags, was just opening them without hope, and in the last bag there it was, the endless elixir. So happy xD

~1000 bags open, got an endless tonic.

Random is random, they’re not ripping you off.

@ Sneski: I’m sure there is a point you’re trying to make, but since nobody has tried to say this isn’t gambling or “change the definition of gambling” I’m not sure why you posted.

I never said this wasn’t gambling. I’m asking the question: Should it be a gamble when you only have a limited time every year to get the reward? I’m also putting forth a reasonable suggestion to make it not so much of a gamble.

What does it do, this Endless Tonic?

I know of 5 different endless tonics (with different transformations): tree tonic, furniture tonic (yes it exists, i saw it in action!), animal tonic, halloween tonic and mystic tonic.

The first ticket you buy for a lottery has a 1:22,957,480 chance of winning.

The 10,000th ticket you buy for a lottery has a 1:22,957,480 chance of winning.

The 22,957,480th ticket you buy for a lottery STILL HAS a 1:22,957,480.

You are not increasing your odds of winning for each bag, because every single bag you open has the same probablility. You are thinking that in a pool of your 10k bags, someone put in a winner. However, there does not HAVE TO BE A WINNER in that pool.

RNG.

Omg random loot is random??? Who would have thought!?!

I don’t believe anybody gave the impression that it worked otherwise. But thank you for the information.

I think the only change to the endless tonic should be it’s account bound status. Let those of us that get one have the option of passing it along.

i kinda felt the same way about the mk event and how everyone except me seemed to get exotics. after about 40 runs being in groups with other people texting their exotics and stuff, and some people in the same group getting more then one before the group would break up just seemed not fair to me. but i knew it was luck just like rolling a dice with 100’s of sides hoping its gonna land on the exotic side. but earleir i ran in a group and finally got an exotic then next run got a rare recipe then back to greens. then went to queensdale and got the email for day 4 event i guess i got lucky after all and got 1 right before it ended like that lol.

This thread sounds like almost anyone I know who went to vegas expecting to come back rich.

Just because you assumes if you took enough chances and invested enough time and money that you would win, doesn’t make it so.

How many players do you think actually got what you were looking for? thank goodness most of them are not childish enough to make a thread complaining about not winning when they took a gamble.

@ Coglin: Did you even read my posts? Apparently not. I love how everybody is so quick to condescend to me, thinking themselves smart for pointing out I gambled and lost.

Hurr Durr. I didn’t expect anything. I hoped for a tonic, I haven’t gotten one yet. Oh well. I know how gambling works.

I’m making a suggestion, with an example that what I’m suggesting has been done before. I never complained once.

How about you stop trying to assert your intelligence over the internet by kitten up my thread with assumptions that have no basis.

It’s obvious that Kuishen understands that it was a gamble. There is no need to be condescending about something when you’re completely missing the mark. The point, and it’s a good one at that is that you have two options:

a) Get lucky and get an endless tonic early

b) Have gotten so many mats from several thousand bags- not hundreds, not a few thousand, but upwards of ten thousand bags- that you could craft the tonic.

This is perfectly fair and reasonable. Both options get something, option b just takes a much, much longer time and investment to get. This is not hard to comprehend or consider, there is no need to bash Kuishen for being less than happy that they are getting nothing out of the materials they have, when such a recipe could be reasonably added.