Guild Wars 2

AveryFarman.2973:

Chrollo.2173:

I like…can’ turn in mid air. I have to land and turn like a kitten I watched some videos of people doing it online and it seems like they have the pathing memorized…which scares me how many times it probably took them to get like that.

I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not falling, but I’m just not fast enough. That beginning part with the rubble is the hardest part of the whole thing…it’s like designed ti discourage and frustrate people!

As others have posted, the designer apparently only wanted 1 in 20 players to actually complete it. It is, in fact, specifically designed to discourage and frustrate 19 out of 20 players.

-Why- the designer thought that was a good idea for a limited-time special event, however, is a different and more puzzling question.

It, in fact, designed to be a fun, enjoyable challenge. I don’t think it’s fair to infer that it was specifically designed to frustrate and discourage 19 out of 20 players. There’s zero evidence to base that statement on. On the contrast, everyone is encouraged to try! You might find it frustrating because you are unable to do it and feel entitled to it regardless, but that’s on you. There’s nothing in the design to frustrate or discourage anyone.

The only real issue is for anyone with a disability that, say, affects if they can mouse turn. Character models are not an issue, the puzzle and be done by anyone and if you’re careful about camera, you’ll manage.

This puzzle…ugggh..I hate the gears so much

Also, is anyone else having trouble with the platform you drop to? I have yet to see it out of the mist

I finally completed this kitten thing and got the achievement (don’t care about the loot): I’m RELIEVED I don’t have to do it again.

AND I did it as a keyboard turner!

Despite my success, I ‘still’ think it should be tweeked a bit. As, ya know, I think of the other’s not as capable as I am, especially for a limited holiday event. I’m not saying everyone should be able to complete, just most….

Some people are very good at platforming under pressure and not swayed by distraction. Others can bite through it with enough determination. To many others, it’s a futile exercise in frustration, as seen by the reactions across Tyria.

I consider myself pretty quick on the keys with good coordination, yet was put in my place by the demanding pace and a lack of knowing the path. Strong negative feedback reinforces the assessment that this is not a test of mental aptitude, as a puzzle demands, but rather one of speed, timing, memory and determination.

In other words, it’s a challenge, not a puzzle, and that is legitimately deceptive. I recall difficult jumping puzzles across Tyria; they give you pause and make you use powers of observation, critical thinking and ultimately lead to discovery. By contrast, the Tower can be described as a spiral of death and misery with an unforgiving pace designed to cause panic and force mistakes.

Halloween-spirited evil fun? Yes. For everyone? No-no.

Still, I don’t believe the Tower should be made easier or slapped into private instance. IMO, it was simply wrong to roll it out as a puzzle, and difficulty should have been emphasized given the game itself is very easy and such a challenge in a holiday event is highly unorthodox.

Nerfing the Tower isn’t right, but neither are those that think that, because success is attainable, complaining amounts to entitlement and whining. Both sides need to calm down, and hopefully ArenaNet has learned that our community needs one thing above all: clarity.

I personally expected a challenging puzzle with a few twists; I didn’t expect a mad dash with death hot on my heels.

I am sure it has been said, but I am adding my two-cents for ANet: Clock Tower is a good puzz and a neat idea – hard, and that is cool. The game camera, however, is god-so-terrible (worst of any game I have ever played). Put the two together and it’s a disaster. It is fine to die because you cant jump, run, etc. – ok, I am cool with that, if I suck at jumping, I pay for it by starting over, but it is no fun at all to have to srtart over (and over)(and over) because the camera zooms-in for no good reason and suddenly you cant see what the H is going on…and, well, you dont have a lot of time in there. (And it does matter if the Camera is set to “Free” or follow.)

Let be known after about 6 total hours working on getting this, I did it. Do I think its fun? No. It was the essence of grinding form my view point. The same thing over and over and over. I stand by my suggestions to make this more fun:

1. Make this a solo instance or like the story line instances.
2. Slow down the green ooze by about 10% not much but just enough.
3. Get ride of the points where platforms spawn in.

I completed this and I still firmly believe that this should be more accessible as it is a holiday event with limited time and people should enjoy it and not be constantly spamming /cry or saying “This is frustrating.” Frustration ? fun.

