Guild Wars 2

I just want to add my voice against the growing chorus of opposition. I absolutely LOVED the jump tower. It was very difficult which was the primary thing I loved. I knew it was possible but I just needed to better myself and stop making small mistakes with each jump, and eventually I mastered it segment by segment until finally I cleared it. Not only was I exhilarated in finally finishing it, but the struggle made the eventual completion that much sweeter.

Not that I don’t have criticisms. Sure when I was running with two norns, and a char it became very difficult to see; perhaps next time normalize all of the characters into a costume—like a skeleton. That way they are all the same size and it would eliminate 90% of the complaints. It was an optional event with rewards that were good, but not by any means game breaking.

I sincerely hope that Anet continues to create events like these. I for one am impressed with their work on the Halloween event thus far.

No way I was going to read everything in this thread, first page and last comment before I replied.. MrMT summed up what I was gonna say. So I’ll be redundant

Let’s take off our gamer goggles once in a while, and accept that, like in real life, we simply do not have the ability to do everything. I do not rage and get depressed because I can’t run a 4 minute mile. Likewise, I cannot do a lot of stuff in game because I run on a laptop using a touchpad instead of a mouse. I am not skilled. period.
So I accept that and try things first, then if it is apparent there is no hope, I move on. Instead I’ll watch a video of someone who makes it look easy and pretend it was me!

Too many people use games to feel like they are superhuman, and that’s great, maybe even the point, but sometimes you just have to be realistic. Maybe you really aren’t superhuman. Relax. I won’t tell anyone.

The fact that it’s timed makes it much worse. The issue is camera angles.

I have to spend extra time readjusting the camera to line up a jump or to look ahead. It’s terrible when I’m playing my Norn. I find that unfair that Asura gain an advantage over other characters because they’re smaller and the enviroment does not zoom in on the character as often as a Norn would.

The grouping makes jumping difficult. With the puzzle being timed I am usually with a number of people making jumps simultaneously which makes it difficult to judge where I am at on the screen.

ANet, you tried to make something fun only to fail. I wish you would be more successful at making jumping puzzles, but honestly you can’t.

misshap.1045:

Not that I don’t have criticisms. Sure when I was running with two norns, and a char it became very difficult to see; perhaps next time normalize all of the characters into a costume—like a skeleton. That way they are all the same size and it would eliminate 90% of the complaints. It was an optional event with rewards that were good, but not by any means game breaking.

I think a lot players are overly defensive about this challenge thing anyway like it’s a precious thing and everyone voicing criticism is potentially threatening in that their logic could sway ANet into nerfing it Blizz-style. But your suggestion is actually in line what I have suggested as well. Being able to see and control your character might be an elitist and whiny attitude to some but I don’t see anything wrong with it nor do I see it as resounding call for a nerf. Same for camera not randomly flipping around.
I would probably suggest that your character’s and ground geometry’s outlines become more visible at least if obstructed in the same way you can see units behind walls in some RPGs or strategy games.

Other than that I think it is fine and maybe my other suggestion about removing the ooze and introducing a timed appearance for pieces would be more detrimental hence my focus on camera,visibility and response all hindered by technical issues.

Some disabled are more like just having a disorder which means they can still do that but it is harder. They fail more often than the average player, and much more if the challenge is actually not seeing yourself and having your viewing direction blocked because the camera just started wiggling around. But these issues have been an annoyance for players without physical issues so in this manner it would even the ground for both parties. It’s again not even close to a call for a nerf.

As for introducing an easy mode, I would not mind if it were experience-only something like exploration and real mode and the achievement and reward would reflect that but I am having a feeling that this game will rather address technical issues than making it easier in any form. Making it available for truly disabled players is a challenge for every developer because between trying to cater to color-blind, deaf and/or epileptic players you have to eventually make a compromise because of resource or technical constraints. Maybe one day when mind-to-machine control works we can have truly equal ground here.

BobJoeXXI.2493:

I have to spend extra time readjusting the camera to line up a jump or to look ahead. It’s terrible when I’m playing my Norn. I find that unfair that Asura gain an advantage over other characters because they’re smaller and the enviroment does not zoom in on the character as often as a Norn would.

I am agreeing with you but from the opposite/Asura point of view. I find it unfair that Norn get to see their characters. I don’t know about race-specific character issues because they have been confusing for me as well on every character.

Well I had my share of frustration but overall really fun, completed it on all my chars in like 2.5hours total (including asura vs norn) \o/

Should make more like this (and maybe an easy mode version for the disabled).

I truly wonder what the people complaining in this thread would do if someone told them to play Super Mario 64.
Anyway, I made a little something for you, enjoy:

I had fun, did it without speed boosts on several alts. Honestly, some of you people never would have survived the Super Nintendo. NINTENDO.

I gave up on this puzzle. Have arthritis in my hands and pretty much tried for hours with my hand seizing up so not worth the pain. Hard to see where jumping sometimes at beginning with people in way which as you get past them gets btter but still hard to do.

Really hope that the tower isn’t part fo the requirement for the Emissary of the mad King.

One thing I do agree with many people that have stated is that this is a event/festival and that everyone all level of play skill should have the opportunity to complete all the event items. I am a bit surprised they would put something so difficult in this and have seen a few mad players because of ths tower that truly are not enjoying themselves and have even logged off for a day to get away.

I also like the suggestion of an easy mode. I couldn’t care less about the slippers or whatever in the chest and just want the special event bar filled for this event.

I am sure now that will stay incomplete for the life of me playing this game now.

Zionka.6897:

No way I was going to read everything in this thread, first page and last comment before I replied.. MrMT summed up what I was gonna say. So I’ll be redundant

Let’s take off our gamer goggles once in a while, and accept that, like in real life, we simply do not have the ability to do everything. I do not rage and get depressed because I can’t run a 4 minute mile. Likewise, I cannot do a lot of stuff in game because I run on a laptop using a touchpad instead of a mouse. I am not skilled. period.
So I accept that and try things first, then if it is apparent there is no hope, I move on. Instead I’ll watch a video of someone who makes it look easy and pretend it was me!

Too many people use games to feel like they are superhuman, and that’s great, maybe even the point, but sometimes you just have to be realistic. Maybe you really aren’t superhuman. Relax. I won’t tell anyone.

Just wanted to say Kudos to you.

That’s a very mature way of looking at things, and I truly wish we had more people in this community like yourself.

After having finally succeeded after 3 hours, I don’t feel any sense of accomplishment or relief whatsoever. To the contrary, while the rest of this event has been fun I despise this jumping puzzle with all my might. I just can’t shake the feeling that the developer responsible for designing it seems to have been less interested in making a fun and entertaining experience than in acting out some kind of passive-aggressive grudge on players.

The mad clock tower is a stroke of genius, I can see it paving the way for dungeon gauntlet runs or competitive jumping puzzle races.

BUT.

BIG BUT.

Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to have you group with a large mass of people so you can’t see the platform beneath your feet AND this is the real kicker; when you fall and have to start again you have to wait almost a minute before it starts and even then you have to watch that clip of the tower again.

Those seconds feel like hours and I don’t know why it was decided to be there other than to really frustrate and anger people doing something so fun, I would love to do the clock tower again but considering how long it takes because of falling wait timer I really can’t be bothered. My wife gave up because of the waiting timer, not because it was difficult.

You only have to wait until the last person falls or completes the puzzle, so if you’re last to fall, there’s no wait.

I like watching the clip of the tower because it shows me how far I’ve made it before I fell. So far I’ve managed to make it about 3/4 the way up. There’s almost no wait once you make it to the pink part of the tower, and most people don’t even make it past the “pause” section so there aren’t even any character models to worry about either.

Vaulken.6983:

The mad clock tower is a stroke of genius, I can see it paving the way for dungeon gauntlet runs or competitive jumping puzzle races.

BUT.

BIG BUT.

Who on earth thought it would be a good idea to have you group with a large mass of people so you can’t see the platform beneath your feet AND this is the real kicker; when you fall and have to start again you have to wait almost a minute before it starts and even then you have to watch that clip of the tower again.

Those seconds feel like hours and I don’t know why it was decided to be there other than to really frustrate and anger people doing something so fun, I would love to do the clock tower again but considering how long it takes because of falling wait timer I really can’t be bothered. My wife gave up because of the waiting timer, not because it was difficult.

just get better at jumping, then you dont have to wait that long, most times i only had to wait like 3-9 seconds.

When I did the clocktower I was in a group of like 10 people, no problem with “not being able to see the platforms”.