LOL @ the people who want it easier. Yeah, it took about 2 hours for me to get it going. Part of that time was trying to figure out for myself what to do after the dead-end, but after that I’m farming the tower just for fun, farming whole stacks of 250 Trick-or-treat bags, and listening to other people whine about my big norn LOL.

Clocktower is a masterpiece.

SolarNova.1052:

Conclusion: To many whinners wanting things handed ot them on silver platter

Wrong and again how many time do we have to say it. We don’t want it handed to us on a silver platter. We are asking it to be a solo instance to get rid of the grief as a result of others being present. This doesn’t change how hard completing the puzzle is. It only changes it so that everyone has equal chance at finishing it. All the people who are saying it is fine do so because they are able to ignore the fact others are there an photographic memorize the whole process so they could do it blind folded. The other 99% can’t and will never compete it as long as others are present. Believe me we have tried. I have attempted it over 100 times now to fail in the same exact spot because of the presence of others. If other people weren’t present I can almost guarantee you that in 100 tries I would succeed and feel I really accomplished something just like those who are finishing it. And they still would have felt that way if it was a solo instance in the first place. And I’m sure just about everyone complaining about it are having the same issue. No amount of tips, videos, and guides are going to help solve the problem for those 99%.

Jia Shen.4217:

All the people who are saying it is fine do so because they are able to ignore the fact others are there an photographic memorize the whole process so they could do it blind folded.

I haven’t done it yet, and I would like the event much, much less if I had to do this over and over again by myself.

XiaMae.9874:

Jia Shen.4217:

All the people who are saying it is fine do so because they are able to ignore the fact others are there an photographic memorize the whole process so they could do it blind folded.

I haven’t done it yet, and I would like the event much, much less if I had to do this over and over again by myself.

Which is why I said they could have made it a group or solo option. They could have done that one of two ways. Like a standard instance where who ever is in your group goes in. Or you pick the option from the npc or something like that. In that way the current random people put together in it stays for those wanting to do it with others. Again there is no problem with this and then everyone is happy. It doesn’t ruin the puzzle for those who like it how it is. And doesn’t reduce the challenge the puzzle offers to those who can’t deal with the grief from others being there. What I’m beginning to get really annoyed with is the leetist attitude in the game because of this puzzle. Because they are able to do it with others present doesn’t mean everyone else has to do it the same way or it somehow diminishes their achievement. Like I said before if it were a solo instance to begin with their feeling of achievement of it wouldn’t have changed.

Deified.7520:

Well this game is very casual

Some of the game is casual. The things that don’t take long. Like the storyline. Play 5 hours a week and get a legendary, then tell everyone it’s “very casual.”

it seems most of the casual players are just too bad at puzzles and come on the forums to complain about it not being easy.

What do you base this on? Nothing – it’s garbage. All types of players have been complaining about it for valid reasons, it has nothing to do with how often someone plays, or how good they are. It’s a flawed design. Holiday events should be simple, fun and enjoyable. The clocktower clearly ticks none of those to the majority of the community.

If it was easy, we wouldn’t get a free exotic.

I’ve gotten 3 exotics from the Mad Kings Labyrinth. It was extremely easy.

Bottom line: People that come on the forum to try and act supreme and whine about “whiners” should stop, it’s boring and you’re embarassing yourself by being so hypocritical.

Sdric.8526:

We got different definitions of fun.
For me challenges are fun.
Guess for most people who ever played SNES its is.
Ages ago when games weren’t easy as hell…
Finished it with 4 different characters already.
I love it

Kinda related to your post. I played Mario 64, and beat it and got 120 stars, blah blah. That was pretty hard to do. The tower, though, seems harder than Mario 64. I almost need a video game console controller to do it. Mario 64’s camera was pretty bad too, but GW2’s camera in this case is worse. I am just not good at turning the camera and jumping at the same time for this puzzle which is required to do precisely. Crap, I played Super Meat Boy and A+’ed every stage except for one in chapter 6 and a lot in chapter 7…THAT was easier than this, because I was able to do it. I just can’t do this at all. Tried on a human and tried on a norn, nope. I get to the part where you have to jump down to the gear with the chest on it (long fall) but the vortex is covering it so its game over. No, I am not asking that they change the difficulty of this…I just won’t do it. That’s just one achievement and some magic find boots that have no unique skin that I will be missing out on. No biggie. The other jumping puzzles are much more doable for me, so I’ll just do those. I may still try this one some the remaining days, but I prob will not succeed at it at all.