The problem is not anet, it properly just ur jumping skills. :P

What’s really amusing is that today’s patch actually made the tower harder.

It’s not absolutely important that you complete this puzzle. I for one am glad that they finally have a challenging jumping puzzle.

You do not need the trait speed boost although it does help if you’re slacking. Just stick to the inside when doing your jumps after the first animation. I see people going on the outside which just wastes time. You also have to be constantly moving and not stopping to aim for your next jump.

Holy mother of God I loved the jump puzzle. There’s nothing wrong with, maybe you just:
A. Don’t like jump puzzles.
B. Are bad at jump puzzles.
C. Don’t like a challenge but prefer to have content that can always be beaten on the first try.
D. All of the above.

I’d bet on D.

When I try to participate in the Clock Tower jumping puzzle, I will get the cutscene of the tower, then see all participants standing on a cog with the cutscene video icon above everyone’s heads (which as you know prevents movement) for about 5 seconds, and then I get kicked back to the puzzle lobby.

As I’m playing from Australia, I assume this is a latency issue. It would be nice if there’s a short grace time before the puzzle starts so people with slower connections or whatever could catch up before they get kicked.

I’ve already done it. Even when I’d constantly get quite far it’s still annoying as hell having to wait and sometimes you can fall for screwed up reasons which totally ruin the fun because you have to wait again.

http://i.imgur.com/pscWi.jpg

I am the Asura in the front center in the image above.

I really think the tower is a cool idea. A fast-paced event with no room for slacking. It’s however immensely confusing when your character is occluded. The camera issue has cost me many tries as well and I have tried every camera trick so far it just won’t stick. I am also running with the new vertical FOV setting activated.

I’m glad it’s hard, and I’m glad they did it in groups. I liked having my guildmates with me as we did it, kinda motivated us like it was a race. Once I got the hang of it the mass group of people really wasn’t a problem.

I’m also glad it’s not something for someone to just run and do in 5 minutes, and actually takes a few tries. I don’t want spoiled brats who think they should have what they want when they want it the way they want it getting my hard earned achievements (not implying the op is that, just saying in general).

Can’t buy your way up this tower either.~

Godslayer.1203:

I’m glad it’s hard, and I’m glad they did it in groups. I liked having my guildmates with me as we did it, kinda motivated us like it was a race. Once I got the hang of it the mass group of people really wasn’t a problem.

I’m also glad it’s not something for someone to just run and do in 5 minutes, and actually takes a few tries. I don’t want spoiled brats who think they should have what they want when they want it the way they want it getting my hard earned achievements (not implying the op is that, just saying in general).

Can’t buy your way up this tower either.~

I think a guild can coordinate far better than a crowd of random people. If you are bunched up with randoms that “mass of people” tends to become confusing hence why I think they should either address that in a way that people do not get confused by occlusion and camera. Or find a way to make sure you are seeing your character properly all the time because of that you can truly see whether it’s a personal skill cap issue. It’s really the only issue I have and in general it seems a widespread criticism. Most people I have seen in chat were okay with the difficulty just raging a bit about character sizes. I have made it a habit of leaving-reentering in order to find a small-to-medium sized group (by bodysize). It was the only time I actually had some decent tries.

I noticed that the mad rush is where I was getting lost in view, but if you hold back half a second or so, you can still make the run behind everyone without a problem.

… and by thunder, I’ll take on the Clocktower until it’s done. See, I actually do like platforming.

Good Lord, you can even give me 1995 Tomb Raider and I’ll do it. That was a game lambasted for its combination of sluggish response and pixel perfect jumps, but honestly, give me that engine again, and I’ll do it.

But not with GW2’s delayed-reaction controls, diabolical camera and bizarre, whimsical collision detection. The way I’ve approached every other jumping puzzle is to scan the terrain as carefully as I can to make the right decisions about which surfaces my character will actually cling to and what jumps she can make. Since the rising tide of ectoplasm makes that impossible, what we have is a jumping puzzle that can only be completed by making mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake and trying again and again and again and again, and even then, you’re liable to be betrayed by the camera swinging about weirdly.

Yes, it’s challenging. So is breaking your own fingers. Well done, if that’s what the aim was.

(On the other hand, Dierdre’s Steps was great.)

I noticed that the mad rush is where I was getting lost in view, but if you hold back half a second or so, you can still make the run behind everyone without a problem.

Or jump in front of them all.

Seriously though, while I agree that it becomes a non-issue after enough practice, it is discouraging for the “little people” just starting out. And the suggestion to find a way to make it so you can see your character regardless is not a bad one. If it were possible to target ourselves, we could at least see the outline of our own characters (plus I want to see my 100% completion star). I don’t see what problems this would cause any more than targeting any other allied character, as there are no skills that target self or allies, just the ground or enemies. I think it’s worth a look into.

Personally, I liked having people to chat with and time to chat with them, and the cutscene was nice.

This is probably the funniest and most accurate description of this jumping puzzle and how I feel about it that I’ve seen yet. I appreciate the lack of whining and straight forward evaluation. Well done and amen.

Thank you, someone who understands the problems.
I think it stems from not being able to control your jump height by holding the jump button and only having one running speed: 0 or 60 MpH.

With a joystick/thumbstick you have various degrees of speed and you were able to have different jump heights making the controls transparent so you can actually focus on the hard jumps.

I am more busy fighting controls and crappy camera than ctually attempting the jumping puzzle

I’m resigned to the fact that I’ll never complete the puzzle. Gutted yes but hopefully it won’t impact on any titles the event may throw out if I do every other achievement

I started to get a little frustrated with the event then I decided that it was intended to make us go crazy… it was designed by Mad King Thorn and all. I was half expecting to get up to the top and get nothing other than an insti-kill from the Mad King.

Breaking your fingers isn’t actually that challenging if you try it. Go on, give it a whack.

Focksbot.6798:

Since the rising tide of ectoplasm makes that impossible, what we have is a jumping puzzle that can only be completed by making mistake after mistake after mistake after mistake and trying again and again and again and again

Sounds like a video game. Planning time is a luxury, not a given.

I made it to the top 14 times last night and failed the Belfry jump as many times.

… It turns out I was in a bugged instance. Some people made it, but no matter how well I timed the jump it never went through. Today I did nothing different on that last jump and I nailed it.

WHY

I really don’t see the big problem here.
Yes it’s a hard puzzle, took me about 1.5 hours to do, don’t expect to do it in a few minutes.
I didn’t notice a big camera problem, what control settings are you all using? I have it set so I just hold right click and move my mouse to turn, that way I wan just hold ‘W’ down and keep turning my mouse to navigate the puzzle.
The problem of other characters shouldn’t matter once you’re past the first section because if you aren’t at the front of the pack you simply aren’t going fast enough, you’ll never make it anyway.
I think you’re all just trying to justify your inability to do the puzzle.

You’re right. ANet didn’t pay much attention to perfecting – or even improving at all – the most crucial part of what they’ve based a great chunk of their content on. Even the early-bird reviewers chastised them for it.

It’s not like it’s an easy thing to do to begin with, but results speak for lack of understanding of what collision meshes should do to begin with.

May I suggest shooting off an e-mail to Overgrowth developer (Wolfire), asking them how to integrate proper platforming methodology into a modern action game?

For the record, I completed the puzzle. It’s exactly the kind of thing you DON’T do unless you have the mechanics in place to make the experience not horrible.

<points to the “In my view clock tower is not fun” thread>
There’s no need to clutter the forum, is there?
It’s difficult and challenging and once you’re used to the points where the camera spazzes out, you’re good to go.
I spent 2 hours at it today and I noticed considerable progress in how far I get. It’s fun and though can be a little frustrating sometimes, there have been other Jumping Puzzles I have also been mad at for not working it out easily. Haven’t finished it yet, but there are still several days left to the 31st, so don’t panic.

It’s not required for anything except one achievement that isn’t part of the meta-achievement. It’s a fun challenge. Just don’t do it.

It’s so sad to see people immediately blame the game and developer instead of genuinely trying to overcome the challenge.

Ran 5 different alts through it with no problems, all different races. Sure it took me a couple of hours to get the jumps down, but after you learn it, it’s pretty easy. I thought it was the best thing to come out of the entire halloween event.

Ayperi"

I spent 2 hours at it today and I noticed considerable progress in how far I get.