AGAIN, I AM NOT ASKING TO CHANGE THE DIFFICULTY. I mean the delay waiting for the rubble to come out of the wall is the main reason you have to rush, and if that delay got reduced, it may be doable by a higher % of people, but I’d prefer them to not change anything.

The Mad King Clock Tower is Amazing, thanks for it ! It is rare to find something in a game that gives you that adrenaline

in 3 words

I HATE IT

I’ve spent more than 12hours (in total), and can’t complete it. I know every inch of this map. Reward is nothing, some exotic shoes for nothing. The untested texture which teleport you to start when your jump was sucsesfull, bugged character animation, I do not want to speak about camera realization. Tonns of characters which try to make your life harder for fun (bringin a minions for example). Event must bring fun NOT ANGRY!! Learn to make a games and events from other games (as you can do it).

There is a fine line between fun and frustration an even finer line between challenge and chargrin, I love a challenge, I had so much fun even when dying in games back in the nes and snes days, jumping puzzles a plenty I did overcome.

Sadly in this case they have failed to make this fun enough to be worthwhile, this mini game is a waste of time and patience to me.

An Asura necromancer’s revenge (see attached).

I find it depressing and demoralizing. Not all all fun, which should be the point of a holiday event. Can rarely see anything because of the cluster of players in the way. The green moves up so fast you can’t even blink. Way to unforgiving for a speed event.

Trying to spot your asura in a crowd of norn and charr is not a challenge. It’s bad game design.

“OH, BUT NOT BEING ABLE TO SEE IS A FEATURE”. No, it isn’t.

The puzzle itself was pretty easy, more than 90% of the time the failures occur at the start, when there are 20 or so people blocking the view. But saying this is what makes it a challenge is idiocy.

I mean, norn characters suck at many of the jumping puzzles because in cramped spaces their camera messes up and they have trouble seeing where to go. No one ever said that was to make it more challenging, because of course it isn’t, its just bad game design, and this is nothing different.

Finished the Clocktower. Still say it’s a bad idea – it needs to either be year-round, or easier. The combination of a very high level of challenge and a time pressure to get it done before the event ends is what’s stressing people out.

I’ve never seen the logic behind people claiming that “too difficult” can never be a valid complaint. Clearly if it was so difficult that no one could ever finish it, it would be broken. If it was so difficult only one player ever finished it, it would be broken. If it was so difficult only 1% of the player base finished it, it would be broken (considering that I doubt that’s the design intention). So there’s a line – it’s possible for it to be so difficult that it’s broken. Where that line is is subjective. And people anecdotally saying they think it’s too difficult is the only way to determine the line.

I mean, Anet can determine it objectively, I guess. They presumably have stats on the number of attempts and the number of successes, and they can say, gee, we expected 75% of players to get it within 20 attempts, or something, but it’s more like 50% within 60 attempts, in which case it’s objectively broken because it doesn’t meet the design intention.

https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/halloween/Guide-Mad-King-s-Clock-Tower/562150

This tower isn’t as hard as most people believe, but it still requires a considerable (few hours) time investment.

I would love to see Arena Net’s analytics on this event. I’m sure they track how many attempts per player and how many successful tries and failures that player has had. I would be curious to see what the data says. In my opinion, if its less than 70% success, it’s broke. Makes me wonder. Fun really is subjective and how can an MMO cater to all members of their audience?

An Asura necromancer’s revenge (see attached).
Attachments:

AMAZING lol

I have nothing against the big caracters standing there. They dont ruin my field of view atleast. So I dont understand how you guys can have suck a huge problem with it?

And the time for this is fine! You have a lot of time to do this. Toning down the time of the green stuff will just make it way to easy in my opinion.