Good God, man, this is my approach to learning ninjitsu or an instrument – something that has applicability to daily life – not getting up some dodgy stairs in a computer game. ;-)

Focksbot.6798:

Good God, man, this is my approach to learning ninjitsu or an instrument – something that has applicability to daily life – not getting up some dodgy stairs in a computer game. ;-)

Good God, man, I had a week of work and spent most of the weekend, including today, clearing about a ton of wood from a cut down tree in our front yard. I’m sore as hell so forgive me for feeling accomplished about a few hours playing a relaxing and fun bit of video game. Cheesus, where do people get the idea that if you’re feeling a bit accomplished with something in a video game that your view of reality is warped?

Edit: Why does the Quote button only appear after I’ve posted a reply? O.o

I’ve done the thousands of hours on platforming games the OP speaks of.

This is still not fun. It’s not fun because the progress-to-effort ratio is insanely low. I remember when it was generally accepted that Tomb Raider was a seriously flawed game because of how perfectly you had to do everything to progress. But you could still manage a jump on the fourth or fifth try … usually.

This is the platforming equivalent of asking someone to memorise a sequence of 100 different numbers. It’s challenging, it’s possible, but why put in so much effort to achieve something so singularly inapplicable to any future situation?

I have never had any trouble with the camera.
Do people that complain about the camera move it with a key instead of the mouse or something?

I didn’t find it remotely fun, and gave up very quickly without getting anywhere near success.

That’s fine by me, though. There are a number of elements in this game I don’t find fun, I find them pretty easy to ignore. As long as there are enough elements which are fun to keep me playing, I’m staying.

Ayperi”

Cheesus, where do people get the idea that if you’re feeling a bit accomplished with something in a video game that your view of reality is warped?

The winking emoticon was supposed to indicate I was being waggish.

In all honesty, though, I guess we just have a different idea of fun. I like platforming and I do find it fun … but only on the basis that two hours of investment gets me much, much further than a few steps higher.

Advice for asura

1. Change instances to try and get fewer Norn and Charr (you can do this by simply stepping back out the door and talking to the guy to go to the tower again).

2. Learn to time the first jumps BEFORE the stuff comes down. You can jump as soon as you hear the rumble and still make it.

3. Memorize the first ten jumps and never aim… just bounce them fast.. if you fall no biggie, but when you make it, you will be in front of everyone for when the puzzle gets hard.

Shadow Order.7258:

All I know is this one failed puzzle has me wanting to leave this game. Sad as I liked this game but a few days ago and have even spent $150 in the gem store in the last couple months. Oh well, spilt milk I guess.

You’re going to leave because of a puzzle… that just gives you an achievement…that really doesn’t mean much? LOL. This was the best thing i’ve heard all night. Ahaha, thank you. Thank you for that.

This jump puzzle is harder than Mega Man 9.

Well, it is the mad<< king’s clock tower. I think the difficulty is awesome and makes me love it. You can’t please everyone, but you could have separate difficulties with different rewards like there are in certain events. Please don’t nerf the kitten out of clock tower just because some people think it’s challenging.

Sorry mate, I might be a bit edgy right now. I’m actually really enjoying Halloween and though some things (like bugs, bugs and cameras) could be better, I’m getting annoyed when I come to the forum and half the threads are about people complaining and then some more feeling entitled.
But seriously: you should have seen me and my guild mates in our first week trying the Dark Reverie Jumping Puzzle in Caledon. We actually went at it over the span of a week and “I will survive” became our inofficial guild song. Either you died from freaking brambles on the way up or that one jump on those higher up mushrooms got the better of you. So no, I don’t feel very frustrated with this one. It pricked a bit when two friends got to the top before me, but oh well. Now I’m fired up. ^^

Cakoluchiam.6901:

This jump puzzle is harder than Mega Man 9.

I’d like to see AVGN review this jumping puzzle, haha.

Seriously though, I loved this puzzle, when you first make it up to the 2nd part your heart starts racing. When I made it I almost jumped out of my chair

Redamz”

I have never had any trouble with the camera.
Do people that complain about the camera move it with a key instead of the mouse or something?

For me, the first thing that happens is it sticks. Every instance, I have to take my finger off M2 and press it down again to make it move.

Then, because I have to manually adjust it all the time I’m moving round the tower (instead of the camera staying behind you in the way it would in a normal platforming game), I end up frequently having to pick my mouse up and move it back across the pad. When I put it down and press M2 again, the camera likes to jerk in an odd direction, because I’ll have adjusted the way my character is facing in that time.

That’s my experience.