DemonNinja.1602:

I would love to see Arena Net’s analytics on this event. I’m sure they track how many attempts per player and how many successful tries and failures that player has had. I would be curious to see what the data says. In my opinion, if its less than 70% success, it’s broke. Makes me wonder. Fun really is subjective and how can an MMO cater to all members of their audience?

The simple answer is they can’t. If you’ve been reading the forums about the event in it’s entirety so far, you’ll see that someone always has something to complain about. Many players seem to have the attitude that a game shouldn’t have difficulty diversity, others are from an era where a core part of videogames was the difficulty, and others simply just want a free ride for one reason or another. Needless to say, each one of these mentalities is selfish in a way but that’s the nature of the beast. I don’t really see what the big deal is with just accepting you’re going to be 10 achievement points behind somebody else, nor do I understand why voluntarily sinking hours into a puzzle you hate (not you specifically) is somehow ANet’s fault.

An MMO is essentially a theme park, IMO, provided to you in the comfort of your own home. Sure, you paid your “submission fee” to get in and as such you deserve to be treated as a paying patron. I don’t feel that this gives people the right to dictate how a company designs it’s “rides” (in most cases, obviously there are exceptions) or what portion of their “patrons” they decide to cater to at any given time. Nobody goes to the Six Flags Halloween Event and then writes angry letters to Six Flags about how because of their heart condition or lack of courage they were unable to participate in every activity designed by the park.

Just saying, I think a lot of this community needs to put things in perspective and calm down. Stomping your feet about every little thing you dislike just makes you (again, not you specifically) childish and it’s hard to take someone like that seriously.

I really dislike the complaining over this. At the risk of sounding snobbish, I had a difficult time completing this puzzle, but I chugged through it. A friend finished it several times just for fun and to guide us through. As much as I raged at failing it over and over, I realize design like this is borderline genius – more games need difficulty like this in them. This is a challenge that is available to everybody, no matter how casual or hardcore, no matter your gear, it’s almost completely fair (trait speed bonuses probably not intended by design, but it can be finished without it.)

Complaining about this is just juvenile, silly, and shortsighted.

I was unable to complete the puzzle. But I still had fun trying, so I’m not complaining. I could never get past the section right after the disk comes into view. I tried watching videos, changing camera angles, watching others but I just couldn’t get the timing right to make it before the slime got me. I’ve never been very good at things that require quick timing; so I didn’t expect to finish it. I think it’s a good challenge though for all the people that love this kind of puzzle. I also never expect to do all the holiday events. Some I like .. some I don’t. That’s why ANET has to provide a wide variety of holiday content; so everyone can find something they really like doing.

Those of you who have finished the puzzle need to remember that you have great jumping skills and others don’t. (Gratz to Jihoko who can even do it with his inventory showing.) I agree that ANET should mark the clock tower as a challenge puzzle.

I did this on an Asura in about 1 hour. Was challenging, but I loved it.

Making it solo would take away from some of the fun. I loved watching people fall into the abyss, while you pull away and then you’re running by yourself.

One of the most fun things I’ve done in the game so far.

Keep up the good work ANet.

Haha indeed, one of the many fun of the puzzle is to see and hear the sound effects of people falling into the green while you’re still going strong or laugh even more because you got distracted by those and fell too.

Especially like it when the people who use speed buffs themselves just run straight across the platform and falling while I enjoy some free speed buffs.

Always funny to see someone complaining bc they can’t beat content. Good job arenanet, this jumping puzzle was my favorite.

This jumping puzzles are making me miss guild wars 1… you couldn’t jump and it was a good thing! I hate this puzzles.

I tried this puzzle can’t do it.
But at the moment i refuse to do it, and soon i will refuse to play this game as well, as in a rant against this game puzzles if they continue to be made as major event.

Why are there so many babies threatening to quit the game because they can’t do one optional content that isn’t even required for an achievement title and doesn’t give any amazing reward? It’s like babies have a different concept of what a “game” is supposed to be from the rest of us.

haha so fun loved doing the puzzle.
Can’t wait for more to come. Looking forward to other puzzles like this in the game.
Ty developers that’s some really cool work ty ty ty
Love this game

This post has been edited to remove a violation of the forum code of conduct.

The puzzle is very unique, memorable, and challenging. It’s a kitten design, and I would love it as a jumping puzzle.
However, the timing is stupid, not being able to see is stupid, and there’s so much junk to get in your way. In general, the way it’s implemented now, I don’t have the time to commit to trying to get a pair of worthless slippers or some nonsense that will take up my extremely limited bank space.

I look forward to halloween ending.

ykyk thanks for insulting me but thats your personal opinion, im not threating, its what i feel and i will.

If you don’t have fun doing a game, always failing, and you really hate it, wouldn’t you quit? seriosly?

Im here trying to give my feedback, so maybe arenanet changes it, if they don’t i have to change, for myself, this is a service, if i don’t like i go away, its my right.

And i have to disagree with you again, this puzzle haves amazing rewards, i wanted to do this with all my chars, but i can’t even do it once, i want the exotic boots for all of them, and i want at same time to have the achivement, which is all content locked for me, so either you consider it minor or not important, i consider it as a requirement, and its not acessible to all players.

Now you can say i can buy the boots from TP, yes, but that would be too costy, and again i would be favoring players that have jumping skills and do this jumping puzzle probably in less than 5 min and get an exotic.

I took several hard work weeks to get my gear, so i probably will do the same for my alts instead of agreeing with cheap tactics, but thats my opinion.
Im just saying who is “good” at this jumping puzzles got a major advantage over all other players non-pvp wise.

Arena net should consider another type of events, or at least possibilities, so players could get the same thingies without having to do a jumping puzzle, but not allow players to do both (otherwise they could just do both if they wanted), but just choose the way the want to play the game and get their FAIR rewards.

If you don’t have fun doing a game, always failing, and you really hate it, wouldn’t you quit? seriosly?

I know 2 people that have already, personally. Sad, but true.

I finished it, did it several more times.

I still think the JP was incredibly poorly designed.

I’ve watched a bunch of completion videos and they all had one thing in common which is that the camera doesn’t freak out on them like it does on me.

I’ve lost count how many times I’ve completed it now, I’m actually slightly addicted to it.

DemonNinja.1602:

-Snipped OP post

Your first point is incredibly subjective. I thought it was really fun and I see no reason for them to make it easier. I completed it on my human after about an hour, I then completed it on my human for a second time on my second attempt after that, just because I wanted to keep doing it.

And in the words of Josh Foreman, who designed the level. “I only expected about 5% of players to complete this jumping puzzle, I didn’t think there’d be a success video on the first day”.

For your second point, a lot of MMOs are hated because they’re catered to casuals with no difficulty to them whatsoever, see World of Warcraft, which lost about half a million subs after cata, with some people, such as Totalbiscuit, stating that they quit because it was becoming extremely casual and unfun.

Also, no special events do not need to be lighthearted. You don’t have to do all of the Halloween events, and i’m pretty sure they’re intended so that the core players get all of the achievements. If you don’t want to put time into a jumping puzzle then don’t do it. You don’t even lose anything important by not doing it.

Finally, there’s only two pause points in the entire jumping puzzle, and one of them is quite hard to get to if you don’t jump quickly.

The only argument of yours that I agree with is the grouping in the instances. It would be a lot nicer to have groups of 5 or less for the jumping puzzle. The current grouping size makes it quite difficult near the start (people generally fall off at the start, no one succeeds on the first try.

I like jumping puzzles, even the really hard ones. I am not a huge fan of a timed one because as we have seen there are factors that make it more difficult. If you have video latency or are a smaller model the presence of larger ones impact the stability of the camera.

I’ve been at it for 12 hours. Or maybe, I should say 4, because there’s so much wait time. At least 20s everytime you start it.
Plus wait time for as long as it takes everybody to fail after you.
Admittedly, I’m not very good at this, but what really annoys the heck out of me is, that there’s no way to practice it.
I’m really determined to do this, I will finish it.
And I will do it on the current difficulty level, that’s not a problem, I know it’s doable, I even know it’s doable for me.
But it’s still one of the most annoying things ever, because two thirds of my time are spent waiting.
I have no problem with practicing it, but since there’s no way to efficiently do this, this is stupid.

I once landed in an empty overflow (that was after about 7 hours) and it was actually fun again.
But due to Server update, i couldn’t stay there.
So – It’s fun as long as you are ALONE and don’t have to WAIT.
Difficulty is fine by me, but let me practice, without wasting hours and hours waiting for the next opportunity to do so.

I also feel like this event was not fun. It was 10 minutes past “hmm let’s see if this fun” to 5 minutes of “not fun at all” to 5 minutes of “really?” before I left. I gave up after about 20 minutes of not having fun, as I’m no masochist. My biggest complaint is not being able to see where my character was in relation to the terrain due to all of the surrounding people.

Either its just me, which doesn’t appear so judging by these posts, or clearly some sadist developers/designers are just sitting there laughing at us. I also understand that a few people are able to do this no problem and make it more challenging for themselves, but they are clearly not the majority. To me, this event goes into the same category as traps in dungeons. Annoying and irritating is not the same as challenging.

I absolutely hate this puzzle and the fact that it is an acheivement so if I want to complete my achievements list for the event, I HAVE to do it. =( Because of this, I have spent 10 very miserable hours this weekend trying and failing over and over and over again.

And because of this puzzle and the fact that I have to STOP trying because I am now experiencing extremely high blood pressure that my medication no longer seems to be controlling, I will not be able to finish all the items for this event.

I have been looking forward to this event for weeks now, since I loved the events from GW. Unfortunately, the whole event, and my weekend, is completely ruined now.

If this puzzle were programmed to allow the option of completing a slower version of the puzzle for people who had spent x in-game hours attempting it, where x fell somewhere between 2 and 12, it would be helpful.

This kind of puzzle should not be included in a limited time event. Leaving it in game so people could attempt it a few times daily until they suceeded rather than having to cram all their attempts into one weekend would also make the event somewhat more enjoyable for those who either have mild physical disabilities or slower reflexes.

I applaud those people who suceeded at the puzzle. Very well done. I wish I had the ability to follow in your footsteps. Since I cannot, I am extremely bitter and unhappy at the very unpleasant event I am experiencing.
=(

I just want to add that being pretty intoxicated has not prevented me from logging in and doing this in one try again on my asura.

So stick with it, everyone! You’ll get it eventually.

I’ve done the clock tower like five times within an hour today. The only complaint I have is that charr can’t stop walking on all fours while doing it. You can’t take out your weapon, because it doesn’t exist, so the charr character goes into a strange animation that is a hybrid between walking on all fours and walking on two legs. I found the clock tower to be a fun, optional, thing to do.

The clock tower is fun actually, but since it is a timed puzzle, it makes it incredibly frustrating. The mist is a little too fast for the majority of the players to keep up.

And some people here that keep saying that the tower shouldn’t be patched to make it easier, I agree to an extent. You don’t want to make it to easy but you don’t want to keep it so hard as it is right now.

All they need to do is slow down that mist, because it will make a world of a difference when you’re trying to position yourself for that next jump, that way people are not rushing it and fall over and over again.

Yeah I won’t attempt it. I already tried my luck at the one over the cauldron. But after a few trys all of that spinning is killing me “motion sick”. But it looks really cool.

I did the clock tower 5 hours straight non-stop since the patch of Act 2…no rest, just persistence. Was it really challenging? yes. Was it fun? yes. Problem? making new mistakes every time while learning the path on the way.

For someone like me, there is absolutely nothing fun about this. I’ve attempted this event well over a hundred times. It’s not even a ‘puzzle’, it’s a timed, frustrating gauntlet.

I don’t have a high end computer. In fact, in terms of technology, my system is ancient. I run on the absolute lowest settings, including subsample models, at 720p and I still have frame rate issues. For someone in my situation I can’t react quickly enough so matter what I do to actually complete the puzzle. And I’m timed. I’m not even allowed to figure out what I’m doing.

I get that some people find this to be the easiest thing in the world, and I respect that. I’m just legitimately pissed that I’m about to miss out on the Emissary of the Mad King achievement because of one event.

/rant.

EDIT: Oh, and the wait times are what make this really unbearable.

The jump puzzle does not count towards the Emissary of the Mad King title. Neither does pumpkin carving.